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View Full Version : deep shots to my feet. Anyway to retrieve and hit an effect?


ericwong
08-26-2004, 09:26 PM
This chap of mine is good with hitting deep shot right to my feet. He disguised the shots well and I realised that , it jammed up my stroke. Anyway to return it well?


:?

mucat
08-26-2004, 09:57 PM
Where were you standing? At the baseline?

perfmode
08-26-2004, 10:12 PM
Never stand on the line. Thats no-man's land. Stand far enough back so that even if the ball hits right on the line, you can have enough time to take a hop back to catch it @ a comfortable level.

Power Game
08-27-2004, 05:43 AM
The baseline isn't neccesarrily no-man's land. You should start off a couple of feet behind it then work yourself up.

ericwong
08-27-2004, 07:51 AM
I stand a couple of feet behind the baseline most of the time. The problem is the shots are just in front of the baseline and it skidded off to a low shot. I have to bend low to hit a defensive but I could not generate enough power to return those shots. It landed on the service line of my opponent, which he gladly put it away. I tried to slice it off but the percentage to clear the net is 50-50 percent.

Anyway to hit a shot to get my opponent off my back?

mucat
08-28-2004, 11:54 PM
What type of shot did your partner hit? Topspin? Slice? Was that a low bounce or just high bounce but you catch it low? Was it fast?

I found if I am in a defensive situation at the baseline, hit a deep topspin shot will neutralize the disadvantage, deep and to the weak side is even better, but if the opponent is good and come to the net, you will need to lob.

pchoi04
08-29-2004, 01:28 AM
well... I would think that if a ball is hitting to where your feet is then your just not moving enough... You should recognize the shot early... If its flat and coming in fast then just shorten up the backswing and take it off the rise... But I would imagine it would have to depend on what kind of shot it was... If your getting a shot thats high enough/deep enough to hit your feet then I would maybe try to volley it back maybe? I've never really had that happen to me at the baseline but in nomans land, yes... because your just caught in the middle. Either move up or stay back? Please post more info...

ericwong
08-29-2004, 05:59 AM
To pchoi04

Thanks for your input. If you understand my earlier post, you will realise there is not much room to work on. Firstly, it skidded off the baseline to a very low bouncing shot. Secondly, it was not a slice but a forehand. It was not high enough to hit on the rise. I realise further I need to do a slice and slice it deep, hitting on a 50-50 chance of getting the ball to clear the net.

Chanchai
08-29-2004, 06:19 AM
Eric, just thought I'd share in the pain. I have a couple friends (who don't know each other and live in totally different places) that hit shots like this. it's hard to describe aside from saying that their shots are relatively flat, maybe a bit of topspin, they have good pace (varying from rally speed to a bit faster), and stay insanely low.

If you stand back quite a bit, you feel you have to really step in and dig in to hit the shot and with a simple misread, the ball will just hit the ground again or just be too hard to return. However, if you step in and the ball goes deeper than read or expected, you feel forced to hit a defensive shot off your backfoot because it's hard to dig into that ball assertively.

Is this the kind of shot you're describing?

Anyhow... I can't offer any real answers... just that this type of shot has been the bane of my tennis existence for awhile, but I've been getting better and better at dealing with them. More or less, I construct points out of these situations--going for a deep slice or a heavy topspin shot at an extreme angle. Sometimes just moonballing these things back to encourage the opponent to hit something I'd much rather return than these low rally strokes.

As long as I can get to the ball, I feel more comfortable returning blasted winner attempts than these insanely low rally balls. But that doesn't mean I give sitters to my opponent.

I usually just take the situation (low rally shots) as an opportunity to slice the ball with a bit more touch, an opportunity to lob/moonball, or an opportunity to work on loopers and dippers. And integrate those aspects into point construction.

-Chanchai

tennisplayer
08-29-2004, 11:15 AM
Glad to see I'm not the only one with this problem!

The thing is, a deep, flat, low-bouncing ball is a great shot. If your opponent can do this - as one of my partners does all the time - you are in trouble! As I just mentioned in another post, the way I am planning to deal with this is by staying back a few feet behind the baseline. Yeah, I'll have to run more than I want to, but not being Agassi, what other option do I have? :(

Of course, I try to give my opponent high bouncing top-spin shots - he hates those because he hits really flat - and I have to do more of these to his backhand. We do have close matches, and so I think that once I figure this out, I will have the advantage - until he figures me out again!

vin
08-29-2004, 01:21 PM
I usually stand only about a foot behind the baseline. When I'm practicing, I take balls that land close to the baseline, or even past it, right off of the bounce. I take a full but slow swing and just try to get it back deep. Why don't you try doing this in your practice also? Maybe you'll find that you can do it well enough to try it in matches. Then you don't have to give up your position on the baseline. If it's a hard hit ball, chances are you may not have enough time to retreat back far enough and hit a well balanced shot anyway. Just a thought.

tennisplayer
08-29-2004, 02:02 PM
Vin, that's a good suggestion. As it stands, my practice partner and I have similar styles - semi-western forehand, topspin off both sides. I'll have to ask him to hit me some deep slices... good idea, thanks!

Bungalo Bill
08-31-2004, 10:20 AM
It is not necessarily where you stand that makes the difference here. Afterall, you will be moving all about the court in real play.

It is about how soon you can pick up the ball and recognize where it is going to BOUNCE so you can adjust to the ball according to your ability. If you cant take it on the rise, you have to back up - period. You have to back up quickly and hit a more defensive groundstroke back to the opponent to nuetralize his good shot.

Many players see Agassi taking balls on the rise, he also takes deep balls behind the baseline as well.

Your vision and footwork need to work quickly together so you can make a good stroke.

HIT BOUNCE HIT.

Bungalo Bill
08-31-2004, 10:22 AM
It is not necessarily where you stand that makes the difference here. Afterall, you will be moving all about the court in real play.

It is about how soon you can pick up the ball and recognize where it is going to BOUNCE so you can adjust to the ball according to your ability and hit it in your strike zone. If you cant take it on the rise, you have to back up - period. You have to back up quickly and hit a more defensive groundstroke back to the opponent to nuetralize his good shot.

Many players see Agassi taking balls on the rise, he also takes deep balls behind the baseline as well.

Your vision and footwork need to work quickly together so you can make a good stroke.

HIT BOUNCE HIT.

papa
08-31-2004, 04:31 PM
BB - although it is a difficult shot especially on the return of service (for me anyway) I seem to have had success in keeping my forward motion going (running through the shot) assuming I was trying to get to second volley position. I know this doesn't seem natural to many but stopping to take this kind of shot seems to produce bad results. It seems to me that many are almost frozen in place after serving and seem somewhat in shock that the ball is even returned to them. I have also seen some serve (mainly in doubles) and then retreat as if to hide.

You know more about this stuff than anyone I've ever known and I was wondering what your thoughts were.

Bungalo Bill
09-01-2004, 09:39 AM
BB - although it is a difficult shot especially on the return of service (for me anyway) I seem to have had success in keeping my forward motion going (running through the shot) assuming I was trying to get to second volley position. I know this doesn't seem natural to many but stopping to take this kind of shot seems to produce bad results. It seems to me that many are almost frozen in place after serving and seem somewhat in shock that the ball is even returned to them. I have also seen some serve (mainly in doubles) and then retreat as if to hide.

You know more about this stuff than anyone I've ever known and I was wondering what your thoughts were.

Papa,

All you're telling me is you have found a way that works for you on this difficult ball. You are seeing the ball and adjusting to the ball appropriately to what you know you can do.

I dont know if you are truly running through the ball. I can bet your forward movement is measured along with your swing to take the ball early.

That is great!

papa
09-03-2004, 01:53 PM
BB - you're right on this and I expressed an opinion rather poorly.

I see so many who are just completely off balance AFTER the serve that among being surprised that the ball is even returned to them after the serve, they are NOT in very good positions to execute the NEXT shot. You have aften said that balance is a key element to any shot (I think most of us agree - at least I hope everyone does) but so many can serve fairly well (some extremely well) and land in ackward positions and seem slow to recover.

Most good players are going to return a high percentage of serves so you better be ready to hit the next shot. I don't think one should watch their ball after they hit/serve but rather watch the player(s). Some may take issue with this but I really think watching the ball go away is not good.

Bungalo Bill
09-03-2004, 02:31 PM
BB - you're right on this and I expressed an opinion rather poorly.

I see so many who are just completely off balance AFTER the serve that among being surprised that the ball is even returned to them after the serve, they are NOT in very good positions to execute the NEXT shot. You have aften said that balance is a key element to any shot (I think most of us agree - at least I hope everyone does) but so many can serve fairly well (some extremely well) and land in ackward positions and seem slow to recover.

Most good players are going to return a high percentage of serves so you better be ready to hit the next shot. I don't think one should watch their ball after they hit/serve but rather watch the player(s). Some may take issue with this but I really think watching the ball go away is not good.

Well for most club players they are so caught up in their own mechanics to hit the shot they leave no room in their brain for "working points" and executing their matchups. Most club players want to be "one shot" wonders.

If players can visualize that the serve is only the start of the point, they would be able to use pace, spin and placement much more effectively. They would let go of thoughts that hang on to long with their swing mechanics and woould be much more ready to answer the opponents return. It is much different to play this way and it takes mental discipline and confidence.

The serve is one of those motions that the balance of your body is moving. It is balance in motion. The serve causes your balance to move upward and is rotating at the same time. The landing off balance or in balance is relative to the motion itself. It is awkward to land with both feet at the same time with a proper serve motion so the word balance is relative to the stroke. Or relative to the one foot landing first.

For groundstrokes it is a bit different because both feet are on the ground which makes your body's balance relative to that stroke.

If a person is landing too much off balance on the serve, a coach should be able to help a player find out what part of the serve motion is causing it. Is it the toss? Is it the stance? Is it the pinpoint stance they are using? Do they know how to bring up the foot if they decide to use the pinpoint stance to maintain good relative balance to their serve?

nyu
09-03-2004, 06:41 PM
Those low,hard, deep balls are unnavoidable sometimes, and I find the best way to deal with them is to really bend your knees and keep your body stable and low with your weight moving forward. Treat it like a return of serve, taking a short backswing but using a full follow through. Hitting the ball with any real power is very difficult unless you're 5.0+, and even then, the chances of theball going in are slim to none, so i suggest just looping the ball as deep as possible so that your opponent can't attack the next shot.

jeebeesus
09-03-2004, 09:02 PM
I dont know if u guys agree with this, but if u get balls at your feet during a game then u are not reading the range right.

Every player plays habitually within a range, given the tensions of the racket remaining unchanged.

If the player consciously tries to change the depth of his shots then he is going out of his comfort zone. Hence his exposure to errors increases.

Of course we are talking about club players and not pros.

vin
09-05-2004, 05:01 AM
Well for most club players they are so caught up in their own mechanics to hit the shot they leave no room in their brain for "working points" and executing their matchups. Most club players want to be "one shot" wonders.

Paralysis by analysis. Although I know better, I am guilty of this myself. If a shot stops working, I start thinking about it, and it's a downward spiral from there. Is it appropriate to ever think about mechanics during a match? If so, how do you get back on track to thinking about shot selection?
The serve is one of those motions that the balance of your body is moving. It is balance in motion. The serve causes your balance to move upward and is rotating at the same time.

Sometimes my serve is off because I simply overdo the body motion and end up leaning too far forward or use too much rotation. Either one causes me to be off balance. To maintain good balance, I try to keep my shoulders over my feet as much as possible to avoid leaning in too far and keep the left shoulder open after the toss to keep shoulder coiling to a reasonable limit. It is mostly when I start thinking about power that I have to monitor these things.
Do they know how to bring up the foot if they decide to use the pinpoint stance to maintain good relative balance to their serve?

What indicates not knowing how to do this, and what's the right way?

Bungalo Bill
09-07-2004, 08:13 AM
Those low,hard, deep balls are unnavoidable sometimes, and I find the best way to deal with them is to really bend your knees and keep your body stable and low with your weight moving forward. Treat it like a return of serve, taking a short backswing but using a full follow through. Hitting the ball with any real power is very difficult unless you're 5.0+, and even then, the chances of theball going in are slim to none, so i suggest just looping the ball as deep as possible so that your opponent can't attack the next shot.

I agree NYU, sometimes your opponent just hits a good shot. But if a player finds themselves hitting a lot fo balls like that, I would sound the alarm.

Bungalo Bill
09-07-2004, 08:14 AM
I dont know if u guys agree with this, but if u get balls at your feet during a game then u are not reading the range right.

Every player plays habitually within a range, given the tensions of the racket remaining unchanged.

If the player consciously tries to change the depth of his shots then he is going out of his comfort zone. Hence his exposure to errors increases.

Of course we are talking about club players and not pros.

I agree, my post further up supports your take on this topic. The player is not paying attention.

Bungalo Bill
09-07-2004, 08:18 AM
Well for most club players they are so caught up in their own mechanics to hit the shot they leave no room in their brain for "working points" and executing their matchups. Most club players want to be "one shot" wonders.

Paralysis by analysis. Although I know better, I am guilty of this myself. If a shot stops working, I start thinking about it, and it's a downward spiral from there. Is it appropriate to ever think about mechanics during a match? If so, how do you get back on track to thinking about shot selection?
The serve is one of those motions that the balance of your body is moving. It is balance in motion. The serve causes your balance to move upward and is rotating at the same time.

Sometimes my serve is off because I simply overdo the body motion and end up leaning too far forward or use too much rotation. Either one causes me to be off balance. To maintain good balance, I try to keep my shoulders over my feet as much as possible to avoid leaning in too far and keep the left shoulder open after the toss to keep shoulder coiling to a reasonable limit. It is mostly when I start thinking about power that I have to monitor these things.
Do they know how to bring up the foot if they decide to use the pinpoint stance to maintain good relative balance to their serve?

What indicates not knowing how to do this, and what's the right way?

Well you will think about a stroke if you flub it up. You should be able to correct what happened on the next stroke or two. I am referring to someone that gets overly concerned and forgets why they are there.

If a plyaer brings up his left foot too far, I would try and correct that. If a player wants a pinpoint stance but doesnt bring his foot up far enough I would correct that.