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View Full Version : Noah - worst ever strokes for a GS winner


ty slothrop
04-16-2007, 07:56 PM
So I am watching the TTC replay of the 1983 Roland Garros final, and somehow Noah is winning despite groundstrokes from both sides that are all arm and wrist. Most topspin shots llook like half-@ssed rainbows that land before the service line. His only "decent" shot is a backhand slice approach, and of course he is volleying out of his mind. It is pretty nuts that Wilander's strokes - Mr. Consistency - couldn't break him down.

By the way, anybody know what stencil is on Noah's racket?

mellofelow
04-16-2007, 08:08 PM
So what... he's probably the most athletic winner of all. Plus he has the nation on his back.

I don't have TTC but based on my memory, I believe his logo is Le Cog Sportif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/thumb/3/37/Le_coq_sportif_Logo.JPG/150px-Le_coq_sportif_Logo.JPG

ty slothrop
04-16-2007, 08:17 PM
his net coverage and anticipation are - at least for this match - unreal. almost all of his points are at the net, on clay against a player renowned for metronomic baseline consistency.

with this type of game, it's surprising he didn't have a couple of good wimbledon runs - then again, as you said, he had the whole country behind him at home in 83...

Zimbo
04-16-2007, 09:16 PM
So I am watching the TTC replay of the 1983 Roland Garros final, and somehow Noah is winning despite groundstrokes from both sides that are all arm and wrist. Most topspin shots llook like half-@ssed rainbows that land before the service line. His only "decent" shot is a backhand slice approach, and of course he is volleying out of his mind. It is pretty nuts that Wilander's strokes - Mr. Consistency - couldn't break him down.

By the way, anybody know what stencil is on Noah's racket?

I agree. I just checked and it appears that Noah also beat Lendl that year in the quarters. Story book. It's crazy how Lendl and Wilander couldn't break him down. I never saw a Wilander match pre- '85, but it appeared he was off. Though Noah's anticipation was also awesome but Wilander's passing shoots let him down and he made some horrible errors at important times. Plus, he was hitting way to short and allowed Noah to attack the net. Watching this match made me miss the good volleyers of the past.

35ft6
04-16-2007, 11:19 PM
No worse than Patrick Rafter. Actually, they have a LOT in common.

morten
04-16-2007, 11:43 PM
No worse than Patrick Rafter. Actually, they have a LOT in common.

No no no, Rafter was great, great slice, great volleys, ok groundstrokes.

galain
04-17-2007, 12:13 AM
As much as I love Noah, I agree, his groundies were not that great. He did have the most beautiful serve in the game though, IMO, and for that I tenf to overlook his other failings.

Wilander back then was a very different player to the one he became. People tend to forget that he was still a teenager and, though already experienced, not fully physically or mentally mature as a player. Watch his final win over Vilas the previous year - his groundies were nothing to get too excited about either.

And Lendl - he often struggled with Noah for some reason.

AndrewD
04-17-2007, 02:55 AM
Noah, same as Pat Rafter a number of years later (plus Edberg and McEnroe - to a more exhalted level) , showed just how successful a player can be (at all levels of the game) when they force their opponent to come up with winning shots from the first to the last point of the match. That type of attacking tennis can go a long way towards masking deficiencies in technique or strokes which are sound but not potent. However, it does place a premium on athleticism. Not surprisingly, Noah, Rafter and Edberg (to a slightly lesser degree, McEnroe) rate as 3 of the best athletes in the last 30 years ( along with another pure attacking player in Pat Cash).

35ft6
04-17-2007, 05:34 AM
No no no, Rafter was great, great slice, great volleys, ok groundstrokes. His technique on almost every shot wasn't all that great, not even on his volleys. You could see the EFFORT he was putting into his shots, he had no effortless shots like Safin's backhand, Kraijeck's serve, or Federer's forehand. His athleticism held his game together.

Andres
04-17-2007, 07:47 AM
Then, JMac would have the worst. Horrendous as hell, but magic as hell, and effective as hell. Absolutely un-copiable :D

CyBorg
04-17-2007, 08:22 AM
These two RG championships would have been Borg's for the taking had he not retired from majors competition.

tintin
04-17-2007, 08:55 AM
Noah has amazing volleys and net coverage
his forehand stunked bad
he had a nice one-handed backhand and he moved well
for some reason he couldn't win a match on grass ever

Kevin T
04-17-2007, 09:01 AM
Did everyone else enjoy this match as much as me? This is one of the first tennis matches I can remember watching, at the tender age of 8. Noah's groundstrokes were absolutely horrible but dogone he was magic at the net and on serve and that slice approach was a thing of beauty. The Noah/Wilander match was more interesting to me than 75% of tennis matches I've seen in the last 10 years. And Noah was a pimp. That Le Coq gear and racquet would look just as good these days.

michaellashan
04-17-2007, 09:27 AM
Did everyone else enjoy this match as much as me? This is one of the first tennis matches I can remember watching, at the tender age of 8. Noah's groundstrokes were absolutely horrible but dogone he was magic at the net and on serve and that slice approach was a thing of beauty. The Noah/Wilander match was more interesting to me than 75% of tennis matches I've seen in the last 10 years. And Noah was a pimp. That Le Coq gear and racquet would look just as good these days.

I agree with you Kevin T. I even purchased the match on DVD and still love it. It is difficult to compete against heart and athleticism. I remember reading an article in which Boris Becker was talking about matches with Noah. He even compared his hair to the locks of a lion and his ability to get to everything. He was definitely one of my favorite players and a very unique personality.

Anyone else remember a near fight that happened with Noah and another player at the end of a match. Noah is very passionate athlete; you can even see the same fire in his son.

vive le beau jeu !
04-17-2007, 09:55 AM
Noah has amazing volleys and net coverage
his forehand stunked bad
he had a nice one-handed backhand and he moved well
for some reason he couldn't win a match on grass ever
i guess the reason is his return.
he himself said he had probably the worst return of serve of the top 100 (or 50) !
a pity... because with such a serve and such volleys, he could have done some damage on the grass if he had a decent return. ;)

Colpo
04-17-2007, 01:00 PM
So I am watching the TTC replay of the 1983 Roland Garros final, and somehow Noah is winning despite groundstrokes from both sides that are all arm and wrist. Most topspin shots llook like half-@ssed rainbows that land before the service line. His only "decent" shot is a backhand slice approach, and of course he is volleying out of his mind. It is pretty nuts that Wilander's strokes - Mr. Consistency - couldn't break him down.

By the way, anybody know what stencil is on Noah's racket?

I think you're a bit hard on Noah. First, the farther back we go, the slower the game looks in replay. Would you also say that Wilander looked bad, because he was doing the loop-dee-doop as much as Noah? Bottom line: everybody played that way then - guys were littler, less fit generally, racquets were less powerful, the game was just flat slower. frankly, Yannick rocketed some forehand winners, slam volleys, and serves in that match that looked more "today" then back then. Last, you give Noah's slice BH some respect, but that was a great, great shot - maybe Federer today hits a more penetrating slice approach ... MAYBE. Noah had plenty of game, but he was French - the percentages say he could only put up so many results.

thomas martinez
04-17-2007, 03:16 PM
The player that Noah almost pounded would be Amos Mansdorf of Israel. If I remember right, Mansdorf made a crack about Noah's family, and the stuff hit the fan, shocked that it didn't end in blows.

Moose Malloy
04-17-2007, 03:18 PM
Noah did win the sportmanship award one year, just in case anyone thought he was a hothead.

slice bh compliment
04-17-2007, 03:38 PM
The player that Noah almost pounded would be Amos Mansdorf of Israel. If I remember right, Mansdorf made a crack about Noah's family, and the stuff hit the fan, shocked that it didn't end in blows.

Yeah, I remember that. Yannick was very, very reasonable with Amos. Called him by first name during the argument and everything. Gave him every chance to save face.

Amos did not. Noah showed a lot of class not decking the little dude.

Anyway, about his groundstrokes...they were not horrible at all. In fact, at the time, they were considered adequate. It was his head and his work ethic that was sometimes questioned.

His talent, athleticism, his fitness, his flair and passion for the game, his serves, his hair, his touch volleys, his monster overhead, his movement and his slice BH earned him lots of compliments. Also, in general, his character.

I know this is not really in question, but look at him now: as a coach/captain, he won a Fed Cup and a Davis Cup. He's also a big part of Enfants de la Terre, helping children in a big, big way. Overall mensch.....and future NBA dad?

vive le beau jeu !
04-17-2007, 04:05 PM
I know this is not really in question, but look at him now: as a coach/captain, he won a Fed Cup and a Davis Cup. He's also a big part of Enfants de la Terre, helping children in a big, big way. Overall mensch.....and future NBA dad?
and you can add to your list that he's also a successful singer !


i didn't know about the mansdorf thing... ;)

BigServer1
04-17-2007, 04:14 PM
Yeah, I remember that. Yannick was very, very reasonable with Amos. Called him by first name during the argument and everything. Gave him every chance to save face.

Amos did not. Noah showed a lot of class not decking the little dude.

Anyway, about his groundstrokes...they were not horrible at all. In fact, at the time, they were considered adequate. It was his head and his work ethic that was sometimes questioned.

His talent, athleticism, his fitness, his flair and passion for the game, his serves, his hair, his touch volleys, his monster overhead, his movement and his slice BH earned him lots of compliments. Also, in general, his character.

I know this is not really in question, but look at him now: as a coach/captain, he won a Fed Cup and a Davis Cup. He's also a big part of Enfants de la Terre, helping children in a big, big way. Overall mensch.....and future NBA dad?

Yeah, it's too bad that I can't stand watching his son play. If I had to watch him celebrate a defensive rebound or a meaningless foul again I was going to puke. Thank goodness he'll be in the NBA next year and the big boys will beat him down. I can't wait until he catches an elbow from Shaq.

ty slothrop
04-17-2007, 06:21 PM
I think you're a bit hard on Noah. First, the farther back we go, the slower the game looks in replay. Would you also say that Wilander looked bad, because he was doing the loop-dee-doop as much as Noah? Bottom line: everybody played that way then - guys were littler, less fit generally, racquets were less powerful, the game was just flat slower. frankly, Yannick rocketed some forehand winners, slam volleys, and serves in that match that looked more "today" then back then. Last, you give Noah's slice BH some respect, but that was a great, great shot - maybe Federer today hits a more penetrating slice approach ... MAYBE. Noah had plenty of game, but he was French - the percentages say he could only put up so many results.

strictly speaking from the aesthetic perspective. clearly they weren't "that bad" - he won the grand slam that demands the highest standard from the baseline. when coming over the ball, he simply looks like he is flailing at it - all arm and wrist. wilander, on the other hand, looks like a groundstroking machine. but you are definitely right, that slice was sinister and ate up wilander's backhand.

really wish I had seen this live - I was also 8. my first taste of tennis was becker v. curren at wimbledon two years later...

The Gorilla
04-17-2007, 06:26 PM
ivo karlovic might earn that distinction at wimbledon this year.

Bigtime
04-18-2007, 06:53 AM
Where did you find a DVD of that match? I would be interested in getting one for nostalgia reasons. My wife was in labor with our first child that whole day, so we watched the match in it's entirety. I did not know that much about tennis back then (except for the basic rules) however, I was rooting for Wilander since both of my grandfathers were born in Sweden.

Colpo
04-18-2007, 07:16 AM
Where did you find a DVD of that match? I would be interested in getting one for nostalgia reasons. My wife was in labor with our first child that whole day, so we watched the match in it's entirety. I did not know that much about tennis back then (except for the basic rules) however, I was rooting for Wilander since both of my grandfathers were born in Sweden.

I just saw it on the Tennis Channel recently. They're doing alot of French Open highlights stuff running into the French this year - check their listings in advance if you get it.

michaellashan
04-18-2007, 07:54 AM
Where did you find a DVD of that match?

I found a copy on E....bay.

suwanee4712
04-18-2007, 10:30 PM
I think Yannick would rank up near the top of grand slam champs with the worst ground strokes. But, in a way, that makes what he was able to do during his career that much more impressive. Because what he did (serve, volley, chips, overheads), he did extremely well. He'll always be remembered as a great entertainer.

Pete Semper
04-23-2007, 07:21 AM
Ashe grounstrokes was worst than Noah.

rjkardo
04-23-2007, 10:06 PM
Yeah, it's too bad that I can't stand watching his son play. If I had to watch him celebrate a defensive rebound or a meaningless foul again I was going to puke. Thank goodness he'll be in the NBA next year and the big boys will beat him down. I can't wait until he catches an elbow from Shaq.

Heh, his son is 7 foot tall. Which 'big boys' are you talking about?
:)

Rod

BigServer1
04-23-2007, 10:28 PM
Heh, his son is 7 foot tall. Which 'big boys' are you talking about?
:)

Rod

He's 6-10, maybe 6-11. But height isn't everything in the league. Look at his build compared to Shaq, Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Ben Wallace etc. If he pulls that ridiculous scream after he gets fouled, pulls down a rebound, etc. in the league someone will tire of it and throw him an elbow. He's gonna have a rough first few years. He thinks he's great, and he's not. Hell, Greg Oden took on Noah and two other Florida big men and owned all three of them in the title game. Oden did it when he was 19 no less. Noah has a rude awakening when he gets to the show.

Heavy Metal Tennis Star
04-23-2007, 11:55 PM
yep, blue chippers like jermaine oneal, kevin garnett and tim duncan will break jackoffkim noah

mctennis
05-18-2007, 06:45 PM
I agree. How did he EVER win any matches with those poor looking strokes.

35ft6
05-19-2007, 03:43 AM
strictly speaking from the aesthetic perspective. clearly they weren't "that bad" - he won the grand slam that demands the highest standard from the baseline.. He won it by coming to the net relentlessly. Even on that day, when Wilander's passing shots/groundstrokes weren't at their best, Noah knew he was dead if he played him from the baseline. Not taking anything away, but he didn't win the French by demonstrating the "highest standard from the baseline."

35ft6
05-19-2007, 03:52 AM
His singing's not that great either.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=t8xaU7fY5RM&mode=related&search=

Does anybody know where I can watch some of his exhibition against henin? The one where he wore a dress for?