Taking a pill/tablet/powder is rarely the solution....

[OrangeOne]

I'm amazed, astounded even, at how pill-popping the world is becoming, based on a random sample of these boards alone.

Hi, I want to gain weight....what substance should I take?
Hi, I want to lose weight....what substance should I take?
Hi, my knee is sore....what substance should I take?
Hi, I have to backup from one sporting activity to another....what substance should I take?I've seen all of these posts, many times over on these boards. Depressingly, it's not just the domain of the old & decrepit, but also the middle-aged and wealthy as well as the young & somewhat stupid!

Personally, I'm not anti-medication, I know it has it's uses. But geez, I'll avoid it until I know it's necessary, and then, and only then, will I take what is prescribed to me by a professional (and not what I think I can get cheap based on the advice of a kid on the 'net!).

If you want to gain or lose weight - hydrate right, eat right and exercise more. If you have movement pain / joint pain: go see a sports physio and get your body fixed, don't just try and cover the pain with a pill. If you need to perform at a higher level, train harder!

Life is so simple, and yet it seems everyone wants chemical shortcuts to make very simple things occur quicker.

Is the trend really as bad as these boards make it seem?

[CanadianChic]

Excellent post OO.

[SlapShot]

To be honest, it depends on the situation. I do agree with you somewhat, but there are times that a supplement really helps you get to a certain level. I drink whey protein, simply because to maintain my level of muscular fitness, I need to consume a high amount of protein, and eating that much meat would be tremendouly difficult. I also take flaxseed oil, which helps reduce inflammation. I don't look at either supplement as a fix-all, but it definitely helps me train at the level that I prefer to train at.

[Supernatural_Serve]

To be honest, it depends on the situation. I do agree with you somewhat, but there are times that a supplement really helps you get to a certain level.yea, especially if the problem is arthirtis and joint inflamation related.

[BiGGieStuFF]

To be honest, it depends on the situation. I do agree with you somewhat, but there are times that a supplement really helps you get to a certain level. I drink whey protein, simply because to maintain my level of muscular fitness, I need to consume a high amount of protein, and eating that much meat would be tremendouly difficult. I also take flaxseed oil, which helps reduce inflammation. I don't look at either supplement as a fix-all, but it definitely helps me train at the level that I prefer to train at.
I'm in the same situation with the protein. Taking the whey allows me to cut out an amount of meats in my diet. Even lean meats contain some amount of fat. I used to be pretty carnivorous so taking the whey helps me cut back on the fat intake, while still obtaining the protein I need for muscle repair and development.

[ollinger]

"Some amount" of fat is necessary....a surgeon I know put himself on a fat free diet and found that his hair began to fall out and his skin deteriorated. A little fat in the diet is a good thing. As for pills, I think some things are overprescribed (stimulants for presumed A.D.D., for example) but most people's concerns about "too many pills" are based on personal bias rather than evidence. The Japanese take more pills than Americans (in part because of a negotiation years ago between the doctors there and the government that allowed doctors to sell meds directly to patients) and they continue to lead the world in longevity. I agree that on this board too many people think physical abuse (playing tennis several hours a day) can be reversed with pills or supplements, and there's just not very much evidence of that. Pros aren't retiring these days in their 20s because they're "old."

[SlapShot]

"Some amount" of fat is necessary....a surgeon I know put himself on a fat free diet and found that his hair began to fall out and his skin deteriorated. A little fat in the diet is a good thing.

It's not just fats as a whole, it is good fats that help your body. Omega-3 and Omega-6 fats are some of the things that are lacking in most people's diets, and they do wonders for your skin, joints, and health as a whole.

[BiGGieStuFF]

"Some amount" of fat is necessary....a surgeon I know put himself on a fat free diet and found that his hair began to fall out and his skin deteriorated. A little fat in the diet is a good thing. As for pills, I think some things are overprescribed (stimulants for presumed A.D.D., for example) but most people's concerns about "too many pills" are based on personal bias rather than evidence. The Japanese take more pills than Americans (in part because of a negotiation years ago between the doctors there and the government that allowed doctors to sell meds directly to patients) and they continue to lead the world in longevity. I agree that on this board too many people think physical abuse (playing tennis several hours a day) can be reversed with pills or supplements, and there's just not very much evidence of that. Pros aren't retiring these days in their 20s because they're "old."

Definitely, but i try to get those fats from fish, nuts, and chicken instead of the super fatty red meats I love so much :). *drool* ribeye steak sandwich!!

[SlapShot]

I cut all red meat out of my diet for 4 years, and replaced it with chicken and fish, and promptly lost 10 pounds. I've worked it back in slowly but surely in order to get more iron in my diet, and I have reaquired my taste for it. It's amazing how much you stop missing things after you don't consume them for a while.

[BiGGieStuFF]

I cut all red meat out of my diet for 4 years, and replaced it with chicken and fish, and promptly lost 10 pounds. I've worked it back in slowly but surely in order to get more iron in my diet, and I have reaquired my taste for it. It's amazing how much you stop missing things after you don't consume them for a while.

I love beef way too much to give it all up. Props to vegetarians though. That's too much of a sacrifice for me.

[OrangeOne]

I drink whey protein, simply because to maintain my level of muscular fitness, I need to consume a high amount of protein, and eating that much meat would be tremendouly difficult.

A. Do you really need that much protein? It's in the interest of the 'fitness industry' (read: the supplement sellers) to tell you that you need stupendous amounts, when in reality, the amounts I've read in studies (a while back) were much less than the fitness industry tells you. Peeing out excess protein makes for expensive pee.

B. You're aware of all of the non-meat sources of protein, right? Egg whites are a fantastically lean source of protein. Proteins that come with fish (esp. tuna) come with good fats, as others pointed out.

C. There have been fit, muscular, lean people on earth throughout the ages, well before the existence of protein-powders.

I also take flaxseed oil, which helps reduce inflammation. I don't look at either supplement as a fix-all, but it definitely helps me train at the level that I prefer to train at.

Uhuh. I can understand this one, much closer to a natural product than Tylenol or whatever. It's pretty obvious where Flaxseed oil comes from, less obvious where random chemicals in random tablets come from.

yea, especially if the problem is arthirtis and joint inflamation related.

True, these chronic problems have been shown to only improve with some medication (often in a natural or quasi-natural form, I might add). But they are chronic problems, they're not a cold or just someone being overweight or someone having undiagnosed knee pain.

I'm in the same situation with the protein. Taking the whey allows me to cut out an amount of meats in my diet. Even lean meats contain some amount of fat.

How much do you know about the different sorts of fat? If you're forking out for protein-in-a-box, I hope you know about the different classes of fats and the needs of the body for each!

The Japanese take more pills than Americans (in part because of a negotiation years ago between the doctors there and the government that allowed doctors to sell meds directly to patients)

Really? Japanese people consume more medication per capita than americans? I'm somewhat astounded. Have you a link to a study / article on this?

[SlapShot]

A. Do you really need that much protein? It's in the interest of the 'fitness industry' (read: the supplement sellers) to tell you that you need stupendous amounts, when in reality, the amounts I've read in studies (a while back) were much less than the fitness industry tells you. Peeing out excess protein makes for expensive pee.

B. You're aware of all of the non-meat sources of protein, right? Egg whites are a fantastically lean source of protein. Proteins that come with fish (esp. tuna) come with good fats, as others pointed out.

C. There have been fit, muscular, lean people on earth throughout the ages, well before the existence of protein-powders.




In regards to my protein intake, I rarely (as little as possible) consume red meat, and only eat poultry and fish as far as meat goes. Being that I work a 55 hour week, it's tough for me to even get enough protein through conventional meat sources, hence the reason that I use additional protein in my diet.

I really don't like eggs as a food, and I try and eat fish/other seafood at least twice a week.

I have actually lost fat when I upped my protein intake, and it's possible that it's a factor of other changes in my diet (no HFCS, etc), but I'm willing to spend the $30/month for extra protein in my diet to keep myself in shape.

[Ano]

Do you really need that much protein? It's in the interest of the 'fitness industry' (read: the supplement sellers) to tell you that you need stupendous amounts, when in reality, the amounts I've read in studies (a while back) were much less than the fitness industry tells you. Peeing out excess protein makes for expensive pee.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=8700446&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=12&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=7550257&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=12&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=8072059&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=12&itool=pubmed_docsum

Hi pal, The Lemon studies clearly show that strength exercisers need 1.7 - 1.8 grams of protein / kilogram bodyweight (about 0.8 grams protein/pound bodyweight).

But I recommend 1 gram of protein/pound of bodyweight for an athlete who wants to optimize performance and his/her body composition (gaining muscle and/or losing fat).

Why I recommend more than the Lemon studies. I will explain why. As with vitamins and other nutrients, you identify what looks to be the precise amount of the compound needed for the effect you want (in this case positive nitrogen balance, increased protein synthesis, etc) and add a margin of safety to account for the biochemical individuality of different people, the fact that there are low grade protein sources the person might be eating, and other variables.

So the current recommendation by the majority of writers, coaches, and others of one gram per pound of bodyweight does a good job of taking into account the current research and adding a margin of safety. One things for sure, a little too much protein is far less detrimental to the athletes goal(s) of optimizing body composition than too little protein.

And if you want to know, expert like John Berardi PhD recommends 3-4 grams of protein / kilogram bodyweight for hard training athletes (athletes who work out 3-5 hours / day). And he is not trying to sell protein supplement, because he says the majority of protein you consume should come from whole foods, not supplement.

[Ano]

How much do you know about the different sorts of fat? If you're forking out for protein-in-a-box, I hope you know about the different classes of fats and the needs of the body for each!



Pal, your question was not directed to me. But please allow me to jump in.

I do know the different sort of fat like :Butyric Acid, Caproic Acid, Caprylic, Capric Acid, Lauric Acid , Myristic Acid, Palmitic Acid, Stearic Acid, Arachidic Acid, Palmitoleic Acid, Oleic Acid, Linoleic Acid, Linolenic Acid, Gamma-Linolenic Acid, Stearidonic Acid, Arachidonic Acid, Eicosapentaenoic Acid, Docosahexaenoic Acid. ;)

[Ano]

B. You're aware of all of the non-meat sources of protein, right? Egg whites are a fantastically lean source of protein. Proteins that come with fish (esp. tuna) come with good fats, as others pointed out.



Yup, but which one is more convenience, consume 1 scoop of whey protein powder (22-24 grams of protein) or scramble 7-8 egg whites?

Not even close in my book.

Tuna is a good source of protein and good fats, but the smell will give the majority of us a hard time to eat it.

Oh, btw, I apoligize for replying by using many posts. I don't know how to use the multiple quote.

[OrangeOne]

Yup, but which one is more convenience, consume 1 scoop of whey protein powder (22-24 grams of protein) or scramble 7-8 egg whites?

Not even close in my book.

Ano, Ano, Ano.... I felt sure you'd be on the side of "real, whole foods" here, instead of supplementation!

Tuna is a good source of protein and good fats, but the smell will give the majority of us a hard time to eat it.

Tuna, chicken, egg whites, other fish, seeds, light milks, soooo many good sources of natural protein out there that doesn't require dipping a plastic scoop into a tub!

Oh, btw, I apoligize for replying by using many posts. I don't know how to use the multiple quote.

Simply click the multi-quote button on each post you wish to reply to (it'll change to red in colour), and then the quote button on the last.

I do know the different sort of fat like :Butyric Acid, Caproic Acid, Caprylic, Capric Acid, Lauric Acid , Myristic Acid, Palmitic Acid, Stearic Acid, Arachidic Acid, Palmitoleic Acid, Oleic Acid, Linoleic Acid, Linolenic Acid, Gamma-Linolenic Acid, Stearidonic Acid, Arachidonic Acid, Eicosapentaenoic Acid, Docosahexaenoic Acid. ;)

Well I was kind of thinking of important nutritional groups of fats for the average joe to be aware of (Sat, Mono-Unsat, Poly-Unsat, maybe Trans as well), but you definitely get bonus points for that list!

So the current recommendation by the majority of writers, coaches, and others of one gram per pound of bodyweight does a good job of taking into account the current research and adding a margin of safety. One things for sure, a little too much protein is far less detrimental to the athletes goal(s) of optimizing body composition than too little protein.

Thanks for all of the info, in many ways your posts are good as they bring me back up to date. Even on 1 gram / lb bodyweight - there we are talking heavily training individuals, most all people on these boards will never train that hard.

Nonetheless, I still maintain that it's unlikely that the body (perhaps in all but the super-elite) needs more protein than could easily be acquired in a healthy high-calorie diet. But that's just me....

[BiGGieStuFF]

I definitely need the protein intake i'm ingesting. I don't get to 1gram per pound everyday considering i'm 185. That's a lot of protein but I feel I'm active enough to use it. I play tennis 3-4 times a week. workout 2-3 times a week. Martial arts about 2-3 times a week and basketball about 1-2 times a week. That's a lot of wear and tear on the body. I'll do whatever I can to alleviate it. I'll probably be kicking myself in the butt when I'm old and breaking down but I enjoy it too much to give it up. The key word here is supplement, not replacement. I'm not replacing my entire protein intake with just shakes. I'm cutting out the meats that are bad for me and replacing them with the good meats and adding to that as well.

I only eat small meals and it would be hard for me to reach my optimal protein intake w/o the shakes that's for sure. I can't speak for other supplements such as creatine or other mass gainers but protein is as natural as it gets.

[Ano]

Ano, Ano, Ano.... I felt sure you'd be on the side of "real, whole foods" here, instead of supplementation!



Okay, let me explain my position on this :

I do recommend people to take the majority of their calories from whole, unprocessed, unrefined foods.

If you want to build muscle and/or lose fat and you can get 0.8 - 1 gram protein / pound bodyweight per day divided into 6 meals from skinless chicken breast, egg whites, skim milk, low fat cottage cheese, fish and lean beef, you DON'T need protein supplement (exception : for post workout nutrition I recommend you to take carbohydrate/protein drink mix).

But for someone who cannot eat 6 times a day because of his schedule don't allow him (like myself), a meal replacement or protein supplement is a way to go.

Btw pal, eventhough we have a different opinion on this one, I still like to have a discussion with you.

[dcottrill]

Oh, btw, I apoligize for replying by using many posts. I don't know how to use the multiple quote.

Simply click the multi-quote button on each post you wish to reply to (it'll change to red in colour), and then the quote button on the last.

Cool. I didn't know how to do that either.

Thanks!