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View Full Version : Tell me if i'm right about the kick serve--


drgnpride
05-16-2007, 07:32 PM
i think i finally have it.

1. requires arched back, knee bend, and toss to left
2. on back swing racket should be vertical almost touching ground
3. striking ball requires 'jumping' out of the knee bend and wrist snap brushing up on ball in a fast but loose motion at same time

i think i had this working pretty good practicing the other day but have yet to do it in a match. not sure about # 2, is this correct? oh, also i was using backhand as opposed to continental grip.

andymac1
05-16-2007, 07:44 PM
Everything is fine, but the backhand grip (assuming you meant one handed) is used more for the twist serve and you also need to brush more up and to the right instead of just up. Topspin is done more with a continental grip than with a backhand grip.

predrag
05-17-2007, 06:27 AM
i think i finally have it.

1. requires arched back, knee bend, and toss to left
2. on back swing racket should be vertical almost touching ground
3. striking ball requires 'jumping' out of the knee bend and wrist snap brushing up on ball in a fast but loose motion at same time

i think i had this working pretty good practicing the other day but have yet to do it in a match. not sure about # 2, is this correct? oh, also i was using backhand as opposed to continental grip.

I am affraid you are going to hurt your back.

1. shoulder turn, stay sideways as long as possible, left shoulder does cartwheel over the left (assumin gyou are righty), toss should be above the left shoulder (again assuming you are righthanded)
2. Vertical yes, touching the ground no
3. Jumping will help, or at least won't hurt. Dont snap wrist on purpose, ever.

Grip should be continental.

Regards, Predrag

LuckyR
05-17-2007, 11:53 AM
I wouldn't get too dogmatic about the grips. Many use Continental, many use Eastern BH grip. Myself, I use the EBH on first serves where wicked spin is a potential weapon, vs second serves where I want a larger margin for error.

mucat
05-17-2007, 12:04 PM
Eastern BH gip is fine, it is use for spin serves (slice too).

Toss can be into the court but still to the left (behind) of you.

Lifting (jumping) should not be intentional, it should be a result of extending, and it is unnecessary to generate topspin, shouldn't over do it.

No wrist snap like other said.

The topspin serve is about toss, contact point and swing path, you should be able to hit this serve knee down on the court.

Ghosting
05-17-2007, 12:47 PM
If you are a righty, the ball should bounce high to the right. If you don't see it, there must be some problems. These days I'm also working on my twist serve and I posted a new thread about it. It's really a tough serve so be patient. :)

shindemac
05-17-2007, 01:38 PM
Yea, pretty much. I'm still young and I can't believe my back aches when I do this. It can be tough to do all those things at once, and perfectly everytime even if you know what to do. Having a perfect ball toss is a necessity otherwise you could be hitting different spins everytime and lose consistency. If you don't have a coach, record yourself to check if you are doing everything correctly. Even if you think you are, you need to record yourself and check.

Ghosting
05-17-2007, 01:45 PM
Yea, pretty much. I'm still young and I can't believe my back aches when I do this. It can be tough to do all those things at once, and perfectly everytime even if you know what to do. Having a perfect ball toss is a necessity otherwise you could be hitting different spins everytime and lose consistency. If you don't have a coach, record yourself to check if you are doing everything correctly. Even if you think you are, you need to record yourself and check.


From my point of view these steps are crucial:

1. eastern backhand grip, hold racket with the ring finger at the bottom while pinky is off, relaxed arm

2. front foot is parallel to the baseline and back foot is turned a bit more (heel faces baseline more)

3. start with weight on back foot, both arms go down first

4. tossing arm (parallel to the baseline) lifts the ball from almost extended arm to the left for righties, toss the ball higher and let it goes down longer

5. bend knees extremely with back foot keeps balance

6. racket goes down behind back while arching body goes up, tip of the racket should be at the same level as your buttocks, tossing arm goes down

7. shoulders and hitting elbow up, get underneath the ball, get the Swiss Army Knife position

8. aggressive racket motion up like hammering the nail with the frame of racket, body is still sideways to the baseline

9. extended hitting arm at contact should be behind your head, pronation should occur naturally, body still sideways

10. pronation ends and you show your watch on your hand to your opponent

11. ball twists first a bit up, then goes to the left and suddenly drops very quickly down into the service box, ball bounces unbelievably high and to the right

this url http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/develop_kicker.php
is great but Heuberger's contortion is almost impossible

Omisoshiru
05-17-2007, 05:56 PM
Ooh this has helped me a lot too, i have been trying to get my kick serve down, but like someone said above, i think you'd hurt ur back if u arched too much

Slazenger
05-17-2007, 11:35 PM
The most important aspect of a kick serve is how the strings contact the ball.
Racquet path is from 7 to 1 on the ball.

You don't have to have an arched back, knee bend to be able to hit a kick serve.
When you can hit a kicker with both your feet on the ground throughout the service motion, then you own the shot.

Mikael
05-18-2007, 01:26 PM
i think i finally have it.

1. requires arched back, knee bend, and toss to left
2. on back swing racket should be vertical almost touching ground
3. striking ball requires 'jumping' out of the knee bend and wrist snap brushing up on ball in a fast but loose motion at same time

i think i had this working pretty good practicing the other day but have yet to do it in a match. not sure about # 2, is this correct? oh, also i was using backhand as opposed to continental grip.


You "think" you have it?? I guarantee that if you're really hitting kick serves, you *know* you're hitting kick serves!! If you say you "think" you're hitting kick serves, that tells me that you're not hitting kick serves, 99% sure. I find that mastering the kick serve requires a lot of "feel". It's not easy to develop the required arm motion (and by the way, legs are irrelevant in hitting the kick serve, they may help in adding some power, but the actual spin you impart on the ball is a function of what your hitting arm does, and to a lesser extent, of how your body is positioned).

I recommend a simple drill: walk to the back fence and serve from there, trying to make your serves land in the service boxes. The drill will literally force your body to find the required arm motion to impart topspin on the ball. At first you'll be serving everything into the net and it may get frustrating, but eventually your arm will "learn" to hit up on the ball. You can make it extra challenging by kneeling down, thus forcing you to hit up even more (and this is proof that leg action isn't necessary for hitting a kick serve!).

Trust me when you finally "get the kick serve" you won't need to ask us whether you "have it" or not, you'll know it yourself. And your opponents will notice the change, too...

sureshs
05-18-2007, 01:37 PM
I have been trying to learn the kick myself, and I have to say I agree with the poster who said Eastern grip favors a twist serve rather than the top spin serve, which favors the continental.

solidtennis
05-19-2007, 02:57 PM
When you can hit a kicker with both your feet on the ground throughout the service motion, then you own the shot.
Why would you want to hit a kick serve with both feet on the ground?
you want to hit the ball with as much upward force as you can to create the maximum possible revolutions on the ball.

Vision84
05-19-2007, 03:05 PM
Why would you want to hit a kick serve with both feet on the ground?
you want to hit the ball with as much upward force as you can to create the maximum possible revolutions on the ball.

Perhaps he is saying to master this first before you start using your legs. At least that is what I did and it worked for me.

drgnpride
05-19-2007, 07:55 PM
You "think" you have it?? I guarantee that if you're really hitting kick serves, you *know* you're hitting kick serves!! If you say you "think" you're hitting kick serves, that tells me that you're not hitting kick serves, 99% sure. I find that mastering the kick serve requires a lot of "feel". It's not easy to develop the required arm motion (and by the way, legs are irrelevant in hitting the kick serve, they may help in adding some power, but the actual spin you impart on the ball is a function of what your hitting arm does, and to a lesser extent, of how your body is positioned).

I recommend a simple drill: walk to the back fence and serve from there, trying to make your serves land in the service boxes. The drill will literally force your body to find the required arm motion to impart topspin on the ball. At first you'll be serving everything into the net and it may get frustrating, but eventually your arm will "learn" to hit up on the ball. You can make it extra challenging by kneeling down, thus forcing you to hit up even more (and this is proof that leg action isn't necessary for hitting a kick serve!).

Trust me when you finally "get the kick serve" you won't need to ask us whether you "have it" or not, you'll know it yourself. And your opponents will notice the change, too...



i don't think that is necessarily true. i think kick serve is much more recognized by the receiver of the serve as opposed to the server. reason i wanted to develop the kick/twist serve is after i faced this guy who had an incredible kick/twist. i said to him he had best kick that i've seen and he said 'yeah, people always tell me that but i don't see it myself'.. i think the spin from a kick is much more apparent to the receiver than the server

[K]aotic
05-19-2007, 08:19 PM
i would say u brush from 8 o'clock to 2 o'clock... cuz if u brush up its just a topspin serve. kickers should have a twist to it

mucat
05-19-2007, 10:25 PM
Why would you want to hit a kick serve with both feet on the ground?
you want to hit the ball with as much upward force as you can to create the maximum possible revolutions on the ball.

Most topspin in any kind of topspin serve does not generate from leg drive. It is from the swing path hence the shoulder turn. A player should be able to hit any kind of topspin serve with both feet on the ground.

How to generate topspin in groundstrokes? Low to high swing path. It is the same for topspin serve.


I have been trying to learn the kick myself, and I have to say I agree with the poster who said Eastern grip favors a twist serve rather than the top spin serve, which favors the continental.

EBH allow easier generation of any kind of spin in serves, pure slice serve, topspin-slice, any kind of topspin serve (topspin, kick, twist). Not just twist serve. It has something to do with the angle of the racket face during contact.

Drona
05-20-2007, 03:57 AM
Why would you want to hit a kick serve with both feet on the ground?
you want to hit the ball with as much upward force as you can to create the maximum possible revolutions on the ball.

Generating a lot of racquet speed is only helpful if you have the correct swingpath. One can even hit the kickserve from a kneeling position.

mrcalon
05-21-2007, 04:06 PM
To get kickers, I think of doing a windshield wipe motion just like with a topspin forehand. Except it goes up, and right to left.

Also I catch the ball a bit lower with the racquet, such that it's pointing towards the left fence on contact. (wether i'm really doing that is hard to tell, but that's the cue I give myself..)


To learn the kick, I just practiced getting the racquet motion with my arm. Once I figured out how to make the ball do the desired spin, I included all the other stuff (hip stretch, legs etc) to give it more juice.

solidtennis
05-21-2007, 11:56 PM
Most topspin in any kind of topspin serve does not generate from leg drive. It is from the swing path hence the shoulder turn. A player should be able to hit any kind of topspin serve with both feet on the ground.
Dude Iam not sure what level of tennis you play but in the open tournaments I play in I can guantee you all the great kick serves are hit with the server jumping up into the serve.
ever watched roger fed kick serve see how high his feet are, beleve me dude it helps.

Ghosting
05-22-2007, 04:37 AM
Please can you write here a link about pronation at hi-techtennis lesson 5?

mucat
05-22-2007, 09:38 PM
Dude Iam not sure what level of tennis you play but in the open tournaments I play in I can guantee you all the great kick serves are hit with the server jumping up into the serve.
ever watched roger fed kick serve see how high his feet are, beleve me dude it helps.

Dude, topspin is about racket head speed, and no one can jump faster than his/her shoulder/arm can swing, dude.

And dude, great server don't jump, they extend their whole body upward and forward, it is just the result of the momentum carry the body into the air, dude.