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Moose Malloy
02-16-2007, 11:42 AM
maybe other events will follow san jose's example:

Andy Murray
"The court was probably 40% faster than last year, which I wasn't expecting.
"I'd probably like it a little bit slower, but I play pretty well indoors and I get a bit more on my serve, so that's good."

Roddick
"It's a different tournament," he said. "The court is quicker than any place I played last year. It helps my serve a little, but it can also work as an equalizer -- if someone gets hot on serve, it's tough to break through."

Karlovic
The court is excellent for my game. It's really quick, so I like it.

Tournament director Bill Rapp acknowledged it was a conscious effort to speed up the surface. Rapp, responding to player feedback, had the final coat of paint (and water) applied without any sand. So the court now plays as much as 50 percent faster than it did in 2006, to hear the estimates of Rapp and several players. "A lot of guys thought it was too slow," Rapp said. "It was frustrating for some of them. We kind of went to a medium-fast court, from a medium-slow court, because I thought a majority of guys would prefer that."

http://home.cogeco.ca/~courtcoverage/index.html

alienhamster
02-16-2007, 12:55 PM
maybe other events will follow san jose's example:

Andy Murray
"The court was probably 40% faster than last year, which I wasn't expecting.
"I'd probably like it a little bit slower, but I play pretty well indoors and I get a bit more on my serve, so that's good."

Roddick
"It's a different tournament," he said. "The court is quicker than any place I played last year. It helps my serve a little, but it can also work as an equalizer -- if someone gets hot on serve, it's tough to break through."

Karlovic
The court is excellent for my game. It's really quick, so I like it.

Tournament director Bill Rapp acknowledged it was a conscious effort to speed up the surface. Rapp, responding to player feedback, had the final coat of paint (and water) applied without any sand. So the court now plays as much as 50 percent faster than it did in 2006, to hear the estimates of Rapp and several players. "A lot of guys thought it was too slow," Rapp said. "It was frustrating for some of them. We kind of went to a medium-fast court, from a medium-slow court, because I thought a majority of guys would prefer that."

http://home.cogeco.ca/~courtcoverage/index.html Well, Nadal can't be too happy about this if it is, in fact, a trend. But I'm certain Roddick and Blake are happy, which makes me wonder: is this a bit of US favoritism, perhaps? Let's speed up the surface for our boys' sake?

illkhiboy
02-16-2007, 01:00 PM
Well, Roddick actually prefers medium-slow courts. Remember the Davis Cup match against Croatia in the States. The team requested a slow surface to suit Roddick, and even Agassi said that he personally would prefer a faster surface but that it made sense to play on the slow stuff because it would favor the team's best player.

Roddick does'nt mind the medium-slow surface since his serve is still very effective on it, but he gets more time to set up his forehand.

Which might also be a reason why he has arguably performed better at the Australian Open than in the US Open over the years.

fastdunn
02-16-2007, 01:11 PM
Hmm, interesting turn of event. Especially after AO reportedly speeded up a bit.

How about the ball ATP's using ?
What I heard is it's a bit heavier and touch bigger....

Nadal_Freak
02-16-2007, 01:34 PM
Well, Roddick actually prefers medium-slow courts. Remember the Davis Cup match against Croatia in the States. The team requested a slow surface to suit Roddick, and even Agassi said that he personally would prefer a faster surface but that it made sense to play on the slow stuff because it would favor the team's best player.

Roddick does'nt mind the medium-slow surface since his serve is still very effective on it, but he gets more time to set up his forehand.

Which might also be a reason why he has arguably performed better at the Australian Open than in the US Open over the years.
:confused: Roddick has always played better at the US Open.

alienhamster
02-16-2007, 01:38 PM
Well, Roddick actually prefers medium-slow courts. Remember the Davis Cup match against Croatia in the States. The team requested a slow surface to suit Roddick, and even Agassi said that he personally would prefer a faster surface but that it made sense to play on the slow stuff because it would favor the team's best player.

Roddick does'nt mind the medium-slow surface since his serve is still very effective on it, but he gets more time to set up his forehand.

Which might also be a reason why he has arguably performed better at the Australian Open than in the US Open over the years. I know he's said that in the past, but I wonder if he still feels that way. That DC match certainly didn't turn out too well for any of the Americans.

I just watch his play at Indy, Cincy, and the US Open every year, and his game seems to do VERY well on the speedier hard courts. Maybe less because it helps his game but more because it HURTS the other players, particularly the more "clay-courter" type players who can play well on hard courts. Those guys (like a Ferrer or Andreev) seem to be more likely to take Andy out on the the slower hard court surfaces.

ACE of Hearts
02-16-2007, 01:41 PM
Looks like Ivo is really enjoying it so far.

illkhiboy
02-16-2007, 02:05 PM
I know he's said that in the past, but I wonder if he still feels that way. That DC match certainly didn't turn out too well for any of the Americans.

I just watch his play at Indy, Cincy, and the US Open every year, and his game seems to do VERY well on the speedier hard courts. Maybe less because it helps his game but more because it HURTS the other players, particularly the more "clay-courter" type players who can play well on hard courts. Those guys (like a Ferrer or Andreev) seem to be more likely to take Andy out on the the slower hard court surfaces.

That's true actually. But he has won Miami before, I wonder how well he has done at Indian Wells over the years. I remember the one time he lost to Hewitt in 3 breakers in the semis. But I guess you're right. Although, it may be that the summer US hardcourt tourneys give him a mental boost knowing that he is preparing to play in New York. I am just speculating, I think you're point will be proven right empirically.

Nadal_Freak
02-16-2007, 02:56 PM
Nadal would obviously benefit from slower hard courts but longer matches aren't exactly good for Nadal's long term health and injuries. As long as the clay season doesn't speed up I'm fine.

NamRanger
02-16-2007, 03:49 PM
Surfaces are getting faster because last year every court was too slow. Most hardcourts (with a few exceptions, the U.S. Open being one of them) last year were much slower, and the ball bounced up much higher. Although this allowed alot of claycourters to play better on hardcourts and have better results, the majority of the players didn't like it at all (I think Blake said it in one of his interviews last year). The surfaces are all different for a reason, and that's why you have guys like Nadal, Robredo, etc. who are clay court specialists, and should remain clay court specialists untill they prove they can actually play a true hardcourt game, not a slightly modified clay court game.



Wimbledon was probably the biggest load of bull. S&V players were unable to S&V because the court was too slow to do it. Balls bounced pretty high too from what I could tell from some of my recorded matches.

ACE of Hearts
02-16-2007, 03:52 PM
I hope they speed up wimbledon just so i can see some serve and volley from Roger.

fastdunn
02-16-2007, 04:24 PM
I don't think there's no going back in Wimbledon.
To me, traditional grass court tennis died sometime between 2001-2003
when majority of semi, quarter-finalists started to be filled by baseliners..

Zaragoza
02-16-2007, 05:12 PM
Surfaces are getting faster because last year every court was too slow. Most hardcourts (with a few exceptions, the U.S. Open being one of them) last year were much slower, and the ball bounced up much higher. Although this allowed alot of claycourters to play better on hardcourts and have better results, the majority of the players didn't like it at all (I think Blake said it in one of his interviews last year). The surfaces are all different for a reason, and that's why you have guys like Nadal, Robredo, etc. who are clay court specialists, and should remain clay court specialists untill they prove they can actually play a true hardcourt game, not a slightly modified clay court game.



Wimbledon was probably the biggest load of bull. S&V players were unable to S&V because the court was too slow to do it. Balls bounced pretty high too from what I could tell from some of my recorded matches.

Nadal and Robredo aren´t clay court specialists. Actually they got better results on hardcourts than most of the players considered hardcourters (who are ridiculously overrated in most of the cases, also on hardcourts).

alienhamster
02-16-2007, 06:06 PM
I don't think there's no going back in Wimbledon.
To me, traditional grass court tennis died sometime between 2001-2003
when majority of semi, quarter-finalists started to be filled by baseliners..
A lot of this is due to the wear on the grass in the second week, right?

I mean, whenever Nadal's shots landed deep on the "eaten up" parts around the baseline, the balls were bouncing up SO HIGH. I don't ever remember grass court tennis like that. And it wasn't just Nadal.

Why is "grass" a lost cause, though? Can't they seed a slightly speedier grass blend? They need to, because the grass was just ridiculously slow/high this past year.

NamRanger
02-16-2007, 06:27 PM
Nadal and Robredo arenīt clay court specialists. Actually they got better results on hardcourts than most of the players considered hardcourters (who are ridiculously overrated in most of the cases, also on hardcourts).


They are clay court specialists. Their best results have mainly come on medium-slow hardcourts (Dubai being the only one I can think of that wasn't slow) that allow them to play claycourt like tennis. I mean, seriously, when they are backing up on second serves to attack them, that's really dumb.

flyboy1
02-16-2007, 06:33 PM
Both Roddick and Federer have said that in general, the surfaces on tour (except clay) have slowed significantly over the last few years. Federer said that when he first started playing on grass, he served and volleyed pretty much every point because the surface was fast enought to support such a game plan. Even the hard court tournaments have become slower in general. This is in reaction to people complaining awhile ago about the men's game being boring and having too few rallies. As a result, many tournaments, including wimbledon, have done what they could to slow the courts to increase the rallies. Also, as a result, serve and volley is a more difficult strategy to employ successully. Sure the San Jose tournament has sped the game up a bit, but as a general rule, according to Roddick and Federer, the courts have slowed in the last few years. Maybe what we're seeing at San Jose is the happy return to faster courts :-)

NamRanger
02-16-2007, 06:37 PM
Both Roddick and Federer have said that in general, the surfaces on tour (except clay) have slowed significantly over the last few years. Federer said that when he first started playing on grass, he served and volleyed pretty much every point because the surface was fast enought to support such a game plan. Even the hard court tournaments have become slower in general. This is in reaction to people complaining awhile ago about the men's game being boring and having too few rallies. As a result, many tournaments, including wimbledon, have done what they could to slow the courts to increase the rallies. Also, as a result, serve and volley is a more difficult strategy to employ successully. Sure the San Jose tournament has sped the game up a bit, but as a general rule, according to Roddick and Federer, the courts have slowed in the last few years. Maybe what we're seeing at San Jose is the happy return to faster courts :-)


That would be nice. People like Agassi, Courier, etc. baselined on super fast courts for quite some time, I don't see why the pros of today can't do it. And please, don't say that racquet technology has come a long way from 5-10 years ago, because the the only big advancement recently has been the transition to graphite, and that's been awhile now.

The tennis guy
02-16-2007, 06:50 PM
maybe other events will follow san jose's example:


Indoor will be faster, but don't expect outdoor will be.

Change from medium-slow to medium-fast outdoor is not dramatic change, but it is dramatic for indoor.

ATP should get rid of super heavy duty balls, use same balls WTA use. Super heavy duty ball tilts the balance more than the court speed itself.

illkhiboy
02-16-2007, 08:08 PM
They are clay court specialists. Their best results have mainly come on medium-slow hardcourts (Dubai being the only one I can think of that wasn't slow) that allow them to play claycourt like tennis. I mean, seriously, when they are backing up on second serves to attack them, that's really dumb.

What about Madrid and Montreal?

Sadyv
02-16-2007, 08:17 PM
I always felt that all the whining and moaning about the men's game becoming a servathon back in the 90's was an over reaction, caused by the game at that time having probably the greatest batch of servers in history.

Pretty much no matter what era they played in, when you had Sampras, Becker, Ivanisevic, Krajicek and others like Stich, Rusedski, all playing at the same time and in the same tournaments, you are going to see alot of aces and dominate serving.

Nadal_Freak
02-16-2007, 08:57 PM
Well I guess I'm not in the majority on this. I prefer a grind out fest rather than quick points. Kinda boring waiting 30 seconds just for a quick point and on to the next point.

fastdunn
02-19-2007, 12:10 AM
So anybody has info that there will be quickening of surfaces ATP-wide ?

And any changes in the type of the balls ?

The tennis guy
02-19-2007, 11:38 AM
So anybody has info that there will be quickening of surfaces ATP-wide ?

And any changes in the type of the balls ?

They do want to increase the speed of indoor events. That started with the surface selection of master final 2 years ago. It takes time for tournament to buy into it and implement it. Similar with slowdown. It didn't happen over night. More tournaments follow suit when they see slower surface tournaments have more success with atracting more participation of fans. They are not going to change balls any time soon.

ATP is not solely responsible for surface speed. They give guideline, and tried to make surface more similar in each time period of the year, spring hardcourt slower, summer hardcourt faster, etc. It's the tournament director who decides the actual speed as long as they follow the guideline. For example, US open warm-up events, it's the directors who don't use the same fast court as US Open. No one asked them to make the court that slow.

travlerajm
02-19-2007, 12:28 PM
Tennis is cyclical. When people thought the points were too short and hitting service winners were too easy, they slowed down the court. Now that has led to the current brand of tennis where spin is in and S&V is out. Now they are speeding up the courts again in hopes of resurrecting the S&V style. IMO they will stay fast for awhile.

bluetrain4
02-19-2007, 12:32 PM
I just hope they don't go overboard. Making the courts faster to give S&V players a better chance would be great. But, I hope they don't make them too fast so we're back where we started.

vkartikv
02-19-2007, 02:28 PM
As long as they don't make wimbledon fast, it doesnt matter to me. Wimbledon is where I'd like to see the courts of the 80s make a return and s&v players thrive so people like nadal dont cross the first round

scineram
02-19-2007, 03:03 PM
I agree SW19 is the most important.

NamRanger
02-19-2007, 03:14 PM
What about Madrid and Montreal?


Montreal is quite slow compared to most courts, and Madrid Nadal did play pretty well, but should never have won that match. Ljubicic choked big time in that, Nadal should have never won it.

ChiefAce
02-19-2007, 04:00 PM
Faster courts mean more aces, you won't ever see a change back to chip and charge. Jimmy Arias talked about it in the Murray/Roddick match and said that play just simply didn't work in todays game. Guys will still hit crazy passing shots off slice approaches. It might make it a bit tougher, but these guys pass so well it won't matter much.

You won't see a return to serve and volley, you'll see a return to serve and pop up smash or serve and unreturnable.

What makes the most sense to me is medium paced outdoor hardcourts or even slightly fast. Slow to medium indoor courts because the game feels so much faster inside, and the slams can stay as is.

Moose Malloy
02-28-2007, 12:28 PM
Just read that Haas didn't face a break point in Memphis, I'm sure court speed had something to do with that. Also, judging from players & fans comments Dubai is quite fast this year.

Zaragoza
02-28-2007, 12:52 PM
Montreal is quite slow compared to most courts, and Madrid Nadal did play pretty well, but should never have won that match. Ljubicic choked big time in that, Nadal should have never won it.

Ljubicic didnīt choke, he played great in the first 2 sets but Nadal never gives up, everybody knows it, so he deserved to win.

Andres
02-28-2007, 01:00 PM
Ljubicic didnīt choke, he played great in the first 2 sets but Nadal never gives up, everybody knows it, so he deserved to win.
He choked. I'm not a Nadal hater, not at all, but Ivan choked. Nadal didn't give up, that's true, but Ivan choked.