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nrota
03-02-2007, 10:22 PM
Despite all this mess, which is fixable, I like round robins and I've put up a petition here (http://www.petitiononline.com/38253825/petition.html) to support them.

First of all, in single elimination, a player could play a few loose games or lose a set but still win and advance. In round robin, those games and that set could mean the difference between advancing or not so every game means more and that's more exciting.

It might have been fun if the crowd knew Del Potro had to finish for Blake to advance. Del Potro supporters might have been yelling "retire, retire" and Blake supporters would be yelling "one more set, one more set".

There'll always be problems when you change something, that's just how it is, but tennis needs innovation and this is a good start.

Nina
tennisdiary.com (http://www.tennisdiary.com)

Fedexeon
03-02-2007, 10:26 PM
Round robin has its pros and cons.

vive le beau jeu !
03-03-2007, 02:48 AM
current score : 586-2 ! :rolleyes:
After the disgrace in Buenos Aires,where a player was disqualified before even playin the second match,now follows the farcical shame in Las Vegas.
If you think that Round Robin is not good for the sport and ATP should get rid of it sign the petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nomorerr/petition.html

It will be sent to the meeting of the players meeting right after Key Biscaine.

Cfidave
03-03-2007, 05:27 AM
Round robbins produce meaningless matches, and partial matches. If a player needs to win 5 games to advance, and he wins the first set, then the rest is meaningless. I think it hurts the potential interest level.

Rybo
03-03-2007, 05:45 AM
Why even have eliminations at all? Let the players play a few matches, and at the end, we'll declare them all the champion. This way, everyone can be happy. :-D

nrota
03-03-2007, 07:27 AM
I am in favor or walkoffs like they have in baseball. If a team scores the winning run in the bottom half of the nine inning forward, the game's over. If a player needs six games to advance out of his group, let the match end then you don't worry about retirements because they are never playing meaningless matches or sets or games.

This week has been a round robin disaster but it's been fun. Baseball lovers argue about the designated hitter, basketball lovers argue about the three point shot, and now we can argue about round robins or no round robins. We haven't had much chance before because tennis hasn't been as innovative as other sports.

Look at the stands in Las Vegas - besides the fact that it should be an indoor tournament - they were empty and the U.S. is going to lose tournaments or have them dropped down a tier.

De Villiers screwed up this week but that happens when you make changes and tennis needs to do something to attract a bigger audience.

Fedexeon
03-03-2007, 07:33 AM
They should put all the US tournaments into the US Open Series and not to have one here and there.

patrick922
03-03-2007, 07:37 AM
i think that round robins only 'work' if all were top players, like in the tennis masters cup where the top 8 players play. round robins with lower ranked players just dont make for good match ups.

oscar_2424
03-03-2007, 07:50 AM
Leave the round robin for the masters cup only.

patrick922
03-03-2007, 07:54 AM
the round robin also seems unfair. i mean look what happened to blake.

Mistake removes Blake, advances Korolev in Las Vegas
LAS VEGAS (AP) -Top-seeded James Blake was removed from the quarterfinals of the Tennis Channel Open on Friday after ATP Tour officials reversed a ruling that had allowed him to advance due to a competitor's withdrawal during round-robin play.

Evgeny Korolev took Blake's place against Sam Querrey, and ATP officials released a statement blaming the confusion on ``an incorrect variation of ATP rules.''

Blake had been awarded a quarterfinal spot after Argentine player Juan Martin del Potro withdrew Thursday because of respiratory problems during a match with Blake leading 6-3, 3-1.

ATP Chairman and President Etienne de Villiers initially ruled that Blake would have won his round-robin group if del Potro hadn't retired. But a review of the rules found that an incomplete match can't count as a match played for the retiring player.

That eliminated del Potro based on the tiebreak procedure and moved Korolev ahead based on his win over Blake in their round robin match.

ilostmymarbles
03-03-2007, 07:55 AM
god no, that thing causes more trouble than its worth

vive le beau jeu !
03-03-2007, 08:00 AM
i agree with oscar... let's keep RR once in a year for the masters cup. :)
but please stop this unacceptable de villiers joke for regular tournaments...

Blake calls on ATP to change rules after Vegas fiasco
(...)
Korolev said many players were against the round-robin format.

"I am actually glad this happened because a lot of players do not agree with the round-robin system," said the Russian. from : http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news?slug=reu-menvegasblakeatpdc&prov=reuters&type=lgns

nrota
03-03-2007, 08:04 AM
I put up a post on Mens Tennis Forums directing people to my pro-round robin petition and they deleted it and redirected it to a thread about an anti-round robin petition! Wanna know something stranger, as far as I can tell, you cannot link directly to Mens Tennis Forums on this site, it replaces it with ******. What on earth is going on in tennis forums? No wonder so many people leave comments at Peter Bodo's site, discussion is open and free.

Round robin probably does work better with higher ranked players which brings up yet another point - I don't know of another sport which has a qualifying tournament for three or four spots in the main draw every week. Golf might have it but it's only for a few spots in a much larger field

If tennis wants to put a higher quality product out there, they could reduce the number of qualifiers. For one thing, there would be more rivalries on the tour because players would play each other more often. Every week I keep a count of matches between players who've never met before and sometimes it's players who've been on the tour for six or seven years. Way too much. If you follow Fomula One, you know who the drivers are and they compete against each other every week. In tennis they might play each other every few years, maybe.

Nina
tennisdiary.com (http://www.tennisdiary.com)

vive le beau jeu !
03-03-2007, 08:07 AM
current score : 586-2 ! :rolleyes:
score update : 659-3 !!!

game over. ;)

dubsplayer
03-03-2007, 08:16 AM
I think we've finally found the fans Mr. Disney keeps talking about. ;-)

BlackSheep
03-03-2007, 08:19 AM
I hate this format except in the tennis masters cup.

nrota
03-03-2007, 09:48 AM
I haven't gotten an answer to this question yet: in the Masters Cup, when a player retires, does that count as a win in group play for his opponent? In other words, how does the Masters Cup handle retirements?

Nina
www.tennisdiary.com (http://www.tennisdiary.com)

ibemadskillzz
03-03-2007, 09:53 AM
PROS- fans get to see more match up and more matches, good for the fans. But players, a win is different according to score, loss is different according to score. If someone retires on purpose it may cost a player to advance. I guess it's a strategy.

dubsplayer
03-03-2007, 09:56 AM
I haven't gotten an answer to this question yet: in the Masters Cup, when a player retires, does that count as a win in group play for his opponent? In other words, how does the Masters Cup handle retirements?

Nina
www.tennisdiary.com (http://www.tennisdiary.com)

Yes, it counts as a win, just like in a regular tourney and then they replace the players who has retired/withdrawn with the alternate in the next match that player would have played had he not withdrawn.

The RR format at TMC is nothing like the RR is place at these other silly tourneys.

Voltron
03-03-2007, 09:58 AM
Now it's 681 to 2 or however many your petition has. Round robins are a joke, and a bad joke at that.

dubsplayer
03-03-2007, 10:00 AM
PROS- fans get to see more match up and more matches, good for the fans.

Pfft. I doubt fans going to the tourneys give it a thought. A friend of mine was in Delray and I asked her how it was - she didn't even know what I was talking about and she was there the first few days.

Fee
03-03-2007, 10:07 AM
Round Robin? oh.hell.no.


I put up a post on Mens Tennis Forums directing people to my pro-round robin petition and they deleted it and redirected it to a thread about an anti-round robin petition! Wanna know something stranger, as far as I can tell, you cannot link directly to Mens Tennis Forums on this site, it replaces it with ******. What on earth is going on in tennis forums? No wonder so many people leave comments at Peter Bodo's site, discussion is open and free.

Of course you can't link to MTF from here, it's a competing board and TW has the right to censor the link if they want to (they do the same for the links to competing tennis shops, duh). There aren't really that many people commenting on Bodo's column, its usually many of the same people over and over. There are far more registered users and contributors here and at MTF. As for MTF blending your thread with the other one, that was a mistake since they were opposite views, but I can understand why one of the mods decided to put them together.

Nick Irons
03-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Round Robins suck

bluescreen
03-03-2007, 10:22 AM
there's no way im signing this petition. round robin is good only for masters cup, for reasons which previous members already stated.

Nick Irons
03-03-2007, 10:25 AM
A Tennis Round Robin Petition

Here:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mb731451/petition.html

Sign something that will make adifference

Voltron
03-03-2007, 10:30 AM
Hey Nick, sign the anti round robin petition if you haven't already.

Feņa14
03-03-2007, 10:36 AM
Erm.. no thanks.

I'm signing the petition to get rid of them.

BreakPoint
03-03-2007, 10:37 AM
Why don't we just forget matches altogether and just pay to watch pros practice and hit with each other. The outcomes of practices seem to be just as important as the outcome of some round robin matches anyway. :-(

The tennis guy
03-03-2007, 10:39 AM
There'll always be problems when you change something, that's just how it is, but tennis needs innovation and this is a good start.


A good start? You are kidding yourself. Change for the sake of change is never good!

vive le beau jeu !
03-03-2007, 11:23 AM
score update : 659-3 !!!

game over. ;)

I think we've finally found the fans Mr. Disney keeps talking about. ;-)
LOL... so these are the famous 3 fans he was talking aobut !!! :rolleyes:

malakas
03-03-2007, 11:28 AM
Despite all this mess, which is fixable, I like round robins and I've put up a petition here (http://www.petitiononline.com/38253825/petition.html) to support them.

First of all, in single elimination, a player could play a few loose games or lose a set but still win and advance. In round robin, those games and that set could mean the difference between advancing or not so every game means more and that's more exciting.

It might have been fun if the crowd knew Del Potro had to finish for Blake to advance. Del Potro supporters might have been yelling "retire, retire" and Blake supporters would be yelling "one more set, one more set".

There'll always be problems when you change something, that's just how it is, but tennis needs innovation and this is a good start.

Nina
tennisdiary.com (http://www.tennisdiary.com)


I am all for innovation and trying new ways to advance the sport and making it bigger but clearly RR isn't one of them.Especially on the 32 draw format it can be very unfair to players and judging by the empty stands in LasVegas(yes the wind probably has played a big role in that) it doesn't help all that much in attracting more fans.
I think that RR is only viable in the Masters Cup where only 8 players are competing.
The RR experiment has failed and I hope most ppl see it and get rid of it quickly and not continue with it in the name of "innovation".

vive le beau jeu !
03-03-2007, 11:37 AM
roger... you don't disappoint me ! :D
Federer says days of round robin are numbered
(...)

"Everybody knows I was against it (the round robin system) in the first place," said Federer. "It's actually very disappointing to see things like this had to happen first before you realise that the system is not going to work.

"Nothing against Etienne de Villiers, he's trying his best, but all I hope is he doesn't change the integrity of the game.

"I've always said you have to keep tennis the way it is and not try to change and mix it up and try too many things at the same time. He's burned his hands on that, that's for sure, and I doubt it's going to happen next year, the round robin system.

"It's going to be interesting to see their (the ATP's) reaction now because they're definitely under pressure. I think it's a bad situation that happened." from : http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news?slug=reu-mendubaifederer&prov=reuters&type=lgns

malakas
03-03-2007, 11:44 AM
wonderful.It's nice to see Federer stand up and telling his mind about RR!I think that it will be very shortlived that RR system.Queens and Stockholm have already dropped it and that was even before the BA and LV inciddents.

Nick Irons
03-03-2007, 11:47 AM
Hey Nick, sign the anti round robin petition if you haven't already.

;) :p
Will do !


EDIT

Signed

vive le beau jeu !
03-03-2007, 12:26 PM
wonderful.It's nice to see Federer stand up and telling his mind about RR!I think that it will be very shortlived that RR system.Queens and Stockholm have already dropped it and that was even before the BA and LV inciddents.
the next RR joke was scheduled in april at estoril... but i hope they will come back to the classic draw.
Dec. 31 Adelaide 32
Jan. 28 Delray Beach 32
Jan. 29 Vina del Mar 24
Feb. 18 Buenos Aires 32
Feb. 25 Las Vegas (total fiasco) 32
Apr. 29 Estoril 32
20-May Poertschach 24
Jun. 11 London 48
Jul. 15 Stuttgart 32
Jul. 22 Umag 32
Oct. 7 Stockholm 32
from : http://www.atptennis.com/en/news/2007/rr.asp

Rabbit
03-03-2007, 12:56 PM
I think the round robins are a desparate attempt by the ATP to rekindle interest in the mens game. IMO, they are a joke.

scineram
03-03-2007, 01:03 PM
More detailed interviews form Fed:
http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2007-03-03/147.php