I lost to a soft baller

[Thomas Bird-Itch]

I play 3.5/4.0 USTA. What do you do against a guy who gives you absolutely zero pace and keeps the ball extremely low? ...but can hit a flat shot on or just in front of the baseline when you approach?!! :confused:

[Nick b]

**** knows ive got the same problem

[Thomas Bird-Itch]

Is this someone you lose to regularly? For me, I run into these guys once or twice a season and they give me fits. Sometimes I will win, sometimes I will lose. I hit with medium/heavy pace and top but it's difficult to get under, and actually to, many of these balls. If I was a better volleyer or had a great serve I would only attack.

[gsquicksilver]

sounds like you came across everyone's favorite player: THE PUSHER!!! :grin:

[All Courts]

I ran into this myself on my first match of a 4.5 player. I couldn't believe she was ranked 4.5. I kept waiting for her to pull some badarse ball-striking on me but it just never happened.

I play almost exclusively against guys, and I like to hit full, solid swings with lots of spin and pace, but her balls were soft lobs and kept landing like inside the service line. Back then, I was a pure baseliner with surprising droppers, so when her no-pace balls landed so far inside the court, I would run in, then she'd just LOB it again over my head. It was maddening. It was so stupid I wasn't upset that she beat me. And I mean honestly, I was kind of scared to hit out in fear of damaging her physically. It was like a joke.

So anyway, from that, I learned to be more of an all-court player and more aggressive. I don't wait for my opponent anymore, and I think that is a big key to beating these types of players.

[Thomas Bird-Itch]

My losses this year have been to:

1. high baller/drop shot/retriever - would rather force bamboo shoots under my fingernails. lost quickly due to impatience. good practice partner, but generally unpleasant on an off day.

2. GOOD S&V'er - great serves/volleys; very close match. i like this style b/c i'm fast and have good passing shots.

3. soft/low baller - close match, but i only won 2 points at the net. his passing shots landed 1 foot inside the baseline in either corner (more to my FH now that I think about it). i was scooping balls up at knee level mostly. extremely annoying style... nothing high enough to hit a decent approach shot or go for a winner (including his serve).

[BiGGieStuFF]

I like these guys. They really push you to the limits. I mean you gotta be consistent and wear these guys down. They have the ability to hit hard but they care more about staying in the rally and winning the point. They play the percentages and they win most of the time. The more you play them the better you'll get because it'll teach you to add consistency and patience to your game. Add that attribute to your attacking shots and you got a recipe for success.

Welcome the challenge. Don't shy away from it.

[Thomas Bird-Itch]

So the question still remains... What to do against only low, no pace balls?

[JediMindTrick]

So the question still remains... What to do against only low, no pace balls?

Hit approach shots and come to the net.

[SlapShot]

Hit approach shots and come to the net.

+1 - get your butt to the net and make them pass you. A well hit passing shot is a thing of beauty, but they need to prove that they can pass you.

[Thomas Bird-Itch]

He passed me easily, but my balls were likely not deep enough; thinking ideally 3 ft inside the baseline? I either tried to counter drop or get them deep, but I was afraid I'd hit my approaches long, thus they were not usually deep enough. My drop shot is actually too deep usually. Too much in the middle I guess?

Where should I put these shots, deep and DTL? Counter drop?

[headfan91]

I had the same problem yesterday. The kid just would hit the ball low at about the service line every time. But lucky for me, he was short so if he came to net, I would just lob or topspin over him. And if he was cheating to one side, I would just hit a shot down the line. But when he was at net and I didn't hit a lob he would just volley the ball straight down or at me. The only thing that was good was his serve. Another thing that bothered me was that he wouldn't switch sides, because I was hitting into the wind, so he didn't want to. He was really fast and would almost leap at some of my shots and tap it over the net.

[headfan91]

So the question still remains... What to do against only low, no pace balls?
When there is no pace and a low ball just slice it back(approach shot), and then get into position and to move to the net.

[sloe_torture]

The pushers can play their game because they know that you have a 50-50 chance of making an error and, basically, you've handed them half of the match. The pusher plays the odds really well by waiting for her opponent to make a mistake (usually the pusher preys on the opponent's weak stroke). All the pusher has to do now is break you one or two times to win the set. Try to understand the pusher mentality: they're not trying to win the point, they're just trying to keep a rally going until you feed them a cake shot.

If you're a baseliner I recommend hitting the ball back to the center of the court. Don't get frustrated by the slow pace. That way you'll limit the pusher's free points. After a few games you'll adjust to the pace and will learn to create your own pace (like taking the ball early and/or hitting angled shots). Learn to take advantage of mid-court floaters (not necessarily to close out a point) and to come in to the net.

If you're at the 3.5-4.0 level you should spend some time getting a feel for playing at the net. I recommend staying at the net at varying distances and ask your hitting partner to hit medium-paced shots in your direction. Try to keep a rally while you're at the net since the purpose is to work on your control at the net. After hitting 30-40 baskets you should be able to handle a pusher at the net. Make sure you read up on volley and overhead mechanics.

[Thomas Bird-Itch]

Thanks, sloe torture. I eventually get comfortable with these guys, but just hitting the ball in the middle got me into a lot of trouble in the last match. I'm not afraid of hitting volleys, but I feel pretty stupid when they hit clean winners on me 75% of the time I approach.

I would say my least competent area is the "transition" game. I never practice it, except in matches, so that's why. It isn't that I can't hit a volley; I just don't know where to put my approaches and how to hit them.

[fgs]

thomas bird-itch,
can you regularly hit slow and low balls from a high bouncing topspin to your backhand? if you can, than you should be rated 5.5 and play futures.:D
that's usually the position pushers would like least. i meet them usually in the first two rounds of tournaments and by putting some patience into my game i usually get to win in two sets. just try to hit two-three times a high and mid-paced ball on their backhands and then go for a short angled crosscourt, mid-paced on their forehands as an approach shot. just give this a try and see how it works out. good luck.

[penpal]

It sounds like you know what you need to do Thomas ... get that approach game in order.

If a 3.5/4.0 player is passing you easily 75% of the time, it's not because they are the greatest passing artist ever, it is because your approach shots are sitting up like a finishing school student.

[chunlimeyers]

Listen to fgs, he knows from whence he speaks!.. I think the only thing that needs clarity is HOW to get these balls high with topspin when that sucker is purposely pushing it low. And, this is where the patience comes in. You have to hit the first ball with as much topspin as you can, the second ball might still not be up to your knees, so, just hit MORE topspin. At about the 3rd shot, with each of your shots gaining more and more spin, by physics, it will be at least knee high if not higher, and then you want to ANGLE off your approach shots. Not really deep, but around the service line area. A VERY difficult shot for ANYONE to deal with. And then, fein like your going to volley, and he will fein like he is going to pass, and have that OVERHEAD tuned up!.. And, yes, top notch pushers STILL make this tough on us all. I am going to see if my new kick serve i just developed may help to "eliminate" a couple steps and pain here!

[Mick]

if you want to beat a pusher, you got to have a weapon (such as a big serve, or a killer forehand, or a killer backhand, or a good net game). If you don't have a weapon, the pusher will win.

[fgs]

mick,
being able to exploit the geometry of the tennis court is one of the most fantastic weapons. and no killer shots are required for this because you'd have way too many errors counting in, you'd be beating yourself. being an aggressive player doesn't mean to go for winners all the time, it can be done by literally "cornering" your opponent and forcing him to make an error by taking time away from him.

[Vision84]

So you had a pusher hitting it low and inside the service line? Another option you have is hitting a drop shot and then lob them as they come to the net. This tactic can work really well.

Headfan91 make the kid switch sides. He can't argue with the official rules.

[Thomas Bird-Itch]

fgs/chulimeyers, I was trying to get under those balls, but they were so short. I guess I can try harder to get top on them up next time. He was forcing me to come in, so he could pass me off my lame approaches, or waiting until I moved back so he could repeat with another short, no pace ball.

I would say the balls at their highest points were knee-high, halfway between the service and baselines. Those are difficult to run forward to, get under with top, and place where he couldn't do it again. The times I waited inside the baseline, he would hit them hard and flat to the corners or really chop down on it with nasty slice. I really want to try what you're suggesting, b/c I believe you. I guess I just have to take my chances standing inside the service line and get him to go for those corner shots. Otherwise I will never be in position to get enough top during those semi-dropshot rallies.

Mick, I have at least a 4.0 FH. My BH is solid too, but my overall net game and transition/approaches off junk balls are 3.0 or worse. My groundstrokes are basically neutralized by the garbage, so I'm forced to play a B or C game. Sometimes I win, but it shouldn't be this painful!

[Thomas Bird-Itch]

Vision84, that is a tactic I've tried to use. My drop shots are usually too deep or in the net, so that is another area where I need to improve. The times I tried it I might as well have turned around and walked back to the baseline. The were all winners into the corners for him.

EDIT: This is all beginning to make sense to me. I have 4.0 groundstrokes, 3.5 serve/return, and everything else 3.0. Transition and being effective anywhere other than the baseline are my weak areas. How depressing! Oh well, guess I can play S&V with weaker players until I develop a decent all court game?

[Mick]

mick,
being able to exploit the geometry of the tennis court is one of the most fantastic weapons. and no killer shots are required for this because you'd have way too many errors counting in, you'd be beating yourself. being an aggressive player doesn't mean to go for winners all the time, it can be done by literally "cornering" your opponent and forcing him to make an error by taking time away from him.

I agree, fgs, that sure is a fantastic weapon. When you play against a great defensive player, you have to take charge of the points by executing whatever skills you got. If you don't and merely react to the points, your opponent is going to have the advantage. That is, unless you are an even better defensive player than he is (pusher meets super pusher).

[Mick]

Mick, I have at least a 4.0 FH. My BH is solid too, but my overall net game and transition/approaches off junk balls are 3.0 or worse. My groundstrokes are basically neutralized by the garbage, so I'm forced to play a B or C game. Sometimes I win, but it shouldn't be this painful!
I think you should play this guy more. You lost because you are not used to playing someone with that type of a game. Once you are familiar with his game/weird balls you will have a better chance of beating him (in future meetings)

[Punisha]

fight fire with fire

just be a tard and hit crazy side spins and slics and stuff and then through up a lob for no reason. Be unpredictable. Its funny to watch them hitting your utter cr@P and even if u dont win u have a good time. lol

[Tennis_Monk]

A Pusher typically wins by helping his Opponent loose. He wins because he usually makes the opponent play beyond his comfort zone.

I have played a number of pushers (i used to be a pusher and it is still my Plan C ) and i eventually got better of them by sticking to my comfort zone. Once the pusher realizes that
a ) his opponent can run as long as he can
b) his opponent is willing to play long rallies
c) his opponent also has shots that can be pulled any time an oppurtunity arises
d) his opponent is not crumbling mentally

Pusher usually gives up or tries to force some points atleast.

I am not an advocate of S & V or whatever unless that happens to be your style. Just try playing in your comfort zone (whatever style that is).

Dont underestimate pushers. I know enough pushers, who would push until they get an opputunity to hit a punishing winner.