PDA

View Full Version : Tennis Recruiting Network


servelefty2233
11-29-2006, 01:56 PM
www.tennisrecruiting.net is a great website...it has a bunch of different rankings...like 2 different national ones, a college recruiting one, and a bunch of other stuff for juniors...you should check it out!

xtremerunnerars
11-29-2006, 03:35 PM
I saw. It's only a matter of time before i'm a blue chip!

servelefty2233
11-29-2006, 04:21 PM
do you know how they calculate the stars and the blue chips?

xtremerunnerars
11-29-2006, 04:54 PM
I do not. I can sort of gauge myself as to what i would be though...and it seems like i would be a 1 star recruit. I've beaten (some handedly) kids that were 1 star. I only beat one two star that i know, but that was a long time ago. He would probably smoke me now!

serveitup911
11-29-2006, 06:48 PM
...............

LASVEGAS ACES
12-03-2006, 08:26 AM
Read these sites for entertainment only- There are a lot of people who want your money, the internet has just made it so much easier for them.

The real facts are that if you are good, they will find you- All the same information about contacting universities and such is FREE at the LIBRARY.

This is just like "sponsorships" - Understand that if you should have one, you would, it is NOT a measure of how you should feel about you game or the progress you are making- just stand up and represent, get your grades and it will come.

xtremerunnerars
12-03-2006, 09:45 AM
Vegas, do you think that if i get to be a strong 4.5 or MAYBE a 5.0(if i work my *** off, which is what i intend to do) by senior year and if i have a 4.23 GPA that i'll have a chance at getting some financial aid?

LASVEGAS ACES
12-03-2006, 10:21 AM
If you are not yanking- Here's an example of a reference book:

A parent's and student-athelete's guide to athletic scholarships: Getting money without being taken for a (full) ride. c 2000 (Dion Wheeler).


Div III schools CANNOT offer athletic scholarships, so they write up a pretty nice package. The advantage is, that if you diecide not to play later on, they can't really take it away from you, since it was never based on playing.

Title IX has destroyed the smaller Men's sports- too bad, as it was supposed to INCREASE opportunity, and this will never get back in front of Congress to fix as it is not a priority. But fine schools like St.Louis-Washington, Brandeis (team name- "The Judges") and University of Chicago offer tennis AND are not too shabby to graduate from.

SDTENNIS
12-03-2006, 05:59 PM
If you beat someone who is highly ranked (4 star for example) I am a 1 star...and the person you beat is not in your Grade...does that still help your ranking?

LASVEGAS ACES
12-04-2006, 10:43 AM
I think the only rankings you want to think about are from the USTA tournaments you play. Just play in as many tournaments as you can afford- This will give you a "tournament tough" attitude for when you need it, and the averages between crumby draws and good ones will help.

Rankings are nice to look at and all, but I 've been told you want to concentrate on the person across the net from you, right now, and how you can play your best game.

You don't want to be looking at opponent's rankings and past games too much and freak out if they seem too good, or lose because you were overconfident.

SDTENNIS
12-05-2006, 05:02 AM
okay...hmm thanks for answering the question?

LASVEGAS ACES
12-05-2006, 05:42 AM
Where I play, you don't get extra points for beating younger guys.

With my freinds- the players I hang with, If a younger player "plays up" in a tourney we play them like you run after a home run- with sportsmanship and trying not to "show up" anyone.

The Tennis Recruiting Network has an email address and phone number for questions that are not covered in the site "Commonly asked questions" area.

brayman9
12-07-2006, 02:13 PM
that sight is good i just started and they had my name and a tornament i played last week. I wish you didn't have to pay though

RunningHoo
12-11-2006, 06:07 AM
Just one quick thing... As far as I know, Tennisrecruiting.net does not cost anything to players. All players who have competed in larger tournaments are listed on the website, and players/parents can update their information for free.

redsoxrock930
07-31-2007, 08:45 PM
I think that tennisrecruiting.net is a great website

Silentgunz
07-31-2007, 08:49 PM
dude awesome im on there :)

EasternRocks
08-01-2007, 07:59 AM
lots of ppl go on that web alot. i heard that some college coaches go on that and go recruit some good kids at big tourneys. they also grade the kids in the same year as you. its very intersting.

JLyon
08-01-2007, 08:15 AM
you're best working your butt off and getting into Top 250 National Ranking. Send videos to schools your interested in, but one thing make sure your video shows you playing someone at or above your level. Videos showing a potential recruit destroying some lowly beginner does nothing for coaches. Most coaches attend the Super Nationals and regional they will attend the Sectional Level tournaments (Southern = Bullfrog, Texas = Grand slam and MZ).

redsoxrock930
08-01-2007, 08:31 AM
Do you know any other good sites like this

mrmo1115
08-01-2007, 09:27 AM
tennisrecruting is good but sometimes there caculations and rankings are off and not exactly pin point as the usta rankings are on tennislink

i believe that if you are playing some one and just want a little preview of what your going against then you should go there

if ur just researching and want to find out more about people especially if u want to know what your true ranking is on usta then go to to tennislink

im not going to flame tennisrecruting.net but ive beaten many kids who are either 4 or 5 chips and i am .500 with 3 chips i should be moved to a 4 chip or a 5 chip im confused about how he upgrade you from 3 to 4 or 5 to blue

any body know?

tenniskid3119
08-01-2007, 09:29 AM
they sent me an email, so I looked at the site and I'm on there?! i didnt even know it. It has my right city and state but It says I'm a senior. I'm just a sophomore.

mrmo1115
08-01-2007, 09:33 AM
well thats what i mean they get years mixed up but i know that you can self change it yourself

JMS
08-01-2007, 09:35 AM
tennisrecruting is good but sometimes there caculations and rankings are off and not exactly pin point as the usta rankings are on tennislink

i believe that if you are playing some one and just want a little preview of what your going against then you should go there

if ur just researching and want to find out more about people especially if u want to know what your true ranking is on usta then go to to tennislink

im not going to flame tennisrecruting.net but ive beaten many kids who are either 4 or 5 chips and i am .500 with 3 chips i should be moved to a 4 chip or a 5 chip im confused about how he upgrade you from 3 to 4 or 5 to blue

any body know?

yeah ryan noble is number 6 in the nation for boys 16s, and just took 3rd at the national cly courts, and he is not a blue chip recruit? and he is only 20 on their national list, it makes no sense

Aeropro master
08-01-2007, 11:39 AM
i should be a one-star recruit! Its about time somebody posted stuff on this site. I spend a decent amount of time on it.

weeman123
08-01-2007, 03:51 PM
Tennisrecruiting.net isn't exactly in line with the ranking because it takes into account other factors. Also, the ranking aren't based on your graduating class. You could be one in the country in sixteens and there are other people in your grade doing better than you in 18's and itf's.

The Stars work like this(not exact numbers):
1 star-below 700
2 star-top 700
3 star-top 400
4 star-top 200
5 star-top 75
blue chip-top 15? (very subjective not what number you are also includes big wins etc.)

The stars are only updated once a year in around late september. I hope that helped.

babolat15
08-01-2007, 04:42 PM
ive known about this site for more than a year now

ayyhwang
08-02-2007, 01:22 PM
TennisRecruiting is really inaccurate. i just checked mine and they're all wrong. for example it says my state ranking is 13 but it's actually 1. here's the link to my USTA state ranking: http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Rankings/PlayerRecords.aspx?id=343995&p=3

weeman123
08-02-2007, 03:24 PM
that not supposed to be your state rankiing on tennisrecruiting.net it's comparing the tennisrecruiting.net ranking of people from your state

rinz
08-02-2007, 07:59 PM
I think tennisrecruiting rankings are more accurate than USTA rankings because they are based on who you beat and who you lose to.
JMS, Ryan Noble isn't a blue chip because they decide what star player you are every september (if his ranking stays where it is now he will be a blue chip next school year), and his ranking is 20 because its based on tournaments from the last 12 month's, and he lost to many people who were not highly ranked last fall.

Cfballer5
08-04-2007, 08:05 PM
its a pretty awesome sight but ive noticed that they dont update it that much because my record is way off on there.

<3Tennis
08-04-2007, 09:26 PM
TennisRecruiting is really inaccurate. i just checked mine and they're all wrong. for example it says my state ranking is 13 but it's actually 1. here's the link to my USTA state ranking: http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Rankings/PlayerRecords.aspx?id=343995&p=3

But there's 12 people in you're state o_O
If you click on the return to ranking list on you're ranking page, it only lists 12 total players.
Is Maryland that small?

rinz
08-04-2007, 09:43 PM
I think he is ranked number 1 in "Maryland" on that USTA ranking because its a regional ranking, and since most of the better players in Maryland don't do regional tournaments they are not on that ranking list.

NebAce1
08-05-2007, 06:03 AM
I think he is ranked number 1 in "Maryland" on that USTA ranking because its a regional ranking, and since most of the better players in Maryland don't do regional tournaments they are not on that ranking list.

yea rinz is right.

babolat15
08-05-2007, 06:46 AM
seems inaccurate to me

Fedace
08-05-2007, 07:16 AM
...............


Hey Seveitup, Can you ask your guy, if Isner's serve is really as unreturnable as it looks like it is ?? I don't understand why the pros are having so much trouble with his serve, maybe it is due to the fact they haven't seen it yet. Even Ivo Karlovic gets broken more often than Isner. And Deeverman doesn't seem to have as much trouble with Isner serve and he is just a challenger level player at best.:confused:

counterpunch _god
08-07-2007, 09:03 AM
I think they update all the weekly rankings every tuesday, and they update all the stars in September. They also release the hot 100 lists every 3rd week.

rnoble
08-13-2007, 12:35 PM
JMS, RINZ is correct. Tennisrecruiting rankings are more accurate as they take people by birth year and put them in their age group when computing the rankings, even though they may be excelling when playing up a division or two. Examples of 16 year olds: Rhyne Williams, Jamere Jenkins, etc. 14 year old Denis Kudla playing 16 and 18's.

As for Ryan Noble, he had been a blue chip since the rankings started in '03. He competed in the Easter Bowl '06 with an unknown broken wrist, and was rounded for the first time in his career in singles. However, he still managed a Silver Ball in doubles. After that, he had surgery following sectionals when it was diagnosed, and then missed The Clay Courts, The Zoo, and 2 National Opens at that time. Tennisrecruiting does not issue the Blue Chip Status but once a year in September. There are no ranking protections for injuries as is done on the WTA and ATP. Therefore, Ryan lost that status in '06 as he could not compete to get the wins associated with a strong National Schedule.

I assume it would open up a flood gate of problems with kids claiming all sorts of injuries to protect recruitment options, should their status be put on hold by tennissrecruiting do to injuries.

Ryan will undoubtedly be a Blue Chip again this September.

redsoxrock930
08-13-2007, 09:07 PM
thanks for that clarification

dallasoliver
08-13-2007, 09:20 PM
As a TennisRecruiting.net founder, I wanted to answer a few questions about the service. FWIW, here are some random comments on this thread. I apologize in advance for its length.

- TennisRecruiting.net is not affiliated with the USTA in any way.

- TennisRecruiting.net provides independent rankings that are unique in two ways: (1) we rank by graduation year rather than age group and (2) we use a head-to-head system rather than a points-based system (i.e., what matters is who you beat rather than where you play).

- While we do have confirmed graduation years for more than 10,000 juniors, there are many juniors for whom we do not have graduation years. We make an "educated guess" at the graduation year based on a player's age, but there can obviously be errors. We clearly note players where the graduation year has not been confirmed. Players and parents are welcome to create a free account and update/confirm the graduation year.

- The website is free for players to use - they can update information for college coaches to see. We do have a premium pay service as well, but that service is to view additional information, read articles, etc.

- RINZ, rnoble, and others are correct - TennisRecruiting.net produces a single ranking of all kids in the nation - the regional and state rankings we show are simple filters on the national rankings.

- Playing people in other classes does indeed count towards your ranking.

- New rankings are released as follows:
- Boys College Recruiting Lists - Every Tuesday
- Girls College Recruiting Lists - Every Wednesday
- Boys CollegeRPI - Every Thursday
- Girls CollegeRPI - Every Friday
- Hot 100 (players improving their rankings) - monthly on Monday mid-month

- The ratings (Blue Chip, 5 Star, etc.) are produced once a year in late September and are based on play from the previous year ending August 31. For example, the ratings that come out this fall for 2007-08 will be based on tournament play from 1 Sep 2006 through 31 Aug 2007.

- The ratings are calculated according to the College Recruiting List rankings. Period. They are a completely objective rating - there is no subjective component. However, we do not change ratings for the year after we award them - Michael McClune and Hilary Barte are still Blue Chips even though they quit playing junior events long ago and are no longer ranked.

- Ryan Noble should absolutely be a Blue Chip when ratings for 2007-08 are released in 7 weeks... unless he loses badly in some local tournaments between now and the end of the month. (TIC)


OK... that's certainly enough. Again, apologies for the length. If you have questions or comments, I'd be happy to discuss, but it may take me a couple of days to get back to you - this is a busy time of year for us.

JMS
08-13-2007, 09:27 PM
As a TennisRecruiting.net founder, I wanted to answer a few questions about the service. FWIW, here are some random comments on this thread. I apologize in advance for its length.

- TennisRecruiting.net is not affiliated with the USTA in any way.

- TennisRecruiting.net provides independent rankings that are unique in two ways: (1) we rank by graduation year rather than age group and (2) we use a head-to-head system rather than a points-based system (i.e., what matters is who you beat rather than where you play).

- While we do have confirmed graduation years for more than 10,000 juniors, there are many juniors for whom we do not have graduation years. We make an "educated guess" at the graduation year based on a player's age, but there can obviously be errors. We clearly note players where the graduation year has not been confirmed. Players and parents are welcome to create a free account and update/confirm the graduation year.

- The website is free for players to use - they can update information for college coaches to see. We do have a premium pay service as well, but that service is to view additional information, read articles, etc.

- RINZ, rnoble, and others are correct - TennisRecruiting.net produces a single ranking of all kids in the nation - the regional and state rankings we show are simple filters on the national rankings.

- Playing people in other classes does indeed count towards your ranking.

- New rankings are released as follows:
- Boys College Recruiting Lists - Every Tuesday
- Girls College Recruiting Lists - Every Wednesday
- Boys CollegeRPI - Every Thursday
- Girls CollegeRPI - Every Friday
- Hot 100 (players improving their rankings) - monthly on Monday mid-month

- The ratings (Blue Chip, 5 Star, etc.) are produced once a year in late September and are based on play from the previous year ending August 31. For example, the ratings that come out this fall for 2007-08 will be based on tournament play from 1 Sep 2006 through 31 Aug 2007.

- The ratings are calculated according to the College Recruiting List rankings. Period. They are a completely objective rating - there is no subjective component. However, we do not change ratings for the year after we award them - Michael McClune and Hilary Barte are still Blue Chips even though they quit playing junior events long ago and are no longer ranked.

- Ryan Noble should absolutely be a Blue Chip when ratings for 2007-08 are released in 7 weeks... unless he loses badly in some local tournaments between now and the end of the month. (TIC)


OK... that's certainly enough. Again, apologies for the length. If you have questions or comments, I'd be happy to discuss, but it may take me a couple of days to get back to you - this is a busy time of year for us.

thanks for the clarification :grin:

counterpunch _god
08-21-2007, 12:38 PM
Does anyone know around what rank are the stars, exactly?

Blue Chip=
5 Star=
4 Star=
3 Star=
2 Star=
1 Star=

Thanks

dallasoliver
08-30-2007, 05:08 AM
Does anyone know around what rank are the stars, exactly?


There is not a set number for each rating (Blue Chips, 5 Stars, etc.). The actual number depends on the number of players in a graduating class.

For example, when we introduce the Class of 2014 next week, there will be fewer than 500 players in the girls rankings. We will not have as many Blue Chip 6th-grade girls as we do in the older classes where there are more players.

That said, the ratings do go by the College Recruiting Lists, and we do draw lines. The rankings we will use should look a lot like the list we publish next week - since it has all play from September 2006 through August 2007. However, we will accept corrections through September 15th, and then we will calculate a final list for the ratings. Also, some older kids (like Madison Brengle) may declare that they are professional - and that takes them out of the list as well.

The 2007-08 Top Prospect Ratings will be available in early October.

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
08-30-2007, 09:52 AM
dallasoliver-
Thanks for continuing to help clear some things up about Tennisrecruiting-

What happens to points/wins made at BIG tournaments played over NEXT COUPLE DAYS- all the LABOR DAY weekend tourneys?
These (technically) are AUGUST '07 & I know Tennisrecruiting won't CUT the tournament scores in half- SO- in or out of calculations?

dallasoliver
08-30-2007, 05:52 PM
What happens to points/wins made at BIG tournaments played over NEXT COUPLE DAYS- all the LABOR DAY weekend tourneys?

Good question. Our system uses the start date of a tournament for all of its matches. So any tournament that starts on Friday, August 31st will be included in this year's 2006-07 rankings - but a tournament starting on Saturday, September 1 will count in 2007-08.

One other note - results for some tournaments will not be available on Sunday night / Monday morning when we freeze our data. However, we will rerank later in the month, including all results from these weekend tournaments as well as other corrections that are submitted by September 15th.

Thanks again for the question - I am happy to clarify things.

redsoxrock930
09-02-2007, 09:01 PM
why are not all tournaments counted on my tennisrecruiting record, especially some lower tournaments.

dallasoliver
09-04-2007, 05:36 AM
why are not all tournaments counted on my tennisrecruiting record, especially some lower tournaments.

This is a natural question to ask. Since TennisRecruiting.net has a head-to-head system, it certainly seems like a good idea to include all tournaments - more data leads to better rankings, right? Unfortunately, it doesn't really work that way. Including smaller tournaments is a mistake that many people (including us!) have made in the past.

An important consideration when doing a head-to-head ranking is how "well connected" the players are. Head-to-head rankings are excellent when the players have a lot of matches against the rest of the field. But things can break down when there are pockets of players with no cross-play.

To take a simple example, a head-to-head system cannot really compare:

* Player A who reaches the semifinals in several super-national tournaments.
* Player B who is undefeated - but only competes in local tournaments.

While Player A is almost certainly better, there is no data the ranking system can use to differentiate the players without classifying the tournaments. Restricting the set of tournaments we use - and only making kids eligible for rankings if they play a minimum number of matches - ensures good connectedness. Leaving out the local tournaments ensures that above case with Player A and Player B never comes up.

It is for these reasons that we restrict the tournaments considered to large national, sectional, and district tournaments - where we expect the players will be well-connected.

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
09-04-2007, 07:40 AM
Dallasoliver

Since Tennisrecruting has some ties with Tennis Warehouse anyway-

Would you please consider watching the Junior League & Tournament Talk
section to provide more information as the questions come up?
All the Jr. players seem to have good questions and this can only help snowball Tennisrecruiting site as a whole, as more Juniors open the site.
Thanks

AndrewD
09-04-2007, 08:03 AM
It is for these reasons that we restrict the tournaments considered to large national, sectional, and district tournaments - where we expect the players will be well-connected.

Doesn't that disadvantage the players who can't, for financial reasons, travel to those bigger tournaments or are limited to the number of bigger tournaments they can afford to play?

racingdad23
09-04-2007, 09:01 AM
But there's 12 people in you're state o_O
If you click on the return to ranking list on you're ranking page, it only lists 12 total players.
Is Maryland that small?

He is #1 of 12 on the "eligible" list. There are 204 more in the ineligible list. So really he is 1st of 204 in his state.

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
09-04-2007, 10:06 AM
Andrew D
Unfortunate that you have just hit on why tennis at "top" levels is considered (by some) everything from "inbred" to "racist".

It is a very, very small set of folks in the "polo set" who can afford to satisfy whatever drives them to spend this kind of money; When you have tiny little kids going all around the world, I would guess you also have a lot of dough.

No matter what your opinion (good, bad or indifferent) of the Williams' sisters-That old man somehow tapped the right money at the right time and got them there. He may be nuts but you got to give them that.

dallasoliver
09-04-2007, 10:17 AM
Doesn't that disadvantage the players who can't, for financial reasons, travel to those bigger tournaments or are limited to the number of bigger tournaments they can afford to play?

Thanks for catching me on the sloppy language in my previous post. We believe that one strength of the TennisRecruiting.net ranking system is that players can earn strong rankings without much travel. Let me make two different comments – one about the tournaments that count for TennisRecruiting.net rankings, and a second about rankings based on a head-to-head system.


Tournaments Used for TennisRecruiting.net Rankings

TennisRecruiting.net uses all tournaments that have a reasonable number of strong players in the draw. We do not care about the size or location of the tournament – we only insist on the draw being reasonably strong because of the “connectedness” argument I made in my previous post.

We designed our system so that all junior players have the opportunity to play in nearby tournaments and earn a TennisRecruiting.net ranking. In addition to designated tournaments and tournaments on the national schedule, we also include a number of tournaments (closed state events, etc.) that accept all applicants. Players should be able to stay in-state and earn TennisRecruiting.net rankings – and in many cases very strong rankings.


Head-to-Head Rankings vs. Points Rankings

One of the things people like about the TennisRecruiting.net rankings is that players do not have to travel to earn strong rankings.

TennisRecruiting.net uses a head-to-head ranking system, which means that a player’s rank goes up and down based on who they play – regardless of the tournament. If you beat a couple of players ranked ahead of you in a local tournament, those wins will count just as much as if you had beaten them in San Jose or Kalamazoo.

Contrast this with a points-based system where tournaments are assigned different point values. Level 1 tournaments have the highest point values, followed by Level 2 tournaments, and so on. There are cases where a walkover at a Level 1 tournament can earn you more points than six wins over ranked opponents at a Level 5. If you don’t travel to the tournaments with the largest point values, you cannot earn the big points for a high ranking.

At TennisRecruiting.net, the majority of ranked players have never traveled more than one state away. Players can look for nearby tournaments with historically strong fields – and those tournaments can earn significant rankings at TennisRecruiting.net. Indeed, doing well at a well-established tournament – like the Ojai in California or the Georgia Junior Open – can lift a player’s ranking considerably.


I hope that helps. For reference, the TennisRecruiting.net FAQ specifies the criteria by which tournaments are included in the TennisRecruiting.net rankings:

http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/faq.asp#Rankings-J

dallasoliver
09-04-2007, 10:19 AM
Would you please consider watching the Junior League & Tournament Talk
section to provide more information as the questions come up?

I'll try to look around and participate where I can. One of our other founders - Julie Wrege - is much more knowledgeable than I am. I'll try to bring her in when appropriate.

EasternRocks
09-14-2007, 09:22 AM
i don't really trust the stats on tennisrecruiting, it sometimes gives u false data... but it can be good sometimes when college coaches look at it.

redsoxrock930
09-18-2007, 07:05 PM
since this is my first year of tennis i am not rated but i have a perfect record against not rated player (4-0) and one win and four losses against one star players (most of which were very close) do you think i will be given a one star rating.

redsoxrock930
09-18-2007, 07:38 PM
also when are they updated, have they already been updated.

son_of_RD23
09-19-2007, 11:34 AM
I'm not sure how it all works but I'm a 1 star and I defeated a 3 star in a state level tournament a couple of weeks ago but i didnt get any credit for it on the tennisrecruiting website.

dallasoliver
09-20-2007, 09:41 PM
also when are they updated, have they already been updated.

Hi -

I posted this earlier in the thread.

- The ratings (Blue Chip, 5 Star, etc.) are produced once a year in late September and are based on play from the previous year ending August 31. For example, the ratings that come out this fall for 2007-08 will be based on tournament play from 1 Sep 2006 through 31 Aug 2007.

- The ratings are calculated according to the College Recruiting List rankings. Period. They are a completely objective rating - there is no subjective component. However, we do not change ratings for the year after we award them - Michael McClune and Hilary Barte are still Blue Chips even though they quit playing junior events long ago and are no longer ranked.

To answer your explicit questions: the new ratings are published the first week of October. If you had a ranking at the end of August, then you will receive a rating. At any point in time when you have enough wins and tournaments to get a ranking at TennisRecruiting.net, you will get a rating right away - you don't have to wait until next year.

dallasoliver
09-20-2007, 09:44 PM
I'm not sure how it all works but I'm a 1 star and I defeated a 3 star in a state level tournament a couple of weeks ago but i didnt get any credit for it on the tennisrecruiting website.

Hi -

Not sure exactly what to tell you here without more information. Did your ranking not increase? Do you have a ranking? Do you have a profile at TennisRecruiting.net?

You can always email us at TennisRecruiting.net with questions about the rankings - or we can have a conversation here on the message board.

son_of_RD23
09-20-2007, 10:42 PM
No my ranking did not increase. Yes I have a ranking and profile. The tournament is not listed. There are many USTA tournaments that have not been listed on my Activity list. Maybe I have to be a paid subscriber?

Jackie T. Stephens
09-21-2007, 09:05 PM
Why do I only have 1 star?????

redsoxrock930
09-21-2007, 09:59 PM
not to criticize your rankings but justin anderson, patrick sims, sean simpson and sean handley are one star ******** and im not. I crush all of them. and christopher grant and logan are not rated players, they're much better than all of those guys also michael lowe is only a one star recruit? he has a winning record against three stars!

AndrewD
09-22-2007, 12:13 AM
Andrew D
Unfortunate that you have just hit on why tennis at "top" levels is considered (by some) everything from "inbred" to "racist".


Okay, I've got to know - who has ever described tennis at 'top levels' as inbred?

JMS
09-22-2007, 10:48 AM
.................

Jackie T. Stephens
09-23-2007, 10:55 AM
Why are all of my losses there and not my wins??

dallasoliver
09-25-2007, 01:34 PM
No my ranking did not increase. Yes I have a ranking and profile. The tournament is not listed. There are many USTA tournaments that have not been listed on my Activity list. Maybe I have to be a paid subscriber?

TennisRecruiting.net uses a number of USTA- and ITF-sanctioned tournaments in its rankings - but not all USTA tournaments. In particular, there are many local tournaments that we do not use. You can view the criteria for tournaments to be included here:

http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/faq.asp#Rankings-J

It will be hard for me to help you without more specifics. Please send email to support@tennisrecruiting.net and our team will try to address your question.

dallasoliver
09-25-2007, 01:40 PM
not to criticize your rankings but justin anderson, patrick sims, sean simpson and sean handley are one star ******** and im not. I crush all of them. and christopher grant and logan are not rated players, they're much better than all of those guys also michael lowe is only a one star recruit? he has a winning record against three stars!

All players who have a ranking have at least 1 Star. However, if you do not have a ranking due to lack of play in significant tournaments, then you will not have a ranking or stars:

http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/faq.asp#Rankings-O

Also, keep in mind that the current star ratings are from October 2006 and are based on play from 2005-06. I also expect that Michael Lowe will have additional stars when the new Top Prospect Ratings are released next week.

dallasoliver
09-25-2007, 01:43 PM
Why are all of my losses there and not my wins??

See some of my previous posts... But in a nutshell, TennisRecruiting.net is a national-level ranking that does not include results from many local tournaments.

If your wins are mostly at local tournaments... and if your losses are at larger state-level tournaments... then TennisRecruiting.net will probably include more losses than wins in its rankings.

However, note that you can update your profile to list your wins in the "Tournament Highlights" section on your Player Bio page.

dallasoliver
09-25-2007, 01:49 PM
No my ranking did not increase. Yes I have a ranking and profile. The tournament is not listed. There are many USTA tournaments that have not been listed on my Activity list. Maybe I have to be a paid subscriber?

You DEFINITELY do not have to be a paid subscriber. Players and parents do not have to pay anything to use our web services.

We do have a pay membership - Recruiting Advantage - that gives you access to additional information and premium services. But the basic free account allows you to update all contact, academic, and tennis information (with the exception of video upload).

redsoxrock930
09-26-2007, 05:51 PM
can stars be taken away?

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
09-27-2007, 11:15 AM
A bit off the topic, but it was asked- so-
None other than Bud Collins frequently calls the top players in Juniors Tennis
"inbred". He says " The poor American showings internationally are caused by runaway inbreeding" all the time.
I think it started at the French Open awhile back when the Bryant brothers cut him out of a parking space, and he didn't realize they were not only doubles partners, but twins.

dallasoliver
09-27-2007, 05:54 PM
can stars be taken away?

The short answer is yes. TennisRecruiting.net calculates completely new ratings every fall, so the Star ratings for 2007-08 are independent of the 2006-07 ratings. Rating will based solely on the College Recruiting List ranking as of the first week of September - with corrected tournament data submitted to us during September.

We actually just ran the ratings today and are putting them through our quality assurance tests to ensure accuracy. The first Monday in October is always a huge traffic day for us when we release the ratings.

redsoxrock930
09-27-2007, 07:37 PM
also why doesn't it take into effect doubles performances. for instance i couldn't believe that daniel nguyen's ranking went down after he won the 16s nationals

dallasoliver
09-28-2007, 03:30 AM
also why doesn't it take into effect doubles performances. for instance i couldn't believe that daniel nguyen's ranking went down after he won the 16s nationals

That is another good question. Doubles is especially important in college tennis where the doubles point is often the make-or-break point in spring duals. Having a doubles component in our rankings - or at least an additional ranking that also uses doubles - seems like a winner idea. We have long considered adding a doubles component, and we still have discussions about it today.

Unfortunately, our ranking system uses a head-to-head ranking system - and it is not straightforward to count doubles in head-to-head rankings. Adding doubles is actually much easier in points-based systems - and so systems like the ITF have singles, doubles, and combined rankings.

So counting doubles is not something we do today, but it has long been something on our list for future consideration.

JLyon
09-28-2007, 06:06 AM
guys tennisrecruiting.net is nice but in the end Coaches want to look at a players ITF and USTA record more than some site that selectively chosse which tournaments to show. The site is good for PR pub but little else, go off ITF, WTA/ATP, and USTA rankings for a better understanding of ones ability.

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
09-28-2007, 07:00 AM
JLyon is pretty much on the mark about TENNISRECRUITING site-

But taking it one step further-
The reality is NO college MENS tennis coach, (who has to win to keep his job), is going to put your butts in even a 1/4th or 1/2 scholarship when he can pick up a couple foreign 25 year olds with pro experience who would cut off their arms to come to America.

If you are not at the very top- (and you would know it if you were) you may or may not go to college- but it will not be to play tennis, and sure as heck
no one is going to give you a scholarship.

Thanks mostly to Title IX, if you are a freshmen right now, by the time you graduate it is more likely that there will be no Men's tennis for you to apply to play.

Now there is a bunch of people out there who will try and tell you different
but all you have to do is follow the money; Is it going to you from them, like in sponsorships, grants, or any opportunities to get better on them -OR-
is it going from you to them as they sell you recruiting tools, lessons,camps,lectures, tapes, supplements,schools,equipment,books?

dallasoliver
09-28-2007, 06:17 PM
guys tennisrecruiting.net is nice but in the end Coaches want to look at a players ITF and USTA record more than some site that selectively chosse which tournaments to show. The site is good for PR pub but little else, go off ITF, WTA/ATP, and USTA rankings for a better understanding of ones ability.

JLyon -

A couple of nitpicks with your argument...

(1) All rankings are selective

You seem to take a shot at TennisRecruiting.net because it is selective in the results it uses. However, all rankings - including the ones you mention - are selective about the tournaments they include. For example, the USTA has national, sectional, and district rankings - and they all count different tournaments. Frankly, that is the only thing that makes sense.

The TennisRecruiting.net rankings are a national ranking - and TennisRecruiting.net actually includes *more* tournaments than the USTA national rankings.


(2) Goals of the rankings

The goal of the TennisRecruiting.net rankings is very different than those put out by the USTA, ITF, and TennisInformation.com. Those sites try to rank all players by ability based on age group. The #1 girl in the 18s should be better than, say, the #100 girl in the 18s.

At TennisRecruiting.net, we are only trying to compare kids within the same graduation year. That is, we say nothing about how good the #1 senior is compared with the #1 junior. Those kids are not competing against each other for scholarships - so we do not compare them head-to-head. For that reason, TennisRecruiting.net would be a terrible list to try and seed a tournament.


(3) PR pub

There are many tools by coaches used in recruiting, and rankings are one of them. In particular, they give coaches a good starting place to make a list of potential targets to evaluate.

The TennisRecruiting.net rankings are very popular among college coaches. More than 800 coaches have registered for accounts at TennisRecruiting.net, and many of them are on the site every week. But don't take my word for it - see for yourself... If you have a profile at TennisRecruiting.net, create a free account and link that account to your profile. You can see - for free - how many coaches have been looking at your profile page.

Best,
Dallas

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
08-26-2008, 11:56 AM
ANOTHER QUESTION -
One post mentioned @270 DIV. 1 schools offering MENS TENNIS...

Dallas Oliver- How come TENNISRECRUITING is showing a lot of Conferences BUT only @ 75 schools?

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
08-26-2008, 12:09 PM
^ My mistake- All there, Thanks

10isRocs
08-26-2008, 02:44 PM
JLyon -



The TennisRecruiting.net rankings are very popular among college coaches. More than 800 coaches have registered for accounts at TennisRecruiting.net, and many of them are on the site every week. But don't take my word for it - see for yourself... If you have a profile at TennisRecruiting.net, create a free account and link that account to your profile. You can see - for free - how many coaches have been looking at your profile page.

Best,
Dallas

What contact info is a coach allowed to see to get in contact with a player, ie: e-mail, home address, phone, etc?

dallasoliver
08-27-2008, 01:54 PM
What contact info is a coach allowed to see to get in contact with a player, ie: e-mail, home address, phone, etc?

Coaches (and only coaches) have access to a special page for each player. That page contains any contact and academic information the player has entered in the system.

Currently, that information consists of:

Birth date
Contact Information

Address
Phone numbers
Email

Contact information for coaches
Academic Information

Class rank
GPA
NCAA Clearinghouse ID
Standardized test scores (SAT, SAT II, ACT)
AP Exam Scores



Players (or their parents) can update all of this information with a free account. Click on this link to find out how:

http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/about/GettingStarted.asp

All of this information is on the "Private Information" player update page.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions.

Best,
Dallas

ClarkC
08-27-2008, 03:58 PM
Dallas Oliver:

Thanks for all the info. Your web site is a great service and source of information.

A couple of questions:

1) If I know that a certain player is class of 2016 but you have him listed as class of 2013 (older than his older brother!), do you care to hear from me, or do you need to hear from the player himself? I could provide a link that shows that he is still eligible for the 10 and under USTA rankings, which would prove that he is not class of 2013, but I can understand that you don't want to receive unproven claims.

2) Likewise, if I know that a certain player's name is "Lewis" and you list him as "Louis," do you want to hear about it, or only want to hear from the player himself?

Thanks, and keep up the good work.

xtremerunnerars
08-27-2008, 04:29 PM
If you could rank by AP test scores, SATs, and GPA instead of tennis ability that'd be great.


Being smart is a lot cheaper than being good at tennis...

dallasoliver
08-28-2008, 03:11 AM
Dallas Oliver:

Thanks for all the info. Your web site is a great service and source of information.

A couple of questions:

1) If I know that a certain player is class of 2016 but you have him listed as class of 2013 (older than his older brother!), do you care to hear from me, or do you need to hear from the player himself? I could provide a link that shows that he is still eligible for the 10 and under USTA rankings, which would prove that he is not class of 2013, but I can understand that you don't want to receive unproven claims.

2) Likewise, if I know that a certain player's name is "Lewis" and you list him as "Louis," do you want to hear about it, or only want to hear from the player himself?

Thanks, and keep up the good work.

ClarkC -

Thanks for the kind words and feedback.

Data integrity is our most difficult challenge - both in terms of player information and match results. We spend more time, engineering effort, and money on data integrity than anything else. And while we do depend heavily on players and parents for information, we also update the information ourselves if it is documented somewhere.

Regarding names and ages, please send us any information you can - and if you have documentation, then that helps a lot. We often approximate birthdates based on the tournaments a player plays, so if a kid plays up all the time it is difficult for us to tell. A link to a 10&U rank list can give us a bound on the birthdate - and we can always contact the player as well.

Corrections to names are great as well. Same thing - if you can give us a website link as documentation, then we don't need to contact the player directly.

Thanks much for the questions. We do strive to have high-quality data, but it's tough to stay ahead of the curve with junior tennis.

Best regards, and good luck to your Wahoos against the Trojans this weekend. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.

Dallas

dallasoliver
08-28-2008, 03:15 AM
If you could rank by AP test scores, SATs, and GPA instead of tennis ability that'd be great.


Being smart is a lot cheaper than being good at tennis...

I know you meant this tongue-in-cheek, but consider this...

College coaches have the ability to design their own custom rank lists. That is, they can get a rank list of boys who all have at least a 3.5 GPA... or girls who scored at least 1800 on the SAT... or kids who listed interest in a school on the West Coast.

Coaches often use these custom rank lists to identify kids who fit a broad profile. If you update your information, then you will show up on these lists.

Best,
Dallas

deddied
08-28-2008, 07:32 AM
If you could rank by AP test scores, SATs, and GPA instead of tennis ability that'd be great.


Being smart is a lot cheaper than being good at tennis...

OMG, yes!
I live in north Florida, and there is a national tournament in delray beach. I(15 years old) would have to help pay over $500. My friend who is smart, went to a DI college for free.:shock:

10isRocs
09-30-2008, 09:43 AM
Does your schedule strength get factored into your overall ranking? It seems some guys are ranked high but their schedule strength is really low whereas those who just play Nationals with a harder schedule are ranked lower because they lose to really high ranked kids.

ayyhwang
09-30-2008, 02:08 PM
schedule strength is only a factor for your TennisRPI ranking, not your college recruiting list rank

dallasoliver
09-30-2008, 08:07 PM
schedule strength is only a factor for your TennisRPI ranking, not your college recruiting list rank

Correct. SoS is a TennisRPI factor. The TennisRPI is a secondary ranking that we show at TennisRecruiting.net based on the well-known Ratings Power Index (RPI) algorithm. Those of you who follow college basketball know that the RPI is a factor for selecting teams into the NCAA tournament.

You can read about the TennisRPI here:

http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/about/RPI.asp

Note also that we consider the TennisRPI to be a secondary ranking. We think the College Recruiting Lists are much more accurate, and we use that ranking when we refer to players' rankings in articles - and that is the ranking we use to determine our Top Prospects ratings.

I hope this helps. Feel free to post more questions.

Best,
Dallas

dallasoliver
11-10-2008, 10:47 AM
Hi all -

I just wanted to let everyone know that this week is "Signing Week" for college tennis... Wednesday is the start of the one-week signing period for NCAA Division I and Division II - when high school seniors can sign a National Letter of Intent to play for a college team in 2009.

Although this does not apply to D3, NAIA, or junior/community colleges, our website uses this week as a focal point for recruiting profiles, raising the profile of college tennis, etc.

We ran a "Countdown to Signing Day" series over the past month:

http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=611#schedule

and now we are in the middle of our "Signing Week" coverage:

http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=640#schedule

All of us at TennisRecruiting.net have worked very hard to coordinate all of this fresh content, so I hope you have a chance to stop by and enjoy it.

Best regards,
Dallas

deddied
11-10-2008, 05:13 PM
Heh Dallas, what does it take to get in the hot 100?

10isDad
11-11-2008, 01:55 AM
Can't you do your own research? The website has a FAQ:

About the Prince Hot 100

The Prince Hot 100 is a list of players who are currently playing excellent tennis and moving quickly up the rankings. These lists - one for boys and one for girls - are updated monthly and published in the third week of the month.

Prince Sports, Inc., and TennisRecruiting.net award points to players for increasing their College Recruiting List ranking. Players with the highest point totals - and whose current ranking is higher than their ranking at any time over the previous 5 months - are placed on the monthly Prince Hot 100 List. Players must also have a winning player record in the month of consideration.

List Characteristics

Points are awarded as follows:

Points Awarded For
10 points Places improved in Top 50
9 points Places improved in 51-100
8 points Places improved in 101-150
7 points Places improved in 151-200
6 points Places improved in 201-250
5 points Places improved in 251-300
4 points Places improved in 301-350
3 points Places improved in 351-400
2 points Places improved in 401-450
1 points Places improved over 450

For example, a player who improves her ranking from 53 to 48 during a month will earn 47 points for the Prince Hot 100: 27 points (i.e., 9x3) for improving from 53 to 50, and an additional 20 points (i.e., 10x2) for moving from 50 to 48.

region2champion
11-11-2008, 03:27 AM
I've been in the HOT 100 about 6 months ago. I was like 70.

eeytennis
11-13-2008, 07:23 AM
Tennisrecruiting.net's ranking are not official and I have found them to be extremely inaccurate in some cases. It is a fun site to look at though.

dallasoliver
11-13-2008, 09:48 AM
Tennisrecruiting.net's ranking are not official and I have found them to be extremely inaccurate in some cases. It is a fun site to look at though.

OK, I'll bite... We make every effort to provide strong NATIONAL rank lists. Note that we do not include many local or even smaller state tournaments. But we feel that our lists are very good at ranking people on a national scale with the tournaments that we include.

Do you have specific examples? I field these often via email - and I have not yet found an instance where our rankings did not make sense.

Best,
Dallas

eeytennis
11-13-2008, 02:38 PM
I think that there is a pretty large discrepancy between the USTA rankings and the tennisrecruiting rankings. More so at the sectional level, but still there. I can think of one specific, and if you would like me to e-mail you it I could.

I am not trying to stir up trouble and I really do enjoy looking at tennisrecruiting.net, but some of the rankings are definitely inaccurate, from what I see at least.

dallasoliver
11-13-2008, 05:28 PM
I think that there is a pretty large discrepancy between the USTA rankings and the tennisrecruiting rankings. More so at the sectional level, but still there. I can think of one specific, and if you would like me to e-mail you it I could.

I am not trying to stir up trouble and I really do enjoy looking at tennisrecruiting.net, but some of the rankings are definitely inaccurate, from what I see at least.

No hard feelings. But I do take issue with your use of the term "inaccurate". I assume that by "inaccurate" you mean "different from the USTA rankings"? If that is what you mean, then you do not understand the point of our rankings. Our rankings are calculated completely different from the USTA - we are not trying to merely duplicate the USTA rankings.

The primary difference is that TennisRecruiting.net uses a head-to-head ranking system, while the USTA uses a points-based system. Both systems have their pros and cons - but the two rankings will always differ dramatically. We feel that head-to-head systems are better predictors of which players would win if they match up head-to-head.

Jdrizzle03
11-13-2008, 05:32 PM
dallas can i send u an email with an updated win/loss for me its missing a couple of matches and also do coaches look at facebook/myspace and if so should i make one just for tennis?

dallasoliver
11-13-2008, 05:36 PM
dallas can i send u an email with an updated win/loss for me its missing a couple of matches

Send any corrections to info@tennisrecruiting.net. And I answered your other question on the other thread.

Best,
Dallas

Jdrizzle03
11-13-2008, 05:37 PM
k and thanks a lot

eeytennis
11-14-2008, 05:16 AM
Well, I know someone, who is ranked in the top 30 of their section. However, they have yet to get past the first round of an L1+ and they haven't beaten ANYONE in the top 50 in their section. So I guess my problem is, is how could they be in the top 30, when they can't even beat anyone in the top 50 of their section? I understand that you rank differently, but I've seen some players rankings get cut in half, literally, when they couldn't beat even people ranked below them.

eeytennis
11-14-2008, 05:19 AM
And they are ranked top 30 on your website...just to clarify.

dallasoliver
11-14-2008, 05:24 AM
And they are ranked top 30 on your website...just to clarify.

Please email me specifics at dallas@tennisrecruiting.net and I will take a look at this case.

eeytennis
11-14-2008, 05:57 AM
OK, will do.

kctennis1005
11-15-2008, 11:59 AM
And they are ranked top 30 on your website...just to clarify.

he could have wins over people outside of his section that are good......u have to remember that points per round and the head-to-head system that tennisrecruiting.net uses are completely different.

Seblad2k8
11-16-2008, 01:57 PM
is their anything like this for the UK?

migjam
11-22-2008, 07:08 AM
Dallas, one thing that I've noticed is, a player that has a short record and has fewer wins but may have played against higher rated players (but has no wins against them) is rated higher than a player with a longer record. So appears that a player can go to a national event and not win a match, lose to seeded players and receive a higher rating.

SaunderS
11-22-2008, 07:27 AM
is their anything like this for the UK?

I was going to ask this. But College tennis doesnt exist in UK, probably coz its not as popular in UK

tennismom42
11-22-2008, 11:16 AM
Tennisrecruiting.net's ranking are not official and I have found them to be extremely inaccurate in some cases. It is a fun site to look at though.
Then apparently you don't understand how it works. It is a marvelous, detailed website, full of statistics. Read Dallas' posts. Time & time again, I've written down the kids' ranking (as per tennisrecruiting.net) before a tournament and compared it to after the tournament. The results are almost identical because it is a a head-to-head ranking. This is unlike the USTA ranking wherein seeds go down in the 1st or 2nd round -- stupid & inaccurate!

eeytennis
11-23-2008, 08:44 AM
Then apparently you don't understand how it works. This is unlike the USTA ranking wherein seeds go down in the 1st or 2nd round -- stupid & inaccurate!

I do understand how it works, and I have gone to Dallas with my questions via e-mail. I still have some issues with the discrepancies though, although Dallas has been great in trying to explain it to me.

And the seeds go down in the 1st or 2nd round? I am not sure what section you are in, but the seedings in the higher level USTA tournaments usually do come out to be rather accurate, not always, but more likely than not. I am not sure where you got that from?

dallasoliver
11-23-2008, 07:03 PM
Dallas, one thing that I've noticed is, a player that has a short record and has fewer wins but may have played against higher rated players (but has no wins against them) is rated higher than a player with a longer record. So appears that a player can go to a national event and not win a match, lose to seeded players and receive a higher rating.

Hi Migjam -

In a nutshell...

- Players are only rewarded for wins - and they are only penalized for losses.
- Wins against players ranked way below you do not help for much.
- Wins against players ranked above you help you a lot.
- Losses to players ranked way above you do not hurt your ranking much.
- Losses to players ranked below you can significantly impact your ranking.

I would be interested to see the case you have. To date, I have not seen any anomalies in our rankings. (Note that I am talking about comparing two players with significantly different rankings - one can often make the case that the #34 and #35 players should be swapped... I am talking more about the difference between, say, #70 and #90 - or better yet, #70 and #120.)

Feel free to email me at dallas@tennisrecruiting.net.

Best,
Dallas

migjam
11-24-2008, 09:24 PM
Thanks Dallas, I sent an email this morning to you.

ClarkC
03-06-2009, 06:53 PM
Dallas:

Thanks for all the info in this thread. A couple of questions:

1) According to the FAQ, a player is not ranked until he has played at least three tournaments that you pick up, and has four wins over ranked players. My question is whether ranked is different from rated here. Rated means at least a 1-star recruit. There are players who are ranked #1500 in their graduating class who are not ranked high enough to be rated as a 1-star recruit. When you are accumulating four wins over ranked players, does that include wins over players ranked #1200, #1300, etc.? It seems that the answer is yes, from my observations. Otherwise, you would have to beat at least four 1-star recruits just to be a 1-star recruit, which would be tough to crack for new players and delay their entry. I think I see players who do not have four wins over star-rated opponents who are 1-star themselves.

2) The FAQ also describes which tournaments you pick up. I understand that you want a connected set of players. Using graph theory terms, a graph of all players in your system, with players as nodes, and edges being match results between players, needs to be a connected graph with no isolated cliques of players who have no connectivity to the larger graph. You would not know how to rate players in that clique.

However, there are lots of tournaments you don't pick up that could have a high percentage of rated players. For example, some non-national level tournament might not have national players in it (i.e. the players have not competed at national level tournaments), but three of the eight players in a certain age group might be 1-star and 2-star players, and two others might be unrated (star-wise) but with a specific numerical rank below 1000. So, the tournament has good connectivity to the existing graph of players. Any thoughts about having a dynamic criterion that picks up these tournaments? The existing dynamic criterion is based on national players.

I also notice that you pick up one age group from a tournament when it satisfies the criteria, but not another age group from the same tournament when it does not. That makes sense. I am not sure it is clear in the FAQ, though.

Just some questions and ideas. I appreciate the site. By the way, I recently got the Advantage membership and I recommend it to others here who want to get detailed looks at other players' activity, how they got their rating, etc.

maui boy
03-11-2009, 03:44 PM
Does anyone know what the (3/10) or (2/26) numbers stand for??

HIGHEST RANKINGS
2009 Recruiting: 1 (3/10)
TennisRPI: 14 (2/26)
2008 Recruiting: 1 (12/30)
TennisRPI: 13 (1/31)
2007 Recruiting: 2 (12/25)
TennisRPI: 5 (4/26)
2006 Recruiting: 1 (4/4)
TennisRPI: 2 (2/16)

hunter
03-11-2009, 04:39 PM
um, the date that the highest ranking occurred

maui boy
03-11-2009, 04:58 PM
Ooops... thanks!

dallasoliver
03-15-2009, 06:14 PM
Hey ClarkC -

Good questions. Let me address them below...

Best,
Dallas

P.S. Nice win by your Wahoos today over the Horns!



1) According to the FAQ, a player is not ranked until he has played at least three tournaments that you pick up, and has four wins over ranked players. My question is whether ranked is different from rated here. Rated means at least a 1-star recruit. There are players who are ranked #1500 in their graduating class who are not ranked high enough to be rated as a 1-star recruit.


Actually, all kids who are ranked are also rated - provided that they are in middle school or high school. We (accidentally) rank elementary school kids in part because many of them play 12s and 14s tournaments, but we don't pay any attention to those rankings.

I would be curious to see someone who is ranked but not rated... could you email me an example? (dallas at tennisrecruiting dot net)


2) The FAQ also describes which tournaments you pick up. I understand that you want a connected set of players. Using graph theory terms, a graph of all players in your system, with players as nodes, and edges being match results between players, needs to be a connected graph with no isolated cliques of players who have no connectivity to the larger graph. You would not know how to rate players in that clique.

However, there are lots of tournaments you don't pick up that could have a high percentage of rated players. For example, some non-national level tournament might not have national players in it (i.e. the players have not competed at national level tournaments), but three of the eight players in a certain age group might be 1-star and 2-star players, and two others might be unrated (star-wise) but with a specific numerical rank below 1000. So, the tournament has good connectivity to the existing graph of players. Any thoughts about having a dynamic criterion that picks up these tournaments? The existing dynamic criterion is based on national players.


Good point, but we have a purpose behind our "national player" criteria. If we use the criteria you specify above, the pool of ranked players will be ever-growing. There is a relatively fixed number of national players (i.e., players who compete in national or designated sectional events) - so this criteria limits the explosion of ranked kids.

That being said, we do try to pull in as many other "good" tournaments as we can - so long as they fit the criteria of having a minimum number of national players.


I also notice that you pick up one age group from a tournament when it satisfies the criteria, but not another age group from the same tournament when it does not. That makes sense. I am not sure it is clear in the FAQ, though.


Correct - and I am not sure it is in the FAQ.


Just some questions and ideas. I appreciate the site. By the way, I recently got the Advantage membership and I recommend it to others here who want to get detailed looks at other players' activity, how they got their rating, etc.

Thanks for the kind words. We are trying to provide a strong product, and we have many ideas for how it will be better in the future.

Kind regards,
Dallas

ClarkC
03-15-2009, 07:31 PM
Actually, all kids who are ranked are also rated - provided that they are in middle school or high school. We (accidentally) rank elementary school kids in part because many of them play 12s and 14s tournaments, but we don't pay any attention to those rankings.

I would be curious to see someone who is ranked but not rated... could you email me an example? (dallas at tennisrecruiting dot net)



This was probably a mistake on my part. I think that at one time I picked up the idea that the 1-star rating only went down to player #1000 in a graduating class, so it would be possible to be ranked #1200 or so but not be a 1-star. Now I see that there are 1-star players who are ranked far below #1000 in their class. I had previously assumed that these players would no longer be 1-star if their ranking stayed below 1000 when next October 1 rolls around.

Is it the case that every player with three ranked wins or more, with three tournaments in the database, becomes a 1-star even if his ranking is #1500? If so, then I just misunderstood.

Thanks for the info.

10isRocs
03-18-2009, 06:24 AM
Dallas,

When you look under a player's record, it lists the ranking for that player; however it does not list the year, so if I am ranked 110 as a freshman but I lose to a Junior ranked 210 it looks like I lost to a player lower ranked than me.

You need to designate a system where you can see what the the player is in, like 110-J for senior the Class year, 110-(2010)...

This would make the lists more accurate

Thanks for letting me give you my two cents

ClarkC
03-18-2009, 07:17 AM
Dallas,

When you look under a player's record, it lists the ranking for that player; however it does not list the year, so if I am ranked 110 as a freshman but I lose to a Junior ranked 210 it looks like I lost to a player lower ranked than me.

You need to designate a system where you can see what the the player is in, like 110-J for senior the Class year, 110-(2010)...

This would make the lists more accurate

Thanks for letting me give you my two cents

I already see this frequently. Do you have any examples where it is not shown? I just checked a Virginia women's recruit for next year, Erin Vierra, as an example. When I look at her detailed record vs. 3-stars, 4-stars, etc., it gives the graduation year unless the year is the same as hers.

10isRocs
03-18-2009, 10:31 AM
I already see this frequently. Do you have any examples where it is not shown? I just checked a Virginia women's recruit for next year, Erin Vierra, as an example. When I look at her detailed record vs. 3-stars, 4-stars, etc., it gives the graduation year unless the year is the same as hers.

Sorry, I should have said this does not show up under the "Activity" when you look at a particular tournament played, not the "Activity Overview"
when you just look at the players record by *'s.

So if you look at a tourney that a player was in and TR lists the results for that tourney in "Activity", it is hard to tell the year of the player in that only the ranking shows...it should translate like in "Activity Overview"

SoCal10s
03-18-2009, 10:38 AM
how do you rate the monthly top 100 ? is it done by win/lose ratio ? and ranking against other kids out of the age group.. for example if a kid plays up in an age group and wins...

dallasoliver
03-18-2009, 06:28 PM
Dallas,

When you look under a player's record, it lists the ranking for that player; however it does not list the year, so if I am ranked 110 as a freshman but I lose to a Junior ranked 210 it looks like I lost to a player lower ranked than me.

You need to designate a system where you can see what the the player is in, like 110-J for senior the Class year, 110-(2010)...


Hi 10isRocs -

Thanks for the feedback. This is something that we have noticed in the past, but 210-J or 210-(2010) both seem like a mouth-full. Will think about this one some more.

Best,
Dallas

dallasoliver
03-18-2009, 06:31 PM
how do you rate the monthly top 100 ? is it done by win/lose ratio ? and ranking against other kids out of the age group.. for example if a kid plays up in an age group and wins...

Hi SoCal10s -

We have a points-based system that is described in our FAQ:

http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/about/Hot100.asp

Let me know if you have more questions.

Best,
Dallas

kctennis1005
03-18-2009, 08:28 PM
Hi 10isRocs -

Thanks for the feedback. This is something that we have noticed in the past, but 210-J or 210-(2010) both seem like a mouth-full. Will think about this one some more.

Best,
Dallas

i agree it sounds like a mouthful, but maybe this is something u can do instead on the recent activity....where at the top it says round, wins, losses, score u can add a tap that says "year" in between round and win so that it reads

Round Grade Wins Losses Score
128 2009 Kevin Cox ( 208 ) 6-0, 6-0

TennisTaxi
03-19-2009, 11:13 AM
i agree it sounds like a mouthful, but maybe this is something u can do instead on the recent activity....where at the top it says round, wins, losses, score u can add a tap that says "year" in between round and win so that it reads

Round Grade Wins Losses Score
128 2009 Kevin Cox ( 208 ) 6-0, 6-0

I agree Dallas , this would really help clarify results on your site...especially for kids who play up...also Kevin, I like your 6-0 6-0 example..lol:)

10isRocs
03-26-2009, 05:42 AM
Dallas,

When a coach looks at your profile, can that coach see the other coaches that have also looked you profile?

dallasoliver
03-26-2009, 05:24 PM
Dallas,

When a coach looks at your profile, can that coach see the other coaches that have also looked you profile?

Good question. The answer is no - coaches cannot see what other coaches have looked at your profile page. Coaches do have access to an additional page for all players with their contact and academic information.

Coaches do have an analagous feature when it comes to statistics... They can see which players have looked at their team pages. Many coaches have told us that they ended up making contact with players who they noticed were checking them out.

I hope this helps.

Best,
Dallas

10isRocs
03-26-2009, 07:56 PM
Coaches do have an analagous feature when it comes to statistics... They can see which players have looked at their team pages. Many coaches have told us that they ended up making contact with players who they noticed were checking them out.

I hope this helps.

Best,
Dallas


Wow, I didn't know that and I don't think most players who use your site known that either...I better start logging into those team pages!!

TennisTaxi
03-31-2009, 06:41 AM
When you look at the page with Coaching Visits, how come some coaches are listed by "Name" and "School" and others by "Men"s Coach: and "Division"?

Tennisprov1
03-31-2009, 07:13 AM
Dallas....I agree with a post listed above in somehow providing allowances to those players playing older players. Currently, I believe the system does not allow for that. I currently coach a player who is the Class of 2014, but has been playing sectional 18s for the past year for developmental reasons. Of course, her ranking continues to drop because she has some losses to lower level players who happen to be 4-5 years older than her.

She is now top 100 in the section in USTA rankings and beginning to compete against higher ranked players and getting some wins, but it will still bring her tennisrecruiting.net ranking down.

Any thoughts on that? Just curious. Her name is Kirsten Ward if you want to look at her specifics. That may help in providing some allowances for that. Thanks.....

Roddickalltheway
03-31-2009, 07:17 AM
they only change your star once a year

Tom C
04-02-2009, 08:24 AM
Hi Dallas,
I see Quinzi is no longer ranked, any reason why? Thanks.

catfish2424
04-02-2009, 10:34 AM
this site would be great if they updated the star system more, and if they actually got all the tournaments it says I am 17-19 when on usta i am 55-32

dallasoliver
04-03-2009, 07:15 PM
When you look at the page with Coaching Visits, how come some coaches are listed by "Name" and "School" and others by "Men"s Coach: and "Division"?

Hey Taxi -

We allow coaches to determine how they show up on the statistics. They can opt to show up as anonymous - e.g., "Men's Coach, XYZ League, Division III".

Best,
Dallas

dallasoliver
04-04-2009, 03:18 AM
Dallas....I agree with a post listed above in somehow providing allowances to those players playing older players. Currently, I believe the system does not allow for that. I currently coach a player who is the Class of 2014, but has been playing sectional 18s for the past year for developmental reasons.

I will try to address this in more detail after Signing Week - we have a lot going on until then.

But in short - our ranking system is designed to give credit to players for "playing up". Our system assigns rank values to all players independent of graduation year, so beating the #200 senior generally gives you a lot more credit than beating the #200 eighth-grader.

Now, our system does need your player to record some wins, of course. But the College Recruiting List ranking system is designed to handle exactly the case you describe - it is a principal design point.

I'll try to write more on this later - but there is probably material in our FAQ on this.

Best,
Dallas

region2champion
04-04-2009, 03:21 AM
Hi Dallas,
I see Quinzi is no longer ranked, any reason why? Thanks.

He's only played one tournament year to date.

dallasoliver
04-04-2009, 03:27 AM
Hi Dallas,
I see Quinzi is no longer ranked, any reason why? Thanks.

Short answer - not enough junior tournaments that we count in our rankings. It looks like he has not been playing much in the U.S., and while we do include some tournaments on foreign soil, we only include ITF-sanctioned tournaments with significant US participation.

dallasoliver
04-04-2009, 03:37 AM
this site would be great if they updated the star system more, and if they actually got all the tournaments it says I am 17-19 when on usta i am 55-32

We actually use a superset of the tournaments that the USTA uses in its national ranking. Are you 55-32 on the USTA national list? Or 55-32 on your USTA Section or District list? I'll bet it's a local list rather than the national list. If I'm wrong, please emal me directly at

dallas at tennisrecruiting dot net

You can see the tournaments we include here:

http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/faq.asp#Rankings-J

As for updating the Stars more frequently - it is on our radar - and something we do plan on doing at some point... but the ratings are very expensive for us to do from a time perspective... they absorb all our company resources for an entire month to make sure all the data is correct. (Believe me, we have to get it right by doing many manual checks - people have threatened us with lawsuits for getting things wrong, and it is difficult for us to make changes after the fact for the same reason!)

With all of our other efforts (e.g., regular content, Countdown to Signing Day, etc.), we don't have a second quiet month to do a second rating right now. Hopefully we can bring on some additional help in the future so that we can do a second rating, but our revenues need to grow more before that will be possible.

I hope this helps... Believe be, more frequent ratings is a request we hear all the time!

Best,
Dallas

TennisTaxi
05-12-2009, 10:40 AM
If a Junior plays in a Men's Open, do those results show up on TRN?

sliderman365
05-12-2009, 12:19 PM
hey dallas i got a question
how am i a two star when theres kid that are 4 and 3 stars and i have a better national and sectional ranking then them?

tenniscrazed
05-12-2009, 12:22 PM
If a Junior plays in a Men's Open, do those results show up on TRN?


I'm almost sure those results are not included in any of TRN's data.

sliderman365
05-12-2009, 12:23 PM
We actually use a superset of the tournaments that the USTA uses in its national ranking. Are you 55-32 on the USTA national list? Or 55-32 on your USTA Section or District list? I'll bet it's a local list rather than the national list. If I'm wrong, please emal me directly at

dallas at tennisrecruiting dot net

You can see the tournaments we include here:

http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/faq.asp#Rankings-J

As for updating the Stars more frequently - it is on our radar - and something we do plan on doing at some point... but the ratings are very expensive for us to do from a time perspective... they absorb all our company resources for an entire month to make sure all the data is correct. (Believe me, we have to get it right by doing many manual checks - people have threatened us with lawsuits for getting things wrong, and it is difficult for us to make changes after the fact for the same reason!)

With all of our other efforts (e.g., regular content, Countdown to Signing Day, etc.), we don't have a second quiet month to do a second rating right now. Hopefully we can bring on some additional help in the future so that we can do a second rating, but our revenues need to grow more before that will be possible.

I hope this helps... Believe be, more frequent ratings is a request we hear all the time!

Best,
Dallas

hey dallas i got a question
how am i a two star when theres kid that are 4 and 3 stars and i have a better national and sectional ranking then them?

ClarkC
05-12-2009, 04:42 PM
hey dallas i got a question
how am i a two star when theres kid that are 4 and 3 stars and i have a better national and sectional ranking then them?

1) National and sectional rankings are generally on a points-per-round basis, not head-to-head.

2) Star ratings are updated yearly.

If these reasons don't explain it, maybe you could give specific examples, although that reveals identities.

sliderman365
05-12-2009, 06:01 PM
yeah i dont want to say like im a 2 star and i have a winning record over 1, 2, and 3 stars and okay over 4 i just think they should at least update it more then once a year

dallasoliver
05-12-2009, 06:10 PM
If a Junior plays in a Men's Open, do those results show up on TRN?

The other posters beat me to it and are correct... we do not include results from Men's Opens and the like at TennisRecruiting.net. We only include junior tournaments in the USTA 12s, 14s, 16s, and 18s divisions and a selection of ITF events. There is a link to the FAQ about exactly which tournaments a few posts up.

Why don't we include those tournaments? Because our system is a head-to-head system that needs significant cross-play to determine the quality of the opponents. For example, suppose Players A and B both win tournaments where NONE of the other players are juniors. Maybe one of the tournaments is a Men's Open tournament and the second is a local club event... but our ranking system cannot possibly know that. So we end up just throwing these events out.

By restricting ourselves to USTA and ITF tournaments where man of the participants are juniors in our ranking system, we ensure significant cross-play.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions.

Best,
Dallas

dallasoliver
05-12-2009, 06:16 PM
hey dallas i got a question
how am i a two star when theres kid that are 4 and 3 stars and i have a better national and sectional ranking then them?

Hi sliderman -

There are many reasons why, and Clark got two of the most important.

Briefly...

(1) Our rankings are independent of the USTAs... and do not always line up with the USTA rankings because the two ranking systems (USTA points-per-round and TRN head-to-head system) are very different.

(2) The ratings are based on the College Recruiting List rankings at a specific point in time - at the end of August. So in this case, the ratings are based on the rankings from August 2008. As time goes on, the ratings do not line up with the current rankings.

(3) We rank by graduation year. Are you comparing yourself with other people in your class? Or maybe people in a class below you? Typically, the #300 player in the sophomore class is better than, say, the #295 in the freshman class.

These are just a few general comments... if you send me an email, I can compare specific kids.

As always, I hope this helps.

Best,
Dallas

dallasoliver
05-12-2009, 06:22 PM
yeah i dont want to say like im a 2 star and i have a winning record over 1, 2, and 3 stars and okay over 4 i just think they should at least update it more then once a year

While I agree with you, we just don't have the resources to do this right now. As I mention in an earlier post...

As for updating the Stars more frequently - it is on our radar - and something we do plan on doing at some point... but the ratings are very expensive for us to do from a time perspective... they absorb all our company resources for an entire month to make sure all the data is correct. (Believe me, we have to get it right by doing many manual checks - people have threatened us with lawsuits for getting things wrong, and it is difficult for us to make changes after the fact for the same reason!)

With all of our other efforts (e.g., regular content, Countdown to Signing Day, etc.), we don't have a second quiet month to do a second rating right now. Hopefully we can bring on some additional help in the future so that we can do a second rating, but our revenues need to grow more before that will be possible.

Again, we REALLY WANT to do two ratings a year - it would be good for business and address a concern our users have. But we simply don't have the time and bodies to do it right now. To do it would probably involve dropping Countdown to Signing Day... or the Recruiting Class Rankings... or some other feature that we currently provide. We really don't want to go there.

I hope this helps.

Best,
Dallas

joshburger
05-17-2009, 12:08 PM
dallas, i recently purchased the recruiting advantage and noticed that i had 1 coach visit. intreaged, i checked who it was.Where the name of the coach's school was supposed to be it just said "CCC". When i clicked on it, it brought me to the CCC conference page on the website. is there away for me to check what team the coach was for who checked my profile..... thanks!!

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
05-18-2009, 01:56 PM
It was from "Spell U"... intrigued?

10isRocs
05-18-2009, 02:23 PM
It was from "Spell U"... intrigued?

OK, play nice.

From what I know, on TRN some coaches opt to only show up by conference and not as the school they represent.

ClarkC
05-18-2009, 07:11 PM
OK, play nice.

From what I know, on TRN some coaches opt to only show up by conference and not as the school they represent.

Yes, my son's page was visited by a coach named "Coach" from a school that is actually the name of a conference. Some coaches want to be anonymous on there.

joshburger
05-19-2009, 07:34 PM
How do u know that??? Because spell u isn't in the ccc conference...

dancraig
05-19-2009, 08:22 PM
Dallas:
I know a player who is ranked nationally at about 100 on your site and has a USTA national standing of about 500. Is this possible or does it sound like an error.
Thanks for your answer.

ClarkC
05-22-2009, 11:29 AM
Dallas:
I know a player who is ranked nationally at about 100 on your site and has a USTA national standing of about 500. Is this possible or does it sound like an error.
Thanks for your answer.

What is his sectional ranking? It could be he has a very good head-to-head record in sectional tournaments over highly ranked players, boosting his USTA sectional ranking and his TRN ranking without helping his USTA national ranking at all.

dallasoliver
05-22-2009, 09:07 PM
dallas, i recently purchased the recruiting advantage and noticed that i had 1 coach visit. i checked who it was. Where the name of the coach's school was supposed to be it just said "CCC". When i clicked on it, it brought me to the CCC conference page on the website. is there away for me to check what team the coach was for who checked my profile

Good question. We allow coaches to choose whether or not they want to reveal their identities or remain anonymous. For example, NCAA Champion Duke Blue Devil coach Jamie Ashworth could choose to show up as:

Jamie Ashworth - Duke Women

or

Women's Coach - ACC

I hope this helps.

Best,
Dallas

dallasoliver
05-22-2009, 09:15 PM
I know a player who is ranked nationally at about 100 on your site and has a USTA national standing of about 500. Is this possible or does it sound like an error.

Once again, Clark has done an excellent job answering, but let me add a few points...

(1) The USTA and TRN ranking systems are completely different and reward different behaviors.

(2) TRN treats all tournaments the same. If Player A beats Player B in a tournament that we count, then Player A earns ranking credit regardless of tournament. That is not the case in the USTA system - A beating B in a Level 1 tournament will earn a lot more points than when A beats B in a Level 3.

(3) The USTA has completely different rankings for national, sectional, and state/district rankings. A player can be ranked #1 nationally but be unranked in his/her district. TRN has one national list - the regional and state rankings are simple filters of the national list.

I hope this helps.

- Dallas

dancraig
05-22-2009, 09:40 PM
Once again, Clark has done an excellent job answering, but let me add a few points...

(1) The USTA and TRN ranking systems are completely different and reward different behaviors.

(2) TRN treats all tournaments the same. If Player A beats Player B in a tournament that we count, then Player A earns ranking credit regardless of tournament. That is not the case in the USTA system - A beating B in a Level 1 tournament will earn a lot more points than when A beats B in a Level 3.

(3) The USTA has completely different rankings for national, sectional, and state/district rankings. A player can be ranked #1 nationally but be unranked in his/her district. TRN has one national list - the regional and state rankings are simple filters of the national list.

I hope this helps.

- Dallas

Thank-you, Dallas.

ClarkC
07-17-2009, 07:01 PM
Dallas:

Here is a question about the tournaments used in your rankings. From your FAQ:


Tournaments that count are in 5 groups:

1. ITF grade A,1,2,3 plus any ITF tournament played in the USA.
2. USTA National Schedule tournaments.
3. Sectional tournaments that are designated to count for USTA National rankings (12 per section).
4. Historically strong tournaments where in the previous year over 60% of the players are National Players. We currenty do not have a published list of these, but this is on our list of future additions to the site.
5. Dynamically determined events in tournaments where at least 30% of the players in the event are National Players, minimum two. For boys' and girls' 12 and under events the percentage requirement is relaxed to 20% since group 2 tournaments in this age division have smaller draws.

We term a "National Player" as any player that has played in at least one of our group 2 or group 3 events in the 12 months preceding the tournament in question.

You can determine ahead of time if a tournament is in group 1-4, but group 5 tournaments, which are the bulk of them, are determined after the tournaments are played.

I just reviewed this FAQ because my son won a tournament that had 10 players in the draw, and 6 of the 10 were 1-star or 2-star in your database, but they were not National Players. They play national players at sectional level 3 and 4 tournaments, so they have results against national players.

It seems like the objective of having lots of connectivity in the graph of your database is accomplished when 50% or more of the players in a tournament are 1-star and above. This is not like picking up a local tournament with a single 1-star player and a bunch of players you don't know anything about. I wonder if it would enhance the completeness of the database to include tournaments with so many rated players in them.

dallasoliver
07-17-2009, 09:29 PM
I just reviewed this FAQ because my son won a tournament that had 10 players in the draw, and 6 of the 10 were 1-star or 2-star in your database, but they were not National Players. They play national players at sectional level 3 and 4 tournaments, so they have results against national players.

It seems like the objective of having lots of connectivity in the graph of your database is accomplished when 50% or more of the players in a tournament are 1-star and above. This is not like picking up a local tournament with a single 1-star player and a bunch of players you don't know anything about. I wonder if it would enhance the completeness of the database to include tournaments with so many rated players in them.

Great question. And we actually used the approach you describe during our first couple of years: we used all tournaments where a certain minimum percentage of the kids were ranked.

Why did we change? What is the problem?

The basic problem with this approach is that the population of ranked players will grow without bound - and there is "creep" towards ranking the entire population - and including every tournament under the sun. That ends up not being a good thing for head-to-head systems...

Take Texas for example. Like many states, Texas has different levels of tournament: novice, champ, etc. (Apologies to Texas - I know that I am getting this terminology wrong.) When we used the approach you describe, our ranking system started ranking "tweener" novices who were playing up in some champs tournaments, and then the creep led us to include more and more novice tournaments and rank more and more novices. Although there was some cross-play, for the most part the novices and the champs were isolated from one another. And although the champs as a rule were much better than the novices, some of the novices with gaudy records were getting higher rankings than the champs in our lists. Including results like these will always lead to problems in a head-to-head system...

By using national players as the standard, we ensure that all tournaments have a certain quality level for all time. There is no creep, because the size of the pool of national players is essentially fixed.

Anyway... this response probably includes more detail than you wanted. But these are the basic reasons why we use national player percentage in our tournament selection.

Best regards,
Dallas

VA10S
07-22-2009, 03:21 AM
My son completed play at the Boys 16s Intersectionals event in Shreveport, LA last week. He notched 3 decent wins but I don't see the results reflected in the latest TRN rankings. According to criterion No. 2 in the FAQ, shouldn't this event count since it is a USTA National Schedule tournament? If it is not included in the TRN algorithm, what is the reason for the exclusion?

My son is also scheduled to play the Boys 18s National Team Championship in early August. Will this tournament be included in the TRN rankings? Like the Boys 16 Intersectionals, it is also on the USTA National Tournament Schedule. Thanks for responding.

dallasoliver
07-22-2009, 04:03 AM
My son completed play at the Boys 16s Intersectionals event in Shreveport, LA last week. He notched 3 decent wins but I don't see the results reflected in the latest TRN rankings. According to criterion No. 2 in the FAQ, shouldn't this event count since it is a USTA National Schedule tournament? If it is not included in the TRN algorithm, what is the reason for the exclusion?

VA10S -

Results for weekend tournaments must be available before our cut-off time (on Sunday night) to make the current week's rankings. Since we freeze all data on Sunday night, many events have a one-week lag before they make it into our rankings.

But those results should indeed count. Check back next week.

Best,
Dallas

TennisTaxi
07-29-2009, 05:48 AM
Dallas,

Last week my son played in two local USTA Open tournaments, his record for the week was 5-1, with one of the wins over a player ranked 5 spots higher than him and his loss was to a player ranked significantly higher than him. However, his overall ranking dropped 11 positions when the rankings came out on Tuesday...does this make sense?

Thanks

10isplayer
07-29-2009, 06:48 AM
Tennis recruiting doesn't add Men's Open tournaments into their calculations

dallasoliver
07-29-2009, 08:11 AM
Dallas,

Last week my son played in two local USTA Open tournaments, his record for the week was 5-1, with one of the wins over a player ranked 5 spots higher than him and his loss was to a player ranked significantly higher than him. However, his overall ranking dropped 11 positions when the rankings came out on Tuesday...does this make sense?

Thanks

In general, beating people above you helps - and losing to people above you does not hurt. So no, the activity that you describe above - your son posting that 5-1 record - when taken in a vacuum, certainly does not seem to indicate that your son should drop 11 positions in the rankings.

But, of course, there is no vacuum, and the system is a much more complicated beast. A couple of factors are (1) ranking changes for all opponents that your son played and (2) results from last year dropping off your son's record - and everyone else's record, for that matter.

There are so many variables in the ranking system that it is often difficult to predict what will happen - particularly in the summer when there is so much activity from this year (new results each week) and activity dropping off from last year (many old results dropping off each week).

Another factor is that your son and those ranked right around him might be very close in their ranking values. There is often only a sliver of difference between the #300 kid and the #310 kid - and they might flip-flop from week to week depending on new results coming in / old results falling off.

Another factor might be that other kids ranked close to your son also had strong weeks... this is the time of year where there are many tournaments at all levels, and so there is a lot of movement.

Still another factor is that perhaps some new kids corrected their graduation years or became eligible and are ranked above your son. Just this week, there is a Blue Chip senior girl who popped back into the rankings after playing enough tournaments to become eligibile again. If there is a new player coming in at, say, #12, then everyone #13 and below will see their rank value drop one spot.

Rather than look at changes from week to week, I always look at the players ranked right above a player to see if there is a clear-cut case where Player A should be ranked ahead of Player B but is not... I have looked at many of these cases - some of them that came from readers on this board - and I have not yet seen a clear-cut case where our system is behaving poorly. I have always been able to make an argument for the ordering that our system produces.

I hope this helps.

Best,
Dallas

TennisTaxi
07-30-2009, 06:07 AM
Thanks for your response:)

In general, beating people above you helps - and losing to people above you does not hurt. So no, the activity that you describe above - your son posting that 5-1 record - when taken in a vacuum, certainly does not seem to indicate that your son should drop 11 positions in the rankings.

But, of course, there is no vacuum, and the system is a much more complicated beast. A couple of factors are (1) ranking changes for all opponents that your son played and (2) results from last year dropping off your son's record - and everyone else's record, for that matter.

There are so many variables in the ranking system that it is often difficult to predict what will happen - particularly in the summer when there is so much activity from this year (new results each week) and activity dropping off from last year (many old results dropping off each week).

Another factor is that your son and those ranked right around him might be very close in their ranking values. There is often only a sliver of difference between the #300 kid and the #310 kid - and they might flip-flop from week to week depending on new results coming in / old results falling off.

Another factor might be that other kids ranked close to your son also had strong weeks... this is the time of year where there are many tournaments at all levels, and so there is a lot of movement.

Still another factor is that perhaps some new kids corrected their graduation years or became eligible and are ranked above your son. Just this week, there is a Blue Chip senior girl who popped back into the rankings after playing enough tournaments to become eligibile again. If there is a new player coming in at, say, #12, then everyone #13 and below will see their rank value drop one spot.

Rather than look at changes from week to week, I always look at the players ranked right above a player to see if there is a clear-cut case where Player A should be ranked ahead of Player B but is not... I have looked at many of these cases - some of them that came from readers on this board - and I have not yet seen a clear-cut case where our system is behaving poorly. I have always been able to make an argument for the ordering that our system produces.

I hope this helps.

Best,
Dallas

SoCal10s
07-30-2009, 06:46 AM
Hi Dallas : I'm following a player on TRN,he played up in age group and didn't do that well and his ranking dropped ... how do you re-flect the fact that he played up and still his underclass ratings went down because now his win/lost record got 2 additional loses?

ClarkC
07-30-2009, 07:33 AM
Hi Dallas : I'm following a player on TRN,he played up in age group and didn't do that well and his ranking dropped ... how do you re-flect the fact that he played up and still his underclass ratings went down because now his win/lost record got 2 additional loses?

Try reading Dallas' last, lengthy post. How do you know the drop was even related to his two losses?

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
07-30-2009, 09:25 AM
I agree with Clark
I don't think we want to rub the "Dallas lamp" over the same stuff covered over and over- He may not answer when called on deck.

We all know how important a tyke's move of ten points on the ratings means in the scheme of things to some parents- but it all evens out.

dallasoliver
09-01-2010, 09:55 AM
Since this question was among the most frequently-asked, I wanted to mention a change to our TRN policy here...

Effective 2010-11, TRN will begin publishing its Top Prospects Ratings (i.e., Blue Chips, 5 Stars, 4 Stars, etc.) twice a year - once in the Fall (October) and once in the late winter / early spring (month TBD).

We are also making some other tweaks that many people have asked for on this board. You can read all about it here:

http://tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=1022

Happy to discuss here, but please do not inundate us with questions to support@tennisrecruiting.net. Since the article went up on the site on Monday, we have had many people asking questions like, "What will the thresholds be?" "Will my daughter be a 3 Star?" At this point, we want our users to submit any corrections they see on their records - but to be patient with asking specific questions about their children. We are still entering data, correcting data, and working out some of the thresholds to ensure that everything is fair without inflating the numbers too much. (After all, our goal is not to increase the number of Blue Chips to 50 or 5 Stars to 200 - but rather to make these ratings more fair - and more predictable in the future.)

We will publish more information about the ratings once we finalize things - but all of TRN is busy during September doing these ratings - and making sure that they are as error-free as possible.

Best regards,
Dallas

dallasoliver
11-08-2010, 05:00 AM
Some of you might be interested...

TennisRecruiting.net is running its special coverage of Fall Signing Week 2010 this Monday through Friday - with 12 articles including commitment announcements from 7 Blue Chip seniors.

All the articles are available free all week - come check us out:

http://TennisRecruiting.net

Best regards,
Dallas

glamslova
11-15-2010, 03:23 PM
Youre very lucky, Shaun You get to see quality tennis plus two up and coming players - Hendler and Tomic.


Im most pleased for Chloe - shell gain a lot of experience from this.
_________________
http://www.ps2netdrivers.net/manual/dirt.devil.m083424/