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View Full Version : How quickly does your 'real world' NTRP level drop through inactivity?


AndrewD
03-03-2007, 03:40 PM
This is a very minor question but I thought the people posting in this section would be best placed to answer it.

When you have an extended period of inactivity - either playing no tennis at all or merely playing no competitive tennis - how much do you find that affects the level of your game (not your computer rating but the actual standard you produce) and how long does it take for you to return to your former level? Is it only a minor slip or do you find your standard dropping a full level or more - for example: from a 4.5 to a 4.0

DANMAN
03-03-2007, 04:02 PM
This is a very minor question but I thought the people posting in this section would be best placed to answer it.

When you have an extended period of inactivity - either playing no tennis at all or merely playing no competitive tennis - how much do you find that affects the level of your game (not your computer rating but the actual standard you produce) and how long does it take for you to return to your former level? Is it only a minor slip or do you find your standard dropping a full level or more - for example: from a 4.5 to a 4.0

I feel like once you make it to 4.5, the only way you will drop back to 4.0 is via physical downfall. Your strategy and mental game is much better and after a few times on the courts, your level should be above that of a person a full level below you. You may, however, drop to the bottom of your current NTRP.

heycal
03-03-2007, 07:48 PM
I'm interested in the answer to this myself, so I'm curious what others have to say. But for what's it worth, I will give you an analogy from another activity, pool. Now, pool doesn't have NTRP ratings, but let's pretend it does to illustrate the following example:

I played pool in bars intermittantly throughout my early 20's, and became decent at it, maybe about a 3.5 level -- better than your average drunk in a bar, but nowhere near as good as serious players. (To me pool and tennis are similar in many many ways, one major way being consistency, or lack thereof, and not missing easy shots/unforced errors, so it's one of the areas of life I like applying the NTRP system to for fun.)

Then in my late 20's, I moved to an area that had a bar with three pool tables right near my house. I proceeded to play pool several times a week for almost five years straight until age 33, and read books on the subject and bought my own cue and all that, and during that time rose from a 3.5 to maybe a weak 5.0, which is a pretty damn good level of play -- girls would swoon at my ability and touch as they watched me rule the tables and hit crazy angled shots, and guys would fear to play me. (I can remember back when I was a lowly 3.5 and watching the good guys play, and thinking "wow, I could never make shots like them", and then a few years later, I COULD make those shots myself, and it was a great feeling...) I could beat almost everybody in any bar I entered at that point, though I noticed that when I visited pool halls where serious players went, there were many other good players there as well.

But then my life circumstances changed, I moved away from that neighborhood, and I pretty much stopped playing pool much more than once or twice a year on random occassions. I probably dropped down to a weak 4.5 in six months or so, I'd say, and now ten years since I last played regularly, I estimate myself at about a 4.0 on a good day on those rare times I play these days -- still capable of making great shots that dazzle the fans, but with consistency problems up the wazoo, among other deficiencies, and mourning for the player I once was...

Now, I estimate if were to start playing regularly again, like a few times a week, I could get back to 4.5 in six months, and maybe back to my previous weak 5.0 level within a year of seriously playing a lot. There remains a lot of underlying knowledge and skill from all those years of regularly playing, so I'm confident I could build on that and get back to 5.0 much quicker than one who were starting from scratch.

Moral of this story? Not much that I can see, but I hope you enjoyed it...

DANMAN
03-03-2007, 09:16 PM
I'm interested in the answer to this myself, so I'm curious what others have to say. But for what's it worth, I will give you an analogy from another activity, pool. Now, pool doesn't have NTRP ratings, but let's pretend it does to illustrate the following example:

I played pool in bars intermittantly throughout my early 20's, and became decent at it, maybe about a 3.5 level -- better than your average drunk in a bar, but nowhere near as good as serious players. (To me pool and tennis are similar in many many ways, one major way being consistency, or lack thereof, and not missing easy shots/unforced errors, so it's one of the areas of life I like applying the NTRP system to for fun.)

Then in my late 20's, I moved to an area that had a bar with three pool tables right near my house. I proceeded to play pool several times a week for almost five years straight until age 33, and read books on the subject and bought my own cue and all that, and during that time rose from a 3.5 to maybe a weak 5.0, which is a pretty damn good level of play -- girls would swoon at my ability and touch as they watched me rule the tables and hit crazy angled shots, and guys would fear to play me. (I can remember back when I was a lowly 3.5 and watching the good guys play, and thinking "wow, I could never make shots like them", and then a few years later, I COULD make those shots myself, and it was a great feeling...) I could beat almost everybody in any bar I entered at that point, though I noticed that when I visited pool halls where serious players went, there were many other good players there as well.

But then my life circumstances changed, I moved away from that neighborhood, and I pretty much stopped playing pool much more than once or twice a year on random occassions. I probably dropped down to a weak 4.5 in six months or so, I'd say, and now ten year's since I last played regularly, I estimate myself at about a 4.0 on a good day on those rare times I play these days -- still capable of making great shots that dazzle the fans, but with consistency problems up the wazoo, among other deficiencies, and mourning for the player I once was...

Now, I estimate if were to start playing regularly again, like a few times a week, I could get back to 4.5 in six months, and maybe back to my previous weak 5.0 level within a year of seriously playing a lot. There remains a lot of underlying knowledge and skill from all those years of regularly playing, so I'm confident I could build on that and get back to 5.0 much quicker than one who were starting from scratch.

Moral of this story? Not much that I can see, but I hope you enjoyed it...

Seems like a great analogy. I guess it totally depends on the length of the layoff, your physical shape, and the USTA "ratings" at the time (I guess the final thing doesn't pertain since we are not talking about explicit USTA ratings).

10sguy
03-03-2007, 09:47 PM
All else being equal (no physical problems, etc.), I wouldn't expect a short term drop of more than .5; So, if your FULL rating (to the hundredth) were 4.15 (that's a "4.5" to everyone else), a .5 (or even a .2) drop would move your rating down (to 3.65 . . . or even 3.95 in the second example) to where you'd be a 4.0. Bottom line (like someone already mentioned): It really depends on where you started (what your FULL rating was) before the layoff.

Raiden.Kaminari
03-09-2007, 01:25 AM
Well actually, it kind of works like this.

Let's say you had a rating of 4.20 (4.5), and played a few times in your last season against player XYZ.

XYZ continued to play, but you didn't. Your rating is still set to 4.20, if XYZ continues to be at where he was when you played him (for this example, 4.20).

Now let's say player XYZ had a bad season, and more data is collected on him while you are absent from USTA tennis.

XYZ drops down to 3.960 (4.0). I've seen it happen to a few players that they also get moved down to 4.0 if they're inactive (and played someone multiple times).

But what if XYZ started having good seasons, and improved? Depending on the other people you played against prior to leaving USTA tennis, that would affect your rating.

So if an equal number of players maintain the same number, you're safe.

But as seen because of all the self-rating issues happening recently, you're rating will drop .5 if you were low.

dennis1188
03-09-2007, 01:29 AM
At the team captains meeting this week, the USTA said ratings r maintained for 3yrs (if layoff).
After 3yrs lay off, u self rate again.

Raiden.Kaminari
03-09-2007, 01:50 AM
At the team captains meeting this week, the USTA said ratings r maintained for 3yrs (if layoff).
After 3yrs lay off, u self rate again.

While this may be correct for your section, DNTRP is dynamic. It shifts based on how players do.

So if your section lost badly at Nationals, everyone in the section for that level is adjusted downward.

If your section won at Nationals, everyone in the section for that level is adjusted upwards.

So the rating does indeed move even if you're inactive (usually downward, and rarely upwards).

heycal
03-09-2007, 07:44 AM
Guys, I'm pretty sure the OP is interested in real world playing ability changing through inactivity, not mathematical equations involving computerized data...

Raiden.Kaminari
03-09-2007, 03:26 PM
Guys, I'm pretty sure the OP is interested in real world playing ability changing through inactivity, not mathematical equations involving computerized data...

Whoops ... you're right!

I start dropping .5 within a few weeks of not practicing. Players I easily beat are starting to give me problems.

After a few weeks, I'm at least .5 below my rating.