PDA

View Full Version : This forum's gotten dull. Time to stir up some trouble.


circusmouse
05-04-2007, 10:35 PM
Here's an excerpt from Peter Bodo's Tennis.com blog (http://tennisworld.typepad.com/tennisworld/2007/05/io.html):

"Anyway, Pete (Sampras) told me that he finally took the plunge and went to a 95 sq. inch racquet, which is all of five square inches larger than the last one he used on tour and the current Federer wand of choice. He felt comfortable making the switch, he said, because of the new Luxilon strings (which he also uses). 'The trouble for me when I was playing on the tour was that I liked gut, and I found I just didn't have enough control when I tried bigger racquets. But I found these Luxilon strings, and when I mix them with gut, I get a great combination of power and control, even with the 95-inch racquet.'"

"In this, Pete was echoing what Andy Roddick had said about the Luxilon strings a few months ago, citing James Blake as a prime example of a player who really benefited from the new strings, which apparently allow you to take big cuts, yet still keep the ball from flying out. In fact, after last night's match, Pete told the press: 'I wish I'd had them (the Luxilon strings) when I was trying to win the French. I'm not as quick now, but I'm hitting the ball great.'"

Hmm. So Pete thinks the MP racquets aren't so bad if you use poly strings. Moreover, he's saying that gut doesn't work well on MP racquets. He doesn't quite say that a MP with poly is better than a mid with gut on fast surfaces, but he does imply that polys correct the only problem he had with MP racquets to begin with. Roddick's claims that big hitting fast court players like Blake benefit most from the polys. So if MP with poly is best on clay and apparently provides an advantage to fast court specialists, then what is the purpose of hitting with mids strung with gut? It might feel good, but it sounds like a disadvantage. Does anyone care to discuss?

circusmouse
05-04-2007, 10:55 PM
Also: before people start saying that the mid/gut setup is better for volleys, let me just point out that Pete, a S&V guy in my opinion, didn't say he was hitting well from the baseline. He said he was hitting great. No qualifiers.

tursafinov
05-04-2007, 11:00 PM
I agree it has been boring.

You get serious PROPS for reading Bodo.

If we were all under the impression that Pete was using the same mold as Federer, how could it be that he admits to using a 95''.
and furthermore saying it was only 5'' bigger than the last racquet he used on tour.

Maybe that's why Bodo writes instead of teaching algebra.
I'd like to know which luxilon pete is using.
I'm assuming Alu Power in silver like roger.

~Tursa

CanadianChic
05-04-2007, 11:04 PM
You mean the racquet section isn't full of fast-paced, exciting dialogue? I think a better question would be when wasn't this area of the forum not dull?

http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/happy/happy0194.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-msn-smileys.php)

Deuce
05-04-2007, 11:15 PM
Bodo's a rather complete ***.

tursafinov
05-04-2007, 11:23 PM
Bodo's a rather complete ***.

It's a free country, but I'd start that statement with "IMHO."
That's all no arguments.

Deuce
05-04-2007, 11:36 PM
It's a free country, but I'd start that statement with "IMHO."
I wouldn't.
And don't.

I'm as much a fan of 'political correctness' as I am a fan of Bodo's attention seeking sensationalism.
He writes like a 14 year old kid..

BreakPoint
05-04-2007, 11:54 PM
First of all, Pete's new racquet is 90 sq. in., same as Federer's, and NOT 95 sq. in.

Second, Pete may feel he plays well with poly now, but wait until he ages a few more years and starts getting tennis elbow from using that poly.

Lastly, feel is everything (unless you depend on winning tennis matches to earn a living).

Jack & Coke
05-05-2007, 12:38 AM
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedimages/NNTP_Photos/83620_Champions_Cup_Tennis.sff.jpg

Difficult to tell whether that is the n6.1 Tour 90 or the n6.1 95

Also, what do the double stencil lines on the stringbed mean? I forgot.

from: http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/tennis/articles/2007/05/02/sampras_back_in_the_running/



"..I'm using a newer Wilson racket, a little bigger, the one Roger uses. The new Luxilon strings -- I mix them with gut -- are a miracle. I wish I'd had them when I was trying to win the French. I'm not as quick, but I'm hitting the ball great.."

BreakPoint
05-05-2007, 12:55 AM
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedimages/NNTP_Photos/83620_Champions_Cup_Tennis.sff.jpg

Difficult to tell whether that is the n6.1 Tour 90 or the n6.1 95

Also, what do the double stencil lines on the stringbed mean? I forgot.

from: http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/tennis/articles/2007/05/02/sampras_back_in_the_running/

He is definitely using a 90, not a 95. Even he said last summer that he's using the same exact racquet as Federer. Also note the shorter handle pallet, just like Federer's custom racquets, and the thin beam. Whatever Federer uses, Sampras is using the same thing, as he probably just gets them from Federer's stash from the Wilson Pro Room. FWIW, the headsize looks exactly like a 90 to me, as I also use a nCode 90.

The two lines stencil on his strings means he's still using Babolat strings, that's their logo. So he's probably still using VS gut in a hybrid with the Luxilon.

ollinger
05-05-2007, 04:05 AM
"Last summer" is nearly a year ago, so what he said he was using then strikes me as irrelevant to what he may have decided to use now. And that head size next to a guy the size of Pete looks at least 95 to me.

KingOfTennis
05-05-2007, 04:13 AM
hey what luxilon strings is he talknig about?

Voltron
05-05-2007, 06:48 AM
I wouldn't.
And don't.

I'm as much a fan of 'political correctness' as I am a fan of Bodo's attention seeking sensationalism.
He writes like a 14 year old kid..
I'm 15, so are you implying that he writes only as well as myself?

cys19
05-05-2007, 06:56 AM
Also: before people start saying that the mid/gut setup is better for volleys, let me just point out that Pete, a S&V guy in my opinion, didn't say he was hitting well from the baseline. He said he was hitting great. No qualifiers.

Hey Circusmouse, are you still selling your Ti.Radical?

Jack & Coke
05-05-2007, 07:11 AM
Here's Pete at UCLA practicing with the nCode..

(originally posted by subtleskeptics (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/member.php?u=2760) )

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=112531

bluegrasser
05-05-2007, 07:39 AM
Bodo's a rather complete ***.

You mean *snort* Bodo *snort* is a complete *snort* ***** - agreed.

Polaris
05-05-2007, 11:03 AM
Bodo's a rather complete ***.
Blunt, but quite true. He has the forum and the audience to write something worthwhile, but only succeeds in generating cutesy nicknames and in fisking player quotes.

However, some of the people who comment on his articles are enjoyable and knowledgeable. There is this commenter named Dunlop Maxply who I like to read. Also paranoidandroid. They are probably around on this forum as well.

lethalfang
05-05-2007, 11:11 AM
First of all, Pete's new racquet is 90 sq. in., same as Federer's, and NOT 95 sq. in.

Second, Pete may feel he plays well with poly now, but wait until he ages a few more years and starts getting tennis elbow from using that poly.

Lastly, feel is everything (unless you depend on winning tennis matches to earn a living).

The kind of physical training and conditioning Pete has gone through, I don't think he'll ever have tennis elbow unless he starts using the ORIGINAL GAMMA BIG BUBBA Ultra-Supersize.

BreakPoint
05-05-2007, 11:36 AM
The kind of physical training and conditioning Pete has gone through, I don't think he'll ever have tennis elbow unless he starts using the ORIGINAL GAMMA BIG BUBBA Ultra-Supersize.
I wouldn't be so sure. Lots of pros get tennis elbow, including Roddick, Gasquet, Krajicek, etc. Krajicek's was bad enough that it effectively ended his career.

couch
05-05-2007, 11:56 AM
Do you use a nCode 90? No? Do I use a nCode 90? Yes? So who would know better how big it looks? Case closed.

BTW, I'm the same height and weight as Sampras, and that's exactly how big the nCode 90 looks against me.

BTW2, people like Sampras and Federer will never switch away from a box beam because box beams give racquets a totally unique feel and characteristic, and only the 90 has a box beam, not the 95.

Didn't Jim Courier switch from the PS 6.0 85 with a box beam to a 6.1 95 sq. in. frame without a box beam? Just curious.

couch
05-05-2007, 11:58 AM
I wouldn't be so sure. Lots of pros get tennis elbow, including Roddick, Gasquet, Krajicek, etc. Krajicek's was bad enough that it effectively ended his career.

That's a few examples of the thousands of pros who haven't. Just curious, what kind of racquet and string was Krajicek using when he developed TE? I'm pretty sure it wasn't a poly. :)

Dangus
05-05-2007, 12:17 PM
First of all, Pete's new racquet is 90 sq. in., same as Federer's, and NOT 95 sq. in.

"The trouble for me when I was playing on the tour was that I liked gut, and I found I just didn't have enough control when I tried bigger racquets. But I found these Luxilon strings, and when I mix them with gut, I get a great combination of power and control, even with the 95-inch racquet."

Excerpt taken from OP. Sounds like it's 95.

drakulie
05-05-2007, 01:12 PM
^^That excerpt also incorrectly states his racquet is now 5 square inches larger than his last racquet.

FYI, his last racquet was a 85 square inch racquet. That would make his new racquet a 90 square inch racquet.

RedKat
05-05-2007, 01:25 PM
FWIW, the headsize looks exactly like a 90 to me, as I also use a nCode 90.



Sorry BreakPoint, but this is ridiculous. You cannot tell the difference between 90 and 95 sq. inches by merely looking at the picture.

nickb
05-05-2007, 01:29 PM
You can easily tell a 90 from a 95 and thats 100% a 90. If you think thats a 95 there must be something wrong with your eyes.

drakulie
05-05-2007, 01:47 PM
Definitely looks like a 90 to me.

sureshs
05-05-2007, 02:23 PM
First of all, Pete's new racquet is 90 sq. in., same as Federer's, and NOT 95 sq. in.


Exactly. And has a diameter of 9", which is Brody's optimal topspin threshold, as I posted in another thread.

sureshs
05-05-2007, 02:27 PM
If you want to stir up trouble, consider posting about:

Advantages of small-headed racquets

Inadequacy of PS85 for today's game

Merits of Volkl racquets

BreakPoint
05-05-2007, 05:50 PM
Didn't Jim Courier switch from the PS 6.0 85 with a box beam to a 6.1 95 sq. in. frame without a box beam? Just curious.
No he did not. Courier is still using the PS 6.0 85 that he's always used (save for a couple of years with a clone when his Wilson contract expired), but with a nCode 90 paintjob for the past couple of years.

BreakPoint
05-05-2007, 05:51 PM
That's a few examples of the thousands of pros who haven't. Just curious, what kind of racquet and string was Krajicek using when he developed TE? I'm pretty sure it wasn't a poly. :)
And how do you know those thousands of other pros never had tennis elbow? Have you personally asked all of them? Just curious.

And I was responding that pros are indeed prone to tennis elbow (especially more so the guys with 1HBH's), whether they use poly or not (but probably more likely with poly).

BreakPoint
05-05-2007, 05:58 PM
Sorry BreakPoint, but this is ridiculous. You cannot tell the difference between 90 and 95 sq. inches by merely looking at the picture.
Sorry, but you've got that backwards, maybe YOU cannot tell the difference between a 90 and a 95, but I can. I've been using the nCode 90 for a couple of years so I ought to know what my own racquet looks like, don't you think? For one thing, the 95 has a much thicker beam and it's an oval beam, NOT a box beam like on the 90. Also, the nCode 90 looks exactly the size of the racquet that's in Sampras' hand.

VGP
05-05-2007, 06:03 PM
No he did not. Courier is still using the PS 6.0 85 that he's always used (save for a couple of years with a clone when his Wilson contract expired), but with a nCode 90 paintjob for the past couple of years.

Nope....Courier's moved on, just like Sampras.

(he switched after Sampras spanked him in an exo earlier this year - frame and strings)

Although, I suspect his is a retail n90 because the pics I saw had the grip wrapped up to the "boxed W." Or he could have a customized grip....he is a 2HBH player.

VGP
05-05-2007, 06:08 PM
BTW.....circusmouse, I don't think you've stirred up trouble.

Just pointing out the fact that even the diehards like Sampras have embraced the latest technology.

As for us amateurs, it don't matter if I stick with my PS85. I don't have the talent to serve 130 mph, or face Nadal level topspin.

I don't even play often enough to warrant an all-out racket change.

I tried it on a budget level experience when I bought some Dunlop HM200gs a couple of years ago.....I'm on the fence between that and the PS85......

I don't feel the need to go for gut/poly hybrids. My strings are just sitting there in my frames longing for play.

BreakPoint
05-05-2007, 06:10 PM
Nope....Courier's moved on, just like Sampras.

(he switched after Sampras spanked him in an exo earlier this year - frame and strings)

Although, I suspect his is a retail n90 because the pics I saw had the grip wrapped up to the "boxed W." Or he could have a customized grip....he is a 2HBH player.
If that's true then I stand corrected.

But as of last year when he played Sampras, Courier was most definitely still using his PS 6.0 85 with the nCode 90 paintjob:

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/71601793.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB2CD4AC53BE336FF2

couch
05-05-2007, 06:35 PM
First of all, Pete's new racquet is 90 sq. in., same as Federer's, and NOT 95 sq. in.

Second, Pete may feel he plays well with poly now, but wait until he ages a few more years and starts getting tennis elbow from using that poly.

Lastly, feel is everything (unless you depend on winning tennis matches to earn a living).

You say right here that Pete is going to get tennis elbow from using poly, no? And yes, pros can get tennis elbow (because they play tennis) but they are far less prone to getting tennis elbow than most the posters here (because they are good). Just because pros use poly doesn't mean they are going to develop tennis elbow as you say.

Oh, and feel is in the eye of the beholder. I have used kevlar and poly (and stiff racquets for the last 10 years for that matter) since the late 80's and love the "feel" of these types of strings. What can I say, "I love boards". I can't stand the "feel" of gut, multis, softer strings, etc. Oh and lastly, I'm 37 and have never had tennis elbow; go figure.

BreakPoint
05-05-2007, 07:22 PM
You say right here that Pete is going to get tennis elbow from using poly, no?
Yes I did, to which lethalfang posted this:
The kind of physical training and conditioning Pete has gone through, I don't think he'll ever have tennis elbow unless he starts using the ORIGINAL GAMMA BIG BUBBA Ultra-Supersize.
So I was responding to lethalfang that just because someone is a pro and goes through lots of physical training and conditioning does not mean that they are immune from tennis elbow. So there was no mention of poly.

And yes, pros can get tennis elbow (because they play tennis) but they are far less prone to getting tennis elbow than most the posters here (because they are good). Just because pros use poly doesn't mean they are going to develop tennis elbow as you say.
I'd say pros are MORE prone to getting tennis elbow because they play so much and all the time. Tennis elbow is a repetitive injury. The more you play, the more stress you put on the ligaments in your elbow and the more they can tear. And the older you get, the less elastic your ligaments become and the easier they are to tear. Add poly to this mix and older people (including pros) will likely put more stress on their elbows with poly than with gut, so they would be more likely to develop TE with poly than with gut the older that they get. Yes, even pros' elbows and ligaments age.

Oh, and feel is in the eye of the beholder. I have used kevlar and poly (and stiff racquets for the last 10 years for that matter) since the late 80's and love the "feel" of these types of strings. What can I say, "I love boards". I can't stand the "feel" of gut, multis, softer strings, etc. Oh and lastly, I'm 37 and have never had tennis elbow; go figure.
Count yourself very lucky. Not to scare you but I played tennis for almost 30 years without ever having a hint of tennis elbow, until I hit 40.

TalkingTennis91
05-05-2007, 07:38 PM
I'm an nCode 90 user, and that is most definitely a 90, due to the box beam, and the way that the PWS looks.

couch
05-05-2007, 07:54 PM
Yes I did, to which lethalfang posted this:

So I was responding to lethalfang that just because someone is a pro and goes through lots of physical training and conditioning does not mean that they are immune from tennis elbow. So there was no mention of poly.

I'd say pros are MORE prone to getting tennis elbow because they play so much and all the time. Tennis elbow is a repetitive injury. The more you play, the more stress you put on the ligaments in your elbow and the more they can tear. And the older you get, the less elastic your ligaments become and the easier they are to tear. Add poly to this mix and older people (including pros) will likely put more stress on their elbows with poly than with gut, so they would be more likely to develop TE with poly than with gut the older that they get. Yes, even pros' elbows and ligaments age.

Count yourself very lucky. Not to scare you but I played tennis for almost 30 years without ever having a hint of tennis elbow, until I hit 40.

The fact is you stated Pete would develop tennis elbow from using poly. I don't care what lethalfang stated all I know is you made that statement. You simply do not know this to be true since you can't see into the future.

I also understand that tennis elbow can be a repetitive injury but it is also an injury that occurs from poor technique and/or the jarring that occurs from not hitting the sweetspot consistently. It can also occur from using a racquet that is too heavy for you. That, too, can put added stress on an elbow, no?

Don't worry BP I don't scare very easily. I stay in great shape and tend to hit the sweetspot a majority of the time too. :) We all get older but to say that tennis elbow will be caused solely by using poly is just not true in every case which you seem to be saying.

You're fun to argue with. :):)

circusmouse
05-05-2007, 08:27 PM
BTW.....circusmouse, I don't think you've stirred up trouble.

I seem to have stirred up two unanticipated arguments: one about the size of Courier's racquet and another about how many pros have tennis elbows. That was all I meant when I said trouble. I thought it might produce some dialogue that would keep us tennis junkies entertained. Normally, when I start a thread asking for help, I get one or two responses at most, so it's fun for me to start a thread that's moved onto its second page. Personally, I have little opinion on the racquet size issue. I use a MP because that's what works for me, and I do think that a lot of the people I see on the courts using PS85s and PS90s would be better off with less demanding racquets. But mid-size racquets clearly have good qualities and work best for some people. Federer and Sampras seem to do ok with them.

VGP
05-05-2007, 08:34 PM
...I do think that a lot of the people I see on the courts using PS85s and PS90s would be better off with less demanding racquets. But mid-size racquets clearly have good qualities and work best for some people. Federer and Sampras seem to do ok with them.

That's the kind of thing that will (and has) stir up trouble......since Federer and Sampras are one in a million talents, some people will say that no one else should even think of using PS85s and k90s.......

BreakPoint
05-05-2007, 09:35 PM
The fact is you stated Pete would develop tennis elbow from using poly. I don't care what lethalfang stated all I know is you made that statement. You simply do not know this to be true since you can't see into the future.
Huh? You don't care what lethalfang stated? So the fact that I was responding to his statement when I said that lots of pros get TE is irrelevant to you? :confused: Even though you're the one that followed up with the statement that there are thousands of pros but that very few pros get TE? Sorry, but your logic does not follow.

The fact remains that Sampras is MUCH MORE likely to develop TE as he gets older if he continued to use poly than if he stayed with gut. I think everyone agrees that gut is much better for TE than poly is.

I also understand that tennis elbow can be a repetitive injury but it is also an injury that occurs from poor technique and/or the jarring that occurs from not hitting the sweetspot consistently. It can also occur from using a racquet that is too heavy for you. That, too, can put added stress on an elbow, no?
No, you can have perfect technique and still develop tennis elbow. You still put a certain amount of stress on your elbow (especially with a 1HBH) every time you hit the ball even if you have perfect technique. Of course, the stress is greater if you have poor technique. As you get older, the threshold of stress your elbow ligaments can handle becomes lower. So even perfect techique mixed with old age can still lead to tennis elbow.

And, no, it's lighter racquets that are worse for TE than heavier racquets are. Just read around this board at all the people that had elbow problems with lighter racquets and then switched to heavier racquets and their TE went away. Lighter racquets need to also be stiffer to generate power and stiffness is bad for the elbow. Light racquets also force your arm to do more of the work and absorb more of the shock and vibration because there's less mass to do the work for you in generating the needed momentum to counter the momentum of the incoming ball. This is what a lot of people who use heavier racquets call "plow-through" or "letting the racquet do the work".

In addition to lighter and stiffer racquets being bad for TE, longer racquets can be bad, too, because they cause more torque on the elbow as the lever is longer (the distance away from your hand and elbow the force is applied, i.e., where the ball impacts your racquets). When I developed TE a few years ago, it was a trifecta, as I was using a light, stiff, and extra-long racquet. Once I switched to a heavier, more flexible, and standard length racquet, my TE went away and hasn't been back. Then poly caused golfer's elbow for me. Once I switched back to nylon, my GE went away, too.

Heavier racquets can add stress to the shoulder though.

Don't worry BP I don't scare very easily. I stay in great shape and tend to hit the sweetspot a majority of the time too. :) We all get older but to say that tennis elbow will be caused solely by using poly is just not true in every case which you seem to be saying.

You're fun to argue with. :):)
I never said "every case". But the way Sampras hits his 1HBH, he is much, much more likely to develop TE as he gets older if he continued to use poly than if he contiuned to use gut (as he has for all of his career). That's a given.

southpaw
05-05-2007, 09:47 PM
The kind of physical training and conditioning Pete has gone through, I don't think he'll ever have tennis elbow unless he starts using the ORIGINAL GAMMA BIG BUBBA Ultra-Supersize.

Q: "Have you ever had a sore arm?"
PETE SAMPRAS: "Constantly. When you play week after week and as tight as I string my rackets, depending on the conditions, if they are cold or playing indoors, my arm can be dead. I've had arm trouble on and off my whole career."

BreakPoint
05-05-2007, 09:54 PM
Q: "Have you ever had a sore arm?"
PETE SAMPRAS: "Constantly. When you play week after week and as tight as I string my rackets, depending on the conditions, if they are cold or playing indoors, my arm can be dead. I've had arm trouble on and off my whole career."
In fact, if you watch that 2001 Wimbledon match between Sampras and Federer, you can see Pete massaging his elbow while seated during every changeover.

Serve 'em hard
05-05-2007, 10:04 PM
You mean the racquet section isn't full of fast-paced, exciting dialogue? I think a better question would be when wasn't this area of the forum not dull?


Let's poll it! What's more dull, discussing tennis racquets with like minded lovers of the game, or pretending to order drinks in an imaginary tavern in the social forum while people post pictures of their cats and dogs and talk endlessly about how cute and special they are and how their "personalities" are so unique?:confused: :grin: :o

couch
05-06-2007, 07:42 AM
Q: "Have you ever had a sore arm?"
PETE SAMPRAS: "Constantly. When you play week after week and as tight as I string my rackets, depending on the conditions, if they are cold or playing indoors, my arm can be dead. I've had arm trouble on and off my whole career."

Well first of all his arm problems and the posters arm problems on these boards are two different things. LOL It's pretty funny that Pete had arm problems his whole life and still managed a meager 14 major titles. :):)

I guess from that statement from Pete I can surmize that his gut and tight tensions caused his arm problems? :)

couch
05-06-2007, 08:03 AM
Second, Pete may feel he plays well with poly now, but wait until he ages a few more years and starts getting tennis elbow from using that poly.

Breakpoint, here's your original quote before lethalfang even responded, correct? I'm replying to you not lethalfang. So like I said, I don't care what he stated, I'm not talking to him. What's so hard to understand about that? You use his statement to try to cover up yours to prove your point.

All I'm saying is that it's not a correct statement in saying Pete will develop tennis elbow because he's using poly, that's all. You can't see into the future so how do you know?

And why does my logic not follow? So you're saying there aren't thousands of pros playing tennis right now without tennis elbow. Seems if we followed "your" logic then all the pros using poly would have tennis elbow. ;) And there are a lot of pros that have used kevlar and/or poly for a heck of a long time. Again, take me for example and I'm not even a pro. :) Well, not a pro compared to the pros.

And your statement about the fact Pete is more likely to develop tennis elbow if he continues to use poly rather than gut is definitely flawed. Didn't Pete string his 85 sq. in racquets at like 80lbs? Do you know for a fact what he strings his 90 sq. in racquets with poly at? I bet it's lower. So what's worse: Stringing at 80 lbs with gut or let's say 65 lbs with poly? I don't know what Pete's stringing his current racquets at, nor do I care. I just think you make a lot of assumptions without knowing all the facts.

And you can also have perfect technique and never develop tennis elbow no matter what setup you use. Just look at "most" of the pros. :) I think you should put a disclaimer on your posts something like this: "All things being equal" this may or may not happen. :)

Fun stuff on the TW Boards.

WhiteSox05CA
05-06-2007, 08:26 AM
He's got to be using the (K)Factor now.

BreakPoint
05-06-2007, 11:36 AM
I guess from that statement from Pete I can surmize that his gut and tight tensions caused his arm problems?

All I'm saying is that it's not a correct statement in saying Pete will develop tennis elbow because he's using poly, that's all. You can't see into the future so how do you know?
Wait, Pete got tennis elbow in his 20's while using gut, so he's NOT going to get tennis elbow using poly in his late 30's and 40's when he already has beat up and aging ligaments in his elbow? OK, tell me another one.

And why does my logic not follow? So you're saying there aren't thousands of pros playing tennis right now without tennis elbow. Seems if we followed "your" logic then all the pros using poly would have tennis elbow.
I guess logic is not your "thing"? When did I EVER say that ALL pros that use poly get tennis elbow? :confused: Show me, please!

You said that thousands of pros do not have tennis elbow. I asked you how you knew that. Here's what I DID say:

And I was responding that pros are indeed prone to tennis elbow (especially more so the guys with 1HBH's), whether they use poly or not (but probably more likely with poly).

I also said that Sampras will likely get tennis elbow from using poly "as he ages a few more years". How many pros on the tour using poly are 40 years old? How about NONE!!

So what do many of the pros out of the thousands of pros that may have TE have anything at all to do with Sampras "as he ages a few more years"? They are two completely different statements. I made one statement about Sampras and then a completely unrelated statement in my response to lethalfang's post. But you don't care about what lethalfang posted because all you care about is to try and bust me on something that isn't even there to bust me on because, sadly, you don't do "logic". :-(

And your statement about the fact Pete is more likely to develop tennis elbow if he continues to use poly rather than gut is definitely flawed. Didn't Pete string his 85 sq. in racquets at like 80lbs? Do you know for a fact what he strings his 90 sq. in racquets with poly at? I bet it's lower. So what's worse: Stringing at 80 lbs with gut or let's say 65 lbs with poly?
Sampras strung his PS 6.0 85 with gut at around 72-75 lbs. You can string gut at very high tensions and it will still have most of its resiliency and be forgiving and still pocket the ball, unlike synthetic strings, be it multis, monos, nylon, poly, or whatever. That's why so many people swear by gut. Pete is stringing now with a gut/poly hybrid, so he's likely stringing the gut still pretty tight, especially considering he's now using a bigger head, which means you have to string even tighter than a smaller head to acheive the same response and control off of the stringbed.

And you can also have perfect technique and never develop tennis elbow no matter what setup you use.
True, but some set-ups are more likely to cause tennis elbow than others, which is why they have tennis elbow friendly strings, racquets, etc. You can also have bad technique and never get tennis elbow regardless of your set-up, too. But bad technique and/or the wrong set-up could certainly increase your liklihood of developing TE.

If you've ever had tennis elbow, perhaps you would actually understand what it is and what causes it.

Deuce
05-06-2007, 04:02 PM
Somewhere on this message board, at all hours, day and night - as his whopping post count indicates - BreakPoint is perpetually attempting to explain to someone what he "really means".
His posts are littered with statements like "I didn't say that" and "What I meant was...", as he desperately tries to untie the worded knots he tied himself up in.

He succeeds, with his neverending 'explanations' of 'what he really meant', only in tightening the knots, to the point where others conclude that it is not worth the time nor the effort to argue with someone who turns words - both his own and those of others - into pretzels in order to make himself appear 'right'.

Given the overwhelming number of times he finds himself in the position of being questioned and of having to 'explain' what he 'really meant', perhaps the problem is with him, and not with the rest of us...

BreakPoint
05-06-2007, 06:17 PM
If only half the people on this board could read my statments correctly and stop trying to interpret what they think I'm saying instead of just taking my statements at face value, they wouldn't be so confused and embarrass themselves as they do. Bottom line is, if you can't find where I said exactly what you think I said, then I didn't say it, did I? Seems pretty obvious to me, but I know there are some people on his board that just wish I said what they want me to say, even though I never said it, in their futile, childlike attempts to bust me on something and tarnish my credibility. Sad really.

couch
05-06-2007, 06:22 PM
Somewhere on this message board, at all hours, day and night - as his whopping post count indicates - BreakPoint is perpetually attempting to explain to someone what he "really means".
His posts are littered with statements like "I didn't say that" and "What I meant was...", as he desperately tries to untie the worded knots he tied himself up in.

He succeeds, with his neverending 'explanations' of 'what he really meant', only in tightening the knots, to the point where others conclude that it is not worth the time nor the effort to argue with someone who turns words - both his own and those of others - into pretzels in order to make himself appear 'right'.

Given the overwhelming number of times he finds himself in the position of being questioned and of having to 'explain' what he 'really meant', perhaps the problem is with him, and not with the rest of us...

Thanks Deuce. I couldn't have said it better myself. :D

couch
05-06-2007, 06:37 PM
Wait, Pete got tennis elbow in his 20's while using gut, so he's NOT going to get tennis elbow using poly in his late 30's and 40's when he already has beat up and aging ligaments in his elbow? OK, tell me another one.

I guess logic is not your "thing"? When did I EVER say that ALL pros that use poly get tennis elbow? :confused: Show me, please!

You said that thousands of pros do not have tennis elbow. I asked you how you knew that. Here's what I DID say:


I also said that Sampras will likely get tennis elbow from using poly "as he ages a few more years". How many pros on the tour using poly are 40 years old? How about NONE!!

So what do many of the pros out of the thousands of pros that may have TE have anything at all to do with Sampras "as he ages a few more years"? They are two completely different statements. I made one statement about Sampras and then a completely unrelated statement in my response to lethalfang's post. But you don't care about what lethalfang posted because all you care about is to try and bust me on something that isn't even there to bust me on because, sadly, you don't do "logic".

Sampras strung his PS 6.0 85 with gut at around 72-75 lbs. You can string gut at very high tensions and it will still have most of its resiliency and be forgiving and still pocket the ball, unlike synthetic strings, be it multis, monos, nylon, poly, or whatever. That's why so many people swear by gut. Pete is stringing now with a gut/poly hybrid, so he's likely stringing the gut still pretty tight, especially considering he's now using a bigger head, which means you have to string even tighter than a smaller head to acheive the same response and control off of the stringbed.

True, but some set-ups are more likely to cause tennis elbow than others, which is why they have tennis elbow friendly strings, racquets, etc. You can also have bad technique and never get tennis elbow regardless of your set-up, too. But bad technique and/or the wrong set-up could certainly increase your liklihood of developing TE.

If you've ever had tennis elbow, perhaps you would actually understand what it is and what causes it.

Who's to say Pete is going to get tennis elbow because he's using poly? As I said, I'm 37 and not a pro player and use a stiffer racquet with poly and haven't ever had tennis elbow. Maybe Pete got TE from stringing the gut so tight, who know's. The fact of the matter is that you don't.

You never said all pros would get tennis elbow but from your "assumption" that Pete would in the next couple of years pretty much means to me that you think every pro will get tennis elbow if they use poly.

And you didn't say he would "likely" get tennis elbow; you said he would get tennis elbow in the post before you responded to lethalfang. Man, I don't know why lethalfang keeps coming up. :confused:

I also don't care what string you use if you are stringing it as tight as Sampras was when he was playing it's going to not only stiffen the string but it's also going to stiffen up the racquet too. You say Pete is stringing with a Poly hybrid and "likely" stringing the gut still pretty tight. Again, this is an assumption on your part.

Have a good night disecting my reply BP. I see things haven't changed since I've been away a little while. :) But it's always fun debating with you BP. :) I'm not trying to tick you off I just like the playful banter.

Leoboomanu
05-06-2007, 06:43 PM
Let's poll it! What's more dull, discussing tennis racquets with like minded lovers of the game, or pretending to order drinks in an imaginary tavern in the social forum while people post pictures of their cats and dogs and talk endlessly about how cute and special they are and how their "personalities" are so unique?:confused: :grin: :o

hahaha... now that's forcing the issue... hahaha...

if something's not to your liking, you call it dull...

CC's tavern can talk about racquets too, and SERVE'emHARD you can get a cat as well...

Phew... goin' to CC's for a beer... No hard feelings...

BTW... never knew 9" was optimal for topspin... thanks for the info...

BreakPoint
05-06-2007, 06:47 PM
Thanks Deuce. I couldn't have said it better myself. :D
Here's couch's sense of logic:

I said, in two separate posts:

1. Sampras risks getting tennis elbow if he continues to use poly as he ages a few more years. (No mention of other current pros)

2. (In response to another post on tennis elbow) Just because you're a pro and go through physical training and conditioning does not mean that you won't get tennis elbow. (No mention of poly nor Sampras)

For some inexplicable reason, couch adds my two statement together and interprets it as:

I'm saying ALL current pros (of which there are "thousands") that use poly WILL get tennis elbow.

Where the heck does that come from??? :confused: Out of left field??

Yes, I'd say what's sorely needed on this board is reading comprehension.

RafaN RichardG
05-06-2007, 06:53 PM
wait wait wait, lol why does everyone (Roddick, Bodo, Spadea) feel the need to diss Blake's game?
i dont get it, i mean, Andy IS (NOT) one to talk about people benefiting from Poly strings, he DOES use a Pure Drive and flaunt the fastest serve on the ATP...Blake uses a very controlled racquet so its not like its the strings keeping the ball in as much as it is the tight string pattern, thin beam, and midsize(95 sq in) head... i mean, James benefiting from the poly strings didnt seem to be an issue until he became the highest ranked american for that moment...
does anyone have a quote from andy regarding James' style of play benefitting from the strings, i hadnt heard of it until i skimmed over the first page of this thread

BreakPoint
05-06-2007, 06:59 PM
Who's to say Pete is going to get tennis elbow because he's using poly? As I said, I'm 37 and not a pro player and use a stiffer racquet with poly and haven't ever had tennis elbow. Maybe Pete got TE from stringing the gut so tight, who know's. The fact of the matter is that you don't.
Because Pete's had tennis elbow for most of his career (as he admitted) and poly could only make it worse. It certainly isn't going to make it better. You have a lot learn about the difference between gut and poly. So just because you use poly and never had tennis elbow means that no one will? Is everyone else's technique the same as yours? BTW, do you use a 1HBH or a 2HBH?

And pros are just as likely to get TE, maybe even more so, because they play tennis 8 hours a day under the most intense conditions (e.g., their opponents hit the ball much harder which puts even more stress on your elbow when you return it, etc.).

You never said all pros would get tennis elbow but from your "assumption" that Pete would in the next couple of years pretty much means to me that you think every pro will get tennis elbow if they use poly.

How many current pros on tour are over 40 years old? How many pros over 40 do you know of that use poly?

And you didn't say he would "likely" get tennis elbow; you said he would get tennis elbow in the post before you responded to lethalfang.
Again, because he's had TE most of his life already.

I also don't care what string you use if you are stringing it as tight as Sampras was when he was playing it's going to not only stiffen the string but it's also going to stiffen up the racquet too.
There's a night and day difference between gut and poly and how harsh they are on your elbow. Do yourself a favor, string the same racquet at 75 lbs. with gut and then at 75 lbs. with poly and tell me if your elbow feels a difference.

Serve 'em hard
05-06-2007, 09:56 PM
hahaha... now that's forcing the issue... hahaha...

if something's not to your liking, you call it dull...

CC's tavern can talk about racquets too, and SERVE'emHARD you can get a cat as well...

Phew... goin' to CC's for a beer... No hard feelings...



CC called THIS forum dull. I merely pointed out that she lives in a glass house on this issue...:p

SoBad
05-06-2007, 09:57 PM
CC called THIS forum dull. I merely pointed out that she lives in a glass house on this issue...:p

Hello! No more dull! There is a new study awaiting your input under O&E - hello!@!