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noeledmonds
04-19-2007, 01:51 PM
A lot is made of Nadal's active 64 match winning streak on clay. However many fail to appreciate that streaks were far less important in Borg's day and Borg could have had far greater streaks. Consider this:

This is an 82 match streak that Borg effectivly had on European Clay (also all on red clay I belive unless any of the clay events Borg lost at in the USA were played on red clay). This streak EXCLUDES a match that Borg lost in Hamburg in 1970 were Borg retired in the 1st when he was leading 4-1. Remeber that all of Nadal's streak matches have been played on European Red clay.

N.B Match results are taken from the ATP website so there is a possibility that the information is incomplete. Please make any additions or corrections if you know of any.

82 matches-

1977: Nice, Monte Carlo WCT, Pepsi Grand Slam, Madrid, Barcelona (23 matches)

1978: Pepsi Grand Slam, Rome, Roland Garros, Bastad (20 matches)

1979: Monte Carlo, Hamburg*,Roland Garros, Bastad, Palermo (24 matches)

1980: 2 Davis Cup matches on Swedish Clay, Nice, Monte Carlo, Nations Cup** (15 matches)


*Not including match in R16 where Borg retired against Eliot Teltscher, Borg was leading 4-1 in the 1st set at the time

** Borg loses to Vilas in the semi-final

Any additional information on the Nations Cup would be helpful too, as I am unable to really discover anthing about the event. Note that Borg went on to win the FO without losing a set in the next event after the Nations Cup.

Moose Malloy
04-19-2007, 01:57 PM
The Nations Cup is now the World Team Cup. Basically an exhibition that for some reason the atp gives points for.

dommod
04-19-2007, 08:44 PM
I am very eager to hear more about this!

noeledmonds
04-20-2007, 11:16 AM
The Nations Cup is now the World Team Cup. Basically an exhibition that for some reason the atp gives points for.

Thanks Moose I had gathered that it was probabely not a particularly significant event. Poor Vilas could never beat Borg on clay on the big occassion. Indeed Vilas only beat Borg on clay on one other occasion, Borg retired in a 4th set tiebreak in this match (he was only 17 year old at the time too). Borg beat Vilas on clay on 9 occasions including in the finals of 2 FO. Vilas was of course a great clay courter in his own right and has more clay court tournaments to his name than any other male open-era player (46 I think). It is remarkable that such a great clay courter could be owned to such an extent by another player. Borg only lost 3 sets accross all of these 9 victories and none of those sets were lost at the FO.

noeledmonds
05-22-2007, 06:40 AM
Nadal happens to fall one short!

CyBorg
05-22-2007, 07:55 AM
Vilas only beat Borg on clay on one other occasion, Borg retired in a 4th set tiebreak in this match (he was only 17 year old at the time too).

I believe you're thinking of Buenos Aires in 1973. I wonder what happened - Borg won the first two sets, later retiring in the fourth. It would have been his first title.

Moose Malloy
05-23-2007, 04:30 PM
by my count Borg had a 90 match win streak on clay from 1977 until his loss to Vilas at the World Team Cup 1980(excluding a few matches in which he retired)

So no one beat Borg on clay from 1977-1980.

http://www.itftennis.com/mens/players/activity.asp?player=10002258

llgc8080
04-03-2008, 04:09 PM
I believe you're thinking of Buenos Aires in 1973. I wonder what happened - Borg won the first two sets, later retiring in the fourth. It would have been his first title.

Would??? That you don't know! Ah, it's Vilas, your "friend"...

llgc8080
04-03-2008, 04:12 PM
by my count Borg had a 90 match win streak on clay from 1977 until his loss to Vilas at the World Team Cup 1980(excluding a few matches in which he retired)

So no one beat Borg on clay from 1977-1980.

http://www.itftennis.com/mens/players/activity.asp?player=10002258

If you retired, you lost. That's a fact.

Had you played tennis one time at least? Imagine you're the other player: what, you retire and you don't lose??? NO!

One thing is a W.O., another is a retirement!:)

CyBorg
04-05-2008, 05:24 PM
Would??? That you don't know! Ah, it's Vilas, your "friend"...

Had Borg won that event it would have been his first title, unless we count Helsinki.

I wasn't implying anything aside from this.

Tennisfan!
04-10-2008, 09:23 AM
WO or retirements, stpos winning streaks.
The point here is that NO ONE CAN BEAT BORG in this time, besides only numbers.
NO ONE!

Q&M son
04-14-2008, 11:14 AM
WO and retirements finishes winning streaks. That's all.

Lucio.

Moose Malloy
04-14-2008, 12:52 PM
^Well, the ATP made a rather strange statement in Rome last year concerning a health scare for Nadal:

ROME (AP) Rafael Nadal went to a hospital for a checkup following a dizzy spell Thursday, although he was not planning to withdraw from the Rome Masters.
Nadal will attempt to extend his 73-match clay-court winning streak later Thursday against Mikhail Youzhny.

"Everything is OK. It was just a routine checkup. He's playing tonight," Nadal's spokesman Benito Barbadillo said. "It was the same as yesterday. He was just feeling a little dizzy, that's it."

Nadal said he felt dizzy after his second-round win over Daniele Bracciali on Wednesday.

Even if he does withdraw, Nadal's streak will remain in intact.

"A withdrawal is not considered a loss or a win," ATP spokesman Nicola Arzani said.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2007-05-10-2609642545_x.htm

Q&M son
04-14-2008, 01:22 PM
^Well, the ATP made a rather strange statement in Rome last year concerning a health scare for Nadal:

ROME (AP) — Rafael Nadal went to a hospital for a checkup following a dizzy spell Thursday, although he was not planning to withdraw from the Rome Masters.
Nadal will attempt to extend his 73-match clay-court winning streak later Thursday against Mikhail Youzhny.

"Everything is OK. It was just a routine checkup. He's playing tonight," Nadal's spokesman Benito Barbadillo said. "It was the same as yesterday. He was just feeling a little dizzy, that's it."

Nadal said he felt dizzy after his second-round win over Daniele Bracciali on Wednesday.

Even if he does withdraw, Nadal's streak will remain in intact.

"A withdrawal is not considered a loss or a win," ATP spokesman Nicola Arzani said.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2007-05-10-2609642545_x.htm

This guys from ATP....... Like change record from Borg to Vilas.... Change over and over again.
Thanks for this add Moose, it's good to know who's ruling man tennis today and what they think.

Lucio.

Gizo
05-02-2008, 02:03 PM
A lot is made of Nadal's active 64 match winning streak on clay. However many fail to appreciate that streaks were far less important in Borg's day and Borg could have had far greater streaks. Consider this:

This is an 82 match streak that Borg effectivly had on European Clay (also all on red clay I belive unless any of the clay events Borg lost at in the USA were played on red clay). This streak EXCLUDES a match that Borg lost in Hamburg in 1970 were Borg retired in the 1st when he was leading 4-1. Remeber that all of Nadal's streak matches have been played on European Red clay.

N.B Match results are taken from the ATP website so there is a possibility that the information is incomplete. Please make any additions or corrections if you know of any.

82 matches-

1977: Nice, Monte Carlo WCT, Pepsi Grand Slam, Madrid, Barcelona (23 matches)

1978: Pepsi Grand Slam, Rome, Roland Garros, Bastad (20 matches)

1979: Monte Carlo, Hamburg*,Roland Garros, Bastad, Palermo (24 matches)

1980: 2 Davis Cup matches on Swedish Clay, Nice, Monte Carlo, Nations Cup** (15 matches)


*Not including match in R16 where Borg retired against Eliot Teltscher, Borg was leading 4-1 in the 1st set at the time

** Borg loses to Vilas in the semi-final

Any additional information on the Nations Cup would be helpful too, as I am unable to really discover anthing about the event. Note that Borg went on to win the FO without losing a set in the next event after the Nations Cup.

Just as a matter of interest, you've included Borg's victories in the Pepsi Grand Slam event at Boca Raton event there. Was the surface at that tournament definately red clay, as I always assumed that it was played on green clay like the vast majority of other claycourt tournaments in North America?

Moose Malloy
05-02-2008, 02:28 PM
Pepsi Grand Slam was green clay.

Benhur
05-03-2008, 06:56 AM
^Well, the ATP made a rather strange statement in Rome last year concerning a health scare for Nadal:

ROME (AP) Rafael Nadal went to a hospital for a checkup following a dizzy spell Thursday, although he was not planning to withdraw from the Rome Masters.
Nadal will attempt to extend his 73-match clay-court winning streak later Thursday against Mikhail Youzhny.

"Everything is OK. It was just a routine checkup. He's playing tonight," Nadal's spokesman Benito Barbadillo said. "It was the same as yesterday. He was just feeling a little dizzy, that's it."

Nadal said he felt dizzy after his second-round win over Daniele Bracciali on Wednesday.

Even if he does withdraw, Nadal's streak will remain in intact.

"A withdrawal is not considered a loss or a win," ATP spokesman Nicola Arzani said.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2007-05-10-2609642545_x.htm

There is a clear cut distinction between a withdrawal before a match and retirement during a match. A withdrawal before the match (which is what they are referring to in the statement above) is a walkover for the opponent and does not count as a win/loss for either player, since the match never took place.

Retirement during a match is always counted as a loss. Therefore the 1979 match against Teltscher in Hamburg is a loss.

hoodjem
05-03-2008, 07:25 AM
Retirement during a match is always counted as a loss. Therefore the 1979 match against Teltscher in Hamburg is a loss.
As is Borg's retirement during his fourth round match against Dick Stockton at the 1977 USO. The score was 6-3, 4-6, 0-1 for Borg. Loss for Borg.

I like and respect Borg a great deal. I do wish he had had less injuries and had not "retired" from tennis in 1981. I believe that if he had kept playing he would be regarded as greater than he is today. Not because of what might have happened, but because of what actually happened.

I also wish that Borg had played some AO in the 70s and 80s. I think he would have won them easily. But that really does not matter. What matters is what exists in the record books. Not what might have been.

Q&M son
05-06-2008, 04:01 AM
I also wish that Borg had played some AO in the 70s and 80s. I think he would have won them easily. But that really does not matter. What matters is what exists in the record books. Not what might have been.

Great sentence.
That's what's matters.

35ft6
05-06-2008, 09:01 AM
If Borg had won a US Open, he would be considered even greater. If you look at the list of champions of the Grand Slams over the past 25 years, only has the US Open been won exclusively by men who reached number 1. It's still arguably the most neutral of surfaces, minimizing the anomalies that can happen on more extreme surfaces.