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View Full Version : Poll: How many of you will be buying the K factor sticks?


sureshs
12-05-2006, 07:46 PM
How many of you will be buying the K factor sticks, why, and what will it replace?

vkartikv
12-05-2006, 07:47 PM
Well I'll buy it because people will think its the 'K'artik factor racquet.

TheSnowMan
12-05-2006, 07:48 PM
I will... and I don't know why.

sureshs
12-05-2006, 07:48 PM
Well I'll buy it because people will think its the 'K'artik factor racquet.

You responded even b4 I had the poll ready! Now go back and vote!

looseswing
12-05-2006, 08:20 PM
I'm going to, seems to be a better version of the n90 (at least to me) based on CC's descriptions, and I don't think a demo will be available quickly so it seems best to go buy the darned thing if I can convince my parents to.

TokyopunK
12-05-2006, 08:24 PM
I'll be getting a K90 Federer, of course, and a K95 X edition because I am fond of the extra half inch on racquets.

AJK1
12-05-2006, 08:31 PM
I want a racquet with Feds sig on it. It will become a classic and probably the biggest selling racquet in history!

Faber
12-05-2006, 08:34 PM
I'll be demoing the K90 in a couple of weeks and I'll have a decision then to replace my n6.1 tour 90s or not.

nickarnold2000
12-05-2006, 08:44 PM
I think a demo is in order

Pushmaster
12-05-2006, 09:51 PM
The K90 is the only one I'm somewhat interested in. It would be nice to actually be able to feel the ball on the strings with it (unlike the Tour and nCode 90).

power_play21
12-05-2006, 09:56 PM
I will... and I don't know why.

ahhahah dude this had me laughing for like a good 6 or 7 minutes... and i don't know why lol

BreakPoint
12-05-2006, 10:09 PM
sureshs,

You forgot to include the K95 Team on your list of choices.

BTW, I voted for K90, of course. :D

aznspongehead
12-05-2006, 10:44 PM
Well, from the looks of it right now I really want to... but I also find it a little hard to deny the fact that I really don't even need it, my current racket is just fine... well I don't know... but I really want the k90.

Robbie_1988
12-05-2006, 11:13 PM
Not really planning to buy it but will demo it just for curiosity's sake. Will only buy it and replace my Ncodes if it has qualities that just BLOW ME AWAY AND I CAN'T RESIST NOT HAVING IT. But if the improvements are only minor then i'll stick with my Ncodes.

Duzza
12-05-2006, 11:29 PM
I think I might try one...just for fun.

OrangeOne
12-05-2006, 11:34 PM
I'll be demoing the K90 in a couple of weeks and I'll have a decision then to replace my n6.1 tour 90s or not.

I think a demo is in order

Not really planning to buy it but will demo it just for curiosity's sake.

Thank god for the sanity - I was wondering from the CC thread how many people were going to throw all good racquet-buying "technique" out the window and just buy it untested, untried, not-demo'd, etc.

I'm also in the "I want to demo it" camp (probably the 95 for me, but I'm disappointed to read CC's initial review of it....oh well, there's always Yonex to continue with).

OrangeOne
12-05-2006, 11:38 PM
Wow - there's already 21 people claiming they're buying a K90 - bizarre, as it's spec'd as a 4.0 or 4.5+ frame, and yet when those polls kick around saying "what rating are you", these boards usually seem to average in the 3.x's, with relatively not many 4.5s and above.

Now I know those buying this stick are more likely to respond to this poll, but still, seems there's plenty of "I want to be Federer, and I'm willing to sacrifice my game to use his racquet" going on out there!

psamp14
12-06-2006, 12:05 AM
i will for sure demo the k factor 90...and by the way its being described and from CC's great review...i see myself buying 2 of these...replacing my very young ncode 90s, but i wont sell them...as if miraculously i break the strings of both my new k factors, the ncode 90 is the best backup...unless there's an unlimited supply of k factor 90s!

PimpMyGame
12-06-2006, 12:24 AM
Wow - there's already 21 people claiming they're buying a K90 - bizarre, as it's spec'd as a 4.0 or 4.5+ frame, and yet when those polls kick around saying "what rating are you", these boards usually seem to average in the 3.x's, with relatively not many 4.5s and above.

Now I know those buying this stick are more likely to respond to this poll, but still, seems there's plenty of "I want to be Federer, and I'm willing to sacrifice my game to use his racquet" going on out there!

So I guess there will be a load of people out there with their new Wilsons unable to hit the sweet spot? Our gain, OrangeOne.

I've just switched rackets so for me it's a no but I'll demo it to see what the fuss is about. However I owned an n6.1 Tour which I couldn't get on with (too harsh) so it would be interesting to feel for myself what the difference is like.

OrangeOne
12-06-2006, 12:29 AM
So I guess there will be a load of people out there with their new Wilsons unable to hit the sweet spot? Our gain, OrangeOne

:D... You make a very good point!

Duzza
12-06-2006, 12:32 AM
Wow - there's already 21 people claiming they're buying a K90 - bizarre, as it's spec'd as a 4.0 or 4.5+ frame, and yet when those polls kick around saying "what rating are you", these boards usually seem to average in the 3.x's, with relatively not many 4.5s and above.

Now I know those buying this stick are more likely to respond to this poll, but still, seems there's plenty of "I want to be Federer, and I'm willing to sacrifice my game to use his racquet" going on out there!

I hear you loud and clear. Meh, their loss.

BigServer1
12-06-2006, 12:46 AM
I'll demo for sure, will I buy? I doubt it, but I am intrigued to see the changes up close and personal. The slightly more flexible feel intrests me as well.

nickb
12-06-2006, 01:53 AM
Im also gonna demo but i doubt i will buy. Or rather hoping i dont have to....

Im interrested to what the changes feel like but will probably prefer the feel of my n90's as i like stiff racquets.

Nick

milo
12-06-2006, 03:02 AM
at least i'm going to buy one. the k90

BlackJesus
12-06-2006, 04:22 AM
I'll buy the Tour if they'll market the real Fed's stick but it wuold be impossible

nickarnold2000
12-06-2006, 04:47 AM
I just bought 3 rds mids 2 months ago and am really enjoying the "crispness" and spin this racket produces. The new k-90 will have to wow me to the extreme before I switch again!

sureshs
12-06-2006, 06:27 AM
sureshs,

You forgot to include the K95 Team on your list of choices.

BTW, I voted for K90, of course. :D

Forgot about that. Isn't it basically a tweener?

sureshs
12-06-2006, 06:30 AM
I think I will demo the K90 (which will be going like hot cakes so it will take a while) just to see what Federer's (this time real) racquet feels like.

Tennis Man
12-06-2006, 06:59 AM
I'm NOT in a rush. Although I voted K90 "Federer", I'm not going to rush to the store, stay in line overnight to get one brand new :). They will be around for a few year at least, eh?

I will wait until soneone gets tired of the hype and unloads a few to me for 1/2 price. Basically, I will get 2 for $200 shipped. Waiting for offers :).

jackson vile
12-06-2006, 09:21 AM
The problem is that Wilson keeps coming up with these weird materials when all people want is real graphite.

IMO it is just stupid how the just keep shuffling around the specs on the Tour90s, just slight minor changes each year lol.


So is it really worth it to sell all your rackets and get rid of the racket that you have spent so much time getting accustomed to and have had so much sucess with just to blow a whole bunch more money on the latest GREATEST:roll: thing?

You are wasting money, time, could messup your tennis, hope you don't compete or you can kiss that good by ect.

I guarantee either people will be putting it in their closet or will be pretending/hating it on the court.

I say stick with what you have, and save yourself a lot of trouble don't let the businesses play you like that

StunLock
12-06-2006, 09:50 AM
it is obvious that cc'c reviews have a big influence on the results of this poll

Tennis Man
12-06-2006, 09:58 AM
You surpise me. WOW, where is it coming from? Just your opinion? Not very constructive, IMHO.

The problem is that Wilson keeps coming up with these weird materials when all people want is real graphite.

IMO it is just stupid how the just keep shuffling around the specs on the Tour90s, just slight minor changes each year lol.

I think it's called EVOLUTION. Otherwise we would still play with wooden racquets (some still do), use wooden skies, s/boards, hockey sticks, etc.

I do like 100% braided graphite, though.


So is it really worth it to sell all your rackets and get rid of the racket that you have spent so much time getting accustomed to and have had so much sucess with just to blow a whole bunch more money on the latest GREATEST:roll: thing?

It's not mandatory and not the GREATEST. It all depends on how many ppl here get brainwashed by the marketing vs how many will actually appreciate and adopt the new technology to their game.

StunLock
12-06-2006, 10:14 AM
if it was directed towards my comment (EDIT: ok, i re-read, maybe not), i dont see how mine was not constructive.

n61 95, better yet lets say mp frames in general, has a bigger player basis than ntour (or any mid frames) on these boards, yet the poll result shows most people would either buy a ktour or just pass on the k series when most of us havent even seen/demo'd the k line. what do people base their decisions on then? reviews. and there hasnt been many out there.

drakulie
12-06-2006, 10:23 AM
For all you guys who are going to buy it, if you have PS85's for sale let me know!!

KFwinds
12-06-2006, 10:41 AM
Wow - there's already 21 people claiming they're buying a K90 - bizarre, as it's spec'd as a 4.0 or 4.5+ frame, and yet when those polls kick around saying "what rating are you", these boards usually seem to average in the 3.x's, with relatively not many 4.5s and above.

Now I know those buying this stick are more likely to respond to this poll, but still, seems there's plenty of "I want to be Federer, and I'm willing to sacrifice my game to use his racquet" going on out there!

Yep - this is exactly what I eluded to in the other "K-Krap" thread...

KFwinds
12-06-2006, 10:44 AM
So I guess there will be a load of people out there with their new Wilsons unable to hit the sweet spot? Our gain, OrangeOne.

Also my thoughts exactly ;)

Tennis Man
12-06-2006, 10:49 AM
Wow - there's already 21 people claiming they're buying a K90 - bizarre, as it's spec'd as a 4.0 or 4.5+ frame, and yet when those polls kick around saying "what rating are you", these boards usually seem to average in the 3.x's, with relatively not many 4.5s and above.

Now I know those buying this stick are more likely to respond to this poll, but still, seems there's plenty of "I want to be Federer, and I'm willing to sacrifice my game to use his racquet" going on out there!

yeah, we should have a new poll on these boards:

Are you a Federer wanna-be but play with Babolat? ..................90%
Just curious what Federer plays with? ......................................9%
Can you really play with Wilson Tour 90 frames? .........................1%

sureshs
12-06-2006, 10:53 AM
I say stick with what you have, and save yourself a lot of trouble don't let the businesses play you like that

Hehehe - nice unintended pun - hehehehe

drakulie
12-06-2006, 10:56 AM
So I guess there will be a load of people out there with their new Wilsons unable to hit the sweet spot? Our gain, OrangeOne.

The majority of people who play tennis can't hit the sweetspot with ANY racquet, so you aren't saying much.

There are a lot more recreational low level players than there are good players. Just look at any stadium where pros play. There are 2 good players, and about 15,000 low level recreational players watching them.

federermcenroeagassi
12-06-2006, 12:30 PM
ill try it to replace my ps tour 90

BreakPoint
12-06-2006, 01:36 PM
Forgot about that. Isn't it basically a tweener?
Yes, but it's still a new K-Six-One racquet and many people here do like tweeners.

I think it'll also be Wilson's excuse NOT to bring the Asian version of the K-90 (assuming there will be one) to the U.S. since they can point to this lighter frame, but this frame is vastly different from an Asian K-90 as it's a 95, is much lighter, and I think has a 18x20 pattern. Certainly a completely different racquet altogether, and not just a lighter version of the K-90, as the Asian nCode 90 was of the U.S. nCode 90. :(

BreakPoint
12-06-2006, 01:47 PM
IMO it is just stupid how the just keep shuffling around the specs on the Tour90s, just slight minor changes each year lol.
But that's the whole point and the correct strategy IMO. If they made the new model vastly different from the old model, none of their existing customer base would buy it and they would alienate their customers. For example, if Wilson changed the specs of the K-90 so much that it now resembles more like a Pure Drive, do you think their large existing customer base of PS 6.0 and nCode 90 users would touch it with a ten foot pole? No way! It's the same reason Honda only makes minor changes to the Accord every year instead of turning it into an SUV.

BTW, when Wilson introduced the PS 6.0 85 in the early 80's, they made it feel and swing as much as possible like a wood racquet because they knew that if they made it too different, many users of wood racquets (the great majority of tennis players at the time) would not be able to make the adjustment to switch to graphite.

It's all about not making such drastic changes that it would risk alienating the large existing customer base of a successful product.

BreakPoint
12-06-2006, 01:49 PM
The majority of people who play tennis can't hit the sweetspot with ANY racquet, so you aren't saying much.

There are a lot more recreational low level players than there are good players. Just look at any stadium where pros play. There are 2 good players, and about 15,000 low level recreational players watching them.

Good points! :D

The ball was in
12-06-2006, 01:51 PM
I will. purchase the new K factors....and they will be replacing my N-code tour 90's...will retire them to my racket hall of fame :D

Richie Rich
12-06-2006, 01:53 PM
The majority of people who play tennis can't hit the sweetspot with ANY racquet, so you aren't saying much.

There are a lot more recreational low level players than there are good players. Just look at any stadium where pros play. There are 2 good players, and about 15,000 low level recreational players watching them.

i seem to be able to hit the sweet spot consistently - it's just my tecnique that's a little f'd up. that and the fact that i don't strength train as much as i should

BTW, i'm in for the 16x18 27.5 inch version.

Nextman916
12-06-2006, 01:55 PM
If i were ever to buy one of the new K Factor racquets it wouldnt be till sometime end of next year. I love my current setup and wouldnt change it for some hyped new technology.

Jet Rink
12-06-2006, 01:56 PM
I'm down for one - especially if Craig's review is true, whereby its feel is closer to the 85 and less "ceramic" feeling than the ncode 90.

Jet

BreakPoint
12-06-2006, 02:05 PM
I'm down for one - especially if Craig's review is true, whereby its feel is closer to the 85 and less "ceramic" feeling than the ncode 90.

I also hope that the K-90 is less "ceramic" feeling in play than it looks, as when I saw it in person and held it in my hands, it was certainly more "ceramic" feeling and looking in my hands than the nCode 90 is.

Jet Rink
12-06-2006, 02:30 PM
I also hope that the K-90 is less "ceramic" feeling in play than it looks, as when I saw it in person and held it in my hands, it was certainly more "ceramic" feeling and looking in my hands than the nCode 90 is.


Yah - the new PJ is not very good. I like the simple and fairly elegant red/white of the ncode...:mad:

Describe your experience with the racquet so far, BP.

Jet

WhiteSox05CA
12-06-2006, 02:35 PM
I'm gettin` the kSix-One 95.

I can't believe so many of us want one when it hasn't even come out yet, and only like two people on this board have used them.

If you ask me, a review from two people means nothing. 100's means something.

The nSix-One looks like crap! K-Factor looks cool, and Wilson is at least going to compete with the dozens of us who only want racquets for their coolness. There are dozens of us! Dozens!

BreakPoint
12-06-2006, 02:57 PM
Yah - the new PJ is not very good. I like the simple and fairly elegant red/white of the ncode...:mad:

Describe your experience with the racquet so far, BP.

Jet

Jet,
My entire personal experience with the new K-Factor frames were summarized in this post in another thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1098267&postcount=80

I only held the two unstrung frames but never hit with them. :-(

BreakPoint
12-06-2006, 02:59 PM
The nSix-One looks like crap! K-Factor looks cool, and Wilson is at least going to compete with the dozens of us who only want racquets for their coolness. There are dozens of us! Dozens!
But "dozens" aren't nearly enough for them to make a profit on nor even bother with. They need "millions". ;)

BTW, how old are you?

jackson vile
12-06-2006, 04:09 PM
But that's the whole point and the correct strategy IMO. If they made the new model vastly different from the old model, none of their existing customer base would buy it and they would alienate their customers. For example, if Wilson changed the specs of the K-90 so much that it now resembles more like a Pure Drive, do you think their large existing customer base of PS 6.0 and nCode 90 users would touch it with a ten foot pole? No way! It's the same reason Honda only makes minor changes to the Accord every year instead of turning it into an SUV.

BTW, when Wilson introduced the PS 6.0 85 in the early 80's, they made it feel and swing as much as possible like a wood racquet because they knew that if they made it too different, many users of wood racquets (the great majority of tennis players at the time) would not be able to make the adjustment to switch to graphite.

It's all about not making such drastic changes that it would risk alienating the large existing customer base of a successful product.

You are missing the point completely.

You are going to have to pay $200+ and for what? Nothing is different it is just all a mental game, you think you are getting the latest greatest and you aren't end of story.

It is funny because it sounds like this racket is going back to the tour 90 lol just with a lower SW.

IMO the new rackets get worse and worse every year, there aren't any improvements over 100% pure graphite and proper weighting, end of story.

All these people are hoping for some silver bullet but it simply does not exist, it is all cosmetics and nothing but a fad.

You holding a new K-factor just shows how gulilble the person is and that they got robbed and feel good about it LOL.

Ncode sucked, FP sucked, LM was a joke, 03 ports break strings faster and give a hot string bed unless you lead up really high, yonex is just making stuff up, ect ect.

It is a big joke on you the people, enjoy

I got my 5 tnt-90 caymans direct for $50 a peice still in plastic wrap, have fun

jackson vile
12-06-2006, 04:16 PM
Oh and to boot the specs are exactly the same:p

What do you get? An inferior material, slightly more open string pattern, slightly longer neck, and one fugly paint job lol

If you get this racket for free or super cheap great, if you pay for it you need to go back to school;)

sureshs
12-06-2006, 04:58 PM
Tennis is not like buying groceries which you have to do. By definition, if you are not a professional player or coach, you will spend money on tennis. It is a combination of recreation and the desire to stay fit. At least that is all I expect from tennis. In the process, a new frame every couple of years is just an incentive to rekindle your interest in the game. Why do people always watch the next Bond movie and then complain that Roger Moore was the best? Treat new racquets as something to look forward to so that you keep playing tennis. Nothing wrong if a 3.0 corporate office drone buys the K90 and has fantasies and daydreams about being Federer while swinging the racquet in front of his TV. Heard of Walter Mitty?

IT WAS IN!!!
12-06-2006, 05:01 PM
im not prejudice but i havent like any wilson racquets since the PS 85

Zets147
12-06-2006, 05:09 PM
lol "it spec'd as a 4.0+ racquet"
Specs really tell the story, don't they? rofl

Borat
12-06-2006, 06:01 PM
It looks to babolat for me

Tour 90
12-06-2006, 06:02 PM
not gettin' even one.

federermcenroeagassi
12-06-2006, 07:05 PM
You are missing the point completely.

You are going to have to pay $200+ and for what? Nothing is different it is just all a mental game, you think you are getting the latest greatest and you aren't end of story.

It is funny because it sounds like this racket is going back to the tour 90 lol just with a lower SW.

IMO the new rackets get worse and worse every year, there aren't any improvements over 100% pure graphite and proper weighting, end of story.

All these people are hoping for some silver bullet but it simply does not exist, it is all cosmetics and nothing but a fad.

You holding a new K-factor just shows how gulilble the person is and that they got robbed and feel good about it LOL.

Ncode sucked, FP sucked, LM was a joke, 03 ports break strings faster and give a hot string bed unless you lead up really high, yonex is just making stuff up, ect ect.

It is a big joke on you the people, enjoy

I got my 5 tnt-90 caymans direct for $50 a peice still in plastic wrap, have fun

agree excetp with the bold part... yonex tech wroks, so u shud take that statement bak

Jet Rink
12-06-2006, 07:27 PM
Jet,
My entire personal experience with the new K-Factor frames were summarized in this post in another thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1098267&postcount=80

I only held the two unstrung frames but never hit with them. :-(

Gotcha. Shoulda checked. Thanks!

Jet

BreakPoint
12-06-2006, 08:07 PM
You are missing the point completely.

You are going to have to pay $200+ and for what? Nothing is different it is just all a mental game, you think you are getting the latest greatest and you aren't end of story.

Well, tell that to Craig Clark. He and everyone else that has already hit with the K-90 have made it abundantly clear that it plays noticably different from the nCode 90 and is definitely NOT the same racquet with a new paintjob.

BTW, why stop with your Caymans? Why not go all the way back to wood racquets if you think racquets just get worse every year?

BreakPoint
12-06-2006, 08:10 PM
Why do people always watch the next Bond movie and then complain that Roger Moore was the best?
Whoever said Roger Moore is the best? :confused:

I thought EVERYONE agreed that nobody but nobody comes even close to Sean Connery as the best James Bond. ;)

fearless1
12-07-2006, 08:17 AM
How many of you will be buying the K factor sticks, why, and what will it replace?

Not only am I buying the k90, but I've already cut a deal with Wilson to buy ALL of them. This way, I'll be the only one to use them and no one, not even Federer, can beat me!

The supply of k90 sticks will not replace but instead, supplement my current supply of nCode 90s. Although I haven't played with k90 yet, I anticipate it won't play THAT much different from n90 that it would entirely replace n90. However, I've been a long term user of PS 85s and haven't used this frame for quite some time now. I'll most likley be selling off most of my supply of PS85s.

LASVEGAS ACES
12-07-2006, 09:27 AM
I'll demo and then (maybe) switch from the n 6.1 tour.
I have to see a difference.

I'll buy the k 90 from the "first wave" of buyers (2nd hand) if they don't like what they found
-OR- Buy a couple more n 6.1 tours when they sell them for the k90

I think this is about the only way on a tight budget; My father taught me "Any idiot can spend money". He just seems to get smarter as he gets older- He sure was slow when I was a youngster.

Gut Reaction
12-07-2006, 11:07 AM
NO WAY!!! Wilson is after some more money and has once again come out with another "new imrproved" model. The truth is they just are lining their pockets. How long before the "K" model becomes outdated by the "L" model?

pNoyr3D
12-07-2006, 11:14 AM
I myself will not be buying the Wilson K Factor Racquets. I am more interested in getting the Dunlop Aerogels but, I really have no use for a new racquet right now and if I did need one I probably wouldn't be getting the K Factor racquets. I like their paint jobs though.

drakulie
12-07-2006, 11:25 AM
After reading CC's review I am definitely interested in taking it our for a spin. I was never impressed with the Tour 90 or Ncode 90, so I am looking forward to hitting with this one since cc says it plays very different. Especially his explanation of the feedback.

federermcenroeagassi
12-07-2006, 12:55 PM
After reading CC's review I am definitely interested in taking it our for a spin. I was never impressed with the Tour 90 or Ncode 90, so I am looking forward to hitting with this one since cc says it plays very different. Especially his explanation of the feedback.

drakulie, does the ps 85 have the same feel as the tour 90? y did u like the 85 more? just interested in your opinion

thank you

drakulie
12-07-2006, 01:49 PM
drakulie, does the ps 85 have the same feel as the tour 90? y did u like the 85 more? just interested in your opinion

thank you

First off, I have been playing with the PS85 since the late 80's. So naturally I am extremely comfortable and use to playing with this racquet.

The Tour 90, to me felt extremely cumbersome and had a completely "dead feel" to it. It did not give me the same "feedback" as the 85. In other words, the feel you get in your hand when making solid contact with the ball.

With the 85 you almost feel like you are hitting the ball with your hand, and that "feedback" from the racquet lets you know exactly where the ball is going.

It also did not provide anymore power or control than the 85, and the sweetspot was not noticeably bigger than that of the 85.

The Tour 90 to me, was perhaps one of the worst Wilson Pro Staff I have hit with. I did love the color scheme though.

Hope this helps.

federermcenroeagassi
12-07-2006, 02:27 PM
First off, I have been playing with the PS85 since the late 80's. So naturally I am extremely comfortable and use to playing with this racquet.

The Tour 90, to me felt extremely cumbersome and had a completely "dead feel" to it. It did not give me the same "feedback" as the 85. In other words, the feel you get in your hand when making solid contact with the ball.

With the 85 you almost feel like you are hitting the ball with your hand, and that "feedback" from the racquet lets you know exactly where the ball is going.

It also did not provide anymore power or control than the 85, and the sweetspot was not noticeably bigger than that of the 85.

The Tour 90 to me, was perhaps one of the worst Wilson Pro Staff I have hit with. I did love the color scheme though.

Hope this helps.


thanks drak. the tour 90 is the only ps i hav hit with, and i love it. but maybe ill like the k90 more if it has the same feel as the ps 85 (rite now my tour 90 is strung with syn gut, and the feel is pretty good, but better feel wud be awesome).

thanks

drakulie
12-07-2006, 02:50 PM
thanks drak. the tour 90 is the only ps i hav hit with, and i love it. but maybe ill like the k90 more if it has the same feel as the ps 85 (rite now my tour 90 is strung with syn gut, and the feel is pretty good, but better feel wud be awesome).

thanks

If you are looking for somehting that gives more feedback, then it seems from CC's review the K90 delivers big time. We'll have to wait and see, as everybody is comfortable with something different, and not everybody responds in the same way to the same racquet.

Good luck!

federermcenroeagassi
12-07-2006, 03:43 PM
If you are looking for somehting that gives more feedback, then it seems from CC's review the K90 delivers big time. We'll have to wait and see, as everybody is comfortable with something different, and not everybody responds in the same way to the same racquet.

Good luck!

ya, thanks again (i think they key is to stay away from poly's ; ) )

drakulie
12-07-2006, 03:53 PM
I know what you mean, but again it is a matter of taste. I string my ps85 with Ashaway Kevlar Crossfire II, strung at 70lbs.

mavsman149
12-07-2006, 06:48 PM
not buying the wilson, sticking with the fischer mpro 1 98 greatest racquet ever....in my opinion

BounceHitBounceHit
12-07-2006, 07:51 PM
Well, tell that to Craig Clark. He and everyone else that has already hit with the K-90 have made it abundantly clear that it plays noticably different from the nCode 90 and is definitely NOT the same racquet with a new paintjob.

BTW, why stop with your Caymans? Why not go all the way back to wood racquets if you think racquets just get worse every year?

Honestly, I thought the differences would be very small, but they are not. Especially in that ephemeral area of 'feel' or 'feedback'.

But please remember, when I write reviews, or BP, Mojo, Drakulie, etc speak of their experiences with frames, we are ALL (though undoubtedly at times in strong disagreement with one another) VERY experienced players who have probably struck 100's of thousands, if not millions (literally) of tennis balls in our day. We are therefore SENSITIVE TO THESE RELATIVELY SMALL DIFFERENCES.

I love cars, and there are noticeable differences to me between multiple examples of the same make, model, and year. My friends sometimes poke fun at that fact. But ask any real auto enthusiast, and he/she will tell you the same. I am certain this applies to everything. With enough experience oenophiles can identify the actual source of grapes for various cabs or chardonnays.

So, just because you can't feel a difference between the various Wilson Pro Staff models doesn't mean there isn't one. With enough time and experience most people can grow their accumen in an area of keen interest.

Best,

CC

BounceHitBounceHit
12-07-2006, 07:54 PM
After reading CC's review I am definitely interested in taking it our for a spin. I was never impressed with the Tour 90 or Ncode 90, so I am looking forward to hitting with this one since cc says it plays very different. Especially his explanation of the feedback.

I think you will find it to your liking, but nothing plays like the 6.0 85. I wish I were still young/strong/fast enough to use it in competitive play. CC

WhiteSox05CA
12-07-2006, 07:57 PM
It's hard to judge a racquet on one review alone. I mean TW gave the nSix-One Tour an overall 73. All we have is one dude's opinion.

drakulie
12-07-2006, 08:05 PM
But please remember, when I write reviews, or BP, Mojo, Drakulie, etc speak of their experiences with frames, we are ALL (though undoubtedly at times in strong disagreement with one another) VERY experienced players who have probably struck 100's of thousands, if not millions (literally) of tennis balls in our day. We are therefore SENSITIVE TO THESE RELATIVELY SMALL DIFFERENCES.



CC, great post. I think one of the problems in reading a review such as the brilliant one you gave here :), is what the perception is from the point of view of each and every reader.

That "perception" of course is different for each person.

Someone relatively new to tennis will not understand what you are talking about when you start expressing the "feel" or "feedback" a racquet provides back to you. On the other hand, as you stated more experienced players know exactly what you mean and are able to relate.

This is what really excited me about your review. When you started speaking about the feedback it gives back to your hand.

Of course, everyone is going to take certain things from your review that are important to them, in the same way I did.

Anyways, good post!

Mick
12-07-2006, 08:13 PM
Whoever said Roger Moore is the best? :confused:

I thought EVERYONE agreed that nobody but nobody comes even close to Sean Connery as the best James Bond. ;)

Did you know that the producers originally wanted Roger Moore but they could not get him, so they settled for their 2nd choice, Sean Connery ?

Unbelievable but true :) (they talked about this in the bonus section of one of those James Bond dvds)

BreakPoint
12-07-2006, 08:35 PM
Did you know that the producers originally wanted Roger Moore but they could not get him, so they settled for their 2nd choice, Sean Connery ?

Unbelievable but true :) (they talked about this in the bonus section of one of those James Bond dvds)
Yes, I do know that. :D

Sean Connery was a virtual unknown actor at the time and they took a big risk with him as he had no name recognition to be a box office draw. Roger Moore was much better known but was also busy starring in the TV show, "The Saint".

Personally, I think they made a mistake casting the new Bond, Daniel Craig. A lot of people and the critics think he's great as the new James Bond but I disagree. I think he's too muscular, like he's more of a full-time bodybuilder than a busy secret agent. He's also not very charming, smooth nor debonaire, like Sean Connery and most of the other actors that played Bond were. He just doesn't come off as coming from a Cambridge educated, upper class sort of upbringing, but more like a hoodlum from the streets of the bad side of London or something. I think Hugh Jackman or even Christian Bale would have been a better choice. Anyway, just my opinion and sorry for getting off track here. ;)

(And, yes, I have seen "Casino Royale".)

tennis_hand
12-07-2006, 11:12 PM
Just wait until all the kids who have bought the racket to feel like Federer for 2 hours sell it. then you get a better bargain.

Just look at the local tennis forum here and see how many are selling off the n90 and n95 with grip size 4 1/4. lol..

harleywilson
12-08-2006, 01:26 PM
I've been silent so far but I must say I laugh at all people saying whether they will buy a K factor. Just go out and demo the darn thing and decide for yourself. I like to hear from all the "experts" who predict that there will be a flood of unwanted rackets. How in the world do you know? I started playing after a long hiatus and got a ncode 6.1 95. My coach was skeptical but after many thousands of balls through a ball machine and lots of lessons I can hit the ball pretty well now. In fact he told me that the 6.1 is perfect for me now. I'll try the K factor then make up my mind. If you hit the ball on the sweetspot most rackets work. I do like the toughtful comments posted by many and the helpful review of the racket by CC. Keep up the good work

FuriousYellow
12-08-2006, 01:50 PM
Just wait until all the kids who have bought the racket to feel like Federer for 2 hours sell it. then you get a better bargain.

Just look at the local tennis forum here and see how many are selling off the n90 and n95 with grip size 4 1/4. lol..

That's usually my strategy as well, but with all the asian knock-offs floating around, I'd never be sure if I was buying a second-hand fake.

TnTBigman
12-08-2006, 02:48 PM
if i hear good feedback, demo and absolutely love how it hits. then i MIGHT buy it.

donnyz89
12-08-2006, 04:30 PM
its not that good looking... and no I already have my racquet, I have no money to collect racquets.

Jet Rink
12-08-2006, 04:39 PM
First off, I have been playing with the PS85 since the late 80's. So naturally I am extremely comfortable and use to playing with this racquet.

The Tour 90, to me felt extremely cumbersome and had a completely "dead feel" to it. It did not give me the same "feedback" as the 85. In other words, the feel you get in your hand when making solid contact with the ball.

With the 85 you almost feel like you are hitting the ball with your hand, and that "feedback" from the racquet lets you know exactly where the ball is going.

It also did not provide anymore power or control than the 85, and the sweetspot was not noticeably bigger than that of the 85.

The Tour 90 to me, was perhaps one of the worst Wilson Pro Staff I have hit with. I did love the color scheme though.

Hope this helps.


Good stuff Drakulie and nearly the same experience as my own - except I bought my first 85 a few years ahead of you, young fella!;)

Man, why can't Wilson just admit that they have a winner, make limited quantities of the 85 and move on??? :confused

Jet

tennis_hand
12-09-2006, 03:26 AM
its not that good looking... and no I already have my racquet, I have no money to collect racquets.

collecting rackets is not like collecting treasures hoping their values will increase.
it is more like electronics now and the manufacturers are churning them out year by year.

Duzza
12-09-2006, 03:45 AM
Can people please buy the 4 3/8 size K Factor 90's, use them for 10 hours, realise your not good enough for it and sell them to me. That is all.

Polaris
12-09-2006, 03:46 AM
I have no need for the K factor sticks, since I am very pleased with my Redondo 98. Besides, I'm not thinking of buying new tennis racquets for a while. At my level, I can afford to wait for a few years, see which racquet stands the test of time and buy a used one.

Da One
12-09-2006, 03:51 AM
The K-Factor 90, which will replace my Tour 90's and my PS 6.0 85's.......... best frame since the PS 6.0 85

Duzza
12-09-2006, 04:00 AM
The K-Factor 90, which will replace my Tour 90's and my PS 6.0 85's.......... best frame since the PS 6.0 85

Is that a prediction?

drakulie
12-09-2006, 07:37 AM
Good stuff Drakulie and nearly the same experience as my own - except I bought my first 85 a few years ahead of you, young fella!;)

Jet

LOL Jet. Young fella sounds good to me. !!

Yeah, I think many 85 users have had the same expreience when comparing it to the Tour 90.

My first graphite racquet was the Dunlop Black Max, and then the Max 200g (I loved McEnroe). I finally switched to the 85, after hitting with a friends. I immediately loved it.

federermcenroeagassi
12-09-2006, 07:56 AM
Can people please buy the 4 3/8 size K Factor 90's, use them for 10 hours, realise your not good enough for it and sell them to me. That is all.

and then you realize that you cant use it either... based on your thread about you leaving the boards... ;D

Jet Rink
12-09-2006, 08:00 AM
LOL Jet. Young fella sounds good to me. !!

Yeah, I think many 85 users have had the same expreience when comparing it to the Tour 90.

My first graphite racquet was the Dunlop Black Max, and then the Max 200g (I loved McEnroe). I finally switched to the 85, after hitting with a friends. I immediately loved it.

It's funny - I'll still pull out a Max 200g. But for me, the 85 is the gold standard. Just feels right.

Glad to hear it, brother.

Jet

Voltron
12-09-2006, 08:09 AM
I might buy one. Maybe I should demo it next week. Also has anyone heard of the new O3 speed port red/blue/silver racquets?

stevekim8
12-09-2006, 08:13 AM
nope i'm gonna stick with my head racquet

BreakPoint
12-09-2006, 10:29 AM
Is that a prediction?
I think Da One mentioned in this thread or another thread that he has already hit with the K-90.

Duzza
12-09-2006, 02:49 PM
and then you realize that you cant use it either... based on your thread about you leaving the boards... ;D

No, I will play with it but not report back how good it is :D

Richie Rich
12-09-2006, 03:04 PM
My first graphite racquet was the Dunlop Black Max

mine too. then i went to the rossignol f200

federermcenroeagassi
12-09-2006, 03:33 PM
No, I will play with it but not report back how good it is :D

hahaha... come on duzza, i'd like your opinion ;D

PimpMyGame
12-10-2006, 11:16 AM
The majority of people who play tennis can't hit the sweetspot with ANY racquet, so you aren't saying much.

There are a lot more recreational low level players than there are good players. Just look at any stadium where pros play. There are 2 good players, and about 15,000 low level recreational players watching them.

I'll tell you what, I think you've hit the nail on the head. How many racket snobs traipse this forum giving the thumb down to anything less than 340g or with a beam width more than 20mm?

I'll take them out of court with my crappy APD and watch them smash their new K-Factor racket into the ground any time. Just because they've got to have the next player's racket.

Then they can tell me what a pusher's racket I've got. Happy days.

Tennis Man
12-10-2006, 12:18 PM
I'll tell you what, I think you've hit the nail on the head. How many racket snobs traipse this forum giving the thumb down to anything less than 340g or with a beam width more than 20mm?

I'll take them out of court with my crappy APD and watch them smash their new K-Factor racket into the ground any time. Just because they've got to have the next player's racket.

Then they can tell me what a pusher's racket I've got. Happy days.

What is your point, pimp? The guy is just telling the truth. Play with your APD and don't insult ppl there. I personally don't go to Babolat/Dunlop/Volkl threads and bump them up.

fearless1
12-10-2006, 09:12 PM
I'll tell you what, I think you've hit the nail on the head. How many racket snobs traipse this forum giving the thumb down to anything less than 340g or with a beam width more than 20mm?

I'll take them out of court with my crappy APD and watch them smash their new K-Factor racket into the ground any time. Just because they've got to have the next player's racket.

Then they can tell me what a pusher's racket I've got. Happy days.

Ah...perhaps you are assuming that a player's racquet is just some heavy, small headed, HL stick with no intrinsic benefits to offer that pros and snobs like to use when they can instead be using something "better" and "easier" such as APD, eh?

When I practice/play against weaker players, say 4.0, I can pretty much use any tweener racquet out there...Surge, Radical, even your APD. Sometimes I'll even pull out my old favorite Wilson T2000, which btw, posesses player racquet characteristics. After a short adjustment period with the tweener, say 10 mins, I'm hitting pretty consistently and powerfully with the tweener racquet. However, when I need my 'A-game', say against a better player or perhaps I just want to squash 4.0, I pull out the player's stick.

Funny thing happened just a few hours ago today...
I'm doing drills with a 4.0 I happened to meet out at the courts. He is using a Wilson nPS 95 Demo, a 10-11 oz racquet. After about 30 mins of hitting, he wants to try one of my nCode 90s (custom leaded down with an extra 18 gr of lead). He comments, "geez, heavy and the head is kind of small too." After about 5 mins, he is hitting the shots that I see that would make him a better player. Then he says something that makes me chuckle a bit, "wow, I'm getting good depth on my shots with your racquet...but I don't think I'd ever switch to something like it." Imagine that!

So, I hear ya, I know what you are saying and why because I once thought the way you do now. Fortunately, my willingness to try something different, make some commitments, and work hard is now allowing me to experience the benefits of player racquets that no die hard tweener user can ever hope to understand.

PimpMyGame
12-12-2006, 04:30 AM
So, I hear ya, I know what you are saying and why because I once thought the way you do now. Fortunately, my willingness to try something different, make some commitments, and work hard is now allowing me to experience the benefits of player racquets that no die hard tweener user can ever hope to understand.

ok, nice post - thanks for the feedback. I'm not a die-hard tweener user, though. The APD just feels good at the moment but I changed from an n6.1 and tried several players' rackets before going for the APD. I just know I'll see people out there struggling with the new K-Factors just as I did with the n6.1.

Regards

PimpMyGame
12-12-2006, 04:33 AM
What is your point, pimp? The guy is just telling the truth. Play with your APD and don't insult ppl there. I personally don't go to Babolat/Dunlop/Volkl threads and bump them up.

Guys, sorry if I insulted anyone. That's not my reason behind posting. Maybe my posts can be provocative just like others who use this forum but I don't want to upset people. Drakulie - apologies if I upset you.

Punisha
12-12-2006, 05:55 AM
Im sure most ppl wont just go and buy the new stick... they will demo and if they like will swap...

fearless1
12-12-2006, 11:07 AM
ok, nice post - thanks for the feedback. I'm not a die-hard tweener user, though. The APD just feels good at the moment but I changed from an n6.1 and tried several players' rackets before going for the APD. I just know I'll see people out there struggling with the new K-Factors just as I did with the n6.1.

Regards

The problem with player racquets (PR) for tweener users is one can't just go out and demo one and expect something miraculous to happen to your game during the demo period. What would more likely happen is the tweener player that is experimenting with the demo will find it heavy and unforgiving then simply write off the PR as just being too difficult to use. That's why the comments in this thread (by others) to just "demo one then decide" are meaningless.

The PR is a "marriage" racquet. It takes commitment, hard work, and lots of practice over an extended period of time before one can truely experience the benefits from using a PR. More specifically, your strokes and game will undergo adjustments to the more demanding PR; the shoulder and arm muscles that swing the heavier racquet will get stronger and noticably beefier too. All this takes time to happen, say at least 4 to 6 months (much longer than most demo periods BTW!).

So, after all the hard work, what are the benefits of a PR to someone who has become conditioned to using one? In short, more consistency and greater precision with less effort allowing the PR user to hit shots slightly lower over the net and closer to the lines too more often. With a tweener racquet (TR), I can still sustain say 40 to 50 shot practice rallies in what I refer to as "consistency drills". What's lacking though is the greater precision of the PR. Sure, I can still "laser aim" a shot with a TR, but everthing has to be just right or close to it or I just won't go for the shot. More likely, what happens is I just miss the shot altogether (a “miss” being an out shot or an in shot not as close to the lines and net chord as I wanted). So, how does a PR user put greater consistency and precision in his shots to use? Simple, he builds a game around those skills and become even deadlier! Building that newer game is going to take a bit of time too.

So yes, notwithstanding the detractors in the thread, one can just go out and buy a KF90 or 95 and "go for it" even without the benefit of prior demoing. My own first shot ever with a PS 85 was with one that I had purchased without benefit of demoing.

BreakPoint
12-12-2006, 11:29 AM
I just know I'll see people out there struggling with the new K-Factors just as I did with the n6.1.


But why do you assume that just because you couldn't handle the nCode 6.1 that other people can't handle it, either? :confused: Perhaps other people are better players than you are or have different styles than you or prefer a different type of racquet than you?

I don't understand why there's several people on this board with the attitude that - "If I can't handle this racquet, then no one else can!"

I can't handle a 9 oz., 135 sq. in. ultra widebody, super-powerful, game improvement racquet, but I certainly do not assume that no one else can.

sureshs
12-12-2006, 11:33 AM
The problem with player racquets (PR) for tweener users is one can't just go out and demo one and expect something miraculous to happen to your game during the demo period. What would more likely happen is the tweener player that is experimenting with the demo will find it heavy and unforgiving then simply write off the PR as just being too difficult to use. That's why the comments in this thread (by others) to just "demo one then decide" are meaningless.

The PR is a "marriage" racquet. It takes commitment, hard work, and lots of practice over an extended period of time before one can truely experience the benefits from using a PR. More specifically, your strokes and game will undergo adjustments to the more demanding PR; the shoulder and arm muscles that swing the heavier racquet will get stronger and noticably beefier too. All this takes time to happen, say at least 4 to 6 months (much longer than most demo periods BTW!).

So, after all the hard work, what are the benefits of a PR to someone who has become conditioned to using one? In short, more consistency and greater precision with less effort allowing the PR user to hit shots slightly lower over the net and closer to the lines too more often. With a tweener racquet (TR), I can still sustain say 40 to 50 shot practice rallies in what I refer to as "consistency drills". What's lacking though is the greater precision of the PR. Sure, I can still "laser aim" a shot with a TR, but everthing has to be just right or close to it or I just won't go for the shot. More likely, what happens is I just miss the shot altogether (a “miss” being an out shot or an in shot not as close to the lines and net chord as I wanted). So, how does a PR user put greater consistency and precision in his shots to use? Simple, he builds a game around those skills and become even deadlier! Building that newer game is going to take a bit of time too.

So yes, notwithstanding the detractors in the thread, one can just go out and buy a KF90 or 95 and "go for it" even without the benefit of prior demoing. My own first shot ever with a PS 85 was with one that I had purchased without benefit of demoing.

The problem I see is that most recreational players cannot jump up even a 0.5 level in 4 to 6 months. This is specially true for the notorious 3.5 and 4.0 levels, where most people get stuck for a lifetime (70% of all players, according to the USTA). Directional accuracy and depth with a player's racquet matters only if your overall game moves to the next level. A player who panics when the ball is in the backhand corner, or who topspins the BH during rallies but nervously slices in a real match, or who always double faults at breakpoint up or down, is not going to benefit from all this increased control.

BreakPoint
12-12-2006, 11:39 AM
The problem I see is that most recreational players cannot jump up even a 0.5 level in 4 to 6 months. This is specially true for the notorious 3.5 and 4.0 levels, where most people get stuck for a lifetime (70% of all players, according to the USTA). Directional accuracy and depth with a player's racquet matters only if your overall game moves to the next level. A player who panics when the ball is in the backhand corner, or who topspins the BH during rallies but nervously slices in a real match, or who always double faults at breakpoint up or down, is not going to benefit from all this increased control.

But this type of player won't benefit from ANY new racquet. He would benefit more from spending the money on sessions with a sports psychologist. ;)

No one ever claimed that ANY new racquet will move you to the next rating level. It's all about how good you feel when you hit the ball. :D

BounceHitBounceHit
12-12-2006, 01:06 PM
But this type of player won't benefit from ANY new racquet. He would benefit more from spending the money on sessions with a sports psychologist. ;)

No one ever claimed that ANY new racquet will move you to the next rating level. It's all about how good you feel when you hit the ball. :D

Agreed.

And that player so described would benefit MOST from some high quality lessons and TONS of time on court hitting balls with ANY frame.

;)

CC

The Gorilla
12-12-2006, 01:12 PM
Ah...perhaps you are assuming that a player's racquet is just some heavy, small headed, HL stick with no intrinsic benefits to offer that pros and snobs like to use when they can instead be using something "better" and "easier" such as APD, eh?

When I practice/play against weaker players, say 4.0, I can pretty much use any tweener racquet out there...Surge, Radical, even your APD. Sometimes I'll even pull out my old favorite Wilson T2000, which btw, posesses player racquet characteristics. After a short adjustment period with the tweener, say 10 mins, I'm hitting pretty consistently and powerfully with the tweener racquet. However, when I need my 'A-game', say against a better player or perhaps I just want to squash 4.0, I pull out the player's stick.

Funny thing happened just a few hours ago today...
I'm doing drills with a 4.0 I happened to meet out at the courts. He is using a Wilson nPS 95 Demo, a 10-11 oz racquet. After about 30 mins of hitting, he wants to try one of my nCode 90s (custom leaded down with an extra 18 gr of lead). He comments, "geez, heavy and the head is kind of small too." After about 5 mins, he is hitting the shots that I see that would make him a better player. Then he says something that makes me chuckle a bit, "wow, I'm getting good depth on my shots with your racquet...but I don't think I'd ever switch to something like it." Imagine that!

So, I hear ya, I know what you are saying and why because I once thought the way you do now. Fortunately, my willingness to try something different, make some commitments, and work hard is now allowing me to experience the benefits of player racquets that no die hard tweener user can ever hope to understand.

I have a prince catalyst extender,it's 27.5 inches,weighs about 12 pounds and has an area of 106 inches,although it is very narrow,would you consider this to be a good racquet?

The Gorilla
12-12-2006, 01:12 PM
I'm just wondering 'cos I know litrally nothing about racquets.

BreakPoint
12-12-2006, 02:26 PM
I have a prince catalyst extender,it's 27.5 inches,weighs about 12 pounds and has an area of 106 inches,although it is very narrow,would you consider this to be a good racquet?
I see why you choose the screen name, "The Gorilla". ;) :lol: LOL

Must be a very powerful racquet if you could get it around. ;)

tarkowski
12-12-2006, 02:32 PM
Deleted - wrong post for this thread...

fearless1
12-12-2006, 02:35 PM
I have a prince catalyst extender,it's 27.5 inches,weighs about 12 pounds and has an area of 106 inches,although it is very narrow,would you consider this to be a good racquet?

A 12 lb racquet!? Yeah, I guess, if your name is Paul Bunyun!

sureshs
12-12-2006, 02:37 PM
But this type of player won't benefit from ANY new racquet. He would benefit more from spending the money on sessions with a sports psychologist. ;)

No one ever claimed that ANY new racquet will move you to the next rating level. It's all about how good you feel when you hit the ball. :D

How good you feel was not the point of the post I quoted. It claimed that 4 - 6 months with a player's racquet would give you benefits in terms of better control of depth and accuracy. It did not mention any sports psychology issues.

Since the thread is mainly about the K factor sticks and 3 of 4 of them are player sticks, we are discussing buying a new racquet.

Your point is taken, but it was not what was said by the poster.

The Gorilla
12-12-2006, 02:39 PM
I see why you choose the screen name, "The Gorilla". ;) :lol: LOL

Must be a very powerful racquet if you could get it around. ;)

that's 12 ounces lol:)

BreakPoint
12-12-2006, 02:42 PM
How good you feel was not the point of the post I quoted. It claimed that 4 - 6 months with a player's racquet would give you benefits in terms of better control of depth and accuracy. It did not mention any sports psychology issues.

Since the thread is mainly about the K factor sticks and 3 of 4 of them are player sticks, we are discussing buying a new racquet.

Your point is taken, but it was not what was said by the poster.
But even "better control of depth and accuracy" does not necessarily mean you will move up a level. Moving up a level ONLY has to do with your win-loss record and NOT how great your strokes are nor how much control you have on the ball. You can look like Federer when you play (me, for example, once in a while ;) LOL) but can still lose lots of matches due to speed, conditioning, stamina, and everything that goes on between the ears. Tennis is just as a mental game as it is physical. The racquet is not going to keep you from choking or going for the wrong shot at the wrong time nor using the wrong strategy - all of which could cause you to lose.

sureshs
12-12-2006, 02:55 PM
You can look like Federer when you play (me, for example, once in a while ;) LOL) but can still lose lots of matches

I prefer to look like Nadal and lose matches.

fearless1
12-12-2006, 03:39 PM
The problem I see is that most recreational players cannot jump up even a 0.5 level in 4 to 6 months. This is specially true for the notorious 3.5 and 4.0 levels, where most people get stuck for a lifetime (70% of all players, according to the USTA). Directional accuracy and depth with a player's racquet matters only if your overall game moves to the next level. A player who panics when the ball is in the backhand corner, or who topspins the BH during rallies but nervously slices in a real match, or who always double faults at breakpoint up or down, is not going to benefit from all this increased control.

...which I why I mentioned that "commitment" is required if one is to improve his/her game with a player's stick...4 to 6 months is a minimum to START seeing benefits of using a player's racquet (PR), not play like R Fed. No racquet of any kind can help a player deal with panic issues during a point or match.

While my 3.5 to 4.0 tennis friends are happy to play their Sat morning social matches and their one to two per week league team matches with occassional practice session, I'm hitting 1000s of practice serves/OHs/volleys during that same week. IMO, the bulk of people who peak at 3.5. to 4.0 levels aren't "stuck" there. The bulk of these people are "happy" with their games at those levels because they have other more important priorities in their lives other than tennis. There is no REAL commitment to improve, hence certailnly less justification for these players to use a PR. That leaves the fewer number of 3.5 to 4s who manage to surpass these levels by intent. It's these commited players who want to improve that a PR should be a step up in terms of equipment.

So, what comes first, egg or chicken...PR or player skills (depth and directional accuracy)? You suggest that ones needs the skills first to fully utilize the intrinsic benefits of a PR. On the surface, things may appear this way. My own experiences and observations suggests otherwise. In general, the sooner those who are committed to improvement switch to more "advanced equipment", the sooner they will get better with that equipment.

As already alluded to earlier, I've seen enough 3.5 and 4.0s show some IMMEDIATE improvement in the consistency of their games when they try a PR. But, they moan and groan at racquet wt, maneauvarbility, and most important, lower power issues. This is an important observation, because it's an indication that 3.5 to 4.0 doesn't TRUELY appreciate how vital consistency is to the improvement of their games at their current levels! So, the verdict is usally a fast and simple, "thanks, but no thanks".

I'm sure both of us have witnessed our share of noobs, nuggets, and hackers use sticks such as nCode 6.1. Are they struggling using a PR? Perhaps...but I doubt they realize this or even care and also already mentioned elsewhere, switching to a non PR won't make any difference to these player's either.

Anyway, I'm not trying to "hard sell" PRs to everyone. This just isn't necessary. Perhaps a different suggestion from me is in order: become a multi stick user! One nice "discovered" benefit of being a PR user is having the ability to easily switch to all sorts of other racquets on the fly (except say granny racquets). So, there are times when I pull out PS 5 Surge X or an APD and just have some fun out there. However, when I'm interested in finding what my own limits are...so that I can expand them...that's when the PRs come out of the bag.

NoBadMojo
12-12-2006, 03:54 PM
...which I why I mentioned that "commitment" is required if one is to improve his/her game with a player's stick...4 to 6 months is a minimum to START seeing benefits of using a player's racquet (PR), not play like R Fed.

While my 3.5 to 4.0 tennis friends are happy to play their Sat morning social matches and their one to two per week league team matches with occassional practice session, I'm hitting 1000s of practice serves/OHs/volleys during that same week. IMO, the bulk of people who peak at 3.5. to 4.0 levels aren't "stuck" there. The bulk of these people are "happy" with their games at those levels because they have other more important priorities in their lives other than tennis. There is no REAL commitment to improve, hence certailnly less justification for these players to use a PR. That leaves the fewer number of 3.5 to 4s who manage to surpass these levels by intent. It's these commited players who want to improve that a PR should be a step up in terms of equipment.

So, what comes first, egg or chicken...PR or player skills (depth and directional accuracy)? You suggest that ones needs the skills first to fully utilize the intrinsic benefits of a PR. On the surface, things may appear this way. My own experiences and observations suggests otherwise. In general, the sooner those who are committed to improvement switch to more "advanced equipment", the sooner they will get better with that equipment. In other words, it is unrealistic to think that one can improve with a tweener racquet through hard work over an extended period of time then suddenly switch to a PR for a quick jump in their NTRP.

As already alluded to earlier, I've seen enough 3.5 and 4.0s show some IMMEDIATE improvement in the consistency of their games when they try a PR. But, they moan and groan at racquet wt, maneauvarbility, and most important, lower power issues. This is an important observation, because it's an indication that 3.5 to 4.0 doesn't TRUELY appreciate how vital consistency is to the improvement of their games at their current levels! So, the verdict is usally a fast and simple, "thanks, but no thanks".

I'm sure both of us have witnessed our share of noobs, nuggets, and hackers use sticks such as nCode 6.1. Are they struggling using a PR? Perhaps...but I doubt they realize this or even care and also already mentioned elsewhere, switching to a non PR won't make any difference to these player's either.

Anyway, I'm not trying to "hard sell" PRs to everyone. This just isn't necessary. Perhaps a different suggestion from me is in order: become a multi stick user! One nice "discovered" benefit of being a PR user is having the ability to easily switch to all sorts of other racquets on the fly (except say granny racquets). So, there are times when I pull out PS 5 Surge X or an APD and just have some fun out there. However, when I'm interested in finding what my own limits are...so that I can expand them...that's when the PRs come out of the bag.

your entitled to your opinions of course and not surprising a tennis player would have seen their fair share of 4.0 tennis players, but as a long time teaching pro, i choose to diagree with you..nothing delays progress like handicapping a player with gear which is too demanding for their PRESENT skillset. It most usually leads to bad mechanics rather than good and even leads to injury sometimes. I am sure there is the occassional exception or anomoly. also got news for you..for almost everyone it isnt a very good idea to switch racquets on the fly either for a number of reasons

fearless1
12-12-2006, 05:07 PM
your entitled to your opinions of course and not surprising a tennis player would have seen their fair share of 4.0 tennis players, but as a long time teaching pro, i choose to diagree with you..nothing delays progress like handicapping a player with gear which is too demanding for their PRESENT skillset. It most usually leads to bad mechanics rather than good and even leads to injury sometimes. I am sure there is the occassional exception or anomoly. also got news for you..for almost everyone it isnt a very good idea to switch racquets on the fly either for a number of reasons

You are assuming too much or reading too much into my posts...there is no disagreement (not that it really matters to me). Trust me, I'm fully aware of using equipment suitable for one's skills. For example, a noob can't be expected to fly 747's without first starting with a Cessna (although certainly possible!). All sorts of things not related to equipment can lead to bad mechanics and injury.

As already mentioned, I'm not trying to hard sell PRs and I use other types of racquets too. I too can think of many reasons not to switch racquets on the fly (doh). Those comments are to suggest that in the end, "it's the player, not the racquet" for the most part.

Teaching pro, like making a living soley from teaching tennis? I'm on friendly terms with the pros that I know of in my local area. Some of their clientele happen to be my friends too. Sometimes, when one of those pro(s) see me coaching my friends (for free) and making real and fast progress, the pro will ask my friend somewhat "humerously" if I'm his/her new instructor coach. Got news for you too...not saying that you do this yourself...I know you've got to make a living too...but I've seen my share of teaching pros who are more interested in return clientele as opposed to seeing their students really get better. So, it's not always the equipment that delays a player's progress....

drakulie
12-12-2006, 05:20 PM
Guys, sorry if I insulted anyone. That's not my reason behind posting. Maybe my posts can be provocative just like others who use this forum but I don't want to upset people. Drakulie - apologies if I upset you.

No need to apologize. You got my point, which is : Play with whatver you are going ot be happy with. Whether it is a "tweener", or "players racquet".

Like I said, many low level recreationals players can't play with a "tweener" or "players racquet"--their skill level is the same with both. There are also many "advanced players" who can't play with a "players racquet" , and choose to use a "tweener".

Bottom line: whatever your skill level and racquet choice, you have to make solid contact, and develop good mechanics.

Choosing a racquet is not a science. It is your money, buy what is going to make you happy on the court. Whether it be the paintjob, the brand, head size, grip size, weight, balance, etc.

Everybody is different.

drakulie
12-12-2006, 05:22 PM
It's all about how good you feel when you hit the ball. :D


Praise the lord! bingo!

SFrazeur
12-12-2006, 05:25 PM
If they racquet is just like the n90 but with the more open string pattern longer throat, and swings more like the PS 85, then I will get two.

drakulie
12-12-2006, 05:27 PM
Teaching pro, like making a living soley from teaching tennis? I'm on friendly terms with the pros that I know of in my local area. Some of their clientele happen to be my friends too. Sometimes, when one of those pro(s) see me coaching my friends (for free) and making real and fast progress, the pro will ask my friend somewhat "humerously" if I'm his/her new instructor coach. Got news for you too...not saying that you do this yourself...I know you've got to make a living too...but I've seen my share of teaching pros who are more interested in return clientele as opposed to seeing their students really get better. So, it's not always the equipment that delays a player's progress....

Couldn't agree with you more. 7 out of 10 "teaching pros" I see are a joke, and can't beat 3.0 players. They are just extremely friendly, know how to feed balls, make their classes fun, and most importantly get their clients to return --- with friends.

SFrazeur
12-12-2006, 05:34 PM
Teaching pro, like making a living soley from teaching tennis? I'm on friendly terms with the pros that I know of in my local area. Some of their clientele happen to be my friends too. Sometimes, when one of those pro(s) see me coaching my friends (for free) and making real and fast progress, the pro will ask my friend somewhat "humerously" if I'm his/her new instructor coach. Got news for you too...not saying that you do this yourself...I know you've got to make a living too...but I've seen my share of teaching pros who are more interested in return clientele as opposed to seeing their students really get better. So, it's not always the equipment that delays a player's progress....

That seems to be the rule over the exception here in my area. I could not stand myself if I appeased a person just so that they would pay me. I do not teach to make money, I am a terrible capitalist. I am one of the few in my area that will cancel due to the heat if I think it is too much for a student, which is breaking a bit of a golden rule around here. Am I a good instructor? I will let those that I have taught decide that.

Sorry to get off topic.

NoBadMojo
12-12-2006, 06:15 PM
You are assuming too much or reading too much into my posts...there is no disagreement (not that it really matters to me). Trust me, I'm fully aware of using equipment suitable for one's skills. For example, a noob can't be expected to fly 747's without first starting with a Cessna (although certainly possible!). All sorts of things not related to equipment can lead to bad mechanics and injury.

As already mentioned, I'm not trying to hard sell PRs and I use other types of racquets too. I too can think of many reasons not to switch racquets on the fly (doh). Those comments are to suggest that in the end, "it's the player, not the racquet" for the most part.

Teaching pro, like making a living soley from teaching tennis? I'm on friendly terms with the pros that I know of in my local area. Some of their clientele happen to be my friends too. Sometimes, when one of those pro(s) see me coaching my friends (for free) and making real and fast progress, the pro will ask my friend somewhat "humerously" if I'm his/her new instructor coach. Got news for you too...not saying that you do this yourself...I know you've got to make a living too...but I've seen my share of teaching pros who are more interested in return clientele as opposed to seeing their students really get better. So, it's not always the equipment that delays a player's progress....

yea..like most things in life, there are people who are good at what they do, and people who are less than good at what they do and lots of people who dont know much about what they do who arent hesitant to judge what they do and think they could do better at what they do even though it isnt what they do

with it being such a simple matter to be a certified teaching pro, you do get quality all over the place. i think the USTA should get involved to help ensure that people who want a lesson are likely to get a good one. they should look at the PGA and learn

SFrazeur
12-12-2006, 06:17 PM
yea..like most things in life, there are people who are good at what they do, and people who are less than good at what they do and lots of people who dont know much about what they do who arent hesitant to judge what they do and think they could do better at what they do even though it isnt what they do

with it being such a simple matter to be a certified teaching pro, you do get quality all over the place. i think the USTA should get involved to help ensure that people who want a lesson are likely to get a good one. they should look at the PGA and learn

Do you mean USPTA, The United States Professional Tennis Association?

NoBadMojo
12-12-2006, 06:22 PM
Do you mean USPTA, The United States Professional Tennis Association?

No, I mean the USTA as I said

SFrazeur
12-12-2006, 06:39 PM
No, I mean the USTA as I said
I doubt the USTA would not get involved in that sort of thing.

But we digress, we would not want to hijack this thread.

patrick922
12-12-2006, 06:47 PM
no thanks i think ill stick with my wilson ncode nsix one 95..... i like the red, white color scheme better.... plus i like this racquet so why change a good racquet.

NoBadMojo
12-12-2006, 07:18 PM
I doubt the USTA would not get involved in that sort of thing.

But we digress, we would not want to hijack this thread.

I think the USPTA and PTR ARE the problem since they are certification factories. The USTA should take some control over their sport IMO. This thread veered off course before I arrived.

PimpMyGame
12-13-2006, 04:53 AM
But why do you assume that just because you couldn't handle the nCode 6.1 that other people can't handle it, either?

It's not pure assumption - I've seen it before and I'll see it again. Just like a lot of other people on this forum.

I don't understand why there's several people on this board with the attitude that - "If I can't handle this racquet, then no one else can!"

I don't have that attitude, I'm just making an observation. I'll give my apologies now if you weren't talking about me in your comment.

sureshs
12-13-2006, 07:06 AM
Couldn't agree with you more. 7 out of 10 "teaching pros" I see are a joke, and can't beat 3.0 players. They are just extremely friendly, know how to feed balls, make their classes fun, and most importantly get their clients to return --- with friends.

That is too harsh

drakulie
12-13-2006, 07:48 AM
That is too harsh

Which part?

7 of 10, or the 3.0?

sureshs
12-13-2006, 08:52 AM
Which part?

7 of 10, or the 3.0?

Nice trap! I am not falling for that one.

When talking of teaching pros, you need to separate them into those catering to juniors or adults, though some do both. In the case of juniors, there are lots of really good coaches and the stakes are much higher and rather concrete - make my daughter win tournaments, help get my son a scholarship. The intense rivalry makes it easy to see who the winners are and a free market atmosphere lets parents take their kids somewhere else if they don't like a pro. Many coaches also operate in a tennis academy environment - residential or day camps, and at least in California and Florida, there are many choices.

With adults, it is a whole different game. You have the weekend warriors, the newbies, the clinic takers, the resort-vacationers and all ages from 25 to 75, with varying degrees of motivation - exercise, socializing, competitive etc and various levels of health issues. A pro just cannot help somebody who is not willing. The desire to get repeat clients is partly selfish but also good for the adult player. Sometimes it is too bad - I know players who have been taking clinics from the same guy for years, yet they hit the backhand with the palm twisted and the same racquet face as the forehand. I think the pros realize that some people are sensitive to criticism and just focus on a balance of entertainment and coaching.

I took one exorbitantly priced golf lesson and didn't like it, but otherwise I cannot comment on golf pros. But I see many other areas - physical trainers, yoga instructors, massage therapists, life coaches - where the certifications are kind of shady but the market demand for a wide price range of such services is so high that instructors can make a living. I am not in favor of a "union" approach to anything, whatever it may be called - a labor union, a union of businessmen (chamber of commerce), the American Medical Association, USPTA or whatever. Traditionally, only labor unions are considered unions, but rich and powerful people have their own unions under fancy names. I can understand if a doctor or a house builder needs to be certified, but nowadays every activity has its own certification, which is basically a way to collect dues and keep creative individuals out - those who don't play by the rules of the others.

SFrazeur
12-13-2006, 09:47 AM
Nice trap! I am not falling for that one.

When talking of teaching pros, you need to separate them into those catering to juniors or adults, though some do both. In the case of juniors,....

With the USPTA I am paying for two things: 1, I'm paying for liability insurance, worth it or not. 2, I am paying for the fact that I can say I am certified, people like to see that. The dues are $225 a year.

Also, facilities will not hire a pro unless they are certified, here in the south the USPTA rules, If you are USPTA you options and opportunities. The PTR is considered a joke, I am not stating I agree with that, though. Here the good job require USPTA certification, some low level jobs will accept PTR, if the person has ample experience.

sureshs
12-13-2006, 10:03 AM
With the USPTA I am paying for two things: 1, I'm paying for liability insurance, worth it or not. 2, I am paying for the fact that I can say I am certified, people like to see that. The dues are $225 a year.

Also, facilities will not hire a pro unless they are certified, here in the south the USPTA rules, If you are USPTA you options and opportunities. The PTR is considered a joke, I am not stating I agree with that, though. Here the good job require USPTA certification, some low level jobs will accept PTR, if the person has ample experience.

That is what I am saying. Everybody now needs to be certified in some way. The IEEE USA is trying to make certification mandatory to be a software engineer! They already succeeded in Texas, where you need the certification for state jobs. Private companies have successfully resisted the move so far. (basically, it was a reaction to outsourcing, so there are 2 sides to the story). If you play by their rules, Bill Gates could not have dropped out of Harvard and written software, nor can he hire someone he wants to hire unless they belong to the union.

People seem to crave for safety in all matters these days after 9/11. Why not take lessons from a guy you met hitting at a public court and were impressed? Take a chance, man.

NoBadMojo
12-13-2006, 10:09 AM
With the USPTA I am paying for two things: 1, I'm paying for liability insurance, worth it or not. 2, I am paying for the fact that I can say I am certified, people like to see that. The dues are $225 a year.

Also, facilities will not hire a pro unless they are certified, here in the south the USPTA rules, If you are USPTA you options and opportunities. The PTR is considered a joke, I am not stating I agree with that, though. Here the good job require USPTA certification, some low level jobs will accept PTR, if the person has ample experience.

this isnt true except in maybe your little part of the world. actuallly in the south the PTR is very strong as it's headquarters is in Hilton Head. If I'm not mistaken, the USPTA is headquareterd on the West Coast. i've taught at large faciltiies and a so called 'world class' tennis place without keeping my certification up at all (paying dues)..they were just concerned that i could teach and what my creds were. in fact i went years with no certification at all. the certification is a joke and uspta is really no better that ptr (i have no idea where you got that from). i am PTR now because the last place i taught required some sort of certification (any kind would do) and i had to provide liability insurance, which is cheap from the ptr and i presume the uspta. there were many more certification options available here in the South where I live (Florida) and very few from the USPTA. if anyone wishes to be certified <join the crowd> just pick either ptr or uspta based upon which has the closest testing facility and which offers the weekend certification which best suits your schedule (it only takes a weekend to be a pro)..LOL. you will wish to scan the materials they send you in advance so you know what to expect or ask a friend who was certified.
as to where i learned to teach. i mentored under a former all american from Rice and a former coach of the Naval Academy. for months. not one of these plunk down your money and go to a weekend certification thingies..i like to think my training and years of experience are of more value than an instant pro's.

SFrazeur
12-13-2006, 10:16 AM
That is what I am saying. Everybody now needs to be certified in some way. The IEEE USA is trying to make certification mandatory to be a software engineer! They already succeeded in Texas, where you need the certification for state jobs. Private companies have successfully resisted the move so far. (basically, it was a reaction to outsourcing, so there are 2 sides to the story). If you play by their rules, Bill Gates could not have dropped out of Harvard and written software, nor can he hire someone he wants to hire unless they belong to the union.

People seem to crave for safety in all matters these days after 9/11. Why not take lessons from a guy you met hitting at a public court and were impressed? Take a chance, man.

The thing is a person has to spend so much time getting certified for some jobs that they do not have the time to actually get experience in the field. Further more they have to be certified to get jobs to get the experience. It is ridiculous. I actually had a surprisingly large amount of experience before I got USPTA certified. I had almost five years of experience, I been teaching about 4 days a week 3-4 hours a work day for a lot of that time. With that experience I still would not be able to get a job at a facility without the USPTA certification.

drakulie
12-13-2006, 10:38 AM
When talking of teaching pros, you need to separate them into those catering to juniors or adults, though some do both.

You can't separate them into those two categories, because most certified coaches do both. I stand behind my statement that MOST (7 of 10) certfiied coaches are horrible, and most of these horrible coaches are not better than the average 3.0 player.

Of the "3" remaining, these are usually involved with their own academy, or work for a serious academy. In addition, many of these are not that great either, although they are seriously good players, but this does not always translate well into coaching.

drakulie
12-13-2006, 10:42 AM
if anyone wishes to be certified <join the crowd> just pick either ptr or uspta based upon which has the closest testing facility and which offers the weekend certification which best suits your schedule (it only takes a weekend to be a pro)..LOL. you will wish to scan the materials they send you in advance so you know what to expect or ask a friend who was certified.

Totally agree. As I said, most certified coaches are a joke. I met a kids who had been playing for 1 1/2 years. He got certified. The kid can't beat a 2.0 player he is that bad, much less teach anyone. You see this over and over.

NoBadMojo
12-13-2006, 10:52 AM
Totally agree. As I said, most certified coaches are a joke. I met a kids who had been playing for 1 1/2 years. He got certified. The kid can't beat a 2.0 player he is that bad, much less teach anyone. You see this over and over.

i dont agree that most certified coaches are a joke at all...the certification is a joke..that's what i am saying

drakulie
12-13-2006, 11:05 AM
i dont agree that most certified coaches are a joke at all...the certification is a joke..that's what i am saying

Exactly, the certification is a joke. Therefore, many, many people who have no business coaching become easily certified--hence those "certified coaches" are a joke as well.

NoBadMojo
12-13-2006, 11:14 AM
Exactly, the certification is a joke. Therefore, many, many people who have no business coaching become easily certified--hence those "certified coaches" are a joke as well.

that's some interesting rationale..you're assuming these underqualified certified teaching pros are actually finding work in any sort of meaningful way..because it is so easy to become a certified teaching pro and not expensive, there is a huge glut of certified teaching pros, many of whom arent teaching in any sort of 'real' way. they're kind of like real estate agents. in my many years working at diff facilities, i've seen maybe one who is a 3.0. you're way off base

sureshs
12-13-2006, 11:28 AM
Exactly, the certification is a joke. Therefore, many, many people who have no business coaching become easily certified--hence those "certified coaches" are a joke as well.

Certification ultimately follows the market (well, not in medicine which I think is a carefully protected union). The standards for certification usually allow for the market demand to be met. If 7 out of 10 pros are bad (according to you), that is because there is a demand for those 7 pros. If all 10 pros could be selected from people at a higher level, the certification would be tougher. Do you know that academies import pros from other countries (South America, UK, Australia) because they cannot find people? How many people want an uncertain job with no fixed salary and benefits, being subject to cancelations, totally dependent on how they are perceived, standing in the sun all day exposing yourself to skin cancer (that is why some wear full sleeves and sweatpants and caps covering their ears etc), resorts cutting staff and courts, players complaining that pros hog all the courts at their club (this issue is before the board right now at my club - very bad blood between members who claim they can't get courts and the pros) etc etc. I know tennis pros who are real-estate agents and things like that on the side to make ends meet. Also huge favoritism culture - who you know - the head pro, the club director, some influential club members. Then minority and women coaches - whole other issue. There is even a USTA initiative for that and I saw a pro wearing a T shirt from that program one day at the club. In the pro profession, people are free to choose their pro and the pros who cannot attract customers have to go. I don't want to get into that any more though as it is a very sensitive and divisive topic - K90/N90 type debates are easier. Some women pros get all the morning adult ladies, but sometimes the ladies are drawn to the handsome male pro - I am sure many pros here fall into that category :-)

NoBadMojo
12-13-2006, 11:44 AM
Certification ultimately follows the market (well, not in medicine which I think is a carefully protected union). The standards for certification usually allow for the market demand to be met. If 7 out of 10 pros are bad (according to you), that is because there is a demand for those 7 pros. If all 10 pros could be selected from people at a higher level, the certification would be tougher. Do you know that academies import pros from other countries (South America, UK, Australia) because they cannot find people? How many people want an uncertain job with no fixed salary and benefits, being subject to cancelations, totally dependent on how they are perceived, standing in the sun all day exposing yourself to skin cancer (that is why some wear full sleeves and sweatpants and caps covering their ears etc), resorts cutting staff and courts, players complaining that pros hog all the courts at their club (this issue is before the board right now at my club - very bad blood between members who claim they can't get courts and the pros) etc etc. I know tennis pros who are real-estate agents and things like that on the side to make ends meet. Also huge favoritism culture - who you know - the head pro, the club director, some influential club members. Then minority and women coaches - whole other issue. There is even a USTA initiative for that and I saw a pro wearing a T shirt from that program one day at the club. In the pro profession, people are free to choose their pro and the pros who cannot attract customers have to go. I don't want to get into that any more though as it is a very sensitive and divisive topic - K90/N90 type debates are easier. Some women pros get all the morning adult ladies, but sometimes the ladies are drawn to the handsome male pro - I am sure many pros here fall into that category :-)

ya man..people have no idea what it is like until they actually do it...they think of it as glamourous..it's FAR from that, beats your body up, and you have to tolerate all kinds 'interesting' behaviour. Nothing worse than having to give a Panty Hose lesson..thank goodness i dont have to do THAT anymore..well the ones to the ego crazed guys who think they know more than the teaching pro are even worse than the Panty Hose lessons..not possible to teach them anything at all as they already think they know everything..some will even teach you..no fun there :O

sureshs
12-13-2006, 11:46 AM
ya man..people have no idea what it is like until they actually do it...they think of it as glamourous..it's FAR from that, beats your body up, and you have to tolerate all kinds 'interesting' behaviour. Nothing worse than having to give a Panty Hose lesson..thank goodness i dont have to do THAT anymore..well the ones to the ego crazed guys who think they know more than the teaching pro are even worse than the Panty Hose lessons..not possible to teach them anything at all as they already think they know everything..some will even teach you..no fun there :O

Please elaborate on the Panty Hose lesson.

NoBadMojo
12-13-2006, 12:04 PM
Please elaborate on the Panty Hose lesson.

you know.....the unnattractive woman who plays tennis wearing panty hose? you can hear the noise caused by the friction of her chubby thighs rubbing together as they try and run? when they bend over to pick up balls, you do your level best not to look??? ;O nice tanned legs baby.....yeeehaaa!

anirut
12-13-2006, 01:00 PM
you know.....the unnattractive woman who plays tennis wearing panty hose? you can hear the noise caused by the friction of her chubby thighs rubbing together as they try and run? when they bend over to pick up balls, you do your level best not to look??? ;O nice tanned legs baby.....yeeehaaa!

LOL! That's a good one! :-D

BreakPoint
12-13-2006, 01:17 PM
i dont agree that most certified coaches are a joke at all...the certification is a joke..that's what i am saying
Huh? But what's the difference? If the certification is a "joke", then that would make people that are certified a "joke".

Would we have good doctors if all you needed to get an M.D. degree and be a certified practicing surgeon is to pass high school biology? And more importantly, would you trust these "certified" doctors to perform open heart surgery on you?

drakulie
12-13-2006, 01:26 PM
that's some interesting rationale..you're assuming these underqualified certified teaching pros are actually finding work in any sort of meaningful way

I'm not assuming anything. I have seen it first hand.

..because it is so easy to become a certified teaching pro and not expensive, there is a huge glut of certified teaching pros, many of whom arent teaching in any sort of 'real' way.

They may not be "teaching", which I agree with you, but they ARE employed.

SFrazeur
12-13-2006, 01:26 PM
Ed, let me clarify, I live in the central south, what some might refer to as old south, the attitude certainly is. Also note that am only 22, a mere slip of a man. Most of the pros in my city are middle aged, I would not be surprised if I am the youngest pro trying to work in the city.


you know.....the unnattractive woman who plays tennis wearing panty hose? you can hear the noise caused by the friction of her chubby thighs rubbing together as they try and run? when they bend over to pick up balls, you do your level best not to look??? ;O nice tanned legs baby.....yeeehaaa!

:shock: I have yet to run into that.

sureshs
12-13-2006, 01:51 PM
Huh? But what's the difference? If the certification is a "joke", then that would make people that are certified a "joke".

Would we have good doctors if all you needed to get an M.D. degree and be a certified practicing surgeon is to pass high school biology? And more importantly, would you trust these "certified" doctors to perform open heart surgery on you?

Why couldn't someone get the "joke" certification, then use that to teach and gain experience on his own, and become a great coach? The medicine example is totally irrelevant - you can't cut up a patient and gain experience after high school biology, but you can play and teach tennis with/without the certification.

BreakPoint
12-13-2006, 02:04 PM
Why couldn't someone get the "joke" certification, then use that to teach and gain experience on his own, and become a great coach? The medicine example is totally irrelevant - you can't cut up a patient and gain experience after high school biology, but you can play and teach tennis with/without the certification.
But that was my point! Would you want a newly "certified" pro to gain his experience at your expense (figuratively and literally)? Just like you wouldn't want a newly "certified" surgeon (who has only passed high school biology) to gain his experience at your expense, either, right?

Sure, you can say the surgeon example can't happen because it's not allowed, but that was my point - perhaps the teaching pro example shouldn't be allowed either. Tougher certification would stop both examples.

emerckx53
12-13-2006, 04:47 PM
How many of you will be buying the K factor sticks, why, and what will it replace?

Get ahold of yourselves people....this is marketing 101 by the king of marketing Wilson....I am sure you will all go from 3.0 to 5.0 because of this stick.....;) if it works for you fine BUT it sounds like many are walking to mecca blindfolded...

drakulie
12-13-2006, 04:50 PM
..I am sure you will all go from 3.0 to 5.0 because of this stick.....;) if it works for you fine BUT it sounds like many are walking to mecca blindfolded...

Don't all 3.0's walk to "mecca" (any tennis shop), "blindfolded"? So doesn't really matter what they use.

OrangeOne
12-13-2006, 04:59 PM
Get ahold of yourselves people....this is marketing 101 by the king of marketing Wilson....I am sure you will all go from 3.0 to 5.0 because of this stick.....;) if it works for you fine BUT it sounds like many are walking to mecca blindfolded...

I keep checking back into this thread every now and then. The fact that now 70 unique people have selected that they will buy a 4.5+ (5.0+) racquet that only a handful have even touched, let alone evaluated/demo'd - continues to amuse me. I guess it proves three things to varying degrees:

1. Marketing hype actually works (or spun a different way, sponsoring players is a very valid use of advertising dollars ;)).
2. People are willing to vote / say anything on a message board (I refuse to believe that all of those 70 will stump up the $$ for the 90sq in frame)
3. People will insist to play with racquets that are very inappropriate for their skill levels to look good / play with the racquet a pro does.

drakulie
12-13-2006, 05:01 PM
orange, I agree with you for the most part. However, the "people" you mention in #3 do not "look good" playing with tweeners either. Who are you trying to kid??

OrangeOne
12-13-2006, 05:45 PM
orange, I agree with you for the most part. However, the "people" you mention in #3 do not "look good" playing with tweeners either. Who are you trying to kid??

;). C'mon drak, everyone looks good playing tennis! Ok - so I am joking a bit.

Remarkably, in some ways, though, it's true. I'd find anyone at least a little more attractive if they even try to play a sport / be active, as opposed to someone who lives on the couch / purely in clubs & pubs...

Oh - and to properly reply to your point - everyone mainly wants to look good ....to their mates.

sureshs
12-13-2006, 06:19 PM
I keep checking back into this thread every now and then. The fact that now 70 unique people have selected that they will buy a 4.5+ (5.0+) racquet that only a handful have even touched, let alone evaluated/demo'd - continues to amuse me. I guess it proves three things to varying degrees:

1. Marketing hype actually works (or spun a different way, sponsoring players is a very valid use of advertising dollars ;)).
2. People are willing to vote / say anything on a message board (I refuse to believe that all of those 70 will stump up the $$ for the 90sq in frame)
3. People will insist to play with racquets that are very inappropriate for their skill levels to look good / play with the racquet a pro does.

But 108 people won't buy the racquet.

OrangeOne
12-13-2006, 06:48 PM
But 108 people won't buy the racquet.

That, on it's own, proves little. That's 108 people not wanting to buy any k-factor, ie. 108 people perhaps not even wanting to buy a Wilson....

Now to look at the stats...

K90 "Federer" 70 34.65%
K95 16*18 13 6.44%
K95 18*20 8 3.96%
K95 16*18 27.5 inch 10 4.95%
No, thanks 108 53.47%

Of the 200 (quite a reasonable sample) people on these boards who have responded, around half claim to want to buy a k-factor, and about half don't want one.

The amazing (scary) statistic is that of those 101 people who claim to want to buy ANY f-factor stick, 70% claim to want a 90 sq in frame with a small sweetspot!

That is player (Federer) worship, and nothing more. Hasn't it been said somewhere that 70% of regular players are 3.5-4.0? Allowing for 15% below and 15% above, that's just obscene. Even if the level on this forum is somewhat higher than average, it's still amazing and scary to see the above.

There is no justification i can think of, other than player-worship or maybe the false hope of playing with a more demanding racquet improving one's game, for the outstanding favourite in the above poll to be the k90. None. One of the 95s should be the favourite, and thus we'd end up with a bell-curve for racquets that comes closer to approximating a player-ability curve.

I'm happy to listen if anyone else has an idea?

Duzza
12-13-2006, 06:59 PM
That, on it's own, proves little. That's 108 people not wanting to buy any k-factor, ie. 108 people perhaps not even wanting to buy a Wilson....

Now to look at the stats...

K90 "Federer" 70 34.65%
K95 16*18 13 6.44%
K95 18*20 8 3.96%
K95 16*18 27.5 inch 10 4.95%
No, thanks 108 53.47%

Of the 200 (quite a reasonable sample) people on these boards who have responded, around half claim to want to buy a k-factor, and about half don't want one.

The amazing (scary) statistic is that of those 101 people who claim to want to buy ANY f-factor stick, 70% claim to want a 90 sq in frame with a small sweetspot!

That is player (Federer) worship, and nothing more. Hasn't it been said somewhere that 70% of regular players are 3.5-4.0? Allowing for 15% below and 15% above, that's just obscene. Even if the level on this forum is somewhat higher than average, it's still amazing and scary to see the above.

There is no justification i can think of, other than player-worship or maybe the false hope of playing with a more demanding racquet improving one's game, for the outstanding favourite in the above poll to be the k90. None. One of the 95s should be the favourite, and thus we'd end up with a bell-curve for racquets that comes closer to approximating a player-ability curve.

I'm happy to listen if anyone else has an idea?

Maybe we're all just really really really really good.

NoBadMojo
12-13-2006, 07:04 PM
That, on it's own, proves little. That's 108 people not wanting to buy any k-factor, ie. 108 people perhaps not even wanting to buy a Wilson....

Now to look at the stats...

K90 "Federer" 70 34.65%
K95 16*18 13 6.44%
K95 18*20 8 3.96%
K95 16*18 27.5 inch 10 4.95%
No, thanks 108 53.47%

Of the 200 (quite a reasonable sample) people on these boards who have responded, around half claim to want to buy a k-factor, and about half don't want one.

The amazing (scary) statistic is that of those 101 people who claim to want to buy ANY f-factor stick, 70% claim to want a 90 sq in frame with a small sweetspot!

That is player (Federer) worship, and nothing more. Hasn't it been said somewhere that 70% of regular players are 3.5-4.0? Allowing for 15% below and 15% above, that's just obscene. Even if the level on this forum is somewhat higher than average, it's still amazing and scary to see the above.

There is no justification i can think of, other than player-worship or maybe the false hope of playing with a more demanding racquet improving one's game, for the outstanding favourite in the above poll to be the k90. None. One of the 95s should be the favourite, and thus we'd end up with a bell-curve for racquets that comes closer to approximating a player-ability curve.

I'm happy to listen if anyone else has an idea?

In a nutshell:

- This forum is not indicative or representative of the real tennis playing public

- Some/many people choose racquets for reasons other than making the best choice that will allow them to play their best tennis.

OrangeOne
12-13-2006, 07:17 PM
In a nutshell:

- This forum is not indicative or representative of the real tennis playing public

- Some/many people choose racquets for reasons other than making the best choice that will allow them to play their best tennis.

On those points, and I think the general thoughts behind them (especially the second point), NoBadMojo, we agree :).

Now - back to searching for my next racquet, which for the record will not be a k90, or anything 90 for that matter :)

Offshore
12-13-2006, 07:29 PM
I don't get this one either :confused: At the tournament, collegiate, and even club level I have not seen many sub 95" frames during the past two or three years. I have coached some D1 and either play in or watch many open tourneys and I could count on one hand the amount of "mid" frames out there being used. Maybe a couple Prestige mids/ ncode 90's but certainly not many. This poll astounds me because I have never really known many players that choose a stick that does not help them win...or that somehow makes them look like a "player" because of a small head frame. I am truly puzzled.

drakulie
12-13-2006, 07:34 PM
In a nutshell:

- This forum is not indicative or representative of the real tennis playing public

Completely disagree. If it "wasn't representative of the real tennis playing public", then the following would hold true:

1. Most people on these boards would be advanced players 5.0 and above. In this case, anyone (including you) stating the k-90 or any other "players" racquet is too demanding for most of the posters on here would be full of it.

or;

2. The majority of the posters are beginners.


This forum is very reflective of the tennis playing public. There are a lot beginners, a lot of intermediate, and very few advanced players.

- Some/many people choose racquets for reasons other than making the best choice that will allow them to play their best tennis.

Disagree. Most racquets sold are "tweener racquets", not "player racquets".

But I do feel that beginners should play with advanced racquets--not tweener racquets. But to each his own.

Fedace
12-13-2006, 07:49 PM
If they made the K-factor similar to N-code npro open X, i will definitely buy it, but i want a stiffer version of it though. Does anyone know if wilson is planning such a stick with K-factor ?

SFrazeur
12-13-2006, 08:20 PM
If they made the K-factor similar to N-code npro open X, i will definitely buy it, but i want a stiffer version of it though. Does anyone know if wilson is planning such a stick with K-factor ?


They will have something like that, if not then they would have a whole in their racquet offerings. A company would not allow that as long as that type of racquet was popular in the market. As for the stiffness, I think an attraction of the Wilson's version of the Pure Drive is that it is less stiff. If it is that the nPro open feels a little unstable, then that is where lead tape comes in.

hadoken
12-13-2006, 08:22 PM
I have no idea whether the *average* poster here is "good" or not. My rule of thumb is whether the person played varsity high school and kept up with the sport.

But back to the Wilson 90, of course people are buying it for Federer - it's no different than when I owned a Donnay Pro One due to Agassi. What surprises me is that people can tolerate using it. You either have to be very very good (and you can really fine tune to a stick) or very very mediocre (where your game is pretty underdeveloped and your range of shotmaking is pretty narrow).

Having said that, I think the key to the right racquet is longevity. Every frame has shortcomings so learning those shortcoming takes time. People should hold on to their sticks much longer and their game should improve. I'm far from the best player, but I know I am the best player I can be when I use my frames I've had for over a decade. If you find something that kinda works OK, I'd just stick it out for a while.

BreakPoint
12-13-2006, 08:58 PM
The amazing (scary) statistic is that of those 101 people who claim to want to buy ANY f-factor stick, 70% claim to want a 90 sq in frame with a small sweetspot!

That is player (Federer) worship, and nothing more.

I'm happy to listen if anyone else has an idea?
Hey, I wish the K-90 was even SMALLER than 90 sq. in. I played with a 65 sq. in. wood racquet tonight for the first time in like 20 years and I played even BETTER or at least about the same as with my nCode 90! :-o And that wood racquet was over 25 years old, stored all this time without a press, and had cheap 25 year-old nylon strings in it. You would think at least the strings would be brittle or lost most of its tension by now, but I still played great with it. My nCode 90 looked like a monstrosity held up next to the wood racquet.

The extra weight helped me to nail my groundstrokes and the control and accuracy were out of this world. And the feel was heavenly. I haven't hit backhand slices that good in at least 20 years! And it was next to impossible to hit the ball long no matter how hard I swung at the ball, and I was able to generate lots of topspin with no problems at all. :D

OrangeOne
12-13-2006, 09:39 PM
Hey, I wish the K-90 was even SMALLER than 90 sq. in. I played with a 65 sq. in. wood racquet tonight for the first time in like 20 years and I played even BETTER or at least about the same as with my nCode 90! :-o And that wood racquet was over 25 years old, stored all this time without a press, and had cheap 25 year-old nylon strings in it. You would think at least the strings would be brittle or lost most of its tension by now, but I still played great with it. My nCode 90 looked like a monstrosity held up next to the wood racquet.

The extra weight helped me to nail my groundstrokes and the control and accuracy were out of this world. And the feel was heavenly. I haven't hit backhand slices that good in at least 20 years! And it was next to impossible to hit the ball long no matter how hard I swung at the ball, and I was able to generate lots of topspin with no problems at all. :D

I have had a somewhat similar experience, (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=91307) but that said mine wasn't nearly as extreme.

Still, you're a somewhat old-school player, who has an appropriate game and plenty of skills. Juniors today learning their craft, and anyone below 4 or 4.5, well, in my opinion is only going to hurt themselves by using a racquet with a too-small head.

That said, it's not like this debate hasn't been had a few times. Good luck with the woodie, it would sure as hell intimidate me if someone came out against me and started playing with a woodie, that's for sure....

BreakPoint
12-13-2006, 10:18 PM
Good luck with the woodie, it would sure as hell intimidate me if someone came out against me and started playing with a woodie, that's for sure....
Yeah, I beat this guy tonight with it, while he was using an OS Prince racquet, and he was ROYALLY ****ed off! :-D LOL

This confirmed to me that all of this new technology, big heads, stiff powerful frames, and even graphite itself, ain't worth crap! :-o

OrangeOne
12-13-2006, 10:26 PM
Yeah, I beat this guy tonight with it, while he was using an OS Prince racquet, and he was ROYALLY ****ed off! :-D LOL

This confirmed to me that all of this new technology, big heads, stiff powerful frames, and even graphite itself, ain't worth crap! :-o

Perhaps you're just not talented enough to take advantage of it? ;)

(OK - That was a complete joke before people kill me - I just had to do something other than take the bait there BreakPoint :). Umm, err, damn now I want to rock up to a hit-around session and beat someone with a woodie!).

AndrewD
12-14-2006, 07:43 AM
This forum is very reflective of the tennis playing public. There are a lot beginners, a lot of intermediate, and very few advanced players.

No, it isn't. The 'Racquets' section we're posting in is a forum. The message board consists of many forums but he's only talking about one of them. In this forum there are far less beginners who post than people who claim to be at a 4.0+ level. That isn't indicative of the real world. The other and chief reason why this forum isn't indicative of the tennis playing public is that most all of them aren't interested in posting on a message board about racquets.


Disagree. Most racquets sold are "tweener racquets", not "player racquets".

Most = Not All. That means, there's still a sizable population left over that can fit into the some/many bracket.

Also, he never mentioned player's racquets. All he said is that some/many buy racquets for reasons other than improving their game. I'm sure you've seen many instances of people buying the Pure Drive, AeroPro Drive, 03 White, Radical, even the Pure Storm - all tweener racquets- because of reasons other than the value they will have for their game.

WhiteSox05CA
12-16-2006, 06:49 PM
At this pont, 71 people said they are going to buy the K-90. And how many of them should be using that demanding of a stick? How many of them have even tried any of the K-Factors?

looseswing
12-16-2006, 08:39 PM
Just a thought, but perhaps the immense interest in the 90 vs. the other sizes is because CC specifically stated that he thought that the larger headsizes were worse than the ncode models? I still do agree that the number of people saying they will buy/not buy is astounding.

mhstennis100
12-16-2006, 08:41 PM
They just look to ugly for me to play with them.

Borat
12-16-2006, 08:51 PM
You guys are idiots. Buying the K90 will hurt your game much more than help it! I've loved 12 oz. frames forever. Im playing the KSixOne Team now, and I love it (10.8 oz.). YOUR NOT ROGER FEDERER! That frame is like a 6.0 frame! Check yo self befo you reck yo self!

baros
12-16-2006, 08:52 PM
i will be buying about three if i like it after i demo this week.

emerckx53
12-16-2006, 09:32 PM
I see Wilson has been dispensing a new flavor called K Factor.........one sip and you spend $190.00 on a stick that makes your game worse......

BreakPoint
12-17-2006, 04:43 PM
I see Wilson has been dispensing a new flavor called K Factor.........one sip and you spend $190.00 on a stick that makes your game worse......

Have you already played with the racquet and found that it "makes your game worse"? If not, how is it possible for you to make such a prejudiced claim? :confused:

sureshs
12-17-2006, 04:57 PM
Hit with the N90 today to refresh my memory. Nothing new to say, really. Very precise and heavy serves, but groundstrokes take a lot of effort (i.e., longer and faster swings) to achieve depth, shots which are mishit feel harsh, and when stretched out wide, quite a big problem getting the ball across. No, definitely not the stick for someone like me.

But the pace and control on the serves keeps lingering in my mind .....