PDA

View Full Version : Kicker serve


Ghosting
05-17-2007, 11:14 AM
Hi, I'm a new member. I'm working hard on my kick serve. I don't know if I ever get a huge one but I will try everything. I have no problems with my back and I'm pretty flexible. This serve is difficult, no question about it. If you can give me some new tips or good drills, I will be very happy.:)


From my point of view these steps are crucial:

1. eastern backhand grip, hold racket with the ring finger at the bottom while pinky is off, relaxed arm

2. front foot is parallel to the baseline and back foot is turned a bit more (heel faces baseline more)

3. start with weight on back foot, both arms go down first

4. tossing arm (parallel to the baseline) lifts the ball from almost extended arm over left shoulder to the left for righties, toss the ball higher and let it goes down longer

5. bend knees extremely with back foot keeps balance

6. racket goes down behind back while arching body goes up, tip of the racket should be at the same level as your buttocks, tossing arm goes down

7. shoulders and hitting elbow up, get underneath the ball, get the Swiss Army Knife position

8. aggressive racket motion up like hammering the nail with the frame of racket, body is still sideways to the baseline

9. extended hitting arm at contact should be behind your head, pronation should occur naturally, body still sideways

10. pronation ends and you show your watch on your hand to your opponent

11. ball twists first a bit up, then goes to the left and suddenly drops very quickly down into the service box, ball bounces unbelievably high and to the right

this url http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/develop_kicker.php
is great but Heuberger's contortion is almost impossible

Solat
05-17-2007, 11:26 PM
a good drill is to serve from extreme left of the court (ie L doubles alley) and try to land it in the R doubles alley over the net. Will really get the R - L racquet motion and keeps the shoulders from rotating

Ghosting
05-18-2007, 12:09 AM
a good drill is to serve from extreme left of the court (ie L doubles alley) and try to land it in the R doubles alley over the net. Will really get the R - L racquet motion and keeps the shoulders from rotating


Thanks a lot, It should be a really good drill. I think the big problem is probably the side spin. If you don't contact at right spot with unique body stance while brushing up, pronation will not occur naturally. Pronation at contact is a big problem for me and I think I'm not alone. All happen so quickly (4 milliseconds). You have to brush up with almost frame of your racket, get extended arm and when you catch the ball while brushing up pronate to the right. Really not easy. If you try to serve a kick without a ball, you can see that with EB grip pronation occurs naturally only with extended arm and shoulders keeping sideways. To get this motion at contact with a ball is what makes this serve so difficult.

http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/kicker_example.php
(you can see how Federer catch the ball and fling it out, it's incredible)

Drona
05-18-2007, 03:29 AM
Solat has a good suggestion; one more I add is to set your stance such that your navel points to the back fence; or in different words so that your shoulders are parallel to the net. This will force you to hit the inside of the ball and pronate. Once you can do that then you can make your stance less rigid.

tazzellis
05-18-2007, 04:50 AM
another way that my coach taught me when i was learning to kick serve was to imagine the ball as a clock and to hit from 7 o'clock to 1o'clock you'll be surprised at the shape the ball has. also try to hit the ball just as it come from the peak of the throw which gets you to accelerate which also helps with the shape of the kick serve.

Ghosting
05-19-2007, 01:27 PM
Many people say that for topspin serve is best the continental grip and for twist serve is ideal the eastern backhand. Is it possible to hit a huge kick serve with really high bounce to the side and is it possible to hit only side spin without a topspin?

Vision84
05-19-2007, 02:07 PM
Only sidespin would be a slice. If you are thinking about slicing it the other way then I doubt this is possible due to the restrictions of arm movement.

saqdeez
05-19-2007, 02:13 PM
Every serve i hit i only hit with continental. Learn everything continental and you will be better in the long run.

neverstopplaying
05-19-2007, 05:18 PM
I agree ^^^^. I also use only the continental grip for kick serves. I used to use a EB for kick serves but I prefer one grip for all now and find that it's easier to get more juice behind the ball.

When learning the serve, first step is to make sure your throw is much more to the left (for a right hander) prob 11 instead of 1 o'clock.

Then I practised the racquet motion to brush up on back of the ball.

Then I tired to put at least as much energy into this serve as my first serve.

BTW I probably make as many points on 2nd serve as 1st serve. Good Luck!

Ghosting
05-20-2007, 09:57 AM
So today i was practising a kick serve about an hour from the ad side. It was pretty good as I hit some big topspin serves. I was struggling to get some side spin though. The most interesting thing was that I hit solid side spin when I served from the ad side to the T. I know I have to patient to get it right. How long do you think it will take me to get a huge twist?

jasoncho92
05-20-2007, 06:58 PM
Only sidespin would be a slice. If you are thinking about slicing it the other way then I doubt this is possible due to the restrictions of arm movement.
Slicing it lefty when youre right handed is completely possible lol. I used to do it for fun

LarougeNY
05-20-2007, 07:28 PM
Every serve i hit i only hit with continental. Learn everything continental and you will be better in the long run.

I agree. Continental is the way to go, you can get any kind of serve with it.

Besides, a grip switch for only one type of serve would tip off your opponent, so he'd anticipate a kicker.

Ghosting
05-21-2007, 03:17 AM
I agree. Continental is the way to go, you can get any kind of serve with it.

Besides, a grip switch for only one type of serve would tip off your opponent, so he'd anticipate a kicker.

I aslo find it pretty difficult to pronate properly to the right with EB grip. That's why I can't get aggressive ball jump action to the right which is probably more important than only high bounce.

Vision84
05-21-2007, 03:25 AM
Slicing it lefty when youre right handed is completely possible lol. I used to do it for fun

I thought that a twist serve would still have some kick on it buut maybe I was wrong and the arm could go all the way over. It must be very uncomfortable on the arm to consistently hit reverse sidespin

Ghosting
05-21-2007, 04:56 AM
I can get every now and then pretty good topspin serve but almost never get aggressive ball jump action to the right (I'm righty). Kick serve is either topspin serve or twist serve. Twist serve consists of topspin serve and reverse side spin. To get twist serve experts say that you first have to brush up like for topspin serve but when you are catching the ball you must at the same time pronate your arm to the right which is for me the most difficult. It's like stopping on the ball and fling it to the right. I think it's only way how to get aggressive ball jump action to the right. If you brush from 7-1 or 8-2 I think it's impposible to get tremendous twist. The ball will bounce high and a bit to the right but you never get great spin. The ball won't first twist to the left in the air but will go straight so it's much easier for opponent. Brush up, catch the ball with extended arm and fling out is only right way. But I find it very difficult to get it in 4 milliseconds. I also try it with continental grip as with eastern backhand it's difficult to pronate properly.

Ghosting
05-21-2007, 12:49 PM
How much should I turn my shoulders to hit a twist serve from the ad side? Some pro players keep their front shoulder sideways to the baseline and their "racket" shoulder is almost parallel to the baseline.