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View Full Version : When HEAD Made Racquets In Austria or Broke Back Kennelbach


vsbabolat
11-17-2006, 06:37 AM
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vsbabolat
11-17-2006, 06:39 AM
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joe sch
11-17-2006, 07:14 AM
Sounds like the St Vincent story ...

Why is it if materials keep improving, process and quality control keep improving, the rackets produced in China are now considered inferior ?

vsbabolat
11-17-2006, 07:35 AM
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Pro_Tour_630
11-17-2006, 08:59 AM
thanks for the typing VS, when they went to china they droped the twaron because it was expensive

vsbabolat
11-17-2006, 10:39 AM
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stormholloway
11-17-2006, 11:01 AM
There are some concerns with Chinese made racquets. Often times, people will find pieces of rice infused into the graphite. This has been a serious problem lately.

Pro_Tour_630
11-17-2006, 04:29 PM
There are some concerns with Chinese made racquets. Often times, people will find pieces of rice infused into the graphite. This has been a serious problem lately.


Heard it was a conspiracy by the austrians, you know 9/11 type ;-)

joe sch
11-18-2006, 02:36 PM
What better materials is HEAD using now? How is outsourcing to China improved the manufacturing process or improved the quality of HEAD racquets? HEAD really does not think so, because HEAD is still Manufacturing 50,000 racquets (Prestige Classic 600, Pro Tour 630, and LM Instincts) a year in Kennelbach for the Players on Tour.

I actually prefer the older materials including the lowmod graphite. Also, the more expensive mixers like twaron and kevlar improved the sticks, IMO. I also think the quality control and manufacturing are probably superior in Austria. My post was also asking these same questions. The rackets from Austria are probably more expensive so the mass purchased orders goto China. Makes me wonder where the real player rackets are coming from ?

vsbabolat
11-18-2006, 02:47 PM
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ClimbK2
12-01-2006, 06:18 AM
Outsourcing to China does not necessarily mean lower quality. My experience with manufacturing quality in the auto industry leads me to believe the critical factor is the company, not the specific country. If the company has a good, well documented manufacturing process, that can eventually be moved anywhere.

The real quality issue I suspect is with outsourcing or changes to materials. Head may well have someone else make the racquets for them in China to their specs (perhaps Pro-Kennex?). Perhaps an accountant also saw some material cost savings. I'm curious if anyone knows the real facts.

Note that the Liquidmetal Radical is $80 at TW -- a good deal made possible by mfg. in China.

vsbabolat
12-01-2006, 09:52 AM
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sureshs
12-01-2006, 10:22 AM
That is how outsourcing works. Design and critical and low-volume prototyping work is done in the country of origin, while mass manufacturing and repetitive activities like testing are moved to where labor is cheaper. Once a prototype is proven, its mass production is outsourced, and the cycle continues.

When the product is outsourced, decisions are made regarding cost. The finest materials and tightest quality control can be used for prototypes or for special customers, but for mass manufacture the cost must be reduced. Often, the work is done by a factory not belonging to the company. The quality will depend on how much the (original) company is willing to spend, and if it makes sense for the product and the market. The quality control standards when an auto maker starts an overseas plant will be much much higher than for a racquets company, due to the safety and liability issues involved.

vsbabolat
12-01-2006, 10:55 AM
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sureshs
12-01-2006, 12:21 PM
sureshes, My point is HEAD was the manufacture in Austria until last year. Head then hired it's OEM to produce 100% of it's consumer line of racquets in China. The cost to the consumer did not go down but HEAD's profit margins increased. While HEAD does not believe it's OEM is good enough to produce the 50,000 Prestige Classic 600, Pro Tour 630, and Liquidmetal Instinct needed for Players on Tour to use. Therefore HEAD manufactures those racquets themselves in Austria for the Pro players on Tour.

I am not disagreeing with you, just saying that is the trend.

Usually prices go down, but that depends on the competition. If other companies sell their latest-model China-made racquets for $179, Head will do that too.

To break that cycle, one of these companies or a new one should start selling for much less. The big companies will fight the concept in the beginning, but will eventually have to reduce the prices.

When I bought my son a violin for his school lessons, I paid $300 for a Chinese one. European ones were much more expensive, even for the entry models. This was 1.5 years ago. Last week, I saw a Chinese violin (with case) being sold at Target for $85! The music store woman (who tunes his violins) reacted badly when I pointed it out - those are crappy, I can't even tune them, etc. But guess what? One of my son's classmates who just started violin showed up to class with one of those, and the teacher says it is quite OK.

Something like that has to happen to new-model racquets. You can always get old models cheap though - I paid $20 for my first racquet at a sporting good store.

Regarding pros getting Austrian-made models: a similar thing has been happening even with China-made racquets. I have heard that the racquets give to pros are hand-selected to be close to the specs. Then, the pros get it customized further. People even say that manufacturers make special batches in China with different weighting for some pros. Head may have decided it is easier to manage this process closer to home - they don't have to measure umpteen racquets from China to select good ones, or supervise special batches made there.

HLM2
01-16-2007, 06:07 PM
Old thread I dug up but I'm considering buying a second LM Rad. MP, as I already have one (China).
Will Made in China ones play the same as other Made in china ones?
I can relate the the slightly hollow feeling, but more so on my OS than MP.
I put a rather stretchy or softer string on it (Wilson Stamina, dont know specs, just feels stretchy at same tensions as other syn. guts), and my MP hits pretty nicely.
Is it worth it to spend an extra 80 dollars on an Austria one?

vsbabolat
01-16-2007, 06:26 PM
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JW10S
01-16-2007, 08:15 PM
Don't forget that HEAD's market share has increased dramatically from the days prior to the Titanium craze when they were known as primarily player's racquets and only made a half dozen or so different models. The HEAD line of racquets has expanded greatly to the point where the Austrian factory cannot keep up. The Chinese as well as the Czech plant make racquets that meet HEAD's standard's. The Austrian plant makes many of the older frames that many of the pros have been using since they were in juniors and do not wish to replace, despite what new technologies are available to them--they wish to stay in their comfort zone. Most racquet compaines have multiple plants and HEAD's quality control has not suffered at all with their outsourcing.

superstition
01-16-2007, 11:03 PM
The latest Chinese Prostaff 85 I have isn't as good as the older ones, but it's OK with lead.

vsbabolat
01-17-2007, 06:56 AM
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JW10S
01-17-2007, 02:00 PM
HEAD's Market share has not increased at all it has stayed the same. Absolutely false. A couple times in the last 1/2 dozen years or so HEAD has ended the year #1 and even if they are currently #3 they sell far more racquets now world wide than they did 10 years ago. I'm talking about % of racquets, not just rank.

vsbabolat
01-17-2007, 02:36 PM
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JW10S
01-17-2007, 06:38 PM
As a contract player a lot of my racquets come from Austria, but not all of them--some come from the Czech plant and some from China. I feel little or no difference between any of them. There is no drop in quality control in my experience.

tandayu
01-17-2007, 07:19 PM
As a contract player a lot of my racquets come from Austria, but not all of them--some come from the Czech plant and some from China. I feel little or no difference between any of them. There is no drop in quality control in my experience.

What year were you sponsored, and was it college level or pro level?
Maybe you can share more of your experiences especially with Head.

HLM2
01-18-2007, 09:03 AM
Thats so strange everyone has been making it sound like the Chinese ones and austrian ones felt like a different racquet.

JW10S
01-18-2007, 12:55 PM
What year were you sponsored, and was it college level or pro level?
Maybe you can share more of your experiences especially with Head.I am still sponsored.

Pro_Tour_630
01-18-2007, 02:32 PM
Alex, with all respect to our inhouse Head contract players, maybe it is in thier contract to say they have to like the last model, dunno, but how can we discuss with someone who says this


I've owned and played with every model Prestige Mid made. There is very little difference between any of them in my view. Any small differences between the various progressions of the racquet had no effect at all on my game and did not require any real transition period. The head sizes and string patterns of the Prestiges are essentially the same. Flex and weight have varied little. In other words, if you like one Prestige you'd be able to play with any of them with no difference in your game. I'm not one to wax nostalgic over racquets that were made 10 years ago. I like the FXP very much, just as I like the rest that led up to it.

then this

For me the FXP Prestige feels better than the LM.

if there are little differences then it must have been enough to like one over the other, I don't get it ?!?!? imagine how a prestige made in the late 80's would feel vs a prestige made in 2006

then there is that PC600mid XL ;-) sure it plays more or less like the FXPmid of 2006, just like a PD plays more or less like a PD+, yeah sure tell that to roddick and lets see if he can serve as well as he does with a PD

JW10S
01-18-2007, 07:15 PM
Alex, with all respect to our inhouse Head contract players, maybe it is in thier contract to say they have to like the last model, dunno, but how can we discuss with someone who says this




then this



if there are little differences then it must have been enough to like one over the other, I don't get it ?!?!? imagine how a prestige made in the late 80's would feel vs a prestige made in 2006

then there is that PC600mid XL ;-) sure it plays more or less like the FXPmid of 2006, just like a PD plays more or less like a PD+There is no contradiction in my two statements you quoted. I said if you like one Prestige you'll like them all--that's true. And yes, I like the feel of the FXP better than the LM, but not enough so to make any difference in my game. Give me either one and I'll still beat you. I like red cars better than black cars, does that imply I think red cars are better? Of course not. I do not adhere to the notion that I am a good player because of the racquet I use. I laugh out loud when I read posts where people say 'I can't hit a backhand return--what racquet should I use?'

I'd be willing to wager that many of the people commenting here about the 'good old days' of the Prestige never even played with one of them--I have. As I stated above, the early Prestiges had the same head size, same string pattern, and essentially the same weight and flex of the current model. The little tweeks HEAD has made to the Prestige over the years has improved the racquet in my view, but have not made a big enough of a difference to make them feel like totally different racquets. Just as the racquets being manufactured in the different factories (under the same tolerances) don't feel like different racquets. I've at times had racquets from the different plants in my bag and I just reach in a grab one to play a match without looking (or being at all concerned about) where is was manufactured. In the end it's me who hits the ball, not the racquet.

tandayu
01-18-2007, 07:31 PM
JW10S, Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope you did not say it because you are still being sponsored now.

Surely, different people has different preference which makes the discussion interesting.

However, one ATP player that was in the main draw of AO now, told me 2 years ago, that for him the LM Prestige is below par (I edited his word) in comparison to the Austrian PC600. So last year he was back using the PJ.

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 04:30 AM
I said if you like one Prestige you'll like them all--that's true. And yes, I like the feel of the FXP better than the LM. I'd be willing to wager that many of the people commenting here about the 'good old days' of the Prestige never even played with one of them--I have. As I stated above, the early Prestiges had the same head size, same string pattern, and essentially the same weight and flex of the current model. The little tweeks HEAD has made to the Prestige over the years has improved the racquet in my view, but have not made a big enough of a difference to make them feel like totally different racquets. Just as the racquets being manufactured in the different factories (under the same tolerances) don't feel like different racquets.

False, if you like one particular prestige chances are you will not like some of the others and stick only to that particular one (everyone is playing with PC600 paint jobs, and PT630 paint jobs, why?!?!)Yes you can play with any of them or any other racquet on the planet for that matter and beat me, but that is not the question. The question is feel. They all FEEL very different, some are closer to one another in terms of feel but most are very different. WHY ??? BECAUSE THEY HAVE DIFFERENT COMPOSITION. I don't need to beat anyone to make me feel good in playing tennis, I feel good playing tennis when I FEEL the ball striking the racquet. One poster here is a collector and has more than few of every prestige ever made. I would wager he knows more than you about the prestige and he is only a 3.0 player. YOU DONT NEED TO BE A 6.0 TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. You can beat him with a broom stick. You OTOH are a sponsored HEAD player who NEEDS to play with the latest head stick and you have to say you like it and try to push it. It is in your contract. When you are out of contract with HEAD you can come back and tell us how they all play very different, it is ok.

Believe it or not there is a poster particularly here on this thread as well who not only knows more than you regarding the prestige but can beat your 5.5 and my 5.0 fannies together, no need to name who he is. We asked you for your ranking and you only said you are a sponsored player. My 14 your old niece is a sponsored player.

one last remark: if you are playing in a tourney against an equal opponent, one of your matched FXP prestige is strung with 15g POLY at 70lbs and the second FXP prestige is strung with 18g natural gut a 50lbs, don't you think that they will play very different and it is the same prestige and might be a factor in deciding the game on close points? same goes to the difference in the prestige lines over the years. Believe it or not some are more powerful than the others, some have different SW, some have different flex, some even have different length like the PC600XL's, and more important some have different composition and weight distribution, and what is the most important the graphite that was used 20 years ago is not the same graphite that is used today. They used to add TWARON to the frames for vibration dampening now the Prestige frames sound HOLLOW. Believe it or not some people play better due to a difference in SOUND and how the ball sounds when striking the string bed. For you it might not make a difference but to some it is like playing with a vibration dampener and not playing with one, there is a different ring and that might be enough for some to make a difference on close points. Try playing with earplugs where you can not hear the ball as it hits the string bed and tell me if it does not make a difference on close matches, I can't count how many close matches I lost because of difference in that sound. Hearing that "sound" gives you some confidence in your shots, it may be a "thumping" sound or it may be a pinging sound, whatever it is, it will affect the way you play, even if you dont know it.

I forgot different handle systemS!!!!!!!!!, like the trysis tour 300, that stick feels so mushy(I LOVE IT BY THE WAY) and very different than the very stiff and hollow sounding and much more powerfull FXP, these two stick are like NIGHT AND DAY IN TERMS OF FEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

znoopie
01-19-2007, 04:38 AM
I think different people have different levels of sensitivity. Not that I'm saying JW10S is insensitive but because if those racquets are really all the same (or very closely similar), why would the ATP players still need paintjobs?

JW10S
01-19-2007, 01:42 PM
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything--I'm just speaking from my prespective. I'm amused at how personally people here take things when someone dares to disagree with them. I'm not sure just what I wrote that got your panites in a bunch. You can go on and on about how the racquets are 'completely different' and I will continue to aver that there is very little difference, certainly not enough to effect how I play.

When I first started playing with Prestiges they were called the Prestige Pro, then they were called the Trisys, then the Prestige Tour 300, then the Prestige Classic, then the i.Prestige, then the Liquid Metal Prestige, and now the Flexpoint (I may even have forgotten one in there somewhere). I've played with (and still have) all of those models. Pick up any one of those and hit with them and there is absolutely no mistake that they are Prestiges. I could play with any of them--and play well. You can claim that your backhand down the line is much better with the K racquet vs. an ncode and I say my backhand down the line is not at all effected by which Prestige I use. A racquet is an inanimate object, it does nothing 'for' you. It's never my racquet's fault when I lose. I've played with them all and am giving my honest experience. As I said before, I'd wager that most of the posters who feel the need to comment on every single Prestige thread have not even played with them as I have--they're just on the bandwagon.

As for you example about strings, my strings and string tensions vary quite a bit depending on the conditions under which I will be playing. Never-the-less, the racquet itself is still the same racquet.

As for who I am, what my ranking is, who I've beaten or where I'm from and other questions that have been asked of me I will continue to ignore them. I have no avatar, no signature for a reason--I wish to remain anonymous. It's none of your business. And the fact that people are so concerned is a bit disturbing. One poster even started a whole thread to find out who I am--crazy. But suffice it to say that you're right--I could beat you with a broom.

If you don't like my opinions you can simply ignore them or disagree, but don't you dare say my opinions are false. I will let you have the last word since you apparently need it so badly.

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 01:54 PM
why dont you answer my question "(everyone is playing with PC600 paint jobs, and PT630 paint jobs, why?!?!)" which is the same as I think different people have different levels of sensitivity. Not that I'm saying JW10S is insensitive but because if those racquets are really all the same (or very closely similar), why would the ATP players still need paintjobs?

You can claim that your backhand down the line is much better with the K racquet vs. an ncode glad to see you have been reading my posts.

What I dont understand is first you say this

I'm amused at how personally people here take things when someone dares to disagree with them.

then you say dont you dare disagree with me or dare say my opinions are false which is the same thing, you are too funny,

If you don't like my opinions you can simply ignore them or disagree, but don't you dare say my opinions are false. I will let you have the last word since you apparently need it so badly.

I was using your kind of language as in post #21 Absolutely false.

maybe next time I will borrow from I respectfully disagree with you. so I will not hurt your feelings:-)


(I may even have forgotten one in there somewhere)

Huh? one?!?!? I will let Alex educate ( or "school" you, a better word you might understand) and refresh your memory, in the meantime, why don't you and Sean go and find yourself a room and play togther since thats all you do is play:-)

. I have no avatar, no signature for a reason--I wish to remain anonymous. .

at least you should write in your avatar or signature that you are sponsored by HEAD, so people can take your word about Head with a grain of salt, let alone a biased view

JW10S
01-19-2007, 02:38 PM
When vsbabolat said that HEAD had not increased market share that was an incorrect fact. Percentage wise HEAD sells more racquets world wide than they did a dozen years ago. My statment about liking Prestiges was not a fact, but an opinion, which I am entitled to. Big difference.

And again my long standing relationship with HEAD as well as my playing experience gives me a perspective that many others here who are all just talk don't have and can't give. Deal with it...

BTW in the past I've also had contracts with Wilson, Prince, and Dunlop/Slazenger.

Go work on that backhand down the line--I'm going to employ the ignore function...

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 03:11 PM
And again my long standing relationship with HEAD as well as my playing experience gives me a perspective that many others here who are all just talk don't have and can't give. Deal with it...

Except for vsbabolat, tandayu, and I, among others who also have a perspective about the subject and much more credible than you, you deal with it.

since you are sponsord by HEAD, read this over and over again and ask youself the same question over and over again, WHY????

http://investor.head.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=123990&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=699494&highlight=

"Head's global tennis operations will continue to be run from Austria. Key functions such as research and development, quality control, marketing and sales and logistics functions in the Racquet Sports Division, as well as a limited production of approximately 50,000 racquets will remain at the Kennelbach site. This entire set up will ensure that current quality standards will be maintained and Head will be able to retain its technological leadership."

since there are no difference and it makes no difference in terms of play,

besides for all we know you could be working for Head, read all your posts, most of them are just recent and all discuss and praise HEAD, or you are simply a washed up teaching pro, pathetic....

whatever happened to . I will let you have the last word since you apparently need it so badly.

and here I thought you are going to let me have the last word?

or

I'm going to employ the ignore function
which I doubt, you see JW10S, you are full of not only hot air but full of yourself,

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 04:18 PM
Our inbred, I mean, inhouse HEAD sponsor has just joined the forum one month ago and has posted over 200 posts (most kissing up to HEAD) , he is averaging more than 5 posts a day, I think he needs to hit the courts instead of talking to us gearheads to bring his game to the next level........... 3.5 that is :-)

please read this, it seems our Head sponsor poodle-Head(no pun intended) has been at this since he joined us one month ago, why are you here anyway?!?!?!?! I hope Head is paying you more than just giving you grips and strings and a few lousy new racquets

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=110194

I'm certainly not here to ask other people who I've never met, never will meet, and who have never seen me play, what racquet I should play with that's for sure. I'm one of the few who has control over their own life and can make decisions. So to answer your query I'm here strictly for the laugh factor...

then leave the forums.

Nah, you have no idea how amusing this mass insecurity is to me...

Please don't try to offend us. From what I've read you are/were a failing tennis player sponsored by HEAD. Sounds like you need to blow off a lot of steam, just not here.

the only one with insecurity issues here is you... why would you even reply to any us the posts if otherwise, just go on with your life, we'll go on with ours, who cares if people want help with their racquets. or do you just wanna come and showoff your sophisticated intelligence? insecurity? whatever, feel free to prove me right by responding with some kind of humorous defense mechanism, your welcome.

LOL!...yeah, right. I get all my racquets, clothes, shoes, strings, grips, hats, bags, etc. given to me because I'm 'a failing tennis player'. That's rich. Yes I play with HEAD, but I could be, and have been, sponsored by any number of other companies as I am constantly being solicited--something not many 'failing' players can boast. I use HEAD because I made up my own mind to do so. I didn't have to ask anyone else who I've never met or who have never seen me play. The fact that people took my posts so personally only proves my point.

I don't believe JW10S is Tursunov. If he is, I believe he would want to keep a fan support and encourage everyone to play the sport that pays his bills.
JW10S, I too have those things given to me (except the clothes and shoes, still working on that) but I love getting others opinions on racquets and other things. Just because you are a great player doesn't mean you know about the equipment. I am pretty sure that there was one time in your tennis-life that you relied on the suggestions from others to help make a decision on what to use.
If I am wrong.....then you are the greatest tennis player to ever be born, like Sampras & Federer put into one body.

If we all just made up our own minds and didn't need any advice from anyone else, there would be no need for this message board. Speaking of which, why are you here then?

johnathan smith
01-19-2007, 05:03 PM
Just couldn't drive myself to reading all of this (as interesting as it might be)
All I want to know is this.....is TW bringing back 630's with LM cosmetics :) ?
Do any of you guys have any of those for sale?
If so drop me a line.

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 05:32 PM
Just couldn't drive myself to reading all of this (as interesting as it might be)
All I want to know is this.....is TW bringing back 630's with LM cosmetics :) ?
Do any of you guys have any of those for sale?
If so drop me a line.


what does it matter john? they all play the same don't they?, just go and buy yourself the latest from HEAD like the FXP prestige MP, after all it is what our inhouse narsisist says

vsbabolat
01-19-2007, 06:42 PM
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jayserinos99
01-19-2007, 06:46 PM
vsbabolat (or anyone else that has experience with the Prestige 600), OT: how did you like the Prestige 600 (gray/green)? How does it compare with the Prestige Pro?

OnyxZ28
01-19-2007, 06:46 PM
vs, just a question, doesn't the twintube technology incorporate some sort of aramid fibre into one of the shells?

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 06:56 PM
I have played with the Graphite Pro, TXP, Prestige Pro, Elite Pro (the original green one out of the Prestige Pro mold), Elektra Pro (the original white and light sea foam out of the Prestige Pro mold), Prestige 600 ( with neon green C.A.P. System), Prestige Classic 600, i.Prestige 600, and Pro Tour 280/630. I owned but did not switch to Comp Pro, Trisys 300 600, Prestige Tour 300 mid, Prestige Tour 600 (still have two of these), LM Prestige, and FXP Prestige 600. I have nearly 20 years with these racquets.

In your expertise when playing a competative close match of someone equal or stronger than you, would you think that all these frames that you mentioned will have no effect on your game one way or another? that if they were all strung at the same setup, it will not matter one iotta that one would not give you one slight tinny bit advantage? thanks for your history, I cant wait for ALex to show us his collection

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 07:11 PM
vs, just a question, doesn't the twintube technology incorporate some sort of aramid fibre into one of the shells?

yeas, I heard that twinetube does incorporate some aramid in the shell. But the LMprestige MP vibrated to a point beyond annoyance, there was no consistency coming off the string bed. and the FXP MP also had that unpredictable pop with no feel, they both SOUND HOLLOW but I guess some people like that hollow feel.

Can you tell me if you do not feel a difference between your PC600XL and LM/FXP for example? Our inhouse Napolean wants us to believe they do not make a difference in play. Also are you looking to sell your PC600XL? thanks

vsbabolat
01-19-2007, 07:22 PM
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OnyxZ28
01-19-2007, 07:23 PM
Michael, I'll definitely be holding onto my precious PCXLs for a while, one of them has been worked on by RPNY in fact, even more untouchable. :D As for the general subject of the ongoing controversy, I do feel the difference between a PCXL and a PC600, but to me that's pretty obvious as the PCXL is an XL stick. To me a more relevant comparison would be the differences between the Prestige Pro/Prestige 600/PC600 Trek/PC600 Made in Austria/PC600 Deisigned in Austria/Classic Mid/PC600 Czech/i.Prestige first batch/i.Prestige later batch/LM Prestige/FP Prestige. In dividing the Prestiges into so many categories I guess I've already answered your Q, Michael, yes I do feel the differences between the different series of Prestiges (notably the current PC600, which is darned near unplayable without lead). But on the flipside, I can switch between different Prestiges (except the latest PC600) without too much adjustment. I'm definitely nowhere near a sponsored player (in fact, I'm sure they'd laugh their corporate @$$es off if I asked).

greg280
01-19-2007, 07:36 PM
this whole austrian thing has me baffled or ****ed off... after aquiring 2 star trek font p.c. in very good condition i was shocked at the bull**** quality control. strung weight on one was 11.8 and that was with the leather and poly, 16 no less. heralded frame number 2 weighed in at 12.1 strung, same setup. i thought the older ones were heavy, at least as much as the newer ones, just give me swingweight and i will be happy.then , austrian liquidmetal; rad mp., 10.9 strung to 11.6 strung both austrians, you know what? its the worst quality control issues i have ever seen and i have played at a pretty high level with a lot of the older frames, just seems the austrian thing is so friggan blown out of proportion its incredible, picked up my 4 hyper pro staffs and between 4 frames the variance was 1/10 of 1 ounce not freakin 7/10 of an ounce... wow! thats all gotta leave the keyboard and play some china , wilson tennis!!!!

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 08:35 PM
Michael, I'll definitely be holding onto my precious PCXLs for a while, one of them has been worked on by RPNY in fact, even more untouchable. :D As for the general subject of the ongoing controversy, I do feel the difference between a PCXL and a PC600, but to me that's pretty obvious as the PCXL is an XL stick. To me a more relevant comparison would be the differences between the Prestige Pro/Prestige 600/PC600 Trek/PC600 Made in Austria/PC600 Deisigned in Austria/Classic Mid/PC600 Czech/i.Prestige first batch/i.Prestige later batch/LM Prestige/FP Prestige. In dividing the Prestiges into so many categories I guess I've already answered your Q, Michael, yes I do feel the differences between the different series of Prestiges (notably the current PC600, which is darned near unplayable without lead). But on the flipside, I can switch between different Prestiges (except the latest PC600) without too much adjustment. I'm definitely nowhere near a sponsored player (in fact, I'm sure they'd laugh their corporate @$$es off if I asked).

Don't you think I don't know that the Xl PC is a less relevant comparission since it is 27.5, I just wanted to prove a point, read my post #27.
then there is that PC600mid XL ;-) sure it plays more or less like the FXPmid of 2006, just like a PD plays more or less like a PD+, yeah sure tell that to roddick and lets see if he can serve as well as he does with a PD

Our in house dudu thinks he can transition between all of the prestige line since the late 80's with ease, little did he know that there is a 27.5 out there which playes totally different thats all. thanks for helping me prove me point. By the way I would have cut the XL to 27.25, and YES .25 inches makes a big difference, especially on serves.

PrestigeClassic
01-19-2007, 08:38 PM
I detect some Prestige rage. Did these light-weights have Prestige Classic grommets or LM Prestige grommets? With the proper grommets, strung weights of old-font PC600's are around 12.2-12.4 ounces.

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 08:45 PM
this whole austrian thing has me baffled or ****ed off... after aquiring 2 star trek font p.c. in very good condition i was shocked at the bull**** quality control. strung weight on one was 11.8 and that was with the leather and poly, 16 no less. heralded frame number 2 weighed in at 12.1 strung, same setup. i thought the older ones were heavy, at least as much as the newer ones, just give me swingweight and i will be happy.then , austrian liquidmetal; rad mp., 10.9 strung to 11.6 strung both austrians, you know what? its the worst quality control issues i have ever seen and i have played at a pretty high level with a lot of the older frames, just seems the austrian thing is so friggan blown out of proportion its incredible,

thanks for proving to all of us that all the prestiges and pro tours that you bought all play different, they did **** you off so they must have affected your game one way or another. By the way are you still looking or have Kneissl's Toms

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 09:10 PM
I just want to inform uall about the latest big auction original authentic austrian PC600 that went for over $300 tonight and when the new FXP is sold for a 1/3 of the price., never mind the last austrian PC600 batch that can easily be acquired for 1/2 the price, WHY IS THAT? Hmmmmm?!?!?! hats off to whomever bought it, I have a good hunch whom that person might be ;-)

vsbabolat
01-19-2007, 09:18 PM
.................................................. ............

OnyxZ28
01-19-2007, 09:29 PM
Don't you think I don't know that the Xl PC is a less relevant comparission since it is 27.5, I just wanted to prove a point, read my post #27.


Our in house dudu thinks he can transition between all of the prestige line since the late 80's with ease, little did he know that there is a 27.5 out there which playes totally different thats all. thanks for helping me prove me point. By the way I would have cut the XL to 27.25, and YES .25 inches makes a big difference, especially on serves.


Oh man, you just convinced me to NEVER sell the PCXLs to you! ;) Blasphemy! The PCXLs are actually a bit longer than 27.5 -- they're 70 cm to be exact.

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 09:50 PM
Oh man, you just convinced me to NEVER sell the PCXLs to you! ;) Blasphemy! The PCXLs are actually a bit longer than 27.5 -- they're 70 cm to be exact.

ok I am sorry 27.5599, happy, I could not even imagine easily transitioning from the PC600XL to a 27 FXP, can you?

tandayu
01-19-2007, 09:53 PM
I detect some Prestige rage. Did these light-weights have Prestige Classic grommets or LM Prestige grommets? With the proper grommets, strung weights of old-font PC600's are around 12.2-12.4 ounces.

You are very right

tandayu
01-19-2007, 09:54 PM
I just want to inform uall about the latest big auction original authentic austrian PC600 that went for over $300 tonight and when the new FXP is sold for a 1/3 of the price., never mind the last austrian PC600 batch that can easily be acquired for 1/2 the price, WHY IS THAT? Hmmmmm?!?!?! hats off to whomever bought it, I have a good hunch whom that person might be ;-)

I wonder who.....

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 09:55 PM
There are frames listed that I liked the profrmance over others. I found a huge difference as a example between the Prestige Tour 600 and the Prestige Classic 600. They were night and day. Both nice racquets but I felt much better using the Prestige Classic 600.

thank you, then I think I can deduce from your post the following

I forgot different handle systemS!!!!!!!!!, like the trysis tour 300, that stick feels so mushy(I LOVE IT BY THE WAY) and very different than the very stiff and hollow sounding and much more powerfull FXP, these two stick are like NIGHT AND DAY IN TERMS OF FEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tandayu
01-19-2007, 09:56 PM
DO NOT FORGET....I STILL WANT THE reborn of PT630 with cap

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 10:01 PM
I wonder who.....

sorry I owe you a beer or something, I did not know that was you, had I known I would not have bid on the first auction, sorry my bad, I knew it:-( I should just listened to my instincts next time

Pro_Tour_630
01-19-2007, 10:02 PM
DO NOT FORGET....I STILL WANT THE reborn of PT630 with cap

over my dead body :-)

OnyxZ28
01-19-2007, 10:10 PM
ok I am sorry 27.5599, happy, I could not even imagine easily transitioning from the PC600XL to a 27 FXP, can you?



It depends; this is probably a testament to how terrible I am, but I can use a PC600 one day and the next day pick up a PCXL. But I can't switch on the fly, like say, using PC600 for one set and then a PCXL for the next set, or vice versa. But the adjustment period much longer than it is to switch between standard length Prestiges.

greg280
01-20-2007, 06:31 AM
hi michael, long time, how are you, yes i would be interested in your toms machine for sure, e-mail gjtellz09@hotmail.com.regarding weight diff. of grommets they were the original shiny brown caps , not the flat black l.m. caps, so prestige classics response to a possible reason why my trek fonts weight was 11.8 and the other 12.1, is to me, poor quality control.

vsbabolat
01-20-2007, 08:04 AM
.................................................. .....

vsbabolat
01-20-2007, 08:36 AM
vsbabolat (or anyone else that has experience with the Prestige 600), OT: how did you like the Prestige 600 (gray/green)? How does it compare with the Prestige Pro?

I liked the Prestige 600 better when I put the C.A.P. grommets on them (the Prestige 600 did not come with C.A.P. grommets it came with traditional TK 10 grommets but the C.A.P grommets could be bought separately at that time also the matte black TK 52 C.A.P. grommets from the LM Prestige mid will fit.) It will add some weight to the head of the racquet which is what I like. This is what I prefer and brought it closer to the weight of the Prestige Pro and how it played. To me the Prestige 600 had a slightly firmer feel to it compared to the Prestige Pro. Back in 91' I had friend who refused to use the Prestige 600 and hated it but loved and stayed with his Prestige Pro 600. He called the racquets completely different. I can't predict which one you will like, I think they are both very fine racquets in their own right.

Pro_Tour_630
01-20-2007, 09:39 AM
VS, there is about 15grams difference between the noncaped and caped prestige, that is equal to the difference of 15 points in SW and .5cm balance at least, I don’t know about our in-house slugger but I can not switch between the two during an intense match. It will throw my timing off especially on serve, I will double fault initially but it will take me some time to adjust to the difference in weight balance and SW, never mind feel.

As for the gray and green prestige, to me that was the worst one ever, just as bad as the FXP if not worse. To me it felt very metallicy; there was this annoying metallic ring at contact, like a golf ball hitting concrete. If the prestige pro is the Cadillac then the lime green/gray prestige is the yugo

vsbabolat
01-20-2007, 10:36 AM
Michael, I understand what you are saying about the Prestige 600. It is not my favorite Prestige and I would only use the Prestige 600 with C.A.P. grommets. I thought the C.A.P. helped a lot with that "ping" you described. The C.A.P. improved the feel and sound of the Prestige 600 to me. I was trying to be positive about the racquet. All of my racquets are customized to be the same weight, balance, and swing weight. When I used the Prestige 600 from Aug.91'-Feb.93' that is all I used. I could never switch back and forth between the Prestige 600 and Prestige Pro that would mess up my game I had become accustom to the Prestige 600.

To me the worst Prestige I ever hit with was the LM Prestige. Also one of the worst racquets I have ever hit with.

rorschack
04-15-2007, 06:24 PM
Michael, I understand what you are saying about the Prestige 600. It is not my favorite Prestige and I would only use the Prestige 600 with C.A.P. grommets. I thought the C.A.P. helped a lot with that "ping" you described. The C.A.P. improved the feel and sound of the Prestige 600 to me. I was trying to be positive about the racquet. All of my racquets are customized to be the same weight, balance, and swing weight. When I used the Prestige 600 from Aug.91'-Feb.93' that is all I used. I could never switch back and forth between the Prestige 600 and Prestige Pro that would mess up my game I had become accustom to the Prestige 600.

To me the worst Prestige I ever hit with was the LM Prestige. Also one of the worst racquets I have ever hit with.

The CAP made a HUGE difference on the Prestige 600 (silver/green), no doubt about that as I had just experienced it yesterday. It was night and day different. I know because it was my racket for 10+ years and always thought that it was way under powered, unstable, etc. But now, with the CAP and lower tension (51lb), I can feel that I am hitting heavy balls as I can see my opponent having trouble with the pace. The racket is stable on volley and ground stroke (no more twisting), and I can produce topspin whenever I intend to. I can hit all out now without reservation. If I need more power, I'll just lower the tension a bit more.

I was so surprised by the control because the ball went wherever I wanted to. I was thinking, maybe I just had a good day, but I doubted that. :) The feel was so nice that I almost double bagel my rival tennis partner who I have never beaten before. My control game picked up dramatically. I am sold! Now it's time to acquire some older Prestige's with Twaron. I wished I had made this discovery before I bought a couple of new techno rackets.

vsbabolat
04-15-2007, 07:22 PM
Congratulations rorschack! It is too bad HEAD only makes racquets with Twaron for the players on the ATP and WTA Tours now. Hopefully HEAD will come to their senses one day but I would not hold your breath.

xtennisloverx
06-20-2007, 03:32 PM
i saw this on amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Head-LIQUIDMETAL-RADICAL-Tennis-Racquet/dp/B0001J3V6K/ref=sr_1_15/103-7843559-3218214?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1182381775&sr=1-15

it is a "2004" liquidmetal radical MP

would this be made in austria or china?

vsbabolat
06-20-2007, 03:54 PM
i saw this on amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Head-LIQUIDMETAL-RADICAL-Tennis-Racquet/dp/B0001J3V6K/ref=sr_1_15/103-7843559-3218214?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1182381775&sr=1-15

it is a "2004" liquidmetal radical MP

would this be made in austria or china?

Most likely China. All of the LM Radical that TW is selling now are all made in China.

xtennisloverx
06-20-2007, 03:55 PM
but it was at a discounted price and it said 2004

vsbabolat
06-20-2007, 04:17 PM
but it was at a discounted price and it said 2004 If the racquets they are selling were really made in 2004 then they would be made in Austria. But HEAD has not quite discontinued the LM Radical yet. HEAD has been phasing it out the last few years and making them in China.

Is there away to contact them and ask them if the butt cap has a sticker that reads "made in Austria" or "made in China"
TW is still selling them and all are now made in China. http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage.html?PCODE=LMRAD

AlpineCadet
11-08-2007, 01:55 AM
When I first started playing with Prestiges they were called the Prestige Pro, then they were called the Trisys, then the Prestige Tour 300, then the Prestige Classic, then the i.Prestige, then the Liquid Metal Prestige, and now the Flexpoint (I may even have forgotten one in there somewhere). I've played with (and still have) all of those models. Pick up any one of those and hit with them and there is absolutely no mistake that they are Prestiges. I could play with any of them--and play well. You can claim that your backhand down the line is much better with the K racquet vs. an ncode and I say my backhand down the line is not at all effected by which Prestige I use. A racquet is an inanimate object, it does nothing 'for' you. It's never my racquet's fault when I lose. I've played with them all and am giving my honest experience. As I said before, I'd wager that most of the posters who feel the need to comment on every single Prestige thread have not even played with them as I have--they're just on the bandwagon.

You can switch between those rackets because you have spent time to become used to each of them, and can just always go back to what you remember. As for Michaels Chaho's case, he's just saying that out of all the rackets he's tried, the one he plays best with becomes the favorite of the bunch. Apples and Oranges. You can switch because you're used to using all of the Prestige line, and he can't because he's just stuck in one comfort zone.

D-Generated
11-08-2007, 02:18 AM
Can you tell me where to get the C.A.P. Grommets? I'm also a PC600 player and noticed a decrease in terms of 'touch' since I switched from the PS6.0.

lucu
11-08-2007, 05:30 AM
i saw alot of old HEAD racquets in the pro shop 2 days ago, that is still made in usa and belgium. the proshop just put them in the far corners...
one of the usa made is TXE (if i remember correctly) in white colour. the rest of belgium one , i can't remember, all the funny names, mostly 630, 660, 690.
are they any good? worthwhile to buy and keep ?

MichaelChang
11-08-2007, 05:35 AM
hi lucu where is that pro shop? :)

vsbabolat
11-08-2007, 06:43 AM
i saw alot of old HEAD racquets in the pro shop 2 days ago, that is still made in usa and belgium. the proshop just put them in the far corners...
one of the usa made is TXE (if i remember correctly) in white colour. the rest of belgium one , i can't remember, all the funny names, mostly 630, 660, 690.
are they any good? worthwhile to buy and keep ?

Head never made racquet in Belgium. Head made the racquets in AUSTRIA

MichaelChang
11-08-2007, 06:46 AM
hi vs I think they made some rackets in US in very early years, no? at least the AMF HEAD?

vsbabolat
11-08-2007, 06:50 AM
hi vs I think they made some rackets in US in very early years, no? at least the AMF HEAD?

Yes Head made racquets in the U.S. for the U.S. Market up until 1988. The racquets for the U.S. market were made in Boulder, Colorado.

lucu
11-08-2007, 01:19 PM
Head never made racquet in Belgium. Head made the racquets in AUSTRIA

sorry, my mistakes....
it is made in austria... and some in usa....
is it worth to buy it?

lucu
11-08-2007, 01:19 PM
hi lucu where is that pro shop? :)

in indonesia

ollinger
11-08-2007, 01:51 PM
Another racist thread about how Europeans are superior to the Asians they used to colonize. Racquets are far better finished now than they ever were, and with much more intricate graphics. The Slazenger and Davis racquets I used as a kid, made in Europe, had grotesque quality control with shafts that were VISIBLY different in width. Doubtless their weights were very different as well. Asians manufacture things. Get over it.

Pro_Tour_630
11-08-2007, 01:51 PM
You can switch between those rackets because you have spent time to become used to each of them, and can just always go back to what you remember. As for Michaels Chaho's case, he's just saying that out of all the rackets he's tried, the one he plays best with becomes the favorite of the bunch. Apples and Oranges. You can switch because you're used to using all of the Prestige line, and he can't because he's just stuck in one comfort zone.

thanks for the clarification. An interest in a PT630 made you dig this thread up? What do you think about all this? not sure if you tried a PC with CAP VS a PC without CAP or even a PT with CAP and and a PT280 without CAP. They swing completely different and can affect your timing, you might get used to one or the other in time but IMO you can't just pick one up and expect to play as well with it instantly when you were used to other

Pro_Tour_630
11-08-2007, 01:53 PM
Another racist thread about how Europeans are superior to the Asians they used to colonize. Racquets are far better finished now than they ever were, and with much more intricate graphics. The Slazenger and Davis racquets I used as a kid, made in Europe, had grotesque quality control with shafts that were VISIBLY different in width. Doubtless their weights were very different as well. Asians manufacture things. Get over it.

I thought you meant this is a racist thread towards gays:-) you know the title broke back.....as in the movie

maybe this thread you started inspired you

62 years ago today a plane took off from a South Pacific island carrying the atomic bomb to be dropped on Hiroshima, Japan, on August 6, 1945. That plane was the Enola Gay. Some have suggested that the name of the plane is of no special consequence, but other more perceptive types have wondered if this was an attempt by the United States government, perhaps even at the highest levels, to associate gay Americans with the horrific destruction of Hiroshima, with 100,000 fatalities and countless more debilitating injuries. Don't ask, because they surely won't tell.


With all the stuff coming out of china in regards to paint lead poisoning and now GHB in paint, I think Raffa should think twice before bitting his frame or he will go into a coma, don't you think? :-)

http://i19.tinypic.com/712f9m8.jpg

AlpineCadet
11-08-2007, 01:58 PM
I've briefly hit with the PT630's with and without CAPs. The added weight of the CAPs really does soften up the feel of the racket, but for some people, the weight is just too much to handle over a long period of playing. I do agree that those rackets come to life with lower tensions and thinner strings. I don't really enjoy the shape of Head grips, but I'm sure I can easily fix that problem. I just made a deal with Pleepers for a NEW PT630 from Austria for $160 shipped (not sure if I was ripped off or not. BTW, the racket doesn't come with a grip, even though he said it was a brand new racket.)

I replied to this thread because it just seemed like you guys were arguing about two different things, while no one was willing to agree to disagree.

Pro_Tour_630
11-08-2007, 02:16 PM
I've briefly hit with the PT630's with and without CAPs. The added weight of the CAPs really does soften up the feel of the racket, but for some people, the weight is just too much to handle over a long period of playing. I do agree that those rackets come to life with lower tensions and thinner strings. I don't really enjoy the shape of Head grips, but I'm sure I can easily fix that problem. I just made a deal with Pleepers for a NEW PT630 from Austria for $160 shipped (not sure if I was ripped off or not. BTW, the racket doesn't come with a grip, even though he said it was a brand new racket.)

I replied to this thread because it just seemed like you guys were arguing about two different things, while no one was willing to agree to disagree.
No, pleepers is a cool guy and the price is fair, he is playing the PD with Poly and these frames are not what he will like anyway.

As for JW10S do you agree with his statement which was the real argument. In other words all prestiges play the same and one can interchange between all of them with no difference in your game?!?!? similar to all Pro Staffs 85 are the same and one can interchange and play well with all of them with no difference in your game!!!!!!!

I've owned and played with every model Prestige Mid made. There is very little difference between any of them in my view. Any small differences between the various progressions of the racquet had no effect at all on my game and did not require any real transition period. The head sizes and string patterns of the Prestiges are essentially the same. Flex and weight have varied little. In other words, if you like one Prestige you'd be able to play with any of them with no difference in your game.

AlpineCadet
11-08-2007, 02:19 PM
No, pleepers is a cool guy and the price is fair, he is playing the PD with Poly and these frames are not what he will like anyway. I hope you're being fair with your conclusions.

As for JW10S do you agree with his statement which was the real argument. In other words all prestiges play the same and one can interchange between all of them with no difference in your game?!?!? similar to all Pro Staffs 85 are the same and one can interchange and play well with all of them with no difference in your game!!!!!!!

He is talking about himself and his own personal game. I agree with him 100% here, just like how I agree 100% about what you say about your personal game.

Pro_Tour_630
11-08-2007, 02:37 PM
He is talking about himself and his own personal game. I agree with him 100% here,

In other words, if you like one Prestige you'd be able to play with any of them with no difference in your game.

He did say YOU, not If I

and again here

I said if you like one Prestige you'll like them all--that's true.

am I missing something? I know English is my second language but.....

I am sorry I don't buy it: if you are used to one prestige you can play well and effective with any of them with no difference.


For me the FXP Prestige feels better than the LM.

if there are little differences then it must have been enough to like one over the other, I don't get it ?!?!? imagine how a prestige made in the late 80's would feel vs a prestige made in 2006

then there is that PC600mid XL ;-) sure it plays more or less like the FXPmid of 2006, just like a PD plays more or less like a PD+, yeah sure tell that to roddick and lets see if he can serve as well as he does with a PD

The Prestige classic 600 XL is a totally different racquet it is 27.75 and anybody that can play well with it with no adjustment coming from a 27 prestige is IMO a one in a kind individual like JW10S.

AlpineCadet
11-08-2007, 02:52 PM
I don't think it's worth arguing about because it's all subjective anyway.

Some ppl can adjust, while others just can't do that. There's a comfort zone that you are used to, and if it works well for you, so be it.

Pro_Tour_630
11-08-2007, 03:38 PM
I don't think it's worth arguing about because it's all subjective anyway.

Some ppl can adjust, while others just can't do that. There's a comfort zone that you are used to, and if it works well for you, so be it.

OK Everything is subjective then. I feel no difference between a 15 and a 18g, a tennis string is a string, I just wack them at any tension they all feel more or less the same. and BTW everyone listen to me I am an expert and many others here who are just talk dont have the experience I have and can't give.


And again my long standing relationship with HEAD as well as my playing experience gives me a perspective that many others here who are all just talk don't have and can't give. Deal with it...

kumat63
11-08-2007, 03:39 PM
It was interesting reading through this thread. I'd have to say Michael wins the argument though. He clearly has a more refined tennis pallate and notices subtle differences. Someone who thinks there's no real playing difference between a PC 600 and an FXP Prestige would probably think there's no difference between them and a Wilson N code 6.1 or Yonex RDX500--heck he'd probably "clean our clocks" with a Pure Drive! So with JW10S's "it's me not the racquet attitude" it kind of makes it hard for him to insist all Prestiges are really the same, doesn't it? Wouldn't all racquets of similar weight and flex (plus or minus 20 grams and 10 RDC points) really play the same to him?... It also doesn't explain all the PT630 paint jobs on tour now does it--if all Prestiges are really the same...

A question for Michael, back to the main point of the thread: you have Austrian made PT630 and Chinese made PT630. Is the tolerance to spec similar and do they play similarly? What is your experience on this? You seem in a good place to comment on the difference if any it makes whether the frames are made in Austria or China...

vsbabolat
11-08-2007, 03:47 PM
.................................................. ............

AlpineCadet
11-08-2007, 04:16 PM
OK Everything is subjective then. I feel no difference between a 15 and a 18g, a tennis string is a string, I just wack them at any tension they all feel more or less the same. and BTW everyone listen to me I am an expert and many others here who are just talk dont have the experience I have and can't give.

So now you're going to attack me (possibly) and give me those exaggerations? Look, he has his opinions and you have yours. The point is you are both right in this thread...but when someone starts making generalizations for other players, that's where that specific someone is most likely wrong.

blitzmage_89
11-08-2007, 04:47 PM
i have to say indeed most stuff made in china has lower quality than the ones made in their home country. Racquets arent 100% made on a conveyor belt , they are mostly made by labor. Cheap labor would usually result in less expertise on the manufacturing process though Im not saying that all things made in china are crap but as much as possible I avoid them. For example based from experience , a Japan-manufactured corolla lasted way way longer than a thailand made one. The thai-version had minor engine problem after 2 years.

Back then I'd stick to Yamaha (Japan-Singapore) or Winghart (Japan-Taiwan) but since both companies are gone you'de want to stick with Yonex if you want the most quality control.

Pro_Tour_630
11-08-2007, 04:52 PM
It was interesting reading through this thread. I'd have to say Michael wins the argument though. He clearly has a more refined tennis pallate and notices subtle differences. Someone who thinks there's no real playing difference between a PC 600 and an FXP Prestige would probably think there's no difference between them and a Wilson N code 6.1 or Yonex RDX500--heck he'd probably "clean our clocks" with a Pure Drive! So with JW10S's "it's me not the racquet attitude" it kind of makes it hard for him to insist all Prestiges are really the same, doesn't it? Wouldn't all racquets of similar weight and flex (plus or minus 20 grams and 10 RDC points) really play the same to him?... It also doesn't explain all the PT630 paint jobs on tour now does it--if all Prestiges are really the same...

A question for Michael, back to the main point of the thread: you have Austrian made PT630 and Chinese made PT630. Is the tolerance to spec similar and do they play similarly? What is your experience on this? You seem in a good place to comment on the difference if any it makes whether the frames are made in Austria or China...

I can not argue with someone who says "it is me who is winning not the racquet" Fine then we should close down this section of the forum and everyone should go and pick up any frame off the shelf they all play the same and it has not affect in your ability to win.

You bring up the issue of PJ prestiges. You are right, why do they even have PJ's prestiges since they all more of less play the same.

Just to highlight the differences between Austrian and Chinese, one is not better than the other. Some early batch chinese PT280 I liked very much. Later Chinese PT280 were heavy and stiffer, again some prefer a high SW BAT, I don't. Issue with me came in when I was customizing the PT. If the PT came in STOCK form heavy then there were less of a chance for me to make it work. Lighter Stock PT were easier to customize.

But to say that all PT's and Prestige MP's play alike that there is no difference is plain FALSE. Anyone that says otherwise should not be swinging one.


Nothing Head has come out so far from China compares to the PP, PP600, PC600, PT630, and so on that were made in Austria.

Hey you are generalizing, that is rubbish :-)

So now you're going to attack me (possibly) and give me those exaggerations? Look, he has his opinions and you have yours. The point is you are both right in this thread...but when someone starts making generalizations for other players, that's where that specific someone is most likely wrong.

sorry, I am not attacking you. Then we both are most likely wrong than right in this thread.

vsbabolat
11-08-2007, 06:06 PM
..............................................

gjoc
11-08-2007, 06:54 PM
Yonex has excellent quality. They are the last ones to still do the manufacturing of racquets themselves in-house at thier factory in Japan.

I’m not a huge Yonex fan, so I don’t follow them that closely, but that’s what I thought too...

The Head press release you referenced in a prior post, though (thanks for that, BTW), said, “Head is the only racquet manufacturer that still has its own production capacity” (April 2005).

Here is the announcement from HEAD saying consumer racquet production will be outsourced to China.

http://investor.head.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=123990&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=699494&highlight=

What do you make of that--did they just make a mistake, or is there something here that I’m missing?

vsbabolat
11-08-2007, 07:06 PM
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gjoc
11-08-2007, 07:29 PM
I give full marks to Yonex for staying in the racquet manufacturing business.

Same here.

That was a huge mistake by Head, IMO.

In their press release, I was surprised by how few people it took to generate so much capacity (25%)--you wouldn’t think it would actually save that much money, moving that capacity to China.