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pound cat
03-02-2007, 08:17 AM
Reuters, The Associated PressPublished: March 2, 2007

TENNIS

The defending champion James Blake was handed a quarter-final berth at the Las Vegas Open after the ATP reversed a quirk in the rules of its new round-robin format that had seen him ousted in bizarre fashion.

Needing to beat the Argentine Juan Martín del Potro on Thursday with the loss of no more than five games to advance to the quarter-final, Blake, the top seed, was leading, 6-1, 3-1, when his opponent retired because of breathing problems, handing the American a walkover.

However, Blake was then told he would not advance as the rules said that games won or lost in a walkover did not count. His place would go to Evgeny Korolev on a head-to-head basis after the Russian beat Blake earlier in the competition. After lengthy discussions, however, the ATP backtracked and awarded Blake a place in the final eight. (Reuters)

Safin and Hewitt have spoken out and are furious. Korolev has learned his first lesson about how the ATP works. Blake thinks it's fair.

Who here thinks they did the right/wrong thing?

illkhiboy
03-02-2007, 08:29 AM
Hmm. Well obviously the rules need to be worked on. I guess the rules should have been followed and Blake ousted. But it would be unfair to Blake wouldnt it? He was well on his way to getting a victory with the loss of less than 5 games. The ATP think-tank should have come up with a system beforehand, that is, a pro-active one than the reactive last-minute decision they came up with. It just reflects poorly on the competition and ATP.

diegaa
03-02-2007, 08:37 AM
MOST UNFAIR THING I CAN REMEMBER WITHIN THE TENNIS WORLD. doping cases apart.

GRANITECHIEF
03-02-2007, 08:40 AM
I want to hear the official ruling for how this occured.

dubsplayer
03-02-2007, 08:44 AM
No.

And Blake should be ashamed of himself for accepting the berth into the qtrs even if the original rule was stupid to begin win. I'm not a big fan of his but now I've completely lost any iota of respect for him.

dima
03-02-2007, 08:45 AM
I think it was unfair to begin with, so whatever they did, it could only make it worse.

GRANITECHIEF
03-02-2007, 08:45 AM
Blake was on his way to earning the spot fair/square when DP retired. I think he should get the spot.

oscar_2424
03-02-2007, 08:48 AM
ANd this is why round robins shouldnt be played.

malakas
03-02-2007, 08:51 AM
I want to hear the official ruling for how this occured.

not sufficiently explained and Blake qualifed based on the scores HAD dp not retired.It's explained in details in another thread.

larlarbd
03-02-2007, 08:51 AM
OutRageous , Blake should be ousted & the qtrs place should be given to FEDERER ( as he has been so lucky this year & being handed the AUS2007 trophy by gonzo - why not this one ) ?
Just Kidding . Blake should not have taken the place for free neither should he handover it to the other guys - stick with the original rule as they started playing with . Then after tourney file complaint against the rule if it seems unfair .

mica
03-02-2007, 08:51 AM
I'm a huge Blake fan, but I think it's unfair to Korolev. The rules are what they are, and if they need to be changed, in the middle of a tournament is not the time to do it. Unfortunately, I also think the rule itself is unfair,although to a lesser extent. Apparently JMDP was also unaware of the rule and stated yesterday, that had he known, he would have just played out the match seeing as it was almost over anyway. In a case like this where the outcome of a tournament turns on so many variables, perhaps the tournament officials should have notified the players of all the possible consequences in a more proactive way? Granted it's the probably the player's responsibility to familiarize themselves with the rules, but still, it's a tough situation and it's the ATP that created it, not the players. I would bet that 90 percent of the players didn't know.

The rule just presents too many potential problems. Imagine if, for instance, JMDP and Korolev were good friends and the same set of circumstances occurred, except JMPD wasn't really having any medical problems other than perhaps exhaustion, but felt that there was no way he could win. Then he decides to withdraw, effectively getting his friend into the quarterfinals and denying the other guy the chance even though he was playing the match he needed to play to advance. The rules should not leave openings for that kind of strategizing.

JRstriker12
03-02-2007, 08:52 AM
Here's the inside story from tennis mag. http://tennisworld.typepad.com/travelblogue/

The ATP basically put Blake in a bad postion - as Safin says in the tennis mag piece linked above. If he turns down the advance, he basically messes over the tourney direcotrs who paid his $300,000 appreance fee, if he accepts, then he looks bad.

Personally, I am a bit disappointed in Blake, that he didn't turn down the offer to go through the the QF - it would have been beyind classy and a great show of sports man ship in the face of a serious screw-up by the ATP. But then again, what pro tennis player in their right mind would want to do advance to the next round of any tournament?

Really the ATP needs to either fix this problem or bannish the round robin format. TO make matters worse, the recently happened at another ATP event.

FWIW - Korolev did receive $11,000 even tough he was bumped from the draw.

dubsplayer
03-02-2007, 08:52 AM
Shut your pie hole idiot, it's not the players fault. Also, do you think any of these players give a crap if some imbecile posters from these boards has lose respect for him?

GFY.

I'm sure they don't care, so what?

malakas
03-02-2007, 08:55 AM
Here's the inside story from tennis mag. http://tennisworld.typepad.com/travelblogue/

The ATP basically put Blake in a bad postion - as Safin says in the tennis mag piece linked above. If he turns down the advance, he basically messes over the tourney direcotrs who paid his $300,000 appreance fee, if he accepts, then he looks bad.

Personally, I am a bit disappointed in Blake, that he didn't turn down the offer to go through the the QF - it would have been beyind classy and a great show of sports man ship in the face of a serious screw-up by the ATP. But then again, what pro tennis player in their right mind would want to do advance to the next round of any tournament?

Really the ATP needs to either fix this problem or bannish the round robin format. TO make matters worse, the recently happened at another ATP event.

FWIW - Korolev did receive $11,000 even tough he was bumped from the draw.

yeah don't victimise now Blake.He's the one who advanced taking Korolev's rightfull place.:roll:
And did you read his interview?He just tries to suck up to DeVil liers.

Korolev wasn't granted any ATP points.They just tried to shut him up with some money.Isn't it strange that "he wasn't available for a comment" ? :roll:

Feña14
03-02-2007, 08:55 AM
Round Robin's are rubbish at the best of times but now they do this?

You can't blame Blake for taking it but it is unfair on Korolev, especially after Korolev beat Blake in the Round Robin.

I guess Blake is what the fans want to see (not me personally, i'd prefer to see the youngster Korolev) so that's why the ATP did it.

You have to ask yourself the question; if it was Korolev who had missed out because of Del Potro retiring, would the ATP of done the same thing for him?

I think not!

tintin
03-02-2007, 08:56 AM
what kind of rubbish thing is that?:mad:
the spot should have gone to Korolev breathing problems or not
the ATP is rubbish to award the spot to Blake cause he sure as hell doesn't deserve it
I hope he gets bounced next round

malakas
03-02-2007, 08:57 AM
Fena that's exactly what Safin said too.

EuroMagnum
03-02-2007, 08:57 AM
It's perfectly fair. It's not Blake's fault that the other guy had breathing problems and couldn't continue. I think this rule really needs to be re-written, because as it is, if you didn't want someone to continue in the tournament all you have to do is play them and retire and they're out.

dubsplayer
03-02-2007, 08:57 AM
"TO make matters worse, the recently happened at another ATP event."

Yes it did but nothing was done in the middle of BsAs to change that result. This smacks of favoritism to an American player playing in an American tourney.

If it was Korolov who was playing JMdP - does anyone in their right mind think the rule would have been reversed?

Condoleezza
03-02-2007, 08:58 AM
Reuters, The Associated PressPublished: March 2, 2007

TENNIS

The defending champion James Blake was handed a quarter-final berth at the Las Vegas Open after the ATP reversed a quirk in the rules of its new round-robin format that had seen him ousted in bizarre fashion.

Needing to beat the Argentine Juan Martín del Potro on Thursday with the loss of no more than five games to advance to the quarter-final, Blake, the top seed, was leading, 6-1, 3-1, when his opponent retired because of breathing problems, handing the American a walkover.

However, Blake was then told he would not advance as the rules said that games won or lost in a walkover did not count. His place would go to Evgeny Korolev on a head-to-head basis after the Russian beat Blake earlier in the competition. After lengthy discussions, however, the ATP backtracked and awarded Blake a place in the final eight. (Reuters)

Safin and Hewitt have spoken out and are furious. Korolev has learned his first lesson about how the ATP works. Blake thinks it's fair.

Who here thinks they did the right/wrong thing?

Blake is American, no?
And where is Las Vegas .... ?
Hmmm .....
;)

Enuff said.


Condi

dmitat
03-02-2007, 08:59 AM
Korolev has to sue ATP!!! He has same amount of sets as Blake and 18 games against Blake's 15. If Blake - DP would continue play no one knows what would happen. He could twist his ankle or something else... Blake was lucky enough to get a second chance to get back into the tournament with this new format.
If ATP came up with its rules they have to be punished for breaking them. And Korolev should be awarded QF points and prise money as no one is going to stop Blake from playing now. They already sold all possible advertisement and stadium seats on his name. ATP would keep him there even if they would need to put him on life support.

malakas
03-02-2007, 09:00 AM
It's perfectly fair. It's not Blake's fault that the other guy had breathing problems and couldn't continue. I think this rule really needs to be re-written, because as it is, if you didn't want someone to continue in the tournament all you have to do is play them and retire and they're out.

I think you didn't understand the situation.
Bottom line:According to the rules Korolev should advance but Blake with the help of the ATP stole his place.

dubsplayer
03-02-2007, 09:00 AM
It's perfectly fair. It's not Blake's fault that the other guy had breathing problems and couldn't continue. I think this rule really needs to be re-written, because as it is, if you didn't want someone to continue in the tournament all you have to do is play them and retire and they're out.

Yes, the rule needs to be re-written ( though in all likely rr is going to be binned) but you don't re-write a rule in the middle of a tournament!

vive le beau jeu !
03-02-2007, 09:01 AM
I'm a huge Blake fan, but I think it's unfair to Korolev. The rules are what they are, and if they need to be changed, in the middle of a tournament is not the time to do it. Unfortunately, I also think the rule itself is unfair,although to a lesser extent. Apparently JMDP was also unaware of the rule and stated yesterday, that had he known, he would have just played out the match seeing as it was almost over anyway. In a case like this where the outcome of a tournament turns on so many variables, perhaps the tournament officials should have notified the players of all the possible consequences in a more proactive way? Granted it's the probably the player's responsibility to familiarize themselves with the rules, but still, it's a tough situation and it's the ATP that created it, not the players. I would bet that 90 percent of the players didn't know.

The rule just presents too many potential problems. Imagine if, for instance, JMDP and Korolev were good friends and the same set of circumstances occurred, except JMPD wasn't really having any medical problems other than perhaps exhaustion, but felt that there was no way he could win. Then he decides to withdraw, effectively getting his friend into the quarterfinals and denying the other guy the chance even though he was playing the match he needed to play to advance. The rules should not leave openings for that kind of strategizing.
i agree with most of what you've said.
excepted for one point : "90 % of the players didn't know".
according to what hewitt said, most of the players knew.

Hewitt said he and several other players had been told the rule by the ATP before del Potro's withdrawal.
"Me and a few other guys were sitting in the players lounge watching the match. We said, 'is there any way that Korolev gets though?' And they said, 'if del Potro withdraws'. Even on TV they were saying it, so everyone was aware of the rule."The rules are in place -- you can't do anything about that. So that's why I'm a little bit gobsmacked. It really is amazing."see : http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=120999&page=2#39

they created an ankward and unacceptable situation... and they made it even worse by changing the rules in the middle of the tournament, instead of applying the rules, admitting their system purely sucks, learning the lesson and changing it before it happens again in another tournament.

it's tennis, not circus.

The Grand Slam
03-02-2007, 09:02 AM
Safin and Hewitt have spoken out and are furious. Korolev has learned his first lesson about how the ATP works. Blake thinks it's fair.

I just lost whatever tiny, miniscule speck of respect I had for Blake.

MasterTS
03-02-2007, 09:03 AM
Shame on your blakey.. hope you drop out of the top 10 and land yourself back finishining school in harvard.

AsgerHO
03-02-2007, 09:14 AM
It´s absurd! i can´t belive it happened. But hey well, Blake is american, Las vegas is in the US, what can you expect.

Check the RR thread as well, the poll thread, I have mentioned it there as well

tuk
03-02-2007, 09:15 AM
That's why round robin format is such a joke...Blake should have been out when he lost to Korolev to begin with if it wasn't for the round robin format...
you win then you advance (no mather how did you do it, or how many games you lost in the process), you lose then you're out, that's the way it has always been and that's the way it should be....
I don't really pay attention to what goes on in joke tournaments, but now that you mention it....what Blake should do is go to tournaments that real men play, like Dubai, Acapulco or even some NO ROUND ROBIN Challenger:grin:....just kidding....but still round robin sucks....

Heavy Metal Tennis Star
03-02-2007, 09:17 AM
i dont care if its fair or unfair, ITS WRONG, the round robin crap does not fair well with tennis, jsut to show how the tennis channel is a big joke.

malakas
03-02-2007, 09:17 AM
if you agree that the ATP should get rid of RR,sign this petition.
http://www.petitiononline.com/nomorerr/petition.html

sureshs
03-02-2007, 09:26 AM
if you agree that the ATP should get rid of RR,sign this petition.
http://www.petitiononline.com/nomorerr/petition.html

Done.........

Ash Doyle
03-02-2007, 09:26 AM
Changing the rules in the middle of a tournament to make the tournament directors happy kills the integrity of the sport big time. This is a major knock against ATP tennis.

It's a bad situation for Blake, but it does lower my opinion of him a little if accepts the quaterfinal like this. He's in a bad situation...damned if he does, damned if he doesn't; but I'd like to think in the same situation I would be a better sportsman and do the fair thing.

sureshs
03-02-2007, 09:26 AM
if you agree that the ATP should get rid of RR,sign this petition.
http://www.petitiononline.com/nomorerr/petition.html

Why don't you create a thread for that and post the link? More people will know about it.

malakas
03-02-2007, 09:28 AM
ok good idea.:)

sureshs
03-02-2007, 09:31 AM
Too much at stake here for TTC. Attendance and viewership would strongly depend on Blake going thru.

As someone pointed out, the fact that he is American must have played a role. When the Bryans found their careers in jeopardy, they sued the ATP, which then settled for lesser changes. The case against the ATP was pretty sketchy - something about financial wrongdoing. The governing board has every right to do whatever they want, actually. Rumor is that the Bryans threatened to expose the appearance fees for singles players. Also, they got US heavyweights like JMac and Martina on their side.

As far as Korolev goes, he probably gave up his rights to sue if he verbally agreed to do so in exchange for more money. There would be witnesses to the verbal conversation.

malakas
03-02-2007, 09:37 AM
I don't think that Korolev was so easily persuaded.Not according to what Hewitt said anyway.But James Blake was quick to state that Eugeny a nice guy and wouldn't mind because that was commonsense (to him!) what happened and that he would probably be on his way to IW by now!:rolleyes: And that not going deep into a tournament wouldn't hurt Korolev since he would have plenty of chances to get deep in many tournaments in the future!:roll:

Blake,keeps falling lower and lower in my eyes.I guess Spadea was right about him.

Green
03-02-2007, 09:38 AM
If you read the statement made by the ATP ceo carefully, it seems Del Potro's statement that he could have finished the match played an important part in the ATP's decision. If he had just kept quiet, I believe Korolev would be advancing. However, by saying he was capable of continuing to play, he basically forced the ATP into a corner by raising the fear of the very situation the ATP most wants to avoid: a player losing or retiring on purpose for the benefit of another player.

I understand why people here are upset but I don't understand why no one criticizes Del Potro for retiring from a match he was able to continue. To me, this is just as big a deal because it also calls into question the integrity of the sport.

MasterTS
03-02-2007, 09:39 AM
Blake,keeps falling lower and lower in my eyes.I guess Spadea was right about him.

Hey sweetie, what did spadea say about blakey!

malakas
03-02-2007, 09:42 AM
Oh pleaseee what he was going to say??That he would stop playing anyway so that Blake would disqualify??It's extremely ridiculous that they try to pull unefficient explanations as a reason for this shame!
Not only did Blake know about this,since he was the VC of the players council,the same council that had signed these same rules!But he also had already played in previous RR tournies!And everyone knew about this rule as Hewitt said.They mentioned it even in the TV all the time.

Besides since when ignorance of the laws negates any wrongdoing??:roll:

malakas
03-02-2007, 09:43 AM
Hey sweetie, what did spadea say about blakey!

he said he was a scum.I haven't read his book though he has more details there.

sureshs
03-02-2007, 09:45 AM
If you read the statement made by the ATP ceo carefully, it seems Del Potro's statement that he could have finished the match played an important part in the ATP's decision. If he had just kept quiet, I believe Korolev would be advancing. However, by saying he was capable of continuing to play, he basically forced the ATP into a corner by raising the fear of the very situation the ATP most wants to avoid: a player losing or retiring on purpose for the benefit of another player.

I understand why people here are upset but I don't understand why no one criticizes Del Potro for retiring from a match he was able to continue. To me, this is just as big a deal because it also calls into question the integrity of the sport.

You are right. But Del Potro is a nobody and who exactly knows how sick/injured he was? On the other hand, the ATP CEO and TTC TDs are rich and powerful guys, and so people's attention falls on them. Their decision is much more far-reaching that one player faking it or not.

sureshs
03-02-2007, 09:49 AM
Blake,keeps falling lower and lower in my eyes.I guess Spadea was right about him.

I think every competitive, successful person is like that, to be honest.

Read the accounts of sandbagging and cheating in 3.5/4.0 leagues and you will see how people behave even when there is no financial gain.

All these guys came thru the junior ranks, where it is parents and children cheating at all costs. Then come the satellites, challengers and futures, where it is make or break, but no money. That kind of mentality is hard to forgo overnite.

And outwardly they have to pretend to be nice guys, as that is what the press and sponsors want these days - role models for kids, playing charities, etc.

Shaolin
03-02-2007, 09:50 AM
A win is a win, so Blake actually deserves to be in the QF, but you cant just change the rules, however stupid they are, mid tournament. Korolev should have been let through, with the rules being changed AFTER the tournament is over.

Better yet, how about just get rid of the round robin format altogether.

Green
03-02-2007, 09:53 AM
Oh pleaseee what he was going to say??That he would stop playing anyway so that Blake would disqualify??It's extremely ridiculous that they try to pull unefficient explanations as a reason for this shame!
Not only did Blake know about this,since he was the VC of the players council,the same council that had signed these same rules!But he also had already played in previous RR tournies!And everyone knew about this rule as Hewitt said.They mentioned it even in the TV all the time.

Besides since when ignorance of the laws negates any wrongdoing??:roll:

I'm not sure I understand your point. My point is that Del Potro basically admitted retiring from a match he could have continued and in the process eliminated the player (Blake) who more than likely would have anvanced under the rules. How is the ATP supposed to tolerate this?

malakas
03-02-2007, 09:53 AM
I think every competitive, successful person is like that, to be honest.

Read the accounts of sandbagging and cheating in 3.5/4.0 leagues and you will see how people behave even when there is no financial gain.

All these guys came thru the junior ranks, where it is parents and children cheating at all costs. Then come the satellites, challengers and futures, where it is make or break, but no money. That kind of mentality is hard to forgo overnite.

And outwardly they have to pretend to be nice guys, as that is what the press and sponsors want these days - role models for kids, playing charities, etc.

yes you are right.One of the few good things that can come out of this,is actually that Blake has fallen from his saint pedestal and been revealed to all the fans and his fellow players.No more mr congressman nice guy James!

malakas
03-02-2007, 09:55 AM
wahahahahhahahhaaaaaaaa they have changed their minds again!Blake is out
Omg!hahahahah

sureshs
03-02-2007, 09:55 AM
Blake should give 50% of whatever he makes from now on in the tourney (minus tennis-related expenses) to Korolev.

GRANITECHIEF
03-02-2007, 10:04 AM
Go Sam!!!!!!!

Supernatural_Serve
03-02-2007, 10:19 AM
There are rules, and then there are rules for "special" people.

Way to go Blake, way to show all the fans and kids

- the meaning of sportsmanship
- how to take anything you can get
- and how rules mean nothing

What a degenerate low life.

deucecourt
03-02-2007, 10:21 AM
No way is it fair to the Russian. However I think delPotro tanked on purpose trailing 3-1 in the second set so Blake wouldn't advance.

Nick Irons
03-02-2007, 10:21 AM
It is kind of weird he would take the walkover; what a betch

ATXtennisaddict
03-02-2007, 10:22 AM
And THAT is why RR SUCKS BALLS

Everytime ppl ask Blake (ATP council president) "what do you think of the RR format" he answers with "if the fans are happy then we should adapt to it etC"

I always think "you're so f-ing stupid."

vive le beau jeu !
03-02-2007, 10:32 AM
we already knew it !
i see that the anti-RR movement is gaining some new members !!! ;)

compañeros y compañeras, here is our most dangerous enemy :
http://images.supersport.co.za/de_villiers_ettienne001s.JPG
watch out, don't be seduced by his sweet smile... this evil guy is the leader of the dark side : he is responsible for the round-robin idea !!!

MasterTS
03-02-2007, 10:36 AM
he said he was a scum.I haven't read his book though he has more details there.
Wow really? Spadea said blake was a scum in his book?

Well scum or not he banged a hot chica in jEnnifer Schole, who of course just wanted a meal ticket.. But what guy wouldnt..

malakas
03-02-2007, 10:41 AM
I'm not sure I understand your point. My point is that Del Potro basically admitted retiring from a match he could have continued and in the process eliminated the player (Blake) who more than likely would have anvanced under the rules. How is the ATP supposed to tolerate this?

almost any player after an injury can stay in the courts for a few more minutes.It's only in very serious situations that they have quickly to leave the court and retire.
Juan Marin did the right thing and took care of himself,because he didn't look very good out there.It was Blake business to finish the match in time before his injured opponed couldn't last any longer.
And again what was supposed Juan Marin to say?No,I wouldn't stay and play more because I wanted Blake to disqualify..?:rolleyes:.

And the ATP shouldn't tolerate any of this crap if it didn't make any of this sily rules in thefirst place.BUT now they are made,so if you don't change it at least play by them!!

vkartikv
03-02-2007, 10:46 AM
who do people want to watch - blake or korolev? there's your answer.
GET RID of the round robin format!! This is not the world cup

sureshs
03-02-2007, 10:46 AM
Is any player supporting Blake? Both the players who spoke against yesterday's decision (Safin and Hewitt) are not from the US. Are any of his buddies supporting him (Roddick, Fish, Ginepri, Spadea etc)? Well, not maybe Spadea.

malakas
03-02-2007, 10:50 AM
I don't know if Roddick would support Blake.Safin said that he will make sure to tell everyone in the players meeting and ppl like Federer and Roddick will be there and get furious about this.

sureshs
03-02-2007, 10:50 AM
who do people want to watch - blake or korolev? there's your answer.


Korolev?....

tintin
03-02-2007, 10:54 AM
Is any player supporting Blake? Both the players who spoke against yesterday's decision (Safin and Hewitt) are not from the US. Are any of his buddies supporting him (Roddick, Fish, Ginepri, Spadea etc)? Well, not maybe Spadea.

so this is about favoristism huh?:confused:
do you really think that they would have dared done that to Federer who happends to be a foreigner just like the players you've mentioned as examples of players who came out against this stupid rule(and might I remind you are GRAND SLAM winners compared to jack sh1t from Blake)?:confused:
what makes you think that roddick would have supported that crap RR and take Blake's side just because he's a fellow american?:confused:

sureshs
03-02-2007, 10:58 AM
so this is about favoristism huh?:confused:


I am confused too. By your post.

vive le beau jeu !
03-02-2007, 10:59 AM
I don't know if Roddick would support Blake.Safin said that he will make sure to tell everyone in the players meeting and ppl like Federer and Roddick will be there and get furious about this.
right, and it's not a question of supporting blake or not !

i'm curious to listen to james, now that he really knows the implications such a decision would mean.
i'd like to think that he finds it normal to apply the rules (even if they suck).

on the other hand, he can be angry with mr.mafia-mickey for this fake hope...
so extra prize-money for him too ?... come on, this is Xmas at las vegas !!! and don't forget del potro... ;)

bebots
03-02-2007, 11:01 AM
It's a bizarre situation. Strange rules. I agree it's not fair to Korolev.

But then again, why is it fair to Blake if del Potro or whoever the opponent is retires? Then Blake is out? Blake has no control over that situation.

Blake and Korolev should play a tie-break or something, to decide who moves forward.

tintin
03-02-2007, 11:01 AM
I am confused too. By your post.

fact is,it's not sure his fellow americans would have supported this ruling giving him a free pass to a tournament qfs,get me now?
oh well the atp did the right thing
one less fan for Blake,that's for sure

MasterTS
03-02-2007, 11:04 AM
But then again, why is it fair to Blake if del Potro or whoever the opponent is retires? Then Blake is out? Blake has no control over that situation.

He does have control over his match vs Korolev. He lost so he should be out.

Since del potro withdrew they should void all his matches in the RR as well.. That clearly puts korolev at 100% wins and sets won. He is entitled to the QF.

vive le beau jeu !
03-02-2007, 11:04 AM
It's a bizarre situation. Strange rules. I agree it's not fair to Korolev.

But then again, why is it fair to Blake if del Potro or whoever the opponent is retires? Then Blake is out? Blake has no control over that situation.

Blake and Korolev should play a tie-break or something, to decide who moves forward.
man, we're in las vegas !!!
let's make them play poker or blackjack ! ;)

gully
03-02-2007, 11:09 AM
Tandon's blog is thoughtful. What a mess for the ATP. I agree completely that there's no easy decision to make, as the rule and the system are horribly flawed. But the event made a mistake in sending Blake through and chaning the rules midtournament. The right thing to do would have been to abide by the rules made, admit that they're flawed and wrong, and try to change them as immediately as possible.

It would have been better for Blake in the long run, too, to accept such a ruling and to work for change, rather than to benefit unfairly from a reversed decision like this.

sureshs
03-02-2007, 11:10 AM
fact is,it's not sure his fellow americans would have supported this ruling giving him a free pass to a tournament qfs,get me now?
oh well the atp did the right thing
one less fan for Blake,that's for sure

Nobody seems to be supporting Blake.

EuroMagnum
03-02-2007, 12:11 PM
Ok I don't know if i'm understanding this right because everyone seems to think it's unfair -- Blake was up 6-1 6-3 right? That gave him 9 games to 4 when Korolev retired. The rules said that in order to advance, the player had to have won by 5 games. 9 minus 4 is 5.

How on earth is this unfair? Why would Blake be eliminated if Korolev had breathing problems? He met the requirements.. somehow I think i'm not seeing this right, can someone explain?

MasterTS
03-02-2007, 12:15 PM
Ok I don't know if i'm understanding this right because everyone seems to think it's unfair -- Blake was up 6-1 6-3 right? That gave him 9 games to 4 when Korolev retired. The rules said that in order to advance, the player had to have won by 5 games. 9 minus 4 is 5.

How on earth is this unfair? Why would Blake be eliminated if Korolev had breathing problems? He met the requirements.. somehow I think i'm not seeing this right, can someone explain?


You are one confused man.

oscar_2424
03-02-2007, 12:16 PM
U mean del Potro not Korolev.

dubsplayer
03-02-2007, 12:19 PM
Ok I don't know if i'm understanding this right because everyone seems to think it's unfair -- Blake was up 6-1 6-3 right? That gave him 9 games to 4 when Korolev retired. The rules said that in order to advance, the player had to have won by 5 games. 9 minus 4 is 5.

How on earth is this unfair? Why would Blake be eliminated if Korolev had breathing problems? He met the requirements.. somehow I think i'm not seeing this right, can someone explain?

Because the score was 6-1-3-1 and it was JMdP who retired.

rmsblue
03-02-2007, 12:28 PM
this episode takes another bizarre twist.., makes the CEO look like an amateur, whose judgment can be unreliable

from TENNIS.COM:

Korolev and not Blake will play in the Las Vegas quarterfinals after the ATP reversed its decision (see below) granting a place to Blake yesterday. The ATP issued this statement:

The relevant rule states that an incomplete match shall not count as a match played for the retiring player. This eliminated del Potro based on the tiebreak procedure for greatest number of completed matches and left only Blake and Korolev tied with 1-1 records. Therefore, under ATP rules Korolev should have advanced having beaten Blake in their round robin encounter.

The same ATP Rulebook prevents the ATP Chairman and President or any ATP staff member from making a judgment call on the rules, as no variation can be implemented without ATP Board approval. The rules state that the final decision at a tournament rests solely with the ATP Supervisor.

"I was contacted late at night my time and did not fully understand the issues being discussed and I made a judgment call on what seemed fair. However I understand that judgment calls are not part of the rule book and I must abide by the rules, as must everybody else in the circumstance," de Villiers said.

'This is of course an unpleasant situation for all involved, but we must abide strictly by the rules. I apologize to James for giving false hope and to Evgeny for the confusion. I said we would be prepared to make mistakes but that we would reverse them if necessary and learn from them."

"I hope that it is recognized that I acted in good faith and my intentions were to do the right thing and see fairness prevail. Clearly, I was wrong to intervene. I have always maintained that we should experiment with new and different ideas and it was with this in mind that I made what I thought was a fair call."

The Gorilla
03-02-2007, 02:44 PM
http://www.tennis.com/news/ticker.aspx#RRrulingII

Korolev and not Blake will play in the Las Vegas quarterfinals after the ATP reversed its decision (see below) granting a place to Blake yesterday. The ATP issued this statement:

The relevant rule states that an incomplete match shall not count as a match played for the retiring player. This eliminated del Potro based on the tiebreak procedure for greatest number of completed matches and left only Blake and Korolev tied with 1-1 records. Therefore, under ATP rules Korolev should have advanced having beaten Blake in their round robin encounter.

The same ATP Rulebook prevents the ATP Chairman and President or any ATP staff member from making a judgment call on the rules, as no variation can be implemented without ATP Board approval. The rules state that the final decision at a tournament rests solely with the ATP Supervisor.

"I was contacted late at night my time and did not fully understand the issues being discussed and I made a judgment call on what seemed fair. However I understand that judgment calls are not part of the rule book and I must abide by the rules, as must everybody else in the circumstance," de Villiers said.

'This is of course an unpleasant situation for all involved, but we must abide strictly by the rules. I apologize to James for giving false hope and to Evgeny for the confusion. I said we would be prepared to make mistakes but that we would reverse them if necessary and learn from them."

"I hope that it is recognized that I acted in good faith and my intentions were to do the right thing and see fairness prevail. Clearly, I was wrong to intervene. I have always maintained that we should experiment with new and different ideas and it was with this in mind that I made what I thought was a fair call."

Colpo
03-02-2007, 03:09 PM
This is a major blow to Blake. He was totally outplayed the other night by Korolev. He played as though he believed the 'with RR, you're never out of it' drivel. He put himself in a position of having to crush yesterday's opponent in order to advance, and his opponent's illness almost allowed that to happen. He fails to defend his title, fails to even quarter in the week's 2nd tier event, fails to keep the rankings points. Korolev deserves this, if anyone does. Can't wait to hear what the TTC's two homers, Shiras and MacKay, have to say about this, since they thought that Blake being bumped into the QF yesterday was the best, most fair result. Lesson: show up more for your matches against the tour's Korolevs.

finky
03-02-2007, 03:36 PM
I agree. It was also very disappointing that Blake , a guy who is seemingly very intelligent and fair , went along with the initial decision . He will need to do some work to restore his reputation .

If that had happened to Korolev the organisers would have sent him straight to the airport . It's disgusting, and Safin was right to voice his anger , along with Hewitt .

Etienne De Villiers has a showbiz background and perhaps this incident demonstrates that he does not quite grasp the balance between the spirit of competition and the need to entertain . Experience suggests he is just a pretentious windbag who likes the sound ofhis own voice .

EuroMagnum
03-02-2007, 03:41 PM
Sorry i'm still not getting it... Blake was up 9-2 when the other guy retired, which gives him a 7 game lead. In order to advance you need 5 games, which he had. So....?

christos_liaskos
03-02-2007, 04:01 PM
I agree. It was also very disappointing that Blake , a guy who is seemingly very intelligent and fair , went along with the initial decision . He will need to do some work to restore his reputation .

If that had happened to Korolev the organisers would have sent him straight to the airport . It's disgusting, and Safin was right to voice his anger , along with Hewitt .

Etienne De Villiers has a showbiz background and perhaps this incident demonstrates that he does not quite grasp the balance between the spirit of competition and the need to entertain . Experience suggests he is just a pretentious windbag who likes the sound ofhis own voice .

There clearly has been a big mistake made and De Villiers has admitted that. To have someone with a showbiz and marketing background is and excellent way to bring tennis to more people. Atleast he is trying to make tennis a bigger sport. We could just put someone in the job, who is from tennis but doesnt dare to change a thing. How forward thinking is that? De Villiers has some guts and is willing to make so mistakes and he recognises that tennis as a package is not been marketed to its potential.

vive le beau jeu !
03-02-2007, 04:39 PM
There clearly has been a big mistake made and De Villiers has admitted that. To have someone with a showbiz and marketing background is and excellent way to bring tennis to more people. Atleast he is trying to make tennis a bigger sport. We could just put someone in the job, who is from tennis but doesnt dare to change a thing. How forward thinking is that? De Villiers has some guts and is willing to make so mistakes and he recognises that tennis as a package is not been marketed to its potential.
come on, don't give him excuses !
he's paid millions for that...

so he dared... but he went too far and ridiculously failed !
now, if he still has some pride, it's time for him to leave before players lapidate him with tennis balls. ;)

thanks for the link. :)
is there another petition for firing Mr. Mafia-Mickey ?
i would love to sign that.
this guy has gone to far, seriously... he's sacrificing tennis' integrity only for making his little business.

Heavy Metal Tennis Star
03-02-2007, 04:48 PM
Fire Mr Mickey!!!!!

Nastase
03-02-2007, 05:02 PM
spadea did not call Blake scum, they had a disagreement on court..read the book pls for accuracy

The Grand Slam
03-02-2007, 06:16 PM
OMFG! Korolev WON!

MasterTS
03-02-2007, 07:55 PM
Dear James,

How bout next time you enter a tournament, just dont get beaten/hammered/cooked by another player. You won't have to rely on rules and round robin technicalities to get you through the tournament.

Be a man, just win... or lose and leave!

Sincerely,
TwistServe

Fedexeon
03-02-2007, 11:00 PM
WHAT? This is ridiculous man. It wasn't that HIM who told the ATP Chairman to let him through anyway. Now he's eliminated since the chairman reversed his decision.

SoBad
03-02-2007, 11:08 PM
Be a man, just win... or lose and leave!

P.S. Or just retire now, before you get whistled off the courts for your shameful act in LV.

M J
03-03-2007, 12:21 AM
Give him a break. This whole fiasco was not his fault at all. I feel kind of sorry for him. He looks bad just because people are making up rules in his favor, then he doesn't even get the benefit of it. Plus, wouldn't it just be upsetting if you were eliminated from a tournament because your opponent quits while you are stomping on him?

Polaris
03-03-2007, 01:17 AM
Whoa, this is harsh stuff man. I´m not a Blake fan but I think he´s getting a raw deal. I thought in his press conference he had a valid argument and who are we to crucify him for his personal opinion? He has a right to say what he thought and felt about the tournament teasing him and then pulling the rug out from under him. Looking back he was 3 games away from advancing and was initially through, but the directors realized (a day later) that because Del Potro retired Blake was techincally eliminated. The RR has the right idea in letting the fans see their player but for the wrong reasons (money). This whole RR thing is stupid and pointless, just like federerfanatics posts. As much as I would love to join the horde with knocking Blake, I cut him some slack on this one. Anyone else would have said the same thing he did.

For once, we agree. Totally.

Duzza
03-03-2007, 01:28 AM
Can someone please explain the situation to me...

I thought the rule was that if a player retires, the other player wins the match based on what the score would have been...

equinox
03-03-2007, 02:23 AM
The public are bashing james because he's a player representative and should have known better than to stiff another player.

So much for his MR.Nice guy image, james knows money is everything $$$ in lalala vegas.

finky
03-03-2007, 03:56 AM
I agree that tennis needs better marketing , but it needs integrity more . De Villiers decision was clouded too much by the 'showbiz' aspect of his thinking and is a sign that he is not neccessarily the right man for the job.

I think he is more WWF than ATP.

pound cat
03-03-2007, 04:41 AM
[QUOTE=rmsblue;1287923]this episode takes another bizarre twist.., makes the CEO look like an amateur, whose judgment can be unreliable


.....which is exactly what he is...an amateur. deVilliers has no background in tennis and knows nothing about tennis. He's a CEO...a business man.

Fedexeon
03-03-2007, 04:47 AM
Stop bashing this poor and innocent James Blake.

slice bh compliment
03-03-2007, 05:04 AM
Blake's Q rating?
Korolev's Q rating?

Vegas? Hmmmm.

This is a recipe for disaster.

Round Robin format?
Free publicity from a gaffe...and a quick correction?

Korolev will be famous by Friday.

Winning fair and square is the only way to win. James is not a bad sport. He will clear his name. His agent will make sure of that. So will his publicist. This will take a maximum of two weeks.

James probably thinks he would have won 1 and 2 or 1 and 1. Wouldn't you think that?

In retiring, Del Potro is basically defaulting the remaining games. That is how I see it. However, I do believe the ATP should have stuck to the rule, even though the walkover rule is *****. Not to mention RR.....which is a whole 'nother conversation.

Lambsscroll
03-03-2007, 06:02 AM
I think they bent the rules because this is a walkover from a match that was already in motion. If the walkover was from someone who couldn't even play in the match to start with than it would be different.

4brotherdrive
03-03-2007, 06:05 AM
Don't blame James, blame round-robin!

slice bh compliment
03-03-2007, 06:22 AM
Whoa, this is harsh stuff man...

Yeah, it's totally harshing my mell.

slice bh compliment
03-03-2007, 06:22 AM
...I´m not a Blake fan but I think he´s getting a raw deal. I thought in his press conference he had a valid argument and who are we to crucify him for his personal opinion? He has a right to say what he thought and felt about the tournament teasing him and then pulling the rug out from under him. Looking back he was 3 games away from advancing and was initially through, but the directors realized (a day later) that because Del Potro retired Blake was techincally eliminated. The RR has the right idea in letting the fans see their player but for the wrong reasons (money). ....

Excellent points. Well said, Moz.

Cfidave
03-03-2007, 06:32 AM
Blake won his match without losing more then 5 games. That is what he had to do, and he did it. The rest is BS.

slice bh compliment
03-03-2007, 06:55 AM
I do sort of see why they had that walkover rule. It must be so guys who are basically eliminated do not just tank to help a friend out.
That rule needs to be tweaked. Maybe award the rest of the games to the victor in the case of a second set retirement.

You can't really justify RR's unless you've got all the rules set up perfectly.

mica
03-04-2007, 08:43 AM
In James' defense, he didn't create the problem, he just went out there and played the match he had to play. He created a difficult position for himself by losing the first match and his score more than compensated in his second. I wasn't thrilled by his initial comments either, but his opinion didn't change the outcome of the situation. To be fair, after the decision was reversed and Korolev was advanced to the quarters, James had a change of heart and said that Korolev deserved to go through (http://sport.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-6453464,00.html).
"After hearing all the reasons...I completely understand the rule," said Blake. "Evgeny deserves to be in the quarter-finals.
He certainly could have remained quiet and not said that, or continued to complain about how bad the rule is. Instead, he basically stated that his first opinion was wrong.

I'm pretty sure James Blake doesn't eat babies, so let's not treat him like he does.

10sfreak
03-04-2007, 08:47 AM
Reuters, The Associated PressPublished: March 2, 2007

TENNIS

The defending champion James Blake was handed a quarter-final berth at the Las Vegas Open after the ATP reversed a quirk in the rules of its new round-robin format that had seen him ousted in bizarre fashion.

Needing to beat the Argentine Juan Martín del Potro on Thursday with the loss of no more than five games to advance to the quarter-final, Blake, the top seed, was leading, 6-1, 3-1, when his opponent retired because of breathing problems, handing the American a walkover.

However, Blake was then told he would not advance as the rules said that games won or lost in a walkover did not count. His place would go to Evgeny Korolev on a head-to-head basis after the Russian beat Blake earlier in the competition. After lengthy discussions, however, the ATP backtracked and awarded Blake a place in the final eight. (Reuters)

Safin and Hewitt have spoken out and are furious. Korolev has learned his first lesson about how the ATP works. Blake thinks it's fair.

Who here thinks they did the right/wrong thing?
I'm not a Blake fan, but I think the rule sucked in the first place. Why penalize Blake when he was well on his way to a victory? On the other hand, the rules in place at the time should have been followed, and Blake should have been ousted. No matter how unfair it seemed/was. However, the rules need to be fixed for the future.

Oricus
03-04-2007, 10:07 AM
You people kill me, how was this really fair to Blake.

He needed to advance by not dropping more than 5 games. so at 6-1 3-1 his opponent Retires.

I don't know why the rules don't state that if a person retires in match they should tack on the rest of the score. They should do this for provisional reasons such as these. How is it fair to Blake that he was 3 wins away from going to the next round and that his opponent retires? Is that fair that he can't go because at any moment his opponent retires before the conclusion it doesn't Count?

No sir, I don't see how the rules are being very fair. Just because they are the rules doesn't make it right.

They probably should have changed this after the tournament, but it is wrong to deny Blake because he was taking care of business and his opponent retires.

You know what I say, Too bad for Potro and the Russian. 6-1 should be the final score line due to retiring. Blake should get credit for the set it's not his fault his opponent retired before the match ended. I don't see how any of you can hold that against Blake. It was a bad position but I really doubt any of you would of done anything different.

Honestly people, tell me from Blake's perspective you were beating down an opponent about to win dropping less than 5 games and your opponent retires. Now how would you feel that know you were likely going to qualify for the next round and your opponent up and quits. How is that fair to Blake? You make Blake out to be evil because he accepted to go to the quaterfinals when if Potro didn't quit he would of likely made.

RR needs to go but come on people think.

malakas
03-04-2007, 10:15 AM
This rule exists Oricus,because if it didn't,then the retired player could actually go through.

For example,IF Del Potro had retired with 7-5 3-1 and that rule didn't existed then he would go through.The reason for that rule is that players have to play the whole match and not retire after they have already qualified to the next round trying to preserve their strength.

And NOTHING justifies the change of rules midtournament.NOT even that the rules were unfair.Isn't it ironic that the same rules were imposed in the first to protect the biggest stars?:rolleyes:

slice bh compliment
03-04-2007, 12:05 PM
.....I'm pretty sure James Blake doesn't eat babies, so let's not treat him like he does.

Baby. The otherr, otherr white meat.