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View Full Version : Has the K Factor Killed Federer's Forehand


ej
05-19-2007, 07:17 AM
Federer's forehand -- on hard&Clay-- has not consistently been what it was with the nCode. Has the K Factor killed it.

STRman
05-19-2007, 07:32 AM
It sure does seem like his demise started right after he switched racquets. I believe he won the Aussie with the K but even there he seemed to be framing more balls than usual.

Mick
05-19-2007, 07:39 AM
I am sure Federer is taking steps to put his game back on track. I don't know if he will be successful but I am sure he has a plan. Fed seems like a pretty smart guy when you hear him talk in the press interviews and smart guys would always have a plan to set things right :)

DRtenniS1112
05-19-2007, 07:40 AM
Come on guys do we really believe Federer has switched racquets or just paint.

hummer23
05-19-2007, 07:47 AM
Come on guys do we really believe Federer has switched racquets or just paint.

well the commercial said . . . (lol)

BigServer1
05-19-2007, 08:00 AM
First off he never played with the nCode, and he never switched to the KFactor.

Second, see Australian Open 2007.

abenguyen
05-19-2007, 08:02 AM
its not the racquet...

Mick
05-19-2007, 08:09 AM
its not the racquet...

Serena Williams said tennis is 80% mental and 20% physical. They add up to 100% -- no percentage left for the racquet :)

LarougeNY
05-19-2007, 08:31 AM
I think its either
1. Not the racket
or
2. Fed, like Haas, is sensitive to the pj, and he doesn't like this kfactor PJ

mJeez4293
05-19-2007, 08:41 AM
if serena said it then it must be true

thefan
05-19-2007, 09:10 AM
First off he never played with the nCode, and he never switched to the KFactor.

Second, see Australian Open 2007.

Well what racquet is federer using all along?

BkK_b0y14
05-19-2007, 09:58 AM
^^^^ i bet BigServer1 is gonna say a ps90

BreakPoint
05-19-2007, 10:30 AM
Well what racquet is federer using all along?
He's been using what is essentially a K90 since 2002. So, no, he didn't switch to a K-Factor this year because he switched to it 5 years ago. Only now is Wilson selling this racquet to the public and calling it a "K-Factor" and claiming it has some fictitious "[K]arophite" technology in it.

ollinger
05-19-2007, 10:34 AM
Wilson's purchase of the nano technology used in the n and K racquets was reported in The Wall Street Journal (I believe, or possibly the business section of the NY Times) well after 2002, perhaps 2004, after which they apparently developped its use in racquets.

BreakPoint
05-19-2007, 10:39 AM
Wilson's purchase of the nano technology used in the n and K racquets was reported in The Wall Street Journal (I believe, or possibly the business section of the NY Times) well after 2002, perhaps 2004 or 2005, after which they developped its use for racquets.
I don't recall seeing the article (I've subscribed to the WSJ for 20 years) but if that's true, it would corroborate what I'm saying - that the K90 contains no nCode nor [K]arophite Black since Federer's been using it since 2002.

BreakPoint
05-19-2007, 10:43 AM
Wilson's purchase of the nano technology used in the n and K racquets was reported in The Wall Street Journal (I believe, or possibly the business section of the NY Times) well after 2002, perhaps 2004, after which they apparently developped its use in racquets.
Well, it must have been well before 2004, since the nCode line was released in the spring of 2004 (Federer first used in at the '04 French Open) so Wilson must have been working with the nCode technology at least a year before that at a minimum.

sureshs
05-19-2007, 12:03 PM
Serena Williams said tennis is 80% mental and 20% physical. They add up to 100% -- no percentage left for the racquet :)

But ....... she switched racquets!

tintin
05-19-2007, 01:10 PM
it's not the racquet

BreakPoint
05-19-2007, 01:24 PM
But ....... she switched racquets!
Yes, she sure did. She finally wised up and switched to something smaller. :D

drakulie
05-19-2007, 01:24 PM
Federer's forehand -- on hard&Clay-- has not consistently been what it was with the nCode. Has the K Factor killed it.

yes. In fact, since January 1st of this year I have yet to see him hit a forehand that goes in.

@wright
05-19-2007, 01:53 PM
These idiotic posts are just getting sooooo over the top. The man wins a slam WITHOUT DROPPING A SET! He goes through a bad patch for 2 months, and next thing you know, he's washed up, his "new" racquet is to blame, he's having the worst year ever, etc....I WISH I could have had as bad a year as Roger Federer!!!! In fact, none of us will EVER have as good a year as Federer has had already, and yet people are feeling sorry for him! Unbelievable! He has never started the year by winning a slam without dropping a set, so one could argue that, in the grand scheme of things, he is having his BEST year ever...Did anyone actually watch his matches at the AO after his shaky first couple of matches? He played unbelievably well, just ask Andy Roddick or Gonzo...Never underestimate human stupidity...

pow
05-19-2007, 02:18 PM
I think there is some change that seems to be throwing him off whether it be the racquet or just pj distracting him, he has not been playing anything like he was last year.

BreakPoint
05-19-2007, 05:56 PM
I think there is some change that seems to be throwing him off whether it be the racquet or just pj distracting him, he has not been playing anything like he was last year.
What's been throwing him off is people like Canas (who was not around last year) and Nadal (nothing new there).

Fries-N-Gravy
05-19-2007, 06:38 PM
tennis is 100% racquet, sq in = %, right now he's at 90%. i believe he was using a 100 sq in head before, it was just a very long racquet and looked like it had a small head.

vince916
05-19-2007, 07:15 PM
Even at the AO he had a lot of errors on his forehand side.

drakulie
05-19-2007, 07:50 PM
Here are the numbers from the Moya/Fed match.

Shanks:
Fed: 4 FH, 3 BH= 7 total
Moya: 7 FH, 2 BH= 9 total

Winners
Fed: 23 FH, 7 BH = 30 total
Moya: 12 FH, 5 BH= 17 total


and by the way, Moya lost with a larger frame.

Should Moya switch from his Babolat to something larger? :roll:

BounceHitBounceHit
05-19-2007, 07:56 PM
I think there is some change that seems to be throwing him off whether it be the racquet or just pj distracting him, he has not been playing anything like he was last year.

No offense to anyone, but PLEASE repeat after me:

"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"

;)

CC

BounceHitBounceHit
05-19-2007, 07:57 PM
Here are the numbers from the Moya/Fed match.

Shanks:
Fed: 4 FH, 3 BH= 7 total
Moya: 7 FH, 2 BH= 9 total

Winners
Fed: 23 FH, 7 BH = 30 total
Moya: 12 FH, 5 BH= 17 total


and by the way, Moya lost with a larger frame.

Should Moya switch from his Babolat to something larger? :roll:

Or to something smaller??.................. ;) CC

psamp14
05-19-2007, 08:57 PM
No offense to anyone, but PLEASE repeat after me:

"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"

;)

CC

"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
"It's not the racquet"
.......


its not the racquet


just kidding...of course its not the racquet...with federer its all mental and confidence

psamp14
05-19-2007, 08:59 PM
tennis is 100% racquet, sq in = %, right now he's at 90%. i believe he was using a 100 sq in head before, it was just a very long racquet and looked like it had a small head.

WOW.....lol

crazylevity
05-19-2007, 11:11 PM
He's been using what is essentially a K90 since 2002. So, no, he didn't switch to a K-Factor this year because he switched to it 5 years ago. Only now is Wilson selling this racquet to the public and calling it a "K-Factor" and claiming it has some fictitious "[K]arophite" technology in it.

BP, with all due respect, I understand your train of thought, but I can't help feeling that people misunderstand when you say this. Rather, the first customized PS Tour 90 that Federer has been using since 2002 has finally been released as the K-Factor. Or at least, stng similar to what Fed and Wilson worked out in 2002. To say that he has been using a K-Factor since 2002 causes some people to misunderstand.

That's what I think, with the confused responses you get.

BreakPoint
05-20-2007, 12:29 AM
BP, with all due respect, I understand your train of thought, but I can't help feeling that people misunderstand when you say this. Rather, the first customized PS Tour 90 that Federer has been using since 2002 has finally been released as the K-Factor. Or at least, stng similar to what Fed and Wilson worked out in 2002. To say that he has been using a K-Factor since 2002 causes some people to misunderstand.

That's what I think, with the confused responses you get.
I think you're right that some people are probably confused when I say that Federer has been using the K-Factor since 2002. Perhaps people need to stop thinking in marketing terms and realize that Federer's K90 is not new but has been around for 5 years. The only thing that's new is the new paintjob that Wilson gives it every few years. The retail racquets have been different, but not the racquet that Federer has been using.

Maybe this is a better way to explain it:

1. Federer has been using the same racquet since 2002.

2. In 2007, Wilson decided to release this racquet that Federer has been using for 5 years to the public and gave it the name "K-Factor".

3. During this 5 year period, Wilson released two other racquet models to the public which Federer never used on tour. The first was the PS Tour 90 and the second was the nCode 90.

4. During this same 5 year period, Federer's racquet was first painted to look like a PS Tour 90 and then painted to look like a nCode 90. Now it's painted to look like a K90, just like the regular retail version.

Batoussai
05-20-2007, 02:03 AM
And the winner for most pointless thread in the category of Pro's Equipment is...

Idiot, it's a paintjob!!! Like anything could kill Federer's Forehand. Even with a baseballbat it would be brilliant!

equinox
05-20-2007, 03:18 AM
It's obvious fellas. The K-Factor paintjob is too demanding for federer.

drakulie
05-20-2007, 07:12 AM
Should Nadal switch to a larger frame???

SHANKS
Fed: 1 FH, 2BH= 3 total
Nadal: 4 FH, 1 BH = 5 total

WINNERS
Fed: 15 FH, 2 BH= 17 total
Nadal: 5 FH, 5BH= 10 total

BAGELS
Fed= zero
Nadal= one

JayxTheKoolest
05-20-2007, 07:35 AM
Serena Williams said tennis is 80% mental and 20% physical. They add up to 100% -- no percentage left for the racquet :)

The racket is a part of the mental aspect...

Mick
05-20-2007, 07:52 AM
here is the source for that SW quote:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010628/ai_n14399273

"But every now and then there might be that player out there that has more finesse. Finesse is still important. But tennis is 80 per cent mental, 20 per cent physical, that's my personal opinion."

-- SW

swedechris
05-20-2007, 07:57 AM
kfactor ncode hyper hammer etc racket has nothing to do with it.. today he beat nadal on clay and his forehand + rest of game was as clean as can be after the 1st set..

knasty131
05-20-2007, 08:31 PM
I think an inward lack of confidence is what killed his confidence...did anyone notice how after the results of his 2nd set today, his confidence raised (due to the though that he might be able to take nadal) and then we got to see the "old" Fed...

paulfreda
05-20-2007, 09:26 PM
..... and then we got to see the "old" Fed...

Old Fed ?
I don't think Fed or anyone else ever played 2 sets more superbly than Roger's performance yesterday in Hamburg. He was hitting corners, ripping winners, returning service as good or better than he ever has in his career.
It was a thing of beauty.

Kirko
05-21-2007, 04:49 PM
Federer's forehand -- on hard&Clay-- has not consistently been what it was with the nCode. Has the K Factor killed it.

he's in a blue funk period. he ain't bulletproof. there are a good players with the CONFIDENCE to really enjoy the chance to try to beat him instead of genuflecting to him.

superstition
05-21-2007, 06:08 PM
Should Nadal switch to a larger frame???

SHANKS
Fed: 1 FH, 2BH= 3 total
Nadal: 4 FH, 1 BH = 5 total

WINNERS
Fed: 15 FH, 2 BH= 17 total
Nadal: 5 FH, 5BH= 10 total

BAGELS
Fed= zero
Nadal= one
Nadal did not play at his normal level in the final. In fact, he looked tired against Hewitt. Federer should never be able to get a 6-0 score against Nadal on clay if Nadal is playing at his normal level. On grass, I can see it.

drakulie
05-21-2007, 06:16 PM
^^^ If he was tired, then he needs to switch to a lighter, larger frame.

superstition
05-21-2007, 06:23 PM
^^^ If he was tired, then he needs to switch to a lighter, larger frame.
It would be more advisable to switch to a style of play that doesn't require as much energy expenditure. Nadal seemed more tired after mostly two-set matches than Federer did after mostly three-setters.

Of course, it's silly to suggest that he change his style, as it's not very feasible. I suppose he could try to get even better at using the net to keep points shorter, but it seems like he's already trying to add more net to his game.

drakulie
05-21-2007, 06:27 PM
^^^ Agreed. But a racquet change would also be in order.

Fries-N-Gravy
05-21-2007, 06:35 PM
there's always some excuse when someone loses. Nadal looked tired, Fed's racquet is too big, etc... Fact is Fed finally beat him on clay and its hard for some people to accept because they think just because they are fans of Nadal they absorb his coolness and are somehow his kin.

Chang looked pretty tired at the french in 89. thats really not an excuse. a loss is a loss.

Mick
05-21-2007, 06:36 PM
It would be more advisable to switch to a style of play that doesn't require as much energy expenditure. Nadal seemed more tired after mostly two-set matches than Federer did after mostly three-setters.

I think it's partly because Nadal would grunt on every single point. I believe grunting would use up some of his energy. I remember watching the first round match at the AO where Sharapova was completely exhausted. She had to stop grunting to save her energy.

Federer, on the other hand, is very efficient in his stroke production and he doesn't grunt.

drakulie
05-21-2007, 06:43 PM
Federer, on the other hand, is very efficient in his stroke production and he doesn't grunt.

He also does not use a racquet that limits him, and tires him out in the third set.

Mick
05-21-2007, 06:57 PM
He also does not use a racquet that limits him, and tires him out in the third set.

haha. I don't know if Nadal had switched racquets while winning those 81 matches. Seems to me that is a pretty good racquet. The problem is when Federer is on his game, it's pretty hard for anyone to beat him :)

drakulie
05-21-2007, 07:00 PM
Mick, I'm just teasing and rubbing the racquet argument in certain peoples faces.

@wright
05-21-2007, 07:57 PM
Nadal should change to a racquet with a shorter pallet, clearly that would help his inside out slice forehand lob. Don't even get me started on how a new butt cap would transform his game.

Doc Hollidae
05-21-2007, 09:08 PM
If it hasn't been said already.

The racket doesn't make the player. The player makes the racket.

pham4313
05-21-2007, 09:38 PM
Nadal should change to a racquet with a shorter pallet, clearly that would help his inside out slice forehand lob. Don't even get me started on how a new butt cap would transform his game.

he would lose badly actually cuz he wouldnt get to pick it often anymore

AlpineCadet
05-21-2007, 09:43 PM
I think you're right that some people are probably confused when I say that Federer has been using the K-Factor since 2002. Perhaps people need to stop thinking in marketing terms and realize that Federer's K90 is not new but has been around for 5 years. The only thing that's new is the new paintjob that Wilson gives it every few years. The retail racquets have been different, but not the racquet that Federer has been using.

Maybe this is a better way to explain it:

1. Federer has been using the same racquet since 2002.

2. In 2007, Wilson decided to release this racquet that Federer has been using for 5 years to the public and gave it the name "K-Factor".

3. During this 5 year period, Wilson released two other racquet models to the public which Federer never used on tour. The first was the PS Tour 90 and the second was the nCode 90.

4. During this same 5 year period, Federer's racquet was first painted to look like a PS Tour 90 and then painted to look like a nCode 90. Now it's painted to look like a K90, just like the regular retail version.

Of course, Federer using the k90 all along is JUST BREAKPOINT'S OPINION since he has no factual basis to prove his statement. Breakpoint is only going by what others (including himself) have commented on while playing with the k90 vs the original ps85.

I honestly believe the k90 has less ball feel than the original PS85 by a large margin, and that Federer has been using the original PS85 composite in a the Wilson Tour 90 mold.

Roger Federer is probably still using what he loves best, but in a bigger headsize. Ball feel is everything, and that's what the original pro staff 85 was all about.

BreakPoint
05-21-2007, 11:19 PM
I do know one thing for sure. Federer never switched to and then from the nCode 90 to or from a K90. The two racquets are so different that there's no way he could have switched between one to the other without messing up his strokes and his game, and needing a long period of down time to adjust between the two. The same could be said between the PS Tour 90 and the nCode 90. This makes it pretty obvious to me that he's been using the same racquet since 2002, whatever you may believe that racquet to be. I happen to believe that it's a modified K90.

AlpineCadet
05-21-2007, 11:23 PM
I agree that the racket Federer has been using since 2002 is probably the same racket that he is still currently using, but the difference between speculation lies in what we think he actually uses. PST90, PS85, N90, K90.. it's all speculation. But what he HAS used is the ps85, which is what won him the Wimbledon title against Pete Sampras.

BTW Breakpoint, you need to include a disclaimer when you make those kinds of blatant statements. Because two posters in this one thread have had to comment on your statements being misleading. Please try not to confuse the general public into following your misguides.

AlpineCadet
05-21-2007, 11:28 PM
Personal opinion or not, it's confusing. Just refer to post #31 (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1456289&postcount=31)
if you have any comments on this subject of misinterpretation. Thanks.

BreakPoint
05-21-2007, 11:31 PM
This is an open forum for people to express their opinions. What people choose to believe or not to believe is totally up to them. Sorry, but it's really not my problem.

I stand by my statement that I believe Federer has been using what is essentially now known as a K90 since 2002.

AlpineCadet
05-21-2007, 11:38 PM
This is an open forum for people to express their opinions. What people choose to believe or not to believe is totally up to them. Sorry, but it's really not my problem.

I stand by my statement that I believe Federer has been using what is essentially now known as a K90 since 2002.

I agree that Federer has been using the same racket since 2002, but that's not the point. It's one thing to believe in something, but it is something totally different when you make misleading statements. And that was just an FYI.. no harm intended. So don't "breakpoint" me, as how you normally would when someone contradicts you.

AlpineCadet
05-21-2007, 11:41 PM
He's been using what is essentially a K90 since 2002. So, no, he didn't switch to a K-Factor this year because he switched to it 5 years ago. Only now is Wilson selling this racquet to the public and calling it a "K-Factor" and claiming it has some fictitious "[K]arophite" technology in it.

How misleading was that unsupported statement?

BreakPoint
05-21-2007, 11:50 PM
How misleading was that unsupported statement?
How is it "misleading" when that's what I believe? :confused:

If I didn't believe in God and I said - "There is no God", would you call that "misleading"? Is what I said going to change anyone else's opinion on God? :confused:

AlpineCadet
05-22-2007, 12:04 AM
How is it "misleading" when that's what I believe? :confused:

If I didn't believe in God and I said - "There is no God", would you call that "misleading"? Is what I said going to change anyone else's opinion on God? :confused:

Are you joking? You obviously know what's going on.

That's quite a metaphor to use, since it is in your favor, but this has no relevance to the topic. So I will not participate in this debate. Thank you. (You can email if you want to debate this topic.)

BreakPoint
05-22-2007, 12:30 AM
That's quite a metaphor to use, since it is in your favor, but this has no relevance to the topic.
What has no relevance to the topic is all your nonsense and your constant criticism of me.

State what you believe about Federer's racquet and please leave me out of it.

knasty131
05-22-2007, 10:24 AM
Old Fed ?
I don't think Fed or anyone else ever played 2 sets more superbly than Roger's performance yesterday in Hamburg. He was hitting corners, ripping winners, returning service as good or better than he ever has in his career.
It was a thing of beauty.

did you not read my full post??? i was talking about how well he played against nadal once he believed he could win...

tennisplayer
05-22-2007, 01:00 PM
Okay, I've been goaded into getting my beliefs out into the open now!

1. The racquets and customizations used by top pros are mildly interesting, but have NOTHING to do with what's good for you!

2. For that matter, the optimal racquet for each person will be different... we don't care too much about making these fine adjustments, but since pros make a living off tennis, they absolutely have to do so!

3. The racquet makes one hell of a big difference to a pro's game. It is the player, alright, but it's also the racquet. That said, a pro can beat an amateur with any stick any time any place, but most likely not another pro!

4. Big head, small head... just pick the racquet you are most comfortable with. If it turns out to be a racquet with a big head, please don't let the big head on your neck get in the way of the right choice!

5. Same deal with weight and SW - go by feel rather than by numbers. What you'll end up choosing will depend on your physical makeup, conditioning and style of game.

So there... :-)

ayoPATRICIO
05-22-2007, 01:17 PM
Nadal did not play at his normal level in the final. In fact, he looked tired against Hewitt. Federer should never be able to get a 6-0 score against Nadal on clay if Nadal is playing at his normal level. On grass, I can see it.

how do you explain the first set in last year's French? huh?

linkster3o3
05-22-2007, 04:31 PM
So, the K factor is the actual racket that Federer is using and we can now finally purchase it? Wilson is actually making it available to the public? What ever happen to the hypothesis or theory that his real racket is a 88 sq in and not a 90?

AlpineCadet
05-22-2007, 04:35 PM
Try reading through this whole thread, because we've already covered that topic. ;)

What I personally believe is that Federer has been using the same stick since 2002. But which racket composite he is using is debatable, so don't let anyone tell you otherwise, because we're all still guessing.

linkster3o3
05-22-2007, 04:56 PM
So does anybody on this message board know the person or company that bought Roger Federer's winning racket from e.b.a.y.? Only if he/they was a tennis enthusiast that spends his days on TalkTennis Warehouse.

AlpineCadet
05-22-2007, 05:01 PM
My common sense would say that he has stuck by his Original ProStaff 85 heritage, but had only updated his racket headsize (up to 90.) Which would you rather prefer, a retail k90 open for sale to the public, or the ps85 composite put into the Tour 90 mold?

linkster3o3
05-22-2007, 05:24 PM
Personally, I agree with you too that the racket Federer is using only has the mold of a tour 90, but the same or similar composition as the 85. It is a big difference switching from anything that does not resemble the 85 in feel and comfort, and I do not believe Federer can afford such a change in his game back in 2002.