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Ryan in Saratoga
02-22-2007, 01:43 PM
Just wondering if anyone on here is a coach. I myself have been playing for 6 years and i am going to college in 2 years so i need to start thinking career choices. Figured i would ask here since most of you can give the answer to me (unlike my guidence counciler). My question is what is the likelyhood i would be able to be a coach for private lessons or at a club or a private tennis school and make a good living?

Raiden.Kaminari
02-22-2007, 04:25 PM
If you live at your parents house in Saratoga, and consider that the norm, then the answer would be, "no."

The typical tennis instructor doesn't make more than 60K a year.

And actually, the lower ranked ATP and WTA players usually don't make 20k a year, if even that much.

Ryan in Saratoga
02-22-2007, 04:53 PM
do you mean if i am an older person living in my parents house or do you mean as old as i am living in my parents house (im 17)

Raiden.Kaminari
02-22-2007, 05:00 PM
No ... I mean, if you enjoy living in Saratoga as compared to somewhere like East Palo Alto.

To live in Saratoga, your parents have to be making more than $100K. Unless they got the house from their parents.

Swissv2
02-22-2007, 05:06 PM
If you are good, you will have a comfortable living as a tennis instructor, but by no means "wealthy". There is a tennis instructor around here that tries to work almost 12 hours a day, all year, and gets paid $35-$40 an hour. You can calculate out how much he potentially makes from those numbers.

Another coach around here gets paid to have a successful collegiate team, and he is comfortable - if not very wealthy.

You will have to become a "star coach" to get the big money.

Ryan in Saratoga
02-22-2007, 05:16 PM
No ... I mean, if you enjoy living in Saratoga as compared to somewhere like East Palo Alto.

To live in Saratoga, your parents have to be making more than $100K. Unless they got the house from their parents.

o ok i get what you mean.

I was just wondering if it is possible to make a good living. What is a likelyhood of finding me a job as a coach or instructor that makes $35 or $40 an hour? And where would i most likely find this job? A college? Club? Private school?

And is there like a college to learn to be an instructor?

goober
02-22-2007, 05:39 PM
o ok i get what you mean.



And is there like a college to learn to be an instructor?

Check out a college degree in professional tennis management. Probably will give you more options.

http://www.methodist.edu/ptm/

http://www.ferris.edu/cob/ptm/index.cfm

http://www.tjc.edu/tennistech/

Ryan in Saratoga
02-22-2007, 05:43 PM
ok thanks for your help.

Raiden.Kaminari
02-25-2007, 02:57 AM
o ok i get what you mean.

I was just wondering if it is possible to make a good living. What is a likelyhood of finding me a job as a coach or instructor that makes $35 or $40 an hour? And where would i most likely find this job? A college? Club? Private school?

And is there like a college to learn to be an instructor?

Is that $35 or $40 an hour AFTER the court / club fee? For example, a tennis instructor may charge $60 an hour for a private lesson, but has to pay the court / club (college, etc.) $30 an hour for a court. But the $60 hour pro is usually a pretty experienced, USPTA pro 1 or PTR pro.

You can make a stable income as a tennis director. Problem is, you make more money as a successful tennis instructor.

If you make $35 to $40 an hour, remember this only translates to at most $80K per year, because you won't be able to give lessons all the time assuming you are healthy (at a certain point, your body does break down ... it's called getting old).

I know a tennis pro that developed skin cancer, despite taking precautions. His income dropped severely :(

cak
02-25-2007, 04:44 AM
If you are really from Saratoga, CA, then you might get a kick out of this, I play tennis in Saratoga, but I know my pro lives near me in Los Altos Hills. There is another tennis pro that lives down the street from me. I think you can earn a decent living as a club tennis pro. You might not be making tons of money when you start out, but if you are a good teacher and a good people person you can build a following and bring in good money. If you are organized and can run a tennis program you can get a solid job. And, as my tennis coach points out, you get to choose some of the best places in the world to work. He's worked in the Carribean and Hawaii for many years. He moved to California to be near family. As others have pointed out, it's a physical job and can be hard on the body. In addition, skin cancer is always lurking out there. If you only have outdoor courts to work with, you are at the mercy of the weather, so rainy years are tough. But if it's something you love, the club pros I know really enjoy their work.

Topaz
02-25-2007, 06:03 AM
Our club tennis director pulled in 120,000 last year.

Ryan in Saratoga
02-25-2007, 10:55 AM
it is definately on my list for something i may want to consider going to college for but it looks like most tennis instructors only are making around $40,000 a year.

J011yroger
02-25-2007, 11:18 AM
It depends on where you live, my friends who are club pros make between 25-50/hour depending on experience. I was offered a job starting at 35K/year for the first year, and increasing yearly to 100k/year after 5 years.

Here private lessons are 80-120/hour but I am shocked at how cheap they are in other places around the country.

J

Nick Irons
02-25-2007, 11:18 AM
I am currently studying for USPTA Certification and am 37 (Career change). It depends where and how you approach coaching. There are so many different opportunites

Summer camps
High end resorts
upscale country clubs
parks and recreation
childrens after school clinics
private lessons
high school coaching
et al

All of them can (and most usually) are combined. My local club pro isn't in the highest end club in town, but does a combination of Head pro, private lessons and clinics (at the club) and a summer camp (through the parks and recreation) and cleared 'over 75,000' last year.

Not bad considering you're out hitting the ball all day.

J011yroger
02-25-2007, 11:51 AM
Nick, I suggest you try to get some part time work in...it isn't like hitting a ball all day, it takes a special type. Not saying that it isn't for you, or you would be bad at it, but it isn't like getting paid to play tennis all day. Some of the stuff you have to deal with are.

1. Small, misbehaved kids, who do not listen to you, and cry for no reason.
2. Older kids who do not want to be taking lessons, and have no aspirations of getting better, and who put forth no effort, and generally just dont give a crap.

This is what pros hate, and we call it babysitting.

3. Your assortment of housewives, hit and giggle players, chronic lesson takers, blah blah blah, they are good people, but are possessed of almost 0 skill or ability, and not willing to practice to get better, so all you end up doing is dead ball drills or tapping the ball back to them in rallies/games.

4. Stubborn people who tell you straight up that they refuse to change their current stroke, they don't care if it is right or wrong, they feel comfortable and are not changing.

5. People with unorthodox/hacker strokes who have been playing that way for 30 years and can play 3.5 or 4.0 and just now decided that they want lessons.

6. The parents of tournament playing juniors.

7. 4.0 players who think they will be in the US open with just a little more practice.

8. The list goes on, and on and on.

Once in a while you get a good player to hit with, or someone who genuinely wants to learn, or good tournament playing juniors whom you can help. But in the beginning, you get stuck with all the little little kids, or the hit and giggle players, or you run drill sessions, and feed balls. Just like any other job, you gotta pay your dues doing the garbage work before you can move up to the fun stuff. And you need to have the type of personality to maintain the look that you are trying and putting forth effort, when it is obvious that your lesson really doesn't give a $#!7.

Like I said, before you dive in, try to get some part time hours, and make sure you have the right personality, because it definately isn't like you get paid to play tennis all day.

J

NoBadMojo
02-25-2007, 12:09 PM
There arent very manyTP's who make a good living teaching tennis. Many of them arent even sponsored in any sort of real way. Think it sounds glamorous? It ain't..the hours are awful, it beats up your body, and you have to be able to tolerate all kinds of funky behaviour from people, and if you do it full time for any length of time, the last thing you want to do after work is look at another tennis ball, let alone hit one..the security also aint so great unless you get very lucky, and if you get injured, you're hosed. many have to buy their own health care coverage, insurances, etc. it's a burnout job for many if you do it full time for any sort of duration. There are a billion TP's out here..almost anyone can become a certified TP.....it's all about if you know how to teach or not and know how to/want to play the mind games with owners and members, and that all takes experience....there are plenty of experienced pros already in place taking the few really good jobs, with more waiting in the wings..tennis just isnt very popular and there is a huge glut of teaching pros...however, if you are good looking and ripped and speak with an accent and will do whatever some manager who doesnt know tennis wants you to do, you may be able to do ok for a while..in cases like that, ability to teach tennis often becomes unimportant
Also, dont believe when you hear what TP's make...it's like all those 4.0's claiming to be 5.0's
I only taught full time for maybe 3 years..that was plenty to make me realize I needed to rely on another career, but i've most always taught part time, and that's fun

ipodtennispro
02-25-2007, 12:10 PM
Check out a college degree in professional tennis management. Probably will give you more options.

http://www.methodist.edu/ptm/

http://www.ferris.edu/cob/ptm/index.cfm

http://www.tjc.edu/tennistech/


I am the Head USPTA tester for the Hawaii Section. We are ALWAYS looking for energetic, upbeat, caring, etc. professionals and most of all, pros who are thirsty for new knowledge. The game is changing and the newer professionals actually have an advantage with all the new information and techniques out there. I suggest you volunteer or start with the USTA Parks and Rec programs to get your feet wet and then see how you like it.

A coaching career can take many different directions. The landscape is different now. Everyone is becoming specialists in their fields. High Perfomance, Little Tennis, Sports Science, Fitness etc etc. Lastly, and most important, get a mentor. You will need a qualified teacher to help you along the way.

Lee Couillard
Head Tester, USPTA Hawaii Division
Past President, USPTA Hawaii Division
Head Pro, Punahou School
www.ipodtennispros.com

Ryan in Saratoga
02-25-2007, 12:30 PM
thanks for all the help. I really appriciate it.

Nick Irons
02-25-2007, 12:50 PM
Nick, I suggest you try to get some part time work in...it isn't like hitting a ball all day, it takes a special type. Not saying that it isn't for you, or you would be bad at it, but it isn't like getting paid to play tennis all day. Some of the stuff you have to deal with are.

1. Small, misbehaved kids, who do not listen to you, and cry for no reason.
2. Older kids who do not want to be taking lessons, and have no aspirations of getting better, and who put forth no effort, and generally just dont give a crap.

This is what pros hate, and we call it babysitting.

3. Your assortment of housewives, hit and giggle players, chronic lesson takers, blah blah blah, they are good people, but are possessed of almost 0 skill or ability, and not willing to practice to get better, so all you end up doing is dead ball drills or tapping the ball back to them in rallies/games.

4. Stubborn people who tell you straight up that they refuse to change their current stroke, they don't care if it is right or wrong, they feel comfortable and are not changing.

5. People with unorthodox/hacker strokes who have been playing that way for 30 years and can play 3.5 or 4.0 and just now decided that they want lessons.

6. The parents of tournament playing juniors.

7. 4.0 players who think they will be in the US open with just a little more practice.

8. The list goes on, and on and on.

Once in a while you get a good player to hit with, or someone who genuinely wants to learn, or good tournament playing juniors whom you can help. But in the beginning, you get stuck with all the little little kids, or the hit and giggle players, or you run drill sessions, and feed balls. Just like any other job, you gotta pay your dues doing the garbage work before you can move up to the fun stuff. And you need to have the type of personality to maintain the look that you are trying and putting forth effort, when it is obvious that your lesson really doesn't give a $#!7.

Like I said, before you dive in, try to get some part time hours, and make sure you have the right personality, because it definately isn't like you get paid to play tennis all day.

J

Way ahead of you; already mentoring 2 days a week and an unpaid 3rd day when my own son takes the childrens clinic !

Your bullet points kind of sum up 'every work situation' as far dealing with non-sense. I've worked in many sectors in my time thus far and all of them have their downsides

It depends on your life outlook and being positive! You wanna know about crazy children ? I also assistant coach my 6 year old sons basketball and little league teams. Aye yae yae.

Don't worry, I'm not going into this with tunnel vision; it's still a job.

Tks for the tips though!

J011yroger
02-25-2007, 02:08 PM
OK good to hear. I teach part time, mostly to pay for my playing, but I love helping other who want to get better too. But I don't teach full time, because firstly I am not done playing, and secondly, I have low BS tolerance. Just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking you were gonna get paid to play tennis, and get an unlimited supply of hitting partners to make yourself better.

And god bless you for being able to deal with legions of 6 year olds...I didn't like kids when I was one. When they get a few years on them, they are OK, and if they are serious about tennis, we get along great, but them under 10 ones who think tennis lessons are play time...well in the words of Scotty "I just can't do it cap'n"

J

Nick Irons
02-25-2007, 02:40 PM
I have low BS tolerance

LMAO

Well, to be honest, most other children drive me mad, but for some reason I am good with them. :P

J011yroger
02-25-2007, 03:52 PM
Low BS tolerance may also account for me being single, but hey, there are worse things in the world ;)

J

Cruzer
02-27-2007, 11:08 AM
Nick, I suggest you try to get some part time work in...it isn't like hitting a ball all day, it takes a special type. Not saying that it isn't for you, or you would be bad at it, but it isn't like getting paid to play tennis all day. Some of the stuff you have to deal with are.

1. Small, misbehaved kids, who do not listen to you, and cry for no reason.
2. Older kids who do not want to be taking lessons, and have no aspirations of getting better, and who put forth no effort, and generally just dont give a crap.

This is what pros hate, and we call it babysitting.

3. Your assortment of housewives, hit and giggle players, chronic lesson takers, blah blah blah, they are good people, but are possessed of almost 0 skill or ability, and not willing to practice to get better, so all you end up doing is dead ball drills or tapping the ball back to them in rallies/games.

4. Stubborn people who tell you straight up that they refuse to change their current stroke, they don't care if it is right or wrong, they feel comfortable and are not changing.

5. People with unorthodox/hacker strokes who have been playing that way for 30 years and can play 3.5 or 4.0 and just now decided that they want lessons.

6. The parents of tournament playing juniors.

7. 4.0 players who think they will be in the US open with just a little more practice.

8. The list goes on, and on and on.

Once in a while you get a good player to hit with, or someone who genuinely wants to learn, or good tournament playing juniors whom you can help. But in the beginning, you get stuck with all the little little kids, or the hit and giggle players, or you run drill sessions, and feed balls. Just like any other job, you gotta pay your dues doing the garbage work before you can move up to the fun stuff. And you need to have the type of personality to maintain the look that you are trying and putting forth effort, when it is obvious that your lesson really doesn't give a $#!7.

Like I said, before you dive in, try to get some part time hours, and make sure you have the right personality, because it definately isn't like you get paid to play tennis all day.

J

From reading your post it almost appears that you hate giving tennis instruction. I could compile a list of a dozen things about my job that are tedious, boring, and generally not much fun but I guess that is the nature of working for a living. Any job no matter how glamorous, easy, or enjoyable it appears is still a job. No one is going to get paid a high five figure or low six figure salary for doing something that is as simple as it may appear to an observer.

Raiden.Kaminari
02-27-2007, 12:58 PM
From reading your post it almost appears that you hate giving tennis instruction. I could compile a list of a dozen things about my job that are tedious, boring, and generally not much fun but I guess that is the nature of working for a living. Any job no matter how glamorous, easy, or enjoyable it appears is still a job. No one is going to get paid a high five figure or low six figure salary for doing something that is as simple as it may appear to an observer.

Actually, J011yroger's bullets are pretty much on.

Teaching can be hard because you are dealing with a lot of non-professionals. Trying to teach girls has been my worst experience so far, especially the ones that don't want to "achieve."

You tell them to run drills, they ask why. You make them run the drills, they complain to their parents. Ugh!

On a positive note, at the end of the season, a few parents come up to you and tell you that you helped their kids improve, taught them something besides tennis, and a few kids also say "Thanks Coach!"

PTR Instructor / USPTA DC (because USPTA says they only want full time coaches, not part-time coaches), full time network security architect.

Cruzer
02-27-2007, 04:10 PM
Actually, J011yroger's bullets are pretty much on.

Teaching can be hard because you are dealing with a lot of non-professionals. Trying to teach girls has been my worst experience so far, especially the ones that don't want to "achieve."

You tell them to run drills, they ask why. You make them run the drills, they complain to their parents. Ugh!

On a positive note, at the end of the season, a few parents come up to you and tell you that you helped their kids improve, taught them something besides tennis, and a few kids also say "Thanks Coach!"

PTR Instructor / USPTA DC (because USPTA says they only want full time coaches, not part-time coaches), full time network security architect.

Yeah, I expect his comments are pretty accurate. Being a tennis instructor is a job just like being an accountant, plumber, or truck driver. There are aspects about any job that workers like and others they detest.

vudal
02-27-2007, 08:47 PM
Coaching is for players that cant make it. Sometimes called jipseys. They hop from one player to another as their slave.

J011yroger
02-27-2007, 10:04 PM
From reading your post it almost appears that you hate giving tennis instruction. I could compile a list of a dozen things about my job that are tedious, boring, and generally not much fun but I guess that is the nature of working for a living. Any job no matter how glamorous, easy, or enjoyable it appears is still a job. No one is going to get paid a high five figure or low six figure salary for doing something that is as simple as it may appear to an observer.

If I hated teaching, I wouldn't do it. Nick said he was making a career change, and I wanted to make sure he didn't have the rose colored glasses thing goin on. And I wanted to tell the OP that all that glitters isn't gold.

Everybody gets this vision of feeding balls all day being easy, or playing with great players/juniors, and getting paid to do and be around what they love. And that is a great and fun part, and most of the other pros are good and friendly people. But no one talks about the girl who when you hit her a lolipop feed, she takes a weak hack at the ball, and completely misses it, then looks at you like you are to blame. And you can't tell her, "What the F do you expect me to do, if you swing and completely miss the ball, I can't fix that, I can't make that better, you need to pay attention and practice, and PUT FORTH EFFORT." It is one thing to start out with your drop hits with foam balls, drop hits with real balls, then hand feeds, then racquet feeds, as long as the person is putting forth effort, and improving. I get girls, and housewives who think that just by standing next to me on court, they are going to absorb my playing ability through osmosis...If that worked, I would be standing next to a bank, hoping to absorb some cash.

I love teaching, and helping people who want to learn, and get better, that is why I do it part time, on my own so I can pick and choose who I teach. But realize that it is not for everyone, and that playing ability does not translate to teaching ability, and that some people are best suited to teach different people and different ability levels.

J

Topaz
02-28-2007, 02:24 PM
If I hated teaching, I wouldn't do it. Nick said he was making a career change, and I wanted to make sure he didn't have the rose colored glasses thing goin on. And I wanted to tell the OP that all that glitters isn't gold.

Everybody gets this vision of feeding balls all day being easy, or playing with great players/juniors, and getting paid to do and be around what they love. And that is a great and fun part, and most of the other pros are good and friendly people. But no one talks about the girl who when you hit her a lolipop feed, she takes a weak hack at the ball, and completely misses it, then looks at you like you are to blame. And you can't tell her, "What the F do you expect me to do, if you swing and completely miss the ball, I can't fix that, I can't make that better, you need to pay attention and practice, and PUT FORTH EFFORT." It is one thing to start out with your drop hits with foam balls, drop hits with real balls, then hand feeds, then racquet feeds, as long as the person is putting forth effort, and improving. I get girls, and housewives who think that just by standing next to me on court, they are going to absorb my playing ability through osmosis...If that worked, I would be standing next to a bank, hoping to absorb some cash.

I love teaching, and helping people who want to learn, and get better, that is why I do it part time, on my own so I can pick and choose who I teach. But realize that it is not for everyone, and that playing ability does not translate to teaching ability, and that some people are best suited to teach different people and different ability levels.

J

I teach public school, and with just a few word changes, what you wrote would also perfectly describe my job. Teaching, no matter what you are teaching, is always more enjoyable when the student wants to improve and be there.

J011yroger
02-28-2007, 03:02 PM
Yea, when I was a kid, I loved astronomy/physics, and I knew the only job I could get dealing with that would be a college prof. And I knew I wouldn't want to teach. Ya know, I just don't want anyone to waste a lot of time/effort/money, thinking that they are gonna get paid to play tennis all day. If I was going to teach full time, I would definately change my grips, but I am not done playing yet...there is stuff like that that you have to think of.

J

Raiden.Kaminari
02-28-2007, 11:57 PM
What I've found is that there is a "feast" or "famine" thought process by some instructors. I have two recent bad experiencess with some USPTA Pro 3 level instructors.

I was feeding some balls to a group of friends because they heard I was a great instructor. Mind you, this was for free, because I had a good group of friends really interested in working out. Both times, at public facilities, when I was visiting from out of town.

The first time, a USPTA pro 3 threatened to have me arrested for giving private lessons at a community college. The funny thing was, when people saw me doing the drills, asked if they could join, and I always say "the more the merrier." Afterwards they asked who they could take private lessons from, I told them, another coach besides the jerk that threatened me (this was after I got permission from the community college to give the free lessons to anyone who asked). I think I ended up referring about 12 students to 3 other instructors that even joined my drills.

The second time, another USPTA pro 3 asked the facility I had rented courts from to ban me from doing free drills. The USPTA master pro, USPTA pro 1(s) all asked the facility not to, since they got more referrals from me (I don't like giving private lessons, but like doing drills).

At facilities that had PTR instructors (of all levels), each time I did free drills for people, they appreciated it. Since my focus is to grow tennis, they usually benefited.

Anyway, if you are going to be an instructor, make sure you know what to expect and from which organization. From what I've seen, the USPTA seems more interested in profit making, compared to the PTR which proposes a "brotherhood" of instructors.

I got certified as a tennis instructor because, when I retire from being a network security architect, I want to be a teacher and give back to the community.

moonshine
03-01-2007, 04:42 AM
Pro 3 ratings don't make people a-holes. Making that generalization is unfair I think. I have had as many a-hole run-ins with PTR and USPTA P-1 and P2 professionals. I say this not just as a USPTA member (P-3), but as a tennis pro and player as well.

Raiden.Kaminari
03-01-2007, 12:28 PM
True ... but I've had more issues with USPTA Pro 3s than PTR associates (equivalent level to USPTA 3). Mind you, I have had some issues with some PTR associates, but not at the level that I've had from USPTA Pro 3s (trying to get me arrested).

Most higher level tennis instructors realize that the free drills I give to the public benefit them.

But the lower level tennis instructors are usually in "famine" mode. They think I'm taking business away from them, when the players I help usually never had lessons before in their life.

Once the players experience a free drill, they usually want to have more lessons, rather than working on their strokes by themselves.

What it comes down to is whether the tennis instructor is out there for money, or out there because of a passion for tennis (learning more about tennis, learning to teach it better, etc.).

J011yroger
03-01-2007, 02:45 PM
I have never, ever, ever been bothered by anyone while giving a lesson on a public, or school court. Usually 2 or 3 people come up to me, and ask about lessons. And I tell them, the first one is always free.

J

Cindysphinx
03-01-2007, 02:50 PM
Around here, anyone can give a lesson on an outdoor public court.

The indoor facilities are something else again. On those, only a pro affiliated with the facility can teach.

moonshine
03-01-2007, 06:08 PM
What it comes down to is whether the tennis instructor is out there for money, or out there because of a passion for tennis (learning more about tennis, learning to teach it better, etc.).

This, in my opinion, is the important thing to remember. I am out there to teach a person to enjoy a game that I love, and that has given so much to me over my life. That is definitely not the motivation for many "professionals." And it is indeed the passion for teaching that determines whether or not the pro is offended by or fearful of someone teaching for free at a public facility - not some stupid rating or class of membership in a professional organization.

zapvor
03-07-2007, 09:19 PM
Actually, J011yroger's bullets are pretty much on.

Teaching can be hard because you are dealing with a lot of non-professionals. Trying to teach girls has been my worst experience so far, especially the ones that don't want to "achieve."

You tell them to run drills, they ask why. You make them run the drills, they complain to their parents. Ugh!

On a positive note, at the end of the season, a few parents come up to you and tell you that you helped their kids improve, taught them something besides tennis, and a few kids also say "Thanks Coach!"

PTR Instructor / USPTA DC (because USPTA says they only want full time coaches, not part-time coaches), full time network security architect.


i was going to make a thread about it but since you mention it i will pick your brain first. i am thinking about becoming certified, and i am wondering if i should go with PTR or USPTA. right now i am leaning towards USPTA but you would have much better knowledge than i do.

and thanks for the insight to what i may be doing! maybe i will try avoiding the girls ;)

zapvor
03-07-2007, 09:26 PM
What I've found is that there is a "feast" or "famine" thought process by some instructors. I have two recent bad experiencess with some USPTA Pro 3 level instructors.

I was feeding some balls to a group of friends because they heard I was a great instructor. Mind you, this was for free, because I had a good group of friends really interested in working out. Both times, at public facilities, when I was visiting from out of town.

The first time, a USPTA pro 3 threatened to have me arrested for giving private lessons at a community college. The funny thing was, when people saw me doing the drills, asked if they could join, and I always say "the more the merrier." Afterwards they asked who they could take private lessons from, I told them, another coach besides the jerk that threatened me (this was after I got permission from the community college to give the free lessons to anyone who asked). I th
ink I ended up referring about 12 students to 3 other instructors that even joined my drills.

The second time, another USPTA pro 3 asked the facility I had rented courts from to ban me from doing free drills. The USPTA master pro, USPTA pro 1(s) all asked the facility not to, since they got more referrals from me (I don't like giving private lessons, but like doing drills).

At facilities that had PTR instructors (of all levels), each time I did free drills for people, they appreciated it. Since my focus is to grow tennis, they usually benefited.

Anyway, if you are going to be an instructor, make sure you know what to expect and from which organization. From what I've seen, the USPTA seems more interested in profit making, compared to the PTR which proposes a "brotherhood" of instructors.

I got certified as a tennis instructor because, when I retire from being a network security architect, I want to be a teacher and give back to the community.

Wow. where did this happen??? first off, i want to say that i admire what you are doing. the reason i am getting into teaching is because i love the game and i want to share it with others who have not experienced it yet. i cant believe other certified intructors did what they did. they are definitely in famine mode. personally i am not in it for the money. i have a finance background but i have decided that tennis is so great that i want to help me and others and promote the game. people need to be more like you!

Raiden.Kaminari
03-09-2007, 01:55 AM
i was going to make a thread about it but since you mention it i will pick your brain first. i am thinking about becoming certified, and i am wondering if i should go with PTR or USPTA. right now i am leaning towards USPTA but you would have much better knowledge than i do.

and thanks for the insight to what i may be doing! maybe i will try avoiding the girls ;)

When I joined the USPTA, I was hoping that being a member of the organization would:

A. Allow me to purchase some of their DVDs at a lower cost. Nope.
B. Had hoped that their liability insurance would be great. Nope ( A national high school tennis coach's liability insurance is much better).
C. Get great equipment discounts. Unfortunately, not that great since I discovered that USPTA "brands" and profits off of anything that is USPTA related. Great business plan though.

In contrast, my experince with PTR has been much more positive. And their discounts have been much better.

What finally pushed me towards PTR was after reading an Inside Tennis magazine letter that I read after picking it up while visiting NorCal. I saw an letter that was written by Ken DeHart (you will see his name in Tennis magazine once in a while). I agreed with what he wrote. The next month, again while visiting NorCal, I saw a rebuttal to Ken DeHart published by USPTA president, emphasizing that they were a business, and not a tennis "brotherhood" of instructors (who shared ideas, and tried to teach tennis for everyone).

It was much later (and after spending hundreds of dollars) that I discovered the truths about my comments A., B., and C.) You can also compare the size of the "companies." Anyway, if you do the research, you may discover the same thing.

Wow. where did this happen??? first off, i want to say that i admire what you are doing. the reason i am getting into teaching is because i love the game and i want to share it with others who have not experienced it yet. i cant believe other certified intructors did what they did. they are definitely in famine mode. personally i am not in it for the money. i have a finance background but i have decided that tennis is so great that i want to help me and others and promote the game. people need to be more like you!

The sad thing is that boss of the instructor that threatened to have me arrested offered me a position that paid $15 to $20 an hour. Hmmm ... working as a consultant pays hundreds of dollars an hour more, so why would I want to be a full time instructor working for someone who wants to charge $60 to $90 an hour (i checked into how much he charged his students to be taught by "his" instructors), and then only pay me $15. No wonder they were in famine mode.

zapvor
03-09-2007, 02:03 AM
When I joined the USPTA, I was hoping that being a member of the organization would:

A. Allow me to purchase some of their DVDs at a lower cost. Nope.
B. Had hoped that their liability insurance would be great. Nope ( A national high school tennis coach's liability insurance is much better).
C. Get great equipment discounts. Unfortunately, not that great since I discovered that USPTA "brands" and profits off of anything that is USPTA related. Great business plan though.

In contrast, my experince with PTR has been much more positive. And their discounts have been much better.

What finally pushed me towards PTR was after reading an Inside Tennis magazine letter that I read after picking it up while visiting NorCal. I saw an letter that was written by Ken DeHart (you will see his name in Tennis magazine once in a while). I agreed with what he wrote. The next month, again while visiting NorCal, I saw a rebuttal to Ken DeHart published by USPTA president, emphasizing that they were a business, and not a tennis "brotherhood" of instructors (who shared ideas, and tried to teach tennis for everyone).

It was much later (and after spending hundreds of dollars) that I discovered the truths about my comments A., B., and C.) You can also compare the size of the "companies." Anyway, if you do the research, you may discover the same thing.



The sad thing is that boss of the instructor that threatened to have me arrested offered me a position that paid $15 to $20 an hour. Hmmm ... working as a consultant pays hundreds of dollars an hour more, so why would I want to be a full time instructor working for someone who wants to charge $60 to $90 an hour (i checked into how much he charged his students to be taught by "his" instructors), and then only pay me $15. No wonder they were in famine mode.

1. thanks for replying to my question. i value your opinion highly since you experienced it first hand, and i appreciate you for sharing. i am definitely leaning towards PTR now. maybe i will start a poll just to see what everyone says? (not that i dont trust you just want to get more opinions to see). can you please tell me perhaps some flaws with PTR?

hahah $15-20. i certainly hope i wont fall into famine mode once i do it full time! how long have you been teaching?

Raiden.Kaminari
03-09-2007, 02:38 AM
My biggest complaint about the PTR is their small inventory of PTR produced instructional videos (although their magazine is far better than the USPTA magazine). That said, they do carry instructional videos at a discount, and have some very good titles. I also really liked their PTR error and stroke correction video.

My second biggest complaint about the PTR is their website. However, I also don't really like the USPTA website. Then again, don't get me started on the USTA website :(

I have to say I like customer service at PTR far better than USPTA.

However, USPTA seems better at building contracts with many companies and offering things to members at a slight discount. PTR has been very stable in their offerings, and sometimes gets boring :(

You can join both organizations if you're thinking of going full time. It does get expensive with the certification process (you can look up costs on both websites).

Both organizations offer good education, but I like the PTR approach. It's a lot more relaxed, and the folks I speak to that are PTR professional and instructors tend to be more willing to share information and ideas. The USPTA Pro 1(s) also share information and ideas, but not as freely as the PTR folks I've met.

Personally, I wish we could combine the best elements of both organizations. Unfortunately, there are some egos floating ... simply put, if you like a more corporate style ... USPTA. If you like a more family feeling, PTR.

Raiden.Kaminari
03-09-2007, 02:47 AM
Oh, I forgot to mention (and maybe you didn't realize by reading the website).

I have not taught tennis as a full-time career.

USPTA actually discouraged me from getting certified with them.

In contrast, PTR has been more encouraging.

So if you have a passion for tennis, a passion for teaching, but don't want to give up your more profitable career, this may be another consideration like it was for me.

rkwei
03-09-2007, 02:50 AM
In my area, Boston, the PTR teamed up with a local inner city club to give certification classes. They reduced the certification fee dramatically in exchange for donating 10 hrs of teaching services to the club. That was a nice touch.

Raiden.Kaminari
03-09-2007, 04:28 PM
Yeah ... it's things like that that makes the PTR more friendly.

zapvor
03-11-2007, 12:45 AM
My biggest complaint about the PTR is their small inventory of PTR produced instructional videos (although their magazine is far better than the USPTA magazine). That said, they do carry instructional videos at a discount, and have some very good titles. I also really liked their PTR error and stroke correction video.

My second biggest complaint about the PTR is their website. However, I also don't really like the USPTA website. Then again, don't get me started on the USTA website :(

I have to say I like customer service at PTR far better than USPTA.

However, USPTA seems better at building contracts with many companies and offering things to members at a slight discount. PTR has been very stable in their offerings, and sometimes gets boring :(

You can join both organizations if you're thinking of going full time. It does get expensive with the certification process (you can look up costs on both websites).

Both organizations offer good education, but I like the PTR approach. It's a lot more relaxed, and the folks I speak to that are PTR professional and instructors tend to be more willing to share information and ideas. The USPTA Pro 1(s) also share information and ideas, but not as freely as the PTR folks I've met.

Personally, I wish we could combine the best elements of both organizations. Unfortunately, there are some egos floating ... simply put, if you like a more corporate style ... USPTA. If you like a more family feeling, PTR.

Oh, I forgot to mention (and maybe you didn't realize by reading the website).

I have not taught tennis as a full-time career.

USPTA actually discouraged me from getting certified with them.

In contrast, PTR has been more encouraging.

So if you have a passion for tennis, a passion for teaching, but don't want to give up your more profitable career, this may be another consideration like it was for me.

In my area, Boston, the PTR teamed up with a local inner city club to give certification classes. They reduced the certification fee dramatically in exchange for donating 10 hrs of teaching services to the club. That was a nice touch.

thank you for replying again.

yea when i visted PTR site i thought it could be better too. much better actually. whats wrong with the USTA one? for the most part i like it. it needs to be updated more though i believe.

yea the reason i am choosing is because i cant afford both certifications now. i will do so in the future probably.

family is better!

why did the USPTA discourage you? it doesnt make sense to me. i am starting part time with this but i would like to make it full time since i love the game. there is nothing else i rather do.

rkwei thanks for your input as well.