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lawrence
02-15-2007, 12:12 PM
prolly been done to death, but your personal opinions?

1. federer
2. samprass
3. laver
4. borg/mcenroe
5. agassi
(yer 6, ah well)

actually. federer shouldnt be #1, but im putting him there as a prediction for his next few years haha

downey stringing master
02-15-2007, 12:33 PM
1. Agassi
2. Sampras
3.Greg Rusedski
4. Lendl
5. Mcenroe
6. Edberg Becker Borg

deflori
02-15-2007, 02:14 PM
Muster
Kuerten
Corretja
Costa
all just nice to watch..

downey stringing master
02-15-2007, 02:19 PM
Muster
Kuerten
Corretja
Costa
all just nice to watch..

wow all just nie to watch.. must be like agassi , i never heard of him :s

Nick Irons
02-15-2007, 02:32 PM
1. Graf
2. Evert
3. Navritilova
4. Sampras
5. Federer

drakulie
02-15-2007, 02:52 PM
Federer
McEnroe
Sampras/Borg
Laver
Agassi

TokyopunK
02-15-2007, 03:29 PM
Nadal
Hewitt
Gasquet
Hyung Taik Lee
eh i guess federer

Zets147
02-15-2007, 03:47 PM
Federer
Srichaphan
Udomchoke
Sampras
meh.. Hyung Taik Lee

scaino
02-15-2007, 04:12 PM
Open Era:
Federer, Sampras, Laver, Borg, Agassi

All Time:
Vines, Federer, Hoad and Sampras (tie), Kramer

slice bh compliment
02-15-2007, 04:14 PM
Federer
Srichaphan
Udomchoke
Sampras
meh.. Hyung Taik Lee

Hmmm, lemme guess, you are either Thai or Korean.

Well, either way, props to you and your nation's cuisine.

In no particular order:
Lew Hoad,
Pancho Gonzales,
Rod Laver,
Pete Sampras,
and Bjorn Borg (though I believe Roger Federer will supplant him shortly....and possibly eclipse the other four of the above players).

chaognosis
02-15-2007, 04:24 PM
1. Budge
2. Laver
3. Tilden
4. Gonzales
5. Federer

Scaino, how on earth do you justify ranking Vines first? Even among his contemporaries, Budge clearly established himself as Vines's superior. There is a similar problem with placing Hoad over Gonzales. I could understand your list perhaps on the basis of pure talent, which I agree is an important criterion, but certainly not the only one. And if you are ranking based on talent, why are Agassi and Borg in your Open Era top five, but not McEnroe, perhaps the most talented player of them all?

scaino
02-15-2007, 05:01 PM
To Chaognosis:

I have read your posts on Budge, and agree that he was one of the all-time greats, but I do not think it is clear that he was the best even of the 1930s. In Budge's own testimony, Vines surpassed him at his best and was the true 'Champion of the Decade.' Vines is the first player whose greatness cannot be appreciated without reference to the early pro tours. He was a strong number one in 1932, as dominant as Budge in '37. After falling a bit in '33, Crawford's great year, he turned pro in '34 and it could be argued remained the world number one until his NARROW defeat by Budge in '39, when Vines was no longer fully dedicated to tennis, becoming more interested in golf, and on top of that suffering from physical problems. Budge on the other hand was only clearly the number one in 1939 & '40, also '42, after falling in '41. Tilden, Budge and Kramer, and many others, players and writers alike, agreed that Vines was the best ever on his day. Kramer maintains this opinion even after seeing Federer. The later generation of Gonzales, Rosewall and Laver, among others, called Hoad the greatest, but I rate the opinion of Budge and Kramer higher as they witnessed both Vines and Hoad at their best. So Vines > Hoad. Gonzales, toward the end of his life in 1995, ranked Sampras on a level with Hoad, so I am inclined to agree, with Vines still ahead. Laver now calls Federer the best he has seen, so balancing the opinions of Laver and Kramer, we have Vines > Federer > Hoad/Sampras. These four in my opinion represent the first class, with Tilden, Budge, Kramer, Laver, Borg, Agassi, et al, behind them at a distance. I have seen both McEnroe and Agassi at their best, and maintain that Agassi was superior. McEnroe was a sublime touch player, but he lacked the power. On the subject of Vines, there is an excellent book by his son, 'The Greatest Athlete of All Time' (2004), which provides a lot of source material from Vines's career and private life.

slice bh compliment
02-15-2007, 05:03 PM
Okay, I am convinced, the only way to do this (and have fun wid it) is to make several lists.

So, in addition to my list above....

...taking into account the recency factor:
Federer,
Nadal,
Andre,
Sampras,
Borg.

My personal favorites:
Federer,
Guga,
Boris,
Pete,
Noah.

Childhood favorites:
Nastase,
McEnroe,
Ashe,
Pancho Gonzales (who I saw at some Almaden Masters event),
Borg.

Amazing players I've only read about (that deserve mention here):
Tilden,
Kramer,
Elly Vines,
Budge
Riggs.

stormholloway
02-15-2007, 09:36 PM
Federer
Borg
Laver
Sampras
McEnroe

Nick Irons
02-15-2007, 10:04 PM
Men

1. Laver
2. Sampras
3. Federer
4. Connors
5. Lendl

Women

1. Graf
2. Evert
3. Navratilova
4. Court
5. Seles

SgtJohn
02-15-2007, 10:29 PM
I voluntarily don't rank Federer until he's retired, though I predict he'll be in the top 2 or top 3 in any list:

Open Era:
Borg
Sampras
McEnroe
Lendl
Laver (ranked for his Open Era achievements only)

All-time:
Gonzales
Rosewall
Laver
Budge
Tilden

urban
02-15-2007, 10:33 PM
Laver, Tilden, Borg/Sampras, Gonzales, (Rosewall).

AndrewD
02-16-2007, 02:05 AM
1.Laver,
2.Budge,
3.Rosewall,
4. Borg
5. Gonzales ( I do believe Federer will supplant him)

Top 3 players won the biggest events on all surfaces - grass, clay and hardcourt. 4 won numerious times on the two most disparate surfaces, clay and grass. 5 won on everything bar clay. However, he did have three runner-up efforts which beats out Sampras, Kramer, McEnroe, Connors and, to date, Federer

People claim that players like Rosewall and Laver only had to win on clay and grass. That is untrue. Both of them (and most all of the top players at some stage) turned pro and played Wembley, which was considered to be the world championship of professional tennis. It was played on an indoor hardcourt. Resultantly, those men - Kramer, Rosewall, Gonzales, Hoad, Laver, Sedgman, etc- played what amounts to a hard court 'major'. For the record, Gonzales won 4, Laver won 4 and Rosewall won 6.

jaggy
02-16-2007, 04:50 AM
To watch for me in the mens, Nastase, Gene Mayer, Santoro, Leconte and O. Rochus (Bahrami also I suppose)

Women-Sabatini, Mandlikova, Mauresmo, Goolagong and Tauziat

Moose Malloy
02-16-2007, 08:59 AM
5 won on everything bar clay. However, he did have three runner-up efforts which beats out Sampras, Kramer, McEnroe, Connors and, to date, Federer


what were Gonzales' runner-ups on clay? I think Sampras has a case for being ranked higher than him. He did with the Italian(not a major, but was a very big event in the 70s/80s. less so when the atp put it as one of the super 9 in 1990, but still)

My respect for Laver is growing, now that I can see many of the draws on the itf website. He was amazing on all surfaces, even post 1969-urban pointed to me in this direction, apparently Laver won the Italian Open in '71, beating Kodes in straight sets in the final. Laver & a number of top ranked players were banned from the French that year & Kodes ended up winning the title(he wasn't even seeded at the Italian that year but was #1 seed at the French, which shows how inferior the field was at Roland Garros)
If politics weren't a factor, Laver may have won 3-4 more majors post '69, he hardly played in them after '69.

TGV
02-16-2007, 10:55 AM
To Chaognosis:
Tilden, Budge and Kramer, and many others, players and writers alike, agreed that Vines was the best ever on his day. Kramer maintains this opinion even after seeing Federer.

I do remember Kramer mentioning Vines when asked during 2004 USO which player(s) from his day could compete with Federer.

But here - in a 2001 article - he seems to rate Budge as best ever:

Asked to name his top five grass-court players of all time, Kramer responds: "Without putting them in any particular order, I would have to start with Don Budge. I will never see anybody that played the game better than Budge. My next pick is Ellsworth Vines. Pancho Gonzales has to be in that group. So does Rod Laver. Sampras is right in there with them." He feels Budge would have provided the toughest opposition for Sampras. "He had the best return of serve of all the great grass court players I mentioned."

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010625/ai_n14398833

chaognosis
02-16-2007, 11:06 AM
I do remember Kramer mentioning Vines when asked during 2004 USO which player(s) from his day could compete with Federer.

But here - in a 2001 article - he seems to rate Budge as best ever:

Asked to name his top five grass-court players of all time, Kramer responds: "Without putting them in any particular order, I would have to start with Don Budge. I will never see anybody that played the game better than Budge. My next pick is Ellsworth Vines. Pancho Gonzales has to be in that group. So does Rod Laver. Sampras is right in there with them." He feels Budge would have provided the toughest opposition for Sampras. "He had the best return of serve of all the great grass court players I mentioned."

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010625/ai_n14398833

You and scaino are both correct. Kramer has always ranked Budge as the best ever, but he has also stated the Vines at the top of his game surpassed Budge. He does a fuller analysis in his autobiography. Your quote is very interesting, however, because it does seem that Kramer has changed his mind. He has always rated Budge and Vines first, but they used to be followed by Tilden, then Perry, Riggs, and Gonzales. He included Laver only in the second tier of great players. It seems he has backed off in his support of Riggs, who was always a bit of an esoteric pick, as well as Tilden and Perry.

vkartikv
02-16-2007, 11:11 AM
its not fair to rate the top 5 of all time when hardly anyone here has been around since the days of fred perry. so the top 5 of all time (my time - '85-current)
1. Edberg
2. Fed
3. Becker
4. Pete
5. Agassi

kanjii
02-16-2007, 11:45 AM
mens:

1-Lendl
2-Borg
3-Sampras
4-McEnroe
5-Agassi

women:

1-Navratilova
2-Evert
3-Graf
4-King
5-Seles


Of course...these may change when others retire. Not in any particular order also.

BeckerFan
02-21-2007, 11:32 AM
My top five: Tilden, Laver, Budge, Sampras, Borg.

JZImmer123
02-21-2007, 06:22 PM
Hyung Taik Lee? LOL! Wasn't he the lucky loser in one of those US Opens a while back.

VolklVenom
02-21-2007, 07:25 PM
1.Hoad
2.Federer
3.P.Gonzales
4.Sampras
5.Borg

35ft6
02-21-2007, 08:55 PM
1. Federer
2. Sampras
- Connors
- Borg
- McEnroe
- Lendl
- Agassi

I know 1 and 2, but the rest is hard.

larlarbd
02-25-2007, 08:19 PM
Sampras
Sampras
Sampras
Sampras
Sampras

BeckerFan
02-26-2007, 09:56 AM
Sampras
Sampras
Sampras
Sampras
Sampras

Hm ... seems I've heard this one before.

CyBorg
03-08-2007, 12:43 PM
1. Borg/Federer .. two all-courters
3. Laver
4. Sampras .. couldn't win on clay aside from Rome once
5. McEnroe .. at his peak he was amazing

andreh
03-09-2007, 02:51 AM
its not fair to rate the top 5 of all time when hardly anyone here has been around since the days of fred perry. so the top 5 of all time (my time - '85-current)
1. Edberg
2. Fed
3. Becker
4. Pete
5. Agassi

Hey, I'm a huge Edberg fan and would like to see him top the list, but I'm curious as to the criteria that would lead you to that conclusion? Or is this simply a subjective list of favs?

fr600
03-09-2007, 04:03 AM
Federer
Sampras
Agassi

The other two spots are still blank. You may apply now.

Just kidding

CEvertFan
04-13-2007, 07:06 PM
Open Era Only

Men:
1. Sampras (Best serve)
2. Federer (Sublime all around game)
3. Borg (Fastest player)
4. McEnroe (Best serve/volley game)
5. Agassi (Best baseliner)

Women:
1. Navratilova (Best serve/volley woman all time)
2. Evert (Most mentally tough, most consistent and best backhand all time)
3. Graf (Best forehand and SLICE backhand)
4. Court (Great serve/volley player)
5. King (Awesome one-handed backhand and great serve/volley player)

I would comment on Pre Open era players, but all I know of them is what I've read and I don't feel that qualifies as having enough info to personally rate them.

Pete Semper
04-20-2007, 05:58 AM
Sampras
Borg
McEnroe
Lendl
Agassi

avmoghe
04-24-2007, 12:43 AM
1.) Rod Laver
2.) Sampras
3.) Borg
4.) Federer
5.) Not sure....

I don't know much about Tilden and the other pre-open era greats.. so I've left them out.

EZRA
04-24-2007, 11:42 AM
Men:
Sampras
Federer
Agassi
Lendl
Edberg

Women:
Navratilova
Court
Graf
Evert
Seles

Personal Faves:
1. GORAN
2. GUGA
3. PAT RAFTER
4. MARAT
5. KORDA

IcyBox
04-24-2007, 02:35 PM
Federer
Sampras
Agassi
Borg
McEnroe

personal favourites:

Muster
Agassi
Safin
Guga
Rafter

FEDEX1
04-24-2007, 03:04 PM
1. Sampras
2. Federer
3. Laver
4. Borg
5. Mcenroe/Agassi

CyBorg
04-24-2007, 04:31 PM
1. Borg/Federer .. two all-courters
3. Laver
4. Sampras .. couldn't win on clay aside from Rome once
5. McEnroe .. at his peak he was amazing

I'm looking at this again and I am liking what I have here. I rated open era only, of course. I don't think the two should be combined. Drastically different tennis and no one knows where to rank the likes of Cochet in respect with contemporary players.

A few more thoughts. I'm leaning towards separating Borg from Federer until Roger shows improvement on clay. Both are all-courters - pure all-courters - grew up on all surfaces, can dominate any tournament. But only Borg could dominate both clay and grass. This is important.

Laver had amazing lasting power. He won Philadelphia, I believe, in 1974 - it was a 128-man draw and he just waltzed through it. Philly, as some of you may know, was like the fourth slam at the time (much more important than the afterthought Aussie Open). This is one of the forgotten great performances. The interesting thing about Laver is that he peaked closer to the age of 30, while in his twenties he made many adjustments and particularly in his early 20s he struggled against pros like Rosewall and Gonzalez. A very unusual player. His volleying skills aged him well.

Sampras was amazingly clutch, the heart of a champion, all that clicheed jazz you've already heard. Probably the most 'money' serve ever and whatever struggles he ever experienced would be dissolved once the grass season began and he'd be back to his dominating ways. Sampras played with amazing tempo - he knew when to start and stop and when to turn up the heat a little bit and catch his opponent off guard. This is unlike most players, even Federer, who tend to play at a fairly even tempo. Whereas Sampras would go hot and cold quite often over the course of the match - hot at the most vital of times. Still he was brutal on clay in most of his years. The best player of all time can't be brutal on a major surface. Sorry.

McEnroe - someone on these boards put it well when he said that if you saw him in his prime on grass you would have sworn he was the greatest. He may have been even greater in the 60s.

CyBorg
04-24-2007, 04:33 PM
Laver in Philly - 1974.

Philadelphia WCT, PA, U.S.A.
GP, 21-Jan-74, I, Carpet , Draw: 128
R128 Vazquez, Modesto Tito (ESP) N/A 6-4 3-6 6-2
R64 Borowiak, Jeff (USA) N/A 6-4 6-2
R32 Drysdale, Cliff (RSA) N/A 6-4 6-4
R16 Case, Ross (AUS) N/A 6-4 6-2
Q Okker, Tom (NED) N/A 6-4 6-2
S Kodes, Jan (CZE) N/A 6-4 1-6 6-4 6-0
W Ashe, Arthur (USA) N/A 6-1 6-4 3-6 6-4

Big draw. Huge event. Due to our ignorance we care more for the Aussie Open results of this time than those of Philly and Dallas. Stupid.

Kaptain Karl
04-24-2007, 10:01 PM
Even though I am awed by Federer ... I have more respect for the players who rose to the top in BOTH Singles and Doubles. So ... here is my group of Top Of All Time. (Yeah. There are six.)

Laver, Emerson, Stolle, Newcombe, Rosewall, McEnroe

I *almost* included Budge, Tilden, Vines, Borotra, Cochet and Nastase, but no.

- KK

ckthegreek
04-25-2007, 12:41 PM
1. Agassi
2. Sampras
3.Greg Rusedski
4. Lendl
5. Mcenroe
6. Edberg Becker Borg

Rusedski? :-o :-o
Agassi better than Sampras? In what way?

doh! some people

Gilgamesh
04-25-2007, 09:00 PM
I'm only gonna list players who I have watched.

My Top 5 all-time (in no particular order since I change my mind between the 5 all the time) would be: Borg, Sampras, Federer, Connors, Lendl/JMac/Agassi (any one of these three can be inserted to complete the 5).

My all-time favorite player though is: JMac

All-time best at peak of their game: Federer

z-money
04-25-2007, 09:33 PM
id go with sampras, laver, federer, conners, lendl.

SgtJohn
04-26-2007, 06:36 AM
I always like a good ol' GOAT list:

Players I've mainly read about:
In no particular order
Laver
Rosewall
Gonzales
Borg
Federer

Players whose games I actually watched on TV (basically 1975-today):
Borg
Lendl
McEnroe
Sampras
Federer

z-money
04-26-2007, 10:57 AM
Muster
Kuerten
Corretja
Costa
all just nice to watch..

im starting to see a theme here lol. guga i can see, but not the rest only muster would i consider.

SgtJohn
05-02-2007, 01:14 AM
Laver in Philly - 1974.

Philadelphia WCT, PA, U.S.A.
GP, 21-Jan-74, I, Carpet , Draw: 128
R128 Vazquez, Modesto Tito (ESP) N/A 6-4 3-6 6-2
R64 Borowiak, Jeff (USA) N/A 6-4 6-2
R32 Drysdale, Cliff (RSA) N/A 6-4 6-4
R16 Case, Ross (AUS) N/A 6-4 6-2
Q Okker, Tom (NED) N/A 6-4 6-2
S Kodes, Jan (CZE) N/A 6-4 1-6 6-4 6-0
W Ashe, Arthur (USA) N/A 6-1 6-4 3-6 6-4

Big draw. Huge event. Due to our ignorance we care more for the Aussie Open results of this time than those of Philly and Dallas. Stupid.

Interesting, I didn't know Philadelphia had such a big draw in '74-'75, much like Key Biscayne these days...Do you think the field was as good in 1975, when Riessen won the event?

John

Setmatch45
05-07-2007, 07:58 PM
Pete
Lavar
Federer
Andre
John Mac

FedSampras
05-07-2007, 08:11 PM
Here's the Greatest of all time (Open Era)

Men

1. Sampras
2. Federer (future #1)
3. Borg
4. Lendl
5. Agassi


Women

1. Martina Navratilova

Simply the all around greatest athlete and icon of the women's game. Her Grand Slam titles (in all formats) make her the best, and what she did as far as introducing power-training into ALL of women's sport cannot be duplicated. The best.

2. Chris Evert

The most consistent player in Open history (men or women), tied at 18 Slam singles titles with Navratilova, a career 90% win-loss record (greatest of men or women), longest surface win streak of any player (125 clay wins), and winner of at least one Slam title a year for 13 straight years. Seven-time year-end No. 1 player. Greatest clay court artist of all time (7 French crowns). Though Evert was not a truly great athlete, she was a ruthless court tactician--much greater than Hingis. Though Billie Jean King gave women's tennis its great foundation, it was Evert who brought worldwide popularity to the game with both her phenomenal success and her feminine appeal. A superstar who was, in her day, far more popular and light years more accomplished than any Kournikova.

3. Billie Jean King

Her many Grand Slam titles are perhaps rightly overshadowed by her power as an ambassador for the game--she made women's pro tennis POSSIBLE and was was one of the all-time fiercest competitors. A pure force of sport--PERIOD.

4. Margaret Smith Court

Between 1960 (Pre Open Era) and 1975 won 24 Grand Slams in singles ( a record). Court is one of only three players to have achieved a career "boxed set" of Grand Slam titles, winning every possible Grand Slam title – singles, same-sex doubles and mixed doubles – at all four Grand Slam events. The others are Doris Hart and Martina Navrátilová. Also widely remembered for having that heavily publicized and televised challenge match to a former World No. 1 male tennis player, the 55-year-old Bobby Riggs, on Mother's Day, May 13, 1973.

5. Steffi Graff*

Graff is the third woman after Maureen Connolly and Margaret Court to achieve the Grand Slam and won more slams than Navratilova and Evert. However, note the asterisk. Her great accomplishments will always be balanced by the reality that her reign had come to a complete end at the hands of her greatest rival and superior--Monica Seles. When Seles was stabbed, Graff's post-1993 accomplishments lose a luster that will never be regained. Even so, Graff belongs at No. 5.

5. Monica Seles*

Seles could well have ended up No. 1 if she had not been nearly murdered on court by a fanatic. By far the most relentless, powerful, and determined player women's Open Era tennis had ever seen, she was cut down before her peak, but in just three years time had racked up 8 Grand Slam singles titles, beginning with the 90 French in June and ending with the 93 Aussie in January. In the process, she utterly and unexpectedly dethroned the great Graff--no contest. She braved everything to come back after a three-year hiatus to add one last Slam in 96, bringing her total to 9 for the Open era (Third behind Graff and Navratilova/Evert). Seles was simply the greatest competitor and power the game had ever seen in her peak years. There should have been many more Slams (and would have been), but we must never forget that it was NOT a "tennis injury" or "accident" that took her out. It was a calculated, deliberate act of human CRIME. Her legacy will live on.

oiler90
05-07-2007, 08:28 PM
Federer
Graf
Sampras
Navratilova
Laver

Espen
05-08-2007, 12:29 AM
Bjrn Borg
John MacEnroe
Pete Sampras
Andre Agassi
Ilie Nastase

VamosRNadal2007
05-08-2007, 06:14 PM
Men

1. Pete Sampras
2. Roger Federer
3. Bjrn Borg
4. Rod Laver
5. Andre Agassi

Women

1. Martina Navratilova
2. Steffi Graf
3. Chris Evert
4. Monica Seles
5. Serena Williams

My Favorites

1. Rafael Nadal
2. Juanqu Ferrero
3. Marat Safin
4. Carlos Moy
5. Goran Ivanisevic

vkartikv
05-08-2007, 06:32 PM
If you are asking about just personal taste/favourites and not the best based on records, it would be
1. Stefan Edberg
2. Roger Federer
3. Goran Ivanisevic
4. Boris Becker
5. tie between Marat Safin and Pat Rafter

1. Steffi Graf
2. Martina Navaratilova
3. Martina Hingis
4. Justine Henin
5.Gaby

KirkRussell
05-08-2007, 07:36 PM
Too many old timers listing their thoughts here. LOL!

You can not accurately justify a players position in time without him living in it. There is no way Tilden was in the shape Aggassi was in at his prime. Players today are bigger, stronger and have better hand eye cordination. This is from better training and ETC....

But if we really want to get into it:

1. Sampras
2. Borg
3. Federer
4. Aggasi
5. Lendl

This is based off of the Open Era. You know after wood rackets. Technology has changed everything.

- Kirk Russell

KirkRussell
05-08-2007, 07:37 PM
Rusedski? Did you eat a Canadien ham for breakfast?

slice bh compliment
05-09-2007, 01:33 AM
...
This is based off of the Open Era. You know after wood rackets. Technology has changed everything.

- Kirk Russell

Kirk Russell, sorry you feel that way. That's sort of the deal with with inter-era comparisons, though. Anyway, man....your sense of chronology is off.

The open era began in 1968.
Many top pros used wood in the seventies, and even in the early 80s. Example: one of the finest tennis matches in the history of tennis was played in the summer of 1980. It involved your number two man: Borg. He beat McEnroe in 5 sets in the Wimbledon final. Both guys used wood racquets.

Did you know Lendl used a wooden Slazenger when he was coming up (before he switched to a Kneissl)?

Arafel
05-09-2007, 07:33 AM
I don't see how anyone can put Lendl over Connors. They won the same number of slams, but a 32-33 year old Connors beat Lendl in consecutive US Open finals. Connors has more singles titles, more weeks at number 1, and beat Lendl the two times it counted most. Most of Lendl's wins over Connors came post 85, when he was older and couldn't maintain his level of effort over a two weeks span.

I'm not sure you can put McEnroe over Connors either. As much as I loved JMac, and as impressive as his 1984 was, McEnroe finished with fewer Slams the Connors, fewer weeks at number 1 etc. Did you know Connors is second to McEnroe in combined singles and doubles titles? Connors won several doubles titles, including a Grand Slam with Nastase.

If I had to pick a top 5, it'd be:

Laver
Sampras
Borg
Connors
Federer

Women:
Navratilova
Evert
Graf
Court
Seles/King

KirkRussell
05-09-2007, 07:43 AM
Kirk Russell, sorry you feel that way. That's sort of the deal with with inter-era comparisons, though. Anyway, man....your sense of chronology is off.

The open era began in 1968.
Many top pros used wood in the seventies, and even in the early 80s. Example: one of the finest tennis matches in the history of tennis was played in the summer of 1980. It involved your number two man: Borg. He beat McEnroe in 5 sets in the Wimbledon final. Both guys used wood racquets.

Did you know Lendl used a wooden Slazenger when he was coming up (before he switched to a Kneissl)?

Sorry for being off on the Open Era statement. That I agree, I was off on.

But as I said, there is no comparison. Lets compare Babe Ruth to basddeball players of today, not all but some are steroid users. These players are stronger and quicker.

Steroids are illegal but their are 20 other drugs that are "somewhat" simliar are not illegal. But they do inhance performace.

Only way to do a fair comparison is to compare accomplishments. Know of a website that does this?

Thanks,
KR

KirkRussell
05-09-2007, 07:47 AM
Here is a good view on this conversation as for the top two players!

http://www.geocities.com/hovav13/who_is_the_greatest_tennis_player_of_all_time.html


Enjoy, Kirk Russell

KirkRussell
05-09-2007, 07:49 AM
http://www.rateitall.com/t-792-male-tennis-players-all-time.aspx

Here is another one!

N23
05-09-2007, 10:19 AM
Men-

1. Sampras
2. McEnroe
3. Laver
4. Budge
5. Federer

Women-

1. Navratilova
2. Graf
3. Court
4. Evert
5. Gibson

Hard to say players I haven't seen play are better than anyone I have though.

beernutz
05-09-2007, 11:05 AM
In no particular order:

Sampras
Federer
Borg
McEnroe
Agassi

Trinity TC
05-09-2007, 04:36 PM
Tied for first: Budge, Laver, Sampras.
Tied for fourth: Federer, Borg

edit: After that Kramer 6th and it would be a toss up with Agassi, McEnroe, Connors, Gonzales, Hoad, a few others that I can't think of now...and maybe Tilden for 7th. Riggs, Rosewall and Perry would be in the next bunch on my list.

ATPballkid
05-09-2007, 08:03 PM
Pete Sampras
Bill Tilden
Don Budge
Rod Laver
Ken Rosewall
Bjorn Borg
Roger Federer
Fred Perry
Pancho Gonzeles
Henri Cochet
Ivan Lendl
Rene Lacoste
Jack Kramer
Jimmy Connors
John McEnroe
Andre Agassi
Lew Hoad

ATPballkid
05-09-2007, 08:06 PM
1. Navratilova
2. Wills Moody
3. Evert
4. Lenglen
5. Court
6. BJ King
7. Graf
8. Seles
9. Connolly
10. Serena, Hingis

FabioGlorioso
05-09-2007, 09:21 PM
After reading books and books, watching videos, reading opinions of journalist as Clerici, Tommasi, Collins.....looking at results

Without any order, impossible to determinate, exept that of ages:

Don Budge
Jack Kramer
Rod Laver
Pete Sampras
Roger Federer

Suzanne Lenglen
Margareth Smith Court
Chris Evert
Martina Navratilova
Steffi Graf

FabioGlorioso
05-09-2007, 09:38 PM
Ken McGregor - Frank Sedgman
Lew Hoad - Ken Rosewall
John Newcombe - Tony Roche
Peter Fleming - John McEnroe
Todd Woodbridge - Mark Woodforde

Louise Brough - Margareth Osbourne du Pont
Shirley Fry - Doris Hart
Rosie Casals - Billie Jean King
Martina Navratilova - Pam Shriver
Gigi Fernandez - Natalia Svereva

beernutz
05-10-2007, 09:27 AM
Ken McGregor - Frank Sedgman
Lew Hoad - Ken Rosewall
John Newcombe - Tony Roche
Peter Fleming - John McEnroe
Todd Woodbridge - Mark Woodforde

Louise Brough - Margareth Osbourne du Pont
Shirley Fry - Doris Hart
Rosie Casals - Billie Jean King
Martina Navratilova - Pam Shriver
Gigi Fernandez - Natalia Svereva

Interesting list. I think the Bryans probably agree with you: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-sptencol04may04,0,5945419.story

FabioGlorioso
05-10-2007, 12:35 PM
The Bryan Bros are younger enough to enter (maybe) in that list......

slice bh compliment
05-10-2007, 01:37 PM
Noah,
Rafter,
Rostagno,
Kuerten
and Nastase.

Obviously, I'm going just on hipness.

And love for the sea (which is the reason Nasty is 5th and not 1st or 2nd).

chrisdaniel
05-10-2007, 01:59 PM
1.Sampras
2.Borg
3.Laver
4.Federer
5.Agassi
6.Connors
7.Mcenroe
8.Lendl

FabioGlorioso
05-10-2007, 02:02 PM
Agassi is overvalued....what about Kramer, Budge, Perry, Hoad, Rosewall, Gonzales (Pancho)....?

Gilgamesh
05-10-2007, 08:45 PM
Agassi is overvalued....what about Kramer, Budge, Perry, Hoad, Rosewall, Gonzales (Pancho)....?

How is Agassi overvalued?

You gotta remember many of us didn't watch the likes of Kramer, Budge, Perry, and etc. play so it is hard to evaluate them but yeah if you want to make a "real" top 5 list you can't leave off Tilden. He is clearly the greatest pre-Open era. But for me at least it is hard to say for certainty if Tilden is better than the players I saw because the only reference I am going by for Tilden is articles, records, and etc which is why my list only included players I have watched with reasonable frequency.

FabioGlorioso
05-10-2007, 09:05 PM
How is Agassi overvalued?

You gotta remember many of us didn't watch the likes of Kramer, Budge, Perry, and etc. play so it is hard to evaluate them but yeah if you want to make a "real" top 5 list you can't leave off Tilden. He is clearly the greatest pre-Open era. But for me at least it is hard to say for certainty if Tilden is better than the players I saw because the only reference I am going by for Tilden is articles, records, and etc which is why my list only included players I have watched with reasonable frequency.

Yesterday I watched an interview at the great italian journalist Gianni Clerici presentig the new edition of his marvellous book "500 anni di tennis" (500 years of tennis): it is impossible to determinate the greatest!! Expecially before the open era when there were pro and "amateur" players.

FabioGlorioso
05-10-2007, 09:13 PM
Clerici answered to a question during that interview: probably the greatest ever was the aussie Rod Laver. He won 2 Grand Slam in 1962 and 1969, between those years he was pro (winning the most part of matches he played) so he could not win any Slam. He won totally 11 Slam titles......how many Slam he could win if he had ever played as an "amateur"? Maybe 25??????

I agree with Clerici, maybe Laver is the greatest.

Do you know Gianni Clerici?

FabioGlorioso
05-10-2007, 09:47 PM
To know something about Clerici.....and Tommasi too. Great italian journalist. Clerici is in the Hall of Fame of Tennis since 2006

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,901020916-348963,00.html/

Pete Semper
05-11-2007, 08:08 AM
Laver
Sampras
Borg
Lendl
McEnroe

Gilgamesh
05-13-2007, 09:12 AM
Yesterday I watched an interview at the great italian journalist Gianni Clerici presentig the new edition of his marvellous book "500 anni di tennis" (500 years of tennis): it is impossible to determinate the greatest!! Expecially before the open era when there were pro and "amateur" players.

It is hard to say with absolute certainty who is the greatest player of all time because not only the division between amateur and open era but changes in equipment, surfaces, and etc.

Tilden, Laver, Pancho, Borg, Sampras, and Fed all have winning arguments to be the GOAT. I wouldn't disagree with anybody calling any of those guys their GOAT.

fujitsu77
05-13-2007, 09:36 AM
1. fujitsu77 w/ a big bubba
2. fujitsu77 w/ his pog
3. fujitsu77 w/ his other pog
4. fujitsu77 w/ a big bubba tour
5 fujitsu77 w/ any weed racquet

z-money
05-21-2007, 09:28 AM
Sampras
Sampras
Sampras
Sampras
Sampras

hmmm "i like you, i will kill you last" lol

Gizo
05-21-2007, 10:06 AM
Top 5 from 1973 onwards (when the computer ranking system was introduced):
1 - Borg
2 - Sampras
3 - Federer (so far)
4 - Lendl
5 - Agassi

Top 5 prior to 1973:
1 - Laver
2 - Tilden
3 - Rosewall
4 - Gonzalez
5 - Cochet

Gizo
05-22-2007, 11:34 AM
Today I took a closer look at Borg's playing record, especially paying attention to his results on his weakest surface, hard. Based on what I read I have to change my mind and put Borg over Sampras in my post-1973 list.
Borg was unbelieavably good on clay, grass and carpet.
Sampras was unbelievably good on grass, hard and carpet.
Borg was better on hard (3 US Open finals on the surface, 4 titles) than Sampras was on clay. Therefore in my opinion Borg was more versatile and masterful across all the surfaces. Plus I personally think that his 3 consecutive French Open-Wimbledon doubles are more impressive than anything that Sampras achieved, so Borg gets my renewed vote.

Wuornos
10-07-2007, 04:41 AM
In my honest opinion, and this is certainly out of line with most fans and expert pundits views, I would say the following:

1. Roger Federer
2. Ivan Lendl
3. Pete Sampras
4. Bjorn Borg
5. Mats Wilander

Tim

hoodjem
10-07-2007, 07:55 AM
My respect for Laver is growing, now that I can see many of the draws on the itf website. He was amazing on all surfaces, even post 1969-urban pointed to me in this direction, apparently Laver won the Italian Open in '71, beating Kodes in straight sets in the final. Laver & a number of top ranked players were banned from the French that year & Kodes ended up winning the title(he wasn't even seeded at the Italian that year but was #1 seed at the French, which shows how inferior the field was at Roland Garros)


I vaguely remember that this was the case in 1971 at the FO, does anyone remember why the top pros were banned?


P.S. The Italian Open used to have a lot of clout back in the 60s-80s, being called a part of the "Old World Triple" with FO and All England LTA Championships (at Wimbledon). (Kind of ranked iat the top of a second tier of tournaments just after the four Grand Slam events.)