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strcmp
05-19-2007, 12:00 AM
she hits pretty hard for a 10 yr old girl..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qzJMwt7z4Y

added bonus: funny voice tennis tip video lol..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5Op0FHSNbY

BeachTennis
05-19-2007, 03:46 AM
Thats a playa!

I will be looking for in the years to come!

Thanks for the cool find!

armand
05-19-2007, 05:31 AM
Oh no, not another one. That coach at the end blowing sunshine up her *** is worrisome.

And what's with that BH? Borg fan or something?

Hey whatever happened to that other thread with about the kid and his father was on here defending him and everything?

lordmanji
05-19-2007, 07:48 AM
pretty good. she could prob beat most of the 3.0s here. dunno about 3.5 tho. i just hope her dad doesnt take it too far and keep it enjoyable yet competitive for her.

35ft6
05-19-2007, 09:18 AM
She's pretty good, but not so sure she's world class good even for a 10 yo. There seems to be some fundamental flaws on her backhand. The most impressive thing was her foot speed for a girl her age, but the strokes, not so much.

Looks like she got double bageled in a tournament by a girl two years older than her.

http://www.tennisinformation.com/tourny/5/1/7/4/0/8/8/results-8.asp

I think the first few seconds of the video says it all -- they're trying to sell her "looks," attract investors and sponsors. IMO. True female prodigies usually regularly beat the top girls 3 to 4 years older than them, if not older WOMEN. This girl will only be a good college player unless she has a major growth spurt and develops a couple of huge weapons to cover up that technically flawed backhand.

smoothtennis
05-19-2007, 09:26 AM
Yeah, and the girl that double bageled her, almost got double bageled herself later in the tourney....so there is definately some room to grow in there and an apparent skill gap to close.

35ft6
05-19-2007, 09:28 AM
Good god, another marketing video.

http://alexusjones.com/

This one just flat out says they're looking for investors pretty much. From her video, she doesn't look very good at all.

LarougeNY
05-19-2007, 09:34 AM
I don't get it, sometimes she hits a two hander, sometimes a one hander, and sometimes a semi-one hander.
she is really, really good for a 10 year old girl though.

grizzly4life
05-19-2007, 09:52 AM
wow, that's pretty amazing for 10 year-old... this might be harsh, but i can't see her hitting those backhands under any kind of pressure. probably need to tighten things up like a previous poster said.

LuckyR
05-19-2007, 10:19 AM
She is an excellent tennis player for 10 years old. She'll probably never make $1 from tennis, but that isn't (shouldn't be) the point of learning tennis, after all. She may or may not have a scholarship in her future. She seems like a nice kid with an overeager dad.

deluxe
05-19-2007, 03:44 PM
Anyone see this girl winning the junior FO in the next two years?

fgs
05-19-2007, 04:03 PM
it's difficult to form an opinion from such a short video footage, but yes, for a 10 year old girl i dare say the performance is pretty good. there is still much room for improvement on the stroke mechanics of both forehand and backhand. haven't seen a slice backhand though, and while the footwork on moving left and right was quite decent (looked like some late hits on some though), there was one shorter ball which seemed to give her lots of trouble - that's where ballistics come in and you have a hard time positioning on longer and shorter balls. also i missed a service, which is an all important stroke, even in the girls' game.

Spindarella
05-19-2007, 04:26 PM
She isn't that great. I actually remember seeing her at that tournament where she got double bageled. The park is a couple minutes from my house. There are several better players at her age just in this area, and im certain there are many, many more around the rest of the country and the rest of the world.

Slazenger
05-19-2007, 04:29 PM
OMG I am dying at your signature.

When did Aykhan post that? What does it even mean??? LOL!

Spindarella
05-19-2007, 04:37 PM
I have no idea when he posted it, and I have no idea what it means...

But I love it and I live by it.

fgs
05-19-2007, 04:48 PM
spindarella,
i think that it's not about being great, in spite of what her dad i suppose was telling us in that video, but about the potential of her to develop. in order to evaluate this you need much more footage and more strokes, ideally in a competitive situation.
i'm thinking of my son for instance who will soon turn 8. i'd like him to have a complete game, so he already plays bh slices, volleys, tries to get some kick on the serve (won't overdo because of not generating back issues), etc. of course i'd also like him to win some matches, but that's too early now. at this age they have to learn to "feel" the game and try the shots to go for, winning is secondary until 12-13.

Spindarella
05-19-2007, 05:03 PM
I don't evaluate how good kids are by how much they win. I will give her this: she has great coordination and is a great athlete. She is way ahead of the other girls her age in that respect. However, her strokes could use a lot of work, and her style of play is questionable. Her serve isn't very good either. If she gets to a good coach soon and fixes her strokes, I think she could really be great. If she stays on her current path though, winning or losing, i dont think she will get very far.

Hot Sauce
05-19-2007, 05:13 PM
"If you thought Deja was just another pretty face.."

Certainly not what I was thinking!

fgs
05-19-2007, 05:44 PM
spindarella,
you are confirming what i previously said - there is still much work to do on the strokes, and i haven't seen any serve on the video, which you happened to see at the tournament. she is indeed coordinating well currently, but let's wait and see how it's going to be after her next growth spurt.

theRadical
05-19-2007, 06:33 PM
wow, theres no way she looks 10 years old

[K]aotic
05-19-2007, 10:22 PM
ehh that girl is OVERHYPED! its obvious that hse isn't serving with her whole arm.

DamonK
05-20-2007, 10:58 AM
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DamonK
05-20-2007, 11:00 AM
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Spindarella
05-20-2007, 11:11 AM
If her superior athletic ability and coordination get her past with unorthodox form and strokes, which is very possible, she will be something to see in a few years. Keep her aggresive and coming in. If she is good enough to go pro, by the time she gets there, no one will be seeing opponents serving and volleying. If she is truly good at that, she will be a huge force. But don't let her become just another baseliner. She is too talented for that. And I don't think I've ever seen a kid with a really good overhead. That one just comes with age and experience. Congrats on the talented daughter and good luck!

volusiano
05-20-2007, 11:14 AM
I would be interested in seeing some video clips of her serve and perhaps serve & volley shots. Do you have any?

35ft6
05-20-2007, 02:52 PM
Its so amazing that people will point out one match against a 14 year old who's style frustrated Deja, but they wont look to her next two matches against 16 and 18 year olds which she won, go figure. None of us saw the results against the 16 and 18 yo posted. Links? What is Deja's current ranking?

Her movement looks world class for a 10 yo. Most older girls don't have that kind of foot speed.

fgs
05-20-2007, 06:35 PM
damonk,
as i initially said in my post, it is difficult to make an evaluation on such a limited footage and just a couple of baseline strokes. she's moving really good left and right, but the most important moves in tennis are forth and back, so that's where you can get off balance and do a poor shot - i don't mean coming in to the net. anyway, you have definitely something to be work on and working for, so keep it going and the best of luck to both of you.

p.s.
i don't know why the op said "crazy" in the title, because i don't see anything crazy in the fact that a kid just loves the game. it that's crazy, than i also have a crazy boy (8yrs.), but i'm not going to look for counselling.:D

onehandbh
05-21-2007, 10:48 AM
... You know the footage against the tennis machine was not Deja's style of play she was practicing defense. The 65 mphs groundstroke’s simulated playing a 16 or 18 year old who could run her around
... The unorthodox flat backhand that Deja hit on the video is deadly but she loops it also she just happened to be practicing winners when it was filmed. ...

I'm a little confused. Was she "practicing defense" or "practicing winners"
in the video? or winners from a defensive position? She was pretty
far behind the baseline.


John McEnroe’s game because of his lack of “traditional “stroke development seemed to based on athletic ability, and shot selection. Deja’s will be based on this also but her game is also going to be backed up by tremendous power, and although not traditional heavy stroke development. There is no way to rewrite history Deja’s game is what is. There are things that aren’t traditional and there are things that are such as her serve.

She appears to be very athletic and have very good movement.
I would encourage you to get her some good coaching to perfect
technique so that the technical flaws in her game don't limit her
potential -- especially if she has an aggressive game.

Can you post a video of her serves? volleys?

sapient007
05-21-2007, 11:45 AM
maybe it's also due to the father's superior athletic ability and coordination that he clicked post 2ice. even faster than a enterprise chat serve resulting in double posts.

LuckyR
05-21-2007, 01:28 PM
Hello to you all a friend lead me to this message board. I am the father of the girl in question.


No need to verify that you are rightly proud of your daughter's skill with a tennis racquet. In fact you would be a poor father not to trumpet her accomplishments.

On the other hand, everyone else here aren't her father and bring their experience and opinions (without any family connection) to the mix, no slight intended, just a dose of reality.

DamonK
05-21-2007, 02:07 PM
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35ft6
05-21-2007, 04:17 PM
In terms of fixing technical flaws related to the swing. We dont want to start over from scratch. I think you're making a terrible mistake with this. Changing her backhand isn't starting from scratch, she already has a good understanding of mechanics and timing, it's not like teaching a total beginner. If you want to have a chance in the pros, change her backhand now. You heard that Pete Sampras changed from one of the best two handers in the juniors to a one-hander in his early teens, right? His results junior results suffered, but the dude won a few Slams later on. (not saying she needs to hit a one-hander by the way) Maybe in the juniors she can get away with but it's going to really hurt her down the line. She's only 10. You want her to be a winner NOW, or are you thinking long term? So what if her junior ranking slips.Its kinda like golf in my eyes as long as at contact point everything is lined she wont miss. Nobody misses when everythings perfect. That's a very low standard you're setting for the integrity of her stroke mechanics. Her strokes need to be so sound that they hold up even when she has a talented opponent moving her around, doing everything possible so that she never gets a good look at the ball.She was under pressure there and being tested by speeds and ball patterns that girls her age simply cant generate. She held up fine minus some positioning mistakes. This can be a mistake, too. On one hand, it's not bad to do this every now and then, but doing it too much is bad. I've heard stories about women pros having to stop practicing with men too much because they were getting too used to shots they never saw on the WTA tour. It's not just a quantitative difference, we're talking about a qualitative difference. What I mean by that is that your training philosophy, at least as demonstrated in this video, seems to be that this ball machine is playing like a SUPER JUNIOR, and if your daughter can handle a super junior, she'll have no problem with a regular junior. But that's not really true. Like you said, she's practicing against a type of player she'll never see in a real match. "... speeds and ball patterns that girls her age simply cant generate" What is the point of practicing for an opponent she'll never play? It's like Federer practicing for a match against Nadal by getting a right handed partner who serves and volleys.

Think long term. Fix her backhand. She's only 10. She has plenty of time to develop. Don't get caught in the trap of thinking she needs to impress agents, sponsors, etc, NOW and you're not going to take any necessary steps backward for fear of making a bad impression. Think long term.

DamonK
05-21-2007, 05:04 PM
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DamonK
05-21-2007, 05:10 PM
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DamonK
05-21-2007, 05:22 PM
Thanks, I guess I'm the last one to comment on mechanics though

[K]aotic
05-21-2007, 05:34 PM
i think ur girl can beat me lol... i'm a very beginner that happens to be able to find the sweet spot for the k90 a lot.

grizzly4life
05-21-2007, 07:00 PM
sorry, i can't read this entire thread....

did this girl get double-bagled by another 10-year old girl at the local park?... i say no way that is remotely possible... or was it a 14 year old who double-bagled her? i saw perhaps a reference to older girls.... can someone clarify please??

DamonK
05-22-2007, 01:40 AM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

madmanfool
05-22-2007, 03:38 AM
What kind of a grip is using on those serves?

Solat
05-22-2007, 05:00 AM
drop all training and teach her the serve, from scratch

continental grip, slicing from R - L not inside out, flat and kick serves, balance on her feet, leg drive upwards not sideways, fuller extension on contact.

its hard to say what shortfalls she has now are due to her grip, id say all the factors mentioned earlier are directly affected to poor grip causing a poor action

This will be hard hard work, she will require a lot of support, good luck

35ft6
05-22-2007, 05:38 AM
I agree with alot of what your saying including "the integrity of the swing mechanics quote" I dont agree with your thoughts on the machine training.

I would just say I have seen this kid hit a million balls and everyone keeps saying when the game gets faster she will break down but we have tested "her fundamentals" againt people much older and stronger, and also with the machine and she is simply prepared to hit the ball in and she does. My point is if she can produce the desired results(not winning that comes from heart. I am speaking of hitting the ball with the pace, spin, & placement that she desires) why change? You seem like a nice guy. You're not getting super defensive, I believe you have your daughters best interest at heart, and I wish you the best. But that backhand can be greatly improved, and she's only 10 years old. She's got plenty of time to fix and improve it. To me, it's not a "if it ain't broke why fix it" situation. It's broke, there's no question, it's just a matter of when will people be able to really start taking advantage of it and will she be able to distract from it with a giant serve and/or forehand?

You should track her matches, prepare a spreadsheet and keep track of all her winners, errors, and when. After a few matches you'll see a trend emerge. I mean, do her opponents already pretty much attack her backhand side? Or do they attack her forehand hoping she'll go for reckless winners.

Anyway, she looks like a gifted athlete, and her forehand looks great. Why not fix her backhand. But it's up to you.

dman72
05-22-2007, 06:36 AM
I'm the father of a 7 month old, and trust me I know what it means to be proud of your kid, but putting up videos like this of your daughter on youtube is weird to me. Not quite as bad as the child beauty pagent thing, but still icky.

By the way, she is obviously good, not taking that away from her at all.

predrag
05-22-2007, 06:44 AM
drop all training and teach her the serve, from scratch

continental grip, slicing from R - L not inside out, flat and kick serves, balance on her feet, leg drive upwards not sideways, fuller extension on contact.

its hard to say what shortfalls she has now are due to her grip, id say all the factors mentioned earlier are directly affected to poor grip causing a poor action

This will be hard hard work, she will require a lot of support, good luck

Oh my God!
That serve is BAD!!!

I have seen soo many pro (meaning instructors) allowing wrong grip, wrong mechanincs that it is ridiculous.
This serve will have to be change and sooner the better.

Regards, Predrag

DamonK
05-22-2007, 06:56 AM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

Dunlop300
05-22-2007, 07:03 AM
Damon: Im curious as to how much time do you and deja put into a day training? And please count video watching, off court stuff, court time etc..
Also do you work another job or are you a pro/coach? Just wondering what it takes to get to be a great player like Deja? I read that Andre Agassi used to hit on his court with a ball machine for 5-6 hours a day when he was 10.

predrag
05-22-2007, 07:37 AM
I just dont see why we would touch the serve when she gets it(first serve) in at 70-80 percent(isnt this what pros strive for?) under pressure. She Locates it wherever she want and at 80mphs her pace is exceptional for an 11 year old. I dont plan on her getting weaker. It will exceed 100mphs when she has fully matured. You see I think people strive for perfection and we dont. She simply needs to have complete trust in her ability to hit the shot that is required when pressured. You may take the guy with cloned strokes that everyone in America has from the same book. I think its Mechanical and predictable. I will take the player who can just do it, believes in themselves and is able to foucs their energy on something else like mental focus, strategy etc. This type of player is not going to be thinking about the net being higher up the line when they have to go for winner up the line, They simply have the heart to do it in fact if its open they dont even think about it. They just react and get it done more often than not. You cant coach belief and confidence. They try to target the backhand if they can get to it, but its her more consistent wing. They dont really want to deal with change of pace from the slice, and the spin, and the flat shot. I do the spread sheets. The back hand is the more consistent wing. you seem nice, and you also seem like you know the game. I just think we have different views. In basketball terms you would take the guy who practiced a million jumpshots with textbook form. I would take the guy who went to the park and got bullied around by the older kids, and because of his lack of size had to somehow find away to get the ball in the basket consistently. Sooner or later my guy grows up and he becomes a game changing player with acrobatic moves that people have never seen. The announcers might often say "how in the heck did he get the ball in". The answer is simple he's been doing it his whole life. A bad serve in your mind must mean it doesnt look like it came from a book. To me a bad serve is Elena Dementieva she cant get it in. Too me a good serve is a faster pace than your opponents are used to, the ability to place the serve, and the ability to get the ball in at 70 to 80% under pressure on the first serve she does that, so its good...........No its good tennis talk why take offense


She hits high forehand and not an overhead serve.

She gets 80 mph on her serve? With underspin/backspin?
With all due respect, I don't believe it.

Now, reasons why go for conventional grip and motion:
1. Goal would be topspin serve. Under the preasure faster swing would genereate more reliable serve. Player is only good as his second serve.
2. Ability to serve all three types: slice, flat, topspin


Regards, Predrag

DamonK
05-22-2007, 08:01 AM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

DamonK
05-22-2007, 08:16 AM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

predrag
05-22-2007, 08:22 AM
Sorry that you dont believe it. How else could she hold serve against 18 and 16 year olds?

Her holding serve against 18 adn 16 y.o. does not prove anything.
Dementieva holds serve against top WTA players.
Not all the time, but it happens.



In a month or so i'll get a speed gun and show it live on film. Its not a problem it may even be faster then. Actually every serve isnt under spun or flat, or top spinned. She can do it all as you seen on the film, aces, out wides, kicks, and kicks away. She just kind of plays it by feel as long as she can hit 70-80 perecnt first serve I leave her alone

Well, it is up to you. It is your daughter, you do what you want to do.

Regards, Predrag

Dunlop300
05-22-2007, 08:24 AM
Thank you for your reply. Im sure you have signed on with tennisplayer.net which has some excellent footage and instruction that will help you and Deja get better and better. There are some great music videos on that site which Deja may enjoy. There is another boy who is now 6 named Jan Silva who recently was given a full scholarship to an academy in Paris. You may know this family. (originally from Sacramento) They packed up there whole clan and moved to france.

Did you use mini- tennis with foam balls ever when she was younger? I am working with my 5 year old son and have been since age 2. Not as much time as what you and Deja have put in but pretty good amount as to not overkill the fun. I have found that mini tennis with the gamma foam balls really can be fun and does not give such a big bounce as do real tennis balls.

Also - did her footwork come naturally or did you work on that with agility ladders and or footwork drills?

tennis_hand
05-22-2007, 08:30 AM
a very good player. most of the adults can't even hit as well as she did.
full of admiration. :)

DamonK
05-22-2007, 08:36 AM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

35ft6
05-22-2007, 09:02 AM
You see I think people strive for perfection and we dont. Perfection is impossible. I'm talking about doing the bare minimum.She simply needs to have complete trust in her ability to hit the shot that is required when pressured. That comes from solid mechanics.You may take the guy with cloned strokes that everyone in America has from the same book. People will invariably add their own little things to each stroke. Don't tell me you actually think Roddick, Fish, Blake, Dent, and Ginperi all have the same strokes.I think its Mechanical and predictable. I will take the player who can just do it, believes in themselves and is able to foucs their energy on something else like mental focus, strategy etc.You make it sound like solid mechanics and mental strength are mutually exclusive. In fact, they feed off each other. If she has good mechanics, she'll have more confidence trying to try different strategies. What you're talking about are the intangibles, but good mechanics should be a given. The intangibles are only allowed to come into play when there's a good physical foundation. In basketball terms you would take the guy who practiced a million jumpshots with textbook form. I would take the guy who went to the park and got bullied around by the older kids, and because of his lack of size had to somehow find away to get the ball in the basket consistently. The best NBA players have taken a "million" jumpshots. There's no reason not to. Maybe Dennis Rodman didn't, but most good players in every pro sport have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours mastering the fundamentals.

Anyway, you seem to have your mind made up. Maybe you're the type of guy who the more he hears something, the more he'll resist it to show people that he's right, so I'll stop recommending that you make your daughter's game as fundamentally sound as possible.

volusiano
05-22-2007, 09:20 AM
I just dont see why we would touch the serve when she gets it(first serve) in at 70-80 percent(isnt this what pros strive for?) under pressure. She Locates it wherever she want and at 80mphs her pace is exceptional for an 11 year old. I dont plan on her getting weaker. It will exceed 100mphs when she has fully matured. You see I think people strive for perfection and we dont. She simply needs to have complete trust in her ability to hit the shot that is required when pressured. You may take the guy with cloned strokes that everyone in America has from the same book. I think its Mechanical and predictable. I will take the player who can just do it, believes in themselves and is able to foucs their energy on something else like mental focus, strategy etc. This type of player is not going to be thinking about the net being higher up the line when they have to go for winner up the line, They simply have the heart to do it in fact if its open they dont even think about it. They just react and get it done more often than not. You cant coach belief and confidence. They try to target the backhand if they can get to it, but its her more consistent wing. They dont really want to deal with change of pace from the slice, and the spin, and the flat shot. I do the spread sheets. The back hand is the more consistent wing. you seem nice, and you also seem like you know the game. I just think we have different views. In basketball terms you would take the guy who practiced a million jumpshots with textbook form. I would take the guy who went to the park and got bullied around by the older kids, and because of his lack of size had to somehow find away to get the ball in the basket consistently. Sooner or later my guy grows up and he becomes a game changing player with acrobatic moves that people have never seen. The announcers might often say "how in the heck did he get the ball in". The answer is simple he's been doing it his whole life. A bad serve in your mind must mean it doesnt look like it came from a book. To me a bad serve is Elena Dementieva she cant get it in. Too me a good serve is a faster pace than your opponents are used to, the ability to place the serve, and the ability to get the ball in at 70 to 80% under pressure on the first serve she does that, so its good...........No its good tennis talk why take offense

Regarding improving her serve, I think it depends on the goal you have for your daughter. If you don't care about her turning pro, then you can set your target low and be content with 80% placement in the box. But if you want her to turn pro (which looks like the case), you need to set your goal much higher and make sure she has the right mechanics for her serve. A strong serve is half the game already, so if she can only place flat/fast balls in the box, she'll miss out on twist, kick, top spin, aces, etc. in her arsenal and not have enough in her bag of tricks to mix things up and exploit her opponent's weaknesses.

If your philosophy to coaching your daughter is centered around natural ability only, it'll only take her so far. Why not be more open minded and add in the advantages of schooling on top of the natural ability to benefit from all the experiences other people have already taken years to figure out in the game? Natural ability may be the key ingredient but it won't be the only ingredient a professional tennis player needs.

A key part of getting her to a pro level is recognizing her limitations as a player and also your limitations as a coach and find proper coaching for her. You seem open minded enough to discuss this on this board, so I hope you'll be open minded enough to realize that if this many people on this board who are just average tennis players and not pros/coaches immediately recognize the weakness in her serve and backhand and what not, then maybe there's something here to look at.

Isn't that the purpose of having a discussion here? To seek out and benefit from the constructive criticism of people on this board to help make your daughter a better tennis player? You should be asking people "What else can my daughter improve on" instead of spending all the times trying to defend her abilities. We already agree she's very naturally gifted in tennis.

Vision84
05-22-2007, 09:32 AM
I'd like to see promotional videos where the kid is put under pressure in a match situation and not just feeds. That is where it really counts I think.

DamonK
05-22-2007, 10:07 AM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

predrag
05-22-2007, 10:12 AM
I'd like to see promotional videos where the kid is put under pressure in a match situation and not just feeds. That is where it really counts I think.



Exactly.
I went ahead and searched in Florida for Daja Kitchener and only then realized that she is actually
being developed under the glass bell.

There are examples of such development. Williams sisters made it.
But they were such incredible athletes that succeded despite such approach, despite crazy father and
despite bad technique.

You kinda have to admire them.

Regards, Predrag

DamonK
05-22-2007, 10:26 AM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

smoothtennis
05-22-2007, 10:38 AM
Here is the deal with the serve grip. It is not just about getting it in 80% of the time at the pro level. Weekend warriors at 3.5 get thier serves in all the time.

What we are really talking about here are options. The more options she has, the more tools she has to employ in a world class environment against the best players in the world. Serving with that grip will allow her a few types of serves, but it is very limiting. She cannot hit right to left slice serves or kickers with that grip. And....if she can, she is going to hurt herself eventually.

The reason people use certain grips like Continental is not because it is cookie cutter. It is about mechanical limitation of the joints. The joints have limitations. To get the racket head into certain positions for slice, kick, etc, you have to have certain grips. We all pick grips based on the type of shot we want to hit.

The point is....she is 11 now right? I mean, it would not be that difficult to learn a new grip?

DamonK
05-22-2007, 11:00 AM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

GRANITECHIEF
05-22-2007, 12:39 PM
I am in agreement that the serve grip will be a deal breaker. If you can provide an example of even one top 100 pro, not only now, but in history, that served an inside out slice with a forehand grip, i would be surprised.

There is a reason that all pros serve with roughly the same type of grip. Because it allows one to change up the spin on the ball. If Deja can do that with that grip, please post a video of it, because i have a hard time conceptualizing it.

By the way, my boy turned 11 last december and is rising up the boys 12's rankings in SoCal steadily. He has beaten kids 14, 16, 18, 25, 40, etc.. But he hasn't beaten the top rated 12's in SoCal yet or won any of the highest level nationals in the 12's. Has Deja won a Level 1 National in the 12's or 14's? Like the Easter bowl? If not, that woudl be a great forum for you to expose her weaknesses.

It my opinion that the results at this stage don't matter as much as building a solid foundation in technique. Results start to matter more in the 16's and up.

smoothtennis
05-22-2007, 12:51 PM
Great message smooth, I think she might chang her serve grip depending on whatever serve she is trying. If not I will have to adress what you are discussing we dont want any injuries. She doesnt complain though so knowing Deja I will have to look this afternoon, but knowing her even though the grip may start the same she is probably adjusting her hand fingers, and whatever else to get to point to where she can exceute the shot and not feel any pain and thus getting hurt

Hey, I know you are handling her with kid gloves, I think we all understand that. And big changes are scary. However, you know, we have all adjusted and changed grips before. That is not as bad as trying to change like a backhand from scratch.

When I switched to Contenental from eastern like your daughter uses, it really didn't take long to get the feel of it, because suddenly, I was like, WOW, I can feel the strings biting into the ball now. And she already pronates to get an inside out slice on her serve. With a new grip, she can pronate the same way and that will add massive power to her FLAT serve, rather than it going to a slice.

Right now, she is limited on her flat serve because she *cannot* pronate to add extra power, because with her current grip, the pronoation causes an inside out slice, where with a Contenental, it causes a huge boost of pure power because it is adding one more link in the kinetic chain from ground to racket. That little bit of pronation is unbelievable on a flat serve, the result it can produce.

But my point really, is that changing her serve grip is not like starting all over ok? It's just not. She appearently has a ton of talent and feel. She will be all over that once she feels what it does to the ball, and what she can do with it. All over it! :grin:

BTW, congrats on your daughters tennis game, very nice to see in such a young kid, I hope you all keep it fun!

onehandbh
05-22-2007, 01:16 PM
Agree with the others. Definitely get to work on the serving with the
correct grip ASAP. With her current grip she won't be able to hit a topspin
or kick serve as effectively (vs. continental grip). Just the way our bodies
were designed. Power will be limited as well.
For beginners, it is initially easier to make clean contact
with the ball on serves with a forehand grip, but you should change ASAP
IMO.

I'm all for letting natural instincts shape technique, but only under the
guidance of an expert to make sure you aren't developing a habit that
may hinder down the road.

As an example, I used to hit with this guy that took a huge cut (like a
backhand slice on his backhand volley). I remember we'd see this guy
smacking backhand volleys and want to do the same, but the head pro
explained why we shouldn't. The head pro kept trying to get him
to change his stroke, but he didn't seem to really want to. At the junior
level he could get away with it and it had good power. The flaw in his
stroke didn't appear until he played top juniors and college players.
The shot just took too much timing and time to execute. At a certain level
and against certain level competition he'd spray volleys or hit way
too much slice or hit it too late and not have as much precision and power.
Let's say volley technique A takes .5 seconds to complete. Technique B
takes .1 seconds. Both have equal power and B and better accuracy.
I'd take B every time. The flaws in A may not show up until you meet
better competition though. The longer you spend perfecting technique A
the harder it will be to change down the road.

87t0101
05-22-2007, 02:53 PM
To the OP -
I am surprised your letting people on a chat board change your game.
You know your daughter and you know what you and your daughter are capable of. I'm sure you had a game plan that you all believed in before this thread was started. At this stage of the game - you should go with what you feel in your heart!

smoothtennis
05-22-2007, 03:29 PM
To the OP -
I am surprised your letting people on a chat board change your game.
You know your daughter and you know what you and your daughter are capable of. I'm sure you had a game plan that you all believed in before this thread was started. At this stage of the game - you should go with what you feel in your heart!

He is a full grown man, I am sure he is old enough to listen to suggestions, advice, and experience, and make his own decisions. Do you honestly think he and his daughter are never going to make adjustments to her game to improve in the next 10 years? Of course they are. Game plans are not static, but must be dynamic, and the game changes every few years. If people are not willing to change, then the results are predictable agreed?

And it's not like he is on a NASCAR forum asking about tennis right? :rolleyes:

We could say the same thing about ANYBODY...such as "I am surprised you are letting anybody change your game....cuz' you had a game plan at the beginning..."

Nothing wrong with listening to others educated opinions.

35ft6
05-22-2007, 05:29 PM
To the OP -
I am surprised your letting people on a chat board change your game.
You know your daughter and you know what you and your daughter are capable of. I'm sure you had a game plan that you all believed in before this thread was started. At this stage of the game - you should go with what you feel in your heart! First post. I wonder who this person is.

No way it could be the dad! No way!!!

35ft6
05-22-2007, 05:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kDUkFRReug

MrCLEAN
05-22-2007, 05:59 PM
This whole thing is just eerie.

DamonK
05-22-2007, 06:33 PM
No I checked and Deja adjust her hands & fingers for each serve. There is no injury risk and this explains her ability to hit with power, spin and location whenever she wants. I would never let anyone change Deja's game unless she could get hurt. There is no way because she adjust as I thought. I just never took the time to look because she has allways got the results that she needed with the serve. I agree one must listen. Very observant she has gotten as skilled as she is by adjusting on the fly and to what people have tried to do expose her......

DamonK
05-22-2007, 06:34 PM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

GNIHT
05-22-2007, 07:26 PM
She needs technique, and it doesn't sound like the father is convinced.

However, it's difficult to know what will happen and no one here can predict for 100%.

Deja has a good read on the ball and moves extremely fast. With some proper coaching I believe she has more of a chance than almost any other 11 year old to be a pro someday, but she's going to have to learn some serious technique now.

BeachTennis
05-22-2007, 08:27 PM
This whole thing is just eerie.

This is not eerie !

ee·rie or ee·ry (îr'ē) pronunciation
adj., -ri·er, -ri·est.


1. Inspiring inexplicable fear, dread, or uneasiness; strange and frightening.
2. Suggestive of the supernatural; mysterious. See synonyms at weird.

MrClean, MrClean, Quite Contrary

con·trar·y
adj.
1. Opposed, as in character or purpose: contrary opinions; acts that are contrary to our code of ethics.
2. Opposite in direction or position: Our boat took a course contrary to theirs. See Synonyms at opposite.
3. Music Moving in the opposite direction at a fixed interval: playing scales in contrary motion.
4. Adverse; unfavorable: a contrary wind.
5. also (kn-trâr) Given to recalcitrant behavior; willful or perverse.
n. pl. con·trar·ies
1. Something that is opposite or contrary.
2. Either of two opposing or contrary things: "Truth is perhaps . . . a dynamic compound of opposites, savage contraries for a moment conjoined" A. Bartlett Giamatti.
3. Logic A proposition related to another in such a way that if the latter is true, the former must be false, but if the latter is false, the former is not necessarily true.
adv.
In an opposite direction or manner; counter: The judge ruled contrary to all precedent in the case.


This is a cinderella story :)


The name Cinderella is sometimes applied to a person or group that undergoes a sudden transformation, such as an athletic team that loses frequently and then starts to win steadily.

A shot at the Title is every ath·letes dream and daily fuel !

(ăth'lēt')
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

You Know the story !

Yo Yo :)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075148/trailers-screenplay-E10905-10-2


Its all about spir·it

(spĭr'ĭt)
n.

1.
1. The vital principle or animating force within living beings.
2. Incorporeal consciousness.
2. The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.
3. Spirit The Holy Spirit.
4. A supernatural being, as:
1. An angel or a demon.
2. A being inhabiting or embodying a particular place, object, or natural phenomenon.
3. A fairy or sprite.
5.
1. The part of a human associated with the mind, will, and feelings: Though unable to join us today, they are with us in spirit.
2. The essential nature of a person or group.
6. A person as characterized by a stated quality: She is a proud spirit.

will (wĭl)
n.

1.
1. The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action:

2. Diligent purposefulness; determination: an athlete with the will to win.

And a Huge Desire passion and love for the game!

de·sire (dĭ-zīr')


Can not hurt to practice the "The Secret"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(2006_film)

tennisbass
05-22-2007, 08:34 PM
It's great that Deja plays well for her age.

I personally as a parent would not lay this kind of expectation and pressure on my child on the internet. Privately, sure I would encourage and help my child anyway I can. But not on the internet. I would be concerned about the psychological consequence if the expectation is not met.

I prefer to let the trophies and rankings do the talking.

Spindarella
05-22-2007, 09:14 PM
whether she changes her hand and fingers or not, if she serves the way she did in the video and tries to spin the ball different ways, she could very easily get a wrist injury.

Solat
05-22-2007, 09:54 PM
Damonk:

its great that you and your daughter have the drive (and hopefully love) for the game and have clear thoughts on pathways and developments. Therefore you have the right to argue your point of view, which can not be doubted because you have developed obviously a talented player there.
You must of course acknowledge the points of view of those here who you have opened yourself (and your daughters game) to. We have opinions which are as valid as yours, but we are looking from a different perspective, i don't think anyone here would be out to sabotage the career of your daughter, i also don't believe that we all share the same robotic idealisms because if we did there wouldnt be a forum because we would all just agree with everything.

I'm surprised that TennisMastery or Jco havent popped their heads in, but both would have a great point of view on this story. I don't disagree with what you are saying in that her serve achieves everything a serve should for someone at her age, however there are tennis fundamentals that are essential for long term development and improvement, a continental grip is one of these, it allows variety & power and injury prevention. Not every pro has identical strokes but all pros have the same fundamentals which promote their positive strokes. Its the reason that Deja can hit a 1 or 2 handed backhand with little difference is that she has the stroke fundamentals(ignoring the subtle differences that should exist).

She will need to develop a kick serve, for two reasons, 1. to get a high % of 2nd serves and 2. to put the ball out of the receivers hitting zone. As effective as her serve may be now it will only ever skid thru and be in the hitting zone.

As you know its not essential that she changes grip to succeed at tennis, because she is winning now, but there is a limit to what is achievable, unless she is so good with the rest of her game to make up for it.

smoothtennis
05-22-2007, 10:02 PM
The youtube thing concerns me. Deja doesn't need to respond to critics here, she is eleven years old. She needs to focus on tennis, not naysayers. Lets not forget she is a real kid, not an adult. Dad...don't drag her into this stuff please, for her sake? ;)

That said...I think McEnroe and Borg, if they were playing today, using the stroke technique they used back in their day, with today's athletic players and racket technology would not stand a chance unless they had their technique up to par to match the equipment, and game style of today. And hey...I am a McEnroe fan freak too. I just believe he would have to adust today due to where the game is that's just reality.

Remember talent is talent, but as technique improves and matures in a given sport, so does the level of actual realized achievement.

rfprse
05-22-2007, 10:52 PM
Guys, giving an advice seems to be just a waste of your time.
About the service grip, they will realize the limitation when the time comes.... For her own sake, hope the time comes soon enough.
I can't believe a decent coach didn't change her grip for serve (considering her athletic talent) .... Once the mechanism is stuck, it's tough to develop a good serve. But if they believe it's good enough since it works, it's their choice.

BeachTennis
05-23-2007, 03:55 AM
It is easy to make change.
Change happens.
Even if we sit still . . . do nothing . . . change happens.
It is more difficult to make good change.
Change that makes life better. Change that endures.
Change that persists.

:)

There once was a pretty good student,
Who sat in a pretty good class
And was taught by a pretty good teacher,
Who always let pretty good pass.
He wasn't terrific at reading;
He wasn't a whiz-bang at math;
But for him education was leading

Straight down a pretty good path.
He didn't find school too exciting,
But he wanted to do pretty well,
And he did have some trouble with writing,
And nobody had taught him to spell.
When doing arithmetic problems,
Pretty good was regarded as fine;
Five and five needn't always add up to be ten,
A pretty good answer was nine.
The pretty good student was happy
With the standards that were in effect,
And nobody thought it was sappy
If his answers were not quite correct.
The pretty good class that he sat in
Was part of a pretty good school,
And the student was not an exception;
On the contrary, he was the rule.
The pretty good school that he went to
Was right there in a pretty good town.
And nobody there ever noticed
He could not tell a verb from a noun.
The pretty good student, in fact,
was part of a pretty good mob,
And the first time he knew what he lacked was
When he looked for a pretty good job.
It was then, when he sought a position,
He discovered that a life can be tough,
And he soon had a sneaky suspicion
Pretty good might not be good enough.
The pretty good town in our story
Was part of a pretty good state
Which had pretty good aspirations
And prayed for a pretty good fate.
There was once a pretty good nation,
Pretty proud of the greatness it had,
But which learned much too late,
If you want to be great,
Pretty good is, in fact, pretty bad.

By
Charles Osgood

BeachTennis
05-23-2007, 04:32 AM
Myelin

It adds up to a two-part dynamic that is elegant enough to please Darwin himself: myelin controls the impulse speed, and impulse speed is crucial. The better we can control it, the better we can control the timing of our thoughts and movements, whether we're running, reading, singing or, perhaps more to the point, hitting a wicked topspin backhand.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/05/sports/web.0305prodigy.php

DamonK
05-23-2007, 05:20 AM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

smoothtennis
05-23-2007, 05:55 AM
OK, well I am pretty much done with this one. I just have a final thought about the whole matter.

As an outside observer here is what confounds me a bit from a logical standpoint.

If you have a kid as talented as Deja, obviously top notch material, I just don't see why you wouldn't want to give her every possible edge. She has great talent and strengths in her own right. If technique is one of the areas that can use obvious improvement with a good coach, why not use it?

If you have say...5 possible strengths that make up a top player, and the kid posseses 4 or those on their own, why take the approach that the other 4 will become so strong that the 5th can remain weaker. If you have a choice, why not work on 5 as well?

Besides, in Deja's case, it seems her main weakness is one that can be coached much easier than the intangible, and physical one's. She appears to be the perfect candidate for working hard on improving stroke mechanics, I mean, what a great combination that would become over time.

Best of luck in the future!!! :grin:

RedWeb
05-23-2007, 06:20 AM
Myelin

It adds up to a two-part dynamic that is elegant enough to please Darwin himself: myelin controls the impulse speed, and impulse speed is crucial. The better we can control it, the better we can control the timing of our thoughts and movements, whether we're running, reading, singing or, perhaps more to the point, hitting a wicked topspin backhand.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/05/sports/web.0305prodigy.php

Thanks for pointing us to that immensely fascinating article!

DamonK
05-23-2007, 10:58 AM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

volusiano
05-23-2007, 05:36 PM
OK, well I am pretty much done with this one. I just have a final thought about the whole matter.

As an outside observer here is what confounds me a bit from a logical standpoint.

If you have a kid as talented as Deja, obviously top notch material, I just don't see why you wouldn't want to give her every possible edge. She has great talent and strengths in her own right. If technique is one of the areas that can use obvious improvement with a good coach, why not use it?

If you have say...5 possible strengths that make up a top player, and the kid posseses 4 or those on their own, why take the approach that the other 4 will become so strong that the 5th can remain weaker. If you have a choice, why not work on 5 as well?

Besides, in Deja's case, it seems her main weakness is one that can be coached much easier than the intangible, and physical one's. She appears to be the perfect candidate for working hard on improving stroke mechanics, I mean, what a great combination that would become over time.

Best of luck in the future!!! :grin:

I agree. I'm pretty much done with this thread as well. There's no 'obsession' from any of the posters here about the serve or anything else. They just pointed out obvious fundamental flaws any reasonable tennis player can see right away, and they gave well intended suggestions in a constructive manner. But they're instead labelled as 'critics' and dad even put up Deja to 'respond' to her 'critics'. If that's not closed minded, I don't know what is.

My final thought on the whole matter is that Deja's biggest limitation will not even be her flawed techniques. It will be dad as her tennis coach.

DamonK
05-23-2007, 06:57 PM
Deja has no limitations because she is not confined to a certain form. Its called being able to change your game, grip, style and whatever else to get the desired results when you need them. Maybe her speed allows for her the time to do this? You say Continental grips help to promote this, Eastern helps to promote that, Western promotes this. Ok if you say so. I say Deja do them all hit all the shots because you have to, to be as great as you want to be. I have shown you a kid who can do all of this and yet you say. Change? No way. Some said she couldnt hit top spin with her grip so I show you a video of her whipping one handed topspinned shots from her toes into a crosswind at a pace suitable for a 16 year old. If it's impossible to do these things then how does she because she has never had limits and never will. I am done also because when people are out of educated thoughts the only resort is to ridicule me..........

AngeloDS
05-23-2007, 07:13 PM
She's very talented, at hitting balls that really don't have a mind to them. However, it would be nice to see how well she hits and adapts during against real people =).

More than coaching; she needs to play against a variety of players and develop her own techniques to defeat various players. The only way you beat people, is by doing that... beating people. Training is a good step to get there, but she's already past that imo. She has the flexibility to adapt and do different things.

She needs to discover herself and her own potential and develop her own style through playing a lot of players. Rather than playing tournaments here and there and hitting a lot with a coach. She needs to go to an academy and play these high caliber players on a daily basis to develop her own style and abilities.

grizzly4life
05-23-2007, 07:25 PM
Nice article here is my quote from the article

What do good athletes do when they train?" George Bartzokis, a professor of neurology at U.C.L.A., had told me. "They send precise impulses along wires that give the signal to myelinate that wire. They end up, after all the training, with a super-duper wire — lots of bandwidth, high-speed T-1 line. That's what makes them different from the rest of us."

hmmmm???.... this is probably deserving of its own thread.... i read bjorn borg trained for 9 hours a day. kobe works out for 6 hours a day hard in the off-season. andy murray (which one doesn't belong LOL) hasn't had an alcoholic drink in 3 years.... i do think somewhat it's just wanting it and doing what's necessary (i know there are all sorts of comebacks)

ChiefAce
05-24-2007, 12:47 AM
Deja has no limitations because she is not confined to a certain form. Its called being able to change your game, grip, style and whatever else to get the desired results when you need them. Maybe her speed allows for her the time to do this? You say Continental grips help to promote this, Eastern helps to promote that, Western promotes this. Ok if you say so. I say Deja do them all hit all the shots because you have to, to be as great as you want to be. I have shown you a kid who can do all of this and yet you say. Change? No way. Some said she couldnt hit top spin with her grip so I show you a video of her whipping one handed topspinned shots from her toes into a crosswind at a pace suitable for a 16 year old. If it's impossible to do these things then how does she because she has never had limits and never will. I am done also because when people are out of educated thoughts the only resort is to ridicule me..........

Stubborn is whats about to prevent your daughter from being as good as she possibly could be. A couple of observations from viewing the videos. She has plenty of natural talent, and she will do well with that but girls with better all around technical skills will beat her because of superior technique. She's only 11 years old so you still have time to fix these things like her backhand grip/form, she appears to be using a one handed backhand grip but sometimes hitting a two hander. Her forehand is pretty good, but could be better much more in the mold of Henin/Federer.

Her serve needs work, she needs a grip change so she can move her contact point up higher. With that grip she'll never serve a high percentage to each 1/3 of the service box with good speed. What I would like to see is you divide the service box into 3 equal sections and have her attempt to serve 10 serves to the left, 10 middle, and 10 to the right on the deuce or ad side. With that grip I guarantee she won't be able to place 21/30 in the proper sections with good speed. In fact she would be lucky to get 15/30. I'd love to see a video of her attempting this.

If you really want her to get better, you need to help her mechanically and with her grips. Those are the most important things in the foundation of any great tennis player. Good luck.

BeachTennis
05-24-2007, 03:29 AM
From Russia with Racquet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG2JJU1kM8Y
The real life Russian Rocky

DamonK
05-24-2007, 05:52 AM
You know when Deja was very young we were watching a match broadcasted by Patrick Mcenroe. P-Macs partners says "hey P-Mac if you were starting to develop a youngster what would you choose a two hander or one hander" P-Mac says "well ideally I would choose both because each one has different benefits" So when a one hander is more beneficial she plays the one hander, and when the two hander is she plays the two hander. If she is hitting both with equal consistency, accuracy, spin, and with power far greater than girls her age why is this a problem?. I think its a unique trait that allows her the benefit of both strokes. You folks keep saying flawed techniques. But the ball arrives at the target at a greater pace, and spin than most kids even close to her age. I don’t see how this can be flawed I think it is simply that she gets to the correct contact point in a different way than most people do. Someone said that she would not be able to beat top juniors with the same talent and traditional strokes. She has practice matches against top juniors who are older than her, and she beats them regularly so that theory is wrong. . Her technique provides her with unbelievable power which protects her and evens things out quickly, her speed also helps her get to balls that most people cant. Tennis is not a game where you win all the time unless you are playing inferior opponents. Each day is different sometimes your creative pallet is not working correctly or a person is able to confuse you. This is the other aspect of tennis that has nothing to do with form. This is why Federer who some say has perfect form can loose to. Canas, or Vilandri. This is why Blake handles Nadal well. People match up differently its just the way of good tennis. The question is can Deja’s style beat most tops kids her age routinely and the answer is yes. She is even learning to beat 16 and 18 year old with her style. I got news for you folks she’s not getting any worse. A gentleman offered to do a stroke analysis. And I will agree but it cant be bias. For example what are we analyzing? If he wants to analyze if her take back or grip is the same as Maria Sharapovas, or Federers, then we already know the answer. But neither would, Grafs, McEnroe, or Jimmy Arias. If you want analyze and compare contact points of great players lets go. She gets better everday in practice that is a fact. You guys worry about rankings I'll worry about working towards developing the ultimate game for when the rankings really count. If she can beat the ranked kids in her age groups and in the next group(I know this because she practices againts some of them here in Florida) Then she is certainly on the right track. As I said earlier she is only getting better as we speak. do you suppose that we practice to not get better? If she is this explosive now imagine in 4 years. Of course every shot in her book can be better and will get better. I keep trying to tell you that "she does no one swing the same she adapts to each situation and shot". So if you say she does this or does that I can show you another swing where she does it the way you suggest if the shot requires it or if she feels the shot requires it. A kid like Deja is a threat to the tennis teaching profession......Of course you will find flaws in form. And according to your rules of the swing there may be flaws. But it should be obvious that she has complete control and power over where the ball goes.......

fgs
05-24-2007, 01:01 PM
damonk,
now, you really have a talented kid and as i also stated earlier i wish both of you the very best - i also have a 8 yrs. old son who currently is absolutely crazy about tennis, so i know things from the parent perspective quite well.
you don't really seem to understand much about athletics in general and tennis in particular though - and i really do not want to ridicule or anything!
let me take on thing at a time:
- grips: generally you need them for correcting or adapting the geometry of the interface (hand/racquet) to the hitting point you so much talk about. it is no use making contact at the right spot with the wrong grip. the simple fact that deja hit some nice shots into the court, with pace, does not make it correct. you are talking about mcenroe and borg, what you simply ignore (maybe don't) know, is that they indeed have a very differing style of shotmaking, but the biomechanics are right in both cases. now this simply is not true for that serve with the bend arm - that in wrong biomechanics, putting joints under stress and developing injuries in the long term. the grip employed determines the angle and position of the racquethead/stringbed on impact point. thus you will have a rather difficult time to hit a kickserve with a eastern forehand grip. you also have a wrong comprehension about the "variety" somo poster mentioned. it is not ONLY about being able to hit with pace to various spots in the service boxes, it is also about the spin employed. if you mix up slice, kickers, flat and topspin serves, you will most likely get your opponent off balance because of the differing bounces.
- next thing i really do not understand is the following: you said deja has a wonderful gift of translating onto court the movements she has seen on tv or videos. now, where the hell did she pick up that service motion? hasn't she seen any other in the mean time? the main issue is the biomechanics and the way to get that speed and force through the racquet onto the ball. she can surely hit a fast ball, but taken the effort she is putting into it, the result could be twice faster, more reliable, if she'd employ the proper technique.
- there is a really huge difference between a practice match and an official match in terms of stress. i used to have a colleague in the club who was a really good player, if i managed to make two games per set in practice i had a really good day. we met twice in official tournaments too and it was not even close! winning in a competitive situation is the main issue if you want to go pro with her. winning practice matches against good, even world class juniors is good, but rather irrelevant. i understood that you are playing tournaments and that is really good, keep her at doing so but also take care not to overdo. too much too early is bad.

DamonK
05-24-2007, 01:52 PM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

predrag
05-24-2007, 02:13 PM
Deja has never seemed to have a problem translating what she does on the practice court into the actual match. Here in Florida every practice match is pressure filled for Deja because quite simply nobody wants to loose to some kid who is younger than them. Also in the actual matches nobody wants to loose to an 11 year old especially 16 or 18 year olds.
[snip]


This is a reverse logic.
it is not pressure for Deja, but for the kid playing Deja.
Because, like you said it yourself, nobody wants to lose to some kid.

If you ever took part in any sport (Soft ball leagues excluded) you would understand this.

Regards, Predrag

DamonK
05-24-2007, 04:01 PM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

Americanfan411
05-24-2007, 04:08 PM
Deja has never seemed to have a problem translating what she does on the practice court into the actual match. Here in Florida every practice match is pressure filled for Deja because quite simply nobody wants to loose to some kid who is younger than them. Also in the actual matches nobody wants to loose to an 11 year old especially 16 or 18 year olds. For the opponents parents(it means all of those thousand of dollars in lessons are not being well spent. Also for the kid it could be a real confidence breaker so she most certainly recieves the best that they have to offer. And even still she doesnt win them all but she is able to beat them. Deja visual learning is referring to being able to move fluidly and what to do in a certain situation. Of course a televison broadcast is not going to breakdown someones swing or service motion, and even if they did a 3 year old wouldnt understand it. I have read the bio mecahnic books in college. Because Deja showed an ability to produce a certain quality of shot I never bothered with it. If you can do it you can do it, and if you cant you must be taught. Obviously if two artist who are both great make it to the point to where they are both being featured in art galleries then they have perfected thier style of art. If one of them was self taught it doesnt matter. He still knows how to inspire people. I wish you good luck with your son also. The serve is the serve. 70-80 percent with spin and at a pace noticeably faster than girls her age. Once again Deja is not going to get worse, weaker, or slower


I have been reading this thread and am new here. Sounds like this persons mind is set in stone. But everyone is trying to get him to see the light. And come out of the dark. But it's not working. So let me shine some light.

I check this girls USTA record to see if she is having a good enough result to take his advise instead of the rest of yours. And what I found was that the girl who beat Deja 6-0 6-0 was not in fact 14 years old but 11 years old.

And the one match she won in the 18 year old age group was a girl who never played a USTA match any age group before that day and even at that took Deja 3 sets to do it. Take a look. Girls' 18 Singles

On Draw Line #8


Main Draw:

QF Bye
SF Loss vs. Preetika Pai 6-2; 6-0

Consolation:

SF Bye
F Win vs. Natalie Mayer 6-2; 3-6; 6-3

Any one can look and see the same. In the 16's pretty much the same. Girls' 16 Singles

On Draw Line #3


Main Draw:

16 Bye
QF Loss vs. Ashleigh Boos 6-1; 6-1

Consolation:

QF Bye
SF Loss vs. Jackyln Gion 6-4; 3-6; 6-2


Lets look at the 14's shall we.

Girls' 14 Singles

On Draw Line #13


Main Draw:

16 Loss vs. Lauren Vranov 6-0; 6-0



So who are these older girls who are all upset about losing to an 11 year old? Upset about not getting a good match maybe.

Just a dose of light. :-)

DamonK
05-24-2007, 04:30 PM
Why not post the age in the 18's win while your at it. Also post them in the correct order that they occured. Not the opposite. You will find that her record in her last four matches in the 16's and 18's is 2-2. And of course you posted her worse loss first which of course occured the furthest away. You guys kill me.This is why we play this age group so that she can be taught what is correct strategy againts smarter older people. So as I said this is what Deja faces all the time its nothing new. Infact someone posted something similar earlier on. Way to go inspector Gadget. She doesnt learn at the academies where she gets to play top players everday without risking a loss on her usta record. She learns in real competition againts nearly grown women who do not want to loose to her. As I stated earlier I will take the kid who gets bullied around by older kids because when they learn to win consistently againts the older kids whats the next chaallenge? Oh I forgot you were so bias in your investigative reporting that you failed to post her 6-1, 6-0 score in the 16's. why the bias reporting. As I said Deja deals with people like you daily its nothing.......So you dont post the age of the only win that you do post it was the 18's, and you fail all togethr to post the very impressive 6-1, 6-0 score hmmmmmmm Can you be trusted??????? even still as I stated earlier when it's all done we will see the end result of her training..........anything else?????? and I wont post her record in 10's which is 3 months ago. Because this year it is about developing againts older players. And not getting ranking points if so she would play the 12's.......If you must know her record in her age group last year its posted on her Adidas video at youtube. For all I know based on the scores and things that you left out while trying to discredit Deja you could be a jealous father of another talented young girl. Seems to be alot of hate. You see as stated earlier we develop herthis way againts people who should be able to teach her a thing or two. However she teaches them a thing or two despite your omissions of score's and ages Come on guy

jamumafa
05-24-2007, 04:41 PM
Hey dude, she hits good. I hope she does good.

Two pieces of tiny advice from a casual observer

man, make her hit that onehander. Its looks SO much better than when she keeps two hands on it.

The other one is, let her have a life dude. She might have a friends life now which is fantastic and if shes got loads of mates AND and beaty tennis game thats awesome. but I hope you let her have a life.

Good luck man your work so far is fantastic. Your girl is well fast

Americanfan411
05-24-2007, 04:46 PM
Why not post the age in the 18's win while your at it. Also post them in the correct order that they occured. Not the opposite. You will find that her record in her last four matches in the 16's and 18's is 2-2. And of course you posted her worse loss first which of course occured the furthest away. You guys kill me.This is why we play this age group so that she can be taught what is correct strategy againts smarter older people. So as I said this is what Deja faces all the time its nothing new. Infact someone posted something similar earlier on. Way to go inspector Gadget. She doesnt learn at the academies where she gets to play top players everday without risking a loss on her usta record. She learns in real competition againts nearly grown women who do not want to loose to her. As I stated earlier I will take the kid who gets bullied around by older kids because when they learn to win consistently againts the older kids whats the next chaallenge?


I must have touch a nerve.:-) The point was that she is not doing in the juniors what you say. You said "winning in the 16's and 18's " and inspector gadget says, "Ah wrong!" If the junior results don't matter to you, stop quoting them. Do they matter or not?

Because I have been the one to shine the light on your false pride. Look she is a nice young lady I think. She has raw talent I think. But let's not get carried away. Just yet. She must learn this game from someone who knows what they are talking about.

Or hear " I'll take extra fries and a large drink." is in her future.

DamonK
05-24-2007, 04:49 PM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

87t0101
05-24-2007, 04:52 PM
I was a little supportive of this person until I did a little digging myself.
Which is not hard to do when all results are public knowledge.

I know the family well that their daughter bageled Deja in the 14's - and the previous poster is correct - she is 11 -

Our "better than Bolletieri, better than Macci, better than any other tennis coach ever " Dad... is for the first time CONFUSED (he seems to have all the facts about everything else but confused over his opponents age - go figure)

My point is - Lauren Vranov is a good player - she has great strokes, form, and knowledge of the game and this came thru - not crazy grips, no form, etc. as the Dad wants us to believe.

His way did not stand up - good tennis did.

Now - what I find most ridiculous is that he feels that he can just say anything on this board and we are suppose to believe it - "she beats great junior players everyday in practice" Well thats easy to say isn't it - no results to post - he can say anything!!!!!

Lets see.... my 8 year old beat Venus today .....

The difference in the two videos show that she really doesn't hit that well.

Example - the first video when she is hitting hard - if you follow the ball with your eyes you can see how high they are and therefore obviously going long. The second video hitting with the Dad she isn't hitting as hard so she can keep the balls in thus - no control when hitting hard equals - really doesn't hit hard.

I can stand my 8 year old and have her hit the ball as hard as she can and as long as I
don't show where the balls land everyone will be really impressed.

And her balls in the matchplay video are high and loopy - anyone of any caliber would take those as a swing volley and jam then past her. And I meant 12 year olds with caliber - have you been to a 12's national lately?

And his response is going to be " oh everyone is caught up in rankings etc" Don't hide behind that - you can play one designated per month in the 12's and get better hitting than the nobody 18s your playing but that wouldn't work would it because that would remove the excuse you use - "she hits with older girls to get better hitting" I think you just don't want to show that she will lose to 12 year olds and that would make her look bad - do you think we're stupid enough to say "wow - she beat a girl in the 18s - she must be great"
It doesn't take much digging to find out the girl couldn't even play - yet it still took your girl 3 sets to close the deal. If you want her to get better hitting - then you must hit with better players - or do you just want a win in the 18s so you can say she won in the 18s , is this really doing anything for Deja?

But in reality - I think you know in your heart that we are all correct - you just can't do anything about it so you have to defend your silly methods.

And I agree with an earlier poster - if she's so great imitating other players - why does she looks so bad? Who has she been watching - Goofy Plays Tennis?

87t0101
05-24-2007, 04:53 PM
I agree totally with you but I try not to make her do anything.I kind of just give her suggestions. Im with you though. Touch a nerve hardly I just wont let you discredit my kid without giving full information..

yet you give misinformation

DamonK
05-24-2007, 05:05 PM
I Never give misinformation. I’m not an investigator like you folks. She doesn’t play rookie tourneys. she plays Championships and goes for it against whoever is in front of her. I though the Vranov kid was good. And very smart. She and kids like her are why we moved to Florida so that Deja could learn. This was stated on the YouTube profile. She was the first to change the direction(effectively) of the ball on up the line. Without playing her one of the 16 or 18 year olds that Deja beat shortly after that would have been able to do it. In fact they tried. But because the Vranov kid was able to do it we practiced for it, and she won because of it. Nothing but thanks to the Vranov girl for the lesson to my young daughter. The family was classy also……You guys are in the wrong profession. Like I said anything else

DamonK
05-24-2007, 05:18 PM
You are insane if you think those balls are going long, too funny. My mistake fellow readers, I was a little off the people who investigate the records of Deja, and Deja's opponents dont necessarily have to be fathers of talented girls, they can have talented 8 year old boys also. By all means post your video Sir. Who investigates the records of the players in the draw? I surely dont if I was concerned with this like I said I would just play her in the 12's and practice againts older kids

Americanfan411
05-24-2007, 05:19 PM
I Never give misinformation. I’m not an investigator like you folks. She doesn’t play rookie tourneys. she plays Championships and goes for it against whoever is in front of her. I though the Vranov kid was good. And very smart. She and kids like her are why we moved to Florida so that Deja could learn. This was stated on the YouTube profile. She was the first to change the direction(effectively) of the ball on up the line. Without playing her one of the 16 or 18 year olds that Deja beat shortly after that would have been able to do it. In fact they tried. But because the Vranov kid was able to do it we practiced for it, and she won because of it. Nothing but thanks to the Vranov girl for the lesson to my young daughter. The family was classy also……You guys are in the wrong profession. Like I said anything else

You know you are right. I have to admit. I would have to be an investigator to find the championships that she has won or even played in. No Rookies No Sectionals No Nationals Just "Championships" :p All jokes aside she seems like a sweat kid. Get her some professional lessons Dad.

DamonK
05-24-2007, 05:42 PM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

35ft6
05-24-2007, 05:51 PM
I check this girls USTA record to see if she is having a good enough result to take his advise instead of the rest of yours. And what I found was that the girl who beat Deja 6-0 6-0 was not in fact 14 years old but 11 years old. Actually, if you just watch the video of Deja hitting with her dad, it's pretty obvious that she's nowhere near national level. She's a good athlete, though, and her dad should be happy if she gets a free college education. Which she should be able to do.

35ft6
05-24-2007, 06:05 PM
I was not raised to doubt myself and neither is Deja. So the ploy just simply wont work. This is how champions are born and raised "ultimate belief in themselves". This is also how lives are ruined.

Even crazy Richard Williams let Richard Macci coach his daughters. It's okay to let your stubbornness undermine your own life, but you should maybe learn to be more objective for the sake of your daughter's life. I'm sure she loves her dad and thinks you know everything, but you, as an adult, should be smart enough to know that you don't know everything and to occasionally concede a point to more knowledgeable people even if it hurts your ego to do so. Out of love for your daughter, which I think is unquestionable.

Not doubting yourself is not a virtue in and of itself. If somebody thinks the world is flat and has no doubt about it, that's not something to admire. The smartest and most successful people I know are confident but are full of doubts, that's why they're always trying to learn more. Their thirst for knowledge and change is driven by doubt, a belief that they can continue improving themselves. Somewhere out there is a dad who's willing to concede authority to more evolved tennis minds, and one day your daughter will meet this kid on court. Will Deja be ready? Maybe you're a successful millionaire, and your no doubt having ways allowed you to accomplish everything you've ever wanted to in life. And maybe it hasn't. If it didn't work for you, though, don't see how it's going to work for your daughter. Most parents want the best for their kids, and I believe you do, too, but it seems like you're slightly more preoccupied with doing things your own way, even in tennis, which you already admitted you're not an expert at.

Americanfan411
05-24-2007, 06:12 PM
This is also how lives are ruined.

Even crazy Richard Williams let Richard Macci coach his daughters. It's okay to let your stubbornness undermine your own life, but you should maybe learn to be more objective for the sake of your daughter's life. I'm sure she loves her dad and thinks you know everything, but you, as an adult, should be smart enough to know that you don't know everything and to occasionally concede a point to more knowledgeable people even if it hurts your ego to do so. Out of love for your daughter, which I think is unquestionable.

Not doubting yourself is not a virtue in and of itself. If somebody thinks the world is flat and has no doubt about it, that's not something to admire. The smartest and most successful people I know are confident but are full of doubts, that's why they're always trying to learn more. Their thirst for knowledge and change is driven by doubt, a belief that they can continue improving themselves. Somewhere out there is a dad who's willing to concede authority to more evolved tennis minds, and one day your daughter will meet this kid on court. Will Deja be ready? Maybe you're a successful millionaire, and your no doubt having ways allowed you to accomplish everything you've ever wanted to in life. And maybe it hasn't. If it didn't work for you, though, don't see how it's going to work for your daughter. Most parents want the best for their kids, and I believe you do, too, but it seems like you're slightly more reoccupied to doing things your own way, even in tennis, which you already admitted you're not an expert at.

I agree " The wise man knows that he know nothing at all"

armand
05-24-2007, 06:16 PM
Example - the first video when she is hitting hard - if you follow the ball with your eyes you can see how high they are and therefore obviously going long.Haven't been following this thread closely but the above doesn't seem logical to me. Even if the balls are all going long, they are pretty consistent. And if she is able to hit with that consistency, she has the control to not hit every single ball long. The shots didn't seem long to me btw.

fgs
05-24-2007, 11:24 PM
damonk,
i do really think you just got it the absolutely wrong way - there are some posters including me that suggested you work on some stroke mechanics and on the grip on the service. as i previously stated it is a biomechanics issue and hence a matter of efficiency. your point that she hits 70% in is of no use, because she simply can not develop on this kind of serve - she is giving out on 30cm hitting height already not considering any leg drive and up into the ball motion. if i may simply try to make an analogy: take a 1970's car, it does get you anywhere you like, but a similar 2007 car would have a much higher fuel efficiency. it is fuel we are talking about here - a proper stroke mechanic will save energy (besides preventing injury from OVERUSE!) and keep you fresher in that decisive third set you might have to play. spending less energy you will also recover sooner and most important of all, with the same effort you get more results = with the same amount of gallons you get more miles.
i come back on that variety issue - variety has nothing to do with shot placement, it has to do with spin. spin is the most disturbing factor in tennis, a topspin bouncing high and the next one a flat-out skidding mean slice that makes your opponent bend his knees till he almost touches the ground, that is variety, not hitting left and right and moving the ball around the court. that would be consistency, not variety.
take care of your kid and simply stop believing that your way is the best. start listening to people because some might really have some points you can learn from. evaluate the other ones opinions instead of generally defending your position. the kid is talented, and i don't think anyone said the contrary on this board so far. don't waste this talent by imposing your way, and it is nice that deja makes some decisions, but she is at an age were you still have to make some for her - she would certainly not fully understand the biomechanics and injury issue to the full extent, and because she feels comfortable right now and successfull, she will not be willing to change.
when i was 9 i switched to continental on all my strokes, out of my own initiative. i was taught eastern grips, but since i was playing wood racquets i had no issues with hitting long on continental. i was also winning some matches, so i told my coach to just leave me alone with this grip stuff (nastase was my idol then). by the time i was 11 i did not get any better stroke-wise and had huge troubles winning a match. my coach didn't have to tell me anything - i switched back to eastern, i was sick of getting beaten by the guys i just used to beat two years ago. this is about the same thing as your 70%. so, i was regularly beating these guys with the wrong strokes because they were more comfortable at that moment for me. the wrong stroke-mechanics are a limiting factor, if not currently than in perspective, and this is the point you are missing.

Thud and blunder
05-25-2007, 04:36 AM
This thread has probably gone on too long to offer any further insights...but when did that ever stop me.

Damon has a talented kid who he's very proud of. That's great. Also, its not unusual to be defensive on a board like this, where any moron can talk trash (and many morons do...).

But OTOH, he does seem a little closed off; he should be trying to separate the wheat from the chaff and learn something from the experienced players / coaches offering their time to give an opinion.

On a macro level, I don't really understand his POV re the serve. OTOH, he tells us that results now aren't all that important, and he wants to build towards the future. I applaud that attitude. OTOH, he tells us that he doesn't want to fiddle with the serve because it's effective. This is when experts are telling him that the serve is biomechanically incorrect. THe two views are somewhat inconsistent. Maybe at the junior level you can get away with a lot of flaky stuff. That's no guide to whether any of its going to work at a higher level. Why risk perhaps getting to the 14s and realising that the serve isn't working and trying to start from scratch, trying to unlearn years of bad habits and getting demoralisingly spanked in the adjustment period....thats why you want to lay down as solid a base as possible at a young age.

BeachTennis
05-27-2007, 09:18 AM
Be sure to check this video out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT92jpPVXWo

Video from 2003
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk1MnOGnYuM

So cool to video the evolution of a young player !

CatsMeow
05-27-2007, 11:01 AM
The USTA is starting their national program at the Evert Academy this fall. If I had a talented junior, I would seriously be looking into that. They will be offering the total package (stroke developement, mental, nutritional, and tournament schedule management). I think the risk of injury is too great to go it alone. With that being said......Best of Luck to your daughter and welcome to Florida.

Ultra2HolyGrail
05-31-2007, 01:35 PM
She needs better coaching. She is serving screwballs insted of curveballs, as in baseball. Whoever is coaching her now needs to be fired. She's pretty much doing what she wants to do..all self taught.

iluvtennistoo
05-31-2007, 05:10 PM
I seen this girl play in Ga last year around July in the Georgia Games. She was playing in the 10's. It just wasn’t fair I think she won it pretty easily. For such a young girl she stood out a lot of people were watching her including me and my 12 year old son was playing in the same tourney. I wouldn’t want to be this kid because its like a catch 22 if she plays kids her age it looks too easy, and if she plays older kids she might struggle because to me she was really aggressive and they might be ale to outsmart her right now. Her serve toss was really high back then but it looks like she's got that fixed. If you seen her play in person I doubt you guys would be thinking she needed a new coach. Georgia has some really solid juniors her age who are fundamentally sound, and it didn’t matter she was just more explosive from what I seen they didn’t have a chance. I never seen anything like it personally. I think rankings can be misleading because in order to qualify for national tourneys you have to have a high sectional standing, and in order to get a high sectional standing you have to play a lot of tourneys. If you are African American you can get grants and stuff ,but then they typically give them to players who play a lot and are showing a commitment towards junior tennis. How do we know if this family can afford to play the amount of tourneys to even get grant help? I seen her live and you wouldn’t be talking about she needs coaching. You would be saying who’s her coach, but I guess she coaches herself to a certain extent. That’s my two cents.

Ultra2HolyGrail
05-31-2007, 05:35 PM
Sure she stands out right now, at 10-11. Even with a totally wrong serve grip, very questionable backhand grip, looks undecided whether to hit a one or two hander, i dont find it hard to believe she can beat other 10yr olds quite easily right now. She's much more powerfull but i would not say this will continue if she dont get some serious changes. Some very bad habits that have already formed that needs to be fixed. No direspect to her dad, but his advice as she's serving, and hitting groundstrokes, is pretty useless and doing her no good. She needs a top pro to be helping her.

35ft6
05-31-2007, 11:28 PM
I seen this girl play in Ga last year around July in the Georgia Games. She was playing in the 10's. It just wasn’t fair I think she won it pretty easily. For such a young girl she stood out a lot of people were watching her including me and my 12 year old son was playing in the same tourney. I wouldn’t want to be this kid because its like a catch 22 if she plays kids her age it looks too easy, and if she plays older kids she might struggle because to me she was really aggressive and they might be ale to outsmart her right now. Her serve toss was really high back then but it looks like she's got that fixed. If you seen her play in person I doubt you guys would be thinking she needed a new coach. Georgia has some really solid juniors her age who are fundamentally sound, and it didn’t matter she was just more explosive from what I seen they didn’t have a chance. I never seen anything like it personally. I think rankings can be misleading because in order to qualify for national tourneys you have to have a high sectional standing, and in order to get a high sectional standing you have to play a lot of tourneys. If you are African American you can get grants and stuff ,but then they typically give them to players who play a lot and are showing a commitment towards junior tennis. How do we know if this family can afford to play the amount of tourneys to even get grant help? I seen her live and you wouldn’t be talking about she needs coaching. You would be saying who’s her coach, but I guess she coaches herself to a certain extent. That’s my two cents. What's up, Damon? It's interesting that even as a "new" poster, he's saying the same talking points: if you saw her in person...

DamonK
06-01-2007, 11:42 AM
www.youtube.com/cantmisskid

SilverBullet
06-01-2007, 01:33 PM
This is very interesting that
1. you said that you're not the good player, but you seem to think that you know more about tennis than the true experts and coaches.
2. you've been saying 2-2 2-2 2-2 shes has a 2-2 against older players, but you make it seem like she never loses, (this is only 4 matches) and you argue with everyone that puts a record of a loss in front of you.

Deja is truly talented if she can imitate players on tv(except for the form for some peculiar reason), she seems to be extremely fit for a 11 year old so that is amazing too. She also seems to be very consistent with some nice contacts. Keep working on her game, I say that she has a chance to be great.

btw I also have a similiar ability to imitate other players like Deja does(except I copy form and style),it is a good thing and also very useful too.

GRANITECHIEF
06-01-2007, 03:46 PM
Can Deja imitate the serve of the players on TV? She sure didn't learn that shot on TV.

I absolutely agree that she has amazing athleticism and movement and good groundies (sometimes it looks like Youzhny is in between a 1 and 2 hander on the backhand). But for goodness sakes, teach that girl to serve with an eastern backhand grip in addition to her worst-hack-at-the-public-facility forehand inside out slice serve. Then when she decides to change it up, it will be like her oppenent is suddenly facing an ambidextrous player that can serve either righty or lefty. That would rock.

She's gonna get whooped, err be limited, if you don't fix her serve. Good luck.

tennisace432
06-01-2007, 04:00 PM
damonk, some of the posters here like 35ft have brought up some good points that deserve some attention. your daughters strokes are not fundamentally sound and under pressure (real pressure, playing up is not really pressure in my opionion) the strokes will fall apart. im sure you can agree say if your daughter was playing the national open her same age group against another girl of similar level, the girl with the most solid and technically sound strokes will win.

i am a junior player myself playing tournaments in the higher age groups, and i know these things. if you wanted to win at a young age keep doing what your doing, all you need is a western grip, hit high loopy shots and your set. i totally agree with you in fact, damonk, im sure your daughter is strong and athletic but were talking about 3-4-5 years from now, the kids will hit harder for sure, and it will be even more vital to have fundamentally sound strokes. don't try to play against odds. if you look at all the pros they all have similar fundamentals that your daughter needs to have.

jansilvatennis
06-02-2007, 04:29 PM
Technique is the most important element, for a kid who isn't super athletic. I afree with Damonk in some respects of what he is saying. Jan and his older brother are being brought along by some highly technical coaches...but a super athlete who shows up with the mindset of doing personal injury to you in any sport with the belief in his or her own weapons is an intangible that is not to be taken lightly. Every pro hits the ball differently and plays a different style of play...that is why tennis is an amazing sport.
Good luck to Deja...and her family!

35ft6
06-02-2007, 05:20 PM
Whats up 35 youre too funny with your accusations. Hey guys if there is any supportive mentioning of African American, or any black slang dialect 35 will assume it is me. What "black slang?"If she can dominate girls(her age/close to her age) now because of her power, and if she is getting smart enough to beat the old girls now. What happens when she is all grown up and and she is one of the most athletic and smartest players?Why don't you take her to an academy? I'm sure if she's as good and dominant as you claim, they'll give her a scholarship.

35ft6
06-02-2007, 05:26 PM
Every pro hits the ball differently and plays a different style of play...that is why tennis is an amazing sport.99.99% of pros have the same fundamentals. 99.99% of pros serve with a continental or eastern backhand grip. We're not talking about the little idiosyncrasies that players invariably develop on their strokes, we're talking about the fundamentals. If you want to teach a kid to volley like Mac, with a drooping wrist and barely any knee bend, then go for it. You know, there's high school drop outs who become successful business people, but that's not to say that you should take your children out of school so they have a greater chance of success. Some people make it despite some disadvantages, but it's strange because in this case, the disadvantage is completely avoidable, yet the father insists on heading straight towards the iceberg.

DamonK, take it as a compliment. Most of us are still posting because there's a child involve, and we're hoping to help her. If you posted videos of yourself and started defending your forehand serving grip, people would have given up immediately and this thread would have been inactive for weeks already.

iplaybetter
06-02-2007, 07:15 PM
that racket looks massive

BeachTennis
06-02-2007, 08:21 PM
The point is that there is some great super slow motion video out there and I believe that coaches today are misleading young players

The longer a player can get the strings to face the target the better the swing path

How many degrees wide is the singles court (?) to play with.

Yet we see so many swings that are 180 to 270 degrees of wrist and body

Why teach a player to make so many adjustments?

It is the way with the least amount of adjustments.

It is not any coach’s theories or concepts that dictate what happens to a tennis ball when hit with a racket.

It comes down to the basic physical laws and the dimensions of the court.

PS: keep the wrist firm and bend at the elbow when the hand is well above the contact point. this is true relaxation.


Technique is the most important element, for a kid who isn't super athletic. I afree with Damonk in some respects of what he is saying. Jan and his older brother are being brought along by some highly technical coaches...but a super athlete who shows up with the mindset of doing personal injury to you in any sport with the belief in his or her own weapons is an intangible that is not to be taken lightly. Every pro hits the ball differently and plays a different style of play...that is why tennis is an amazing sport.
Good luck to Deja...and her family!

Jan first showed up on the video tour on www.tennisteacher.com

Killer player!

love to see a kid love the game!

How is France!!

Some nice tips from fortune cookie!!:)



Stretching, relaxing, centering and visualization.

Utilizing breath through movement.

Understanding one's primitive reactions and how to anticipate - set - and recover.

The syncopation and improvisation of rhythmic movement as it pertains to ground strokes and volleys.

The discovery of how each stroke has its own musical and rhythmic movement.

Learning strokes through easy, natural body mechanics.

Maximizing one's potential in competitive situations.

Discovering the art and FUN of tennis.

The seven basic fundamental ingredients for maximizing performance and gaining mastery in competitive situations are:

The more at ease you are (within yourself) the better you perform

There is no such thing as failure, each ball is an experiment (feedback for your next shot).

The person on the other side is your partner, not your enemy (learning how to get out of your fight or flight mechanisms).

Sports is a journey of growth and consciousness (beyond end score mentalities, beyond conditioned responses).

Sports at its elemental level is meditation, learning how to stay present moment to moment.

The objective is to play well to win, the goal is to stay in the process of the moment. You cannot control the objective or outcome, all you can control is your attitude, your focus and your commitment to the present moment.

If you lose, you think you are a second class person. If you win you think you are the greatest. The reality is, you are never as bad as you think you are when you lose, and never as good as you think you are when you win.


http://www.jansilvatennis.com/bio.html

topspin_17
06-04-2007, 03:21 AM
she is definitely not ten years old. looks more like 13-14, she looks too mature.

jansilvatennis
06-08-2007, 02:26 AM
There is no cookie cutter stroke technique factory that pumps out professional looking strokes. You wouldnt teach anyone John McEnroes Volley's but you would love to take his grand slam trophies??? Federer plays with classic strokes and superb athleticism and he is the antithesis of the argument...but to say Nadals strokes or fundamentals who you wouldnt teach to anyone either are 99.99% similar to Federers is not right. Have you ever heard the name Veli Paloheimo FIN? This guy was top 50 in the world and if you watch him play you would vomit as his fundamentals and strokes were like no one elses. He lost 7-5 in the 5th of the US OPen Quarters to Edberg years ago. Brad Gilbert was amazed that any shot that he hit landed in the court. I think the issue that you would want to worry about is what with the technique that is being used can cause some sort of physical damage to her body. Causing her to miss some time from the sport as a result of that??? Nadal is a beast and at 20 has 20 more titles than Federer at 20...Strokes totally different...styles of play totally different. Again Damon is doing what he feels is right for his daughter...he will find the good path and she will be one of the worlds top players.

NLBwell
06-08-2007, 01:19 PM
After reading this whole thread, here are my thoughts:
1) Deja is a very talented girl - there are thousands of girls that talented at that age around the world and as girls grow and develop Deja may very well not be quicker, faster, and more athletic than everyone else as she gets to the later teens. 15-5 in the 10's is no Andrea Jager-type numbers (who was winning 13 national championships in the 16's and 18's when she was 10-13 and turned pro by the time she was 14).
2) Deja seems to have a love for the game and seems mentally strong for someone who is 10 years old - she stays focused for long periods of time. This could be her greatest long-term strength.
3) She needs a top quality pro to work on her strokes. The Williams sisters were taught by the very best - Macci and others. You don't have to go to a tennis academy, but you need to get help from very good professionals.


3a --- Her groundstrokes look good - her combination 1 and 2 handed topspin backhand should develop into one or the other - she looks to me like a more natural one-hander who held the racket with 2 when she was little because of the weight of the racket. (She looks a bit like Henin on the BH, maybe she should try to copy her). Still, I can't really tell this with just a couple of video clips. She needs to pick one or the other within the next year or two.

3b --- Her serve is biomechanically very ugly - I'm not just talking about the grip. She is not efficient in her movement - she doesn't use her hips and trunk enough, she falls off to the side, her upper body comes through too fast, and she puts too much force on her arm which could cause shoulder injuries, she also seems to torque her elbow a bit unnecessarily.

3c --- She needs a Continental grip, not just on the serve, but on the volleys and specialty shots. She didn't look like she was comfortable volleying, letting short balls bounce instead of volleying.

4) Deja gets A's in school. This is most important - it shows she can be successful in life no matter what tennis has in store for her

5) On taking advice from these boards - There are posters here who are much more qualified than the pro who was giving the testimonials on the video and there are posters here who know almost nothing. I have taught tennis for several years and as an engineer have a great interest in the biomechanics of tennis. There are people here who are serious pros you can learn from - I don't know which are which, however.

35ft6
06-08-2007, 03:51 PM
There is no cookie cutter stroke technique factory that pumps out professional looking strokes. You wouldnt teach anyone John McEnroes Volley's but you would love to take his grand slam trophies??? I'm talking about fundamentals.Federer plays with classic strokes and superb athleticism and he is the antithesis of the argument... Antithesis of what argument?I think the issue that you would want to worry about is what with the technique that is being used can cause some sort of physical damage to her body. Causing her to miss some time from the sport as a result of that??? Nadal is a beast and at 20 has 20 more titles than Federer at 20...Strokes totally different...styles of play totally different. I'm talking about fundamentals. Idiosyncrasies are inevitable. But they should develop out of solid fundamentals like good footwork, shoulder turn, an efficient kinetic chain, etc. All pros have this.Again Damon is doing what he feels is right for his daughter...he will find the good path and she will be one of the worlds top players. Damon is being stubborn. She needs to at least change her serve grip.

Katlion
11-02-2007, 01:30 PM
You guys!! Shut up. If you think she's so great, that meas you have never seen someone by the name of Jessica Breytburg. OK, so she is 11, but she would CRUSH this jones girl.

www.eosports.org. look under athletes.