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View Full Version : ~$450 to spend, help w/initial list, please?


Redflea
10-31-2006, 08:55 PM
I've done some basic research in this forum, and was hoping for some help to get me to the next phase of my search...

If I was looking for:

- 6 pt mounting
- Fixed clamps
- Crank or drop weight...(prefer crank)
- Up to about $400

Would it be possible to get a machine that fits above that is good quality at that price point? I'm OK w/used, and am not in a rush so I can wait to find it for sale on auction sites if they come up occassionally...

I am not doing this to save money...I won/t be doing any stringing for $, and my own stringing volume for my family will be pretty low...this is strictly so that I can play w/different setups on my and my son's racquets w/out having to go through the local shops - basically want more flexibility/speed on string changes.

So...any advice is appreciated. I can do more research once I have a few names, but am having trouble getting an initial list going....

BTW...I expect I might hear a few "If you just spend a little more..." suggestions. :) I really don't want to increase my budget any more than above...this is a purely frivolous/fun spend for me, and $400 of frivolity in this one area is enough...and spending less than $400 is fine too, of course. I'm not buying for prestige...no one in my family is going to be impressed either way. ;)

Thanks for any help!

theace21
10-31-2006, 09:21 PM
You have a good idea what you want and budget. If you are going to spend that much I would really get a crank. As you figured out, the cranks are going to send you closer to 600...

You might take a look at the Pioneer DC Plus from Alpha. It has all the features you asked about, and it is under 400 (ok, 399)...

LttlElvis
10-31-2006, 10:23 PM
If you are willing to try an Eagnas, this is a pretty good one @ $400.

http://www.eagnas.com/flex940.html

varuscelli
10-31-2006, 10:37 PM
If they ever get them in stock, you might consider one of these drop-weight stringing machines from LaserFibre:

The MS200TT-ECO configuration
$399 with flying clamps. Limited upgradeability
$449 100% upgradeable to fixed clamps and Premium version

Prices on these go all the way up to $929, but from what I understand you can start with the lower price range models and if you want to upgrade you can do so (slowly and as you see fit, if desirable to you in the long run).

http://www.laserfibre.com/MS200_ECO.html

andrew_b
11-01-2006, 10:12 AM
Ok, I'm sure I'll be flamed, but here goes.



In the price range you've set, I'd go with a drop weight over a crank. Why? While a crank may be faster, a drop weight is the closest you'll get to a high-end constant-pull device. I'm not including the Laserfibre in this, as it's unique design makes it truly a constant-pull.

You may have read about the difficulty in use or the variety in tensions because you need to get a drop-weight's arm level. However, basic math shows that the degree of accuracy is not really an issue. THIS POST (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=175547&postcount=8)has a table showing the differing % values as you vary from "true" horizontal. In a nutshell, if you can get the arm within 10 degrees of horizontal, you'll be within 98.5% of the true reference tension. 5 degrees, you're within 99.6% of reference. This translates to around 3" off level for 98.5% accuracy, and 1.5" off for 99.6%. The real benefit is the fact that the machine will provide constant pull. Quality drop weight machines provide consistently tighter stringbeds closer to the reference tension. Low-cost electronics (in the $1000 range) typically will re-pull a string when the device senses a loss of 2-4 pounds. Higher end machines lower that to as little as .5 pounds. A drop weight pulls constantly. Ask most experienced stringers, and they will say that to match a reference tension of a dropweight, they'll increase the tension if using a crank.

Downside? It is a bit slower. But you already said you're not stringing frames all day, is it really an issue if it takes you an forty five minutes to an hour to string a frame, compared to 30 minutes? And, FWIW, you can get pretty fast with a good dropweight with practice.

Another benefit of a dropweight is that they need little to no maintenance, and they will maintain accuracy over time (cranks and electronics need to be periodically calibrated).

In your selection, I'd say to focus on the following:

- Sturdy stringing table. Any flex in the table results in inaccuracy or even frame damage.

- fixed clamps - you already identified this one, and good fixed clamps will make getting consistent results easier.

- solid frame mounting - 6 point is nice, but there are other solutions that also work work well. Key is that the mounting system hold the frame/hoop in such a way that it doesn't deform (for instance, the Laserfibre/Stringway solution is sort of a hybrid 5-point system. It has a center post at the top, with two inside supports a few inches away on either side, and 2 supports at the bottom).

- customer service - can you get in touch with support? Are they helpful? Personally, I think this is an important consideration with a purchase like this.

I'll recommend Gamma, simply because I've owned one one of their Progression 200 dropweights for over 10 years and it's performed flawlessly. In addition, any time I've had a question, I've gotten great support. I'd look at the Gamma Progression II 602FC, or the X-6FC. The Laserfibre looks very cool, and I'm actually thinking about one, but there seems to be a bit of distribution delay with them right now (besides, with fixed clamps I think it's out of you price range).

Besides a Laserfibre, unless I was buying a high-end electronic (Babolat, etc) I think I'd stick with a good drop weight. But I'm not stringing for money or speed.



play well,
Andrew

BstonBruin
11-01-2006, 10:17 AM
Eagnas Flex 840

TonyB
11-01-2006, 02:52 PM
If I were in your shoes, I think I would get the Alpha Pioneer DC Plus. I think it's around $380 less shipping. I looked for exactly what you're looking for, but my budget was smaller, so I chose the Mutual Power Hercules 610.

I am very pleased with the 610, but I am GUESSING that the quality on the Alpha DC Plus is a little bit higher. So if you have the money, I would go with the Alpha. Or let me just say that you can't go wrong with the Alpha.

If you want to save some money, you could go with the Mutual Power, as I did, but there is SOME risk that it might not meet your expectations. However, it certainly met mine, and I've gone over the machine with a fine-toothed comb. Haven't really found anything wrong with it yet, and I've strung probably a dozen racquets or so on it already. It works great and gives very consistent results.

Good luck.

andrew_b
11-01-2006, 03:06 PM
TonyB, if that's the machine I'm thinking of it is also a nice candidate. I've heard good things about Alpha machines. Where can I find more info? A quick Google didn't turn up a web site.

thanks,
Andrew

varuscelli
11-01-2006, 03:38 PM
TonyB, if that's the machine I'm thinking of it is also a nice candidate. I've heard good things about Alpha machines. Where can I find more info? A quick Google didn't turn up a web site.

thanks,
Andrew

Not to jump right out there and interrupt, but I've been looking at the Alpha site. Here's a link to their stinging machines page. You can see it from there.

http://www.alphatennis.com/machines.html

varuscelli
11-01-2006, 03:41 PM
Side Note: Mark from Alpha e-mailed me just a little while ago and let me know that the Alpha Revo 4000's were in. They've been on order or something and not in stock for a little while, but they're in now.

DANMAN
11-01-2006, 05:44 PM
If the budget is the $450 that the thread title states, I would suggest the fully upgradeable Laserfibre MS200 Eco. I shot a bunch of emails back and forth and almost got one as a second machine.

Koz
11-01-2006, 05:44 PM
I personally would get a nice dropweight machine. I was in your shoes several years ago, but with a lower budget ($300, so dropweights were the only choice). However, I really think a *quality* string job will take about the same on a dropweight fixed clamp machine as it will on a crank machine.

IMO the *quality* includes how close the tension actually is to reference tension, and how uniform the tension is over the stringbed.

I think the actual tension is closer to the reference tension on a dropweight, as shown in the link above.

On a crank, once the spring stretches do the desired tension, the tensioning force is removed, and the string is free to continue stretching, thus dropping tension. I think I've read that tensions produced by cranks can be 10% less than reference tension (54 lbs instead of target of 60lbs).

On a dropweight gravity doesn't turn off, so the tensioning continues even while the string stretches. If the string stretches too much, you'll see it in the lever arm. On a dropweight with a ratcheting tensioner, it's an easy fix. Just turn it one or two clicks and it's back to horizontal.

If it were my money, I'd buy a dropweight. Gamma or Laserfibre (probably the Laserfibre, but either will do a great job).

Redflea
11-01-2006, 09:17 PM
All the feedback above is just great, really useful stuff, and I appreciate it. I think I'm sold on a drop-weight...the small number of string jobs I'll do, the lack of a time/speed issue, and the lack of any calibration need.

I'll be reviewing info on the Gamma, Alpha, and Laserfibre...I've been thinking I'd stay away from Eagnas, given the comments on CS that I've read. That's important to me on any item I purchase...the Eagnas Combo 810 had caught my eye, but it's $50 over my budget (which is really $400) as well as the CS issues.

Thanks very much...the folks on this board always impress w/their knowledge and willingness to help!

Redflea
11-01-2006, 09:59 PM
So where do you guys buy the machines online...I'm finding very few vendors when I google, and the Alpha Tennis web site doesn't even seem to have a link to find out who their authorized retailers are...

And, does this on the Laserfibre site on the MS200 Eco mean that you can order it w/fixed clamps?

and is available with the stringer’s choice of either the 360º double action clamps or extra heavy-duty flying clamps.

varuscelli
11-01-2006, 10:26 PM
Hi, Redflea. Here's some info from the last couple of weeks that I've dug up and others have helped me to find.

So where do you guys buy the machines online...I'm finding very few vendors when I google, and the Alpha Tennis web site doesn't even seem to have a link to find out who their authorized retailers are...

See the thread on Alpha Sellers: Are They All in Texas? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=126261)

You'll see that Alpha has their own internal distributor and I listed several others I saw there. I'd suggest the Alpha internal distributor, New Tech Tennis. But you'll also see a couple of more options listed.

And, does this on the LaserFibre site on the MS200 Eco mean that you can order it w/fixed clamps?

See this thread for some rather extensive info that LaserFibre sent me: LaserFibre MS200TT ECO and Premium Cost and Upgradeability (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=124760)

That might help you sort out some of the available configurations (in part, anyway).

If you go with Alpha, call Mark (Alpha direct guy) or Greg (who I think answers the e-mails for New Tech Tennis portion of Alpha), but they're both Alpha guys. For LaserFibre, e-mail and phone numbers for them are on the main page of the LaserFibre site. I'm guessing direct contact with either of these companies would be the best way to go to buy one of their stringers or to ask questions.

Redflea
11-01-2006, 10:36 PM
Thanks...that's very helpful. Appreciate the links and suggestions.

BTW, love your sig, and as someone who came back to the game after a long layoff, feel exactly the same!

hadoken
11-01-2006, 11:00 PM
I would go used if you are patient...your budget can probably get you a used 2 pt crank fixed clamp machine from Gamma, Winn, Alpha, etc. They don't come up often...you'd probably need to check auction weekly, but I think you'll get one probably in 3-4 months max.

varuscelli
11-01-2006, 11:08 PM
Thanks...that's very helpful. Appreciate the links and suggestions.

BTW, love your sig, and as someone who came back to the game after a long layoff, feel exactly the same!

You're welcome. If it saves you a bit of digging, then great. :)

Yeah, the sig sounds a bit corny but it's the truth. This is the second time in my life that I've come back into the game after a long layoff and I wouldn't be telling the truth if I said it didn't feel like a sort of rebirth into the game. If you're a tennis player -- if you've got it in your blood -- and you come back into it after a long time away, it can affect your life on a lot of levels. Doesn't matter what level of tennis you play. It's how it makes you feel when you're out there and when you're anticipating being out there or when you've just come in from playing. How you feel physically and mentally from playing regularly. And even the feeling spiritual uplifting, some might say. Seriously. But I think you already know what I mean. ;)

Redflea
11-02-2006, 08:39 AM
I would go used if you are patient...your budget can probably get you a used 2 pt crank fixed clamp machine from Gamma, Winn, Alpha, etc. They don't come up often...you'd probably need to check auction weekly, but I think you'll get one probably in 3-4 months max.

That's the key, isn't it - patience. :) I'm going to watch auctions as I continue to read/research. Now that I've decided that I want to do this, whether I will have the patience to wait it out is a good question. Once I've decided to get one, waiting for toys has never been my strong suit... :)

andrew_b
11-02-2006, 08:57 AM
That's the key, isn't it - patience. :) I'm going to watch auctions as I continue to read/research. Now that I've decided that I want to do this, whether I will have the patience to wait it out is a good question. Once I've decided to get one, waiting for toys has never been my strong suit... :)
I'm the same way :D

Thinking more abou this, I think if I was in you shoes at this point I'd get a Laserfibre, even if the fixed clamp option was immediately out of reach budget-wise.

Flying clamps aren't that bad, and the any-position drop weight looks awfully cool. The no-penalty-cost to upgrade approach is nice as well.

Gamma was offering free shipping, but I think it ended. There are places you can get free shippign on them anyway, I think. And if you ask, some places may honor the online coupon for a while yet. FWIW, the Gamma Progression II 602 (and maybe the X-6, not sure?) can both also be upgraded to fixed clamps if you decide to go with flying clamps first.

play well,
Andrew

varuscelli
11-02-2006, 09:33 AM
If I were going with LaserFibre and wanted to stick to the $400 budget, I'd still try scrap up an extra $49 to extend the budget to $449 and go with the second item under ECO because of its full upgradeability:

The MS200TT - ECO configuration
$399 with flying clamps. Limited Upgradeability
$449 100% upgradeable to fixed clamps and Premium version
$629 with the 360-degree double action clamps. 100% upgradeable to Premium version.

The MS200TT - Premium configuration
$799 with the double action, 360-degree swivel clamps.
$929 with the single action, 360-degree swivel clamps

But, of course you still likely have to deal with shipping on these and that's probably another $40-$50 with weight alone (just guessing).

gotwheels
11-02-2006, 09:36 AM
redflea / varuscelli, The Alpha Pioneer DC Plus is a very nice fixed clamp dropweight. Check it out at newtechtennis dot com or talk with Greg or Mark. It has good build quality, a great price, 30 day return/trial guarantee, reasonable shipping, a string package that allows you to select quality strings of your choice, and great customer service before and after the sale. The ratchet/clutch mechanism doesn't require holding/turning and releases easily. The machine handles the new soft polys well, something a lot more difficult with any non-constant pull machine. The mounting system and everything about the machine is solid and you get the firmer stringbed that you don't get with the lockout style machines. It is a little slower, but the results are great.

The Laserfibre machine is a great machine with their one pull technology. However, by the time you get the upgrade and spring assist fixed clamps, you are at about double the price of the Alpha. If $ are not an issue, go upgraded Laserfibre. If at all possible, get a machine with fixed clamps.

Good luck with your decision and as much as you love racquets and string, you will love stringing.

Remember, anyone can string, but good stringing is an art and science!

Redflea
11-02-2006, 10:28 AM
Andrew, Varuscelli & Gotwheels:

Thanks....your points are well taken.

My price target is one of those philosophical issues...$400 is supposed to be my budget, and I'm doing my best to stick with it...seems like there is always a good option that just costs a bit more than what you want to spend, and I'm trying to avoid the creep upwards for what is a pretty silly purchase for me in the scheme of things. I know I'll get a good machine at or under that price, and paying for "more good" won't likely make my life significantly better...

I like the MS200TT - ECO w/the 100% upradable option, but that's breaking my budget, even if just by a little. The any-position drop weight does add a lot of sex appeal to it...that is the main reason I'm still considering it as an option in the $399 config. :)

BTW, I called both the Laserfibre 888 number and the 401 number listed on the Laserfibre site, neither was answered. The 401 number message said the number was disconnected. Maybe they've killed off direct sales? Strange...

LaserFibre, Inc.
LaserFibre Direct Sales Div.
PO Box 1767
Kingston, RI 02881
888.895.2350
401.295.2350

Gotwheels...the Alpha at $399 direct (no tax, $35 shipping) is looking like it may be my front-runner at this point if I buy new...I get the features I want at the price I set. I've seen very good comments on their customer service, and when I called them today to inquire about pricing/shipping, etc., the guy I talked to (Greg) was very helpful and courteous. I also think it would be easy to sell if I eventually decided I wasn't as interested in it as I think I'll be, as it includes an excellent set of features from a respected company at a good price.

Seems like the Gamma X-6FC and 602FC are over my price new, but if I could find either used they look like good options as well.

<singing>It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas... ;)

pmata814
11-02-2006, 10:54 AM
I like the MS200TT - ECO w/the 100% upradable option, but that's breaking my budget, even if just by a little. The any-position drop weight does add a lot of sex appeal to it...that is the main reason I'm still considering it as an option in the $399 config. :)

I'm new to stringing but I did a lot of research before I purchased my stringer. I remember reading that the any-position dropweight will not do much good if you are going to be using floating clamps, because of how inconsistent they are compared to fixed clamps. Better to go with regular dropweight and FIXED clamps (alpha) rather than constant pull(laserfibre) with floating clamps. However, if you can afford the laserfibre with fixed clamps then that would be the way to go. Again, this is just what I learned from research not from personal experience.

varuscelli
11-02-2006, 11:17 AM
That's the key, isn't it - patience. :) I'm going to watch auctions as I continue to read/research. Now that I've decided that I want to do this, whether I will have the patience to wait it out is a good question. Once I've decided to get one, waiting for toys has never been my strong suit... :)

I've been thinking about getting a stringing machine for about six weeks now and actually "shopping" them for only about three weeks. I haven't been in any real hurry and wanted to wait for a while until I found the right deal.

I had pretty much made up my mind that I was going to go with Alpha or LaserFibre and either pick a lower-end model of one of those and go with it or watch for something else that was too great a deal to pass up.

At this point, I am very close to going with a Gamma because one of those really good deals came up for me. I really wasn't leaning toward Gamma on the lower end, but they've got some very nice looking floor standing models that I would have considered but for being out of my price range. Right now, I'm sort of surprising myself by being 90 percent sure I'm going to have one of those floor models in a few days. Slightly used (very slightly) but at a cost that will get me a really nice machine for much, much less that retail. Slightly over what I wanted to spend originally, but a lot of machine for the money.

Once I actually have the deal done, I'll talk more about it. But my "patience" story here is that I had myself set up to wait for either one of the machines I that was on my list or watch for something that was higher end but at the right price. After only three weeks of "patience"( ;) ) something seems to have fallen into my lap. But we'll see.

andrew_b
11-02-2006, 12:51 PM
Andrew, Varuscelli & Gotwheels:

Thanks....your points are well taken.
You're welcome. It's kinda fun to shop vicariously ;)

My price target is one of those philosophical issues...$400 is supposed to be my budget, and I'm doing my best to stick with it...seems like there is always a good option that just costs a bit more than what you want to spend, and I'm trying to avoid the creep upwards for what is a pretty silly purchase for me in the scheme of things. I know I'll get a good machine at or under that price, and paying for "more good" won't likely make my life significantly better...
I'm notorious for doing this...I know exactly what you mean.

I like the MS200TT - ECO w/the 100% upradable option, but that's breaking my budget, even if just by a little. The any-position drop weight does add a lot of sex appeal to it...that is the main reason I'm still considering it as an option in the $399 config.
I'd say that's a right-on approach.

BTW, I called both the Laserfibre 888 number and the 401 number listed on the Laserfibre site, neither was answered. The 401 number message said the number was disconnected. Maybe they've killed off direct sales? Strange...

LaserFibre, Inc.
LaserFibre Direct Sales Div.
PO Box 1767
Kingston, RI 02881
888.895.2350
401.295.2350
That doesn't sound good :(

Gotwheels...the Alpha at $399 direct (no tax, $35 shipping) is looking like it may be my front-runner at this point if I buy new...I get the features I want at the price I set. I've seen very good comments on their customer service, and when I called them today to inquire about pricing/shipping, etc., the guy I talked to (Greg) was very helpful and courteous. I also think it would be easy to sell if I eventually decided I wasn't as interested in it as I think I'll be, as it includes an excellent set of features from a respected company at a good price.

Seems like the Gamma X-6FC and 602FC are over my price new, but if I could find either used they look like good options as well.
I've heard good things about Alpha, not just the machines but their CS. That machine looks very nice.

Sounds like you're on your way!

Oh, one other thing - in your original post, you said it wasn't really about saving money, but be assured in the end it will be (maybe not primary reason, but you'll end up saving is what I mean). For instance, if both you and you son have 2 frames and you string each once a month, that's 4 frames a month, and you will be saving anywhere from $10-30 per string job. It adds up very quickly.

One bit of advice as you get started - keep a stringing journal, where you keep track of all the frames you do, the strings you use, tension, patterns, etc. It becomes an invaluable tool and reference.

play well,
Andrew

varuscelli
11-02-2006, 01:12 PM
BTW, I called both the Laserfibre 888 number and the 401 number listed on the Laserfibre site, neither was answered. The 401 number message said the number was disconnected. Maybe they've killed off direct sales? Strange...

LaserFibre, Inc.
LaserFibre Direct Sales Div.
PO Box 1767
Kingston, RI 02881
888.895.2350
401.295.2350


Interesting. The LaserFibre guys been very good at answering my e-mails (fairly promptly, too -- just as have the Alpha guys) and in their replies to me have said that if I had any questions that I could call them at the 888 number you listed, above. The other number was not shown in their e-mail replies to me -- although I realize it's on their website. I've never tried calling them at either number, though. But I would sure want to talk to them directly if I were seriously wanting to place an order to find out what their delivery schedule is like right now.

Koz
11-02-2006, 02:27 PM
I bought my Gamma from ATS Sports. Hope you enjoy your new machine!

Redflea
11-02-2006, 02:51 PM
Interesting. The LaserFibre guys been very good at answering my e-mails (fairly promptly, too -- just as have the Alpha guys) and in their replies to me have said that if I had any questions that I could call them at the 888 number you listed, above. The other number was not shown in their e-mail replies to me -- although I realize it's on their website. I've never tried calling them at either number, though. But I would sure want to talk to them directly if I were seriously wanting to place an order to find out what their delivery schedule is like right now.

Yeah...somewhat disconcerting. I don't believe I was able to find any other numbers on their web site, so it didn't exactly build confidence. :(

varuscelli
11-02-2006, 03:19 PM
Yeah...somewhat disconcerting. I don't believe I was able to find any other numbers on their web site, so it didn't exactly build confidence. :(

Did you try e-mailing them, by any chance? From the page where the phone numbers are listed?

I sure have to say, though, that from the perspective of having a handle on all around communications and customer service response, Alpha seems to be well in the lead (between those two companies). I sure like the looks of that LaserFibre drop-weight, though, after doing all this homework.

eunjam
11-02-2006, 04:06 PM
fixed clamps with 6 points are such a HUGE bonus to have.

it's not necessary......but just really really nice to have.

Redflea
11-02-2006, 05:47 PM
Sent an email to Laserfibre asking about their phone numbers...we'll see what they say.

Thanks, eunjam...that's sort of how I feel.... :)

andrew_b
11-03-2006, 07:55 AM
fixed clamps with 6 points are such a HUGE bonus to have.

it's not necessary......but just really really nice to have.

I agree on the fixed clamps, but I think there are acceptable (equivalent) quality mounts out that are not 6 point (two that come immediately to mind are the new Gamma 2 point, or the Laserfibre 5 point). But a good mounting system is, indeed, critical.

keep up the hunt and let us know about the Laserfibre contact issue!

play well,
Andrew

Redflea
11-03-2006, 09:18 AM
I found another number on the Laserfibre site (401) 783-5412. No human answer, after many rings went to machine and said all agents were busy and leave name/number for call back. So far Laserfibre doesn't get a very high score in terms of just getting basic contact w/a human via phone.

No reply on my email, but I only sent it last night...

barry
11-03-2006, 10:31 AM
I found another number on the Laserfibre site (401) 783-5412. No human answer, after many rings went to machine and said all agents were busy and leave name/number for call back. So far Laserfibre doesn't get a very high score in terms of just getting basic contact w/a human via phone.

No reply on my email, but I only sent it last night...

Is the parent company going out business?

http://www.stringway.com/

says the domain name is forsale.

Court_Jester
11-03-2006, 10:41 AM
Is the parent company going out business?

http://www.stringway.com/

says the domain name is forsale.
It's not going out of business. It's just changing its domain name:

http://www.stringway-nl.com

Redflea
11-03-2006, 11:54 AM
Must be looking to sell the domain to a distributor, maybe...interesting.

Redflea
11-04-2006, 04:28 PM
OK...I'm just about ready to order...DECISION TIME!

I know I said I'd be patient and see if a used machine showed up, but I've determined that if I wait any longer I might blow a blood vessel deep inside my brain, and that wouldn't be any fun, right? ;)

Out:

Eagnas - due to poor support/service, misc. comments linking them to Sauron and the Ring Wraiths.

Laserfibre - due to pricing being too high ($449 just to get something that could be upgradable to fixed clamps later), and recent problems getting in touch w/them and phone numbers on their site not working, etc., didn't help, either.

In:

Alpha Pioneer DC (http://www.alphatennis.com/pioneerdc.html). The odds-on favorite. Price is $399, exactly what I want, shipping only $35, no tax. 6 pt, fixed clamps, good support, and good comments here and elsewhere.

Borderline:

Gamma Progression II 602FC (http://www.gammasports.com/Gamma.cfm?ProdID=266&secondary=254568). Price is $469, too high, 6 pt, fixed clamps, good support, good comments here and elsewhere. I got one comment that the Gamma base may be more stable, and the Gamma mounting system looks like it is more robust.

Does anyone believe that the Gamma is worth the additional $69 due to better overall quality of parts/construction, durability, support, ease of stringing, etc.? I've decided I may be willing to pay the additional $ for the Gamma if I get some pretty strong comments about it compared to the Alpha. I'm not going any more than that, absolutely. It's the Alpha at $399 or the Gamma at $469.

Why have I suddenly lifted my "immovable" $ ceiling? Well, my wife went out this weekend and bought $450 worth of future massage sessions for herself. So the gloves are (sort of) off, baby... ;)

As always, greatly appreciate your help.

andrew_b
11-04-2006, 06:15 PM
OK...I'm just about ready to order...DECISION TIME!
Woohoo!

I know I said I'd be patient and see if a used machine showed up, but I've determined that if I wait any longer I might blow a blood vessel deep inside my brain, and that wouldn't be any fun, right?
Been there, done that for sure!

Out:

Eagnas - due to poor support/service, misc. comments linking them to Sauron and the Ring Wraiths.

Laserfibre - due to pricing being too high ($449 just to get something that could be upgradable to fixed clamps later), and recent problems getting in touch w/them and phone numbers on their site not working, etc., didn't help, either.
I'd have to agree. It's a shame about the communication issue on the Laserfibre, it's even keeping me from considering them and I was pretty much set on one.


In:

Alpha Pioneer DC (http://www.alphatennis.com/pioneerdc.html). The odds-on favorite. Price is $399, exactly what I want, shipping only $35, no tax. 6 pt, fixed clamps, good support, and good comments here and elsewhere.

Borderline:

Gamma Progression II 602FC (http://www.gammasports.com/Gamma.cfm?ProdID=266&secondary=254568). Price is $469, too high, 6 pt, fixed clamps, good support, good comments here and elsewhere. I got one comment that the Gamma base may be more stable, and the Gamma mounting system looks like it is more robust.

Does anyone believe that the Gamma is worth the additional $69 due to better overall quality of parts/construction, durability, support, ease of stringing, etc.? I've decided I may be willing to pay the additional $ for the Gamma if I get some pretty strong comments about it compared to the Alpha. I'm not going any more than that, absolutely. It's the Alpha at $399 or the Gamma at $469.

One thing to consider - can you get free shipping on the Gamma somehow? They JUST ended an offer withthat - just tried the old code, didn't work :( That would get the difference down to $34.

As far as base and mounting, all I can say is the Gammas I've seen are rock solid. Again, haven't seen an Alpha, but the photos look good.

I've had my Gamma Progression 200 for over 10 years, never a single problem, great, immediate support (with questions I've had), and the thing looks almost new. But I can't compare directly against the Alpha, as I said I haven't seen one in person, although I've heard good things about them. The one thing I'd want to know more about on the DC is the string gripper. I think it's one of the few (if not only) machines I've seen that has a linear gripper (as opposed to the drum) on a dropweight. Maybe someone who owns one could comment. I know the clutch/ratchet works very easily on the Gamma, and having never seen how the clutch works on the Alpha, I'd be curious to hear about it.

Why have I suddenly lifted my "immovable" $ ceiling? Well, my wife went out this weekend and bought $450 worth of future massage sessions for herself. So the gloves are (sort of) off, baby... ;)

As always, greatly appreciate your help.
heh. wives are smart that way sometimes...she knew you wanted a new toy, now you have "permission" to get one - and she got something as well!

play well,
Andrew

gotwheels
11-04-2006, 06:18 PM
I have the Alpha Pioneer DC Plus and the mounting system and base are very solid. The mounting system, base, and clamps are the same as their more expensive lockout machines. The dropweight ratchet and linear string gripper are very easy and comfortable to use, better than the Gamma I think.

I have had the opportunity to put my hands on the Gamma X-6FC, Progression II 602FC, and the Progression ST II and the Alpha is equal or more solid. I did like the slim profile clamps on the Progression ST II.The Gammas are very nice machines, but in my evaluation (wanted good clamps, mounts, and constant pull), I thought the Alpha Pioneer DC Plus was the better value and better machine and I have not been disappointed.

I don't think you will be disappointed with either machine as your selection.

varuscelli
11-04-2006, 07:08 PM
I'd have to agree. It's a shame about the communication issue on the Laserfibre, it's even keeping me from considering them and I was pretty much set on one.

I agree, too. I was all fired up about maybe getting one of the MS200TT units, and it seems like they might have sold a number of them this in the last month alone (to TW forum members) if the machines were actually available. Whatever difficulties they are having might not be their fault, but I think that whatever it is certainly is hurting both their reputations and their potential sales.

And even though I hate to look at it this way, it sort of begs the questions of "What if something went wrong with a newly bought LaserFibre machine and it needed a part or service? Would needed parts or service potentially be a problem in light of whatever their present difficulties are?"

I dunno. It's a very puzzling situation. If I'm recalling correctly, wasn't there talk of a customs holdup in getting the latest shipment of machines into the United States, or something along those lines? Now I can't even remember who said that. :(

Court_Jester
11-04-2006, 07:55 PM
I used to have the MS200TT as my #1 choice and thought of buying one after the summer peak season but with them having difficulties filling orders, I decided to "settle" for my #2 choice: the Revo 4000. I should have gone for this a long time ago. An awesome machine, to say the least.

The one thing I'd want to know more about on the DC is the string gripper. I think it's one of the few (if not only) machines I've seen that has a linear gripper (as opposed to the drum) on a dropweight. Maybe someone who owns one could comment. I know the clutch/ratchet works very easily on the Gamma, and having never seen how the clutch works on the Alpha, I'd be curious to hear about it.
Obviously, I don't own a Pioneer DC Plus (check newtechtennis dot com) but my old String Pal had the same linear gripper. If you don't see yourself using polys, both drum and linear grippers work well. But if you intend to use polys, I'd go for the linear gripper. With drum grippers, you have to bend the string at near 90 degrees. This is not a problem for syn guts and multis but for stiff strings like polys, the gripper will leave the deep crease on the string, making weaving crosses more difficult later on.

But I agree with gotwheels. Both machines will give you excellent performance for the money.

Redflea
11-04-2006, 09:43 PM
I used to have the MS200TT as my #1 choice and thought of buying one after the summer peak season but with them having difficulties filling orders, I decided to "settle" for my #2 choice: the Revo 4000. I should have gone for this a long time ago. An awesome machine, to say the least.


Obviously, I don't own a Pioneer DC Plus (check newtechtennis dot com) but my old String Pal had the same linear gripper. If you don't see yourself using polys, both drum and linear grippers work well. But if you intend to use polys, I'd go for the linear gripper. With drum grippers, you have to bend the string at near 90 degrees. This is not a problem for syn guts and multis but for stiff strings like polys, the gripper will leave the deep crease on the string, making weaving crosses more difficult later on.

But I agree with gotwheels. Both machines will give you excellent performance for the money.

As usual...you guys come through w/very helpful info.

I will be using polys (more for my sons than me) as well as multis, gut, etc., so the linear gripper on the Alpha is a nice plus on the cheaper of the two, and gotwheels' comments on his comparison of the Alpha and Gamma is very useful. (Hey - why isn't there a "Beta" and "Omega" as well?! :) )

I think I'm just about sold...on the Alpha Pioneer CD. Meets my price and feature requirements, and I just had a good feeling when I talked with the guy at Alpha (Greg?) on the phone. Going once, going twice....

<Littleboymode>I AM SO EXCITED!</Littleboymode> :D :D

MrBluefin
11-04-2006, 11:08 PM
This is an amazing thread. I thought I was the only one tormenting myself over the purchase of a stringing machine. I too have recently started playing again after a very extended absence. At $25-$40 per string job, it starts to hurt. I too set an approximate limit of $400 for a machine, when all the maybe's and what if's start creeping in.

The Alpha and the Gamma have been on my very short list for some time. The others are out for the same reasons listed earlier. I'm still torn between the drop weight and the crank decision. I know for about $150 more, I can get the Revo. I know my playing partners will want their racquets done, so there is about 6-8 racquets that will need stringing every 3-4 weeks (that's about how long our string jobs are lasting). Is the time savings of a crank worth the extra $$$ ? If I buy the drop weight, will I be kicking myself for not spending the extra $$$ for the crank. These are the decisions that keeps me up at night!!

Thanks for all the great info in this thread, and for listening (reading). I've been lurking for many months, and this site is a great resource.

Redflea
11-04-2006, 11:24 PM
Group hug... :)

I feel lucky now, my purchase decision variables are a lot simpler...

Redflea
11-04-2006, 11:33 PM
heh. wives are smart that way sometimes...she knew you wanted a new toy, now you have "permission" to get one - and she got something as well!

play well,
Andrew

You have it right. :)

I'm lucky...we have established a great relationship after over 15 years of marriage...better than when we were first married. Plus, now she knows her string jobs will be "free." ;)

pmata814
11-05-2006, 11:47 AM
...I'm still torn between the drop weight and the crank decision. I know for about $150 more, I can get the Revo. I know my playing partners will want their racquets done, so there is about 6-8 racquets that will need stringing every 3-4 weeks (that's about how long our string jobs are lasting). Is the time savings of a crank worth the extra $$$ ? If I buy the drop weight, will I be kicking myself for not spending the extra $$$ for the crank. These are the decisions that keeps me up at night!!...

I originally purchased the Pioneer DC Plus (dropweight) and after a couple of frames decided to upgrade to a crank. I didn't want to wait for the Revo 4k so I went up to the Axis Pro. It is so much more enjoyable to string on a crank, in my opinion, than it is on a dropweight. Dropweights aren't bad but it does get kind of annoying to raise the bar over and over and over again. Also, when you are tensioning the first mains... the butt of the racquet ends up directly over the bar and it's cumbersome to move it slightly aside so you can raise the bar and get it perfectly level. I'm sure others with more experience have no problem with it but I'm very glad I upgraded.

josephhkim
11-05-2006, 12:57 PM
indeed, drop weights can drive people mad. Obviously, if theres a clutch, its much easier.

If you'll be doing large quantities of racket, i absolutely recommend a crank or electric.

However, if its only a couple every month, it probably isn't worth the money.

whomprat
11-05-2006, 05:32 PM
Although Laserfibre has had trouble getting their new machines out (I believe Tim said it's usually the bases for the TT's that are short), once I received my machine, any problems, questions, or string purchases have been handled very quickly. I feel completely comfortable that if something went wrong on my machine (which there isn't too much that could break), it would be taken care of right away.

whomprat

varuscelli
11-05-2006, 06:33 PM
Although Laserfibre has had trouble getting their new machines out (I believe Tim said it's usually the bases for the TT's that are short), once I received my machine, any problems, questions, or string purchases have been handled very quickly. I feel completely comfortable that if something went wrong on my machine (which there isn't too much that could break), it would be taken care of right away.

whomprat

I'm glad you threw that in there, with the comments I made and what kinds of things might potentially be read into my comments. In reality, I didn't intend to cast any doubt toward the quality of the products or service, but I have to admit that the ongoing problems with receipt and/or shipping out of their machines is at least on the surface making LaserFibre look sort of bad (at this particular point in time).

And on the service comments, my speculation was really meant in terms of what if a part were needed that was not in stock? Could it mean weeks of waiting and downtime on a machine? But I understand your point (and I'm glad you commented) that if only keeping the bases in stock has been a problem, that the likelihood of a problem going unresolved is remote -- and indeed, there is probably very little that would go wrong in the first place. I certainly don't want anyone to infer from my comments that LaserFibre might be unreliable. Just wanted to clear that part up.

Redflea
11-05-2006, 07:55 PM
Although Laserfibre has had trouble getting their new machines out (I believe Tim said it's usually the bases for the TT's that are short), once I received my machine, any problems, questions, or string purchases have been handled very quickly. I feel completely comfortable that if something went wrong on my machine (which there isn't too much that could break), it would be taken care of right away.

whomprat

Glad to hear that your experience has been very good w/laserfibre.

Just wondering....when was the last time you were in touch w/them, how have you gotten in touch w/them (email or phone), and how promptly have they responded? Did you ever use the Laserfibre Direct Sales phone numbers that I noted were either disconnected or not answered? 888.895.2350
401.295.2350.

Laserfibre is a bit out of the price range I've set for myself, so that was a more important factor than the contact issues. However, the difficulty I had getting to a human on their end didn't leave me looking hard for ways to rationalize going outside my range to get one, if you know what I mean. I hope they get their contact numbers on their web site straightened out...that was really the main reason I emailed them, to make sure they were aware of the problem...

whomprat
11-06-2006, 05:19 AM
I usually e-mail with any questions about the machine. I will get a response within a day or two depending on the question. When I order strings, I usually call the number on the webpage (the 888 one). I tend to call near the end of the day after work, and it sometimes takes a few tries, but they'll pick up. I haven't tried leaving a message.

I try to relate to their situation. If you try to call me at work, it's very unlikely that you'll get ahold of me on the first try since I'm always up running around. I figure it may be the same for them.

greggara
11-06-2006, 05:50 AM
Redflea,
Are you still looking for a stringer? I have a Gamma x6fc that is about a year old. Did about 12 frames with it. Upgrading to a crank. Thanks

Redflea
11-06-2006, 09:25 AM
I usually e-mail with any questions about the machine. I will get a response within a day or two depending on the question. When I order strings, I usually call the number on the webpage (the 888 one). I tend to call near the end of the day after work, and it sometimes takes a few tries, but they'll pick up. I haven't tried leaving a message.

I try to relate to their situation. If you try to call me at work, it's very unlikely that you'll get ahold of me on the first try since I'm always up running around. I figure it may be the same for them.

Thanks, Whomprat...I agree from a personal perspective (I'm never at my desk, either). :) But for a business to not answer the phone and/or have numbers listed on their site that are disconnected is not good for their business. I hope they get that straightened out soon, for their own sake. They've got a very nice product...

Redflea
11-06-2006, 09:27 AM
Redflea,
Are you still looking for a stringer? I have a Gamma x6fc that is about a year old. Did about 12 frames with it. Upgrading to a crank. Thanks

Yup...haven't ordered quite yet. But I have to admit I'd be a little leery ordering from a new member here...you can email me details at <edited> with details/price and we can "talk." :)

bmichaelia
11-06-2006, 01:08 PM
OK...I'm just about ready to order...DECISION TIME!



Out:


In:

Alpha Pioneer DC (http://www.alphatennis.com/pioneerdc.html). The odds-on favorite. Price is $399, exactly what I want, shipping only $35, no tax. 6 pt, fixed clamps, good support, and good comments here and elsewhere.

Borderline:

Gamma Progression II 602FC (http://www.gammasports.com/Gamma.cfm?ProdID=266&secondary=254568). Price is $469, too high, 6 pt, fixed clamps, good support, good comments here and elsewhere. I got one comment that the Gamma base may be more stable, and the Gamma mounting system looks like it is more robust.

Does anyone believe that the Gamma is worth the additional $69 due to better overall quality of parts/construction, durability, support, ease of stringing, etc.? I've decided I may be willing to pay the additional $ for the Gamma if I get some pretty strong comments about it compared to the Alpha. I'm not going any more than that, absolutely. It's the Alpha at $399 or the Gamma at $469.

Why have I suddenly lifted my "immovable" $ ceiling? Well, my wife went out this weekend and bought $450 worth of future massage sessions for herself. So the gloves are (sort of) off, baby... ;)

As always, greatly appreciate your help.


Redflea - Just saw at ATS Sports they're advertising free shipping and a cover for the Gamma. You might take a look. I'm very interested in your outcome, because I've just started looking too, and at the same machines.
Has anyone mentioned the low end Silent Partners? On the surface, they look like a good value.

Anyway, good hunting.

Redflea
11-06-2006, 01:37 PM
Redflea - Just saw at ATS Sports they're advertising free shipping and a cover for the Gamma. You might take a look. I'm very interested in your outcome, because I've just started looking too, and at the same machines.
Has anyone mentioned the low end Silent Partners? On the surface, they look like a good value.

Anyway, good hunting.

Damn them! ;)

I went ahead and ordered the Alpha from Greg at Alpha Tennis. W/luck he said he might be able to get it out today to get it to me by this Friday.

I figured it was time to fish or cut bait...the Alpha provides the features I said I wanted at the price I said I wanted, has had positive comments across the board. I decided that I preferred buying new so I get that new stringer smell. ;)

So hopefully I'll have it by Friday and will begin destroying my racquets over the weekend. I'm sure many questions will come up, so as Arnold likes to say, I'll be back.

And a very big thank you, to all of you who helped me with this decision...the support and assistance here was fantastic and I really appreciate it!

TonyB
11-06-2006, 06:18 PM
Glad to see you got the DC. As I said, it was a toss-up between the Mutual Power Hercules 610 and the Alpha Pioneer for me. I ended up deciding on the Hercules simply because of the price. I'm happy with it -- I have no complaints about the quality of the string job and the machine seems pretty solid.

Be sure to let us know how the machine works out for you.

jonolau
11-07-2006, 07:55 AM
You have it right. :)

I'm lucky...we have established a great relationship after over 15 years of marriage...better than when we were first married. Plus, now she knows her string jobs will be "free." ;)
After my wife gave me the nod of approval to get my machine, I stocked up on a few sets of Prince Lightning XX in PINK. That pleased her to no end. Now her O3 White is strung with TF Redcode in the mains and Pink PLXX on the crosses. :D

Redflea
11-07-2006, 09:25 AM
After my wife gave me the nod of approval to get my machine, I stocked up on a few sets of Prince Lightning XX in PINK. That pleased her to no end. Now her O3 White is strung with TF Redcode in the mains and Pink PLXX on the crosses. :D

Clever, very clever. :)

Now I'm in the waiting zone...hoping it will arrive on Friday so I can begin playing. I want my toy!!

gotwheels
11-07-2006, 12:13 PM
redflea, I don't think you will regret your choice. Solid machine for many years. If you have not strung before, see if there is a MRT in your area that will let you observe or give you a lesson (well worth the $ if there is a charge). This will allow you to start with a solid information base and help eliminate rookie mistakes and the development of bad habits. Even a Klippermate manual is worth reading. Use the tutorials on Jen's site, stringforum dot net, and the Silent Partner site information and you will do fine. Become a lifetime student of stringing. Enjoy.

Anyone can string, but good stringing is an art and a science!

Redflea
11-07-2006, 12:24 PM
Thanks...your comments were very helpful in my purchase decision. I'm very excited about getting it. I just checked, and estimated delivery date is this week - so they did get it shipped on time.

Shipping weight is listed as 49.4 lbs! I had no idea it was that heavy. Does that sound like an accurate weight? I think I'm going to have to revise my plans to put it on top of our coffee table w/just a newspaper under it when I'm using it...and find a place to store it when I'm not using it, now that I think of it...think my wife would mind if it sat at the foot of our bed? ;)

varuscelli
11-07-2006, 12:35 PM
Shipping weight is listed as 49.4 lbs! I had no idea it was that heavy. Does that sound like an accurate weight? I think I'm going to have to revise my plans to put it on top of our coffee table w/just a newspaper under it when I'm using it...and find a place to store it when I'm not using it, now that I think of it...think my wife would mind if it sat at the foot of our bed? ;)

Ha! Funny...(Maybe if you put a Stringing Machine Cozy over it. They're really called "covers" but if you say it's a "cozy" it might fly).

Shipping weight is also being discussed in another thread (weight of the Alpha Revo 4000). The shipping weight (on just about anything) is usually going to be considerably higher than the actual weight. I'd guess that you could drop at least 10-15 pounds off the shipping weight of this one to get a closer guess to the machine's actual weight. Something in that neighborhood, anyway.

Redflea
11-07-2006, 12:39 PM
Ha! Funny...(Maybe if you put a Stringing Machine Cozy over it. They're really called "covers" but if you say it's a "cozy" it might fly).

Shipping weight is also being discussed in another thread (weight of the Alpha Revo 4000). The shipping weight (on just about anything) is usually going to be considerably higher than the actual weight. I'd guess that you could drop at least 10-15 pounds off the shipping weight of this one to get a closer guess to the machine's actual weight. Something in that neighborhood, anyway.

Yeah...I just noticed and posted there. I'll post actual weight after I receive it, and I did send an email to Alpha to ask them...

Cozy sounds good...if I can get my mom to knit it for us, I think I can sell it!

varuscelli
11-07-2006, 12:46 PM
Cozy sounds good...if I can get my mom to knit it for us, I think I can sell it!

Get her to knit one for me, too, will you? I'll get you the dimensions on the Gamma as soon as I can. :)

It's funny that the manufacturers/seller don't make the actual weight of the machines as easy thing to find.

My guess is that they don't want people calling them and saying/asking, "Hey, it says this machine weighs 35 lbs but you're charging me for 70 lbs shipping weight! You b*****ds!" Think that might have anything to do with it? ;)

bmichaelia
11-07-2006, 12:54 PM
Yeah...I just noticed and posted there. I'll post actual weight after I receive it, and I did send an email to Alpha to ask them...

Cozy sounds good...if I can get my mom to knit it for us, I think I can sell it!

AlphaTennis told me the DC weighs 46 lbs. Get ready for a little weight lifting.

gotwheels
11-07-2006, 01:03 PM
redflea, The listed weight is pretty close. It is a solid machine, cast turntable and posts. I recommend that you get a portable stand or table about 30" in height. Some have used the B&D Workmates (there is a basic version that doesn't have the vise arrangement that would work well). WalMart has some portable tables (~2ft. x 3ft.) that adjust in height witha plastic top that would work well. Other options: rolling AV carts, mechanic carts, etc.

Redflea
11-07-2006, 01:14 PM
Already got a reply from Alpha...I love these guys!

And...(adding this after I saw your posts above) as you say, the Pioneer DC is a very solid unit...

The actual stringing machine weight is 43lbs, when adding the box, packing foam, etc, the shipping weight comes out to 49.4 lbs.

Then of course consider the racquet weight which normally avergage 10 ozs. Plus any extra tools you will add. The 43lbs, does include both clamps and the 3 stringing tools that accompany it.

Thanks for the suggestions on tables...sounds like I'll have to check into it. I was planning on stringing in the family room, but can't leave it sitting out there, and the closets are already stuffed to capacity... Oh me, oh my! :)

bmichaelia
11-07-2006, 01:20 PM
I have the Alpha Pioneer DC Plus and the mounting system and base are very solid. The mounting system, base, and clamps are the same as their more expensive lockout machines. The dropweight ratchet and linear string gripper are very easy and comfortable to use, better than the Gamma I think.

I have had the opportunity to put my hands on the Gamma X-6FC, Progression II 602FC, and the Progression ST II and the Alpha is equal or more solid. I did like the slim profile clamps on the Progression ST II.The Gammas are very nice machines, but in my evaluation (wanted good clamps, mounts, and constant pull), I thought the Alpha Pioneer DC Plus was the better value and better machine and I have not been disappointed.

I don't think you will be disappointed with either machine as your selection.


How portable do you find the DC? I'm probably going to store mine in a closet when not used, and have to haul it out when I need it. Thanks-

Redflea
11-07-2006, 01:30 PM
How portable do you find the DC? I'm probably going to store mine in a closet when not used, and have to haul it out when I need it. Thanks-

If we're hauling it around w/out a cart, the portability is tied closely to our personal physique and how much we enjoy lifting/carrying about 45 lbs around. :) And don't even bring up what my wife would do to me if I dropped it on our wood/tile floor...

I was planning on going to the gym tonight, so I'm going to play around w/the free weights a little to get a sense of hauling 40 lbs around...I have a feeling I'm going to have to hit the gym a little harder to support my stringing activities. ;)

jonolau
11-07-2006, 03:05 PM
I was planning on going to the gym tonight, so I'm going to play around w/the free weights a little to get a sense of hauling 40 lbs around...I have a feeling I'm going to have to hit the gym a little harder to support my stringing activities. ;)
I feel that there's a key fundamental difference between lifting barbells/dumbells vs lugging a stringing machine: one was designed to be lifted, the other was designed for stringing racquets.

Before I bought mine, I thought that I'd place it on the dining table during stringing and put it away in the storeroom when not used. But after carrying it once, I realised that the potential chiropractor fees weren't worth it and eventually bolted it onto a small bedisde table that was just the right height and left it permanently in my master bedroom.

varuscelli
11-07-2006, 03:11 PM
Before I bought mine, I thought that I'd place it on the dining table during stringing and put it away in the storeroom when not used. But after carrying it once, I realised that the potential chiropractor fees weren't worth it and eventually bolted it onto a small bedisde table that was just the right height and left it permanently in my master bedroom.

Did your wife knit you one of those stringing machine cozies we've been talking about? Or does she going to be nice and just pretend not to notice it? :)

I'm afraid my wife is never going to allow ours in the bedroom, so I'm going to have to get up nights to go check on it. Grrr...

jonolau
11-07-2006, 03:20 PM
Did your wife knit you one of those stringing machine cozies we've been talking about? Or does she going to be nice and just pretend not to notice it? :)

I'm afraid my wife is never going to allow ours in the bedroom, so I'm going to have to get up nights to go check on it. Grrr...
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how one looks at it) she doesn't knit. But she does bake mean muffins which results in me carrying more weight on top of the stringing machine.

But I do like your idea of using the hospital tables to trundle it about. If given the choice, I'd rather have it in the living room as I do my stringing late in the night and the noise cancels out the dialogue of Grey's Anatomy ... ;)

Redflea
11-07-2006, 03:30 PM
Did your wife knit you one of those stringing machine cozies we've been talking about? Or does she going to be nice and just pretend not to notice it? :)

I'm afraid my wife is never going to allow ours in the bedroom, so I'm going to have to get up nights to go check on it. Grrr...

Geez, yah...if I really told my wife I was going to keep the Alpha in the bedroom, that might be the last time I was allowed in the bedroom. ;)

Mine is going to go on a table of some sort with wheels...not sure yet if I'll make it or buy it. Then storage will be in our hall closet, where I have some stuff I can move out of the way. Gonna need some nice soft wheels so I can roll it across the wood floor w/out leaving a crease... :D

Gotwheels...can you measure the length of the Pioneer DC when the drop-weight arm is folded over the unit as far down as it will go, and the height of the drop-wieght in that position? I'm trying to confirm how big a table-top I'll need to set it on. I'm going to try to get things ready, do some table/wheel scouting and confirm that I can fit it where I want to.

Also (Stupid question?), do you guys prefer to string standing up w/the stringer at normal table height, or sitting/kneeling on the floor w/the machine lower?

Redflea
11-07-2006, 03:34 PM
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how one looks at it) she doesn't knit. But she does bake mean muffins which results in me carrying more weight on top of the stringing machine.

But I do like your idea of using the hospital tables to trundle it about. If given the choice, I'd rather have it in the living room as I do my stringing late in the night and the noise cancels out the dialogue of Grey's Anatomy ... ;)

Awww, how can you not love that show?! :) I started watching it because of my wife, but I have to admit I'm hooked now. What's not to love...frequent views of scantily clad women interspersed with close-ups of grisly surgeries. :D

varuscelli
11-07-2006, 04:24 PM
Awww, how can you not love that show?! :) I started watching it because of my wife, but I have to admit I'm hooked now. What's not to love...frequent views of scantily clad women interspersed with close-ups of grisly surgeries. :D

Not to mention that guy who was stringing an M-Fil in the last episode. :p

gotwheels
11-07-2006, 04:59 PM
bmcihaelia, The Alpha Pioneer DC Plus is hefty as redflea verified. You can lug it around and break it down some dimensionally (lower the arm, remove the posts, etc.). I prefer to keep mine on a work table that is adjusted for height and small in foor print, so one can move easily around the machine. Mass in this case is good!

redflea, I think you will prefer to work in a standing position. Some approximate dimensions of the Pioneer DC Plus are: Base (18 1/2" long, 8 5/8" wide), Arm down height ( just under 9" to top of clutch assembly, but 11" with the side support in place, and 9 1/2" with the post in place. The side support and post can be removed without tools if you choose.), Overall length with turntable in line (27 1/2", this reduces to 20 1/2" with TT at 90 degrees; however, the overall width changes to 21 1/4" which is the length of the TT).

Hope the measurements are of use.

Redflea
11-07-2006, 05:17 PM
Just had a few emails w/Alpha...love those guys! Part of his (Mark's) last response...

...if you have any questions about the operation of the machine or stringing process, just give us a call or an email.

They sent me a short video that shows tensioning w/the Pioneer DC...hopefully they will find time to make more.

Court_Jester
11-07-2006, 05:18 PM
Also (Stupid question?), do you guys prefer to string standing up w/the stringer at normal table height, or sitting/kneeling on the floor w/the machine lower?
Hmm, my Revo is a technically a tabletop model but I string standing up since it's sitting on top of a desk which just happens to have a perfect height for me.

Redflea
11-07-2006, 06:48 PM
bmcihaelia, The Alpha Pioneer DC Plus is hefty as redflea verified. You can lug it around and break it down some dimensionally (lower the arm, remove the posts, etc.). I prefer to keep mine on a work table that is adjusted for height and small in foor print, so one can move easily around the machine. Mass in this case is good!

redflea, I think you will prefer to work in a standing position. Some approximate dimensions of the Pioneer DC Plus are: Base (18 1/2" long, 8 5/8" wide), Arm down height ( just under 9" to top of clutch assembly, but 11" with the side support in place, and 9 1/2" wi
th the post in place. The side support and post can be removed without tools if you choose.), Overall length with turntable in line (27 1/2", this reduces to 20 1/2" with TT at 90 degrees; however, the overall width changes to 21 1/4" which is the length of the TT).

Hope the measurements are of use.

Thanks very much - just perfect for table hunting/planning!

I didn't ask one question very clearly...I was wondering what the total height of the unit is (from base to top of arm when it is down). Could I ask you to check that, please?

Redflea
11-07-2006, 07:06 PM
Hmm, my Revo is a technically a tabletop model but I string standing up since it's sitting on top of a desk which just happens to have a perfect height for me.

Thanks...so standard table height is probably the way to go, then? Or if you had the option, would you have preferred it higher? I'm 6'2", by the way...

I'm imagining maybe building something w/some shelves on it to hold strings, tools, etc., wheels on the bottom...this could be fun!

varuscelli
11-07-2006, 07:45 PM
I'm imagining maybe building something w/some shelves on it to hold strings, tools, etc., wheels on the bottom...this could be fun!

One of the things I had been looking forward to with a tabletop model was just that. Being able to take some kind of basic table or cart and customize it to my own needs/preferences. I do enough woodwork (off and on) to feel like I could either build my own or take something that was close and modify it to my own needs. And I agree with you! That part could be a lot of fun. :)

gotwheels
11-07-2006, 08:14 PM
redflea, I may not be understanding the dimension you are looking for - the 9" height dimension was with the drop weight arm stop removed such that the arm was rotated forward onto the turntable - 9" from the bottom of the base to the top of the clutch assembly. The four side supports and the head and throat posts will now be the high points. The height of the stringer with the drop weight arm in the working position against the stop pin (ready for you to insert the string into the linear gripper) is 22 1/4" from the bottom of the base to the tip of the drop weight arm.

I would target your stringer height to be with you standing and your forearm bent at your elbows at about 90 degrees, hands in a stringing position on your frame. Establish this dimension and then it is about 10" lower to the top of your stringing stand. I believe the ergonomics are important as you may/will spend hours in this position.

Redflea
11-07-2006, 09:05 PM
Thanks, Gotwheels...I mis-read your answer, and didn't realize that was the total height you were referring to. That's great, I didn't realize it would be so short w/the arm down.

Taking the easy way out....some potential stand options from a quick look at Ikea:

http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?topcategoryId=15564&catalogId=10103&storeId=12&productId=14645&langId=-1&categoryId=16229&chosenPartNumber=70011793

http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?topcategoryId=15564&catalogId=10103&storeId=12&productId=15089&langId=-1&categoryId=16229&chosenPartNumber=74631807

http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?topcategoryId=15564&catalogId=10103&storeId=12&productId=34769&langId=-1&categoryId=16229&chosenPartNumber=20035918

Or this one has great character ( :) )...with a little extra bracing and removing a little of the trim on top it would be a classy looking cart...

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-9/qid=1162961009/ref=sr_1_9/602-9684651-9296608?ie=UTF8&asin=B000AVJ0TQ

Or this for a more understated look:

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-6/qid=1162961142/ref=sr_1_6/602-9684651-9296608?ie=UTF8&asin=B000G7M1ZO

This looks like it could be the best of all of them...could screw on a wider top and figure a way to attach the base of the Alpha Pioneer DC to the top...

http://www.bargainoutfitters.com/cb/cb.asp?a=236650&pn=1&kwtid=3647

This is kinda fun... ;)

iconoclast
11-07-2006, 09:05 PM
Redflea,
Are you still looking for a stringer? I have a Gamma x6fc that is about a year old. Did about 12 frames with it. Upgrading to a crank. Thanks


Let me know how much you're thinking about. Also, where are you located?

Thanks,

Redflea
11-07-2006, 09:22 PM
OK, Varuscelli, I just found this thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=125036&highlight=stringing+machine+stand

Since you got your beast, you're gonna have to agree to sell me one of those hospital bed tables, dude!! :)

varuscelli
11-07-2006, 09:46 PM
OK, Varuscelli, I just found this thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=125036&highlight=stringing+machine+stand

Since you got your beast, you're gonna have to agree to sell me one of those hospital bed tables, dude!! :)

Ha! I was going to give you a link to that thread so that it might trigger some other ideas for you. After I thought about the hospital table more, though, I started to think it might not have the overall stability you'd need. That's an awful lot of weight to put on top of it. I was going to wait until I got a TT model, then test it out, but I do worry about the lack of support on the open end.

But here's another idea. If you have a used office furniture place anywhere near you, go check it out. The seedier and more warehouse-like the place is (and the worse the part of town that it's in) the better your finds will be. I've got a place I used to go on occasion when I needed the odd file cabinet or small table, and they would nearly always have something to meet my need. And cheap. $15, $20 for a nice piece of furniture that would go for 10 times that new. I once bought a $2000 electronically operated drafting/light table for my photo business at that place for $150. My bet it that you could find a perfect table for a TT stringing machine in a place like that. Just a thought, but it's one of the first things that popped into my head when it came to buying and modifying something for my own use. (That's exactly how I ran across those hospital overbeds.) Just a thought, anyway. ;)

Redflea
11-07-2006, 10:04 PM
Good ideas...I'll see what I can locate locally. My stepfather used to be in the valuation biz (valuing plant and equipment for businesses) so I'm sure he'll know where in town to find that kind of thing... :)

varuscelli
11-07-2006, 10:30 PM
Good ideas...I'll see what I can locate locally. My stepfather used to be in the valuation biz (valuing plant and equipment for businesses) so I'm sure he'll know where in town to find that kind of thing... :)

Yeah, he ought to know. You'll be looking for something like an "office salvage" place or "furniture salvage" business. They typically get stuff by the truckload from places that have gone out of business or places that are bringing in new furniture and getting rid of old and such. Kind of like a flea market for bigger items like furniture for businesses, schools, hospitals, etc.

Another thing that would likely be easy to find and possibly good for a stand would be an old dot matrix printer stand. Something you can easily get close to and get your feet up under while you're working (kind of like working at a floor standing model). There are all kinds of designs of these, typically with shelves that can be removed or reconfigured.

Here's an example for "idea" purposes:

http://www.ergoindemand.com/images/41_classic_stand_orig_201.jpg

There are also taller versions for those who might need something taller (and I'm sure some of them can even be raised).

http://www.ergoindemand.com/images/41_adjustable_stand_orig_201.jpg

Redflea
11-07-2006, 10:43 PM
I had one of those in my office years ago.... :) Pretty funny, never thought I'd be looking for a dot matrix printer stand again...thanks!

jonolau
11-07-2006, 11:01 PM
I'm too sure about the Alpha, but my Gamma had 8 screw-thread holes on the base: 4 in each corner, and 4 in the middle for bolting onto the optional stand.

The 4 corners had screw-on rubber stands. To get it to sit flush onto the table top, I moved 2 from one edge to the centre holes. That left 2 centre holes available to bolt the machine onto a bedside table which I'd purchased brand new from IKEA for US$40. It even has a drawer for my to place my tools. The height of the table is about 70cm.

I have wooden teak parquet flooring in my bedroom, and to prevent scratches when I drag the table about, I placed Magiglide (http://www.magiglide.com/) on the foot of the table legs and I can easily lug it around the room without leaving any marks. Mind you, I'm more anal about the flooring than my wife, and it has so far lived up to all expectations.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d183/jonolau/stringer.jpg

Court_Jester
11-08-2006, 12:00 AM
Thanks...so standard table height is probably the way to go, then? Or if you had the option, would you have preferred it higher? I'm 6'2", by the way...
Not for your case, I'm afraid. You're going to need a higher table/platform. My old String Pal has the same height as the Pioneer DC Plus and I remember leaning over quite a bit while stringing and I'm not as tall as you. :(

Redflea
11-08-2006, 07:42 AM
Not for your case, I'm afraid. You're going to need a higher table/platform. My old String Pal has the same height as the Pioneer DC Plus and I remember leaning over quite a bit while stringing and I'm not as tall as you. :(

Thanks...should be interesting. If I get a tall enough rolling stand, I'll need to make sure that w/50lbs on top of it that it is stable enough to be safe. Don't want to to accidentally tip it over onto my toes or kids or floor. :)

I'm going to drop my my club or local shop and look at their freestanding machines and see how their height feels as a guide.

Hmmmm...looks like I may have to take a week or so off from work to figure this all out... ;)

Redflea
11-08-2006, 07:58 AM
I'm too sure about the Alpha, but my Gamma had 8 screw-thread holes on the base: 4 in each corner, and 4 in the middle for bolting onto the optional stand.

The 4 corners had screw-on rubber stands. To get it to sit flush onto the table top, I moved 2 from one edge to the centre holes. That left 2 centre holes available to bolt the machine onto a bedside table which I'd purchased brand new from IKEA for US$40. It even has a drawer for my to place my tools. The height of the table is about 70cm.

I have wooden teak parquet flooring in my bedroom, and to prevent scratches when I drag the table about, I placed Magiglide (http://www.magiglide.com/) on the foot of the table legs and I can easily lug it around the room without leaving any marks. Mind you, I'm more anal about the flooring than my wife, and it has so far lived up to all expectations.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d183/jonolau/stringer.jpg

Thanks for the pic, Jonolau. Looks nice. I showed it to my wife, and she made it clear to me that no legal precedent had been set. :(

varuscelli
11-08-2006, 08:09 AM
Thanks...should be interesting. If I get a tall enough rolling stand, I'll need to make sure that w/50lbs on top of it that it is stable enough to be safe. Don't want to to accidentally tip it over onto my toes or kids or floor.

When I was toying around with ideas about a small table/workbench for a TT machine, I kept thinking that some kind of adjustable height option would be ideal. Small, sturdy table with some kind of incremental adjustment (much like one of those hospital overbed tables) so that whoever used the machine could adjust it to proper height for themselves. Might be a consideration if your son learns to use the machine, too (that is, if he's not already as tall as you are). And if you put your wife to work stringing racquets on the late shift, she'll need to be comfortable, too. ;)

There are quite a few options for that sort of thing available. The trick is to find one that doesn't cost you as much as the stringing machine did (seriously) -- or more!.

Redflea
11-08-2006, 10:10 PM
Well...the Alpha Pioneer DC is arriving tomorrow or Friday, so I decided I didn't have time to be too picky, so.....tah-dah!

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-7/qid=1163051774/ref=sr_1_7/602-9684651-9296608?ie=UTF8&asin=B000BC2D6Q

Just assembled it. It's made of decent quality chrome steel for the price ($48.00US), and is surprisingly stable. Assembly just took a few minutes, and the shelves can be repositioned easily if I decide I want to adjust them later. Dimensions are: 34.5Hx21Wx15L. (All inches, forgive this metric challenged American.)

Though it claims max weight for the top level to be 22lbs, I got up on it (I'm about 200lbs) and it didn't sag or sway, so I think it will do the trick, at least in the short run. I will have to be careful when using it, as it will obviously be very top-heavy w/the Alpha perched on top. Height looks like it may be OK...I'll have to see how it goes when it's all put together and have a racquet in place.

The top board isn't attached, so I'm going to drill some holes through it to attach it to the metal top shelf it sits on w/some ties or bolts, and will drill holes through it so that I can bolt the Alpha Pioneer DC to it (assuming there are bolt holes in the base).

All in all I'm pleased, plenty of storage, locking wheels, and will fit nicely in the section of our entry-way closet that I've claimed for my tennis gear. (I don't get much closet space, but what I get is MINE! ;)

I think longer-run I'm going to want something like the dot-matrix stands, especially if I can find one where the height is adjustable for my son's benefit.

Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas...they helped me get to this interim solution quickly, and I appreciate it!

Redflea
11-08-2006, 10:22 PM
They also have this one, rated to 250lbs! :)

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-11/qid=1163052903/ref=sr_1_11/602-9684651-9296608?ie=UTF8&asin=B000063SI0

varuscelli
11-09-2006, 07:10 AM
Well...the Alpha Pioneer DC is arriving tomorrow or Friday, so I decided I didn't have time to be too picky, so.....tah-dah!

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-7/qid=1163051774/ref=sr_1_7/602-9684651-9296608?ie=UTF8&asin=B000BC2D6Q


Just curious as to how you think the wheels on this one will do once the weight of the stringing machine is resting on it full-time. Are they pretty sturdy seeming wheels? And no foreseeable problem for your floors or anything?

Looks like a very versatile cart for the price, that's for sure. Hope it will work well for you! ;)

Redflea
11-09-2006, 07:50 AM
Just curious as to how you think the wheels on this one will do once the weigh of the stringing machine is resting on it full-time. Are they pretty sturdy seeming wheels? And no foreseeable problem for your floors or anything?

Looks like a very versatile cart for the price, that's for sure. Hope it will work well for you! ;)

You are correct...that's one concern area, definitely. The cart didn't appear to have a problem holding my weight, but I wasn't rolling it around. The wheels screw in w/a steel bolt that is about 1 1/2 inches long, into a concave threaded channel in the bottom of the legs (also steel) so it is much stronger than one would expect from how it looks.

I'm going to stop by the local Home Depot/Lowes today and see what they have in the way of replacement wheels, as well as look for a strap that I may wrap around the frame to add stability if it looks like it needs it once the machine is on it. As for the floors, the wheels don't look "dangerous" but you can bet I'll be watching it carefully. Our floors belong to my wife, I only rent them. ;)

When reality (the Alpha) arrives, it could turn out this thing just can't handle it, and in that case I'll have to go to plan B, which (short-term) might be to the other cart rated to 250 lbs...bigger than I want (33.5Hx22.5Wx13.25D". ), but would be fine for a while. :)

varuscelli
11-09-2006, 08:44 AM
When I was looking at something to put a TT stringing machine on, I must have bookmarked 25 different options. Never found exactly the thing I wanted (especially at the price I was willing to pay). Ideally, I would have morphed two or three different options into one "perfect" option (perfect for me, that is).

Some of my Google searches turned up tons of hits for things like cart, utility cart, adjustable height cart, adjustable height utility cart, workbench, rolling workbench, rolling cabinet, rolling cabinet workbench, utility table, adjustable utility table....etc., etc., etc.

The problem that I found was that most of the options that made me say "Wow, that would work," also made me say "Wow, expensive." But there's some really cool stuff out there with shelves, drawers, closable cabinet doors, nice maneuverability, adjustable height (some with crank adjustments, some even pneumatic).

I think it would be interesting to see a whole new thread dedicated to types of tables (work surfaces) that are ideal for TT stringing machines. Solutions people have come up with on their own and what they have bought off the shelf. With as often as the topic must come up here, it could be a helpful thing (maybe even a sticky for this forum, you never know).

Redflea
11-09-2006, 08:47 AM
When I was looking at something to put a TT stringing machine on, I must have bookmarked 25 different options. Never found exactly the thing I wanted (especially at the price I was willing to pay). Ideally, I would have morphed two or three different options into one "perfect" option (perfect for me, that is).

Some of my Google searches turned up tons of hits for things like cart, utility cart, adjustable height cart, adjustable height utility cart, workbench, rolling workbench, rolling cabinet, rolling cabinet workbench, utility table, adjustable utility table....etc., etc., etc.

The problem that I found was that most of the options that made me say "Wow, that would work," also made me say "Wow, expensive." But there's some really cool stuff out there with shelves, drawers, closable cabinet doors, nice maneuverability, adjustable height (some with crank adjustments, some even pneumatic).

I think it would be interesting to see a whole new thread dedicated to types of tables (work surfaces) that are ideal for TT stringing machines. Solutions people have come up with on their own and what they have bought off the shelf. With as often as the topic must come up here, it could be a helpful thing (maybe even a sticky for this forum, you never know).

Great minds...I'm creating it right now, will post it in just a minute.... :)

Redflea
11-09-2006, 08:55 AM
Here's the link to the new thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=1054534#post1054534

varuscelli
11-09-2006, 09:07 AM
Here's the link to the new thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=1054534#post1054534

That ought to work. ;)

Now I'll see if I can consolidate some of the things I bookmarked.

Redflea
11-09-2006, 04:19 PM
It's arrived...just assembled...it is a thing of beauty in person. Nice!

varuscelli
11-09-2006, 04:40 PM
Whoa! Server error?

varuscelli
11-09-2006, 04:42 PM
Whoa! Server error?

varuscelli
11-09-2006, 04:49 PM
It's arrived...just assembled...it is a thing of beauty in person. Nice!

By midnight tonight I'll expect to read how your first racquet went. ;)

Ahh, just like Christmas. :)

Redflea
11-09-2006, 05:25 PM
Unfortunately I'm working until my evening match, then working again after my evening match...I suspect it's going to be the weekend before I give it my first shot...

Very nervous/excited about it.

jonolau
11-09-2006, 05:44 PM
That's a really great looking cart, redflea. You must post pictures of your finished piece of art when you're done. What I really like are the storage baskets at the bottom where you can store your strings and tools. I've got my tools in a small toolbox which I place at the bottom of my table.

varuscelli
11-09-2006, 06:22 PM
Unfortunately I'm working until my evening match, then working again after my evening match...I suspect it's going to be the weekend before I give it my first shot...

Plus (and Jon needs to know this) Grey's Anatomy is on tonight. :p

(My wife is watching it as I type...) :)

Redflea
11-09-2006, 08:24 PM
Back from my match, played miserably...overall, I have just sucked way too much since coming back from my back injury. Had a few hits where I thought i was coming back to my old form, but too many where I completely stink. I'm thinking a few restringing jobs will work out the kinks in my groundstrokes... :)

Yeah, Jonolau, the cart has turned out to be surprisingly nice fit w/the Alpha. The Alpha fits on top like the cart was made for it, the baskets give me plenty of room to store stuff, and Imay add some hooks to so I can hang racquets from the side. I've rolled it around and it seems perfectly stable. I could end up staying w/this setup. The height is just about perfect...standing up, the racquet height in the machine is where my arms are when my arm is bent and my forearm is parallel to the floor...

I think I'm going to cut out the strings in one of my M-Fils and do that one first...gonna try a lower tension than I have been w/one of the free strings that Alpha sent. The directions that come w/the Alpha are not sufficient for a newbie...they assume some previous knowledge of stringing and stringing terms, at least more than I have...I'm going to have to read other sources and the one of the pros at our club offered to help me w/my first racquet, which was nice of him.

Redflea
11-09-2006, 08:24 PM
Plus (and Jon needs to know this) Grey's Anatomy is on tonight. :p

(My wife is watching it as I type...) :)

Gotta finish my work soon! I hope they have a stringing scene tonight that I can learn from... ;)

varuscelli
11-09-2006, 08:43 PM
Gotta finish my work soon! I hope they have a stringing scene tonight that I can learn from... ;)

Have you watched that stringing clip on the SP Tennis website? Not a drop-weight stringing machine, but still...you might be interested if you haven't seen it. I can provide the link if you don't know where it is. There's also another on the USRSA site, if I'm not mistaken (that has tie-ins to the SP Tennis site video, I think). Kind of neat to watch...maybe 20 minutes worth of a racquet being strung, end-to-end.

Redflea
11-09-2006, 08:50 PM
Yeah...I'm on the SPtennis site right now. But the wife is watching Ugly Betty, so I'm not allowed to make any noise... ;)

varuscelli
11-09-2006, 08:58 PM
Yeah...I'm on the SPtennis site right now. But the wife is watching Ugly Betty, so I'm not allowed to make any noise... ;)

Headphones! Go find 'em! :)

jonolau
11-09-2006, 10:10 PM
Plus (and Jon needs to know this) Grey's Anatomy is on tonight. :p

(My wife is watching it as I type...) :)

Great .... no stringing tonight, then.

Redflea
11-10-2006, 12:46 AM
:) Posted a thread w/my "out of the box" results w/the Alpha....

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=104946