View Full Version : I want an honest opinion of Feds game now from non fans...

05-12-2007, 09:35 PM
i would like to hear from all the non fed fans and would like an honest opinion of what you guys see in his game that looks differently than the last 3 years.

guys like morrissey who i disagree with a lot mainly due to his overzealous love for nadal is a good example. i think morrissey is probably a good guy when we arent butting heads on here and knows some about tennis so i would like to hear from you.

all the knotheads that are just nadal cheerleaders wont really add anything, i just want smart tennis people who are biased to give their opinions. for instance d you think this is a mini slump iike roddick had and nadal had last year or do you think his time has passed?

im a huge fan of his but a realistic one and here is what i see. it looks to me like his backhand has actually improved a bit especially on clay but his vaunted forehand is just all over the place. he and davidenko have maybe the best footwork in the game but i really havent noticed if he has been lazy in his footwork or not lately.

his serve is still good but more erratic from match to match, when he serves well he wins. i can t put my finger on what is wrong with his forehand buts the timing is just not there. he is shanking balls like crazy now.

i do think nadal is in his a head a bit although i still think fed will beat him on hard courts and grass more often than not. i think its obvisous that guys who have that grinding game like nadal and canas trouble feds game. he gets frustrated and he seems to be less patient than he used to be.

i dont know honestly if this is a mini slump during clay season of if it will continue the rest of the year. i dont think hes done by any means, i think he will wimbledon and then get upset in the quarters or semis in the us open.

that would still be an awesome year but his game has to go somewhere and since he has been at the pinnacle for so long he may be heading down a but now but the question will be for how long, a month or for the rest of his career.

i would like some honest non biased opinions...

05-12-2007, 09:50 PM
i've got the matches for both of his losses to canas and seem them both at least a few times....i'm not an expert but i see that his body language gives off the message that he does not feel like he wants to win...its all mental for federer...right now he's thinking too much about nadal and how to beat him, particularly on clay, and with the french open coming....its a thought which is affecting his game against other players

the other thing is that he's losing to nadal again and again....monte carlo, the doubles match, even the battle of the surfaces....

with his split from roche, i think federer needs to go solo for a while, and play the type of tennis which got him to #1, nearly beat nadal in rome last year, and the type of tennis which won him the first set of the french open final last year, 6-1.......if he can maintain 75-80% of that level, he is at even terms with nadal

i respect nadal a lot for his tenacity and intensity, but after seeing federer have 2 match points and the tennis played in the first set of the french open final (and wimbledon final).....its just the big mental block which is stopping federer (and us) from witnessing perhaps the greatest level of tennis of all time

05-12-2007, 10:00 PM
Basically, Federer has the same problem on clay that Nadal has on the fast surfaces:
Problem = There are many players who can take him out. It won't be easy for both to fix this problem.

05-12-2007, 10:05 PM
Basically, Federer has the same problem on clay that Nadal has on the fast surfaces:
Problem = There are many players who can take him out. It won't be easy for both to fix this problem.

but mick,...federer doesnt have as big as a problem as nadal does...last year federer didnt lose a single match on clay to anyone besides nadal...and this year he's lost to volandri, but also nadal

nadal loses to players like blake, berdych, youzhny on the fast surfaces...he also lost to joachim johansson on a fast indoor surface late last year

but you are right that its far from easy for both of them to fix this problem (harder for nadal though)

05-12-2007, 10:14 PM
yep but Nadal has youth on his side. At nearly 26, Federer is already close to his peak. Perhaps Nadal could improve on the fast surfaces when he is a little bit older but only time can answer that :)

05-12-2007, 11:17 PM
On slower surfaces, Federer's serve isn't as potent and his incredible reflexes on returning of serve aren't as beneficial as most players don't have problems returning serve on slower surfaces. I believe the high bounces really bother his game as well compared to low bounces, which he has no problems with. Federer's forehand has actually been making more errors than normal as well. I think Federer's so-called slump will end after the French Open as he will dominate all the fast tournaments.

05-12-2007, 11:48 PM
I agree that Federer's main problem is his mentality right now. However, I have noticed that his footwork running to his forehand has degraded alot, when is the last time you saw him hit an awesome running forehand? Also, I have noticed that he is getting very lazy with footwork, generally missing more forehands that come 1 to 2 steps to his right, he gets lazy and just stops moving.

Another big thing, is that he isn't getting down on his forehand too much either. He used to be getting his knees down amazingly, but now he is nearly upright on every forehand he hits. I have a feeling that he wasn't doing to many footwork drills after Dubai.

All of this combined with a loss of confidence have attributed to this. I have a feeling that he is going to be back soon though, either for the French or for Wimbledon.

05-13-2007, 12:00 AM
well I'm a fed fan, but im a bigger nadal fan. I really dont' know what to tell you. I saw the match against volandri (and against nadal in MC). I mean, he wasn't playing his best in MC, but this was preposterous. I mean, yah volandri had a good week, but he really wasn't playing out of his ind tennis by any means. the way I saw it, he played a solid match and that was enough to beat the world's no. 1. on the other end of the court was, in roger, a player who was relaly struggling to do anything. there were times where hed make a horrible forehand error, and i could just feel a double fault coming and it would come. any time I can predict a double by "feel" and it happens, that means im sensing a time for him to crack mentally and he's doing it. that doesn't bode well for RG. this game is mental, cause we sure as hell know hes got it physical.

05-13-2007, 12:19 AM
Could it possibly be a case of repetition clouding ambition? I mean the constant expectation of having to win the same matches time after time must get to even the most ambitious players. I even notice this in Nadal - my best player- after a match he has won. The elation of winning isn't QUITE so obvious as it was in previous years - sort of "been there done that" I still think Federer is a terrific player - although not a fan - the fact he is losing may not be anything to do with tennis.

05-13-2007, 12:24 AM
Yeah I think Federer is usually very focused during the clay season. I just don't think he is as comfortable on this surface. Last year he hit his peak on clay and only lost to Nadal. He's still the second best on clay but is definitely beatable unlike fast hard courts and grass where he is almost unbeatable. He did come a week early to Rome but still didn't help.

05-13-2007, 01:38 AM
I'd say his baseline tennis has gone down dramatically..he makes too many UFE's and if you want to have a chance against the big guns in clay you can not do so many of them...
Remember Caņas in Miami and IW??? Beating him from the baseline all the time (like Nadal)..

I imagine this errors come from his lost of self-confidence.. It has to be tought to be so close from being the best player ever and to have a guy like Nadal there just unbeateble in clay...

I guess Roger is just a bit disappointed because he might be thinking that he will never be able to win RG while Rafa is out there...

I know he can do it because he has talent but does he have the head and the heart??

05-13-2007, 01:53 AM
Actually, the rest of tour is catching up. New generations of players
gotten good quick.

In 2006, he started to struggle at early rounds but still got thru with
his B or C game.

Look how Davydenko plays now. He achieved similar level toward the end
of 2006. There are many players now who have mastered this baseline
yo-yo game, the main stream of current tennis that Federer and Nadal are so
good at.

Now, Federer needs at least B+ game or A- game to get thru early rounds.

05-13-2007, 02:19 AM
I think Fed's biggest problem is no matter what he does, what he wins, people -including himself - don't care anymore. He's achieved everything in the game bar overtaking Sampras' grandslam record (which most people take as a given he'll surpass), and winning the French/beating Nadal on clay.
As a result whether it's always on his mind or just below the surface, the name Nadal is ALWAYS there.

It must be so dispiriting for him, to be so good, have all the plaudits, all the success, to beat practically everyone for 3years without having to use top gear, and everyone lining up to acclaim him as the 'GOAT' with 1 condition..... He must win the French, just as this truly phenomenal craeture called Nadal appears on the scene.
As a result he's obvously put pretty much all his time and effort into finding a way to beat the spaniard, to the detriment of his overall game when facing others.
Also, every time he suffers a defeat to Nadal on clay, the bigger the mental block over this becomes. Against Volandri, i was shocked not only at the truly woeful standard of play from Fed, but also his fight (Wilander's FO comments coming to mind). It's like, he's become so depressed over his continual failure to overcome this final hurdle, thst it's infected his whole game. Even though he doesn't show a lot of emotion you can tell that Fed is highly irritable at the moment. Watch his 2 defeats to canas and volandri, and witness the lack of patience as he slashed unforced error after unforced error.
To my mind he has no desire to stay out there and grind out wins over such 'inferior' players. They don't belong on the same court as him. He just wants to slap them aside like annoying bugs so he can once again face the 'real' challenge. But when he gets there it all falls apart and it's back to square one.
I really want Fed to win the French, but the more i see him play Nadal the less convinced i am that he can do it. This is a really interesting time now as i feel this latest defeat could be a wake-up call for him and he'll go up a gear...or he may fall apart.

05-13-2007, 05:46 AM
I honestly think it's a case of thinking too much and trying too hard. Federer might just be too preoccupied with trying to win, that it's making his game less fluent. It can just happen when you're thinking of how to win this, and that interferes with the natural timing. Results in many shanks, and before you know it you've lost the match.

05-13-2007, 08:13 AM
I think this a mini slump for Federer. We've seen this alot during the clay court season with Federer. The only difference is that his time he's losing to Volandri. But also now Roche has seperated from Federer his main mentor. Federer is going to need to suck everything he's been taught by Mr.Roche

05-13-2007, 08:38 AM
Federer is conserving his energy for the French Open

He's allowing the field to gain confidence so that one of them can take out Nadal, who he doesn't want to face in the final.

Mirka's been witholding pleasure favors lately and its thrown him off balance.

05-13-2007, 09:12 AM
If I had to classify this I would say "slump." I don't think we'll see a 2004-2005 Tiger Woods kind of slump, but Roger is nowhere near his level from Wimbledon 2006-AO 2007. I could care less about Canas, that guy was fresh off a suspension with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove. He proved it in a big way, twice, but I doubt he will "dominate" Fed for the rest of his days. Roger seems off, lazy, complacent, just overall not great at the moment. I would love to say he's holding out for the French, but it may just be apathy on his part. I will say this though, if he wins the French, everyone will forget about IW, Miami, and Rome. I think we all know that Roger's most important tourney of the year is in Paris this year, surely he must feel the same way. Regardless, Roger is struggling right now and Nadal is far and away the favorite for Paris. I think we'll see the old Federer at Wimbledon, and the Summer HC series. Those are his favorite surfaces and he'll come to play.

05-13-2007, 09:30 AM
If you compare Fed now with the Fed 2-3 years ago, it seems as if he isn't having fun and he doesn't come to play. Some days he just doesn't move his feet. He shanks shots and doesn't play agressively. I mean, in the Canas match, Fed didn't have that agressive mentality to finish points decisively. Instead, he got stuck in a grinding match. I guess it has gotten to the point when the glitz, glamour, and glory have caught up with him. For some time, all we heard and all he heard were how many records can he break, how many titles, who can stop him, and what's next (obviously, the French). If you look at his on court attitude and persona lately, it seems that tennis has taken a step back. The Winbledon jacket, appearances with Tiger, being the first person to promote Wilson's new racquet line, exhibition matches (probably some money under the table invovled). It just isn't the Federer tennis that we see. His shots are progressively becoming routine with the ocassional "ooh" and "aah." The creativity flare and shotmaking has decreased somewhat and he has seemed to be content with duking it out at the baseline. When he first won his early GS titles, his shotmaking was ridiculously sick and it was just good ole Federer tennis. Simply put, Federer isn't playing tennis and isn't playing to win. Despite what you may say about his desire to win, if he keeps up with saying he played just fine with too many errors and doesn't fix his problems tournaments after tournaments, then he isn't playing to win.

Also, Federer has utterly dominated the tour (with the exception of Nadal when they meet, but that's another discussion) for the past 3ish years. Other players have realized this and tried to close the gap. If you look at the style of the game right now, players are playing more of an all-around game with considerably more net play. Federer needs to step it up another notch mentally, physically, and tennis-wise to extend the gap. If he doesn't, even Roddick can beat him (that wasn't a joke).

05-13-2007, 09:49 AM
To put it short, my view is that he needs to bring more of his opponents to the net (Nadal). Also, even though federer is the best player in the world, does he actually hit any of shots the best on tour? Roddick has the best serve, Nalbandian the best backhand and Nadal the best forehand. I generally feel that federer's game put together is superb but his individual shots arent the best on tour.

jackson vile
05-13-2007, 10:17 AM
Biggest problem I have seen his Roger forcing the net play, he needs to go back to what is more natural to him and listen to his instincts.

The thing is fan or no fan Roger can do some extremely amazing things, not only because of his work ethic and mind but because he was born with the right instincts.

That is when he played his best tennis, IMO with Roche they are attempting to form a solution and apply it to a problem that does not exist.

Roger does not need a coach he just needs to relax, stay focused and go back to what has always worked. There was never a need for Roche or this extra net play ect as a result Roger has payed the price.

05-14-2007, 04:34 AM
To put it short, my view is that he needs to bring more of his opponents to the net (Nadal). Also, even though federer is the best player in the world, does he actually hit any of shots the best on tour? Roddick has the best serve, Nalbandian the best backhand and Nadal the best forehand. I generally feel that federer's game put together is superb but his individual shots arent the best on tour.

Federer has the best forehand on every surface but clay. Nadal's FH, with its insane topspin, is a detriment on any surface but clay, because it results in lest pace, less depth, and a higher bounce, which on hardcourt, and especially grass and carpet, puts the ball right in amny people's comfort zones.

05-14-2007, 05:48 AM
I have been thinking that Fed does not look as fit as he did last year. Greg Rusedski made a comment yesterday on Sky that he was slimmer last year and I had been thinking the same thing. Anyone else noticed this?

05-14-2007, 07:09 AM
Last year, at Wimbledon, the general lament was that there was not a single player out there who could beat Federer - apart from Nadal on clay - I have a feeling that much will be the same this year. We really need the younger players to realise that it is not beyond them to conquer him and I don't mean when he is having an off day. I don't mean also this in a negative way, but so many players are overawed by Federer that although they play fantastic tennis in the run up to the finals - when they are confronted by him on centre court they seem to lose all the confidence they have managed to build up prior to playing him. Nadal nearly managed to beat him last year at Wimbledon . If he could play better on grass than he did last year then we could see something exciting happening.

05-14-2007, 07:15 AM
he is slumping. but he is probably just frustrated because he cant master clay like he has with grass and hard courts. so maybe be will focus more for it next year

05-14-2007, 07:42 AM
Too much overanalysis.....

I don't think Federer's doing much different than the past couple of years. That's the resulting problem, which is twofold: 1. he's set the bar high and the rest of the tour is trying to match that level. 2. he's suffering from some burnout. Federer is human after all.

It is a transitional time for Federer, and he recongnizes this hence the coaching change. It won't be another year where he wins double-digit titles.......he'll just have to make some adjustments. How major or minor we'll have to see. I expect that he won't be able to grind off the ground as much as he has been able to. He'll have to come to the net more and force some plays. I don't think he'll can make a complete transition to S&V like Sampras did. It's not in his nature and the current tour conditions don't favor it.

After all the talk about Federer's greatness, it would be a shame if he didn't break the 14 GS singles title mark....

My wife had predicted about a year ago that Federer will burnout. We'll see if it happens. He may have to do like Sampras if Roland Garros doesn't happen for him, he'll have to draw on Wimbledon to rack up the GS titles. The summer hardcourt season is long and the US Open is tricky.

People say that Federer's "near" his peak, but I think he's peaked already.

05-14-2007, 07:47 AM
He's not watching the ball!

05-14-2007, 08:25 AM
The Fed funhouse is closed but it is coming to a challenger circuit near you.

05-14-2007, 08:37 AM
nadal loses to players like black, berdych, youzhny on the fast surfaces...he also lost to joachim johansson on a fast indoor surface late last year

Black??? Who's that? Don't you know or are you just such a racist? :p

05-14-2007, 09:28 AM
Fed goes into a little slump and everyones bashing him? I am no Fed fan by any means but everyone has thier slumps, now, if this had been going on for around a year, then yes, this question is valid.

05-14-2007, 10:01 AM
The Fed 1000 has been malfunctioning, he will now be replaced by the T1000 a more emotional cyborg who doesn't lose to grinders.

05-14-2007, 05:20 PM
Black??? Who's that? Don't you know or are you just such a racist? :p

i have no idea how i wrote black instead of blake....blake's one of the players on the tour i enjoy watching too.....i apologize for the mistake and i have edited the post

must have been the lack of sleep plus work...thanks for the heads up mate :)

05-14-2007, 09:20 PM
haha...isn't there a Cara Black on the WTA? Be a bit shocking if Nadal lost to her...

05-14-2007, 10:14 PM
I would hate to see Federer disappear from the game. His game is just phenomenal to watch. But after watching Nadal destroy Gonzales, coming to the net, and running like a moose possessed. I am going to announce that only an upset by davydenko in the RG draw will allow Fed to win the French. Which could HAPPEN. Nadal is getting better and Fed has peaked.

Nadal covers the court in such a way, that it actually makes his strokes appear sort of average, which they are not. But he puts SUCH, emphasis, on his coverage. Its BORGIAN.

Borg did the exact same thing, he just cat and moused you, and he freaked guys out. He just moved better than anyone else out there. So does this nadal, ON CLAY.

05-14-2007, 11:21 PM
But the problem is that current tour is designed for more homogeneous
playing condition with the best of 18 ranking system.

It favors more concentrated domination but it's tougher for longer term

That's why he could win 3 slams a year but probably would not last
a decade like lendle or Sampras who played in much more polarized
playing conditions.

In fact, 3 years already surprised me and if he continues to dominate
4th and 5th year, I would be totally amazed and call Federer a definite GOAT.