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OrangeOne
05-24-2007, 05:22 PM
I'm looking at starting a martial art training.

I did Karate as a young teenager, and I enjoyed it (made it to brown belt even, though I wasn't that good looking back! ;)).

Now - well I'm looking for a self-defence-oriented form. I'm also looking for something that is reasonably aligned with modern fitness principles. I'm a keen fitness devotee in many ways, and I won't be interested in doing something that forces me to do moves / training that I find completely bad physiologically.

I am currently considering the following, primarily as I've found a local place that runs these forms. That said, if I searched, I'm sure I'd find most forms locally.

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
Hapkido
Tae Kwon DoAny suggestions (keeping in mind my defence and fitness-aligned goals)?

scotus
05-24-2007, 05:40 PM
If I were you, I would make sure I study Jiu-Jitsu and Hapkido.

Hapkido has everything that Taekwondo offers and more. It has all sorts of high kicks, low kicks, spin and jump kicks), which Taekwondo is famous for. But in addition, Hapkido features deadly joint locks great for mid- to close distance combat.

Once you get into a clinch situation, then you will need either jiu-jitsu or judo. Takedowns, defense against takedowns, grappling and submissions are essential for self-defense.

I hold a black belt in Taekwondo, but I wish I had spent all those years practicing Hapkido instead.

Phil
05-24-2007, 05:44 PM
If you're looking for something practical-that can be used on the "street"-I would suggest the following: Krav Maga, Jeet kun Do or some form of kick boxing (Muay Thai or American-style). As for their fitness aspects, if you train like you're supposed to and strive to get the most out of any of them, they WILL achieve just about any fitness goals you may have. Also, don't discount regular "old" boxing for both its self-defense and hard core fitness elements. Believe me, a trained boxer is as dangerous a fighter as ANY "eastern-style" martial artist.

I always admired BJJ, but it is limited to ground fighting and overhyped and, consequently, overpriced. TKD is also pretty limited, IMO. JKD (developed by Bruce Lee as a more comprehensive MA, incorporating ground fighting, kicks and punches and grappling) will provide as close to a "complete" MA base as you can find.

The key, though, is not necessarily the discipline, but finding the right teacher. There are a lot of low lifes out there just wanting to make a buck (true, of course, of just about any industry, but especially true in MA). So, if you decide on TKD and find a, ahem...kick *** teacher, you'll be better off than with one of the JKD rip-offs out there. Ask around, ask people who are experienced.

OrangeOne
05-24-2007, 06:14 PM
If I were you, I would make sure I study Jiu-Jitsu and Hapkido.

Must be a common pairing? Either that or it's a coincidence, because the local school I'm looking at offers both, I think they even encourage people to train in both simultaneously.

I hold a black belt in Taekwondo, but I wish I had spent all those years practicing Hapkido instead.

Now that's a strong endorsement! Thanks for the reply....

If you're looking for something practical-that can be used on the "street"-I would suggest the following: Krav Maga, Jeet kun Do or some form of kick boxing (Muay Thai or American-style).

Hmm, the same centre as above offers Krav, I'll have a look. Kickboxing has always scared me off, but I suppose I really should take a look.

As for their fitness aspects, if you train like you're supposed to and strive to get the most out of any of them, they WILL achieve just about any fitness goals you may have.

I'm not so much looking for fitness from the form (but hey - more is usually good), I'm more concerned that they'll encourage things that I know are bad for you, like overly-dynamic stretching, that sort of thing.

Also, don't discount regular "old" boxing for both its self-defense and hard core fitness elements. Believe me, a trained boxer is as dangerous a fighter as ANY "eastern-style" martial artist.

Fair point. Another gym I was looking into offered boxing, maybe I'll give that a try too.

I always admired BJJ, but it is limited to ground fighting and overhyped and, consequently, overpriced. TKD is also pretty limited, IMO. JKD (developed by Bruce Lee as a more comprehensive MA, incorporating ground fighting, kicks and punches and grappling) will provide as close to a "complete" MA base as you can find.

I'll have a look into it, and thanks for the background. From what I've seen here, BJJ runs at about the same price as other forms. Maybe there is some benefit to living in a country where tennis balls cost $6 US a can! ;)

The key, though, is not necessarily the discipline, but finding the right teacher. There are a lot of low lifes out there just wanting to make a buck (true, of course, of just about any industry, but especially true in MA). So, if you decide on TKD and find a, ahem...kick *** teacher, you'll be better off than with one of the JKD rip-offs out there. Ask around, ask people who are experienced.

Yup - will do. Most of the places I've found seem to offer a free trial period, and I've never been one to shy away from walking away from something that isn't meeting expectations. Given this is a decision I have no need to rush into, I'm willing to give it some time trying out to find the right form & trainer...

raiden031
05-24-2007, 06:21 PM
I don't know much about martial arts, but as a child and teen I was a black belt in Tang Soo Do, a form of Korean karate. It was similar to Tae Kwon Do, and I am skeptical that it would really have done much for me in a real street fight. I would suggest for self-defense, any martial art that deals with close combat like ju jitsu or judo and grappling type fighting. I even think someone who knows how to wrestle has a huge advantage in a street fight. As for the fitness aspect of it, I have no clue. But the flashier the martial art, the less practical it probably is in a real fight. Nobody has the opportunity to do flying spinning jump kicks in a real fight.

richw76
05-25-2007, 04:39 AM
If you're looking for something practical-that can be used on the "street"-I would suggest the following: Krav Maga, Jeet kun Do or some form of kick boxing (Muay Thai or American-style). As for their fitness aspects, if you train like you're supposed to and strive to get the most out of any of them, they WILL achieve just about any fitness goals you may have. Also, don't discount regular "old" boxing for both its self-defense and hard core fitness elements. Believe me, a trained boxer is as dangerous a fighter as ANY "eastern-style" martial artist.

I always admired BJJ, but it is limited to ground fighting and overhyped and, consequently, overpriced. TKD is also pretty limited, IMO. JKD (developed by Bruce Lee as a more comprehensive MA, incorporating ground fighting, kicks and punches and grappling) will provide as close to a "complete" MA base as you can find.

The key, though, is not necessarily the discipline, but finding the right teacher. There are a lot of low lifes out there just wanting to make a buck (true, of course, of just about any industry, but especially true in MA). So, if you decide on TKD and find a, ahem...kick *** teacher, you'll be better off than with one of the JKD rip-offs out there. Ask around, ask people who are experienced.

Phil you are absolutely right. I'm from miami originally. My first intro to krav maga was when I was 18. I was working at a circuit city in north miami beach. One of the guys their was ex israli army. I was studying Kempo at the time for about 3 years. We would mess around on occasion and finally had a more formal sparring match.... the outcome he kick my ***** every time. Krav maga is a modern martial art simply designed to deliver mazimum damage with minimal effort. Also unlike most martial arts like TKD or even kempo it doesn't take years to translate it into an effective form of self defense.

But per your requirements I would say Muay Thai or boxing, and BJJ is a good combination. Muay thai is basically boxing training. Lots of jump rope andbag work etc. so you really get your heart rate going. then BJJ since as they say almost all fights end on the ground. Then throw in a few krav maga clinics to round it out.

AAAA
05-25-2007, 05:41 AM
In a real 'street' fight I'd take the ultra violent hardcore thug with no martial arts training over the gentle no combat experience black belt whatever art practioner all the time.

Of course martial arts training is better than none at all on the 'street' however like with soldiers and war no amount of training can prepare the soldier for the psychological shock and trauma of a real encounter. MA training will make you feel more confident but I'd also work on aggression and have sparring sessions with body pads and some real contact so the mind can adjust to having the body hit.

Geezer Guy
05-25-2007, 07:30 AM
OrangeOne, Sounds like you're an adult. As an adult, I wanted a form of Karate so I studied Tae Kwon Do for a bit under a year. I enjoyed the TKD training, and it really got me in good shape - maybe the best shape I've ever been in in my life. However, it requires a LOT of flexibility, and no matter how much stretching I did, I never got to the point of being able to kick a 6' opponent in the head. There was also a lot of emphasis on kata's, and I just don't have the kind of mind that can learn/remember a long series of intricate moves. Plus, the whole thing about moving from one colour belt to another seemed a bit more "political" than I thought it should. So, I eventually dropped out.

It WAS a good workout - I give it that. And, there were several points that I thought would be very good practical self defense moves, should that ever be necessary.

If I were going to do it again (and I might), I'd pick a form that has few if any high kicks, NO kata's, and if there was no emphasis on belt's, that would be fine with me. Something more practical. Or, maybe I'll just buy a handgun.

richw76
05-25-2007, 09:35 AM
In a real 'street' fight I'd take the ultra violent hardcore thug with no martial arts training over the gentle no combat experience black belt whatever art practioner all the time.

Of course martial arts training is better than none at all on the 'street' however like with soldiers and war no amount of training can prepare the soldier for the psychological shock and trauma of a real encounter. MA training will make you feel more confident but I'd also work on aggression and have sparring sessions with body pads and some real contact so the mind can adjust to having the body hit.

Your not kidding I remember my first time sparring we used giant 16 oz boxing gloves. First time I got hit I was like WTF!! that hurt :-) . It didn't really but for the average person that doesn't go around starting fights and getting kicked in the head since they were a kid. The first few times you get punched in the face or kicked in the head can be very.... jarring.

LuckyR
05-25-2007, 09:57 AM
In a real 'street' fight I'd take the ultra violent hardcore thug with no martial arts training over the gentle no combat experience black belt whatever art practioner all the time.

Of course martial arts training is better than none at all on the 'street' however like with soldiers and war no amount of training can prepare the soldier for the psychological shock and trauma of a real encounter. MA training will make you feel more confident but I'd also work on aggression and have sparring sessions with body pads and some real contact so the mind can adjust to having the body hit.


In my (very limited) experience the reason why you are in the fight has more to do with the outcome than any training. If you are so pi55ed off, angry, emotional that you are truly invested in the fight, you will do much better than the reluctant, trained individual who isn't sure about this whole deal.

waves2ya
05-25-2007, 03:17 PM
This thread, as MA threads often do, can easily become a proxy for the ever present 'which MA is best', 'Pride' vs. 'UFC' argument. If you are really into devastating street fighting and not discovering a MA that can bring something to your tennis game, you are wildly in the wrong forum.

That said - I'd advocate Chen style tai chi chaun as a MA that is effective, has a broad curriculum and can teach you something about your tennis stroke (eg. grounded stance, powerlines & how to put an opponent away).

35ft6
05-25-2007, 03:23 PM
I'm looking at starting a martial art training.

I did Karate as a young teenager, and I enjoyed it (made it to brown belt even, though I wasn't that good looking back! ;)).

Now - well I'm looking for a self-defence-oriented form. Then do BJJ.I'm also looking for something that is reasonably aligned with modern fitness principles. Tae Kwon Do is best for straight up fitness. It develops flexibility, strength, explosiveness, and balance.
Tae Kwon Do[/LIST]Any suggestions (keeping in mind my defence and fitness-aligned goals)? As for Hapkido, it's a really good compromise. It's got strikes, joint locks, throws, etc. For a one on one street fight, mastering BJJ is the best. It's useless against more than one person though.

If you don't go with BJJ, you should consider Thai boxing, which is more effective in a street fight than tae kwon do and depending on the gym, even more brutal physical fitness-wise than TKD.

If you can find an MMA gym in your area, it might be the best of all.

Morpheus
05-25-2007, 03:36 PM
Most street fights end up on the ground in the first 15 seconds. Learn how to ground fight, if fighting is the reason for your training. If you are more philosophically minded, you may want to find a good Aikido school. TKD emphasizes kicking--high kicks to the head and chest. I find that very impractical on the street. Muy Thai is much better, especially in combo with one of the wrestling forms. Jeet Kune Do takes from all arts, including stick fighting and is also a very good choice.

Noveson
05-25-2007, 05:10 PM
In a real 'street' fight I'd take the ultra violent hardcore thug with no martial arts training over the gentle no combat experience black belt whatever art practioner all the time.

Of course martial arts training is better than none at all on the 'street' however like with soldiers and war no amount of training can prepare the soldier for the psychological shock and trauma of a real encounter. MA training will make you feel more confident but I'd also work on aggression and have sparring sessions with body pads and some real contact so the mind can adjust to having the body hit.

I have to disagree. One of my goods friends is top 5 in the state at tae kwan do(sp?). I have seen him just box some of the stronger kids in the school and he killed them all. He is stronger than most ,not very big, but just too fast for almost everyone.

35ft6
05-26-2007, 03:34 AM
I don't know much about martial arts, but as a child and teen I was a black belt in Tang Soo Do, a form of Korean karate. It was similar to Tae Kwon Do, and I am skeptical that it would really have done much for me in a real street fight. I would suggest for self-defense, any martial art that deals with close combat like ju jitsu or judo and grappling type fighting. I even think someone who knows how to wrestle has a huge advantage in a street fight. As for the fitness aspect of it, I have no clue. But the flashier the martial art, the less practical it probably is in a real fight. Nobody has the opportunity to do flying spinning jump kicks in a real fight. I studied Tang Soo Do, too (it was actually called tang soo do moo doo kwon), and I used it in a fight pretty successfully. But overall I would agree that it's not the most practical style on the street. The blocks and hand strikes are pretty much garbage. I kicked the guy in the head several times, I was wearing shorts, but I used wing chun do hand strikes. Basically, the chung choi (sic?) and nothing else. I was nervous and stressed the whole time but I kept a clear head.In a real 'street' fight I'd take the ultra violent hardcore thug with no martial arts training over the gentle no combat experience black belt whatever art practioner all the time. True. Quinton Jackson isn't very skilled at all but fights at a very high level by using brute strength and aggression.Of course martial arts training is better than none at all on the 'street' however like with soldiers and war no amount of training can prepare the soldier for the psychological shock and trauma of a real encounter. I've heard a lot of people say you lose 80% of your martial arts ability in a fight, and maybe that's why BJJ is so good for one on one fighting -- once it goes to a clinch, you have a little time to think and if the guy doesn't know any grappling, you're in almost complete control.MA training will make you feel more confident but I'd also work on aggression and have sparring sessions with body pads and some real contact so the mind can adjust to having the body hit. Good point. Just being in really good shape and having been hit a few times is a huge advantage. Even boxing terribly a few rounds will greatly improve your chances of surviving a fight. You quickly realize it's tough to land a clean punch on a fit guy with decent reflexes. And once the nose starts bleeding, you see what you're really made of.Most street fights end up on the ground in the first 15 seconds. Learn how to ground fight, if fighting is the reason for your training. You can also just take BJJ lessons once every few weeks or so, learn the basics. Even knowing a little bit of ground fighting is a huge advantage since most people know absolutely nothing on the ground. Everybody can throw a punch, but knowing how to move on the ground isn't nearly as instinctual.

But the danger of BJJ, I would think, is if you fight a complete drunk lunatic and you tie him up on the ground and he decides to start gouging your eye, fish hooking, or rips your ear off. In a no holds barred real street fight, I would try to end it with strikes as quickly as possible or, better yet, just walk away even if you look like a wuss.TKD emphasizes kicking--high kicks to the head and chest. I find that very impractical on the street. But who says you have to aim for the head? Use that kicking power to kick straight into their knee or kick them in the stomach.Muy Thai is much better, especially in combo with one of the wrestling forms. Jeet Kune Do takes from all arts, including stick fighting and is also a very good choice. JKD is good but it depends on your instructor, since everybody's JKD is different. A lot of the guys use a lot of wing chun, which takes a while to develop. The danger with a "style" like JKD is that you might become a jack of all trades, master of none. Know a little of this, a little of that, and who knows what happens in a real fight. Muay Thai and BJJ keeps it very simple. Boxing is good, too, and simply getting into fantastic shape and increasing your strength is good as well.

But really, if you're an adult, it seems silly to worry about self defense. Seriously, unless you attract trouble in bars, dedicating so many hours to prepare for something that is so highly unlikely is nuts. Better off just finding a style that really appeals to you and stay with it for the exercise and fun. :-) :grin:

Or just watch this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=D3K-mrlYG7Y).

Morpheus
05-26-2007, 04:37 AM
But really, if you're an adult, it seems silly to worry about self defense. Better off just finding a style that really appeals to you and stay with it for the exercise and fun. :-) :grin:

Or just watch this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=D3K-mrlYG7Y).

This is exactly why I chose to study Aikido. Very philosophical. Very defensive. Difficult to master. Also effective if you need to face plant someone quickly before getting the heck out of the situation.

Saxten
05-26-2007, 06:59 PM
If you're looking for self defense, look into some of the newer hybrids that are used in the UFC and the like. When the UFC first came out all the stand-up fighters and Karate guys got their butts kicked by the Jujitsu guys and wrestlers because they didn't know how to fight on the ground. Most street fights end up on the ground pretty quick. Find a style that has a good combination of strikes and ground fighting/submissions.

zapvor
05-26-2007, 07:08 PM
just log into the matrix and download all of them.

OrangeOne
05-26-2007, 07:46 PM
Thanks everyone for the advice, I very much appreciate all of the contributions.

In regards to the comments about needing/not needing self-defence skills - well I'd like more self-defence skills, for the same reason I have my first aid certificate. Both sets of skills might be used rarely-to-never, but hey, it's always better to have the skills than not, and if it's something I can build into my fitness regimen, all-the-better. I am aware that in 95% of likely scenarios, 'exiting-stage-left' is the most desirable option!

Thanks again, I'll look into the various options, and I will report back when I choose a form...

Phil
05-27-2007, 05:54 PM
Thanks everyone for the advice, I very much appreciate all of the contributions.

In regards to the comments about needing/not needing self-defence skills - well I'd like more self-defence skills, for the same reason I have my first aid certificate. Both sets of skills might be used rarely-to-never, but hey, it's always better to have the skills than not, and if it's something I can build into my fitness regimen, all-the-better. I am aware that in 95% of likely scenarios, 'exiting-stage-left' is the most desirable option!

Thanks again, I'll look into the various options, and I will report back when I choose a form...

You're right on all counts...getting out of dodge is usually the best self defense, and even if you never use self defense techniques, hey, this is why we pay insurance, too, right...just in case. It could save your life or that of friend/relative. If you never use it...then good...but you'll still reap the benefits of fitness, confidence, etc., etc.

Morpheus also hit the nail on the head-he is not wrong, but personally I've never had the patience to stand up there and do endless kata, especially with the knowledge that that particular discipline-if the time ever comes to use it on the street-will be almost entirely useless, and may even backfire. That's just me, though...

Also, one point, that may seem petty, but I think it's important. My suggestion is to not think in terms of "self defense". This is a misnomer for being able to sucessfully fend off an attacker, and such a mentality may even put you in more danger. It really should be called self-offense, or something more accurate-aggressive counter attack...I don't know...but if you're faced with a determined, sociopathic and voilent attacker, "defense" probably isn't gonna work. He'll cut right through anything you can throw up there because he is intent on pure mayhem and, possibly, murder.

You have to train to go on the offense and to inflict as much damage as possible on your attacker. If running or talking your way out of a situation fails, you KNOW you're going to get hurt...unless you try to destroy your enemy. Not saying you SHOULD destroy him, but this is the kind of mentality you will need to take, and not everyone can do it, but training does help.

scotus
05-27-2007, 07:45 PM
Must be a common pairing? Either that or it's a coincidence, because the local school I'm looking at offers both, I think they even encourage people to train in both simultaneously.


Well, if you are really into martial arts, then you want to be proficient at fighting both stand-up and on the ground.

Hapkido offers a very comprehensive arsenal for stand-up fighting. In many self-defense situations (which by the way is quite different from MMA fights where your opponent will shoot intentionally to take you to the ground), Hapkido can actually help you end the fight without having to go to the ground. You can do all sorts of wrist locks, arm bars, shoulder locks, throws, etc, without having to go to the ground. The fact that it also teaches effective kicks, both low and high, is a great bonus. The punching method is also superior to that of Taekwondo, although for great punching I would recommend boxing, JKD, and American Kenpo.

But once the fight goes to the ground, then you really need Jiujitsu, Judo, or Catch Wrestling skills, because traditional Hapkido doesn't cover much ground fighting. If Brazilian Jiu-jitsu charges you too much, look for a Judo or Japanese Jiujitsu schools. You will learn basically the same techniques at much lower price.

Finally, watch out for schools that offer too many different styles. Sometimes a Taekwondo school offers Hapkido lessons, but this may be a TKD master who knows only a little bit about Hapkido looking to make some extra money. For each art that you want to learn, make sure there is a master/teacher who is highly proficient in that art. There is also a new breed of mixed martial art schools popping up everywhere. If all you want to do is learn techniques and spar, then I think this is also a good option.

Fedace
05-27-2007, 07:49 PM
I like the one that you are able to poke people's eyes out.

Kabob190
05-27-2007, 11:16 PM
Personally, i've only really experienced is tae kwon do, and I hated it. the school was a rip off. Belts were handed out like candy, every two months you were basically guranteed a new belt. People could earn black belts in 2 years! I went up to purple belt and decided it was bs. Never once did I see anybody fail a test. That just may be the place i went to, but if I ever go back to martial arts, it wont be tae kwon do.

Morpheus
05-28-2007, 03:48 AM
I like the one that you are able to poke people's eyes out.

I like the imagry. Now you are sounding like a Standford alum!

Bodacious DVT
05-28-2007, 08:35 AM
i used to take Tae Kwon Do and it was pretty good. i was a high red belt when i left. its sorta... not really martial artsy, but it was good.

my brother takes Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and he loves it. His instructor is nationally renown. i would recommend Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, but make sure its an authentic class. lots of places offer fake Brazilian Jiu Jitsu classes, as its sorta the "thing" to do.

AAAA
05-28-2007, 09:21 AM
I have to disagree. One of my goods friends is top 5 in the state at tae kwan do(sp?). I have seen him just box some of the stronger kids in the school and he killed them all. He is stronger than most ,not very big, but just too fast for almost everyone.

You seem to be disagreeing with something I didn't write or something you thought I wrote which I didn't.

Andres
05-30-2007, 07:41 AM
I trained lots of martial arts in my life, lots of them for little time. Got bored quickly. The only two I really enjoyed, because of its potential, it's jiu jitsu brasileiro (very close to Vale Tudo) and muay thai.

Both are the best in their kind... Muay Thai for striking, and JJ for grapping and submissions.

I got to a 1st Dan in Jiu Jitsu. My instructor was Claudio Palumbo (5th Dan and two-times World Champion, in USA and Greece)

But had to quit Muay Thai after 5 years cause wasn't fun going to school with my face all bruised up :p

I got knocked out once. Badly. Elbow to the jaw, hehe. Not fun at all.

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
06-05-2007, 07:42 PM
karate is best, better than tae kwon do

Ultra2HolyGrail
06-06-2007, 04:36 AM
karate is best, better than tae kwon do

Not the best, proven here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul75eoVg-iQ

Ultra2HolyGrail
06-06-2007, 04:49 AM
Another gracie fight. This time a MUCh bigger stronger opponent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb69bvCFxiY

richw76
06-06-2007, 11:14 AM
Another gracie fight. This time a MUCh bigger stronger opponent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb69bvCFxiY

In a regulated fight an experienced BJJ practicioner will always beat the other guy if he has little or no BJJ, unless he has great takedown defense.

And to you and the guy that wants to "poke" someones eye out. I trained in kempo/muay thai/bjj and you learn all that stuff but unless me or my family were in mortal danger I would never use it. It takes a special kind of guy to really TRY to hurt someone permenantly. Luckily in my life I've only had one "real" fight. You can almost always avoid physical confrontation if you want to. Train to better yourself not hurt people. ;-)

thursdayisgod
06-08-2007, 10:14 PM
Muay Thai is the best.

There is a reason majority of UFC's more successful MMArtists/Fighters have studied under Muay Thai.

Morpheus
06-09-2007, 04:13 AM
Another gracie fight. This time a MUCh bigger stronger opponent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb69bvCFxiY

Why in the world would he wear his gui in a fight? And what is the guy doing with a pony tail?

Morpheus
06-09-2007, 04:17 AM
In a regulated fight an experienced BJJ practicioner will always beat the other guy if he has little or no BJJ, unless he has great takedown defense.

And to you and the guy that wants to "poke" someones eye out. I trained in kempo/muay thai/bjj and you learn all that stuff but unless me or my family were in mortal danger I would never use it. It takes a special kind of guy to really TRY to hurt someone permenantly. Luckily in my life I've only had one "real" fight. You can almost always avoid physical confrontation if you want to. Train to better yourself not hurt people. ;-)

I think the "poke the other guy's eyes out" comment was a joke--at least that's how I took it.

There will always be idiots who want to learn how to fight just so they can fight. I've seen a few in my time. That is why I ended up in Aikido. The people in aikido generally do it because they like the defensive philosophy of the art. The best form of aikido is having the awareness and skill to avoid a fight.

The Gorilla
06-09-2007, 04:38 AM
I think the "poke the other guy's eyes out" comment was a joke--at least that's how I took it.

There will always be idiots who want to learn how to fight just so they can fight. I've seen a few in my time. That is why I ended up in Aikido. The people in aikido generally do it because they like the defensive philosophy of the art. The best form of aikido is having the awareness and skill to avoid a fight.

then why train to fight at all?

Morpheus
06-09-2007, 05:06 AM
then why train to fight at all?

I don't train to fight.

Ultra2HolyGrail
06-09-2007, 05:21 AM
Why in the world would he wear his gui in a fight? And what is the guy doing with a pony tail?

Actually the gui is a advantage for gracie. I've seen him use it to choke people out. Also he dont care if it's easier for people to grab on to him, thats his gameplan. To clinch up and go to the ground for a submission or choke.. I dont think they allow it in the ufc anymore.

Dont know about the ponytail, i bet he learned his lesson.

Morpheus
06-09-2007, 06:24 AM
Actually the gui is a advantage for gracie. I've seen him use it to choke people out. Also he dont care if it's easier for people to grab on to him, thats his gameplan. To clinch up and go to the ground for a submission or choke.. I dont think they allow it in the ufc anymore.

Dont know about the ponytail, i bet he learned his lesson.

Good points. I recall watching in the early days and this guy came out with a long pony tail. He was a black belt in TKD. His opponent got a hold of the hair and it was over fast. It was actually kind of ugly and hard to watch. Darn near ripped his hair out.

ShooterMcMarco
06-09-2007, 10:04 AM
Good points. I recall watching in the early days and this guy came out with a long pony tail. He was a black belt in TKD. His opponent got a hold of the hair and it was over fast. It was actually kind of ugly and hard to watch. Darn near ripped his hair out.

Its the same reason why you shouldn't fight with a tie on ;)

squints
06-09-2007, 10:18 AM
you can glean something from all types of martial arts. It's not a question of what is best or worst, but rather how you apply what you learn. I think many martial arts instructors as well as students do not emphasize sparring enough. It is with free sparring that actual fight applications can be learnt and practiced properly.

True some martial arts are geared towards different directions you just have to find what it is you exactly want to learn. I take Shotokan Karate, I like it. I can see lots of points and places where it may not be practical in a real world fighting sense. But my sensei is very good and usually points it out himself. He says that there aren't really any bad martial arts, merely bad teachers. I think that goes along with what Bruce Lee once said. Whatever you might learn to use in a fight, you better learn it and use it.

Orange, it is a common practice to pair a "hard" martial art with a "soft" one. Have you ever heard of sanshou/sanda? It is culmination of sorts of chinese martial arts applied in more modern militaristic and self defense. Might be something to look into. Akido is also very good for self defense, but as you mentioned, you're looking for more core physical fitness. I think Akido is more philosphpical, thus all the suggestion that have come before are good ones.

I personally think BJJ is a very good martial art, but is way to frikkin overhyped, and not as practical in a real fight as one would think (especially citing a multiple person fight that is). A judo or aikido type of martial art would be, since its focuses on disabling your opponent and getting away. TKD can be practical if you use it correctly, a kick to the head can kill.

remember in real life there are no rules. If you can dislocate someones shoulder, or break someones arm while taking them down, you minimize the amount of contact and time you actually have to make. Besides the first rule of self defense is avoiding a confrontation in the first place.

just my 2 cents.

Ultra2HolyGrail
06-09-2007, 01:04 PM
I dont think bjj is overhyped. Gracie proved this in the early 90's when nobody, very few, were skilled on the ground, and was able to defeat much bigger and stronger opponents than him. People think of karate, bruce lee, and think they are capable of defeating multiple attackers like in the movies lol. I forget the percentages in a real fight, but the vast majority do end up on the ground. If you dont have no wrestling or ground game you're pretty much a fish out of water. The good mma fighters of today incorporate bjj, wrestling, with other arts to truely be a complete fighter.. Without a ground game though you're severely limited from success, especially in ufc or pride fighting, and on the street.

Luckily, hopefully, most here are knowledgable enough to stay out of a fight. Sometimes though, like the bully in school trying to push you around everyday, you need to stand up for yourself..

Rickson
06-09-2007, 03:02 PM
I'm looking at starting a martial art training.

I did Karate as a young teenager, and I enjoyed it (made it to brown belt even, though I wasn't that good looking back! ;)).

Now - well I'm looking for a self-defence-oriented form. I'm also looking for something that is reasonably aligned with modern fitness principles. I'm a keen fitness devotee in many ways, and I won't be interested in doing something that forces me to do moves / training that I find completely bad physiologically.

I am currently considering the following, primarily as I've found a local place that runs these forms. That said, if I searched, I'm sure I'd find most forms locally.

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
Hapkido
Tae Kwon DoAny suggestions (keeping in mind my defence and fitness-aligned goals)?
Mixed martial arts is the fastest growing sport in the world so try the combo art. The best combo I can think of is muay thai and BJJ, but if you're into grappling, take up freestyle wrestling as well. Freestyle wrestlers are the best grapplers in the world although their submission skills are lacking. If I could do it all over again from a younger age, I'd go with Freestyle wrestling as my foundation, muay thai for my striking, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for my submissions. If I had to pick just one, I'd pick BJJ.

Andres
06-09-2007, 05:37 PM
Mixed martial arts is the fastest growing sport in the world so try the combo art. The best combo I can think of is muay thai and BJJ, but if you're into grappling, take up freestyle wrestling as well. Freestyle wrestlers are the best grapplers in the world although their submission skills are lacking. If I could do it all over again from a younger age, I'd go with Freestyle wrestling as my foundation, muay thai for my striking, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for my submissions. If I had to pick just one, I'd pick BJJ.
Which is pretty much what I said ;)
Freestyle wrestling isn't something like Vale Tudo, Rickson?

m_b
06-10-2007, 08:16 AM
Tai chi chuan is very interesting as martial art, if you can find an instructor who also teaches it as the martial art that tai chi originally is. But don't expect fast results.
Closer to what you may be looking for, recently I read some articles on the Web about the Russian martial art Systema (the Wikipedia entry gives a good overview) and it looked very interesting.

topspin_17
06-11-2007, 12:59 AM
try aikido, OO. its a very patient martial art which is quite difficult to master. i learnt it when i was 7-8, when i lived in singapore. now i live in thailand, and my interest in muay thai has grown ever since. muay thai is an ancient art, and has different forms depending from the region. thai style muay thai is much more effective than american style muay thai though. i learn muay chaiya, which is more on the defensive side of muay thai, and emphasizes posture more than power. i actually learn this style because the centre is in the lane next to my house's lane, so i just bike there. it's a really effective way to defend yourself, and on fight science on national geographic, i learned that a muay thai knee thrust can generate about 2,000 pounds of force. that's twice as much force compared to the next best kicking-based move.

Supracool94
06-11-2007, 11:33 AM
Do yourself a favor and take an art that is proven and actually works. Karate, Kung Fu, Aikido, tae kwan do, and every other TMA have all been discredited. Watch the first UFCs, were pretty much everything was allowed. I sparred with a T.K.D. Black Belt, I took him down and subbed very quickly.

The arts below have been proven and work, there are in order of importance:

BJJ for Ground Work & Submissions
Muy Thai for striking
Wrestling for Takedowns
Boxing for improved punching
Judo for throws

Supracool94
06-11-2007, 11:37 AM
Mixed martial arts is the fastest growing sport in the world so try the combo art. The best combo I can think of is muay thai and BJJ, but if you're into grappling, take up freestyle wrestling as well. Freestyle wrestlers are the best grapplers in the world although their submission skills are lacking. If I could do it all over again from a younger age, I'd go with Freestyle wrestling as my foundation, muay thai for my striking, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for my submissions. If I had to pick just one, I'd pick BJJ.

I like your avatar, I took a seminar with Rickson and I learned a lot. He is the man.

J to tha C
06-12-2007, 01:13 PM
If your looking for defense and physical conditioning try Muay Thai (this is just Thai kickboxing)
Also make sure you get a good instructor and get to spar often.
Sparing is fun even if you get hurt, for me anyway :)