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FEDEX1
04-06-2007, 07:26 PM
i was just wondering how good you would have to be to make a div. 2 college team. like what ntrp level are the average of the players. i know there are probably big variations between bigger and smaller schools but i just want to get some idea. thanks in advanced!!!:-D

35ft6
04-06-2007, 09:13 PM
The top schools are very good, and they can pretty much hang with top 50 D-1 teams. The top guys could play number 2, 3, or 4 singles for some of the very best D-1 teams.

But there are plenty of crappy D-2 teams as well. I can't even imagine what the average NTRP ratings are but the very best players are strong 6.0, and the very good players are 5.5 to 6.0, and the solid players are 5.0 to 5.5.

EZRA
04-07-2007, 04:38 AM
D2 players are mostly 5.0 and up ... I played D2 and I was a strong 5.0
--
By the way... this is League Tennis section of the forum.

FEDEX1
04-07-2007, 05:45 AM
o ok thanks. i wasnt sure where to put it so i just put it in the adult league section cuse i thought you guys would know about college stuff

LoveThisGame
04-07-2007, 12:05 PM
A few D-III schools are very strong and play some D-II and D-I schools.

Kaptain Karl
04-07-2007, 12:25 PM
I thought about moving this thread ... but I couldn't find a Sub-forum where it fit any "better"....

NCAA Div II teams are really varied in ability levels. I'd expand on what 35ft6 posted and say "generally, from 4.5 - 6.0."

- KK

Sakumo
04-07-2007, 12:35 PM
The top schools are very good, and they can pretty much hang with top 50 D-1 teams. The top guys could play number 2, 3, or 4 singles for some of the very best D-1 teams.

But there are plenty of crappy D-2 teams as well. I can't even imagine what the average NTRP ratings are but the very best players are strong 6.0, and the very good players are 5.5 to 6.0, and the solid players are 5.0 to 5.5.

nononononoonno. Isner is a 6.0 and barely. Most D2 colleges have freshman at the 5.0 level, and some even 4.5. But I am sure the good D2 have some around 5.5, but I'd have to say 6.0 is pushing it no offense.

(Donald Y. is a good example of a strong 6.0 maybe 6.5, Isner would get whooped by Young, IMHO.)

Edit: Actually you might be right, on some of the best D2 colleges, their #1 player is probably 5.5, easy.

martymule
04-07-2007, 05:49 PM
I played DII tennis 10 years ago (wow, time flies!) and I would say that the talent level really fluctuates. I would say that I was an average DII player, and I was probably a strong 4.0 at the time. I played number 4 on my team and we had a conference that had some nationally ranked teams and some really crappy ones too (all depended on which schools had scholarship money to give). Some matches I would play against some kid from Sweden who would have certainly been able to play at a good DI school and some matches I played against some kids who would not have made my high school line up. DII is funny in general in that it doesn't really have a niche. I think DI is serious athetics and DIII can be downright horrible at some sports. DII is a tweener.

35ft6
04-07-2007, 07:44 PM
nononononoonno. Isner is a 6.0 and barely. He can pretty much be considered a 7.0 player more or less. 6.0 is a very strong Open level player, who can also be the number 3 to 6 on a D-1 team depending on the team's strength. When you've beaten a top 300 ATP player, and are ranked number 1 in D-1 college, you're way better than 6.0. He beat Michael Russell two years ago for frog's sakes.Most D2 colleges have freshman at the 5.0 level, and some even 4.5. But I am sure the good D2 have some around 5.5, but I'd have to say 6.0 is pushing it no offense. No offense taken, but even the top 2 guys in D-3 are legitimate 6.0. Maybe it's a combination of overestimating what 6.0 means, while simultaneously underestimating D-2 level tennis. Those guys are no joke. Like I said, they can push top 50 D-1 teams, and perhaps beat top 100 teams. The number 1 guy for U of West Florida had an ATP high ranking of 827. Here's the bio for the number 3 ranked guy in D-2: Born June 15, 1983...Is an Exercise and Sports Science major at Drury...Finished the 2005-06 season with a 19-3 singles record and 24-9 in doubles play...Defeated Izak van der Merwe, once ranked #9 in NCAA-I while at Old Dominion, 7-6, (4), 6-3 at the Freeman Challenger Wild Card Event...Was ranked top six in Sweden in junior competition and was top 50 in Sweden...Played for coach Stefan Aslin at Katedralskolan High School. The top D-2 guys can play for almost any D-1 school, but they tend to play at school that have a tradition of recruiting from certain countries. A lot of them played on the tour.(Donald Y. is a good example of a strong 6.0 maybe 6.5, Isner would get whooped by Young, IMHO.) Donald Young is 7.0 player. He's a joke on these boards, and in the ATP world he's getting clowned, but he's still a world class tennis player. A 16 yo who wins a junior slam is NOT a 6.0 player.

I think you're just overestimating what 6.0 means. Percentage wise, a 6.0 player is rare, but in terms of numbers, there are thousands out there, and college tennis is swarming with them.

35ft6
04-07-2007, 11:47 PM
I think DI is serious athetics and DIII can be downright horrible at some sports. DII is a tweener. Some D-1 teams are jokes also.

tandayu
04-07-2007, 11:58 PM
The DII level varies in very wide range.

I played DII in mid 80s. Our team consist of decent 4.0 and 5.0. WE have several wins like 6-0,6-0 sets on some DII teams, but we also lost several 1-6,0-6 sets to top ten divII in the nation.

In D1, everybody is up there....

35ft6
04-08-2007, 01:35 AM
I played D-2 tennis my freshman year. I played number 1, mostly because, I think, a lot of the guys on my team were people I smoked during juniors, so even though I hadn't touched a racket in about 2-1/2 years, I pushed my way to the top spot. They were spooked. I should have lost the last challenge match.

I won 2 matches the whole year. I played, I think, 3 Americans the whole year. Just European after European. At first, I thought it would all come back soon and I would compete near the end of the season, but it never really did. It was embarrassing after a while, lucky that my team was so fun and nobody took it super super seriously. Part of the problem was that I changed to an eastern grip from a western forehand grip after my layoff. During that time off, Sampras had made an impression. A bad one.

It wasn't until my junior year that I actually started playing well again.

35ft6
04-08-2007, 01:41 AM
In D1, everybody is up there....You only really hear about the best teams. There must be a few hundred D-1 teams out there and some are awful. Like Fordham in the Bronx. I mean, the is comprised of players who are better than 95% of the recreational players out there, but for a college team they're bad. My team used to beat them all the time. But they had a really good number 1 back then. Rest of the team was bad. I beat the number two 1 and 1, and I'm no superstar.

edit: in doubles, our strategy was simply to keep the ball away from the number 1 singles player... he was really good, like 6.0 open level solid... and he was getting really frustrated. He knew it, we knew it, his partner was a bit humiliated for knowing it I know, but everybody knew we were just going to keep hitting the ball at the number 2 guy. It was actually amazing how the number 1 guy managed to hit so many winners off anything he touched. Or maybe I'm only remembering the spectacular shots at this point. Anyway...

FEDEX1
04-08-2007, 05:13 AM
does anyone know if Boston University is a good Div-I school?

tandayu
04-08-2007, 12:16 PM
You only really hear about the best teams. There must be a few hundred D-1 teams out there and some are awful. Like Fordham in the Bronx. I mean, the is comprised of players who are better than 95% of the recreational players out there, but for a college team they're bad. My team used to beat them all the time. But they had a really good number 1 back then. Rest of the team was bad. I beat the number two 1 and 1, and I'm no superstar.

edit: in doubles, our strategy was simply to keep the ball away from the number 1 singles player... he was really good, like 6.0 open level solid... and he was getting really frustrated. He knew it, we knew it, his partner was a bit humiliated for knowing it I know, but everybody knew we were just going to keep hitting the ball at the number 2 guy. It was actually amazing how the number 1 guy managed to hit so many winners off anything he touched. Or maybe I'm only remembering the spectacular shots at this point. Anyway...


My luck, never had those soft D1 team. We always get beaten up by D1 we played against. They all came from overseas......usually fill in #1 to #4.

andfor
04-08-2007, 12:34 PM
does anyone know if Boston University is a good Div-I school?

I would say by the looks of things they are not very good.
http://www.collegetennisonline.com/view/team.asp?tmId=16
Judge for yourself. Notice they did lose to an good NAIA team.

Sakumo
04-08-2007, 11:02 PM
He can pretty much be considered a 7.0 player more or less. 6.0 is a very strong Open level player, who can also be the number 3 to 6 on a D-1 team depending on the team's strength. When you've beaten a top 300 ATP player, and are ranked number 1 in D-1 college, you're way better than 6.0. He beat Michael Russell two years ago for frog's sakes. No offense taken, but even the top 2 guys in D-3 are legitimate 6.0. Maybe it's a combination of overestimating what 6.0 means, while simultaneously underestimating D-2 level tennis. Those guys are no joke. Like I said, they can push top 50 D-1 teams, and perhaps beat top 100 teams. The number 1 guy for U of West Florida had an ATP high ranking of 827. Here's the bio for the number 3 ranked guy in D-2: The top D-2 guys can play for almost any D-1 school, but they tend to play at school that have a tradition of recruiting from certain countries. A lot of them played on the tour. Donald Young is 7.0 player. He's a joke on these boards, and in the ATP world he's getting clowned, but he's still a world class tennis player. A 16 yo who wins a junior slam is NOT a 6.0 player.

I think you're just overestimating what 6.0 means. Percentage wise, a 6.0 player is rare, but in terms of numbers, there are thousands out there, and college tennis is swarming with them.

Hmm well honestly, I've played a lot of ITF tourneys and am fairly highly ranked, but I call myself a 6.0. :S, and for the record I have played Donald, lol. But if you want to talk more about my ranking and wins, tell me and we can email, I don't like people knowing who I am on these boards, but I assume you can keep it between us if we email.

35ft6
04-09-2007, 03:19 PM
^ Your rankings and accomplishments aren't really relevant to this. I think calling the number 1 player in college, a person who's beaten ATP players ranked as high as 300, "barely 6.0" is way off base.

How did you do against Donald?

FEDEX1
04-09-2007, 05:06 PM
you played donald young? you must be sick

serveitup911
04-09-2007, 05:17 PM
Over the summer, I beat a guy who was currently #5 in the US in DII singles. I play around #3 for my DI team ranked #65, so you do the math about how good DII teams are.

Sakumo
04-09-2007, 07:45 PM
^ Your rankings and accomplishments aren't really relevant to this. I think calling the number 1 player in college, a person who's beaten ATP players ranked as high as 300, "barely 6.0" is way off base.

How did you do against Donald?

I did alright. Wasn't a bad lost, but I definitely felt like I should have won the match. ;). Why I was talking about my ranking is so we could maybe get a base as to why I call myself a 6.0 player and not a 7.0 as you might say I was. Maybe I am just underestimating myself, I dunno. I have just always called myself a 6.0.

10ispro
04-09-2007, 07:53 PM
I really have no idea why people only focus on Top teams and the player levels and range of Top teams. Realistically the majority of people who make a post asking about the levels of Colleges, probally wont be in contention to goto a Top team or at least play in the top of the line up as a freshman.

The range of DII can be anywhere from 2.0 and up. As someone pointed out earlier, there are hundreds of D1 schools who are absolutely horrible, who cant fill their rosters and basically take any able body who can walk and swing a racquet and make contact with a ball.
DII,DIII and other college teams are no different. It really depends on the school, the conference, reputation of the school, type of coaching (some coaches recruit to have good teams, others rely on building the teams with what they can get.)

Of course, Schools which traditionally have a strong program, have a bigger budget for Tennis which isnt a revenue sport, will attract better players. But there are literally hundreds of schools looking to just fill spots on the Varsity starting roster.

35ft6
04-10-2007, 04:47 AM
Over the summer, I beat a guy who was currently #5 in the US in DII singles. I play around #3 for my DI team ranked #65, so you do the math about how good DII teams are. Here's what happened between the 1 ranked D-2 team versus the 7th ranked D-1 team. (http://www.collegetennisonline.com/view/teamscoresheet.asp?scseId=128786&tmId=725)

Here's how the same D-1 team did against the 53rd ranked team in D-1 (http://www.collegetennisonline.com/view/teamscoresheet.asp?scseId=130976&tmId=167). The D-2 team better.

andfor
04-10-2007, 11:25 AM
.......there are hundreds of D1 schools who are absolutely horrible, who cant fill their rosters and basically take any able body who can walk and swing a racquet and make contact with a ball.
.......

Hundreds? How many D1 teams are there? I am curious to know the number of Men's teams and Womens teams? Do you know or know where we could find out?

texastennis06
04-10-2007, 01:44 PM
Even with DIV I ranked teams, some of them are pretty terrible. Most teams under 40 can't handle a top 20 teams and get dismantled. Of course there are exceptions. The disparity of the talent pool is obviously the reason for this, such as my team has a lot of Euro implants. I have noticed though increasingly on the women's side, that even at schools such as KSTATE they are getting a hefty international pool of players. This is why even some of the top DII programs are ridicously good on the Women's side. Some of the matches that we (Baylor) have had this year, weren't even close to being a contest, we got a great trip to Hawaii though. We'll definitely have our work cut out for us on Thursday against UGA though.

serveitup911
04-10-2007, 05:51 PM
35ft6, I normally agree with what you say.

However, indirect results mean absolutely nothing.

We beat Georgia Tech who beat Flordia State. Does that mean we're better than Florida state? Georgia Tech also beat Clemson. Are we better that Clemson?

We beat Kentucky who beat #15 Alabama. Are we better than Alabama?

serveitup911
04-10-2007, 05:55 PM
Texas, are you Jamie or Michael? Have you gotten to play any matches?

35ft6
04-11-2007, 03:07 AM
35ft6, I normally agree with what you say.

However, indirect results mean absolutely nothing. That's true, it doesn't say anything definitive, but it's still a match that actually happened, and it's no worse than the example you cited, which was one match -- I'm providing 9 matches. It can be interpreted in a few different ways but it does seem to say that the top D-2 teams are decent even by D-1 standards.

NebAce1
04-11-2007, 02:17 PM
I did alright. Wasn't a bad lost, but I definitely felt like I should have won the match. ;).

What was the score?

grothman
07-29-2007, 08:12 PM
I just saw a current DivII kid that is a top of the line 4.0 legitimately. Someone filed a USTA fairplay grievance against him and it was overturned based on junior record/play.

BabblingPsychopath
07-30-2007, 05:43 AM
Hundreds? How many D1 teams are there? I am curious to know the number of Men's teams and Womens teams? Do you know or know where we could find out?

I'm sure you could find out at www.itatennis.com

I think (guessing) there are about 200 D1 teams.

JLyon
07-30-2007, 05:48 AM
There is easily 2-3x more Womens teams than men's teams thanks to Title IX.
Also Women can have 8 scholarships given out while men have to make due with 4.5.

lostinamerica
07-30-2007, 05:54 AM
I have seen Division II players anywhere from 5.5 to 3.0 (even once, I saw a guy who was real beginner; 2.5 might be being kind. He had walked on and got the number 6 slot out of default). Some teams cannot even fill out a roster. If you go to a small college that is struggling, you might find they are begging for bodies.

This is why when I hear a person say they played college tennis, I need to know more to evaluate how good they are. Also, just because a person played college tennis does not mean they are really at least a 4.5.

grothman
07-30-2007, 02:19 PM
I have seen Division II players anywhere from 5.5 to 3.0 (even once, I saw a guy who was real beginner; 2.5 might be being kind. He had walked on and got the number 6 slot out of default). Some teams cannot even fill out a roster. If you go to a small college that is struggling, you might find they are begging for bodies.

This is why when I hear a person say they played college tennis, I need to know more to evaluate how good they are. Also, just because a person played college tennis does not mean they are really at least a 4.5.


I agree. My buddy played doubles at a DivIII school in college and he's a legitimate USTA 3.0 player. I think a lot of DivII and DivIII colleges drop off after the 3rd player or so

WBF
07-30-2007, 02:54 PM
I agree. My buddy played doubles at a DivIII school in college and he's a legitimate USTA 3.0 player. I think a lot of DivII and DivIII colleges drop off after the 3rd player or so

Some teams have no good players. Some have a few. Others have more good players than playing spots. All depends on the team...

grothman
07-30-2007, 05:54 PM
Not to get too far off topic but you all were talking about pro people and NTRPs. A good friend of mine was top 200 on the womens atp tour like 6 years ago. She's 31 years old now and went to selfrate on the USTA site this past year and it put her at 5.5. We also had a girl who played at UK who was ranked top100 in singles in college and was top20 in doubles. When she selfrated, it allowed her to play 5.0.

BravoRed691
07-30-2007, 11:48 PM
I agree. My buddy played doubles at a DivIII school in college and he's a legitimate USTA 3.0 player. I think a lot of DivII and DivIII colleges drop off after the 3rd player or so

I Darn myself for not going to a D-III school then!!! Darn, Darn, Darn! Darn myself to heck!

BR

kevhen
07-31-2007, 05:59 AM
A girl here who is top 10 in state is going to a DII school on a tennis scholarship and she hangs with 4.0 men and she competes in open women's tennis so I think she is 5.0 women's level, 4.5 at a minimum.

These are what I see common in this area and the usual range.
High school 3.5 (3.0-4.5)
DIII 4.0 (3.5-5.0)
DII 4.5
D1 5.0-5.5 (5.0-6.0)

dizneeland
07-31-2007, 06:30 AM
I played DII tennis 10 years ago (wow, time flies!) and I would say that the talent level really fluctuates. I would say that I was an average DII player, and I was probably a strong 4.0 at the time. I played number 4 on my team and we had a conference that had some nationally ranked teams and some really crappy ones too (all depended on which schools had scholarship money to give). Some matches I would play against some kid from Sweden who would have certainly been able to play at a good DI school and some matches I played against some kids who would not have made my high school line up. DII is funny in general in that it doesn't really have a niche. I think DI is serious athetics and DIII can be downright horrible at some sports. DII is a tweener.

That was my experience when I played DII 10+ years ago. I was in the GLIAC and we had the full range. I would guess that the breakdown was something like this:

3.5 - 5%
4.0 - 55%
4.5 - 30%
5.0+ - 10%

WBF
07-31-2007, 06:33 AM
kevhen: really?

I've seen high school players who look like they just picked up a racquet for the first time. I've seen D3 players of this same caliber, all the way up to 5.5 or higher (Butorac is very talented, but he certainly does not represent the very peak of D3 players... He's 6.0 by definition now)

I can't comment on the other divisions as I haven't had any experiences with them myself, but out relatively strong D3 team took out a few D1 teams, and I'm *sure* these teams were *not* the very worst D1 teams around, just the closest ones to our school.

You really can't just throw out estimates of players ability based on entire divisions, it's quite ludicrous.

kevhen
07-31-2007, 06:53 AM
I am just saying what I am seeing is most common around here. Drake and Iowa are the D1 programs with good tennis. Only one DII team in the state is Upper Iowa. Lots of good DIII teams here too in Coe, Central, Wartburg, Luther, etc which often have regional rankings. High school has many state champ teams in the area in Iowa City West and Cedar Rapids Jefferson and Kennedy.

I have hit with people from all these schools (except Drake) and many others that aren't as good and those are the common levels that I see.

It may differ in your area. Small towns here don't even have tennis, which is why I didn't play much until after college.

Svenskpor
07-31-2007, 10:42 AM
All depends on the school's athletic department and how much effort they put into tennis. I used to date a girl that played DIII tennis in college. She was maybe a 3.0 at best

lostinamerica
07-31-2007, 12:13 PM
All depends on the school's athletic department and how much effort they put into tennis. I used to date a girl that played DIII tennis in college. She was maybe a 3.0 at best

I have seen players at DII all over the place. I would say the median DII player is a middle of the road 4.0. About half are better than that and about half are worse.

Jonny S&V
07-31-2007, 12:22 PM
I am just saying what I am seeing is most common around here. Drake and Iowa are the D1 programs with good tennis. Only one DII team in the state is Upper Iowa. Lots of good DIII teams here too in Coe, Central, Wartburg, Luther, etc which often have regional rankings. High school has many state champ teams in the area in Iowa City West and Cedar Rapids Jefferson and Kennedy.

I have hit with people from all these schools (except Drake) and many others that aren't as good and those are the common levels that I see.

It may differ in your area. Small towns here don't even have tennis, which is why I didn't play much until after college.

Ever seen Truman State from northern Missouri? They are DII.

Atown
08-01-2007, 10:44 AM
Isner is a 6.0 and barely. Most D2 colleges have freshman at the 5.0 level, and some even 4.5. But I am sure the good D2 have some around 5.5, but I'd have to say 6.0 is pushing it no offense. (Donald Y. is a good example of a strong 6.0 maybe 6.5, Isner would get whooped by Young, IMHO.)

He can pretty much be considered a 7.0 player more or less. 6.0 is a very strong Open level player, who can also be the number 3 to 6 on a D-1 team depending on the team's strength. When you've beaten a top 300 ATP player, and are ranked number 1 in D-1 college, you're way better than 6.0. He beat Michael Russell two years ago for frog's sakes.

As 35ft6 observed, Isner is probably a 7.0. He beat Henman yesterday in D.C. 4-6, 6-4, 7-6 (4).

Atown
08-01-2007, 11:57 AM
All depends on the school's athletic department and how much effort they put into tennis. I used to date a girl that played DIII tennis in college. She was maybe a 3.0 at best

Very true ... especially at the D-III level. I have friend who plays D-III and she's a computer rated 3.5 (bumped down after playing 4.0).

counterpunchingrules
08-01-2007, 04:26 PM
just got recruited a couple weeks ago to play division 2 tennis. guess ill let you guys know how it goes haha.

lostinamerica
08-01-2007, 05:41 PM
just got recruited a couple weeks ago to play division 2 tennis. guess ill let you guys know how it goes haha.

Good Luck if you decide to play. I played D II tennis and loved it. I was not good enough to play D I, but I did get to play. I loved it because I loved playing. You will see some very good players and some that are not.

Alas, that was many years ago.

EasternRocks
08-01-2007, 06:49 PM
not bad, divison 2 isn't bad but not good...i rather play divion 1 doubles 4 than playing divison 2 singles...but bottom line is that playing college tennis is a huge honor. no matter what Division its FUN!

Atown
08-01-2007, 06:51 PM
As 35ft6 observed, Isner is probably a 7.0. He beat Henman yesterday in D.C. 4-6, 6-4, 7-6 (4).

And today he beat No. 8 seed Benjamin Becker 3-6, 7-5, 7-6 (6).

lostinamerica
08-01-2007, 06:54 PM
And today he beat No. 8 seed Benjamin Becker 3-6, 7-5, 7-6 (6).

If he put his YouTube clip on here and asked people to rate him, everyone would say he is a strong 3.5 maybe 4.0 :-D

If he beat Henman and B.Becker (not the more famous German B. Becker but a very good player), I would definitely give him 7.0 status.

Atown
08-02-2007, 09:08 PM
Isner is now in the Quarterfinals of D.C. as today he beat Wayne Odesnik 6-7 (3), 7-6 (4), 7-6 (2). He plays No. 2 seed Tommy Haas tomorrow.

Atown
08-05-2007, 11:58 AM
Legg Mason Tennis Classic
Washington, D.C.

Quarterfinals
wc John Isner defeated No. 2 seed Tommy Haas 6-4, 6-7 (6), 7-6 (5)

Semifinals
wc John Isner defeated No. 9 seed Gael Monfils 6-7 (4), 7-6 (1), 7-6 (2)

Currently he his down one set, on serve in the 2nd, against Roddick.

Atown
08-05-2007, 12:36 PM
Legg Mason Tennis Classic
Washington, D.C.

Currently he his down one set, on serve in the 2nd, against Roddick.

Roddick just defeated Isner 6-4, 7-6(4).

BTW, Isner won the Lexington Challenger last week.

MacKenzie
08-05-2007, 01:58 PM
How tall is Isner? Sher are making them tall these days. :p

Atown
08-05-2007, 06:49 PM
How tall is Isner?

6' 9"

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