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SgtJohn
05-13-2007, 06:46 AM
Hi everyone,

This is a question about very very long ago, but I know how some people from this forum are very knowledgeable about tennis history so I try it : I read articles about the very beginnings of tennis clearly stating that there were only 2 big tournaments at the time: Wimbledon and the Irish Championship in Dublin.
I tried to find a list of winners and runner-up on the internet, but couldn't find anything, which seems surprising considering the former prestige of this tournament. It would interest me much to see how the great players of this time did at the second best tournament, who made a double, etc.
I was only able to find *some* results, such as Laurie Doherty winning in 1902, but that's all...

Thank you for your help!
Jonathan


EDIT: I found the answer to my own question, thanks to a new Google search that worked this time:
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=90372&page=22
The whole website is incredible! Many many many stats and tournament results about women's tennis. There are the results for men too at the Irish though...

urban
05-13-2007, 08:03 AM
The Irish champs. is indeed rivalling Wim for oldest major tournament. The 1879 champ St. Leger Goold, an Irishman, was a bad finger, who killed a rich widow. The Encyclopedia of tennis by Max Robertson, 1974, p. 267, has a complete winners list. Winners include Dinny Pails 1946, Sturgess 1948, Budge Patty 1956, Neale Fraser, whose title was divided with Cooper in 57, Ralston 1960, Laver 1962, Roche 1965 and 70, Okker 1968, Drysdale 1971, Hewitt 69 and 72.

alwaysatnet
05-14-2007, 07:03 PM
I saw Ken Flach, of Flach/Seguso fame, playing in Dublin at the Irish Open in 1989. The tourament was a well kept secret.

Ted Ghost Shackley
05-16-2007, 02:22 AM
In the old days (actually very recent days), the perceptions of the Irish Protestant/Catholic divide included sports. Not many Irish thought about playing tennis.

Now that there is a strong Irish middle class and Ireland has the opportunities of places like Spain and Sweden, is the Irish Tennis Federation building indoor courts (weather is a big problem) and developing players? Anyone know anything about Irish tennis?

Q&M son
05-27-2008, 03:33 PM
EDIT: I found the answer to my own question, thanks to a new Google search that worked this time:
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=90372&page=22
The whole website is incredible! Many many many stats and tournament results about women's tennis. There are the results for men too at the Irish though...

Thank you for this link!

Greetings.

Lucio.

Tennis old man
05-28-2008, 11:51 AM
Thank you for this link!

Greetings.

Lucio.

Thanks for bump. I did not know this site.

Lotto
05-28-2008, 12:27 PM
Irish tennis is a disaster to be honest. The main problem with all professional sporting areas is the drink and food.
It's become a major problem that alot of Irish teens my age (15) as young as 12 are going out and binge drinking. Holidays whatever, they go out in fields and binge drink, now I've never had a glass or can of alcohol in my life but one of my friends has woken up in a field in the middle of nowhere before. Also, you see these guys, tremendous soccer players and they are eating crisps, chips, burgers, chocolate, all ***** in school and they, with a bit of hard work could be top athletes but they don't think they can.
As far as tennis goes, Soccer, GAA, Rugby and Hurling take over tennis. Every teen and child is playing them sports rather than tennis.
Also, the coaches are rubbish. Now, I have two coaches and they are amazing, one has coached the Indian national squad and also coached the girl who's now No.22 in the world when she was a junior. The other is 21 and he went to Switzerland when he was younger. Absolutely amazing player but not at the fitness or mental level for the pros, top Irish player.
The thing is lack of interest. The tennis courts are basically empty, the weather doesn't help, very little funding from the sports department for tennis.
Only the big, posh, D4 tennis clubs in Ireland have indoor courts.
Also, nearly every single club uses artificial grass which is not used in any high level ATP event although it is used in the Irish Championships, now known as the Irish Open.
We do have a few good juniors out there playing on the Junior tour but not regularly. Our top pro player is Louk Sorenson and he is ranked in the 280's in the world.
Now, the Tennis Ireland headquarters in Dublin City University are building artificial indoor clay courts and indoor hard courts but only the juniors on the national squad get to train there.

I have huge ambitions about being a pro. My problem is my fitness. I have an eating mental block and have only eaten chips(fries), white bread and Corn flakes all of my life, the sugar in the bread when it's broken down as made me fat and also I have no energy or fuel on the court which is surprising seen as how I am a pretty decent mover and win a lot of matches. I'm obviously not a great mover but I am a lot quicker than I look. I'm working on that this year though and hopefully that will work out. Starting with the eating and then stamina, speed and strength. Because of my slow speed my footwork is pathetic and therefore I can't pull out the shots but when I'm there I can hit nearly any shot because my technique is right up there. The mental game needs a bit of tweaking but everything is going ok.

That's basically how Irish tennis is right now. It's making progress but the national games of GAA and Hurling take over and there isn't enough funding.

Hope that clears things up.

Jono.


Edit: This may help: http://www.historyofirishtennis.ie/did%20you%20know.htm

jaggy
05-28-2008, 12:37 PM
I remember Mike Doyle who went on to coach Wilander played for Ireland in DC (he was American) and said he had a great time, claimed they paid him in Guiness!

BTURNER
05-29-2008, 09:39 AM
Incredible link! A lush 20 acre field of data and records!

Q&M son
10-07-2009, 12:13 PM
liesl or elegos7 do you have the list of wiiner of this event, in men singles?

Thanks.

Lucio.

Idzznew
10-07-2009, 10:12 PM
Irish championships 1879


Ireland
00-00-0000 - 08-06-1879
Type: Amateur
Men's singles
Surface: Unknown
Place/court: Dublin
Main Irish championships

Players list

Barry, C.D. (IRL)
Cairnes, J. (IRL)
St. Leger Gould, Vere Thomas (GBR)


ResultsSemifinals

St. Leger Gould, Vere Thomas d. Cairnes, J. (6-3 6-4)

Final

St. Leger Gould, Vere Thomas d. Barry, C.D. (8-6 8-6)


Irish championships 1880


Ireland
30-05-1880 - 00-00-0000
Type: Amateur
Men's singles
Surface: Unknown
Place/court: Dublin
Main Irish championships





Players list

Aungier, Peter (GBR)
Browne, Ernest de Sylly Hamy (IRL)
Lawford, Herbert F. (GBR)
McNamara, M.G. (GBR)
Mulholland, A.J. (GBR)
Renshaw, Ernest (GBR)
Renshaw, William Charles (GBR)
Richardson, Richard T. (GBR)
St. Leger Gould, Vere Thomas (GBR)





ResultsRound 1

Renshaw, William Charles d. Richardson, Richard T. (5-6 5-6 6-3 6-4 6-3)
Renshaw, Ernest d. Aungier, Peter (6-0 6-5 2-6 6-4)

Round 2

Renshaw, William Charles d. Lawford, Herbert F. (6-5 3-6 6-3 6-3 )
Mulholland, A.J. d. Renshaw, Ernest (6-2 6-5 6-0)

Quarterfinals

Browne, Ernest de Sylly Hamy d. Mulholland, A.J. (6-2 6-1 6-4)

Semifinals

Renshaw, William Charles d. McNamara, M.G. (6-0 6-1 6-2)

Final

Renshaw, William Charles d. Browne, Ernest de Sylly Hamy (6-3 6-4 6-3)

Challenge Round

Renshaw, William Charles d. St. Leger Gould, Vere Thomas (6-1 6-4 6-3)

lots more on www.tennisarchives.com

Q&M son
10-08-2009, 03:32 AM
Irish championships 1879


Ireland
00-00-0000 - 08-06-1879
Type: Amateur
Men's singles
Surface: Unknown
Place/court: Dublin
Main Irish championships

Players list

Barry, C.D. (IRL)
Cairnes, J. (IRL)
St. Leger Gould, Vere Thomas (GBR)


ResultsSemifinals

St. Leger Gould, Vere Thomas d. Cairnes, J. (6-3 6-4)

Final

St. Leger Gould, Vere Thomas d. Barry, C.D. (8-6 8-6)


Irish championships 1880


Ireland
30-05-1880 - 00-00-0000
Type: Amateur
Men's singles
Surface: Unknown
Place/court: Dublin
Main Irish championships





Players list

Aungier, Peter (GBR)
Browne, Ernest de Sylly Hamy (IRL)
Lawford, Herbert F. (GBR)
McNamara, M.G. (GBR)
Mulholland, A.J. (GBR)
Renshaw, Ernest (GBR)
Renshaw, William Charles (GBR)
Richardson, Richard T. (GBR)
St. Leger Gould, Vere Thomas (GBR)





ResultsRound 1

Renshaw, William Charles d. Richardson, Richard T. (5-6 5-6 6-3 6-4 6-3)
Renshaw, Ernest d. Aungier, Peter (6-0 6-5 2-6 6-4)

Round 2

Renshaw, William Charles d. Lawford, Herbert F. (6-5 3-6 6-3 6-3 )
Mulholland, A.J. d. Renshaw, Ernest (6-2 6-5 6-0)

Quarterfinals

Browne, Ernest de Sylly Hamy d. Mulholland, A.J. (6-2 6-1 6-4)

Semifinals

Renshaw, William Charles d. McNamara, M.G. (6-0 6-1 6-2)

Final

Renshaw, William Charles d. Browne, Ernest de Sylly Hamy (6-3 6-4 6-3)

Challenge Round

Renshaw, William Charles d. St. Leger Gould, Vere Thomas (6-1 6-4 6-3)

lots more on www.tennisarchives.com

Thanks Idzznew

Q&M son
10-08-2009, 01:36 PM
liesl or elegos7 do you have the list of wiiner of this event, in men singles?

Thanks.

Lucio.

In here http://tennis.forumpro.nl

Thanks Idzznew!!!

newmark401
10-08-2009, 01:46 PM
Does the "tennis.forumpro.nl" website have any results from women's events?

Q&M son
10-08-2009, 01:56 PM
Does the "tennis.forumpro.nl" website have any results from women's events?

No Mark, but the woman forum where you work with elegos and others (I can't mention it cause TT rules) had most results of any around.

newmark401
10-08-2009, 02:05 PM
Here's the complete draw for the first ever men's singles event at the Irish Championships, played in Fitzwilliam Square, Dublin, in 1879:

First round
C. Barry d. C.A. Martin 7-5, 6-0
F.J. Joyce d. A. Graves 6-2, 6-2
H.E. Tombe d. R. Kellie [score?]
J.J. Sherrard d. Peter Aungier 6-3, 4-6, 6-2
Vere "St. Leger" Goold d. E. Noble 6-1, 6-1
L. M'Donnell d. George Hewson 6-2, 6-3
J.J. Cairnes d. H.J. Daly 6-3, 6-2

Second round
C. Barry d. F.J. Joyce 6-0, 6-1
H.E. Tombe d. J.J. Sherrard 4-6, 6-1, 6-4
Vere "St. Leger" Goold d. L. M'Donnell 6-1, 6-1
J.J. Cairnes, a bye [Hodgson absent]

Semi-finals
C. Barry d. H.E. Tombe 6-4, 6-1
Vere "St. Leger" Goold d. J.J. Cairnes 6-3, 6-4

Final
Vere "St. Leger" Goold d. C. Barry 8-6, 8-6


All of these matches were, it seems, played on the same day, probably Friday, 6 June 1879.

newmark401
10-08-2009, 02:38 PM
Just a final note on the men's singles draw for the first Irish Championships. All of the participants were Irish. Vere "St. Leger" Goold was definitely lrish (born in County Waterford on 2 October 1853). I know Ireland was still under British rule at the time, so the Irish players could be considered both Irish and British. But at the first Irish Championships the participants in all four events - men's singles, men's doubles, women's singles and mixed doubles (no women's doubles was held that year) - were all Irish-born.

Idzznew
10-08-2009, 10:29 PM
Hi Mark,

The info on the first Irish championships is absolutely great, Many thanks!
Can i ask for the source you used for it? Do you have anymore complete draws? Id love to add them on my site if its ok with you

Alex
www.tennisarchives.com

newmark401
10-09-2009, 04:44 AM
Hi, Alex,

I'm afraid I only have the draws for the first ever Irish Championships. The "Hodgson" who was absent and couldn't play in the quarter-final, was H. Hodgson. Unfortunately they rarely gave the first names of the players in those days.

For the first one hundred years or so of the tournament the surface was grass. The venue from 1879 to 1902 was Fitzwilliam Square, Dublin. From 1902 to 1966 the tournament was held at the Fitzwilliam Lawn Tennis Club, Wilton Place, Dublin.

Mark

newmark401
10-10-2009, 11:47 AM
The source for the men's singles draw at the first Irish Championships is Volume 2 of "The History of Irish Tennis" by Tom Higgins, published by the Sligo Tennis Club in 2006

Idzznew
10-11-2009, 01:41 AM
Thanks very much Mark!