Replay point?

[kevhen]

I am returning in doubles and the guy hits a serve that goes wide but I can't quite tell if it is in or out but suspect it is a little bit wide (like an inch or so) but I play the return anyway and my partner isn't sure either so we play on.

The server moves in and hits hits a volley inside the service line so he was charging hard and playing the ball but his volley goes off his frame and into the net.

We celebrate the point but now he is back at the baseline ready to serve a second serve to me. To avoid arguing since we are up 4-2 and will likely win the set and are playing for fun, we let him have the second serve and I return to his partner who hits a volley winner to end the game. But we go on to win 6-3.

Do you guys ever have people make you win the point twice by making calls for you on your side?

[mucat]

What the...? Once he hit the ball you returned, he cannot call 2nd serve. That's cheating to the N th degree!! :mad:

[Nuke]

The server cannot rule his serve out. That's the receiver's call, and since you didn't call it, the first serve was good.

[mucat]

And the server cannot call his own 1st serve out anyway. But that's not the point. The point is, he is cheating!!!! :mad:

[kevhen]

He emailed me back (since we do get along otherwise) and said he half-heartedly played the ball since he thought it was so far wide that it was obvious but it was only 2-3 inches wide at the widest and I couldn't see a crack from the angle I was at so I wasn't sure and just played it. He has the tendency to call close balls out on his side that I sometimes shake my head at but otherwise is a good competitor.

[mucat]

He emailed me back (since we do get along otherwise) and said he half-heartedly played the ball since he thought it was so far wide that it was obvious but it was only 2-3 inches wide at the widest and I couldn't see a crack from the angle I was at so I wasn't sure and just played it. He has the tendency to call close balls out on his side that I sometimes shake my head at but otherwise is a good competitor.

Sometimes I thought my serve was out and I thought my opponent saw it too but somehow he returned my serve and I didn't concentrate and hit bad shot. After the point end, I would ask if my serve was out, my partner would say "I didn't see it out", and sometimes he would even say "you want to replay the point?". I always said no, because he didn't call it, I have to play it, it is the rule and it is rule, every player should follow the rules.

[tennis-n-sc]

Kev, I'm not a 100% sure on this, but I can't think of provision a point is replayed. You were, in my mind, absolutely correct. If you aren't sure a ball is out, it is good and you played it good faith. The server should have responded accordingly. Sounds like he knows this but can't quite admit it.

[VGP]

Rules of thumb:

Play until an out call is made.

The receiver makes the call (for the most part).

[kevhen]

He does have a tendency to hook calls and challenge his opponent on close out calls that they have made. He does like to intimidate and I have talked with him about this in the past. He has played most of his tennis at the club in doubles leagues in a very competitive environment where his only goal was to win matches and not necessarily make friends.

I get along with him since he is very competitive, crafty, despite the occasional hooked calls, and I still beat him like 6-2 in singles (he is 4.0 rated) so his calls don't usually affect the outcome for me. We played pretty good doubles together this summer in tournaments as he always pushes me to be my best and not let up at all. He told me I was way too generous on calls when I first started playing with him and he said that is pretty rare to find.

[VGP]

He sounds like a true byproduct of his attitude.....

[Geezer Guy]

You were right. He was wrong.

The Server can NOT call a First Serve out.
The Server CAN call a Second Serve out.

The only time a point is replayed is for a Let, and there was no Let here.

[Cindysphinx]

You were right. He was wrong.

The Server can NOT call a First Serve out.
The Server CAN call a Second Serve out.

The only time a point is replayed is for a Let, and there was no Let here.
Well . . .

I'm not so sure about that.

Say I am about to play my opponent's ball, which bounces on the outside of the line. I call the ball "out" while sending a strong return to the proper court. I immediately realize my error. I can stop play and we will play a let, so long as I returned the ball to the proper court and it was not a weak sitter.

Anyway, the only time I will cut my opponent a break is if they claim they thought they heard me call the ball out. If there are six courts in a tennis facility, it is hard to hear calls. If an opponent swears they heard an "out" call, I might take them at their word and play a let. I will be reluctant to cut them a break if it is a real match rather than a social match.

I remember playing a match once and hitting a deep lob. One of the opponents said "bounce it." I heard this as "out," stopped playing, turned my back and began walking back to the baseline, only to have a ball whiz by my ear. My opponents played a let, although the rules would have allowed them to claim the point.

[drakulie]

Kev, I'm not a 100% sure on this, but I can't think of provision a point is replayed. You were, in my mind, absolutely correct. If you aren't sure a ball is out, it is good and you played it good faith. The server should have responded accordingly. Sounds like he knows this but can't quite admit it.

Completely agree.

[kevhen]

He does have a bad reputation at the club and some guys don't want to play with or against him.

I am hoping to get him on the right track and usually confront him about stuff like this. I didn't confront him initially but emailed him today so he knows what I think. He plays in my group of friends so I don't have to invite him back and I think he knows if he screws us on too many calls he won't be invited back. It's usually only a couple bad calls per match and I usually overlook them although when I see a ball land square on a line that he calls out, I will stop and make sure he knows that I saw it was good.

[Cindysphinx]

He does have a bad reputation at the club and some guys don't want to play with or against him.


Sounds like marriage material to me! :swoon:

[OrangeOne]

Well . . .

I'm not so sure about that.

Say I am about to play my opponent's ball, which bounces on the outside of the line. I call the ball "out" while sending a strong return to the proper court. I immediately realize my error. I can stop play and we will play a let, so long as I returned the ball to the proper court and it was not a weak sitter.

Umm, err, there is no facility for a point to be replayed in the rules of tennis, based completely on a call....at least from my understanding. CS - what you describe above may well be the etiquette you play under, but it's not according to the rules. It's too hard to judge what's a 'weak sitter' or not, etc etc. If you stuffed the call - and you correctly admit that - it's your opponent's point. I'd be quite displeased, I have to say, if in that scenario in a comp match I wasn't given the point....

Anyway, the only time I will cut my opponent a break is if they claim they thought they heard me call the ball out. If there are six courts in a tennis facility, it is hard to hear calls. If an opponent swears they heard an "out" call, I might take them at their word and play a let. I will be reluctant to cut them a break if it is a real match rather than a social match.


Hmm - a tough one, sounds like a valid let scenario. But as you say, hard to know for sure. Good grounds to *always* play the ball until you're *absolutely* sure of the call.

I remember playing a match once and hitting a deep lob. One of the opponents said "bounce it." I heard this as "out," stopped playing, turned my back and began walking back to the baseline, only to have a ball whiz by my ear. My opponents played a let, although the rules would have allowed them to claim the point.

Correct, but that interpretation sounds rather fair.

[psp2]

Umm, err, there is no facility for a point to be replayed in the rules of tennis, based completely on a call....at least from my understanding. CS - what you describe above may well be the etiquette you play under, but it's not according to the rules. It's too hard to judge what's a 'weak sitter' or not, etc etc. If you stuffed the call - and you correctly admit that - it's your opponent's point. I'd be quite displeased, I have to say, if in that scenario in a comp match I wasn't given the point....


Actually, the Code stipulates this scenario. CS's post is correct.

12. Out calls corrected. If a player mistakenly calls a ball “out” and then
realizes it was good, the point shall be replayed if the player returned the ball
within the proper court. Nonetheless, if the player’s return of the ball results
in a “weak sitter,” the player should give the opponent the point. If the player
failed to make the return, the opponent wins the point. If the mistake was
made on the second serve, the server is entitled to two serves.

[ucd_ace]

Yeah, I would replay the point. If I feel like I missed a call or my opponent missed the call then I'll always replay the point or expect them to let me replay the point if I think it effected how I played my next shot. Technically, the server can only call his first serve out, but I understand that I play a lot of close serves in as to avoid controversy over calls and that if my opponent thinks his serve is out and doesn't hit a regular ball on the next shot I think the point should be played as if the serve was out. I always hit the ball if my opponent returns the ball when it's out if I'm serving and volleying. You don't get much practice volleying off real returns, and most people who serve and volley always take those balls as practice shots. So, it's hard to say if your opponent took the shot seriously or not regardless of how he approached it.

[Cindysphinx]

Technically, the server can only call his first serve out,



No. Really. The server cannot call his own first serve out, ever. Period.

The receiving team may be giving the benefit of the doubt, so the code is explicit that the server cannot call his own first serve out.

Player calls own shots out. With the exception of the first serve, a
player should call against himself or herself any ball the player clearly sees
out regardless of whether requested to do so by the opponent. The prime
objective in making calls is accuracy. All players should cooperate to attain
this objective.

and

Service calls by serving team. Neither the Server nor Server’s partner
shall make a fault call on the first service even if they think it is out
because the Receiver may be giving the Server the benefit of the doubt. But
the Server and the Server’s partner shall call out any second serve that either
clearly sees out.

[OrangeOne]

Actually, the Code stipulates this scenario. CS's post is correct.

12. Out calls corrected. If a player mistakenly calls a ball “out” and then
realizes it was good, the point shall be replayed if the player returned the ball
within the proper court. Nonetheless, if the player’s return of the ball results
in a “weak sitter,” the player should give the opponent the point. If the player
failed to make the return, the opponent wins the point. If the mistake was
made on the second serve, the server is entitled to two serves.

My bad - always happy to admit if I'm wrong :). I need to go re-read the rules. I must say - I hate the fact that it gets as subjective as a 'weak-sitter' though, that's just terrible.

Now - a question - in that scenario, if I stuffed the call, I'd give my opponent the point I think. Am I completely contravening the rules there? I should go read them to check...

[FiveO]

The issue is addressed directly by the Code in 26 and 28:

26. Service calls by serving team. Neither the Server nor Server's partner shall make a fault call on the first service even if they think it is out because the Receiver may be giving the Server the benefit of the doubt. But the Server and the Server's partner shall call out any second serve that either clearly sees out.

28. Obvious faults. A player shall not put into play or hit over the net an obvious fault. To do so constitutes rudeness and may even be a form of gamesmanship. On the other hand, if a player does not call a serve a fault and gives the opponent the benefit of a close call, the Server is not entitled to replay the point.

[OrangeOne]

The issue is addressed directly by the Code in 26 and 28:

Sorry FiveO, I don't see those rules answering my Q or the original Q? I'm not trying to be rude here, I just don't see the relationship....

[FiveO]

Sorry FiveO, I don't see those rules answering my Q or the original Q? I'm not trying to be rude here, I just don't see the relationship....

The third sentence of 28. doesn't address kehven's OP?

[OrangeOne]

The third sentence of 28. doesn't address kehven's the OP?

Sorry (again) FiveO - I get it now. For some reason I'd transposed the Q in Cindy's post (that I'd been replying to) with the Q in the Original Post.

Some days one should just not get out of bed :)

[FiveO]

Sorry (again) FiveO - I get it now. For some reason I'd transposed the Q in Cindy's post (that I'd been replying to) with the Q in the Original Post.

Some days one should just not get out of bed :)

No worries mate, I'm a little under the weather tonight myself.;)

[Geezer Guy]

Well . . .

I'm not so sure about that.

Say I am about to play my opponent's ball, which bounces on the outside of the line. I call the ball "out" while sending a strong return to the proper court. I immediately realize my error. I can stop play and we will play a let, so long as I returned the ball to the proper court and it was not a weak sitter. ...

You're right - my bad.