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View Full Version : any adults have a pro that is, at times, a real jerk??


lovin'it
05-21-2007, 04:21 PM
THE pro, in this club, not country club, mind you, can be a real jerk, and amazingly, he is booked. The bulk of his students are women over 40, 3.0 to 4.5 at best, and he coaches our team and others. Of his five or six teams, we are one of the lowest levels...3.5 usta. YET, we are the only one that continues to WIN. AND, he can be such a jerk to us...demeaning stares when we miss a feed, today, he threatened push-ups for all of us for 'not getting' what he was saying. Truth is, we get it, we try, we are just not athletically where he expects we should be. We win, we work and play hard, we are respectful, and I am at the point of telling him to KISS my 3.5 ***. We pay him, and I could understand if we treated him like he was a ball machine, just feeding to us, but we really work and are attentive during his 2 hour drill. He get $200 for the 10 of us weekly...my point is, yes, I think I learn more from him than from anyone else I take with...strategy only, no stroke info, but that is tough unless individual or very small group...but, I am SICK of his attitude toward us. It is like he 'shows off', as today there was another team of his on the next court, and he was so abusive in his manner and word....'I just don't know if I care about you guys anymore", 'if you miss a feed, be ready to do laps" exasperated looks when we miss a tough shot, or don't take the ball before the bounce. In truth, he has good stuff, and I know he will fill our spot in no time, I don't know, just wondering if this is the norm?? I can see a hs coach, but, I would love to push him off his high horse, but, he does teach great strategy.

yemenmocha
05-21-2007, 04:46 PM
My head pro doesn't like to be called the head pro. He is the DIRECTOR OF TENNIS and he'll correct you if you introduce him to someone as the head pro. He is reluctant to do lessons and tries to scam us on group lessons (charging the same rate per person, even if more than the usual number shows up - so he often gets $100+ for a group lesson). I quit going.

lovin'it
05-21-2007, 04:55 PM
Yes, I am about ready to do the same, would have sooner, but know my little drop in the bucket matters NOT! Funny, in his little world, he is a big shot, but, really, in the scheme of things, he is just a tennis pro, line him up next to everyone of our husbands, and, not to be tacky, but I am sure he makes much less than the lowest of the bunch. I guess to this little man, this is his revenge....geez, I would HATE to be that mad at the world to have to be such a PR**K in my job ALL DAY LONG. Just hate to continue to feed this little mans world....

cam2
05-21-2007, 06:11 PM
So I would guess that your actually not lovin'it, right?

lovin'it
05-21-2007, 06:31 PM
not lovin' HIM, for sure!

slice bh compliment
05-21-2007, 06:52 PM
My head pro doesn't like to be called the head pro. He is the DIRECTOR OF TENNIS and he'll correct you if you introduce him to someone as the head pro. He is reluctant to do lessons and tries to scam us on group lessons (charging the same rate per person, even if more than the usual number shows up - so he often gets $100+ for a group lesson). I quit going.

Okay, if a guy is title-conscious and money hungry, why the heck is he a teaching pro? Shouldn't he have gone into the corporate world? OR gone to law school or something.

Not to defend a guy who is probably a jerk, but...

maybe he does not want to be confused with one of his employees, who may have the title: Head teaching Pro or Head Pro or something.

Also, often it is a lot tougher to handle a large group than a small group, so a lot of pros have a rate structure that reflects that. In other words, rather than just getting his hourly rate, he charges and deserves more for a bigger group.

slice bh compliment
05-21-2007, 07:07 PM
...In truth, he has good stuff, and I know he will fill our spot in no time, I don't know, just wondering if this is the norm?? I can see a hs coach, but, I would love to push him off his high horse, but, he does teach great strategy.

The more I think about this, the more I've realized that this is one of the most interesting threads to come along in a long time.

Sounds like he knows his tennis, but he's not so good with the interpersonal stuff.

Can you talk to him? Can you be honest with him? Would he take it constructively? Does he realize that even HE is not beyond learning .... and improving?

andymac1
05-21-2007, 07:21 PM
Th pro at our club is just as happy as could be, he's only really serious when he's giving you advice though.

[K]aotic
05-21-2007, 08:03 PM
lol i have a coach who does that, but it gets results out of me... to me thats all that matters. the results.

remember, no pain, no game :D

zapvor
05-21-2007, 08:10 PM
i would look at it in terms of economics. if your gain for going to his sessions outweigh the 'attitude,etc' that he dishes out to you each time you go, then its better to keep going. you are going to improve yourself. however that is unfortunate. i am not sure what i would do myself. i had the best coach. but now no more:(

justinnum1
05-21-2007, 08:59 PM
The director of tennis at our club is the nicest guy in the world. Always making sure everyone is happy and he know everything about tennis. I am blessed.

Fred132
05-21-2007, 09:44 PM
I'm amazed when a tennis pro treats a group of adults like that. As you say, who's paying who?

I can't think of another business in which customers are treated in that manner, but I've seen it happen. But it is definitely not the norm. Personally, I wouldn't put up with it for more than 5 seconds.

lovin'it
05-22-2007, 05:59 AM
to all, NO, he would not respond well to constructive criticism, he would tell you to just leave if you don't work his way....YES, i do learn alot, his attitude does focus me more than just a 'nice guy' pro would....I would just like to tell him that he is an a**h**e, and have it not come from me!! You know??

Yeah, he was showing off yesterday, that he can treat people like **** and they keep coming back for more...and, truth is, I do learn from him, that is why I haven't quit before, and I know he would fill my spot in a minute...oh yes, he is a bit unethical, too, he certainly has clear favorites, doesn't always do what he says he will do...just a real SMALL MAN that must be really unhappy inside to have to 'gain esteem' in this way, just hate to feed it, but in truth, I am the one using him, he thinks he is winning, but I have separated the man from the words, and will have to take what I want out of him, and know, in my heart, that he is a really small man, and in ANY other environment, it would be quite apparent.

spot
05-22-2007, 06:04 AM
It sounds like he is a pro that gets results because he badly wants you to do better. So many pros really just want to be liked and I think it makes them much less effective because of it. Maybe this guy does go too far into the other direction- but as long as he is better than any of your other alternatives then I really don't know what there is to change. He is who he is- and if that makes him a better fit as coach then anyone else you could go with then I guess his behavior is acceptable. Its a self regulating thing- until it gets to the point where people would rather use someone else he has absolutely no reason to change.

Serve em Up
05-22-2007, 06:09 AM
Our club has 4 pro's. They are a variety of ages and have interests in different areas of the game. One is great at explaining technique. One is a lefty and likes to teach kids(privately, small groups and clinincs). One teaches most of the 2.5 women, Two were Division 1 college players who teach most of the high school players. They all talk to each other about the members and coordinate between themselves to give the members constant and consisent advice.

They go out of their way to suggest what members would benfit from hitting together, and help line up matches. They really improve the atmospere of the club.

We are very fortunate.


A pro that is a jerk should not be a teaching pro. Don't hire them under any circumstances. That is different than a pro that is demanding and drives students to be successful. Some students need a JERK to get motivated.

origmarm
05-22-2007, 06:24 AM
Do you have a choice of pros?
Why don't you see if you can all hire the other guy for a group session, I reckon he would get the message pretty quick...
How do the other members of your group feel?

OrangeOne
05-22-2007, 06:34 AM
THE pro, in this club, not country club, mind you, can be a real jerk, and amazingly, he is booked. The bulk of his students are women over 40, 3.0 to 4.5 at best, and he coaches our team and others. Of his five or six teams, we are one of the lowest levels...3.5 usta. YET, we are the only one that continues to WIN. AND, he can be such a jerk to us...demeaning stares when we miss a feed, today, he threatened push-ups for all of us for 'not getting' what he was saying. Truth is, we get it, we try, we are just not athletically where he expects we should be. We win, we work and play hard, we are respectful, and I am at the point of telling him to KISS my 3.5 ***. We pay him, and I could understand if we treated him like he was a ball machine, just feeding to us, but we really work and are attentive during his 2 hour drill. He get $200 for the 10 of us weekly...my point is, yes, I think I learn more from him than from anyone else I take with...strategy only, no stroke info, but that is tough unless individual or very small group...but, I am SICK of his attitude toward us. It is like he 'shows off', as today there was another team of his on the next court, and he was so abusive in his manner and word....'I just don't know if I care about you guys anymore", 'if you miss a feed, be ready to do laps" exasperated looks when we miss a tough shot, or don't take the ball before the bounce. In truth, he has good stuff, and I know he will fill our spot in no time, I don't know, just wondering if this is the norm?? I can see a hs coach, but, I would love to push him off his high horse, but, he does teach great strategy.

So let's get this straight.

He's a coach, he's taken you guys on as a low-level team, he teaches great strategy, in truth he has good stuff, and you Win, and continue to Win.

What on earth is your problem? He's getting the job done!

So he threatens pushups (doesn't seem to give them, just threatens). So he threatens laps if you miss a feed? I coach, and if I had a squad I wanted to perform, I'd do the same! Who wins out of laps... let's see...you do! You get fitter, and you seem to admit you guys could use a prod athletically.
Maybe you won't miss the feed next time, or maybe you'll run a few more laps... maybe you'll end up fitter, and be faster to the feed next time!

Just because you're paying someone doesn't mean they have to treat you with kid-gloves, you're paying to learn tennis, and to be able to win. And you're winning. Life isn't sugar-coated, and some people are tougher than others.

You know what? Try rocking up to your next lesson planning to work harder than you ever have in your life. Get there early (hell, get there early and run some laps even!), be prepared, and instead of resenting the work, thinking you want to tell him to kiss your ***, grumbling about the coach... love it and live it. Work, work & work. Don't expect praise, but instead love the challenge. If he gives you laps, don't jog them with your head down and your shoulders slumped, but run them, *hard*. When it's time to pickup balls, get the job done, and be back ready to hit.

If you go with this attitude, you may be surprised how much more you get from the lesson - and if you repeat this attitude each week, you'll find it a much more rewarding experience, and you are guaranteed to become a better player for it....

Thud and blunder
05-22-2007, 07:19 AM
Look, if he's a &%$, a @#%& and a ?*$ing #@$$, then there's no call for that, but are you sure he's not just giving you a hard time to push you out of your comfort zone.

I recently switched coaches; after the first lesson, I wanted to strangle the guy, but I sucked it up when I realised that this guy was actually pushing me to improve, which is seldom a painless process. My previous coach was a nice guy, made a few suggestions, didn't push it if I relapsed into old habits, let me do my own thing.

My initial reaction to Mr Boot Camp was 'WTF?! I'm paying this guy to enact his drill sergeant fantasies on me!'. Now I look back on Mr Mellow and say 'WTF was I paying that guy for?'

JCo872
05-22-2007, 07:26 AM
THE pro, in this club, not country club, mind you, can be a real jerk, and amazingly, he is booked. The bulk of his students are women over 40, 3.0 to 4.5 at best, and he coaches our team and others. Of his five or six teams, we are one of the lowest levels...3.5 usta. YET, we are the only one that continues to WIN. AND, he can be such a jerk to us...demeaning stares when we miss a feed, today, he threatened push-ups for all of us for 'not getting' what he was saying. Truth is, we get it, we try, we are just not athletically where he expects we should be. We win, we work and play hard, we are respectful, and I am at the point of telling him to KISS my 3.5 ***. We pay him, and I could understand if we treated him like he was a ball machine, just feeding to us, but we really work and are attentive during his 2 hour drill. He get $200 for the 10 of us weekly...my point is, yes, I think I learn more from him than from anyone else I take with...strategy only, no stroke info, but that is tough unless individual or very small group...but, I am SICK of his attitude toward us. It is like he 'shows off', as today there was another team of his on the next court, and he was so abusive in his manner and word....'I just don't know if I care about you guys anymore", 'if you miss a feed, be ready to do laps" exasperated looks when we miss a tough shot, or don't take the ball before the bounce. In truth, he has good stuff, and I know he will fill our spot in no time, I don't know, just wondering if this is the norm?? I can see a hs coach, but, I would love to push him off his high horse, but, he does teach great strategy.

I can't even believe I'm reading this. A team of hardworking, money paying adults being treated like crap by some insecure dumb *****? So what that he "teaches great strategy". Tennis strategy isn't rocket science. You can buy a book. Or go to http://www.operationaldoubles.com for doubles strategy. You will probably learn a lot more this way anyway. Tell this guy to f-off and find a real professional. You guys aren't trying to win Wimbledon...

spadesss
05-22-2007, 07:30 AM
i have not dealt with a pro but i was trying to contact a few in my area after posted ads out.

one claimed he is back from his travel around the world...blah blah blah

another one cliamed he rubbed elbows with the future #1s.

best of all, one made it sound like a religious calling. he came back from his holy journey.

i emailed them a few times each and not one of these idiots respond.
to me, that they are jerks. they are probably no better then my game.

Fred132
05-22-2007, 08:04 AM
Certainly people need different things from a pro. Whenever I hit with a pro for the first time I make it very clear up front what I'm looking for, and what I want to work on.

There are 2 (thankfully uncommon) pro traits that I just cannot deal with. I will pack up my bag and leave if I get any sarcasm or belittling behavior from the pro. Secondly, I don't respect a pro who insists on trying to change technique based purely on preference or opinion.

I think it's hard to be a good tennis pro...you have to be different things for different people, and be good at reading the situation. And no matter how good you are, not everyone is going to love you, that's for sure.

smoothtennis
05-22-2007, 09:47 AM
I have dealt with this kind of pro before. In my case, I wanted to learn so badly, that I took anything he could dish out gladly, laughing under my breath at what a complete *** the guy was.

That was ok, I was getting every tip, every suggestion, soaking up every piece of his tennis knowledge and it is mine now!

This guy sounds like a jerk with an attitude for sure. You have to ask yourself this question. What is your number one objective with these lessons? Are you getting it? If his interpersonal skills suck as bad as you say, then you have to ask yourself---is it so bad that it causes you not to learn?

Look, here is the way I see this situation. In 10 years, you have all the skills he taught you. You will always have it. He will likely be out of the picture and you will never see him again, or you will have some other pro. But will have taken all his strategy. He won't always have you to berate and spill his sarcasm on, but you will always have what he taught you.

The guy that was an ***hole to me when I was learning? I'll admit, I made the same dumb mistake time after time. Then one day he stops the whole drill class and stares at me and asks me to explain to the group, why I feel the need to let the ball drop below net level before volleying? Yes, I was very embarrassed. Guess what I never did again? Never. I take it at the appex, and he gets 100% credit from me, for giving me the shakup I needed. I have many more of those 'fixes' he imparted to me, and I am grateful today believe me. He had a way of really getting into my mind, and forcing me to get out of my comfort zone and way of thinking.

Today, I am a happy person, with a good game. I don't know where he is, and it frankly doesn't matter now.

As long as his attacks are not truly personal in nature, I think he is trying to force you guys to think, and commit to better play.

dman72
05-22-2007, 12:51 PM
[QUOTE=lovin'it;1460390]Funny, in his little world, he is a big shot, but, really, in the scheme of things, he is just a tennis pro, line him up next to everyone of our husbands, and, not to be tacky, but I am sure he makes much less than the lowest of the bunch. QUOTE]

Not much of a feminist, are you? Sorry but this irks me..weather he is a ***** or not, you're trying to put the guy down because what your HUSBAND does? :rolleyes: We haven't come very far, have we?

My wife makes more than I do, so when someone acts like they think they are better than me, am I going to say "He jerk, my wife makes more than you!!!"

:grin:

Ace
05-22-2007, 01:03 PM
[QUOTE=lovin'it;1460390]Funny, in his little world, he is a big shot, but, really, in the scheme of things, he is just a tennis pro, line him up next to everyone of our husbands, and, not to be tacky, but I am sure he makes much less than the lowest of the bunch. QUOTE]

Not much of a feminist, are you? Sorry but this irks me..weather he is a ***** or not, you're trying to put the guy down because what your HUSBAND does? :rolleyes: We haven't come very far, have we?

My wife makes more than I do, so when someone acts like they think they are better than me, am I going to say "He jerk, my wife makes more than you!!!"

:grin:

hahah....I laughed a little when I read that too.....so "Country Club Wife"-ish.

zapvor
05-22-2007, 01:06 PM
So let's get this straight.

He's a coach, he's taken you guys on as a low-level team, he teaches great strategy, in truth he has good stuff, and you Win, and continue to Win.

What on earth is your problem? He's getting the job done!

So he threatens pushups (doesn't seem to give them, just threatens). So he threatens laps if you miss a feed? I coach, and if I had a squad I wanted to perform, I'd do the same! Who wins out of laps... let's see...you do! You get fitter, and you seem to admit you guys could use a prod athletically.
Maybe you won't miss the feed next time, or maybe you'll run a few more laps... maybe you'll end up fitter, and be faster to the feed next time!

Just because you're paying someone doesn't mean they have to treat you with kid-gloves, you're paying to learn tennis, and to be able to win. And you're winning. Life isn't sugar-coated, and some people are tougher than others.

You know what? Try rocking up to your next lesson planning to work harder than you ever have in your life. Get there early (hell, get there early and run some laps even!), be prepared, and instead of resenting the work, thinking you want to tell him to kiss your ***, grumbling about the coach... love it and live it. Work, work & work. Don't expect praise, but instead love the challenge. If he gives you laps, don't jog them with your head down and your shoulders slumped, but run them, *hard*. When it's time to pickup balls, get the job done, and be back ready to hit.

If you go with this attitude, you may be surprised how much more you get from the lesson - and if you repeat this attitude each week, you'll find it a much more rewarding experience, and you are guaranteed to become a better player for it....

good points.

dman72
05-22-2007, 01:06 PM
[QUOTE=dman72;1462633]

hahah....I laughed a little when I read that too.....so "Country Club Wife"-ish.

More power to the *****-ish pro!!

Cruzer
05-22-2007, 01:31 PM
So let's get this straight.

He's a coach, he's taken you guys on as a low-level team, he teaches great strategy, in truth he has good stuff, and you Win, and continue to Win.

What on earth is your problem? He's getting the job done!

So he threatens pushups (doesn't seem to give them, just threatens). So he threatens laps if you miss a feed? I coach, and if I had a squad I wanted to perform, I'd do the same! Who wins out of laps... let's see...you do! You get fitter, and you seem to admit you guys could use a prod athletically.
Maybe you won't miss the feed next time, or maybe you'll run a few more laps... maybe you'll end up fitter, and be faster to the feed next time!

Just because you're paying someone doesn't mean they have to treat you with kid-gloves, you're paying to learn tennis, and to be able to win. And you're winning. Life isn't sugar-coated, and some people are tougher than others.

You know what? Try rocking up to your next lesson planning to work harder than you ever have in your life. Get there early (hell, get there early and run some laps even!), be prepared, and instead of resenting the work, thinking you want to tell him to kiss your ***, grumbling about the coach... love it and live it. Work, work & work. Don't expect praise, but instead love the challenge. If he gives you laps, don't jog them with your head down and your shoulders slumped, but run them, *hard*. When it's time to pickup balls, get the job done, and be back ready to hit.

If you go with this attitude, you may be surprised how much more you get from the lesson - and if you repeat this attitude each week, you'll find it a much more rewarding experience, and you are guaranteed to become a better player for it....

All the above is great if you are dealing with a bunch of 12-15 year olds but since this an adult situation and I doubt if any of these people are making their livelihood from playing tennis this guy is not seeing the big picture. He needs to recognize that this is a recreational activity for the people he is dealing with. Yeah, they want to improve their tennis skills and that is what he should be working on. I doubt if any of this group need or want practice doing pushups. This guy can get away with this attitude primarily because he is at a private club and in many ways has a captive clientale.

I was at a club that had a pro (he also like to called the Director of Tennis) who used similar tactics. We had a tall set of stairs that led from the club house to the tennis courts and he didn't just threaten, he actually had people run the stairs for not doing something proplely during his clinics. He would berate people for the play immediately after completing a USTA match even though they had just won their match. Some people went along but his approach but many did not. He greatest success was alienating a large segment of the tennis membership to the point that they would not even talk to him. He was relieved of his position at this club last year because membership had declined for several years.

lovin'it
05-22-2007, 01:34 PM
wow, many different responses. I guess I am back where I started from, yes, he does get me focused, and I am here to learn, I don't like the fluff ball guys. While one could take this as commited to us...I personnally don't think he is, I think we are an annoyance to him, and I guess that is what rubs me wrong....we, for the most part, have a fine, respectable attitude toward him. We pay attention, we TRY really hard, at least the core of us. His other teams DO NOT WIN, granted, they are at a higher level, but it is all relative. He treats them better, I watch when on neighboring courts, he gives them better times, whatever...I guess I am here, with him, lovin' IT!, but thinking he is an a**. And with the only goal to improve, however it needs to happen....just been doing this for the past two years, and wonder if, by 'taking his ****", I am doing the whole program a disservice. Someone needs to temper him...no one is brave enough to. ADVICE??? what do you do/say, when YOU are his target for the day...just TAKE it, and don't lose face?? That is what I have done, although he hasn't picked on me personally for quite some time...advice!!??? and thanks,

lovin'it
05-22-2007, 01:40 PM
...just read the 'country club' wife comments...I will say, it IS a nice life if you can get it!! I can't complain...

JCo872
05-22-2007, 01:44 PM
wow, many different responses. I guess I am back where I started from, yes, he does get me focused, and I am here to learn, I don't like the fluff ball guys. While one could take this as commited to us...I personnally don't think he is, I think we are an annoyance to him, and I guess that is what rubs me wrong....we, for the most part, have a fine, respectable attitude toward him. We pay attention, we TRY really hard, at least the core of us. His other teams DO NOT WIN, granted, they are at a higher level, but it is all relative. He treats them better, I watch when on neighboring courts, he gives them better times, whatever...I guess I am here, with him, lovin' IT!, but thinking he is an a**. And with the only goal to improve, however it needs to happen....just been doing this for the past two years, and wonder if, by 'taking his ****", I am doing the whole program a disservice. Someone needs to temper him...no one is brave enough to. ADVICE??? what do you do/say, when YOU are his target for the day...just TAKE it, and don't lose face?? That is what I have done, although he hasn't picked on me personally for quite some time...advice!!??? and thanks,

The point of your story isn't about the pro. It's about YOU. You feel like the guy is intimidating, is a jerk. You feel intimidated by him. It has been upsetting you for TWO YEARS. Are these really the feelings any adult should experience when paying money for a recreational sport? It just makes no sense to me. I would have packed my bags after five minutes.

However, seeing as you are still in the situation, I highly recommend you talk to him privately. Let him know how his behavior is affecting you. If he apologizes or says he didn't realize it, then things may change and everything will be fine. If he isn't receptive to your feedback, then tell him to F-off and go play somewhere that you will actually ENJOY your hard earned free time.

dman72
05-22-2007, 03:56 PM
If he isn't receptive to your feedback, then tell him to F-off and go play somewhere that you will actually ENJOY your hard earned free time.

Yeah, hard earned alright. I'd give a sugar-mama a good roggering once a day to have a lifetime of leisure!!

JCo872
05-22-2007, 04:36 PM
Yeah, hard earned alright. I'd give a sugar-mama a good roggering once a day to have a lifetime of leisure!!

LOL. Yeah I take that back!

Cindysphinx
05-22-2007, 05:27 PM
You know . . .

My pro is a sweetheart. Never gets angry, even though I know some things really bug him. Never impatient. Always professional.

I kind of wish he'd turn it up a notch and get a little angry. Not on me, mind. On my lesson-mates. I mean, one in particular doesn't hustle. Say we're trying to hit cross-court and see how many groundstrokes we can hit without a miss. If she hits really wide or short, I go after the ball and try to make a play on it. Like it were a *match.* My lesson-mate will catch the ball. Or wave at it. Or stand there flat-footed and pull another ball out of her skirt.

I wish like heck the pro would make us drop and do 10 pushup for anyone who doesn't run 100% for a ball during a drill.

My lesson-mate often asks the pro how come he is so much harder on me. He makes a joke. I think (no, I know) the real reason is that he can see she's not serious, so why waste his breath or risk angering a client whose money is as green as anyone else's.

So ask yourself whether you're really, really giving it your all, and whether any of the "my husband makes more than you" attitude might be oozing out.

If you're sure none of that is the problem, find another pro, I say.

slice bh compliment
05-22-2007, 06:00 PM
Just thinking out loud here.

What if all teaching pros asked, at the outset of any teacher/student relationship, whether the student wants his or her *** KISSED or KICKED?

Well, I am positive there is some effective middle ground. But I am not so positive that that teaching pro will always get an honest answer on the first day. Maybe open communication...some feedback (both ways), a "how'm I doin'" form...something like that. What do you guys think?

lovin'it
05-22-2007, 07:08 PM
ok ok, I give, the husband comment is a bit poor form, I don't know that it leaks out, but it is pretty obvious that this area/these women are stay at home moms/wives and live a 'nice' life...now I think about it in reverse...I really don't think down on him, there are many 'men' in my life, other pros, teachers of my kids, etc. that I don't hold up to my husband comparing his level of 'success', etc. I take them as they are and respect them as they are...I think it all stems from HIS attitude toward US ... THAT is the issue, otherwise it would be ''all men's attitudes toward me/us". Do you follow??

Again, a SMALL MAN not well adjusted enough to give us the same respect I give at the onset of any relationship until they DON'T deserve it. But, I have my answer, take until his annoying 'way' is disturbing and insulting enough to leave. I can handle it, it just seems unjustified, and ODD! But, I will take and learn and improve and when I am done, I will go on.

and as for this """Yeah, hard earned alright. I'd give a sugar-mama a good roggering once a day to have a lifetime of leisure!!"""...what the heck does that mean?? Too funny!!
__________________

lovin'it
05-22-2007, 07:12 PM
For what it is worth, I would much rather my a** be kicked, (post from slice bh compliment) I have seen many a** kissing pros, and it is a flat workout, I don't learn much, am not held to any standard...I don't need that, I am no 'pansy', I can take a tough coach, but this one is just a bit of a snake.

jackcrawford
05-22-2007, 08:27 PM
I can't even believe I'm reading this. A team of hardworking, money paying adults being treated like crap by some insecure dumb *****? So what that he "teaches great strategy". Tennis strategy isn't rocket science. You can buy a book. Or go to http://www.operationaldoubles.com for doubles strategy. You will probably learn a lot more this way anyway. Tell this guy to f-off and find a real professional. You guys aren't trying to win Wimbledon...
He's your employee, not Bjorn Borg. Tell him to f*** himself. He'd get the same number of games off Nadal as you would, so he should drop the attitude.

Hardserve
05-22-2007, 10:02 PM
hmmm. the pro is just there to help you learn to develop the strokes (or should be) and how to develop the mental toughness of the game by ignoring the bad moods as all coaches have good and bad days. If you can't learn to remain positive and just do what alot of club guys do, easily give into frustration and turn negative and complain or scream or tear their hair out or get angry, then you will not become a good player. The coaches look for mental toughness these days.

lovin'it
05-23-2007, 07:37 AM
A new thought....seems this is a split between tell him to bug off, and two, to take it as 'it' is the best way to get strong, mentally and game-wise.

My question, I don't know about all GREAT coaches in history, but my guess is, being a 'jerk' is in the MINORITY of coaching styles for all-time great coaches. My guess is that a truly GREAT coach is respected, and respectable...not an a** -kisser, but not a jerk. A truly great coach finds a way to get the best out of his (or her!!) players in a tough, but POSITIVE and respectable way. Comments?

Maybe a new thread should be, "is being a jerk the best way for a coach to get success out of a team?"

JCo872
05-23-2007, 08:29 AM
A new thought....seems this is a split between tell him to bug off, and two, to take it as 'it' is the best way to get strong, mentally and game-wise.

My question, I don't know about all GREAT coaches in history, but my guess is, being a 'jerk' is in the MINORITY of coaching styles for all-time great coaches. My guess is that a truly GREAT coach is respected, and respectable...not an a** -kisser, but not a jerk. A truly great coach finds a way to get the best out of his (or her!!) players in a tough, but POSITIVE and respectable way. Comments?

Maybe a new thread should be, "is being a jerk the best way for a coach to get success out of a team?"


On the pro tour, you often see it the OTHER way around. Leyton Hewitt abused his coach so much the guy just took off. Apparently Andy Murray rips into Brad during and after matches. I saw Myskina ripping her coach a few years ago. I thought she was going to kick his ***** after the match. But then again, these guys are getting paid a lot of money, so it's probably easier to take :)

slice bh compliment
05-23-2007, 12:03 PM
There are jerks. Even in a happy, fun industry like tennis. Too bad.

I suppose it is like any industry, though. Lawyers, accountants, garbage collectors, software salesmen, COOs, teachers....whatev. On the pro tour you get a few total cheeseballs, too. I knew a guy who would yell at his charge (Elena Bovina). She would talk back at times, but you could tell there was some fear in her voice. That is much more discomforting to hear than if she'd just scream at him.

Not to mention names, but this cat was charged with ****, too, at some point. Intimidation, mental cruelty....not at all uncommon, which I guess is the reason the wta is talking a big game about criminal background checks for tour coaches.

I've worked as a teaching pro and as a coach. A few of my friends are teaching and coaching at a good level. I figure if a teaching pro loves what he does, he's probably/generally pretty well paid, despite comparisons to the average club woman's husband (which by the way, was about as shallow as anything Zhan has ever written about cool cars and/or white chicks). Sorry, "lovin' it". I know your conscience has since gotten you to amend that sentiment, so no worries.

Anyway, remember the days when a teaching pro was more respected? Maybe I was just a kid, but, man, we had a TON of love and respect for guys who could teach the sport they love for a living. Obviously a guy in a position like that cannot make everyone happy all of the time. But, he/she ought to be lauded for the good work he does do and the sacrifices he makes to follow a healthy, life-giving profession.

pmata814
05-23-2007, 01:18 PM
It sounds like you are describing a Pro I once worked with! The first lesson he was great. The second lesson he turned into the guy you are describing. I stopped halfway through the lesson, paid him in full, and told him I did not respond to that type of teaching.

Some people do respond well to the "drill sergeant" type, but I'm not one of them. I found another guy who still pushed me but in a much more professional manner. I had to pay more, but it was worth it. I advanced a lot more.

OrangeOne
05-23-2007, 01:36 PM
It sounds like you are describing a Pro I once worked with! The first lesson he was great. The second lesson he turned into the guy you are describing. I stopped halfway through the lesson, paid him in full, and told him I did not respond to that type of teaching.

Some people do respond well to the "drill sergeant" type, but I'm not one of them. I found another guy who still pushed me but in a much more professional manner. I had to pay more, but it was worth it. I advanced a lot more.

I'm sorry, let's get this straight. You have 1 WHOLE lesson with a coach, and you find the coach good. You then have 1 HALF lesson with a coach, who goes a bit 'drill sergeant' and you didn't like it, so you paid and ran?

Ever think of wandering up to the net and saying "Hey John, I'm really a bit of a quiet person, and I like some gentler motivation just like you did in lesson 1, as opposed to the slightly tougher stance you've taken today".... and then going on with the lesson?

WORST case scenario: you get 30 mins more instruction for your $$, and then you leave to find another coach.

EVERY OTHER scenario: is better than that one!

(As others have said: Even coaches have bad days!)

slice bh compliment
05-23-2007, 01:58 PM
...WORST case scenario: you get 30 mins more instruction for your $$, and then you leave to find another coach....

(As others have said: Even coaches have bad days!)

Yeah, good post, OO.
But as for coaches having bad days....well, naturally, like any other guy in any other industry. But that coach having a bad day ought to be held accountable. Taken to task, even.

Bottom line, anyone who has ever been certified by the PTR or the USPTA knows that a good portion of their certification class is comprised of yutzes. The fact that a certification training course takes just one weekend should tell you something!
Like the SAT, you begin studying to be a good tennis pro long before you take a prep course.
Unlike the SAT, the tennis professional test is pretty easy. It was a heck of a lot easier than the USRSA MRT test!

The tennis professional has a strange position. He was an athlete. Now he is sort of an administrator and sort of an educator. And the education he is required to go through is minimal. Very free-market, capitalist, right?!

To be sure, some tennis proofessionals are unprofessional (maybe we call them instructors? Tennis bums with a hopper? Some are misunderstood. The good ones are successful in more ways than one. The bad ones get written about in places like this!

richw76
05-23-2007, 02:12 PM
I think that the only thing that really matters, is the coach was being demeaning. Also if you have a pro, he is essentially a teacher. Different students learn in different ways. If he is unwilling or unable to make the adjustments you have to move on. You already said he wouldn't be open to constructive criticism so move on.

To me what he did, even though he was "showing off" within different context I would have a very different reaction.

Example: I just started playing again. My coach wanted to concentrate on groovign my strokes and getting my consistancy back up. He wanted me to hit every ball 3-7 feet over the net, and within 3 feet of the base line. IF I hit it into the fence no problem just nothign into the net...... We were playign soem points out at teh end of practice and I got a short ball that I could tear into and hit it into the bottom of the net. He kinda tore into me a little......I didn't have a problem.

I've played all different sports my whole life and I've had the "handHolder" and I've had the "dictator" and most of the in betweens and I've been on very successful teams that had both types of coaches, but the secret of the great coaches even if a coach is "dictator" type he slightly adjusts depending on who he's workng with.