Serve and Volley

[Illegal_edge]

Will Serve and Volley tactics ever be popular again? Just like fashions and trends, tennis is having a resurgence of the serve and volley player. Ok, maybe not a true serve and volley player but an all-court player that takes advantage of chipping and charging, comeing in on short balls and making the winning volley. This was most apparent with the #1 man in tennis now, Roger Federer. His go for broke serve and volley tactics in the third set of the Wimbledon final helped him over come Andy Roddick. Had Federer stayed back and traded groundies with Andy he may have lost. Also, at the U.S. Open the Serve and Volley play of Tim Henmen got him into the semifinals. I wish I could see more of these types of players, but sadly, there are only a few in the mens game and hardly, if any, in the womens game.

One player that I think would benefit greatly from coming into the net more often is Andy Roddick. I know its not his type of game but I ask this, If you had a 140 MPH serve, how many times would you come into net and smash off a huge over head or hit a winning volley? You don't even have to have a great volley to come to net and win lots of points. Pete Sampras proved this. He had a great serve but by pro standards his volleys weren't the best ever. Not to knock on Pete's greatness but, he didn't volley like Patrick Rafter or Ivan Lendl. He didn't need too. I am saying this because there are some guys on the tour with MONSTER serves and they don't come in on it. I don't care how good the returners are, if you have a Howitzer for a serve why are you letting the other guy recover and beat you. Look at Ivo Karlovic (I hope i'm spelling that right) who, last year at Wimbledon, knocked off Llyton Hewitt, one of the best returners and counter punchers, with his powerful serve and volleys. I mean, as hewitt would say, COME ON!

so, what do you think?

[Brettolius]

well, i think pete had way better volleys than lendl to start with, and far superior volleys to roddick (not a knock on roddick, so don't come with the hater crap). but i agree, it would be nice to see some more s & v for sure. its just real hard to do today with the returns being what they are. taylor dent drops big bombs, almost as big as roddick's, but not nearly the success

[Hedges]

At 140 mph, there's no time to come in. Roddick would be hitting the first volley from no-man's land.

--Hedges

[Hedges]

My take is that this movement away from S&V is a trend....a fad.

Borg created the top-spin, baseline fad. Mac shattered that fad with his in-your-face S&V game.

It won't be too long (5 years at most) before an incredible S&V player will hit the scene and bring in-your-face tennis back into vogue.

I can't wait! :-D

[Hedges]

You may be right...but I can dream, can't I???

Come on, NoBadMojo. It's like religion...it makes no sense...so you must have faith to believe there will be a 2nd coming of the S&V superstar

Are the guys out there now the best athletes the world has to offer? Maybe. Maybe not!

What if a new player arrives to the sport that is just hands above the others in raw athletic potential. He's faster, stronger, meaner, and even smarter. He ignores that stupid egoboard (service speed scoreboard) and makes intelligent use of placement, spin and speed (fast *and* slow). He has the grimiest approach shots tennis has ever seen. And he's totally outrageous...in your face...at the net. We've never see such speed to and at the net...

sigh...ok, sounds like a comic strip. I know...it'll never happen. But we've all gotta have dreams...

;-)

[perfmode]

I think all-court is where the game is headed. Soon all top 10 players will be able to do both at will, depending on the opponent. Federer is the first in this new bunch of all-courters. Watch and see.

[Illegal_edge]

I believe that there will be some sort of comeback for the serve and volley player but as Perfmode said, it will be in the form of an all-court player like Federer. However, I STILL believe that players like Fish, Dent or a max miryni will develop their net skills and approach shot and make some sort of run at the big baseliners out there. Besides, if you've never played a serve and volley player, how will you know how to beat them. If everyone is just playing baseline tennis then why not come to the net a give them a drop volley? I've seen some nasty drop volleys that, probaly, even the fastest player can't reach it. Passing someone at the net if they're in a good position is easier said than done. I believe that most people get passed because of either week approaches or there out of position. The return of the serve and volley player is posible, it just not very likely at this time. P.S. I don't believe that racquet tech is to blame for the death of S & V. Most players still use heavy racquets just like back in the day. Most of the racquets have little to no power, just like a wood racquet. and thats my 2¢

[Illegal_edge]

NOBadMojo said
some of the puredrive ranked juniors i work with wont even attemt to learn to volley..i think the trend continues to be skewed even more to baseline unfortunately..i wish it wasnt so.

I believe the entire problem lies right there, no attempt.The reason no one serves and volleys anymore is because no one wants to do it anymore and that a shame. As for all larger size racquets out there, which do you think is used by professional players, a midsize head or an oversize? I highly believe that the better players use a smaller racquet head vs. the oversize.

[Hedges]

What about service return and volley? You know...chip and charge on steroids. Possible?

[Illegal_edge]

lol @ Hedges

Ya, that seems very possible.

[mlee2]

Chip and charge is dead but I see s&v coming back into resurgence eventually.

Serves can get a lot better with a higher spin potential and a moderate speed. Returns might get better but at the pro level, it's near impossible to hit cleanly against a high-kicking serve anyways.

[mlee2]

Edberg and Rafter were hardly known for being A level servers, even in their own respective primes.

When I think about a new level of high kicking/moderate speed serves, I'm thinking along the lines of Sampras' serves or Roddick's 2nd serve.

If a player had the combined talents of one of those guy's serves along with the elite net skills of Edberg, Rafter, or Henman...then that is when you'll see the dominating resurgence of S&V.

Law of averages + tennis evolution says it's bound to happen eventually.

[mlee2]

When Jack Kramer hit the tennis scene in the 40's, the pundits of that time thought that tennis was going to end up in ruins as the backcourt game was slowly devolving (hence no widespread "western strokes"). S&V had dominated for about 30 years with the likes of Laver and Gonzalez. It was only until Lendl and Agassi came into the scene that people saw the fruits of staying at the baseline. There in itself, is an example of tennis cyclicism.

Evolution does not ALWAYS mean cyclical, but tennis had the same rules (more or less) for a century now. What more can be evolved when the same game has been played?

Outside of tennis, people have been turning more to herbs rather than pharmaceuticals to cure their illnesses. Last time I checked, herbs have been used since the beginning of pre-history. It's only now that herbs have hit the mainstream market. Another example of cycles in evolution.

You said it yourself that Edberg and Rafter's serves were getting picked apart towards the end of their respective careers. If their serves really were 'A level,' don't you think it would've held them up as Sampras' serve held him towards the end of his career?

Perhaps, tennis might be all baseline in the future. After all, a good 75% of pros play that type of game. But look at the top. To state the obvious: Federer is as talented as we've seen in a while. It's pretty safe to say at least SOME people growing up with tennis feel the same way. Federer can obvious hang at the net (and will do more if guys can catch up to his backcourt game) and that's always going to influence the up and coming players.

Of course, you think my argument is weak. You obviously don't agree with me so anyone you disagree with has to have a weak argument, right?

[Phil]

I'm not sure S&V will "come back", but how can anyone on this board say they are "Right" in predicting trends and tendencies 30 years into the future?

What I see is a new type of player (not really new, just not so common these days) who has the ability to play at a TOP LEVEL on any part of the court, i.e. an "all courter"-this will be a player with a serve as a weapon, who will be able to easily adapt to different playing styles and court surfaces. As I said, a few of these types have come through the pipeline in recent years, but not so many that could play well on so many levels. Federer is the prototype-the Beta Version. But he may usher in a trend of players, not as multi-talented, but good enough to win in more than one venue, against various styles. I think juniors and coaches, over the next ten years, will get the message that narrow specialization-i.e. "clay courter", "baseliner", "serve and volleyer"-is no longer sufficient for getting the job done during an 11 month, multi-surface schedule.

[dAgEnIuS]

there is a pretty good chance that it will come back...
after all, young guys like Ancic has a good serve and volly game....
one that's even good enough to beat henman at Wimbledon...

[bferris@cardigan.org]

I don't buy into the "conventional wisdom" that a 140-MPH level serve doesn't give you time to get into position for a first volley. When bombs like that do come back over the net, even from professional returners, they are usually returned in a defensive, "happy to just get it in play" fashion, requiring only adequate volleying skills to deal with. Even Agassi and Hewitt don't cream every return.

[equinox]

The Serve and Volley style will make a comeback when donald young hits the big time in 2006.

Mark my words.

[Kobble]

I think full serve and volley will make a comeback. It is just going to take some time. If Ancic makes a run at Federer, people will definitely wake up. Although, I do not feel Ancic is a strict serve&volley player. You may see him do it on tv in his last few outings, but he can hang with anyone from the baseline. The only thing he really lacks is great foot speed, but he can work on that. As far as Roddick goes, I think the best he can hope for is an Ivanisevic net game. Anything that would allow him to clean up easy points efficiently would be a great addition and could potentially give him the edge against Fed. However, we all know the road ahead doesn't look smooth. The guy has less than proficient volleys, and moves in off the serve terribly. The good thing is that Roddick has the monster serve and a pretty strong work ethic. Overall, I think the next two years will be fun to watch.

[K!ck5w3rvE]

At 140 mph, there's no time to come in. Roddick would be hitting the first volley from no-man's land.

--Hedges

If the serve is that good you don't need to hit too many volleys from no-mans-land. Most of the reurns which come back into play are going to be easier volleys, unless he's playing Nadal or Fed.

[Max G.]

but tennis had the same rules (more or less) for a century now. What more can be evolved when the same game has been played?

The rules have stayed the same - but the equipment HAS changed. It's not the same game. The courts are slower now than they used to be - only one of the four majors is on Grass, and the grasscourt season is basically Wimbledon + warmups. And racquets have changed some. So it's not exactly the same game.

I, frankly, have no clue what's gonna happen in the future. I'll keep trying to serve and volley regardless of what the pros do. :P

[AndrewD]

Perhaps another reason for serve and volley not 'coming-back' to be the dominant style is that the swing has been away from nations with a strong tradition in that type of game. With the South Americans and Europeans being particularly strong at present and them brought up on clay it is most likely they will bring with them more of a back court- all court game.

However, i do think the volley itself will play a greater part than it did when tennis started to move away from the traditional 'big game'. Players know that there are a multitude of guys who can hit it hard and be consistant from the back of the court so, rather than condemn themselves to interminable length rallies, they'll be looking to use the volley rather than retreat back behind the baseline. I think they know that, when they get a short ball, they have to knock it off and move forward.

[Gaines Hillix]

edberg and rafter both hit high kicking serves and their serves were getting jumped on towards the end of their careers, and they both had to learn to develop their backcourt games to compete. miryni losing to fish at the DC is a classic example of why serve/volley T cant work on the pro tour and get you near the top...miryni is as good as there is as a serve and volleyer (rangy, closes fast, really good serve, excellent volleyer, quick soft hands) and you saw what happened to him against Fish who isnt one of the top consistent returners on tour. i know that was only one match, but i think you can see what i mean

Agree Ed, but don't you think someone with both the ability to S/V when the situation calls for it that can also play the baseline, aka, Federer has an advantage over a player that is one dimensional? The baseliner who's a great returner of serve may well have an advantage over a player that lives and dies with the S/V game, but IMO Federer proves what an all-courter can do with a balanced set of skills :-) .