Any tips to defeating this pusher?

[DX_Psycho]

My main weapon is my serve. It's one of the fastest on the team. I usually get about 80% first serves in on a good day. When this happens, i'm pretty much guaranteed my service games. I've been building up my game and i've gotten more confident in it over the past few weeks.

However, i had an off day yesterday and I was hitting about 10% 1st serves and 20% second serves (resulting in an embarassing 0-6 loss to a pusher)

So today i got my serve back and I won two more matches 6-0, 6-1.

I need to challenge this pusher again but If i lose I can no longer challenge him.

He is a very predictable player. 80% of his shots go to the middle and he hits either high top spin lobs to the baseline, bad slow drop shots that sit up, or a shot with a lot of top spin but very little pace to the service line.

I rallied with him during the game and he gives me no angles and no pace to work with. I'm an all-court player but I can't volley against this guy cause he just top spin lobs me (even though they're so high I can get to them). This obviously takes a toll on my energy if I have to volley and run back to the baseline every time.

The only idea I have is to hit outright winners, because if i go for an angle from the middle he just superlobs it back to the middle of the court, giving him time to recover to the middle again.

Also, he uses a western grip so i tried to slice him on both sides but he just tries to drop back every slice. Also, i can't drop him and pull him to net that easily cause his balls are so high up.

[krprunitennis2]

Maybe it's all in you. Maybe you have to work on your drop shots before thinking of a strategy to obtain more options since you'd have the drop shot in your shot selection. You said his shots don't have much pace so it should be easy to hit his shots on the rise and keep him moving around. He's bound to get tired like what he does to you from the net and back.

If I were you, I'd just try to practice the drop shot with someone, or keep making the other person run (since he won't make you run ["He is a very predictable player. 80% of his shots go to the middle and he hits either high top spin lobs to the baseline, bad slow drop shots that sit up, or a shot with a lot of top spin but very little pace to the service line"]).

How hard do you hit your normal shots?

[aznspongehead]

Could you possibily stay further back from the baseline and wait for his shots to come down before you drop shot him? You said his drop shots are no threat, so that might be an option.

[DX_Psycho]

my normal shots are medium pace. enough to move people around.

i could stay behind the baseline but his ball will kick up too high.

[adlis]

However, i had an off day yesterday and I was hitting about 10% 1st serves

WHAT LEVEL are you? because 10% first serve is how shall i put it..bad

[Budgerigar]

i think your overheads achilles heal. i know what to do when i play you.

[DX_Psycho]

ok well maybe i was exaggerating. it was more like 40% first serves 40% second serves. which is still horrible by any standard.

and you're right Budgerigar, my overhead is not as strong as it should be. I used to hit great overheads but top spin lobs that are high in the air are really hard to time for me.

and I am not rated but I would be about a 3.0

[maverick66]

do anything to make him uncomfartblle. if he likes to stay back and dropshot lob force him forward. or the simple hit one to one side and one to the other is always nice. test his fitness. at a 3.0 level you might not be good enough to move him yet but at least try. also get in better shape. pushers rely on you getting tired or frustrated. so like you said he cant hurt you so dont rush it and also make fitness an issue for him by making him move alot more than you.

[krprunitennis2]

Are you sure this guy is a "pusher?" If he's hitting with loads of spin, he wouldn't be dinking, which I think only pushers and beginners do. Do you mean a counterpuncher?

Or maybe this guy is just really consistent.

[adlis]

ask maverick66 he is the a level 6.0 pusher.

[DX_Psycho]

well if i'm not mistaken, a counterpuncher uses angles and pace against the other player.

this guy does neither. he just hits it high and puts as much spin as possible to keep it safe.

[krprunitennis2]

well if i'm not mistaken, a counterpuncher uses angles and pace against the other player.

this guy does neither. he just hits it high and puts as much spin as possible to keep it safe.

=\ Good luck.... I've got nothing else.

[CaptainInsano]

as maverick66 said, I'd just bring him to the net.

Since he's returning your slices by drop shots, you can return them as drop shots as well. Or since you know he'll return those slices as drop shots, rush the net everynow and then. He'll keep guessing.

If he's using a western grip and just hits top sping shots form the baseline, chances are he won't be comfortable at the net. You could wait for that bad slow drop shot of his and bring him to the net.

Going for winners is very risky and is probably what he wants you to do. You'll make more mistakes than points.

[LuckyR]

My main weapon is my serve. It's one of the fastest on the team. I usually get about 80% first serves in on a good day. When this happens, i'm pretty much guaranteed my service games. I've been building up my game and i've gotten more confident in it over the past few weeks.

However, i had an off day yesterday and I was hitting about 10% 1st serves and 20% second serves (resulting in an embarassing 0-6 loss to a pusher)

So today i got my serve back and I won two more matches 6-0, 6-1.

I need to challenge this pusher again but If i lose I can no longer challenge him.

He is a very predictable player. 80% of his shots go to the middle and he hits either high top spin lobs to the baseline, bad slow drop shots that sit up, or a shot with a lot of top spin but very little pace to the service line.

I rallied with him during the game and he gives me no angles and no pace to work with. I'm an all-court player but I can't volley against this guy cause he just top spin lobs me (even though they're so high I can get to them). This obviously takes a toll on my energy if I have to volley and run back to the baseline every time.

The only idea I have is to hit outright winners, because if i go for an angle from the middle he just superlobs it back to the middle of the court, giving him time to recover to the middle again.

Also, he uses a western grip so i tried to slice him on both sides but he just tries to drop back every slice. Also, i can't drop him and pull him to net that easily cause his balls are so high up.


Funny, our #1 singles player played a guy just like this and got smoked (true he was having an off day and true we were playing an away match, but still!).

Bringing him to net with dropshots is a reasonable idea on occasion but is not an overall game plan.

Hitting outright winners is a recipe for disaster unless you are much, much better than him (which you may be, but you did lose to the guy 0-6).

Clearly this guy is putting his energy into being fit and quick and mentally tough, not into hitting winners. So you need to get into the mindset of patience. Relax, he will not beat you. Only you can do that!

You need to get him into a "figure eight". This should be pretty easy since you mention he likes to hit the high percentage shot up the middle (like they all do).

First, return his crosscourt shots sharply CC. He will think you are going for a winner. Wrong. He will send up a floater up the middle, probably somewhat short. Step into the court and hit a FH to BH and vice versa shot (meaning stepping away from the ball so that shots coming from his FH up the middle are hit with your BH) crosscourt the other direction. Repeat to infinity. Again he will think this is your "putaway" or best shot, he thinks he's got you hitting low percentage putaways which eventually you will miss. Instead you are hitting high percentage crosscourts away from his previous court position each time.

He will be hitting up the middle, to avoid mistakes and you will be hitting high percentage angles, which he has to run for.

This will be a battle royale. It will take a number of 20 or 30 or 50 shot points for him to lose his stamina. But he will, and when he does, you've got him.

[dave333]

You definintely will want to incorporate or short slice or drop shot or a low slice. Low, faster shots will force him to scoop up more, resulting in nice floaty shots that you can use to try to hit in open court or to his weaker side and advance to net.

[ATXtennisaddict]

10% first serves, 20% second serves when you lost?

How about developing some consistency in your serving? Less power and more spin on first serves so more will go in, and develop a solid 90-95% second serve.

As for hitting outright winners, pushers are relying on you to make the first mistake. And they also like to hug the baseline.

Hit consistent shots and try to bring him in.

[ohplease]

Basically, this guy is throwing a gauntlet down. He doesn't believe that he needs to do anything more to beat you than cruise along with totally neutral shots down the middle. He's challenging you to come up with something that will take him out of his comfort zone.

Like all amateur players - this guy isn't Federer. There's always something you can do to drag someone out of their comfort zone. You just need to figure it out. Some combination of pace/spin/placement should set up balls that are progressively more in your offensive strike zone. You MUST prove to him you can manage the point in such a way, and with some luck he'll start handing you more errors trying to avoid being put in hopeless situations.

Bagels against people who aren't even opening up their offensive games mean you're not even keeping the ball in the court. Do that first. At the very least, make him earn his points.

You need to be looking at very, very good players (maybe a step or two below open level) before you need to worry about lights-out offensive weapons. For everyone below that point, there are acres and acres of room and time to hang out and leverage offensive positions, reset a point's rhythm, slow things down, speed things up - whatever - there's tons of opportunities to either draw balls upon which you can be lights out or to draw errors. You need to figure out how to do that outside of days where everything is clicking for you.

At the very least, stay neutral with this guy. Make him prove that he can beat you, instead of you just beating yourself.

[superbooga]

At 3.0, there is pretty one thing you can do: Show that you are a better pusher than he is. You don't have the weapons or ability to blow him off the court. He's hurting you by mixing up topspin shots with dinky shots. Do the same to him.

[spot]

Keep hitting balls deep to his weaker side. If you are having trouble with his topspin then attack his backhand. Keep working that side repeatedly until he starts cheating toward that side then go to the other side. Since he isn't trying to attack any shots then you can keep moving him around like this. If he hits a short ball then hit an approach and follow it up to the net. As you said worst case scenario to you is that he lobs you and you have to retreat. But take advantage of the fact that he isn't ever putting you on the defensive by just playing high percentage tennis and making him run to hit balls on his weaker side.

And if he drops back every slice- whats the problem with using a slice as an approach shot and trying to make him do somethign else with those balls?

[0DegreesKelvin]

Hey Viet! Alright guys, he actually does have one of the best serves on our team. He annilated me with just his serves (then again I suck). The day he played him was his off day, but that guy he lost to only:

a.) topspin lobs
b.) drop shots
c.) lobs
d.) when you go up to poach, around the service area, he lobs.

In reality, all he ever does is lob. But by watching another guy on our team play him (BorHor), I noticed that as long as you continously get the ball over the net, he'll get impatient, then irritated, then mess up. He also tries to volley when you use his strategy against him, but he'll usually mess himself up by trying to slide after every shot. I haven't played him yet, so you shouldn't really listen to this post, but hopefully when I do play him, I will beat his topspin lobs with more lobs!

A lot of people actually have lost to him because of his style of playing, and people that do beat him are usually pushers themselves, so, hopefully, I don't get hummilated either.

[DX_Psycho]

haha, i got my game back so i'll be ready to beat him next time around.

[sharpy]

looks like your team sucks. 40% second serves? lose 6-0 to a pusher? Even worse, you're the best server on the team? what do the other guys serve at like 5% first serves?

[hector]

First of all you are not going to win any matches with 10% first serve and 20% second serve. If those are truly your percentages you double fault away pretty much every game you serve.

So, what you have to do is work on your second serve. There is no quick fix. Now if your life depended on it I would tell you to serve underhand but that is just a stop gap measure and you are better off in the long run facing the problem directly.

Also, if I understood correctly, when your serve is on you beat the guy 6-1 6-1 but when it is off you loose 6-1 6-1.

Let’s look at your return games in both cases.

In one case you are breaking him every time he serves and in the other he is holding every time. Now why should that be a function of how you are serving that day?

It looks like when your serve is on he tanks and when it is off you tank. So there is also the psychological element of how your serve affects the rest of your game and your opponents.

When I have problems serving I work extra hard on the rest on my game and really try to dig in. Nothing fancy hit good consistent deep shots play very high percentage tennis, very few winners very few errors. Make your opponent earn everything. Slow it down. This tells your opponent it is going to be a long day.

Maybe you will still loose; but mentally you will be in a better frame of mind and your opponent now has to worry about what if you get your serve back during the match.

[AJK1]

The best advice i can give anyone is get a coach who can teach you the game.

[mashima12o]

as maverick66 said, I'd just bring him to the net.

Since he's returning your slices by drop shots, you can return them as drop shots as well. Or since you know he'll return those slices as drop shots, rush the net everynow and then. He'll keep guessing.

If he's using a western grip and just hits top sping shots form the baseline, chances are he won't be comfortable at the net. You could wait for that bad slow drop shot of his and bring him to the net.

Going for winners is very risky and is probably what he wants you to do. You'll make more mistakes than points.

>_> I lost to him 0-6 too... He doesnt use western...its extreme western. All he did was block the ball back. Its as if its you're playing a wall. I tried winners and he just...>_> ugh.

[drakulie]

happy Birthday Dx Psycho

[FH2FH]

Don't try to out hit the guy. You will lose 9/10 times because you'll make too many errors. Hit side to side (not the lines), deep, and try some different spins. A guy I play like this also relies on my pace. Try taking pace off your shots with little dinks inside the service line. Unless he is Nadal he will have problems scooping up short, low balls with that grip. Move him in if his lobs give you so many problems. Your #1 problem is lack of patience by the way.

Also, three of you seem to have watched this guy play and NONE of you have mentioned his backhand. At 3.0, he isn't likely to have one or it is at least much weaker than his FH. Do what you have to to make him hit on that wing. Very few players hit those loopy lobs off both sides. And LEARN to hit an OVERHEAD!! It will pay off to do this now... Good luck!!

[Alafter]

mmmmm work the angles with just your moderate pace. You said you can do it, so do it. in fact, hit softer, but sharper angles. force him to run. yeah i think he will win a couple of games, but wear him out for it.

[mashima12o]

Don't try to out hit the guy. You will lose 9/10 times because you'll make too many errors. Hit side to side (not the lines), deep, and try some different spins. A guy I play like this also relies on my pace. Try taking pace off your shots with little dinks inside the service line. Unless he is Nadal he will have problems scooping up short, low balls with that grip. Move him in if his lobs give you so many problems. Your #1 problem is lack of patience by the way.

Also, three of you seem to have watched this guy play and NONE of you have mentioned his backhand. At 3.0, he isn't likely to have one or it is at least much weaker than his FH. Do what you have to to make him hit on that wing. Very few players hit those loopy lobs off both sides. And LEARN to hit an OVERHEAD!! It will pay off to do this now... Good luck!!


I watched him play my cousin today...most of his points are by topspin lob and he waits till you hit a short return then he tries to drop.


Oh and his backhand...its one of those short mini topspin that doesn't go pass the service line.

[DX_Psycho]

thanks drakulie

and i do have a coach.

[Mick]

at least you have strong serves when your game is on. It's tough to beat those pushers without the strong serves because they could get everything back and most of them are very fit.

[MTChong]

My main weapon is my serve. It's one of the fastest on the team. I usually get about 80% first serves in on a good day. When this happens, i'm pretty much guaranteed my service games. I've been building up my game and i've gotten more confident in it over the past few weeks.

However, i had an off day yesterday and I was hitting about 10% 1st serves and 20% second serves (resulting in an embarassing 0-6 loss to a pusher)

So today i got my serve back and I won two more matches 6-0, 6-1.

I need to challenge this pusher again but If i lose I can no longer challenge him.

He is a very predictable player. 80% of his shots go to the middle and he hits either high top spin lobs to the baseline, bad slow drop shots that sit up, or a shot with a lot of top spin but very little pace to the service line.

I rallied with him during the game and he gives me no angles and no pace to work with. I'm an all-court player but I can't volley against this guy cause he just top spin lobs me (even though they're so high I can get to them). This obviously takes a toll on my energy if I have to volley and run back to the baseline every time.

The only idea I have is to hit outright winners, because if i go for an angle from the middle he just superlobs it back to the middle of the court, giving him time to recover to the middle again.

Also, he uses a western grip so i tried to slice him on both sides but he just tries to drop back every slice. Also, i can't drop him and pull him to net that easily cause his balls are so high up.


I just skimmed your post and aside from raising your serve percentage (which you well know) and not going for winners all the time (which you should well know)...

Hit slices then follow up to the net. If he tries a slice lob, there's a lower chance of it going in. Also, don't go to close to the net, then he'll be forced to hit a really good passing shot, a very risky slice lob, or hit a topspin with a western off a low ball.

[Hot Sauce]

20% second serves is the part that worries me. You're giving up free points, you can't be doing that.

[DX_Psycho]

yea. well most of you are talking about the 20% serves but that was an exaggeration. it was more like 40%

though on 6 out of 7 days my serve percentage is around 80%, so i'm not really worried about that. it's just, i would like a surefire way to beat him in rallies instead of just relying on service winners and aces.

[The Gorilla]

if noone's advice works then at your level you might want to think about pushing yourself.

[mdhubert]

The best adjustment I've made against pushers was to take the ball early, on the rise. It's a way to impose your rythm and to not get trapped in his slow play, which is the major risk against these guys. Play with spin to keep the ball in, but try to swing early, watch the ball carefully, move those legs and you'll be fine. He won't feel comfortable, he doesn't like to rush. If he starts really moonballing, play deeper and go to the net, use swinging volleys. Then get a decent first serve percentage, that's obvious. Good luck.

[FH2FH]

I watched him play my cousin today...most of his points are by topspin lob and he waits till you hit a short return then he tries to drop.

Oh and his backhand...its one of those short mini topspin that doesn't go pass the service line.

Hit the ball short, preferably not in the center of the court, and anticipate his "drop shots." Since you will already be halfway there, this will be much easier to handle and you can put the ball wherever you like. Your best shot will be DEEP and Down The Line (or into his groin!). My point is get him off the baseline and keep him from hitting moonballs all day long.

Second, with his short backhand replies, move forward before or as he hits the ball and take it early. If he is deep, try a nice crosscourt angle. If he is on top of the baseline, hit it deep and to his BH again. You may be able to volley.

Last and absolutely most important, DO NOT GIVE UP!! When he realizes that your aren't going to let him win with your unforced errors he will begin to try and force the issue; the shoe will be on the other foot so to speak. At 3.0, you're not going to win matches with your serve alone, so don't rely on it. It's bad for your ego. Be consistent and find opportunities to get him out of his comfort zone.

[kevhen]

What about slicing to his weaker lobbing side where he usually slices it back but be standing at the net to put these away?

Work on your serve consistency so you don't have those bad serving days.