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View Full Version : Hitting flat and hard is the best tactic against Nadal.


djones
05-15-2007, 02:25 AM
If you look at players who Nadal has most difficulties with beating, than it seems quite clear the hitting flat and hard is really the best way to "try" to beat Nadal.

Of course on clay it's not going to be easy, but Matthieu got Nadal nearly to a fifth set last year at Roland Garros.
Davydenko pushed him till three sets last week.
And I do actually believe, that if Safin has a "on"-day, that he could actually be a danger to Nadal.
That is if he doesn't loose in the previous rounds at Hamburg.

He would probably have some troubles with a young Agassi on clay as well.

pow
05-15-2007, 02:27 AM
If you look at players who Nadal has most difficulties with beating, than it seems qutie clear the hitting flat and hard is really the best way to "try" to beat Nadal.

Of course on clay it's not going to be easy, but Matthieu got Nadal nearly to a fifth set last year at Roland Garros.
Davydenko pushed him till three sets last week.
And I do actually believe, that if Safin has a "on"-day, that he could actually be a danger to Nadal.
That is if he doesn't loose in the previous rounds at Hamburg.

He would probably have some troubles with a young Agassi on clay as well.
I'm interested in seeing a Safin vs. Nadal match, funny you should mention it, I looked up a head to head for the two of them today and they haven't met in a match before.

goforgold99
05-15-2007, 03:23 AM
Flat and hard is no good on clay. Fed played flat&hard against Volandri, this just doesn't work.

He played more topsping and higher against Almagro and worked well.

You can beat Nadal by playing just like that and having good lenght and precision

thu_huong
05-15-2007, 03:52 AM
I'm interested in seeing a Safin vs. Nadal match, funny you should mention it, I looked up a head to head for the two of them today and they haven't met in a match before.

please forgive me but I think that now safin has no chance to beat Rafa ( or at least now):-(

jmverdugo
05-15-2007, 04:00 AM
I dont think hitting flat and hard would be enough, Davydenko doesnt hit that way, I think is more about taking the ball early and hitting good angles with extremly good consistency, anything to return the ball as fast as possible and the more near to the line the better.

tennis_hand
05-15-2007, 04:23 AM
flat and hard ball's power is diminished on clay, so it is not as effective as on grass or hard.

tintin
05-15-2007, 04:27 AM
I can assure you that Blake's flat and hard hitting would get his arse two 0-0 against Nadal on clay and I would pay big money to see that.
One plays well on clay and the other one stinks on it,one can adjust his game to it and challenge other players(Davydenko);Blake won't be able too.

Alexandros
05-15-2007, 04:51 AM
Hitting flat and hard is good against Nadal for two reasons: it robs him of time and the lower ball bounce on minimally spun balls gives his extreme grip problems. This works less on clay where the ball slows down AND tends to sit up.

I think the trick to taking Nadal's time away (as some other posters have mentioned) is to take the ball early and hit angles. Not hard and fast, but consistently and keep Nadal moving. Nadal counterpunches and hits on the run so well, especially off the backhand, that hitting hard balls that arent completely out of his reach is a risk to yourself. So consistent, early ball striking to steal his time and without much pace so he has to generate his own (difficult to do when pressured and on the move) would be an effective game plan. Hewitt pushed Nadal in the French last year using such a tactic, with some clutch volleys to keep him off balance. Someone like Murray could execute such a tactic to perfection.

chris1992
05-15-2007, 04:57 AM
The only tactic, to possibly beat nadal on clay is to bring him to the net a.s.a.p. and hope you can either pass him or he makes unforced errors.

Bjorn99
05-15-2007, 05:30 AM
LOL. The only way you are going to beat Nadal NOW, is to be as big and fast as him. And hmmmm, I don't see anyone that matches that description. ANYONE. Some are as big, but not as fast. And I don't see anyone as fast, at any size.

He is starting to pull away from the field. And Brad Gilbert, has seen it. Well so have I. Federer, mentally pulled some interesting stunts to become what he was. It has worn off, and he will have to go to Africa and see the best witch doctor available to believe he has a chance against Nadal on clay.

127mph
05-15-2007, 11:41 AM
to beat nadal you gotta blast shots down the middle of the court. keep him back and make him create angles

Nadal_Freak
05-15-2007, 11:48 AM
To beat Nadal on clay you gotta be superman. lol Dude is a fricken beast on clay. Davydenko and Federer have been the closest but they have different games. If Nadal is hitting a lot of short balls you have to attack. If not than you will lose.

Heavy Metal Tennis Star
05-15-2007, 11:52 AM
nope, you cna hit the ball as flat as a cast iron and ud still lose, you can play like a powerhouse in grass and still lose to roger.

VamosRafa
05-15-2007, 12:04 PM
I think the key to beating Nadal on clay is to catch him on a day he isn't playing his best (such as Davydenko did) and then play your best (as Davydenko did), and then hope Nadal doesn't outlast you physically (which is what happened against Davydenko).

As for Blake, he doesn't stand a chance against Nadal on clay. James can't beat even mediocre players on the stuff.

CyBorg
05-15-2007, 12:23 PM
Only on fast courts - quick to medium speed hardcourts and fast clay (like Rome).

I don't think hitting flat will do much damage to Nadal in Hamburg nor at the French Open. Beating him there would require a superb baseline effort with many more factors in tact than what is outlined in this thread.

zampano
05-15-2007, 12:24 PM
the best tactic against nadal on clay would be to hit like nadal:)

edberg505
05-15-2007, 12:46 PM
I think the key to beating Nadal on clay is to catch him on a day he isn't playing his best (such as Davydenko did) and then play your best (as Davydenko did), and then hope Nadal doesn't outlast you physically (which is what happened against Davydenko).

As for Blake, he doesn't stand a chance against Nadal on clay. James can't beat even mediocre players on the stuff.

He beat Almagro last year at the French. ;)

edberg505
05-15-2007, 12:49 PM
I can assure you that Blake's flat and hard hitting would get his arse two 0-0 against Nadal on clay and I would pay big money to see that.
One plays well on clay and the other one stinks on it,one can adjust his game to it and challenge other players(Davydenko);Blake won't be able too.

A double bagel? Common now. Nadal has never bageled James in his life, not even when James was making his comeback break out year. Now, Nadal may be a juggernaut on clay but 6-0, 6-0?

zhan
05-15-2007, 12:58 PM
A double bagel? Common now. Nadal has never bageled James in his life, not even when James was making his comeback break out year. Now, Nadal may be a juggernaut on clay but 6-0, 6-0?

6-2 6-2 is more realistic

fastdunn
05-15-2007, 01:24 PM
If you look at players who Nadal has most difficulties with beating, than it seems quite clear the hitting flat and hard is really the best way to "try" to beat Nadal.

Of course on clay it's not going to be easy, but Matthieu got Nadal nearly to a fifth set last year at Roland Garros.
Davydenko pushed him till three sets last week.
And I do actually believe, that if Safin has a "on"-day, that he could actually be a danger to Nadal.
That is if he doesn't loose in the previous rounds at Hamburg.

He would probably have some troubles with a young Agassi on clay as well.

If you can control flat and hard balls perfectly over long term,
you will be GOAT, so to speak.

The best control I have ever witness with flat ball was Jimmy Connors.
He hit flat balls consistantly over many years.
But he didn't exactly hit it that "hard".

pow
05-15-2007, 01:43 PM
To beat Nadal on clay, you must lob the ball the whole day... til he can take no more.

fastdunn
05-15-2007, 01:50 PM
question is... can you take it ?

JoeU
05-15-2007, 01:50 PM
What impressed me the most of how Davydenko played Nadal is that he was hitting the ball so early, standing way inside of the court. Compare that to how Federer was hitting during the MC finals, standing way behind the baseline. I wonder if Federer can handle the high bouncing topspin balls like Davydenko did.

illkhiboy
05-15-2007, 03:12 PM
I think the key to beating Nadal on clay is to catch him on a day he isn't playing his best (such as Davydenko did) and then play your best (as Davydenko did), and then hope Nadal doesn't outlast you physically (which is what happened against Davydenko).

As for Blake, he doesn't stand a chance against Nadal on clay. James can't beat even mediocre players on the stuff.

Blake beat Almagro at the French last year, who many considered a dark horse to win the tournament.

ferocious4hand
05-15-2007, 03:54 PM
The only to beat Nadal on clay is to pull a Tonya Harding on him.

J-man
05-15-2007, 04:09 PM
Blake beat Almagro at the French last year, who many considered a dark horse to win the tournament.Not only that but he also beat Carlos Moya last year on clay before the French.

VamosRafa
05-15-2007, 06:32 PM
Blake beat Almagro at the French last year, who many considered a dark horse to win the tournament.

Beating Almagro is a far cry from beating an experienced claycourt player. James has a lot more experience than Almagro and certainly didn't have an easy time beating him. He has had an occasional good win on clay, but nothing is going to convince me he can go toe-to-toe with Nadal on clay. He's just not comfortable on that surface.

TENNIS_99
05-15-2007, 06:46 PM
If you look at players who Nadal has most difficulties with beating, than it seems quite clear the hitting flat and hard is really the best way to "try" to beat Nadal.

Of course on clay it's not going to be easy, but Matthieu got Nadal nearly to a fifth set last year at Roland Garros.
Davydenko pushed him till three sets last week.
And I do actually believe, that if Safin has a "on"-day, that he could actually be a danger to Nadal.
That is if he doesn't loose in the previous rounds at Hamburg.

He would probably have some troubles with a young Agassi on clay as well.

Sorry but I partially disagree. Nadal's monster top spins neutralize hard strokes and put himself in the same positions everytime while the opponent has to deal with the return from a mighty strokes.

Davydenko did a very good jobs hitting sharp angles and keep up with Nadal. This is what I think a better strategy against Nadal. Yes, he ran down every ball and yes sharp angles are more riskier. But what can you do playing someone like a machine sharp? Davydenko had a good day playing like that and held the match close and gave him a chance to win. If Nadal had a slow day or Davydenko had a even better day, the result could be different.

Andres
05-15-2007, 06:57 PM
Blake beat Almagro at the French last year, who many considered a dark horse to win the tournament.
Almagro never passed the 2nd round of the French in his life.
He is probably the most overrated claycourter is history. He was all hyped up in that French Open, and I don't really know WHY!

Nadal_Freak
05-15-2007, 07:17 PM
The only to beat Nadal on clay is to pull a Tonya Harding on him.
Or a Monica Seles. Nadal is to Federer what Seles was to Graf before the stabbing.

Tsunami
05-15-2007, 10:59 PM
Or a Monica Seles. Nadal is to Federer what Seles was to Graf before the stabbing.

I don't think so... Seles was dominating everybody on ALL surfaces, except maybe grass, which in my opinion is not Nadal's case

helloworld
05-15-2007, 11:20 PM
I don't think so... Seles was dominating everybody on ALL surfaces, except maybe grass, which in my opinion is not Nadal's case

He's not comparing on how Nadal dominates the tour dumb ***. He's comparing only Nadal to Federer which Federer always tend to lose to Nadal just like Graf lost to Seles.

Tsunami
05-17-2007, 01:59 AM
He's not comparing on how Nadal dominates the tour dumb ***. He's comparing only Nadal to Federer which Federer always tend to lose to Nadal just like Graf lost to Seles.

Fair enough, but do you think the insult is really necessary ????

Jonnyf
05-17-2007, 04:17 AM
If you look at players who Nadal has most difficulties with beating, than it seems quite clear the hitting flat and hard is really the best way to "try" to beat Nadal.

Of course on clay it's not going to be easy, but Matthieu got Nadal nearly to a fifth set last year at Roland Garros.
Davydenko pushed him till three sets last week.
And I do actually believe, that if Safin has a "on"-day, that he could actually be a danger to Nadal.
That is if he doesn't loose in the previous rounds at Hamburg.

He would probably have some troubles with a young Agassi on clay as well.



I'd say P-HM is far from being a flat hitter ok his bh's a bit flat particularly when its high (unusual finish as you may know on high balls/ high return of serve) but apart from that he hits with ALOT of top with his western fh grip