PDA

View Full Version : Think Fed will break the most wins in a row record?


NoBadMojo
03-04-2007, 07:54 AM
Fed is sitting on 41 consecutive match wins and the record is 46 by Vilas.......think it will happen?
Also, while they say that Vilas had 46 in a row, wasnt there some controversy about this about his streak being longer somehow?

edberg505
03-04-2007, 08:01 AM
Fed is sitting on 41 consecutive match wins and the record is 46 by Vilas.......think it will happen?
Also, while they say that Vilas had 46 in a row, wasnt there some controversy about this about his streak being longer somehow?

Ahhh, yes the infamous spaghetti racquet used by Nastase against Vilas in the 70's. Vilas got ticked off and didn't even finish playing the match.

The Gorilla
03-04-2007, 08:02 AM
.. and then went on to win another 40 odd matches in a row.

malakas
03-04-2007, 08:05 AM
I say yes.It's gonna be tough since he has to win IW,but it's still very probable.

Hey Can we have a poll about this?

The Gorilla
03-04-2007, 08:08 AM
he will definitely break it, with ease.

lorenza
03-04-2007, 08:10 AM
he'll be able to for sure. and yeah, there should be a poll about this :)

martin
03-04-2007, 08:11 AM
Only Vilas had that streak by winning small clay tournaments and Federer is just winning everything on every surface.

chaognosis
03-04-2007, 08:27 AM
No, b/c the real record is much higher than that.

Don Budge won 92 straight games in 1937/38.

Not sure what Bill Tilden's longest streak was, but he went completely undefeated in 1924 ... and didn't lose a single important match for six years.

scineram
03-04-2007, 08:32 AM
Well, then Fed will win everything this year, I guess.

9000tennis
03-04-2007, 08:42 AM
Is Nadal's record for most consecutive wins on clay? And how many matches did he win?

NoBadMojo
03-04-2007, 08:43 AM
Ahhh, yes the infamous spaghetti racquet used by Nastase against Vilas in the 70's. Vilas got ticked off and didn't even finish playing the match.

there ya go....i rem this now. i think he appealed, but at the time, there was nothing already on the books making the spaghetti racquet illegal for tourney play....shortly after this, they ammended the rule book to exclude spaghetti type stringing. excluding the spaghetti incident wasnt he up there around 58 or so?

dima
03-04-2007, 08:53 AM
No, b/c the real record is much higher than that.

Don Budge won 92 straight games in 1937/38.

Not sure what Bill Tilden's longest streak was, but he went completely undefeated in 1924 ... and didn't lose a single important match for six years.

And here comes the book again with his 20s crap, nobody cares about grand grandpas honey.

noeledmonds
03-04-2007, 09:00 AM
Fed is sitting on 41 consecutive match wins and the record is 46 by Vilas.......think it will happen?
Also, while they say that Vilas had 46 in a row, wasnt there some controversy about this about his streak being longer somehow?

I belive the actual Male openera record is 49 consecutive mathches by Borg. However Vilas's record was more impressive as his streak was broken by the spaggetti racket (which later became illegal). Vilas had a streak of about 36 matches after his encouter with Nastase.

chaognosis
03-04-2007, 09:03 AM
And here comes the book again with his 20s crap, nobody cares about grand grandpas honey.

People with brains do.

whistleway
03-04-2007, 09:07 AM
No, b/c the real record is much higher than that.

Don Budge won 92 straight games in 1937/38.

Not sure what Bill Tilden's longest streak was, but he went completely undefeated in 1924 ... and didn't lose a single important match for six years.

Wow.. That is real sick. I wish we could know about it.

NoBadMojo
03-04-2007, 09:32 AM
I belive the actual Male openera record is 49 consecutive mathches by Borg. However Vilas's record was more impressive as his streak was broken by the spaggetti racket (which later became illegal). Vilas had a streak of about 36 matches after his encouter with Nastase.

no..the open era record is 46 by Vilas as i stated. Borg was also in the 40's but less than Vilas

AlpineCadet
03-04-2007, 09:48 AM
Here's a reference link for what "Spaghetti Racket" or "Spaghetti String" means, since no one here explains what it is........

http://www.whatsalltheracquet.com/archives/001984.php

lorenza
03-04-2007, 09:57 AM
Here's a reference link for what "Spaghetti Racket" or "Spaghetti String" means, since no one here explains what it is........

http://www.whatsalltheracquet.com/archives/001984.php

yeah, that helped, as i had no idea what the heck the spaghetti racquet was :p

Andres
03-04-2007, 10:58 AM
no..the open era record is 46 by Vilas as i stated. Borg was also in the 40's but less than Vilas
The Open era record is actually Borg with 49. He was correct :)
But there are some differences. Vilas won 46 matches (50, if we're really meticulous) in 83 days. Federer is taking 188 days to be in his 41 matches streak ;)

Not taking any credit off Federer, of course, but credit where it's due, too :)

FedFan_2007
03-04-2007, 11:32 AM
The Open era record is actually Borg with 49. He was correct :)
But there are some differences. Vilas won 46 matches (50, if we're really meticulous) in 83 days. Federer is taking 188 days to be in his 41 matches streak ;)

Not taking any credit off Federer, of course, but credit where it's due, too :)

That in 83 days against weak fields. I'm more impressed that Fed is doing it against stacked fields every time out. Going up against the best everytime brings a big risk of losing a match. Fed's streak is very impressive considering it includes 2 slams, 1 MS shield and a Masters Cup. Talk about a super-quality streak.

Andres
03-04-2007, 11:48 AM
That in 83 days against weak fields. I'm more impressed that Fed is doing it against stacked fields every time out. Going up against the best everytime brings a big risk of losing a match. Fed's streak is very impressive considering it includes 2 slams, 1 MS shield and a Masters Cup. Talk about a super-quality streak.
McEnroe, Connors, Borg, Gerulaitis and Gottfried are weak fields? (We can count Borg out, since he didn't play him in that stretch)

Vilas won 2 matches against Eddie Dibbs, twice over José Higueras, twice over Brian Gottfried, one over JMac and one over Jimmy Connors.

Who did Fed beat this time? 3 times over Roddick, three times against Gonzo, twice Nalbandian and Blake and once against Nadal...

Anyway, credit where it's due. Federer can probably outlast 50+ victories, until the clay season, and why not? Winning 5 or 6 matches in the clay MS as well ;)

I can picture him getting up to 60 victories, and why not? Even more.

AJK1
03-04-2007, 12:53 PM
Comparisons between tennis eras are so lame........

federerfanatic
03-04-2007, 12:58 PM
I do agree the 83 field was very strong, but I definitely wouldnt use Gottfried as a good example of the strong field. I wouldnt use Davydenko or Nalbandian as good examples of the strong field today but even they were better then Gottfried IMO. Opponents like Roddick or Nadal are way way tougher then Gottfried. Dibbs and Higueras are not better except on clay, but I suspect those wins over them in that stretch were on clay anyway.

DueSouth
03-04-2007, 01:00 PM
Probably...because he is most likely going to win Indian Wells, and how many matches is that...6?(i dunno i havnt watched it before)

federerfanatic
03-04-2007, 01:06 PM
I think Pacific Life is another 6 matches so that would give him 47. If he lost in the final he would tie it with 46. So it all depends on the Pacific Life.

noeledmonds
03-04-2007, 01:39 PM
You know Andres Guazzelli there are conflicting opnions on the internet on who holds the longest streak. You may remember that a while ago I thought it was Vilas, but you purswaded me it was Borg. I then verified this by checking on Wikipedia. However double checking again Vilas defenitly comes out with the longest streak (46 matches), then Lendl with 44 and then Borg with 43. I wonder this ambiguity is down to offical tournaments being counted, or perhaps Davis Cup matches. I am most uncertain.

federerfanatic
03-04-2007, 01:43 PM
It is strange to have Vilas who is not a real all time great hold a record like that. It makes me want Roger to break it that much more.

NoBadMojo
03-04-2007, 01:58 PM
The Open era record is actually Borg with 49. He was correct :)
But there are some differences. Vilas won 46 matches (50, if we're really meticulous) in 83 days. Federer is taking 188 days to be in his 41 matches streak ;)

Not taking any credit off Federer, of course, but credit where it's due, too :)

no..the open era record is 46 by Vilas as i stated. Borg was also in the 40's but less than Vilas

as above.....

Moose Malloy
03-04-2007, 01:58 PM
You know Andres Guazzelli there are conflicting opnions on the internet on who holds the longest streak. You may remember that a while ago I thought it was Vilas, but you purswaded me it was Borg. I then verified this by checking on Wikipedia. However double checking again Vilas defenitly comes out with the longest streak (46 matches), then Lendl with 44 and then Borg with 43. I wonder this ambiguity is down to offical tournaments being counted, or perhaps Davis Cup matches. I am most uncertain.

Yeah, this is getting weird. Last year there were articles on the atp website saying that Borg had the official record-49 matches. Now this year the atp has decided Vilas has it. back in 1977 all the news reports said that Vilas had a 50 match win streak(snapped by Nastase w/the spaghetti racquet) In the years since the atp decided that 4 of Vilas' matches shouldn't have counted.
I'd like to hear their explanation for suddenly demoting Borg.
noeledmonds, I just counted Borg's streak in 1978 it was 49(for some reason the atp website is missing davis cup results in player activity prior to 1980) Borg won 6 davis cup matches(which are included in player activity on the itf website)

All the news reports are saying Vilas has the record with 46, even Federer talked about wanting to pass Vilas in Indian Wells.

Andres Guazzelli or hops or someone should contact the atp they are making themselves look quite incompetant, Borg has the record! They even said so last year when talking about Federer's previous win streak(which by the way included davis cup matches, so why are they suddenly not counting them for Borg???)

What a silly organziation the atp is, mlb doesn't miscount babe ruth's homeruns in the 1920s, yet these clowns can't count matches from 1978 accurately.

federerfanatic
03-04-2007, 02:03 PM
Well Federer will win Pacific Life and Nasdaq to pass 50 anyway. I would be shocked and very dissapointed if he lost either event. His serve and forehand were so overpowering at Dubai, his backhand was better then ever, he is driving his returns some now, volleying with confidence, and moving superbly. There is no reason for him to lose either event so he should be over 50 win streak before the dumb clay season starts where boring moonballer Nadal comes into play.

noeledmonds
03-04-2007, 02:16 PM
Yeah, this is getting weird. Last year there were articles on the atp website saying that Borg had the official record-49 matches. Now this year the atp has decided Vilas has it. back in 1977 all the news reports said that Vilas had a 50 match win streak(snapped by Nastase w/the spaghetti racquet) In the years since the atp decided that 4 of Vilas' matches shouldn't have counted.
I'd like to hear their explanation for suddenly demoting Borg.
noeledmonds, I just counted Borg's streak in 1978 it was 49(for some reason the atp website is missing davis cup results in player activity prior to 1980) Borg won 6 davis cup matches(which are included in player activity on the itf website)

All the news reports are saying Vilas has the record with 46, even Federer talked about wanting to pass Vilas in Indian Wells.

Andres Guazzelli or hops or someone should contact the atp they are making themselves look quite incompetant, Borg has the record! They even said so last year when talking about Federer's previous win streak(which by the way included davis cup matches, so why are they suddenly not counting them for Borg???)

What a silly sport tennis is, I can't imagine baseball miscounting babe ruth's homeruns in the 1920s.

How perplexing. Removing Vilas's 4 mathches due to an "unoffical tournament" seems reasonable, if not a little confused. However not counting Davis Cup matches is defenitly not reasonable. This is not the first time that Borg's records have been blemished by lack of Davis Cup data. I recall that Borg's 5 set record used to be quoted as 23-4, not 26-4 due to the exclusion of 5 set Davis Cup matches. As the Davis Cup matches are not ATP matches and do not have any ATP ranking points attached do you think this is why the matches are not counted? I suspect that the ATP might be doing an ATP match winning streak, but surely an Openera winning streak should include other professional matches such as the Davis Cup. Then I guess why not include the "unoffical tournament" matches too. Either way a feel an explanation is required.

federerfanatic
03-04-2007, 02:26 PM
It is dissapointing the ATP would not have official records and official criteria that there be no doubt what the record match win streak is. Tennis maybe is not a sport that values historical achievements as much though since I remember Sampras saying he felt deflated there was almost no recognition giving to his history making achievements from 98-2000. Perhaps Federer will experience the same thing in the next almost 3 years where I think you will see alot of records come his way, but perhaps with little fanfare.

scineram
03-04-2007, 04:07 PM
For your interest, from online database, 05/03/2007

Borg 1979-80

ITF - 41 (1979: Tokyo 5, WCT Challenge Cup 5; 1980: Masters 5, Pepsi Grand Slam 2, WCT Invitational 6, Nice 5, Monaco 5, Las Vegas 5, World Team Cup 3 + Vilas )

ATP - 32 (1979: Tokyo 5; 1980: Masters 5, Pepsi Grand Slam 2, DC 1RD vs GER 2, Nice 5, Monaco 5, Las Vegas 5, World Team Cup 3 + Vilas) - but wrong on DC date, it was after streak ended, so not counted

Combined - 41

Vilas 1977

ITF - 46 (Kitzbuhel 5, Washington DC 6, Louisville 6, South Orange 5, Columbus 6, US Open 7, DC vs AUS 2, Paris 5, Aix-en-Provence 4 + Nastase (Spaghetti))

ATP - 44 (Kitzbuhel 5, Washington DC 6, Louisville 6, South Orange 5, Columbus 6, US Open 7, Paris 5, Aix-en-Provence 4 + Nastase (Spaghetti))

Combined - 46

Moose Malloy
03-04-2007, 04:22 PM
Borg 1979-80

ITF - 41 (1979: Tokyo 5, WCT Challenge Cup 5; 1980: Masters 5, Pepsi Grand Slam 2, WCT Invitational 6, Nice 5, Monaco 5, Las Vegas 5, World Team Cup 3 + Vilas )

ATP - 32 (1979: Tokyo 5; 1980: Masters 5, Pepsi Grand Slam 2, DC 1RD vs GER 2, Nice 5, Monaco 5, Las Vegas 5, World Team Cup 3 + Vilas)

Combined - 43


Borg's 49 match win streak was from 1978. Like I said the atp cited Borg as the leader in this stat 2 years ago when Federer was on a 35 match win streak(ended by Nalbandian) It was even mentioned in the espn broadcast. I have no idea what changed since then.

Borg's activity from 1978:

http://www.atptennis.com/5/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity.asp?prevtrnnum=0&year=1978&query=Singles&selTournament=0&player=B058&x=9&y=9

and the missing davis cup matches from '78:

http://www.daviscup.com/teams/player.asp?player=10002258

adds up to 49.

He went from March '78 to to Sept '78 without losing a match(lost US Open final to Connors)

On the list of Open Era winning streaks, Borg is both first (49 tour matches won in 1978) and fifth (40 in 1979–80). The only other men with winning streaks of 40+ matches are Guillermo Vilas (46), Ivan Lendl (44), and McEnroe (42).

http://www.y2u.co.uk/Sub029_Famous/F_Bjorn_Borg.htm

lefty10spro
03-04-2007, 04:28 PM
you no lifers crack me up!!

scineram
03-04-2007, 04:32 PM
I was looking for the other streak only, but right, ITF (http://www.itftennis.com/mens/players/activity.asp?player=10002258) has all the 49 accurately again.
ITF db wins hands down.:)

Sidenote: W/O against Nastase & Gerulaitis not counted as loss, as usual.

scineram
03-04-2007, 04:52 PM
you no lifers crack me up!!

WTF said history is boring? :)

caulcano
03-05-2007, 01:16 AM
The Open era record is actually Borg with 49. He was correct :)
But there are some differences. Vilas won 46 matches (50, if we're really meticulous) in 83 days. Federer is taking 188 days to be in his 41 matches streak ;)

Quality not quantity. I'm sure FED is capable of notching a longer streak if he played some more obscure tournaments like VILAS did.

caulcano
03-05-2007, 01:20 AM
Well Federer will win Pacific Life and Nasdaq to pass 50 anyway. I would be shocked and very dissapointed if he lost either event. His serve and forehand were so overpowering at Dubai, his backhand was better then ever, he is driving his returns some now, volleying with confidence, and moving superbly. There is no reason for him to lose either event so he should be over 50 win streak before the dumb clay season starts where boring moonballer Nadal comes into play.

Over 3 sets, anything is possible. A player could be 'hot' & FED 'cold' to make a 'shock' result.

vive le beau jeu !
03-05-2007, 01:35 AM
Borg's 49 match win streak was from 1978. Like I said the atp cited Borg as the leader in this stat 2 years ago when Federer was on a 35 match win streak(ended by Nalbandian) It was even mentioned in the espn broadcast. I have no idea what changed since then.
de villiers probably called the Ministry of Truth for changing the archives... ;)



PS: anyway, i hope roger will remove any ambiguity. :)

urban
03-05-2007, 03:25 AM
By all newspapers and tv reports back then, Vilas had 50 wins in a row, including 4 matches won at a Rye event. The surfaces given on the ATP webside are also false: Columbus and South Orange were played on har tru, which is like clay. So the clay streak, Nadal beat last year, was actually higher. Borg came near the 50 matches mark, but ended on 49. One thing: Vilas won all matches really in a row, within a few weeks, playing week after week. Borg and now even more Federer had large rest periods, very seldom playing two events back to back.

Rosebud
03-05-2007, 03:58 AM
Possibly ATP decided that those two w/o wins over borg in 1978 by Nastase & Gerulaitis did snap his streak afterall. But whatever ATP uses as criteria for winning streaks, they can't deny that in that span Borg won all 49 matches played.

scineram
03-05-2007, 04:45 AM
Forget ATP, their db is ****. ITF is more extensive and accurate. Also easy to browse.

Rosebud
03-05-2007, 07:26 AM
Problem is, that apart from having an inadequate database, ATP publishes the same data through it's media releases, thus giving the world an incomplete picture of what they see as historic achievements in the sport. Perhaps they are simply understaffed. ITF database meanwhile seems to be improving lately, the former players activity sheets can be accessed again and as others on this board have also noted they're also making more tournament info available (results and draws for singles, doubles and qualies). If they keep it up that would be great.

Moose Malloy
03-05-2007, 08:19 AM
Quality not quantity. I'm sure FED is capable of notching a longer streak if he played some more obscure tournaments like VILAS did.

Yeah that tournament called the 'US Open' was really obscure. Its hard to compare today to the 70s since tennis was so disorganized back then(there were competing tours, some grand slams didn't offer as much prize money or ranking points as WCT events, so how can you know what an "important" tournament is when comparing eras?)

Regardless, Borg was considered the superior player to Vilas at any stage in their careers, so that Vilas win streak probably isn't the most significant record. So why should we care that Federer is passing an insignificant record? Thats the danger in dismissing records of the past, in a way you are putting down the person who is passing the record.

Possibly ATP decided that those two w/o wins over borg in 1978 by Nastase & Gerulaitis did snap his streak afterall.

But that doesn't make sense either. As scineram pointed out the atp is acknowledging Borg's 41 match win streak from '79-'80, which also included some walkovers. If that's the case they shouldn't count that streak either.

I really hope this is cleared up by Indian Wells, since mainstream sports outlets are talking about this streak,the tennisworld will look quite silly for giving wrong info.

federerfanatic
03-05-2007, 09:47 AM
While I wouldnt dismiss Vilas's record due to playing obscure tournaments, it is a bit amazing he was able to have a record like that when Borg so totally dominated him their whole careers. Did they even play once during Vilas's streak?

Also it is true Federer cuts down on his smaller tournaments compared to other players, I have noticed his schedule is much more limited then others, but perhaps that is a big part of his success. I wouldnt say if he would have more chance of a longer winning streak that way or not, since it seems to be a big part of his plan to schedule in a very careful and specific manner, and works very well for him.

Moose Malloy
03-05-2007, 10:23 AM
Also it is true Federer cuts down on his smaller tournaments compared to other players, I have noticed his schedule is much more limited then others, but perhaps that is a big part of his success. I wouldnt say if he would have more chance of a longer winning streak that way or not, since it seems to be a big part of his plan to schedule in a very careful and specific manner, and works very well for him.

That's why its hard to compare Federer to almost any other player in the open era. He is so consistently good on all surfaces & a threat to win every slam he has to think about his entire year in January, while most top players over the years can just pick & choose events to play throughout the year based on their current form.

I think Vilas' streak would be comparable to if Muster went undefeated an entire claycourt season (which I think he almost did) winning small events like Mexico City as well as big ones like Rome, Roland Garros. Since he wasn't a threat on any other surface it made sense for him to play every possible event on clay no matter how small. Vilas was far better on clay than other surfaces so you can't fault him for playing so much on it.

Or you could compare him to a hardcourt player winning every event in the summer & the US Open. Looking at Vilas' streak it consisted of 7 events won, 4 of them warmup events for the US Open(which was on clay at the time) & the US Open itself. So the streak didn't exactly consist of meaningless events, imagine if Agassi went undefeated during the summer in '95(which he almost did)That's kinda what Vilas did.

As far as Borg in '77 he was injured & didn't play a match between Wimbledon & the US Open that year so Vilas was bit lucky that summer not to face him. Borg had to default in the round of 16 at the Open, he was seeded to face Vilas in the semis, which would have been an interesting match.

Looking at Borg's record after that default, he went on a 29 match win streak, winning 5 events, most of which seemed a lot better fields than those Vilas won in his streak. Interesting that Vilas didn't play the same events that Borg played that fall, Vilas actually went on another win streak while Borg was on his.

Rosebud
03-05-2007, 02:25 PM
But that doesn't make sense either. As scineram pointed out the atp is acknowledging Borg's 41 match win streak from '79-'80, which also included some walkovers. If that's the case they shouldn't count that streak either.Which of Borg's opponants benefited from him withdrawing? I don't know that there were any.

Moose Malloy
03-06-2007, 09:28 AM
Possibly ATP decided that those two w/o wins over borg in 1978 by Nastase & Gerulaitis did snap his streak afterall. But whatever ATP uses as criteria for winning streaks, they can't deny that in that span Borg won all 49 matches played.

Which of Borg's opponants benefited from him withdrawing? I don't know that there were any.

http://www.itftennis.com/mens/players/activity.asp?player=10002258

There is a walkover to Kriek in Basel '79 during this streak.

Tchocky
03-06-2007, 09:34 AM
I can't see Roger losing until Monte Carlo. He should surpass the record. He'll probably end up with 55 to 60 consecutive wins.

fr600
03-07-2007, 04:28 AM
I think it's not impossible but it's gonna be difficult.

Rosebud
03-07-2007, 09:10 AM
http://www.itftennis.com/mens/players/activity.asp?player=10002258

There is a walkover to Kriek in Basel '79 during this streak.True, but I think his 'official' ATP streak starts after that w/o to Kriek. From Tokyo until his World Team Cup loss to Vilas makes 41. Which would be consistent with ATP not aknowledging Borg's 49 wins as a streak because of those two w/o's there. Only reason that I can think of for this is that they want to rule out the possiblity of a player perhaps 'extending' a winning streak by pulling out of an event when they find they're not playing up to standard and afraid to lose their next match. But that's rather far fetched and a little silly, as are perhaps the ATP and their streaks too.

Moose Malloy
03-07-2007, 09:55 AM
True, but I think his 'official' ATP streak starts after that w/o to Kriek. From Tokyo until his World Team Cup loss to Vilas makes 41. Which would be consistent with ATP not aknowledging Borg's 49 wins as a streak because of those two w/o's there. Only reason that I can think of for this is that they want to rule out the possiblity of a player perhaps 'extending' a winning streak by pulling out of an event when they find they're not playing up to standard and afraid to lose their next match. But that's rather far fetched and a little silly, as are perhaps the ATP and their streaks too.

I got confirmation from the atp:

"Borg did have a streak of 41 in 1979-80 and he also had a mark in 1978
of 35 matches in a row not 49 because he had two walk overs in successive
tournaments. It was Borg's decision to withdraw in the middle of the
tournament not his opponent. A losing walk over ends a streak while a
winning walk over allows it to continue without counting the victory by
walk over.

This was agreed in consultation with the ITF. Hope that helps!"

The only problem I have with this is that they keep changing their minds on this, a few years ago the ATP said that Borg had the record with 49.

Its a kinda strange ruling since a walkover doesn't count in win/loss records nor head-to-head records, but apparently counts in this matter.

Not counting walkovers, Borg won 48 straight matches from '79-'80 in addition to his 49 in '78(and I think we all can agree the World Team Cup probably is the most meaningless event on tour, so his win streak at real tournaments in '80 then arguably went on a bit longer. Amazing that Borg had so many long win streaks in his career that only got interruped by walkovers(& retirements as well it seems)

Regardless I probably feel Vilas should have the record(though as urban said all news reports in 1977 said it was 50 match streak, not 46, it is a record that has apparently been altered by the atp over the years), even though according to their rules Borg should have it.

And the fact that he won so many matches in consecutive weeks, unlike Borg & Federer who did it over a longer period of time is pretty impressive(though he never got to play Borg during that streak in '77!), even though they were all on clay.

Moose Malloy
03-07-2007, 10:29 AM
Vilas had 50 wins in a row, including 4 matches won at a Rye event. The surfaces given on the ATP webside are also false: Columbus and South Orange were played on har tru, which is like clay. So the clay streak, Nadal beat last year, was actually higher.

does Sutter have a record of the Vilas win at Rye? who did he beat in the final?

also regardless of the error regarding surface on the atp website they did count the columbus & south orange events as part of vilas' 53 match win streak on clay.

Rosebud
03-07-2007, 02:05 PM
Thanks for that Moose. It makes sense in a way, but like you say those periods of dominance can be just as impressive as a 'true' streak by current ATP standards. Too bad it's only the streaks which ATP finds worthy of a mention.

Here are those wins at Rye by the way:
Rye, Harrison - Exhibición (29-8-77, Nueva York, clay outdoor)
+ Ion Tiriac (RUM) 7-5, 6-2
+ Matt Mitchell (EEUU) 6-2, 6-2
+ John McEnroe (EEUU) 6-1, 6-2
Final + Ilie Nastase (RUM) 6-2, 6-0

http://www.atptennis.com/es/newsandscores/news/2006/vilas_record.asp

Lambsscroll
03-07-2007, 03:48 PM
Ahhh, yes the infamous spaghetti racquet used by Nastase against Vilas in the 70's. Vilas got ticked off and didn't even finish playing the match.

What made that racquet so illegal?

Lambsscroll
03-07-2007, 03:51 PM
nvm, I found the link to that answer.

urban
03-07-2007, 11:08 PM
Good posts, Rosebud and Moose. I think the real quality problem with those streaks is the back to back tournament effect. Its much harder to win 3 or 4 events in 3 or 4 weeks than to have rest periods and carefully select events. So imo Fed's achievements at Halle and Wimbledon last year, immediately after Paris, were more impressive, than his current streak (its great without a doubt). Also the pulling out of events is to be recognized. Fed pulled out of Bercy last year citing exhaustion. Is that a stop in the streak? Similar to Borg's pullouts. I remember Connors in 1974 pulling out of some events (ca. 4), to protect his head-to-head record, which was something like 99-4.

vive le beau jeu !
03-08-2007, 03:08 AM
I got confirmation from the atp:

"Borg did have a streak of 41 in 1979-80 and he also had a mark in 1978
of 35 matches in a row not 49 because he had two walk overs in successive
tournaments. It was Borg's decision to withdraw in the middle of the
tournament not his opponent. A losing walk over ends a streak while a
winning walk over allows it to continue without counting the victory by
walk over.

This was agreed in consultation with the ITF. Hope that helps!"

The only problem I have with this is that they keep changing their minds on this, a few years ago the ATP said that Borg had the record with 49.

Its a kinda strange ruling since a walkover doesn't count in win/loss records nor head-to-head records, but apparently counts in this matter.

Not counting walkovers, Borg won 48 straight matches from '79-'80 in addition to his 49 in '78(and I think we all can agree the World Team Cup probably is the most meaningless event on tour, so his win streak at real tournaments in '80 then arguably went on a bit longer. Amazing that Borg had so many long win streaks in his career that only got interruped by walkovers(& retirements as well it seems)

Regardless I probably feel Vilas should have the record(though as urban said all news reports in 1977 said it was 50 match streak, not 46, it is a record that has apparently been altered by the atp over the years), even though according to their rules Borg should have it.

And the fact that he won so many matches in consecutive weeks, unlike Borg & Federer who did it over a longer period of time is pretty impressive(though he never got to play Borg during that streak in '77!), even though they were all on clay.
thanks for this information.
so indeed... they changed their mind and started considering a WO (from the considered player) does interrupt his streak.
that's really debatable... it was already stopping the "tournament winning streak", that's enough ! ;) (for the moment, this one is for borg & lendl with 8, right ?)
so let's say there are 2 different records :
- longest winning streak with or without WO
- longest winning streak without WO
i really hope roger will simplify all this. :)

and how would they consider an unfinished match (like vilas-connors at MC 1981) in such a streak ?... :rolleyes:

Steve Dykstra
03-08-2007, 06:49 AM
Good posts, Rosebud and Moose. I think the real quality problem with those streaks is the back to back tournament effect. Its much harder to win 3 or 4 events in 3 or 4 weeks than to have rest periods and carefully select events.

You are right that it is very difficult to win events back to back for many straight weeks, but it is no easy task to win many straight matches over half a year either. If the streak takes place over a long period of time, that is just a longer period of time that you have to stay in form. It must be very difficult to stay in top form for half a year or longer.

Moose Malloy
03-09-2007, 09:21 AM
Here are those wins at Rye by the way:
Rye, Harrison - Exhibición (29-8-77, Nueva York, clay outdoor)
+ Ion Tiriac (RUM) 7-5, 6-2
+ Matt Mitchell (EEUU) 6-2, 6-2
+ John McEnroe (EEUU) 6-1, 6-2
Final + Ilie Nastase (RUM) 6-2, 6-0


urban, can you give me some details on this Rye event? was it 16 draw, single elimination or round robin? I see that the date is listed as 8-29, the US Open started on 8-31, were all these matches just played in 2 days?
Its strange that the atp doesn't count this, but they count the pepsi grand slam which is only a 4 player event.

also did ashe have a long win streak in the 70s? i vaguely recall hearing he had a 30+ match win streak, but can't find one on itf or atp sites.

thanks for posting that link rosebud, I'm surprised they had a record of that event on the atp site(granted the spanish version) since they aren't acknowledging it.

urban
03-09-2007, 09:14 PM
I don't know details about the Rye event in 1977. Ashe had a long streak in the summer of 1968, when he won a series of amateur events (including the US champs at Boston) plus the first US open at Forest Hills. His series of (i think) 29 matches was stopped by Rosewall at the Southwest Pacific at LA.