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View Full Version : Bad feedback for Ten_nuts


ximian
01-31-2007, 05:41 PM
I meant to do this sooner, but it has slipped my mind until now.

I had an interesting exchange with Ten_nuts. I bought a Head Pro Tour 280 off him about 3 weeks ago, which he advertised as 8/10 condition with no cracks. He provided some pictures, but they were not very good and didn't show any close-up pics of the head. Nevertheless, I bought it and anticipated my new racket. It came, but to my dissapointment there were many scratches and paint nicks. It looked like he treated it very poorly. Ironically, the part of the racket that was in the best shape was the head-guard. His advertisement was not even close to 8/10, I would have rated it a 5 to 6 out of 10.

But the kicker was that I noticed a small crack in the graphite around one of the larger "paint chips." This I could not accept, because I now knew that I could not re-sell the racket with integrity. So I emailed him and he agreed to a return, but he said he would only refund me the cost of the racket minus the shipping and paypal expenses, which came to around $10. So not only did I have to re-ship the racket on my own dime, but I lost $10 in the process. I was not too happy, but at least the return process went smoothly.

All in all, this was not a pleasant experience, and I would not recommend you do business with him.

His real name is Chan Tran and his email is chantran1999@yahoo.com

snoflewis
01-31-2007, 06:36 PM
couple questions that i want to ask...
1. did you ask if there were any significant cracks or scratches?
2. why didnt you ask for close ups? you agreed to buy it after he even provided pics...you should have asked for more detailed pics
3. why should he pay for return shipping? you're the one that agreed to buy it after, once again, seeing pics

eunjam
02-01-2007, 07:42 PM
couple questions that i want to ask...
1. did you ask if there were any significant cracks or scratches?
2. why didnt you ask for close ups? you agreed to buy it after he even provided pics...you should have asked for more detailed pics
3. why should he pay for return shipping? you're the one that agreed to buy it after, once again, seeing pics

i disagree.

any racket that has a significant crack is not an 8 period.

he should have been forthcoming about that fact......and then 2 and 3 wouldn't matter.

buyer gave seller benefit of the doubt.

buyer got burned for a transaction that never would have happened.

would you buy a racket that's cracked if you're looking for an 8+/10 racket?

Ten_nuts
02-01-2007, 09:34 PM
Hi, Justin (or Ximian). Thanks for your feedback. First of all, that wasn't a crack (i did check many times when i got the racquet back). i could refuse to refund your money because you received my racquet and played with it. My Head PT280 could be worst rating 7/10, but since you wanted to return you can say 5/10, right? I refunded to get my racquet back because i was playing with, and the Luxilon string costed me 30 bucks. Also i refunded because buyer wasn't happy, tell me will anyone in here sells you racquet, let you play and then let you return? i thought i was nice. It costed me 4.70 to ship to you and P*yp$l charged me 3.20 fee; therefore when i refunded the money i subtract 7.90, wasn't it reasonable? So to all of you in here, if you sell anything to this guy, XIMIAN or JUSTIN MART, you should be careful because this guy buys your racquet, plays with it, and returns it with his own rating and ...... finally he will give you bad feedback. Thank you all for reading this and hope you guys won't experience like me. Thanks again.

znoopie
02-01-2007, 10:04 PM
I have no opinion on this issue. However I think if you go to the Paypal's payment detail page, you will see a link that lets you refund the money (full or partial) to the buyer within 60 days. The Paypal fee will be refunded as well, so no money loss here.

ximian
02-01-2007, 11:18 PM
Snowflewis:
1.) Yes, of course I asked if there were significant scratches or cracks. He said no.
2.) I was in a bit of a hurry and was looking for this frame fast. I have had nothing but 100% positive trading results before (you can check my feedback here if you like, I think I've got a few. But there are far more people I have traded with and no feedback has been swapped). So I guess I was a bit too trustful and got burned this time around. Buyer beware, right? So I guess I am a bit at fault for this, because I didn't take all the necessary precautions.
3.) He should pay for return shipping because his decietfulness is what got me in this position in the first place. He lied, and now I pay for it? Doesn't seem right.

I can provide pictures of the crack if anyone here is concerned. I took a few close ups when he requested pictures of the crack. It is a small crack, so if anyone does a cursury overlook or doesn't want to believe it is a crack might persuade himself to that position. But I looked at it long and hard and determined that if I were to sell the racket, I couldn't let a crack like that, as small as it is, slide. And that's when I knew the racket had to go back. Does anyone know how to post pictures on here? And yes, I played with the frame for a whole 5 minuets. Short cort Tennis. There is no harm done there.

Anyway, I have some good feedback here on the boards, with nothing but 100% positive trading results so far. I have nothing to hide, and I'm trying to be as forthcoming as possible. In my mind, regardless of the details of the transaction (i.e., buying after seeing some non-close up pics, etc), if the seller advertises a racket as 8/10, I am expecting a racket that is very good quality and condition. This racket was FAR from that. With the addition of a crack in the graphite, the trasaction becomes borderline fraud, and the buyer should be entitled to all his money back.

I will credit Chan Tran for at least accepting a return (on his terms, after his decietfulness) but after that, his integrity is at question by posting a frame in that condition as 7/10, let alone 8/10. Once again, I can give you some pics of the frame in question, I just don't know how.

Tennis Man
02-02-2007, 05:49 AM
ximian, I'd love to see the pictures of this crack. Could you pls post it here so we are all clear. Thanks.

SFrazeur
02-02-2007, 05:49 AM
I would be interested in seeing the pictures of the crack in question. You can upload a picture using tinypic.com.

Paste picture url in between code

eunjam
02-02-2007, 07:35 AM
consensus says.....upload the pics so we can all see.

you brought up the issue here.

let's all see it.

ximian
02-02-2007, 09:45 AM
http://i18.tinypic.com/4by15zo.jpg
http://i18.tinypic.com/44gy5pk.jpg

As you can see, at first glance it looks like a simple paint chip. But this paint chip has a noticeable dent
in the graphite, with a small crack on the left, and possibly also on the right. Likely from throwing the
racket onto the court or something of that nature.

This racket is NOT in the condition that he described. And this crack is simply inexcusable, no matter how
small it is.

Sagittar
02-02-2007, 09:54 AM
you mean the crack on the lower left of the chip ? is this it ?

eunjam
02-02-2007, 10:00 AM
that's not an 8/10.

hands down.

but i personally wouldn't have played with it and then sent it back.

as soon as i saw that after the seller claimed an 8, i would get in touch with the seller and send it back like it was.

either way, this deal was a disaster.

python
02-02-2007, 11:06 AM
Without the crack, I would have rated it a 5/10. With the crack, it's essentially useless.

TonyB
02-02-2007, 11:22 AM
I guess I can't determine if it's a crack, exactly, but I'm not sure it matters much. It ain't an 8 frame. If that type of damage is representative of the condition of the rest of the frame, I'd say it's a 6, 7 tops.

Either way, I can see some justification for confusion on both of your parts. I'd say that if you got away with a loss of only a few dollars, that's OK. I don't think anything was INTENTIONALLY misrepresented in order to take advantage of you. After all, he granted a refund (minus some shipping costs, which is a questionable action on his part) and doesn't look like he's going to hold any grudges.

Next time: get pictures. Get CLOSEUP pictures. Don't buy anything that you're not 100% sure about. I always go by the adage "let the buyer beware."

I'd say the fault is at least 50/50 on this one.

python
02-02-2007, 11:27 AM
Next time: get pictures. Get CLOSEUP pictures. Don't buy anything that you're not 100% sure about. I always go by the adage "let the buyer beware."

I'd say the fault is at least 50/50 on this one.

I don't agree. These boards operate a great deal on trust. Tennis after all is supposed to be a gentleman's sport. Sellers should always err on the conservative side when writing their ads. In this case, I'd say the buyer got taken for a bit of a ride and he's rightfully upset.

eunjam
02-02-2007, 01:20 PM
Tennis after all is supposed to be a gentleman's sport.

true.....but you can take a kid off the street and put him in a nice collared tennis shirt, nice clothes, nice shoes, and give him a membership to a nice club.

but you CAN'T take the street out of a kid.

dallasstarsfan
02-02-2007, 01:56 PM
I agree that the racquet is not a 8/10 standard that I have come to expect from my racquet purchases from sellers on this board. That is more like an "8/10" from a fleabay seller (lots of generous graders on that site).

vkartikv
02-02-2007, 02:17 PM
Does the seller think/know there was a crack on the frame BEFORE it was sent to the buyer?

ximian
02-02-2007, 06:22 PM
I don't agree. These boards operate a great deal on trust. Tennis after all is supposed to be a gentleman's sport. Sellers should always err on the conservative side when writing their ads. In this case, I'd say the buyer got taken for a bit of a ride and he's rightfully upset.


Ten_nuts still doesn't think it is a crack, and he still rates that frame at "at worst a 7/10." See his post above. This is the lack of integrity I'm talking about. And yeah, I'm glad I got away with only $10 loss because I was afraid he was going to stiff me. But all in all, I would not deal with Ten_nuts again. All my previous transactions were with honest and forthcoming sellers, and that is how these boards operate. On a basis of trust. So I will still do business here on the boards, I've had nothing but positive experiences besides this one. I guess this is just a warning to you all about Chan Tran and his "lenient" frame grading.

ximian
02-02-2007, 06:24 PM
Does the seller think/know there was a crack on the frame BEFORE it was sent to the buyer?

He says he looked over it many times before sending the racket out. And if you see his post above his still doesn't claim to see it. That is absurd. I don't see how any honest seller can sell a racket with that sort of a dent/crack without at LEAST mentioning it. You would have to be blind, frankly.

Bottle Rocket
02-02-2007, 06:33 PM
I just recently started doing some trading around here. Every racket that I have gotten has been in much better shape than described. 8/10 has apparently meant the frame is damn near perfect. I think most people make sure the buyer finds the racket to be in better condition thatn described, at least the few I have bought from. Because of this, I have tried to do the same.

I think we need to define a better rating system. Something we all understand, so close-up pictures of every scrape isn't need.

A 1-10 scale doesn't totally make sense. If 0 is completely destroyed and 10 is perfect, the frame you got is probably a 7/10. It seems that is what the seller truly thought. I think you expected different between of previous people under rating.

I think we need to come up with some guidelines for a rating system and make it a sticky in the forum. I would be more than willing to try and write something up if you guys think it would help. TW staff?

On the other hand, I do side with the buyer. All of your money, including shipping and PayPal fee's should be been refunded, no questions asked. That is the right thing to do, in my opinion.

Steve Huff
02-02-2007, 06:56 PM
I have to admit, it wasn't what he rated it, but give him some credit. he did give you your money back. If he was out to cheat you, he wouldn't have done that. With a chip like that though, that's a racket better left to donation.

Ten_nuts
02-02-2007, 09:28 PM
Ok, i just brought the racquet to Sport Charlet this afternoon where i strung my racquet, and the technician there checked the racquet for me. He just looked at the mark and knew right away it's not a crack. To make sure of that, he did some simple tests about the torsion to see the mark and it's fine. He rated the racquet is a solid 7/10. Now you guys can see the pictures and who says it's a crack? Thanks Justin by the way for posting the pictures or i would find a way to do it myself. ANyway, I am alright with that because i've learnt something when selling to somebody. It's a good experience for me and for all of you guys too. Peace out.

ximian
02-02-2007, 09:33 PM
I think the pictures speak for themselves. All of us here have enough of a brain to know that even in the pictures I posted, the racket is NOT an 8/10, and a highly suspect 7/10. If I were selling it, it I would rate it a 5 - 6 out of 10.

But you can humor me if you'd like. What sort of tests did he do about the "torsion" to see that it's not a crack? I doubt you can say, because A) I'm positive it is a crack and B) You just might be making the whole thing up. I know what shape that racket was in, and it's not a 8/10, nor a 7/10. I don't care what someone at "Sport Charlet" says.

SFrazeur
02-03-2007, 02:33 PM
I personally do not see a crack, but I could be just missing it. Like everyone has said, it's not an 8/10.

This is why I do not give a number rating to a racquet I sell/trade, I go through the hassle of taking so many pictures. I'd rather have that hassle than the hassle that has gone on between the two of them.

I also agree that there needs to be a system around here, I would have suggested it but I get hassled by a certain poster when ever I attempt to organize things.

ximian
02-03-2007, 11:06 PM
I would be all for a well defined grading scale. Seems it would dispell some confusion and wrong expectations.

tennisdarren
02-04-2007, 06:14 AM
Q: How do I rate my gear?
A: It isn't easy to give a number (out of 10) for gear, because each item undergoes wear and tear differently from person to person, player to player. A loose guideline will be posted, if you use this, please mention it. Guidelines are subjective, so if we put effort to use a standard, please mention it! For instance (By the TW guidelines, I would rate this a 8/10!)
The below ratings are for racquets, you can use these guidelines loosely to translate to other gear.

These are loose guidelines, indicate any discrepancies such as play time (in hours, preferrably), string life, paint chips, nature of chips, bumper guard condition, etc)

1. Broken racquet
2. Used, unplayable, racquet.
3. Used, very poor condition. Racquet is structually un-sound, restring at your own risk.
4. Used, poor condition. Racquet shows abundant wear, often through to the graphite, Paint chips, cracks, and wear is very noticeable. Paint is worn through to the graphite in multiple areas, Bumper guard is worn through to the graphite in multiple areas, grommets are cracked, or worn through and need replacement.
5. Used, OK condition. Racquet is playable, but there is noticeable, and abundant wear of bumper guard, paint, grip, strings, grommets. Frame may show graphite wear, but is still in playable condition.
6. Used, fair condition. Racquet is structurally sound, no cracks. Paint may be chipped or blemished down to the graphite, but no graphite wear is evident. Bumper guard is in decent condition, but spots show wear to a thin layer, or even slightly through to the actual frame. Grip shows noticeable wear, and may need replacement. Grommets show significant wear, but do not need replacement.
7. Used, good condition. Paint chips and scratches are minor, but noticeable. Grip shows some wear. Strings are used (obviously if they're not, make a note). Grommets show wear, and/or show multiple string jobs (i.e. they are getting squished, and or are enlarged). Bumper guard shows medium wear.
8. Used, Very Good condition. Paint chips/scratches are small, but minor. No graphite has been exposed. Bumper guard in very good to excellent condition (scuffing OK, but please make a note). Scuffing on the frame, note whether or not it is noticeable, and/or into the paint. Grip worn slightly. Grommets in good condition, perhaps enlarged/smooshed, but no cracking/damage.
9. Opened/Used, Excellent condition. Used, but otherwise in near perfect condition. This is for an item that has been opened, plastic taken off the handle, used once or twice, etc. Item has seen very, very little wear and tear. Any scratches are very minute, and should be noted. Grip is in excellent condition, perhaps covered by an overgrip it's entire life. Paint blemishes are cosmetic only. No paint chips, No cracks, scrapes are very, very small (1-2 mm) and superficial only. Bumper guard in very good, to excellent condition. Grommets are in excellent condition, little to no smooshing of tie off holes, little to no enlarging at tie off holes.
10. Brand new, no use, NIB (New in Box). TW does not allow the sale of any new products with the exception of out of production grommets. Barely used racquets will be evaluated on a post-to-post basis to determine if they compete with the sale of new products by TW. We reserve the right to refuse any ad.

Steve Huff
02-05-2007, 06:28 AM
Personally, I wouldn't give ANY rating to an unplayable racket. I would just list it as "broken". A playable racket where the graphite has worn through would probably be a 1 or 2. Like SFrazeur, I rarely give a number rating. It just doesn't tell the story.

tennisphotog
02-05-2007, 08:56 AM
I am pleased to see that 95% of us are in agreement on the condition of the racquet, it is not a 8/10 or close. That is why 95% of the time I am delighted with my purchases on this board. Members here tend to deal with honor and give the buyer a fine product. This is a productive thread because it helps keep the grading scale intact. The seller misrepresented his racquet (perhaps not maliciously), but took it back and refunded the money (or most). The important think is that we all jumped on this. The system works (at least 95% of the time) and that is a credit to all who monitor this board.

greg280
02-05-2007, 04:43 PM
if that were my frame, i would have posted those pics first, then said, make offer.

ximian
02-26-2009, 11:44 AM
I'm going to bump this thread. It was a long time ago, but searching through the feedback for Ten_Nuts, it seems others have had the same problems. Very disappointing.

So hopefully this thread will serve as a warning to everyone who is thinking of dealing with Ten_Nuts.

**EDIT** I was completely misguided. Somehow I thought a sour deal with someone else involved Ten_nuts and it didn't. My apologies.

Ten_nuts
02-26-2009, 12:58 PM
Hey, ever since i've started to deal in this Forum, i made only 1 mistake for selling you and that was it. What d' hec do you mean others have had the same problems? Who? Show me? After that mistake, i've still had many good transactions in here.

ximian
02-26-2009, 01:25 PM
bad link EDIT: <-- I was wrong - this link has nothing to do with Ten_nuts.

To be fair, it seems the issue was resolved and both parties were happy at the end of the day. I am simply pointing out that this is another instance of questionable racket-grading practices. I would suggest that anyone who wants to deal with Ten_Nuts makes sure to get complete and exhaustive close-up pics of the racket in question.

Hopefully the large amounts of positive feedback for Ten_Nuts can outweigh a few bad transactions, but I still say be careful.

Thaychua
02-26-2009, 02:13 PM
I'm going to bump this thread. It was a long time ago, but searching through the feedback for Ten_Nuts, it seems others have had the same problems. Very disappointing.

So hopefully this thread will serve as a warning to everyone who is thinking of dealing with Ten_Nuts.

Exactly what are you trying to do here? You came out of the deal loosing 10 dollars and this was put to rest a long time ago. Why are you trying to plague the man when everything is already said and done?

Other have problems? are you searching for the right guy? i believe it's Ten_Nuts not Trev343.

Thaychua
02-26-2009, 02:15 PM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=204560&highlight=Ten_Nuts

To be fair, it seems the issue was resolved and both parties were happy at the end of the day. I am simply pointing out that this is another instance of questionable racket-grading practices. I would suggest that anyone who wants to deal with Ten_Nuts makes sure to get complete and exhaustive close-up pics of the racket in question.

Hopefully the large amounts of positive feedback for Ten_Nuts can outweigh a few bad transactions, but I still say be careful.

That link wasn't even related to Ten_Nuts. LOL. Not sure what are you trying to do here..

For the record, he didn't have a few bad transactions, i think he only had one--which was with you..

Ten_nuts
02-26-2009, 02:35 PM
Thanks Thaychua, and that's what i am trying to tell him. Yeah, i don't know why, but he made me spent sometimes reading the whole thing for ...nothing. What is it that you want?

FedererForehand
02-26-2009, 03:11 PM
I'm going to bump this thread. It was a long time ago, but searching through the feedback for Ten_Nuts, it seems others have had the same problems. Very disappointing.

So hopefully this thread will serve as a warning to everyone who is thinking of dealing with Ten_Nuts.

Unless you have had a bad transaction with him or have been cheated by him you really need to keep your mouth shut. Nobody needed you to "point out" or warm people about him, people are able to do that themselves. If you don't trust him then don't deal with him but don't act like your doing a favor to the rest of us because you want to bash someone you are not involved with.

ximian
02-26-2009, 03:22 PM
Whoops! The link I provided does not concern Ten_nuts. My apologies - I don't know how that escaped my attention. :oops:

I screwed this one up. I say we just let the thread die again.