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View Full Version : Borg...1hbh or 2hbh?


Attila the tennis Bum
01-29-2007, 10:11 AM
I have seen Borgs bh described as a two hander and as a one hander. His backhand was really unique. Borg starts his stroke as a twohander but then just before he strikes the ball he lets go of one hand. So when he strikes the ball he is really only using one hand.

So is Borg a 1h or 2h bh?

The Gorilla
01-29-2007, 10:48 AM
I have seen fed doing that too occasionally, not on purpose though.

SFrazeur
01-29-2007, 10:55 AM
I would call it a two handed backhand because his body turns open, he just lets go. If his upper body stayed turned closed then I would call it a one handed.

I once worked with a a women that had the same take back but she stayed closed.

Attila the tennis Bum
01-30-2007, 06:09 AM
I would call it a two handed backhand because his body turns open, he just lets go. If his upper body stayed turned closed then I would call it a one handed.

I once worked with a a women that had the same take back but she stayed closed.


hmmmmm...well Borg invented the open stance. During his time both one handers and two handers all hit with the closed stance.

Borg actually played ping pong way befopre he ever played tennis. Thas where he got his open stance style from . Everyone tried to make him hit closed stance but he was stubborn...thus the modern game was invented.

But I digress...the point is during Borgs day everyone hit every shot with a closed stance.

Rabbit
01-30-2007, 06:20 AM
that's not necessarily true. I believe Orantes hit with an open stance as well as Corrado Barrazuti. Just a couple of examples off the top of my head.

SFrazeur
01-30-2007, 07:19 AM
hmmmmm...well Borg invented the open stance. During his time both one handers and two handers all hit with the closed stance.

Borg actually played ping pong way befopre he ever played tennis. Thas where he got his open stance style from . Everyone tried to make him hit closed stance but he was stubborn...thus the modern game was invented.

But I digress...the point is during Borgs day everyone hit every shot with a closed stance.

Are you disagreeing with what I stated then?

dima
01-30-2007, 07:55 AM
I think what should matter is during contact, if at contact, he holds the racquet with one hand it's a one hander.

morten
01-30-2007, 07:57 AM
he releases the hand after contact, so it`s a 2hander, Wilander also did this sometimes.

Attila the tennis Bum
01-30-2007, 11:54 AM
I agree ..its a two hander...check it out:

Bjorn Borg
Hockey player turned tennis player, Bjorn Borg fascinated the tennis public with not only a steely mental temperament, but a unique and effective topspin two-handed backhand. Following the advent of greater topspin by predecessors, Rod Laver and others, Borg took the concept of topspin to another level. Borg’s form really did resemble a hockey player ready to backhand a slap shot.

Notably, Borg used a Continental grip on his right hand, his dominant, and very nearly a Continental grip on his left hand. The unique feature of his backhand was his backswing. Borg would lift his left elbow often above his left shoulder bringing the hands high into his side. Unlike a traditional loop swing, this was almost a straight back swing pattern, giving Borg time to move to the ball with the racquet literally back and up prior to him even reaching a ball. His subsequent whip down and back up the ball was indeed almost a slapping motion.

oti
02-03-2007, 04:34 AM
I play tennis because of Bjorn, I copied his backhand since I was a kid (long time ago)! I also had pro's and coaches try to make me switch, however I also and still am stubborn. It isn't a 1hbh nor 2hbh, its a hybrid bhd. At times
2 hbh and at times 1hbd and at times start as 2hbd and end with 1hbh(most common...perfect for loopy topspin crosscourt). the trick ofcoarse is the finish, do you and can you follow through 1bhd, or 2bhd(this is why i'm only a 4.5er and not a 5.5er).

his game is still a thing of beauty that should be admired by all!
He is the GOAT, he would have beat Roger and Pete at Wimby with ease!

Attila the tennis Bum
02-03-2007, 07:33 AM
He is the GOAT, he would have beat Roger and Pete at Wimby with ease!


I respect Borg but the dude couldn't even beat Mcenroe much less Roger or Pete.

From what I read Borg quit because of Mcenroe. Thier record is 7-7 but by the end of Borgs career Mcenroe had Borgs number. The last wins were all Mcenroe and then Borg quit.

The Gorilla
02-03-2007, 08:39 AM
I respect Borg but the dude couldn't even beat Mcenroe much less Roger or Pete.

From what I read Borg quit because of Mcenroe. Thier record is 7-7 but by the end of Borgs career Mcenroe had Borgs number. The last wins were all Mcenroe and then Borg quit.

mcenroe 2 - 2 borg

borg gave up cos he was sick of tennis.

slice bh compliment
02-03-2007, 09:24 AM
Bjorn Borg used a two-handed bh with a release just after contact. Nick Bollettieri used to call it the two-handed release. It looked fairly right-hand dominant, but who knows?

Youzhny does something like it on some BHs, only he releases just before contact. Not sure why.

stormholloway
02-03-2007, 09:28 AM
I don't know about beating Roger or Pete with ease. Nobody beats them with ease when they're on.

Attila is just wrong. Borg beat McEnroe on his surface on the biggest stage in tennis. Since when is McEnroe chopped liver? He's one of the greatest, and Borg started losing to him when McEnroe was prime, and Borg was burning out in general.

To say that he couldn't beat McEnroe is ridiculous. They had an even record.

Also, Borg had a 2HBH. Sure he released his off hand but it is still a 2 hander mechanically. I've seen footage of him playing with a modern racquet in the 90s and he didn't release his off hand. The Donnay he played with was heavy and didn't require him to keep the off hand held through the stroke.

Attila the tennis Bum
02-03-2007, 09:48 AM
mcenroe 2 - 2 borg

borg gave up cos he was sick of tennis.


not true. He said he couldn't stand being number two.

The year Borg quit he lost both Wimbledon and the Us Open....take a wild guess who won both of them?: John Mcenroe .

Now its true they had an even record but thats only because Borg quit. Mcenroe was definitely the dominant player at the end of Borgs career.
by the way next to Pete & Roger...Mcenroe is chopped liver.

Back on the topic...I agree Borg had a two hander.

The Gorilla
02-03-2007, 09:52 AM
not true. He said he couldn't stand being number two.

The year Borg quit he lost both Wimbledon and the Us Open....take a wild guess who won both of them: John Mcenroe .

eh, no.

I've seen and read countless interviews in which he said that he gave up because he wasn't enjoying it anymore, that he felt nothing when he lost or won, and that it should ,'come from the heart, it should be joy'.

and seeing as he lost the us open annually that probaby wasn't as devestating a loss as you're making it out to be.He wasn't exactly hammered by mcenroe either was he?He wanted to spend the 60 million he'd earned playing tennis and advertising products while he was still young.

stormholloway
02-03-2007, 10:00 AM
Just because you have one year where you ONLY win one slam doesn't mean you're knocked out of contention. The man was burnt out.

McEnroe isn't chopped liver next to anyone. McEnroe burnt out too. His slams total doesn't reflect how truly great he was/is.

Attila the tennis Bum
02-03-2007, 10:27 AM
eh, no.

I've seen and read countless interviews in which he said that he gave up because he wasn't enjoying it anymore, that he felt nothing when he lost or won, and that it should ,'come from the heart, it should be joy'.

and seeing as he lost the us open annually that probaby wasn't as devestating a loss as you're making it out to be.He wasn't exactly hammered by mcenroe either was he?He wanted to spend the 60 million he'd earned playing tennis and advertising products while he was still young.

Never use the word countless unless you really cant count them. Suffice it to say that I read differently. Borg said that after he became #2 in the world behind John Mcenroe he lost interest in Tennis. It was just not the same.

We can argue about this ad nauseum. There is no right answer. I believe that Mcenroe had quite a bit to do with Borgs retiring. You may of course disagree and I respect that.

On the issue of Mcenroes greatness. I am a huge fan. But the fact is that unlike Borg Mcenroe tried to come back. Johnny also became burnt out and took a break for a year. When he came back the door was shut in his face. The sogn on the door read "power tennis". Johnny did not have a chance and never won another grandslam after 1984. Pete and Roger would destroy Mcenroe.

But this is for another debate. In fact it has brought up so much interest I think I have to post it.

stormholloway
02-05-2007, 01:17 PM
Judging from the champions tour, McEnroe can compete with much younger guys. Rios being one of them.

I'm actually astonished that McEnroe didn't win another slam. Wasn't he in the Wimbledon semis in '92? It seems like he would have won another one or two somewhere in there.

To go from having one of the greatest years of all time to never winning a slam is a huge leap. I disagree with Attila that the game had somehow changed in one year. Sure there was a trend toward power but it happened over gradual time, not just from '84-'85, though from a historical standpoint, I would mark those years as the turning point in the shape of the sport.

dirkgnuf
02-18-2007, 09:53 AM
Hey Attila, news flash. BORG did come back in 1992 and with woodies too, not graphite. Try and take a look at his match in Monte Carlo, and you'd be impressed at how well he hits against some guy using extreme western and an oversize racquet.

ipodtennispro
02-18-2007, 09:50 PM
I have seen Borgs bh described as a two hander and as a one hander. His backhand was really unique. Borg starts his stroke as a twohander but then just before he strikes the ball he lets go of one hand. So when he strikes the ball he is really only using one hand.

So is Borg a 1h or 2h bh?

He played hockey as a kid and his stroke resembles the same mechanics as a hockey player's motion. He did release the left hand after contact. But most people would agree that is had a two handed backhand.

www.ipodtennispros.com

Mick
02-18-2007, 10:08 PM
So is Borg a 1h or 2h bh?

Looks like a 2hbh to me.

http://i15.tinypic.com/2iau7u1.jpg

travlerajm
02-18-2007, 10:13 PM
Judging from the champions tour, McEnroe can compete with much younger guys. Rios being one of them.

I'm actually astonished that McEnroe didn't win another slam. Wasn't he in the Wimbledon semis in '92? It seems like he would have won another one or two somewhere in there.

To go from having one of the greatest years of all time to never winning a slam is a huge leap. I disagree with Attila that the game had somehow changed in one year. Sure there was a trend toward power but it happened over gradual time, not just from '84-'85, though from a historical standpoint, I would mark those years as the turning point in the shape of the sport.

Remember that Mac took a break and didn't touch a racquet for 6 months. When he came back from his layoff, he never quite regained the form that he had before. I fully believe that Mac would have won a bundle of majors in the late 80s if he hadn't taken that break. And he knows that - I think he regrets it, because he knows his name would be in the GOAT discussion with Sampras and Fed if he hadn't made the decision to take time off.

Mick
02-18-2007, 10:19 PM
Remember that Mac took a break and didn't touch a racquet for 6 months. When he came back from his layoff, he never quite regained the form that he had before. I fully believe that Mac would have won a bundle of majors in the late 80s if he hadn't taken that break. And he knows that - I think he regrets it, because he knows his name would be in the GOAT discussion with Sampras and Fed if he hadn't made the decision to take time off.

the break probably hurt McEnroe but to win those majors that you talked about, McEnroe would have to beat his nemesis Lendl because Lendl would make it to most of the finals. It's not that easy to beat Lendl in the late 80s. Early 80s maybe but not the late 80s.

http://i5.tinypic.com/2h5tpq1.jpg

Ted Ghost Shackley
03-10-2007, 01:04 AM
Borg used a right hand dominate 2hbh. The key to understanding his backhand is in his grips; he used a far eastern bh grip with his right hand and a continental fh with his left. His bh grip wanted to take the ball far in front and the continental fh of his left hand couldn't extend as far.

Both hands wanted different contact points and the dominate right hand won the argument, requiring the left to release soon after contact most of the time. Mats Wilander's backhand was between Borg's and most modern backhands. While Borg had a definite two-hander, I see it as closer to Kuerten's than the typical left-hand dominate (for right-handers) backhand of today.

AndrewD
03-10-2007, 03:47 AM
hmmmmm...well Borg invented the open stance. During his time both one handers and two handers all hit with the closed stance.


Incorrect. Hall of Famer, John Bromwich, Geoff Brown, the Australian player who was runner-up at Wimbledon and Viv McGrath, the first player of consequence to use the two-handed backhand alternated between an open and closed stance on their double-handed backhand. Brown’s backhand, in particular, was influenced by cricket – a game which, in text-book form, is played predominantly ‘side-on’/closed but still has a number of shots hit with an open stance. Other, less ‘correct’ and predominantly ‘open’ techniques can be equally as effective.

We can argue about this ad nauseum. There is no right answer.

Never say there is no right answer when there is, most certainly, at least one right answer. Just because you don't know which one it is, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Borg, Bergelin and even Mariana Simionescu have said, repeatedly, that Borg quit tennis because he was tired of the game. That is what you call a primary reason. Dropping down to number 2 in the world is only a secondary reason.

Peter Szucs
03-10-2007, 04:25 AM
I think his stroke is closer to a 1hander bc its the right arm dominating and leading the stroke. Like others said Youzhny also had a very similar had preparation but still he hits a clear one handed backhand.

Scud
03-10-2007, 04:04 PM
Im from Sweden and know a lot of Borgs decision to
retire. Let me first quote what someone said earlier
here":

"Never use the word countless unless you really cant count them. Suffice it to say that I read differently. Borg said that after he became #2 in the world behind John Mcenroe he lost interest in Tennis. It was just not the same."

This is not really true. What Borg said was that he did
not have the fire anymore, and since he because of that
knew that he consequently could not be no 1 (which was
the only thing he wanted) he simply did not want to
continue and "only" be a top 5 player. Borg felt that if
he wanted to be no 1 he needed to have the fire, and
he didnt have it. Thats why he left and it is in THAT
CONTEXT his words about being no 2 was not good
enough should be read.

CEvertFan
04-14-2007, 10:25 AM
It's a two handed backhand with a release of the left hand right after contact. An unconventional two-hander to be sure, but still a two-hander.

Attila the tennis Bum
04-15-2007, 11:29 AM
It's a two handed backhand with a release of the left hand right after contact. An unconventional two-hander to be sure, but still a two-hander.

did he let go right after contact or right before contact or right on contact??? Does anyone have the video?

CEvertFan
04-15-2007, 11:31 AM
did he let go right after contact or right before contact or right on contact??? Does anyone have the video?

He usually let go immediately after contact during the follow through.