PDA

View Full Version : Benchmark players?


10sfreak
03-04-2007, 03:00 PM
Could someone explain to me exactly what a "benchmark" player is? I've gone to the USTA website and watched the "presentation", I've even asked our local league coordinator about it, and I'm still not exactly sure what it means to be a benchmark player at a certain level. Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me.

Topaz
03-04-2007, 03:28 PM
I'm a benchmark 3.0. That means last year I advanced to some kind of championship play...in my case, districts.

I've been told that it will carry more 'weight' with the dynamic NTRP rating for those who play against me...and I'll be expected to win against 'regular' 3.0 players.

cak
03-04-2007, 03:30 PM
That player was verified by a verifier at Nationals or Sectionals and was determined to be a <insert rating here.> If they were verified while playing at Nationals their rating cannot be appealed.

The idea is, at Nationals the verifiers wander around and say "that guy's a good example of a 4.0 player" (Often this is said at the 3.5 Nationals...) So, end of the year ratings come out and he's a benchmark 4.0. All the guys that played him are then recalculated assuming he's a 4.0, and many of them are bumped up. So it then trickles down to the rest of the section. This means, if the players your section sends to sectionals benchmarks high, more people in your section will be bumped up. If your people at Nationals are benchmarked low, more people in your section will be bumped down at the end of the year.

cak
03-04-2007, 03:31 PM
Topaz is right, if you have districts, or states, there are verifiers there too. Anything above local league playoffs.

DrewRafter8
03-04-2007, 04:29 PM
So, if you beat a player who was a benchmark player and you were playing up, you are assured to be bumped up at the end? Is that correct? Although with the new rules in the Southern section, you can win all you want in tournaments at higher levels and not be bumped up.

tennis-n-sc
03-04-2007, 04:50 PM
That player was verified by a verifier at Nationals or Sectionals and was determined to be a <insert rating here.> If they were verified while playing at Nationals their rating cannot be appealed.

The idea is, at Nationals the verifiers wander around and say "that guy's a good example of a 4.0 player" (Often this is said at the 3.5 Nationals...) So, end of the year ratings come out and he's a benchmark 4.0. All the guys that played him are then recalculated assuming he's a 4.0, and many of them are bumped up. So it then trickles down to the rest of the section. This means, if the players your section sends to sectionals benchmarks high, more people in your section will be bumped up. If your people at Nationals are benchmarked low, more people in your section will be bumped down at the end of the year.

I believe it has nothing to do with verifiers. If you proceed to district, sectional or national, you become a benchmarked player, if you played. Topaz has it correct as I understand it.

10sfreak
03-04-2007, 05:52 PM
So basically, if you advance to state championships, then you automatically become a benchmark player? I went to state last year, played one match in doubles, and we got beat in a third set tie-break. Is that why/how I became a benchmark player? Thanks.

Nick Irons
03-04-2007, 05:55 PM
Could someone explain to me exactly what a "benchmark" player is? I've gone to the USTA website and watched the "presentation", I've even asked our local league coordinator about it, and I'm still not exactly sure what it means to be a benchmark player at a certain level. Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me.

It's when you get past the suck status of 3.5

:-D :p :o :D

Topaz
03-04-2007, 06:22 PM
So basically, if you advance to state championships, then you automatically become a benchmark player? I went to state last year, played one match in doubles, and we got beat in a third set tie-break. Is that why/how I became a benchmark player? Thanks.

Yes, that is how you became a benchmark.

Topaz
03-04-2007, 06:23 PM
So, if you beat a player who was a benchmark player and you were playing up, you are assured to be bumped up at the end? Is that correct? Although with the new rules in the Southern section, you can win all you want in tournaments at higher levels and not be bumped up.

Well, you won't necessarily be bumped right up if you beat a benchmark, but your dynamic NTRP will go up.

I don't know how it works in tournaments, if at all.

Topaz
03-04-2007, 06:24 PM
It's when you get past the suck status of 3.5



Then why are there 2.5 and 3.0 benchmarks?

If 3.5 if suck status, what do you call 3.0s? HUNH???? ;)

JLyon
03-04-2007, 07:15 PM
you might as well consider a win against a benchmark player as a strike in the dynamic ratings.

oldguysrule
03-04-2007, 08:05 PM
...I've been told that it will carry more 'weight' with the dynamic NTRP rating for those who play against me...and I'll be expected to win against 'regular' 3.0 players.

No, you have been given bad information. Benchmark means that you are a "regular" 3.0 that has advanced to championships. It carries no additional weight in the dynamic NTRP process.

oldguysrule
03-04-2007, 08:07 PM
you might as well consider a win against a benchmark player as a strike in the dynamic ratings.

Not true...The benchmark player could be at the bottom of the level.

oldguysrule
03-04-2007, 08:15 PM
So basically, if you advance to state championships, then you automatically become a benchmark player? I went to state last year, played one match in doubles, and we got beat in a third set tie-break. Is that why/how I became a benchmark player? Thanks.

That is correct. However, you are not a "benchmark player", you have a benchmark rating. For purposes of the dynamic process, it means no more or less than any other rating. It also does not mean that you are better than other players at your level.

If you advance to championship play as a 3.5 and then get bumped to 4.0, your 4.0 rating will be a benchmark rating.

Voltron
03-04-2007, 08:17 PM
Then why are there 2.5 and 3.0 benchmarks?

If 3.5 if suck status, what do you call 3.0s? HUNH???? ;)

So I guess because I'm a 4.5 I can say Nick has "suck status". ;)

Cindysphinx
03-04-2007, 08:21 PM
Say I play at districts this year. That makes me a benchmark 3.0.

This does not automatically mean I will move to 3.5 right?

If I don't move up to 3.5, can I be disqualified in the subsequent season?

Nick Irons
03-04-2007, 08:24 PM
Then why are there 2.5 and 3.0 benchmarks?

If 3.5 if suck status, what do you call 3.0s? HUNH???? ;)

:p :p ;) !!!

cak
03-04-2007, 08:35 PM
If you play in 3.0 districts this year you most likely will be a benchmark. Depending on what you game looks like, you'll be a benchmark 3.0 or a benchmark 3.5. (I've never heard of someone benchmarked below the level they were.) I've been told by guys working for NorCal that verifiers determine whether you will be benchmarked at your level or higher. The verifiers at districts and sectionals in NorCal can also DQ someone as being (too far) above level.

If you are a benchmark 3.0 you may be disqualified in the subsequent 3.0 season, but it is unlikely. To have three instances of your DNTRP showing you are not only a 3.5 player, but a high 3.5, almost 4.0 player. (I believe the strike range is .30 over, does anyone remember?)

JLyon
03-05-2007, 06:22 AM
I have been benchmarked plenty of times. you get a benchmark when you advance to any championship (city, state, district, regional, sectionals, nationals). I do not believe they do visual verifiers anymore. So if you get benchmarked it is not an automatic bump.

oldguysrule
03-05-2007, 06:56 AM
Say I play at districts this year. That makes me a benchmark 3.0.

This does not automatically mean I will move to 3.5 right?

If I don't move up to 3.5, can I be disqualified in the subsequent season?

Not because you have a benchmark rating. The DQ's only depend on your dynamic NTRP as the season progresses.

oldguysrule
03-05-2007, 07:04 AM
If you play in 3.0 districts this year you most likely will be a benchmark. Depending on what you game looks like, you'll be a benchmark 3.0 or a benchmark 3.5. (I've never heard of someone benchmarked below the level they were.) I've been told by guys working for NorCal that verifiers determine whether you will be benchmarked at your level or higher. The verifiers at districts and sectionals in NorCal can also DQ someone as being (too far) above level.

If you are a benchmark 3.0 you may be disqualified in the subsequent 3.0 season, but it is unlikely. To have three instances of your DNTRP showing you are not only a 3.5 player, but a high 3.5, almost 4.0 player. (I believe the strike range is .30 over, does anyone remember?)

Cak,
Can you clarify some things...?

First of all, I was under the impression that the Dynamic NTRP process took the place of verifiers.

Second of all, verifiers (if they exist) do not determine benchmark status...It is solely based on advancement to championship play.

Third, I thought the strike range was much lower than that, which is why you are not DQ'd on the first instance of being over level.

There may still be verifiers at Nationals (I have never been), but I am pretty sure they no longer exist at sectionals and below. I do not know this for sure.

Cindysphinx
03-05-2007, 07:08 AM
Also for CAK: If you are a 3.0 at districts and therefore a benchmark 3.0, how can you also be a benchmark 3.5 without play at the 3.5 level?

Is USTA *trying* to confuse me with all of this?

oldguysrule
03-05-2007, 07:12 AM
Also for CAK: If you are a 3.0 at districts and therefore a benchmark 3.0, how can you also be a benchmark 3.5 without play at the 3.5 level?

Is USTA *trying* to confuse me with all of this?

You have to put aside any preconcieved ideas about the benchmark designation. It simply means that you advanced to championship play. That's it, nothing more or less. So if you advanced to championship play your rating is a benchmark, even if you were bumped a level.

simi
03-05-2007, 08:36 AM
You have to put aside any preconcieved ideas about the benchmark designation. It simply means that you advanced to championship play. That's it, nothing more or less. So if you advanced to championship play your rating is a benchmark, even if you were bumped a level.

Correct! Advance to championships and you become a benchmarked player. If one advances to nationals, they are usually bumped up one level, and their rating is designated as benchmarked. That benchmark designation only lasts for one year. The next year, assuming one does not advance to championships at their new level, their rating will revert to the C designation (competition based rating).

JLyon
03-05-2007, 08:38 AM
Correct! Advance to championships and you become a benchmarked player. If one advances to nationals, they are usually bumped up one level, and their rating is designated as benchmarked. That benchmark designation only lasts for one year. The next year, assuming one does not advance to championships at their new level, their rating will revert to the C designation (competition based rating).

Usually at a team makes nationals you can expect roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of the players to be bumped up. Also they can not have more than 3 of the same players for the next league season compete on the same team, unless that rule has changed.

DrewRafter8
03-05-2007, 08:53 AM
BTW, Nick I'm jealous of you! You guys down in Wilmington have a wealth of 4.0+ players. We here north of you in the DownEast league don't have those numbers. I was discussing that in a recent tournament with a player from Wilmington...

Ace
03-05-2007, 10:43 AM
Say I play at districts this year. That makes me a benchmark 3.0.

This does not automatically mean I will move to 3.5 right?

If I don't move up to 3.5, can I be disqualified in the subsequent season?

First of all....get being "DQ'd" up right out of your head. If you have a computer rating, it is very difficult to get DQ'd. I have seen 3.5's kick butt at BOTH 3.5 AND 4.0 and still not get bumped up until the ratings came out at the end of the season. And I'm talking about people who, for the most part, are not dropping more than 4 games each match...all the way into sectional playoffs. "Self rated" players are another story....they get DQ'd a little too fast, I think.
Sure I suppose it could happen, and Cak probably has knowledge of some computer rated folks who got DQ'd midseason....but most likely, unless you are planning to double bagel everyone at 3.0 AND 3.5 this summer, you won't get bumped up until the ratings come out in November.

If you go to districts as a 3.0, you will become a "benchmark". Whether you will be a "benchmark 3.0" or a "benchmark 3.5" depends entirely on how you do dynamically this year AND how you do against the other players who get benchmarked this year. You could even become a "benchmark 2.5" if you get your butt kicked all season, but your team goes to districts anyway.

"Benchmark" doesn't mean you are good or bad, it just means you went to the playoffs. And if you don't personally play in the playoffs, even though your team goes, you will not be "Benchmarked".

Cindysphinx
03-05-2007, 01:32 PM
OK, so if I play all my matches at 3.0 and go to districts, I would be either a benchmark 3.0 or a benchmark 3.5, just depending on what the computer does with me at the end of the year.

Got it! Thanks everyone. I never understood this before.

10sfreak
03-05-2007, 06:04 PM
So being benchmark rated simply means you've been to state or above? If that's all it means, it sounds like a pretty useless designation to me...

amarone
03-05-2007, 08:20 PM
So being benchmark rated simply means you've been to state or above? If that's all it means, it sounds like a pretty useless designation to me... The benchmark players are used by the computer to "calibrate" the ratings for everyone else when the national ratings are run every year. Presumably this is useful because it allows cailbration of players across different regions and sections, thereby preventing individual regions from getting out of whack.

Ace
03-06-2007, 04:13 AM
So being benchmark rated simply means you've been to state or above? If that's all it means, it sounds like a pretty useless designation to me...

No, it means you've played at Districts or above.
And like amarone said, they are used to help calculate your rating at the end of the year.

raiden031
03-06-2007, 08:03 AM
Does everyone on the team get a benchmark rating, or only those who play in a playoff match, or do they have to win a playoff match?

I verified that a guy I know who went to nationals last year and was bumped up from 3.0 to 3.5 does have a benchmark 3.5 rating.

oldguysrule
03-06-2007, 08:46 AM
Does everyone on the team get a benchmark rating, or only those who play in a playoff match, or do they have to win a playoff match?

I verified that a guy I know who went to nationals last year and was bumped up from 3.0 to 3.5 does have a benchmark 3.5 rating.

Only those who play in a district (or higher) playoff.

Raiden.Kaminari
03-09-2007, 01:59 AM
Playing Districts and beyond does indeed give you a benchmark rating.

However, once you get a national benchmark rating (ie. by going to nationals), it can't be appealed for 2 years unless there is a medical appeal (for a permanent and disabling injury).

Raiden.Kaminari
03-09-2007, 02:10 AM
So, if you beat a player who was a benchmark player and you were playing up, you are assured to be bumped up at the end? Is that correct? Although with the new rules in the Southern section, you can win all you want in tournaments at higher levels and not be bumped up.

No.

Everything depends on your DNTRP average, as well as the score differential. In many cases, you will generate a strike. It's hard to explain the algorithm, but it goes something like this:

Against a normal player, let's say 3.20 (ie. 3.5 player), you beat them 6-0, 6-0.

Scenario A:
As a new self-rate, you would generate a rating of 3.55 (ie. 4.0 player) for this match alone.

Scenario B:
You had a rating of 3.20 at the start of the season, but you greatly improved. Your opponent had a long history of playing at 3.5, but you started playing recently. In this case, the differential would be used against you, but this time giving you a rating of 3.46, while pushing them downwards towards 3.11.

Scenario C:
Same thing as B, but this time you played against someone who just went to Nationals. Your DNTRP would be pushed up to 3.55, since their rating won't go below their benchmark rating.

Raiden.Kaminari
03-09-2007, 02:18 AM
I have been benchmarked plenty of times. you get a benchmark when you advance to any championship (city, state, district, regional, sectionals, nationals). I do not believe they do visual verifiers anymore. So if you get benchmarked it is not an automatic bump.

Mostly true ... Verifiers can be hired if you suspect that you need to file a self-rating grievance against an opponent.

I've been told by guys working for NorCal that verifiers determine whether you will be benchmarked at your level or higher. The verifiers at districts and sectionals in NorCal can also DQ someone as being (too far) above level.

Your information may be incorrect. There may be people who are present and can act as verifiers. But they can't do anything until a self-rating (or administrative) grievance is submitted. Their testimony is then added to the grievance.