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View Full Version : Posting of South Carolina Appeals????


vizsla
11-29-2006, 07:24 AM
Why is it that South Carolina USTA does not publish a listing of who appealed and whether that individual was granted or denied???

It would be nice if they would publish it just like North Carolina. Check it out at... http://www.nctennis.com/ Then go to "NTRP Ratings & Appeals" and scroll to bottom and select "online". They did a great job on it!!!

Jack the Hack
11-29-2006, 08:02 AM
Sounds like the North Carolina section is way ahead of other sections on this one.

The PNW section does not post appeal decisions online either... you have to look at the ratings in TennisLink to see if anything changes.

I wish there was a little more consistancy throughout the country with USTA section standards, not just with the ratings, but in other areas as well. For example, some sections do an amazing job making their ranking criteria easy to understand (usually a point system), and they update the rankings (and make them easy to find) on a bi-weekly or monthly basis. Other sections, you can hardly find the rankings at all unless you know how to dig through TennisLink.

(Last year, I found a calculation problem with the NTRP rankings in our section that the PNW USTA person didn't even know about. From my research, it looked like the NTRP rankings had been wrong for at least the past 3 years. However, nobody discovered it because the PNW only publishes the rankings once a year... in April of the following year! No wonder nobody pays attention to them. It doesn't work like that in all of the other sections. There are far more people playing NTRP tournaments than the age categories or Opens, but most sections don't give a rip about those rankings. However, if they were more prominant, I think you would see more people motivated to play more tournaments and improve their place. But then again... maybe it would also turn NTRP tournaments into the same type of cheating atmosphere that the League tennis has become.)

tennis-n-sc
11-29-2006, 08:07 AM
I agree with you Jack. It seems that the sections are given too much autonomy and get very vague direction from the national office. Doesn't make much sense. Even within the sections, the states tend to run their own boat as they see fit.

DrewRafter8
11-29-2006, 09:28 AM
I love how NC posts this list. I've enjoyed seeing some of the appeals for players who should have been bumped up be denied.

I myself did not appeal, but many of the players who have like how fast the turn around time is. They update every Weds.

vizsla
11-29-2006, 09:52 AM
They're posted now on the SC website.

raiden031
11-29-2006, 11:19 AM
Under what conditions would an appeal ever be granted?

Geezer Guy
11-29-2006, 11:22 AM
If you're just BARELY over the threshold, you can appeal your bump and get bumped back down. People do this for a variety of reasons. Well, really just one reason - but they come up with a nice variety of excuses.

raiden031
11-29-2006, 11:34 AM
If you're just BARELY over the threshold, you can appeal your bump and get bumped back down. People do this for a variety of reasons. Well, really just one reason - but they come up with a nice variety of excuses.

Whats a valid excuse? I took steroids when I played that last guy but normally I'm not that good?

Geezer Guy
11-29-2006, 11:51 AM
I'm not sure there ARE any valid excuses - just a wide VARIETY of excuses.

AndrewD
11-30-2006, 03:06 AM
Guys, sorry to interrupt but I was wondering if anyone could answer this question.

There's a possibility that my girlfriend and I will be spending 12 or so months in the States (research work for me) and I'd be interested in playing tennis while I'm there. I've done a rating test out here (ITN) but don't know if it carries any weight in the States. How do I fairly assign myself a rating?

Ash Doyle
11-30-2006, 04:53 AM
Andrew, where in the States will you be?

equinox
11-30-2006, 05:35 AM
AndrewD,

You should selfrate as 3.5-4.0.

You'll get plenty of wins at 3.5.

Geezer Guy
11-30-2006, 06:52 AM
The NTRP level goes from 1 (beginner) to 7 (pro). I've heard that the majority of adult players that play a LOT (not just your weekend hackers) are between 3.0 and 3.5. Good college players are 4.5 to 5.5.

Using your ITN rating of whatever it is based on the minimum and maximum ITN range, just figure out what the correlation would be.

cak
11-30-2006, 07:05 AM
Andrew, here's a conversion chart for ITN to NTRP (and back)

http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/usta/doc/content/doc_13_12278.pdf?4/3/2006%203:19:51%20PM

The caveat is the NTRP in league play is determined only by results, where ITN I believe is determined by strokes, so doesn't have the mental aspect of the rating. So if your strokes are a bit unconventional, but you normally beat people with similar ITN ratings, or vice versa, you may want to fudge a bit in either direction.

AndrewD
11-30-2006, 07:53 PM
Thanks all. The conversion chart that cak posted says that an ITN 4 (my last rating) is equivalent to an NTRP 4.5 but another conversion chart puts it (ITN 4) at an NTRP 5.0. Put it like this, Peter McNamara (yes, that one: two time Wimbledon doubles champ, former top 10 player) is an ITN 3 so it looks like, as more people have done the ITN, they've refined the conversions and increased the level. Guess that would make me an ITN 5 which still converts to an NTRP 4.5

cak,
You're correct, at least in the beginning. The ITN does initially rate only your strokes and mobility, not your results. However, if you play in competition against other ITN players there is a calculation chart which increases or decreases your ITN. That is very helpful as some players who might be rated lower are there only by virtue of their mobility (or lack thereof). Stroke-wise they might be on a par with a higher level but due to circumstances (age, etc) they don't initially rate at that level. After playing a few matches against people of their initial rating they will move up a slot. Likewise for those who may have rated at a level not commensurate with their match-play skills. They'll drop back. I don't know how it works with doubles. I've had a few wins (plus several losses) in doubles against ITN 3's (based on the old chart) and that would, in theory, move me up a level.

Ash Doyle,
We haven't made a final decision on which State but are considering several possibilities. Quite a lot will depend not only on the strength of the university/college but the scholarship they offer. I have some preferences but have given myself enough time to make the best choice.

Ken Edwards
12-04-2006, 01:23 PM
Back to appealing your NTRP rating. For the most part (except for a medical appeal), the reason for your appeal is irrelevant. Your actual dynamic NTRP rating at the end of the year is not 3.5 or 4.0, but is infact carried out many decimal places. If your dynamic NTRP is no more than .05 above the rating you want (or under if you want to appeal up) then the appeal is automatically granted. If you are over 60, then the threshold is .10. This is purely a mathematical calculation as opposed to an opinion or human interpretation of your record.

vizsla
12-04-2006, 04:07 PM
On the contrary (re it being to the decimal), there are some naysayers that believe there are some influences from league officials when it comes to end of year ratings.

Also, I've seen this past year where one individual played on three, yes three teams in different states. Two of the teams won state (then went on to the Southern Sectional.) One of his teams, whom he played for at sectionals, went to the sectional finals, where they lost.

But he got bumped and guess what, he appealed and it was granted. But one of our players lost to him at sectionals in 3 sets, got bumped and his appealed was denied. How can that be, i.e. someone plays for two state teams, successful at sectionals and doesn't get bumped???!!!

Weird and whacky stuff

flash9
12-07-2006, 10:14 AM
Also, I've seen this past year where one individual played on three, yes three teams in different states. Two of the teams won state (then went on to the Southern Sectional.) One of his teams, whom he played for at sectionals, went to the sectional finals, where they lost.

Weird and whacky stuff

There are rules against playing for more then one team at the same USTA level. Please provide more details! I want to see this person's USTA record? Did they play under different USTA Numbers?

bleach
12-07-2006, 10:52 AM
I don't know about the case visla is talking about but:

A person can play on more than one team at the same level as long as the teams are in differents regions or districts. Several players from my town drive over to another city (about 15 miles) and play in a different district. I know some that drove up to TN (about 80 miles) and played on a team.

They do it to increase playing time and more/better chances of winning the local leagues.

vizsla
12-27-2006, 09:12 AM
There are rules against playing for more then one team at the same USTA level. Please provide more details! I want to see this person's USTA record? Did they play under different USTA Numbers?

Name: Sean C. Armstrong

BTW, he appealed his rating and it WAS GRANTED!!! How can that be???

tennis-n-sc
12-27-2006, 12:35 PM
There are rules against playing for more then one team at the same USTA level. Please provide more details! I want to see this person's USTA record? Did they play under different USTA Numbers?

There are sectional rules, state rules and local rules that govern this. Each can be more restrictive. I was under the impression that the player (in SC) had to reside in SC. But I may be wrong. All the applicable rules are posted in the various websites.

flash9
12-29-2006, 09:53 AM
Name: Sean C. Armstrong

BTW, he appealed his rating and it WAS GRANTED!!! How can that be???

You pose a very interesting question, which I am unable to answer. Looking at the other player on his team, quite a few have won their appeals. :confused:

On my team 4.0 also in NC, we had six 3.5 players get bumped up to 4.0, and I was the only one to win my semi-automatic appear. Basically, this team plays 4.0 in the spring and 7.5 Combo in the fall. I had shoulder surgery (bicep was 90% torn, not nearly as bad a rotator cuff) after the first week in the spring season (lost match) and only got to play in five other matches (lost all). None of the other players have won their rating appear. The thing that is most annoying is that in the fall we will have to play 8.5 Combo because now we only have a few 3.5 players, and we will most likely loose almost all of our matches, but we will have fun. :grin: As a 4.0 team we went 0-11 in the Spring of 2006, and as a 7.5 team we went 9-4 in the Fall.

oldguysrule
12-29-2006, 01:24 PM
Name: Sean C. Armstrong

BTW, he appealed his rating and it WAS GRANTED!!! How can that be???

It can be. The above comments regarding the appeals are correct. It was granted because his dynamic NTRP was just barely over the bump line. (within .05 or .10 depending on his age). Don't get caught up in the results of one or two matches. The computer sees all of the matches.