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View Full Version : If you were Blake, what would you have done?


sureshs
03-02-2007, 10:12 AM
Vote in the poll

vkartikv
03-02-2007, 10:16 AM
Aren't the rules of the tournament discussed before the tournament starts?? Shouldn't he have already known what's in store?

sureshs
03-02-2007, 10:18 AM
Aren't the rules of the tournament discussed before the tournament starts?? Shouldn't he have already known what's in store?

This is a corner case - so he may not have been aware of it.

In general, principle in law is "Ignorance is not an excuse". At the same time, newly added or obscure rules can be viewed as unreasonable to remember or be told about.

vive le beau jeu !
03-02-2007, 10:19 AM
if i was blake, i would have won my both RR matches and qualify without all this controversy... ;)

well.
i'd say i would have accepted the rules.

but i'm not sure james was totally aware of all this mess. he's generally a fair guy, so i tend to think he was uncorrectly informed... or maybe he took the decision to accept the change of rule too much rapidly, being influenced by the devil(liers).

sureshs
03-02-2007, 10:20 AM
Remember, this is a public poll - everyone can see who is voting and how.

I see that Dima has voted for option 1 :-)

Moose Malloy
03-02-2007, 10:21 AM
I doubt most of the players are aware of all the rules concerning round robin, it is a long list of rules. Hewit was only aware of the walkover rule when he was watching the Tennis Channel in the lockerroom.

Mac didn't know the conduct rules had been changed when he got defaulted in Australia in 1990.

Blake is not to blame in any of this, he had nothing to do with Etiene's overule. If you are told before hand you have to win only losing 5 games, & afterwards are told, sorry you lose, I think anyone would be upset & say so.

I think 99% of the players on tour would do what Blake did, which is just wait for others to decide.

noeledmonds
03-02-2007, 10:24 AM
Aren't the rules of the tournament discussed before the tournament starts?? Shouldn't he have already known what's in store?

I expect most players don't know the rules of a new system. The players seem remarkably unaware of a lot of the old rules, never mind ones brought in this year. They do seem to have made a mess of round robin though. I really liked the concept for the Masters Cup, but I think expanding it is not good for the game. Keep the unique Master Cup format for those 8 players.

Warriorroger
03-02-2007, 10:24 AM
Another reason round Robin sucks. Too bad Blake isn't number one in the world, so he could really do something drastic. So is his opponent going to play the next round? If so; the ******* knew about the rule.

ATXtennisaddict
03-02-2007, 10:27 AM
Blake's the ATP player council president or something. He has said he supports the RR format because "if that's what the fans want, they get".

LOL how do you like the RR format now? LOL OWNED

ATXtennisaddict
03-02-2007, 10:28 AM
I doubt most of the players are aware of all the rules concerning round robin, it is a long list of rules. Hewit was only aware of the walkover rule when he was watching the Tennis Channel in the lockerroom.

Mac didn't know the conduct rules had been changed when he got defaulted in Australia in 1990.

Blake is not to blame in any of this, he had nothing to do with Etiene's overule. If you are told before hand you have to win only losing 5 games, & afterwards are told, sorry you lose, I think anyone would be upset & say so.

I think 99% of the players on tour would do what Blake did, which is just wait for others to decide.


By the old rules, players just have to go in thinking "Win at all costs or bust".

I love simple things.

Moose Malloy
03-02-2007, 10:32 AM
anyone gamble on tennis? most sites still have odds for Blake-Querrey listed. Blake is/was a big favorite. Looks like they don't have time to relist Querrey-Korolev odds before matchtime.

spadesss
03-02-2007, 10:39 AM
dump the RR format. its stupid to my opinion.
tennis was supose to be the easiest in terms of who is in or out, like any tournament format.
now you need someone doing the calculations based on # of games won/lost and tiebreakers.
have fun beating #1 and #2 player in the world twice in the same tournament.
who ever beats federer twice should just win the tournament automatically.

dubsplayer
03-02-2007, 11:15 AM
IMO, I think Blake was well aware of the rules before the match started and knew immediately after JMdP retired he was out of the tournament because in his on court interview (which I watched twice to be sure) he said none of the usual stuff a player says after winning like 'I'm happy to get into the quarters, be able to defend my title, etc.,etc. What he did say was they he was happy that he played a lot better this round which was good for him for his next tournament (not match) - which I took him to mean IW. So I'm not buying his not knowing what the rules were.

kevhen
03-02-2007, 11:32 AM
So if a player retires why isn't that considered a forfeit of the rest of the games to be played?

Morrissey
03-02-2007, 11:33 AM
First off I´m not a Blake fan so there´s no favoritism in this. I don´t think he should be given any blame in this since it´s the organizers who initially put him through. He´s known for being fair and sporting so I believe that he would´ve said something if he knew about it. But this new RR format is really confusing to me and I imagine that the players aren´t really sure of how it goes either. So apparently Blake didn´t go through because Del Potro retired in the second set, thus taking away an additional set that would´ve broken him through? That stinks. If there are ties in the group (and there always is) then you have to take into account games won/lost and sets won and lost as well. So that makes it all a big mess, especially if you don´t write down the results on paper for every match. Which us fans (and players) don´t do so we let the organizers decide who goes on. Two points; Blake is not to blame and RR is awful.

tintin
03-02-2007, 11:35 AM
since he's in the council,theres no way in hell he didn't know the rules
kick his sorry arse off player council

lorenza
03-02-2007, 11:54 AM
he's on the council. he should know the rules probably better than most players anyway, but if i were him, i would say something about how the RR format sucks and cite this as an example of how confusing things can get

Moose Malloy
03-02-2007, 12:01 PM
IMO, I think Blake was well aware of the rules before the match started and knew immediately after JMdP retired he was out of the tournament because in his on court interview (which I watched twice to be sure) he said none of the usual stuff a player says after winning like 'I'm happy to get into the quarters, be able to defend my title, etc.,etc. What he did say was they he was happy that he played a lot better this round which was good for him for his next tournament (not match) - which I took him to mean IW. So I'm not buying his not knowing what the rules were

The interview wasn't directly after the match, they went to commercial, then came back with the Blake interview. In that time I'm sure Blake was informed of the decision(even the commentators didn't take a walkover into effect until Del Potro became sick. that scenario didn't even cross their mind, in previous days news coverage Korolev was basically considered elimated after his 2 matches)

Did you notice how carefully Wayne Bryan phrased his questions & how carefully Blake worded his answers? They never addressed that he was eliminated(I'm sure they were instructed to not do so as not to upset the fans in attendance, who definitely had no idea)

Its standard tv proccess in tennis, to have time between match & interview(even for only a fewseconds) to pre-interview, (while player is getting miked, etc) Blake certianly looked down during the interview & you can see an extended conversation with atp official right after the Bryan interview(wish I could read lips, Blake looks in full debate mode, I'm sure he had no idea-& doubt he would look so concerned for Del Potro right after the match if he knew that in a way he got screwed by the retirement.

BTW Del Potro didn't know either & said if he knew about this rule, he would've stayed on court to let Blake advance.

dubsplayer
03-02-2007, 12:11 PM
You could be right Moose but regardless I still think Blake showed no sportmanship whatsoever by accepting the qtr final spot. I'm hardly a fan of his but I've lost any bit of respect I had for him by his acquiescence.

Moose Malloy
03-02-2007, 12:35 PM
During the press conference, he talked about what happened at the end.:

“When he came up to net, I said I hope he gets better soon and that he does better in Indian Wells and Miami, because as I said, he seems to be a very nice kid. I looked over at my coach and gave him a little fist pump that I was through. I didn’t know the rules, I thought ‘he didn’t win five games... or six games, I’m through.’ I started to think about what I was going to do to get prepared for the next match. And then as I came off the court I was informed that might not be the case – the rule might say otherwise, ‘we’re not sure, we’re looking into it, we’re reviewing it.’ And it was just somewhat strange because I thought I’d done my job.”

Marat Safin, who came in after his night match, had the most definitive opinion on whether the decision was influenced by Blake’s profile and status. “This is exactly the saddest part... if it had been the other way around, nobody would care about it and it just would be no discussion at all,” he said. “Unfortunately, the CEO, he put James in the wrong situation. I don't think James wants to be in this situation at all, in front of all of us guys."

“Somebody got screwed, it's nobody's fault but the people upstairs.”

http://tennisworld.typepad.com/travelblogue/2007/03/merrygoroundrob.html


I agree, its a lot to ask of Blake to have to think about all this stuff. Athletes aren't exactly the brightest guys, they just do what they are told, we can't expect them to think big picture when all they think about 99% of the time is running around in shorts chasing a yellow ball. And they ultimately have very little say on the way the sport is run.

lorenza
03-02-2007, 12:40 PM
BTW Del Potro didn't know either & said if he knew about this rule, he would've stayed on court to let Blake advance.

wow, what a nice guy to even think to do that. most guys i'm sure would never do such a thing...

vive le beau jeu !
03-02-2007, 12:53 PM
I agree, its a lot to ask of Blake to have to think about all this stuff. Athletes aren't exactly the brightest guys, they just do what they are told, we can't expect them to think big picture when all they think about 99% of the time is running around in shorts chasing a yellow ball. And they ultimately have very little say on the way the sport is run.
wow... aren't you a bit severe with tennis players ? ;)
(at least, don't forget they are geniuses compared to soccer players !)

and isn't james supposed to have made some studies before starting his professional career ?...
but i guess you're right about this situation... i think he didn't know so much about these details in the rules, and did what he was advised to do just after his match... i trust on his integrity, and obviously safin also does.

and that's indeed a good way to sum it up from marat :
Somebody got screwed, it's nobody's fault but the people upstairs.

ummm "people upstairs"... who can it be ?...... ;)

Colpo
03-02-2007, 12:58 PM
I was a little uneasy with how readily both Shiras and MacKay thought the solution was such a great one. Why not just come out and say it's a better tourney with Blake making the QF rather than Korolev, because that's the point of this all. Although a match is never over until it's over, the thinking was that if Blake's opponent had simply stayed on court and gone thru the motions, he would've lost by a score that would've allowed Blake to fairly move on, acc. to the rules. Harping on how the RR system is an 'experiment' doesn't mean you get to dip in and cherry-pick the results you want. From the sounds of it, the RR system actually did have a rule in place for this scenario, with Korolev moving thru to the QF. Not a popular result in Vegas, but frankly, Blake looked so terrible against Korolev the other night, this solution of sending Blake thru over a guy who crushed him sounds like pure favoritism.

dubsplayer
03-02-2007, 01:05 PM
wow... aren't you a bit severe with tennis players ? ;)
(at least, don't forget they are geniuses compared to soccer players !)

and isn't james supposed to have made some studies before starting his professional career ?...
but i guess you're right about this situation... i think he didn't know so much about these details in the rules, and did what he was advised to do just after his match... i trust on his integrity, and obviously safin also does.

and that's indeed a good way to sum it up from marat :


ummm "people upstairs"... who can it be ?...... ;)

Yes. he went to Harvard. But even if you believe he didn't know the rules - which I don't - once he did learn of the rule he should have said thanks, but no thanks. So in my books he lacks integrity simply for that.

tintin
03-02-2007, 01:43 PM
Yes. he went to Harvard. But even if you believe he didn't know the rules - which I don't - once he did learn of the rule he should have said thanks, but no thanks. So in my books he lacks integrity simply for that.

amen!

Moose Malloy
03-02-2007, 02:34 PM
here is what blake said today:

On Friday, Blake received an early-morning call from ATP officials informing him of the reversal. He said later he had been preparing for a quarterfinal match.

"No, I didn't understand the rule the way it was explained to me," Blake said at an afternoon news conference. "I wish I would have known it before I went on the court.

"If we are talking about this in a legal sense, Evgeny has more of a right to be in the quarterfinals than I do."

Blake said that he felt bad for fans who had come out for the quarterfinals expecting to see him play a match against Querrey. He said that he hopes he has a future role in helping to alleviate this problem.

"A possible flaw in the rules has been exposed in this round-robin format which will weigh very heavily in a couple of weeks at our (ATP Tour) meetings in Miami," said Blake. "Unfortunately, it forced me out of the tournament, but hopefully some good will come out of it with the revamping, or possibly the destruction, of the round-robin system. Anything that happens is OK with me."

Although the rule may change, Blake said he now understands the rule the way it is currently written, even after it caused him several headaches.

"As you all know, it's been a bit of a tumultuous 24 hours," said Blake. "After completely understanding the rule, after realizing what the ATP went through, Evgeny Korolev deserves to be in the quarterfinals and I wish him the best of luck."

tintin
03-02-2007, 02:39 PM
nice try blake;) ;) ;)

sureshs
03-02-2007, 03:10 PM
I agree, its a lot to ask of Blake to have to think about all this stuff. Athletes aren't exactly the brightest guys

And yet we are the ones busily posting about them, not vice versa.

What does that say about us :-)

Moose Malloy
03-02-2007, 03:38 PM
"If some good can come out of it, the revamping or destruction of the round-robin system, then that is something," Blake told reporters on Friday.

"It seriously needs to be looked at. We're going to run into situations every single week."

"After hearing all the reasons...I completely understand the rule," said Blake. "Evgeny deserves to be in the quarter-finals.

"The only thing is that a possible flaw in the rules has been exposed in this round-robin format."

Blake questioned the amount of control a player had in the situation del Potro found himself in.

"Once (he) was down 6-1 3-1 he could have lost a few more games and allowed me to go through or he could have retired and let Evgeny go through," said Blake.

"To put that kind of control in a player's hands is something that needs to be looked at."

Korolev thought the right decision was reached.

"It's a really difficult situation," he said. "I was a little angry but you have to understand the situation.

"James is a nice guy and I hope he's not angry with me. The thing is you cannot change the rules in the middle of a tournament."

Korolev said many players were against the round-robin format.

"I am actually glad this happened because a lot of players do not agree with the round-robin system," said the Russian.

The 19-year-old said he barely had any sleep after going to bed at 0300 but still managed to beat American Sam Querrey 6-4 6-4 to reach his first ATP semi-final.

"I was happy to play but I was also thinking how James would feel," said Korolev. "I felt a little guilty."

Mr. Sean
03-02-2007, 05:58 PM
Win some damn matches and not rely on luck to get into a final.