PDA

View Full Version : Difference in string gauges in relation to weight.


Pro_Tour_630
10-19-2006, 09:34 AM
I dont know why I am doing this since I already know that there is a difference in actual measured weight in grams between tennis strings that have different gauges. I would like to hear from you. This thread is about actual measured differences. Please do not come in here and say it is not practical blah blah. We are not discussing practicality here, or if it so minute in your opinion that is does not matter? or if it is not normal for a player to switch from 15g 1.40mm to a 19g 1.05mm.

I have done an experiment in the past with known MRT's on this board and we have proven that EVEN two identical gauge strings have different weight by at least two grams (I feel it is more like 3grams) when one string is Polyester and the other is just a normal synthetic let alone two strings that have extreme gauge differences.

Take two identical specd racquet. String one with a thin 1.10mm string and weight the racquet then string the second with a 1.35mm string and weight the racquet. If you do not want to bother with this experiment, justweigh 40 feet of a 15g set of colied string and a 18g set of coiled string. They do not have the same weight and the weight differences will be even more if the composition of the two strings were different, lets say a thick POLy vs a thin synthetic.

Exterem difference in tension as well will alter the weight but that is another subject.

alan-n
10-19-2006, 09:45 AM
The bottom line for me is, even 15 grams won't matter with a decent warm up.. you know why?

Simply because playing conditions, ball conditions and opponent make a bigger difference than a few grams of weight. If a few grams of weight is bothering anyone than likely they don't have the strength or conditioning to handle a few sets anyways.

Pro_Tour_630
10-19-2006, 11:14 AM
The bottom line for me is, even 15 grams won't matter with a decent warm up.. you know why?

Simply because playing conditions, ball conditions and opponent make a bigger difference than a few grams of weight. If a few grams of weight is bothering anyone than likely they don't have the strength or conditioning to handle a few sets anyways.

all your conditions are fine, but this is not what this thread is about. Hey if 15 grams does not make a difference to you that is fine but it does to some people. 15grams extra on the hoop does alter the SW and balance throwing your timing off a bit. If you have one racquet that is 315grams with 31cm balance and the second is 330g with 32cm balance. These two sticks are not going to swing/feel the same. The point of all of this is we are trying to match two identical racquets and believe it or not string gauge and type of string is taken into consideration.

NoBadMojo
10-19-2006, 11:37 AM
There is something about the additional weight of strings distributed over the entire face of a frame which is very NOTICEABLE for me in certain strings. You can feel the swingweight increase and the balance go to less headlight. I dont go by measurements, choosing instead to go by feel. Cant say that I notice the difference by gauge, but I am always using 17.
This is very noticeable when going from say a multi to a poly. I notice gut strings in general are heavier, and I would love to play the Armourpro string in my DNX9's but I dont like what it does to the balance and swingweight of my frames..I may try it again in the one frame I have which is .1 oz lighter and ever so slightly more headlight.

alan-n
10-19-2006, 11:37 AM
Anyone who is that sensitive to string and gauges would be carrying 10 identical racquets with a tournament paycheck.

I don't see how 2 grams is going to make the difference between hitting the ball on the line or missing it.

Pro_Tour_630
10-19-2006, 12:18 PM
alan I see you are now talking 2grams instead of 15grams difference as you claimed earlier. You are missing the point, we are not talking about playing professionals, paychecks, 10 sticks in our bags, ball condition, where we need to worry about how we play blah blah. We are just trying to match two sticks to be as identical as possible (even if it just for fun) where all esle being equal except extreme string guage and or type. Is there a measured difference???? thats all. If I feel the difference and you dont that is irrelivant. Same goes to tension, if you can not feel the difference between 60lbs and 50lbs strung racquet is not the point, or if I can feel it. The point in this case for example is that a ball bounces different on a 50lb string than on a 60lbs string. Same goes to weight, balance and SW in regards to difference in gauge/type/tension. They can be measured and are different.


NBMJO, when going from a multi to a poly of equal gauge there is a difference of about 3 grams at least IMO on an MP 18X20, the smaller the head size with less mains and crosses the lower the difference, the larger the head size with more mains and crosses the larger the difference. Can you imagine what the difference would be like on an OS when going from lets say a 15g poly to a 19g multi??????? even if it is not normal or practical?


here are some older threads sorry to open old battle wounds

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=178073#post178073

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=23869

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=23938

psp2
10-19-2006, 12:31 PM
Different guages of same string will weigh differently.
Different strings with same guage will weigh differently.
Different lengths of same guage and same string will weigh differently (duhhhh).

What's the point in dissecting these facts to death?

Pro_Tour_630
10-19-2006, 12:34 PM
This thread is about actual measured differences. Please do not come in here and say it is not practical blah blah. We are not discussing practicality here, or if it so minute in your opinion that is does not matter?

Alan, I respect your opinion but please read my original thread, if you want to poison the well that is fine.

to all, I do not want to hear that we should worry about our form to play well blah blah etc..., please do this in anothe thread there is another section for that. If you have actual measurements please post them.

Pro_Tour_630
10-19-2006, 12:43 PM
What's the point in dissecting these facts to death?

Because some feel that it is only "theory" and not facts. Because when some customize their sticks and want to make them as close as possible to one another they simple ommit/overlook the very obvious and disregard these simple facts. But you are right these facts have been beaten to death but we need to bring them up to newbies on the boards who are trying to customize and match their sticks. If you like start with post # 185 and read my posts and our DEBUTANTE Andrew http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=123998&page=13 I would like your comment on this topic though.



For all you lead tape junkies, 1 gram is equal to one inch, so if there is a difference of lets say 10 grams that is equal to 10 inches of lead tape. IF you do not think 10 inches of lead tape on your hoop makes a difference then that is fine, you 2X4 slugger you

NoBadMojo
10-19-2006, 02:18 PM
NBMJO, when going from a multi to a poly of equal gauge there is a difference of about 3 grams at least IMO on an MP 18X20, the smaller the head size with less mains and crosses the lower the difference, the larger the head size with more mains and crosses the larger the difference. Can you imagine what the difference would be like on an OS when going from lets say a 15g poly to a 19g multi??????? even if it is not normal or practical?



Like I said, I dont go by the what the scales say..i go by feel, and there is something about the additional weight spread over the entire stringbed that seems to have more of a marked effect than if you were to concentrate the weight in one place.

Example: I cant notice any difference at all in the swingweight of any of my frames with or without the Fischer Vibrastop dampeners I use... also the dampener is located more closely to the balance point

Pro_Tour_630
10-19-2006, 03:54 PM
Like I said, I dont go by the what the scales say..i go by feel, and there is something about the additional weight spread over the entire stringbed that seems to have more of a marked effect than if you were to concentrate the weight in one place.

That is correct, you are extra sensitive, you go by feel and you can feel the difference of 3 grams spread out entirely throughout the frame, it is sad that some newbies or skateboard sluggers would want us to dismiss that fact.

You know who can feel the difference? players that have sore arms. They are the ones that can really feel the difference, maybe even more that ATP players. If you are a healthy 18 year old slugger whic is swinging a 400g plus stick with POLY who is above 5.0, chances are that you will not feel nor care.

Pro_Tour_630
10-19-2006, 04:11 PM
these are measurements of strings:

1.Wilson Hamertec 18g 1.15mm =14grams

2.Gamma synthetic gut 17g 1.25mm =18grams

3.Luxilon ALU 16L 1.25mm =20grams

4.Luxilon Big Banger 1.30mm =22grams

5. TNT 18g 1.17mm=16grams

6. Gosen 18g 1.15mm=16grams

7. signum Poly Pro Plasma 17L 1.18mm= 23grams

8. ISO speed PYramid 23grams

9. Luxilon monotec 18g 1.15mm=18grams


*note the difference of weight only between TNT 18g 1.17mm and Signum PPP 1.18mm which are suppose to be equal in gauge: it is 7 grams, add the stretching factor while stringing and you will get 8grams at least spread all over a string bed.

*note the difference of monotec 1.15mm and hammertec 1.15mm it is 4 grams, add the stretching factor and you will get 5 gram difference spread entirely on the hoop of a frame.

Please anyone with 15g string step up to the plate and give me your measurments, I dont have that stuff laying around anymore, I bet it is in the upwards of 25plus grams and for a 15g POLY I am guessing close to 40grams.

If anyone can not tell the difference between a 14gram string and a 40 gram string which is almost 25gram difference and equal to 25 inches of lead tape around the hoop, I would like to know. That is almost equivelent to a full ounce

LoveThisGame
10-19-2006, 06:59 PM
Michael,

Are the measurements for 40'?

Pro_Tour_630
10-19-2006, 07:14 PM
Michael,

Are the measurements for 40'?

yes they are, sometimes you are left with few feet of string on each side when finished stringing sometimes more than few feet which is why resilience/elasticity and tension if also a factor.

Below are just a few links, Anyone please let me know if you find more info:

talks about gauge and tension, nice thread indeed, thanks aussi, PSP2, vlajean,SW stinger

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=124690&highlight=gauge

nice Kevo

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=110578&highlight=gauge

thank you midlife crisis

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=96593&highlight=gauge

someone looking for heavy string? I wounder why?

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=96917&highlight=gauge

byealmeens
10-23-2006, 12:31 PM
Michael,

At our local pro shop, a club player brought in two identical frames customized by the shop. He had always used 18ga Gosen Micro, but a friend strung the other with 17ga poly. The pro shop weighed the frame with the new string job and measured the swingweight. The difference was 4 grams and the SW changed from 328 to 337. I believe many think that because a gram of static weight is insignificant, that a gram added to your frame is as well. However, a couple grams added to a frame in the hoop is VERY noticeable, due to the change in SW. For those that think 15 grams is insignificant, try adding 15 grams of lead to the upper hoop of your frame. I'm willing to bet you'll notice the difference....

Ripper
10-23-2006, 12:46 PM
So, which are the 5 lightest polys?

nikolaih
10-23-2006, 02:26 PM
So, which are the 5 lightest polys?

Very curious about this myself. Actually I find the whole topic of stringweights interesting.

mucat
10-23-2006, 02:37 PM
I just bought a stringer and I think the free string came with it are a lot heavier than what I have before. The weight distribution and overall weight of the racket is very noticeably more HH and heavier than before. And I am not that particular about string.

I think it affects how tight I have to hold my racket and probably other thing I cannot think of right now (mind frozen from work).

Midlife crisis
10-23-2006, 03:45 PM
So, which are the 5 lightest polys?

Probably the five that come in the thinnest gauges.

Ripper
10-24-2006, 09:05 AM
Probably the five that come in the thinnest gauges.

Not what the O.P. is saying.

Rabbit
10-24-2006, 09:38 AM
Thank God I play with Volkl PowerFibre now...







I still can't tell any difference in balance... :)

Pro_Tour_630
10-24-2006, 01:16 PM
Probably the five that come in the thinnest gauges.

not sure if this is the case since some "thin" Polys are heavier than other thin Poly (or which has more metalic in them?!) I would give an example of SPPP 1.18mm which is 23grams vs ALU 1.25mm which is 20grams

I still can't tell any difference in balance...

powerfibre is on the "light" side and I am glad you are playing with a soft ligther string than those "evil" Polys I have been talking about so you can enjoy tennis for a long time with less chance of having an injury.

Agassi never won a major after he switched strings, and I know it had more to do with Federer and his back than his set up but I would have taken Romans advice who told him now is not the time to switch strings. read all the way to the bottom

http://www.tennis.com/yourgame/gear/general/general.aspx?id=45730

I think Roman knows more about strings/setup/customize than Agassi. I also know that sensitive players do not switch anything that easily see Sampras. Before and after they finish their career, they talk and contemplate about oh the what if's. What if Sampras played with a larger head size at the french? Agassi at one point thought about an MP rather than an OS at the US open. Do you think Agassi will ever think Oh what if I did not switch to a heavier full Poly string? Just a thought? He had wrist injury as well during the tail end of his career. Do you think a full Poly had something to do with it? I dont know but my guess is maybe or somewhat probably than no way never.

Midlife crisis
10-24-2006, 01:18 PM
Not what the O.P. is saying.

Well, that'll teach me to not read the whole thread. . . :mrgreen:

Anyhow, I'd bet that there are inconsequential differences in weight among the various brands, as long as they are sized according to their published diameters. I know that for metal dies, they will wear as more and more extrusions are performed and so the pieces they make will get heavier and heavier. I don't know if the polyester extrusion process wears a die to any significant degree.

There may be differences in the type of "polyester" used by the various manufacturers, but typically one or another of these will have properties that are good for use in a tennis string, while other variants won't. Even if these are made with additional ingredients to alter the characteristics of the base material, their percentages aren't likely to be too high and so the strings will basically weigh the same.

It sounds good, at least to me, and that's usually a sign that it's totally wrong. . .

LoveThisGame
10-24-2006, 07:04 PM
Just because a string specifies that it is a certain mm diameter does not mean that that is precisely the diameter over it's length. There is mfg. variability as I've always understood.

Odd, too, that this was brought up TODAY in a phone conversation I had with a racquet company tech!

Pro_Tour_630
10-24-2006, 07:30 PM
Just because a string specifies that it is a certain mm diameter does not mean that that is precisely the diameter over it's length. There is mfg. variability as I've always understood.

Odd, too, that this was brought up TODAY in a phone conversation I had with a racquet company tech!

I have a digital calliper and most of the time the mm are correct what is not correct is the vauge reference to gauge ie 18g 17L etc... discrepancies in mm usually happen more with natural gut

wksoh
05-29-2007, 04:38 AM
Yes... I'm very sensitive to the weight difference caused by different gauge strings.

I'm always find thick strings feels more powerful than thin strings... but most of the string description says thinner is more powerful and playable.

I always felt like adding weights whenever I use thin strings..

tlm
05-29-2007, 03:14 PM
nbmj is correct you can definitely feel the difference in the racquet if you use a new string+ it weighs more than what you are use to.