Which is a higher percentage play? Returning a DTL ball DTL or crosscourt.

[Golden Retriever]

I got a dilemma here. Going crosscourt is high percentage but changing direction of a ball is low percentage. Now if you return a DTL ball crosscourt you are doing both at the same time, going crosscourt (high %) and changing direction (low %.) On the other hand if you return a DTL ball DTL, you are also doing both a the same time, going DTL (low %) and NOT changing direction (high %.) So which one is the higher % play?

[kevhen]

I would say it is about equal. Hit to the center of the court and not to the corners if you want the highest percent on this type of shot.

If the ball is coming in fast then it will be very hard to hit to either corner. If it's coming in slow then you should be able to place it either way.

[BabolatFan]

Crosscourt is. Changing direction and DTL itself is risky (higher part of the net) in a match and under pressure. Once I'm inside the baseline and see a short ball, of course I go for it for the kill.

[Geezer Guy]

That's a good question. I don't know for sure, but my guess would be:

If the DTL comes to your backhand and you go DTL to your opponents forehand, that's low percentage.

If the DTL comes to your forehand and you go DTL to your opponents backhand, that's higher percentage.

So, DTL to your backhand, go cross-court to opponents backhand.
DTL to your forehand, go wherever you want?

[deluxe]

Cross court is the higher percentage shot. If you are caught hitting the ball late when going crosscourt, your ball will still go in. If you are caught late on the DTL shot, it will go out. Cross court will go over the lower part of the net and you have more court distance to hit into.

[mucat]

It is two things.

Not changing direction is obviously a high % shot, since it is easier to just hit the ball back without aiming where you want to hit and the distance is longer and you will have a safer court position.

Hitting over the lower part of the net is also a high % shot, because it is easier to hit pass the lower part of the net.

However, those are just general guidelines without looking at where you are, where your opponent is, both of your weakness and strength, etc.

[LuckyR]

[QUOTE=mucat;1080592]It is two things.

Not changing direction is obviously a high % shot, since it is easier to just hit the ball back without aiming where you want to hit and the distance is longer and you will have a safer court position.[QUOTE]


That is true for a crosscourt coming towards you, but is not true for a DTL shot coming to you. It is easier (and therefore higher percentage) to hit a DTL shot by changing it's direction (ie crosscourt), than keeping the original direction.

[mucat]

[QUOTE=mucat;1080592]It is two things.

Not changing direction is obviously a high % shot, since it is easier to just hit the ball back without aiming where you want to hit and the distance is longer and you will have a safer court position.[QUOTE]


That is true for a crosscourt coming towards you, but is not true for a DTL shot coming to you. It is easier (and therefore higher percentage) to hit a DTL shot by changing it's direction (ie crosscourt), than keeping the original direction.

You are right. It is a bigger area for the player to hit to so it is safer, I forgot that.

[psp2]

^^Exactly.

Going xc is much higher % than going back dtl. You have much more area to hit into by going xc and over a lower net. The margin of error is huge in contrast to going back dtl.

[tennisplayer]

It's okay (meaning safe) to change directions on an incoming ball that doesn't cross the (imaginary) line going from you to the net (perpendicular to the net) - according to Wardlaw's directionals method. Thus converting a DTL to a crosscourt is quite safe.

On the other hand, if you return a DTL with a DTL, you'd better be prepared to run for the next ball...

[Geezer Guy]

It's okay (meaning safe) to change directions on an incoming ball that doesn't cross the (imaginary) line going from you to the net (perpendicular to the net) - according to Wardlaw's directionals method. Thus converting a DTL to a crosscourt is quite safe. ...

Once again, for those of us a bit slow?

[Trinity TC]

I'm just repeating what Tennisplayer says but not changing the direction of the shot is an old school, wooden racquet concept. It's no problem with today's carbon fiber racquets. Hit a short angle crosscourt if you are in an offensive position and within a couple of feet from the sideline...because your opponent has just opened up the court for you. Make it so that they have to hit their next shot from the doubles alley or wider. If you can't hit that shot...do drills until you can.

If you are being pressured or on the run (4.0 and lower) then realistically your only options are a groundstroke which will probably be up the middle and defensive because you can't get a good whack at it...or a lob. One exception...if you have a consistent "running, hit it on the rise, angled forehand winner" like Sampras on his good days (Lansdorp calls it a reverse hand I think??) ...use it! Some 3.0-3.5 guys with good hands are really good with that shot.

Hitting a running DTL in reply to a DTL shot will mean that you lose the point because it's a low percentage shot and if it does go in...you'll be standing in the doubles alley when your opponent hits the next shot. Tennisplayer is right...be prepared to get on your bicycle and haul ass to the other sideline if you hit DTL to DTL.

If he has you pinned in the corner (and you are both 5.5 or higher) then it might be a battle of deep DTLs where the first short ball will get hit for a crosscourt winner.

edit: I'm not sure if this helps G Guy but I started my post the same time as TP but finished after you. It took awhile because I tossed in a few examples of the whys and wherefors of point construction.

[kevhen]

I don't think Wardlaw ever said to change directions on a difficult ball as the shearing becomes more apparent at higher speeds with larger angle changes.

What is wrong with aiming for the center of the court against a difficult incoming DLT shot? Going back DTL is risky if you hit late even though you don't have to change directions. Going crosscourt has advantages with a lower net and more court to hit into but a much greater chance of hitting the frame or off center mishit due to the changing angle.

The ball is coming in at one angle but your racquet path is swinging in a much different angle when changing directions like maybe 30 degrees difference and lots of weird things can happen if the ball is coming in fast and your timing not perfect when trying to drastically change the direction of the ball.

[Bagumbawalla]

All things being equal, I think Kevhen's suggestion is the best gereral reply to a DTL shot. If you hit it back to the opponent DTL, they can hit it back, cross court, where it is wide open, for an agressive placement.

Hitting to the middle eliminates that possibility, and is an easier shot to make.

[kevhen]

This is from an old thread:
"The 90 COD is for OUTSIDE ground strokes (when you get a "weak" ball to the outside)."
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:099PHhy---wJ:tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D29301+shearing+tennis+wardlaw +directionals&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

Generally the idea is to change directions on weak balls but to hit back where they came from on hard hit shots.

[tennisplayer]

Agree with Trinity TC... and mostly agree with Kevhen and Bagumbawalla.

Hitting to the middle is certainly an option, but you have to watch out for this situation... let's say your opponent hits a BH DTL to your FH. He could now be all set for an inside out FH. If you hit to the middle, you may have to chase an inside out FH to the other side. I have had this thrust down my throat enough times, so if I can hit a deep crosscourt return and make him run, I will always take that option.

However, you are right in that the shot has to be possible. If the DTL is heavy and deep enough, you may be best off hitting it straight back. If your shot to the middle is deep and heavy, the inside out FH may be an unsafe shot. The statements I make apply to shots where one has some options, and of course, every situation is different.

[Trinity TC]

All things being equal, I think Kevhen's suggestion is the best gereral reply to a DTL shot. If you hit it back to the opponent DTL, they can hit it back, cross court, where it is wide open, for an agressive placement.

Hitting to the middle eliminates that possibility, and is an easier shot to make.
That's why I'm saying that if you can't hit the sharp crosscourt...practice until you can. It's an easy shot to master and will improve your rating by .5 overnight. The up the middle shot on a ball that you can take a decent cut at is basically giving up an offensive position and starting the point over again. Do you want to improve or do you want to theorize about what might or might not be?

edit: We are starting to define what the meaning of "pusher" is. I respect the pusher game unlike many others out there but what direction do you guys want to take your game? You have a choice whether you play in the benign center or push (no pun intended) the edge of the envelope with regards to angles, winners etc. Good luck. :)

[kevhen]

What level do you play against? Do your opponents hit really hard DTL shots (75-90mph)? You just take these hard shots and spot them sharp crosscourt???? I am going to need a lot of practice but I guess my NTRP would go up 0.5 if I could learn how to do that. I need to go find my Wardlaw book and see what he says about this kind of shot.

[Bagumbawalla]

Trinity TC

I dont' disagree with you. I was just answering the question about what is the highest (safest) percentage shot under that condition.

Obviously, If you get a ball that you can angle sharply for a winner, that is an option. I don't believe it is, necessarily, the highest percentage shot you can make.

[kevhen]

edit: We are starting to define what the meaning of "pusher" is. I respect the pusher game unlike many others out there but what direction do you guys want to take your game.

I just want to win by playing the percentages. Would like to know what everyone thinks is the percentage choice of shot here? WWFD?

[Trinity TC]

I just want to win by playing the percentages. Would like to know what everyone thinks is the percentage choice of shot here? WWFD?
For me it's the crosscourt forehand. I don't even have an up the middle forehand.:p

[kevhen]

What style player are you? Aggressive baseliner?

[FiveO]

I don't think Wardlaw ever said to change directions on a difficult ball as the shearing becomes more apparent at higher speeds with larger angle changes.

What is wrong with aiming for the center of the court against a difficult incoming DLT shot? Going back DTL is risky if you hit late even though you don't have to change directions. Going crosscourt has advantages with a lower net and more court to hit into but a much greater chance of hitting the frame or off center mishit due to the changing angle.

The ball is coming in at one angle but your racquet path is swinging in a much different angle when changing directions like maybe 30 degrees difference and lots of weird things can happen if the ball is coming in fast and your timing not perfect when trying to drastically change the direction of the ball.

The middle off a well placed DTL is less desirable than returning it X-court.

While you limit the opponent's angle potential on his reply by hitting toward the middle you also force yourself move a greater distance, sometimes a much greater distance (depending on how much you miss the center by and on which side you miss it) while moving harder to recover the center of possible returns which is now the center hash.

Also if you have the opportunity to get the ball x-court on an exchange which favors you the middle allows the opponent with a weapon to easily run-around the ball and hit with choice.

Additionally, if you err short and middle your court is nearly as open as hitting dtl.

[Trinity TC]

What level do you play against? Do your opponents hit really hard DTL shots (75-90mph)? You just take these hard shots and spot them sharp crosscourt???? I am going to need a lot of practice but I guess my NTRP would go up 0.5 if I could learn how to do that. I need to go find my Wardlaw book and see what he says about this kind of shot.
I used to play pretty decent tennis but the last time I was rated was at 4.5 (down about 1.0, I guess) after I lost most of my mobility to MS. One good thing...I learned all about angles and pushing my opponents around because my mobility was down to about 33%. If I can hit that shot...anybody can. Go for it. :p

edit: All court player trained in the old school Aussie method but stumbled (another pun :)) on the hit-on-the-rise power groundstroke game because of balance and mobility problems.

[tennisplayer]

What level do you play against? Do your opponents hit really hard DTL shots (75-90mph)? You just take these hard shots and spot them sharp crosscourt???? I am going to need a lot of practice but I guess my NTRP would go up 0.5 if I could learn how to do that. I need to go find my Wardlaw book and see what he says about this kind of shot.

I assume you are asking me, since I mentioned Wardlaw.

My coach (who was rated 5.5 in his heyday), with whom I play once in a while, can hit very hard DTL topspin or slice backhands. I am not at his level, and in the leagues I play in, we don't use ratings. Nor do I have the equipment to measure ball speed. Also, my practice partner has excellent FH and BH strokes that he can hit with a ton of spin (but not as hard as my coach).

All I can say is even a hard hit ball DTL can be hit crosscourt if you are there in time, unless it is too deep, or has some difficult to deal with action on it. On these really difficult balls, the best bet is to hit it back high with heavy topspin, and give oneself recovery time.

What do you mean by "sharp" crosscourt? If you mean a short, angled shot, that is hard to do in general.

[kevhen]

I love hitting X-court as much as any other rallyer but I guess for me it depends on the opponent's pace as to how well I will be able to place my next shot. If it's coming in at moderate pace I will almost always take it crosscourt. But if it's coming in very hard, I will likely just block it back from where it came or as safe as possible away from all lines. I guess it all depends on if you are a good offensive player or better at playing defense in what you do with a hard DTL ball. Go back DTL, hit safely in the center of court, go deep crosscourt, or sharp angled crosscourt are all options that can win you the point.

[kevhen]

High with topspin buys you recovery time. Also low slice can be a good defensive shot too that buys time and makes it hard for the opponent to finish in one stroke against a low skidding ball. Hitting hard unless you go for the DTL or angle winner is pretty risky as you have alot of empty court behind you that your opponent can hit into if you don't get the clean winner.

[Trinity TC]

All I can say is even a hard hit ball DTL can be hit crosscourt if you are there in time, unless it is too deep, or has some difficult to deal with action on it. On these really difficult balls, the best bet is to hit it back high with heavy topspin, and give oneself recovery time.
For sure. The safety shot is what all good players have. I guess it gets developed out of necessity because your opponent gives you no choice.:)

What do you mean by "sharp" crosscourt? If you mean a short, angled shot, that is hard to do in general.
I had that shot ingrained in me until I could hit it in my sleep. A standard warm-up drill for me was to stand in the doubles alley and hit the crosscourt forehand out the side of the court between the service line and baseline. The point wasn't how hard or with how much spin you hit but that you were able to steer the ball over to the sideline. I developed consistency in that shot even when I had to improvise. You can't underestimate the human brain's ability to improvise. We're super computers not machines.:p

[tennisplayer]

For sure. The safety shot is what all good players have. I guess it gets developed out of necessity because your opponent gives you no choice.:)


Actually, my coach wants me to hit this shot every time! But I save it for the tough occasions...


I had that shot ingrained in me until I could hit it in my sleep. A standard warm-up drill for me was to stand in the doubles alley and hit the crosscourt forehand out the side of the court between the service line and baseline. The point wasn't how hard or with how much spin you hit but that you were able to steer the ball over to the sideline. I developed consistency in that shot even when I had to improvise. You can't underestimate the human brain's ability to improvise. We're super computers not machines.:p

To have my opponent hit this shot when I am behind the baseline is my nightmare... my knees ache at the very thought! :-)

[limitup]

This is easy. Just rip a short angled xc shot with side/top spin using a "reverse forehand" (just hit the outside of the ball - around 5 oclock for righties). You can hit it as high over the net as you have to, but obviously the lower the better. There is no discussion - that is by far the best shot to hit. Once you learn how to hit this shot, it's one of the safest shots to hit in any situation because it's almost impossible to hit it out. In the case of returning a DTL shot it will be very difficult for your opponent to get to the ball. Point over 90% of the time once you learn this shot. It's a no-brainer. Like a previous poster said (I think), learning this shot will increase your rating 0.5 overnight. This is a great shot to hit on the run.

[ipodtennispro]

Only go down the line in these situations:

1. Hurting your opponent
2. Approaching the net
3. Passing shots
4. Hitting winners

Go to ipodtennispros.com and search the high performance clips.

Stay crosscourt for many more reasons. Be patient.

[Solat]

cross court is the better option for the reasons mentioned previous
1. larger area
2. lower net
3. natural body rotation
4. best position for court coverage on next shot

very good thinking tho with the whole change of direction, something i had never considered before. I kinda also applaud the thinking about playing your opponent's backhand accordingly.

the last thing you may even want to consider is which shot you are better at, whilst DTL might be lower % if your technique dictates (or even your confidence) dictates a better DTL stroke you shouldn't shy away after all you are always best off playing the game you feel most comfortable playing not the game that a book (or internet peeps) tell you to :D

[Slazenger]

Returning the ball crosscourt is the way I would go.

Solely from matchplay I can tell you that if you catch that dtl shot early enough and reply crosscourt, your next shot will either be an overhead or a put-away volley (it may even be a clean winner).