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powten
05-03-2007, 12:40 PM
Hi everyone,
I had written a longer post, but it disappeared before submitting.
I am currently playing with an M Fil 300, I am 18 years old, not very strong (65 kg only), and I have a correct level of play, around 5.0

I have ben playing with this stick for 6 months now, but I quickly started to put huge amounts of lead, finding the racquet too light and not stable enough:
-12 grams above the handle
-3 grams at 3, 3 grams at 9
-12 grams at 12
all in one time

At first, that setup was really nice! I had more power, more stability, the stick was more solid and heavier than before.
My level of play overall increased during this winter.

But one week ago, I started playing outdoors, on clay. And the racquet was so hard to move around! I am more of a clay courter, and I wanted to use my wrist more on clay to put more spin, but I just couldn't do it. The stick was too heavy and my performance was really terrible. Moreover, now matches are on clay and they are longer, and it has become too hard for me to handle the stick during the entire match.

Now that you know the situation, let me ask some questions:
-Did I put too much lead?
-Where do I need to put lead and what amounts do I have to put if I want to decrease the overall weight without losing too much of the solidness, stability at impact, power...?
-Are the places where I put lead "understandable"? I mean, can you understand the fact that I put lead at 3, 9, 12 and on top of the handle, or is lead at some of these locations just unuseful?
-Does putting small amounts of lead really change something on the racquet (eg 5 grams), or do I need to put larger amounts of lead to have effective changes?
-Do I need to start playing table tennis?

ibringtheHEAT
05-03-2007, 12:47 PM
Hi everyone,
I had written a longer post, but it disappeared before submitting.
I am currently playing with an M Fil 300, I am 18 years old, not very strong (65 kg only), and I have a correct level of play, around 5.0

I have ben playing with this stick for 6 months now, but I quickly started to put huge amounts of lead, finding the racquet too light and not stable enough:
-12 grams above the handle
-3 grams at 3, 3 grams at 9
-12 grams at 12
all in one time

At first, that setup was really nice! I had more power, more stability, the stick was more solid and heavier than before.
My level of play overall increased during this winter.

But one week ago, I started playing outdoors, on clay. And the racquet was so hard to move around! I am more of a clay courter, and I wanted to use my wrist more on clay to put more spin, but I just couldn't do it. The stick was too heavy and my performance was really terrible. Moreover, now matches are on clay and they are longer, and it has become too hard for me to handle the stick during the entire match.

Now that you know the situation, let me ask some questions:
-Did I put too much lead? Not necessarily
-Where do I need to put lead and what amounts do I have to put if I want to decrease the overall weight without losing too much of the solidness, stability at impact, power...?Try adding more at just 9 and 3 maybe a little at 12
-Are the places where I put lead "understandable"? I mean, can you understand the fact that I put lead at 3, 9, 12 and on top of the handle, or is lead at some of these locations just unuseful?you might as well just put lead everywhere the rate your putting it, all your doing is making your racquet heavier the way you are adding it
-Does putting small amounts of lead really change something on the racquet (eg 5 grams), or do I need to put larger amounts of lead to have effective changes?Use smaller amounts......I use 6 grams at 9 and 3 ONLY
-Do I need to start playing table tennis?If you want to have a little fun... ;)


Answered above...

powten
05-03-2007, 01:04 PM
Thanks for your answer.
So you think it is more clever to remove it from 12 and put more at 3 and 9?

ibringtheHEAT
05-03-2007, 01:07 PM
Yes, it will still swing more stable, but with a little bit less weight which will allow for you to hit longer without getting tired so quickly.

powten
05-03-2007, 01:17 PM
OK I will try this out ASAP
I will remove the lead totally from 12, and put 6 grams at 3 and 6 grams at 9.
That should be OK to start with.

johncauthen
05-03-2007, 01:25 PM
powten is right. The lead at 12 is the problem.

powten
05-03-2007, 01:39 PM
And what would you advise me to do?

johncauthen
05-03-2007, 01:50 PM
Make sure the lead at 3 and 9 is long enough to come down past the 11th string from the top, and make sure the lead on the handle has accurate length and placement, to the millimeter.

12 grams at 3 and 9 is too much. Cut 3 1/2 inch strips in half lengthwise for each side; 3 1/2 grams per side.

powten
05-03-2007, 01:59 PM
For your information, I use Babolat lead tape.
I don't really understand what you mean by "down past the 11th string from the top": you mean till the 11th cross starting from 12?
If that is the case, this is the end of the bottom part: but where do you stop it on the top of the frame? For what overall weight?
And is it good to keep 12 grams at the top of the handle?

Richie Rich
05-03-2007, 02:38 PM
did you try the racquet without the lead at 12 o'clock? having that much lead there really slows down your headspeed and will make the racquet swing much heavier than moving the lead to 3/9.

you also might want to think about moving the lead you have at the top of the handle to the bottom.

i have a few mfil300 weighted with lead at 3, 9 and bottom of the handle. they weight 330g strung with overgrip. light enough to swing all day but solid enough to not get pushed around by heavy fast shots

johncauthen
05-03-2007, 02:39 PM
If you center regular lead tape at 3 and 9, and the tape is 3 1/2 inches long, the bottom of the strips will be past the 11th cross string counting from the top, but with the Dunlop stringing pattern it might be the 12th string that's magic: the bottom of the tape has to be lower than that.



If you use my upper handle weight, using lead tape, cut each piece accurate to the millimeter and place the top of the tape accurately between 211 mm and 212 mm from the butt. You should love the mFil 300 modified that way.

Putting weight at the top of the handle, it must be accurate.

ibringtheHEAT
05-03-2007, 03:00 PM
powten is right?

I gave him advice and he asked for reitteration.....

I personally put 5 inch strips on both sides centered. If I need more weight I add another layer.......making the strips longer takes away stability and only makes it heavier.

Johncauthen is a 50 year old guy that claims Wilson stole his technology for tennis racquets.....although I don't doubt he knows about tennis, he does make some very weird claims at times.

johncauthen
05-03-2007, 03:20 PM
5 inch strips are longer than 3 1/2 inch strips. I didn't realize powten had started the thread. When I read, "I will (or I would) remove tape totally from 12", yeah that was the right thing to do.

I have a photograph of one of my 20 year old Prince racquets in http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=131260. It has current Babolat technology! Current technology that was derived from what I showed Wilson. It's true, after I showed Wilson my racquets like the one in the photo at the end of the thread, I was cut out of the picture and not given credit.

ibringtheHEAT
05-03-2007, 03:23 PM
@jc

I for one don't doubt that you had come up with a technology similar if not identical to that of the former Wilson technologies. Some see it farfetched, although I do believe you could have done this. Although there is really no way you can prove this to us. I don't think you a lesser person.

@powten
I just measured my lead strips and they are actually closer to 4......

Sorry if you wasted any lead on that, I can send you some if you did ;)

johncauthen
05-03-2007, 03:41 PM
Check out my racquet here (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1420785&postcount=14). This is obviously a pre-1988 racquet. It is pretty good proof I was doing this 20 years ago. And I did show it to Jim Baugh at Wilson when he was Product Manager.

The most telling thing was, he had names of racquets on his blackboard when they were trying to name the Profile. I wrote a letter in May 1988 suggesting the name Hammer. When they used my name and my upper handle weighting, I knew they had gotten the ideas from me.

My ideas changed tennis, and so far I've gotten nothing from it but derision. If this ever comes out as general knowledge, Wilson will be embarrassed by it, and could lose a lot of credibility, which is their main product. All they have to do is make it right with me before everyone knows what happened.

That should be easy. But tennis aficionados who now own everything want to add 15 grams to the heads of all racquets and take tennis back to the 50's, denying this weighting ever existed. To satisfy them, I have to be someone who is utterly crazy, destitute, and in poverty. They can't admit any of these ideas, which were originally my ideas, ever existed.

But these people's ideas to make racquets heavy and clumsy will destroy tennis. And besides that, today, Babolat is using a more obvious version of my idea than anyone and selling it in plain view on the racquet. So the head heavy guys aren't going to win, and Wilson is in danger of embarrassment unless they admit these were originally, in 1988, my ideas, which that photo proves unless I can fake an old beat up racquet.

ibringtheHEAT
05-03-2007, 03:42 PM
Yeah, well if I were in your position I would be pretty ****ed off as well. I highly doubt Wilson will give you a cut though. I guess we all just have to live on.

johncauthen
05-03-2007, 04:14 PM
TW could sell my modified Hammer. But TW is connected to the ATP who wants to deny any pros ever used this type of weighting. I ordered a Hammer 6.3 from TW yesterday to modify and sell.

If I sell these modified racquets and they perform better for average players than what is available, that is how my plight with Wilson will become general knowledge. That would embarrass Wilson and tennis insiders, maybe in a devastating way, since they kept players from having these racquets for 17 years. One man can bring down the whole establishment; but I don't want to, I would rather just live on, and they settle with me.

logansc
05-03-2007, 07:30 PM
The SOP with lead is add little bits at a time and see how the performance changes. TW has a pretty good little introductory website, I've noticed RedFlea usually posts it so I'll fill in...

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/LC/Customizing/customize.html

That gives you a basic run down on lead, also if you have a pro shop near by you can tell them what you are trying to accomplish and they are usually helpful and will set the racquet for your...for a price :)

powten
05-04-2007, 07:40 AM
John, what do you mean by
If you use my upper handle weight, using lead tape, cut each piece accurate to the millimeter and place the top of the tape accurately between 211 mm and 212 mm from the butt. You should love the mFil 300 modified that way
My 12 grams above the handle are just simple lead tape wrapped 3 times around the handle.

Moreover, I don't really understand what you mean by 3 1/2 inch strips
If I consider Babolat lead tape, this length corresponds to less than 4 grams...

johncauthen
05-04-2007, 10:35 AM
Yes, about 7 grams on the head total is enough. That would be two strips under 4-inches long, cut in half lengthwise to fit on each side of the strings.

For the handle, you need to cut strips of lead tape 66 mm long.

I had said 67 to 68 mm, but I changed it to 66 mm after more hitting with the racquet because it's that critical. One or two millimeters can make it feel good or bad.

Place the 66mm strips on the frame, under the grip if you want to, lengthwise, with the tops between 211 and 212 mm from the end of the butt cap.

When you measure the end of the butt cap, sight it so you can see both sides of the butt cap. Lay the ruler exactly at the end and place a piece of tape between 211 and 212 mm. Put the rest of the strips all around the handle, the same length from the
end.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/JohnCauthen/PICT0031-1.jpg

That is how to make upper handle weighting work using straight lead strips. You should add at least 13 grams. Keep adding 66mm lead strips until it feels heavy, then back off!

Redflea
05-04-2007, 10:38 AM
The SOP with lead is add little bits at a time and see how the performance changes. TW has a pretty good little introductory website, I've noticed RedFlea usually posts it so I'll fill in...

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/LC/Customizing/customize.html

That gives you a basic run down on lead, also if you have a pro shop near by you can tell them what you are trying to accomplish and they are usually helpful and will set the racquet for your...for a price :)

Dang...now I won't get my weekly allowance from the Society for the Pomotion of Lead! ;)

Here's another web page that has some good info on applying lead...a little more detailed than TWs. The original site has been taken down, but I found it on the wayback machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060407093123/http://www.tennis4all.com/info/racquets/customize.shtml

powten
05-04-2007, 11:34 AM
Thanks RedFlea for the link. I am going to read it tonight.
John, do you have a bigger picture concerning the lead at the top of the handle?

johncauthen
05-05-2007, 12:03 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/JohnCauthen/PICT0031.jpg

As you practice keep adding strips on top of the grip until it starts to feel heavy.

Dangus
05-05-2007, 12:28 PM
I have a photograph of one of my 20 year old Prince racquets. It has current Babolat technology!

Cortex does not add any significant weight to the racquet.

johncauthen
05-05-2007, 12:41 PM
When it's right you can't feel the weight. I engineer it with a precise length and location so I can't feel any extra weight on the racquet.

Once the upper handle weight is engineered correctly, a racquet company can remove weight from the rest of the handle. The racquet weighs the same, you can't feel where the weight is, but you play better.