Serving question for shorter player

[oray777]

Anyone have problem getting their first serve in consistently when your a shorter player? I'm 5'9". Does anyone have any suggestion on how to improve my first serve?

[Tennismastery]

Even at 5'9", you should be able to hit well over 110 mph with the right technique. There are many threads here that talk about height and serving.

Your first goal is to develop the right swing path with the continental grip. I would suggest learning a slice serve as your foundation. With spin, you will be able to hit an effective serve whereas your flat serve will be a very low percentage serve and making you rely on your second serve much more. Without significant spin, you won't have much of a second serve. And this limitation will severly limit your ability to play at higher levels even as the rest of your game improves.

I have demonstrated serving on my knees at over 90 mph and getting the serve in...this is when I am using no legs, almost no lower body rotation, and no push into the court...not to mention I'm only about 4 feet tall when I'm on my knees.

So, don't let your height keep you from setting this as a goal and then working hard to achieve it.

Good luck!

[TonyB]

You're not that short. There are plenty of people around here that are 5' 6" (like me) or shorter. Olivier Rochus is 5' 5" tall, plays on the pro tour (ranked in the 30's, maybe?) and serves very respectably.

Practice a fluid service motion. Learn to supinate on the takeback and pronate on the follow-through and you'll be serving bombs in no time.

[dave333]

are you kidding me? 5 feet 9 isn't that bad. if your 5 feet 5, then more issues.

[Kabob190]

im tall, but when i was first learning to serve i was way off balance and i would hit bad tosses. my coach had me sit on a small stool and hit serves from there. i was getting real good angles and power. probably not 90 mph but still good.

[Tennismastery]

Also, try standing on one leg and serve. This teaches you to serve with better balance and learn to push off with the correct foot. If you are right handed, stand on you left foot and balance on it. Serve and push off this foot landing on it as your right leg kicks back.

Many of my students, after getting the hang of balancing, end up serving better serves than they were with both feet. Because you are forced to balance, your serve will improve greatly.

[SocalTennis]

Even at 5'9", you should be able to hit well over 110 mph with the right technique. There are many threads here that talk about height and serving.

Your first goal is to develop the right swing path with the continental grip. I would suggest learning a slice serve as your foundation. With spin, you will be able to hit an effective serve whereas your flat serve will be a very low percentage serve and making you rely on your second serve much more. Without significant spin, you won't have much of a second serve. And this limitation will severly limit your ability to play at higher levels even as the rest of your game improves.

I have demonstrated serving on my knees at over 90 mph and getting the serve in...this is when I am using no legs, almost no lower body rotation, and no push into the court...not to mention I'm only about 4 feet tall when I'm on my knees.

So, don't let your height keep you from setting this as a goal and then working hard to achieve it.

Good luck!

I'm only 5'6" and I can clock consistently 100+ mph first serves (about 75-80%). The key is not to attemp flat serve since I do not have the height for proper angle on those flat serve. I mostly use slice first serves and use a lot of leg power to give myself about 1 foot in the air at contact.

[Tennismastery]

I'm only 5'6" and I can clock consistently 100+ mph first serves (about 75-80%). The key is not to attemp flat serve since I do not have the height for proper angle on those flat serve. I mostly use slice first serves and use a lot of leg power to give myself about 1 foot in the air at contact.

You are going about it correctly. Certainly, your 100+mph serve should demonstrate to everyone that height is not as big of an issue as technique. Spin is used even in so called flat serves as you mentioned.

[oray777]

So do you think putting more slice into my flat serve will make it more effective? Thanks for the advice and i'll work on it.

[oray777]

Also, try standing on one leg and serve. This teaches you to serve with better balance and learn to push off with the correct foot. If you are right handed, stand on you left foot and balance on it. Serve and push off this foot landing on it as your right leg kicks back.

Many of my students, after getting the hang of balancing, end up serving better serves than they were with both feet. Because you are forced to balance, your serve will improve greatly.

You have instruction book or video?

[SocalTennis]

So do you think putting more slice into my flat serve will make it more effective? Thanks for the advice and i'll work on it.

Use your same motion, hit up and forward instead of hitting down on the ball. I've been getting great results since I changed my serve.

[Tennismastery]

You have instruction book or video?

My first book, TENNIS MASTERY, is available here at Tennis Warehouse. (In the book section)...I will be releasing my second book, COACHING MASTERY, a book designed for tennis coaches, teaching pros, and tennis parents, in how to train juniors, adults, large groups, teams and the like, will be out this year...Proabably around May or June.

TENNIS MASTERY, discusses the fundamental flaws in most current teaching methods (those methods that are at first easy to learn but must change for players to reach higher levels of skilled play), and it teaches the methods that allow for player evolution and personality to occur; allowing player-embellishments to enhance the method instead of teaching methods that MUST change for player development. We all know how hard, if not frustratingly impossible it often is for players to change grips, swing patterns or footwork habits once they are employed in competition. However, with the right tools, players can still make necessary changes in their game. That is what TENNIS MASTERY provides.

Thanks for asking.

[ionutzakis]

1) Is a slice serve a lower percentage serve? It is to be used as 1st serve, right? not as second serve

2) I'm also ~ 5'7 and my partners tell me "why don't you serve more flat, you put too much spin"? I don't like the lower percentage of the flat serve. I feel like I should invest my time more towards topspin/kickserve that spending it on perfecting a flat serve that will never be a consistent weapon due to my not being very tall. Is this wise?

3) for people not as tall, what is the best serve hitting stance? Pinpoint or platform? With pinpoint is seems that I get a higher reach and more speed, but it's hard to be balanced all the time. With platform, I get more consistency, less spin, but better topspin serves, and also requires less effort.

[Tennismastery]

A slice serve is a higher percentage serve than a 'flat' serve. However, the topspin, hybrid, and kick serves give you a higher error room over the net than a pure slice. And, no, the slice is not the only spin to use on a first serve. Most pros hit some element of a hybrid/kick serve on their first serve while leaning in to the court.

Instead of trying to specifically hit 'flatter' as your friends recommend, try to lean into your serve more by tossing more into the court and going after it with your current swing path, but adding the body's thrust into the court. By leaning in, you will automatically hit the ball flatter anyway, but still emphasize the brushing component and you will have a bigger, heavier serve.

[maleyoyo]

Instead of trying to specifically hit 'flatter' as your friends recommend, try to lean into your serve more by tossing more into the court and going after it with your current swing path, but adding the body's thrust into the court. By leaning in, you will automatically hit the ball flatter anyway, but still emphasize the brushing component and you will have a bigger, heavier serve.

It's so frustrating because I fully understand what you are saying, but I have had a hard time putting it into practice. I have a decent serve and try to do everything right... knees bend, tossing into the court, backscratch, shoulder rotation, relaxed arm + grip and what not. Still, I FEEL I "arm" the serve too much, even my friends say so. As a results, my arm is tired from serving towards the end of the match.
The way I see it, the leg power helps me to propel into the air and that's it. The power of the serve mainly comes from my upper body. I apply the same principle when I jump and spike playing volleyball.
What Am I missing here? How do I put it together for a more effective serve?
Thanks.

[ionutzakis]

[QUOTE=maleyoyo;1191920] my arm is tired from serving towards the end of the match.
QUOTE]

Same here. In order to avoid getting my arm tired I try very hard to get that first serve in. So I'm avoiding flat serves as I noticed that they are draining the most energy.

I would take 10 training hours with 10 different coaches and see what kind of advices they have to say. At 16 bucks per hour (including the court), I think it's worth it.

So far I've taken lessons with two (~ 10 hours each) but none of them have been able to explain a proper serve to me, or atleast I've not seen any results. Most of my improvement is due to this forum and the paid internet sites.

Why is it so hard to explain and teach a serve for a coach?

[Tennismastery]

It's so frustrating because I fully understand what you are saying, but I have had a hard time putting it into practice. I have a decent serve and try to do everything right... knees bend, tossing into the court, backscratch, shoulder rotation, relaxed arm + grip and what not. Still, I FEEL I "arm" the serve too much, even my friends say so. As a results, my arm is tired from serving towards the end of the match.
The way I see it, the leg power helps me to propel into the air and that's it. The power of the serve mainly comes from my upper body. I apply the same principle when I jump and spike playing volleyball.
What Am I missing here? How do I put it together for a more effective serve?
Thanks.

If you are 'arming' the serve too much, it could be two things: one, you are over rotating out of your coil (or rotating too early) and thus you have lost the kinetic chain of this sequence within your serve, or two, you are going to your back-scratch position too early having to wait there and then lose the whip potential.

Try to say sideways longer. This will feel a little weird if you have been over rotating. It should feel like your racquet is pulling you around (through its acceleration) rather than you trying to pull the racquet around. Also, try to keep your racquet head pointed up towards the sky over your opponent's head longer (similar to the 'stalking' concept that has been discussed with forehands), so that you can whip the racquet down and back up to contact like a whip.

See if any of this helps.

[Tennismastery]

QUOTE]


Why is it so hard to explain and teach a serve for a coach?[/QUOTE]

Because so many coaches really don't understand the dynamics of a good serve.

It is amazing to me to hear from so-called legitimate teaching pros some of the advice that they are offering. From stepping through with the back foot first, to the advice that it is ok to serve with an eastern forehand grip, to the advice to try and toss the ball only as high as you can reach. (You NEVER see pros and skilled players do these things!)

There is a great deal of advice out there that is based on getting a player to 'get the ball in' but flies in the face of necessary methods to have a player reach their potential in tennis.

[maleyoyo]

If you are 'arming' the serve too much, it could be two things: one, you are over rotating out of your coil (or rotating too early) and thus you have lost the kinetic chain of this sequence within your serve, or two, you are going to your back-scratch position too early having to wait there and then lose the whip potential.



Guilty as charged on both counts. I tend to over rotate when serving from the AD court since I plant my feet parallel to the baseline. And I can feel my back-scratch is not in sync with the rest of the motion.
Thanks for the tip, I will try to work on it.

[VGP]

It is amazing to me to hear from so-called legitimate teaching pros some of the advice that they are offering. From stepping through with the back foot first, to the advice that it is ok to serve with an eastern forehand grip, to the advice to try and toss the ball only as high as you can reach. (You NEVER see pros and skilled players do these things!)

There is a great deal of advice out there that is based on getting a player to 'get the ball in' but flies in the face of necessary methods to have a player reach their potential in tennis.

Just playing devil's advocate.....I know that his technique was unique, but Boris Becker kinda did these things. Petr Korda also stepped through with his back foot....

I may have to check out your book though....

[Tennismastery]

Just playing devil's advocate.....I know that his technique was unique, but Boris Becker kinda did these things. Petr Korda also stepped through with his back foot....

I may have to check out your book though....

While Becker did indeed step through with his back foot, his hips and upperbody rotation followed that of conventional professional servers. So, while he had a unique pattern, if you look at him from the hips up, he was no different than those who kick the back leg back before stepping through.

The problem is with the recreational or club player who sees the foot stepping through and figures they must be doing something right if the great Becker did it. Well, they aren't because when most players step through before contact, the hips open up early as well as the shoulder plane and then they are forced to hit a fairly flat serve...and then they wonder why they can't learn to hit a kick or topspin serve either.

Hey, Franscoise Durr was a pro in the late 60's and put her index finger up the shaft of the racquet and made it to a fairly high level for that period...I didn't see too many pros emulating that stroke. The point is, when a single pro gains some success using something unique, you must look at it as a idiosyncracy or as a more effective/efficient method. Stepping through on the serve is, in most cases, very disruptive to the learning process.

And, we also can ask one other question: How good of serve would Becker had if he had learned the footwork within the patterns we see today? Maybe not at all. But, the question needs to be out there and not assume only that his great serve (and it was excellent) was because of the unique pattern and not that of other swing charicteristics that are very much similar to good servers today.