PDA

View Full Version : What do you lose first fat ....?


BORISK
06-20-2007, 09:24 AM
When you lose weight, what do you lose first: water ,fat, muscle?
And what helps you to lose this f..... fat?

Nuke
06-20-2007, 10:40 AM
Water goes up and down the fastest. You play a long match and lose a couple of pounds of water in a few hours, even if you're drinking on court to rehydrate. But that's not real weight loss -- just a temporary thing until your body catches up with the water.

Swiftslaughter
06-20-2007, 10:52 AM
I've heard that if you starve yourself, the first thing to go is the water, muscle, and then fat. Maybe you can do a search for it on google, that might be quicker than relying on these tennis forums, lol.

LuckyR
06-20-2007, 10:57 AM
While starvation results are interesting in their own way, my guess is the OP is more concerned about what happens in real life, ie when eating (perhaps lower calories, but still eating) and exercising and trying to lose weight.

richw76
06-20-2007, 12:16 PM
You always loose water first then fat and muscle, that's why you always want to do soem form of resistance training to retain as much muscle/lean body mass as possible.

chess9
06-20-2007, 12:50 PM
If you diet, you are going to lose some fat and some muscle at first. It's common to lose a bit of muscle. But, if you are eating properly and lifting, you should be able to regain any initial muscle loss with time and not replace the fat.

-Robert

Ano
06-20-2007, 04:52 PM
When you lose weight, what do you lose first: water ,fat, muscle?
And what helps you to lose this f..... fat?

It depends on many factors.

If you drastically reduce your calories and carbs intake, without lifting weight, you will definitely lose weight, but much of the initial weight loss will be muscle and water.

Suppose you drop 5-7 lbs in your first week on a low calorie/carb diet:
sounds impressive, but if one pound is fat, 2-3 pounds are
water and 2-3 pounds are muscle, what did you accomplish?

I have said this before, and I will say it again : your goal should never be weight loss. Your goal should be fat loss.

Most people will lose fat simply by adding a regular exercise
routine (cardio and weight training) to their schedule and by "cleaning up" their diets.

By "cleaning up" your diet, I mean that you've mastered all
the nutritional basics like eating small frequent meals, eating lean protein with veggies in every meal, controlling portion sizes, cutting down on unhealthy fats and adding healthy fats, avoiding sugar and refined foods, etc.

Just remember, a combination of good nutrition, cardio and weight training will help you lose the fat and maintain the muscle.

Reducing calories drastically for a long period without weight training will not help you lose fat. Why ?

When fewer calories are consumed, the body compensates by reducing many of the hormones involved with thyroid function/metabolic rate (T3/T4, leptin, etc.) and increasing production of an enzyme called lipoprotein lipase, which conserves food energy by storing calories as fat.

In simple terms, when you restrict calories too low your body doesn't necessarily know when your next meal is coming (your bodies goes into Starvation Mode) , so it'll take what little calories it is getting and store them as fat for later use.

Unfortunately, metabolic rate is in direct correlation with how much lean body mass (LBM) you have, and given the fact that long duration, low-calorie diets can result in substantial muscle loss — sometimes as much as 45% of total weight loss, you can see how this approach is counterproductive.

Initially the majority of people who restrict calories will make some decent progress for a few weeks as far as weight loss is concerned. However, there will come a point when progress stalls and no matter how much they lower calories or how much they increase their caloric expenditure through exercise — that little bit of fat on the abdominals or inner thighs will just not go away.

Why?

Fat cells have both B1 (beta 1) and A2 (alpha 2) adrenoreceptors (specific to the catecholamines adrenaline and noreadrenaline). B1 receptors send good messages and can be viewed as the "good guys". They activate lipase, which causes the fat cell to break down from a triglyceride to a free fatty acid (which is then transported via albumin to be burned off and used as energy).
Noreadrenaline is a stress hormone and is what is used to "light up" the B1 receptors.

For example, when someone drastically reduces calories (initially) or engages in high intensity exercise (a stress to the body), noreadrenaline is released, and it seeks out B1 receptors to break down fat.

A2 adrenoreceptors, on the other hand, are the "bad guys," and are the dominant receptors in stubborn body fat. They block lipase in the fat cell, which promotes additional triglyceride formation. They also decrease the generation of noreadrenaline, which results in decreased activity with the B1 receptors, which is not that big of an issue because lower body fat doesn't have many B1 receptors in the first place.

And while I'm sure I lost many of you while you were reading the last few paragraphs, I do have a point. Low calorie diets cause an INCREASE in the number of A2 receptors in the body.

jasoncho92
06-20-2007, 04:55 PM
I thought it was water first. Then fat for a few days until your body finds out whats happening then muscle. This is for starving

MikeZee
06-20-2007, 11:18 PM
Ano, you are amazing! I really enjoy how you take the time to respond so thoroughly to so many threads. I've learned tons by reading your posts, and I don't think the fitness section of these boards would be nearly as informative without your contributions!

Ano
06-20-2007, 11:32 PM
Ano, you are amazing! I really enjoy how you take the time to respond so thoroughly to so many threads. I've learned tons by reading your posts, and I don't think the fitness section of these boards would be nearly as informative without your contributions!

Thank you. I appreciate your kind words.

nanni
06-21-2007, 01:24 AM
agree with mikezee..ano...you are not only knowledgable but also modest and genuinely seem to enjoy helping others in areas of health/fitness and tennis,which obviously is your passion.
i look for your posts to get some good info on this stuff.
been trying to follow your tips,but have not been that regular because of work being hectic.settling down in surabaya and enjoying my 6k morning run in citra raya!and tennis on sundays!:grin:

Ano
06-21-2007, 03:34 AM
Okay guys, because you appreciate my posts, I will give you a bonus.

I will explain in laymen’s terms how fat cells work and what happens when you start to burn body fat

When you “lose” body fat, the fat cell (also called an adipocyte) does not go anywhere or “move into the muscle cell to be burned”.

The fat cell itself, (unfortunately) stays right where it was - under the skin in your thighs, stomach, hips, arms, etc., and on top of the muscles - which is why you can’t see muscle “definition” when your body fat is high.

Fat is stored inside the fat cell in the form of triaglycerol. The fat is not burned right there in the fat cell, it must be liberated from the fat cell through somewhat complex hormonal/biochemical pathways.

When stimulated to do so, the fat cell simply releases its contents (triaglycerol) into the bloodstream as free fatty acids (FFA’s), and they are transported through the blood to the tissues where the energy is needed.

A typical young male stores about 60,000 to 100,000 calories of energy in body fat cells. What triggers the release of all these stored fatty acids from the fat cell? Ahhh, that’s what we all want to know, right?

Well, it’s simple: When your body needs energy because you’re consuming fewer calories than you are burning (an energy deficit), then your body releases hormones and enzymes that signal your fat cells to release your fat reserves instead of keeping them in storage.

For stored fat to be liberated from the fat cell, hydrolysis (lipolysis or fat breakdown), splits the molecule of triaglycerol into glycerol and three fatty acids. An important enzyme called hormone sensitive lipase (HSL) is the catalyst for this reaction.

The stored fat (energy) gets released into the bloodstream as FFA’s and they are shuttled off to the muscles where the energy is needed. As blood flow increases to the active muscles, more FFA’s are delivered to the muscles that need them.

Then the FFA’s get inside the mitochondria of the muscle cell, where the FFA’s can be burned for energy. If you’ve ever taken a biology class, then you’ve probably heard of the mitochondria. This is the “cellular powerhouse” where energy production takes place and this is where the FFA’s go to be burned for energy.

When the FFA’s are released from the fat cell, the fat cell shrinks and that’s why you look leaner - because the fat cell is now smaller. A small or “empty” fat cell is what you’re after if you want the lean, defined look.

It was once believed that the number of fat cells could not increase after maturity, only the size of the fat cells could increase (or decrease). We now know that fat cells can indeed increase both in size (hypertrophy) and in number (hyperplasia) and that they are more likely to increase in number at certain times and under certain circumstances, such as 1) during late childhood and early puberty, 2) During pregnancy, and 3) During adulthood when extreme amounts of weight are gained.

Some people are genetically predisposed to have more fat cells than others and women have more fat cells than men. An infant usually has about 5 - 6 billion fat cells. This number increases during early childhood and puberty, and a healthy adult with normal body composition has about 25 to 30 billion fat cells.

A typical overweight adult has around 75 billion fat cells. But in the case of severe obesity, this number can be as high as 250 to 300 billion!

The average size (weight) of an adult fat cell is about 0.6 micrograms, but they can vary in size from 0.2 micograms to 0.9 micrograms. An overweight person’s fat cells can be up to three times larger than a person with ideal body composition.

Remember, body fat is basically just a reserve source of energy and fat cells are the like the storage tanks. Unlike a gas tank in your car which is fixed in size, however, fat cells can expand or shrink in size depending on how “filled” they are.

Picture a balloon that is not inflated: It’s tiny when not filled with air - maybe the size of your thumb. When you blow it up with air, it can expand 10 or 12 times it’s normal size, because it simply fills up.

That’s what happens to fat cells: They start as nearly empty fat storage “tanks” (when you are lean), and when energy intake exceeds your needs, your fat cells “fill up” and “stretch out” like balloons filled with jelly (not a pretty picture, is it?)

So when you get leaner, you don’t actually “lose” fat cells, you “shrink” or “empty out” fat cells.

Take Home Lessons:

1. Calories count! The signal that triggers your body to release adipose from fat cells is an energy deficit… you have to burn more than you eat.

2. Cut calories conservatively. Starving yourself may cause quick weightloss at first, but never works long term because it actually decreases the activity of fat burning enzymes that release fat from the cells. to avoid this “starvation mode” use exercise to BURN THE FAT, not very low calorie crash diets.

3. Get control of your weight now. If you are gaining fat, and especially if your weight is climbing upwards out of control, make a decision to STOP RIGHT NOW. Your fat cells might be multiplying, making it more difficult to get lean in the future. NOW is the time!

4. If you’ve already lost fat, you must be forever diligent. Your fat cells are not gone, they have merely “shrunk” or “emptied out.” Fitness is not a 12 week program, its a lifestyle. To stay lean you have to eat clean and stay active

5. Genetics are only a minor factor. You may not have control over how many fat cells you were born with, but you do control the major factors that determine how much fat you store: lifestyle, exercise, nutrition, mental attitude.

Genetics are not an excuse. The past is not an excuse. Your present condition is not an excuse. You can either make excuses or get results, but you can’t do both.

So keep educating yourself about the science, read as much as possible, take action every day and go out there and make it happen!

richw76
06-21-2007, 07:01 AM
agree with mikezee..ano...you are not only knowledgable but also modest and genuinely seem to enjoy helping others in areas of health/fitness and tennis,which obviously is your passion.
i look for your posts to get some good info on this stuff.
been trying to follow your tips,but have not been that regular because of work being hectic.settling down in surabaya and enjoying my 6k morning run in citra raya!and tennis on sundays!:grin:

Ditto, hats off to Ano. Ano is a fantastic resource on this board. He is the only "long poster" that I ALWAYS take 5-10 minutes to carefully read and re-read his posts. As the rest have said thanks man for taking the time we know you don't have to.

meticulous
06-21-2007, 08:18 AM
ANO, you are great! You will kill me if you know: why is fat located "under the skin in your thighs, stomach, hips, "? Thanks

chess9
06-21-2007, 10:35 AM
Thank you. I appreciate your kind words.


Amen! Tennis Warehouse should pay him to respond here....Sheezh!

I'd never take that much trouble to respond because I'm just too old and lazy. :) See, being young has lots of benefits.... :)

-Robert

Ano
06-21-2007, 04:23 PM
Amen! Tennis Warehouse should pay him to respond here....Sheezh!

I'd never take that much trouble to respond because I'm just too old and lazy. :) See, being young has lots of benefits.... :)

-Robert


Pal, I'm younger than you, but you are stronger and have bigger arms than me. ;)

Ano
06-21-2007, 04:52 PM
Ditto, hats off to Ano. Ano is a fantastic resource on this board. He is the only "long poster" that I ALWAYS take 5-10 minutes to carefully read and re-read his posts. As the rest have said thanks man for taking the time we know you don't have to.

Actually, by responding in this forum, good things has happened to me.

Plenty of visitors in this forum who live in Jakarta have emailed me, and asked me to train them. All of them didn't mind to pay my fee (which is certainly not cheap). ;)

Ano
06-22-2007, 02:22 AM
ANO, you are great! You will kill me if you know: why is fat located "under the skin in your thighs, stomach, hips, "? Thanks

Most of your bodyfat (up to 90 %) is located under the skin (subcutanous fat). The remainder of your body's fat is located around organs (internal fat) and inside muscle tissue (intramuscular fat).

Internal fat is found in the nerves, brain, bone marrow, liver, heart and in nearly all the other glands and organs of the body. This is called "essential fat".

Essential fat is necessary for energy storage, protection of internal organs, and insulation against heat loss. In women, this fat also includes sex-related fat deposits including the breast tissue and uterus. Essential body fat is 2-3 % for men and 7-8 % for women.

Now, why some people have plenty of fat in their stomach and waist, while other people have plenty of fat in their legs or back?

It's like asking, why some people have curly hairs, and other people have straight hairs? Why some people have big noses and big eyes, and other people have small nose and small eyes?

It's genetic. Pure and simple.

Pen Express
06-26-2007, 03:46 PM
Couldn't you cut out carbs completely and eat a highish amount of good fats and protein to force your body into ketosis? Or should that only be reserved for serious cutting?

Ano
06-26-2007, 04:33 PM
Couldn't you cut out carbs completely and eat a highish amount of good fats and protein to force your body into ketosis? Or should that only be reserved for serious cutting?

It's a fact that almost every bodybuilder or fitness competitor uses some variation of the low carb diet to prepare for competitions.

But, I only use very low carb diet as a last resort for my clients.

For example, when an actor came to me and said he had to bring his bodyfat to a singgle digit in 4-6 weeks or he would lose a contract, I had no chance but to put him on a very low carb diet.

However, I do NOT recommend very low carb diet as a life style.

Why?

At worst they are unhealthy. At best they're a temporary tool that should be used only for short periods to achieve specific fat loss goals (preparing for bodybuilding competition or a photo shoot, for example).

Even for carb-sensitive, insulin-resistant, hypoglycemic people who respond well to less carbs and more protein/fat, there are still many drawbacks:

1) Very low carb diets are difficult to stick to.

If you remove most of your carbohydrates from your diet for a long period of time, you're setting yourself up for a relapse. The more you cut back the carbs, the bigger the rebound will be when you put carbs back in.
That's why 95% of people gain back all the weight they lose on a very low carb diet.

2) Very low carb diets are often unbalanced and missing many nutrients.

It's still up for debate whether low carb programs like the Atkins diet are unhealthy, but few people would debate the fact that the optimal diet for long term maintenance is one that has balance between protein, carbs and fats and includes a wide variety of foods, including lots of fruits and vegetables, not removal of an entire food group oroveremphasis on one food or food group.

3) Very low carb diets may be unhealthy.

Many low carb diets allow large amounts of saturated and processed fats. (No toast or pancakes are allowed, but bacon, sausage, and lots of butter for breakfast are just fine).

In the absence of carbohydrates, you can eat fat with protein and you'll still lose weight (fat doesn't necessarily make you fat). But it's probably not wise to eat large amounts of saturated fat and it's never wise to eat processed fats or trans fats.

Although the effects of low carb, high fat/protein diets on various health markers is still up for debate, most people would be best to opt for a diet that is low in fat (below 30% of total calories) and moderate in carbs and protein.

4) Very low carb diets may cause your energy levels to plummet. Not only will you feel tired and irritable without carbs, but your training will probably suffer: Low carbs = low energy. Low energy = poor workouts. Poor workouts = poor results.

5) The weight loss on a very low carb diet can be deceiving. You will definitely lose weight if you don't eat carbs, but much of the initial weight loss will be muscle and water.

Low carb diets can accelerate fat loss. But if you choose the low carb approach to dieting, the best method for most people is to decrease your carbohydrates moderately and "cycle" your carb intake with low and high days.

My preferred method which I use for my clients is 3 days on reduced carbs with 1 higher carb "re-feed" day.

Cutting out carbs completely is not necessary, it's probably not healthy, it's hard to stick to, and it's no fun! It's usually not wise to go to extremes in anything and that's as true for nutrition as anything else in life: moderation is the key.

The truth is, there is no single program that works best for everyone. You have to learn to adjust your intake carbs, calories and other nutrients in order to individualize your program based on goals, activity and your level of "carb tolerance."

Ano
06-26-2007, 05:00 PM
Before you ask what do I mean with very low carb diet, here's my definitions :

Very high carb = 65 - 70 % calories from carb

High carb = 55 - 60 % calories from carb

Moderate carb = 40 - 50 % calories from carb

Low carb = 25 - 35 % calories from carb

Very low carb (ketogenic) = about 5 - 15 % calories from carb or 30-70
grams perday

Ano
06-26-2007, 05:15 PM
Many of you might ask, what is ketosis?

The goal of some very low cab diets is to produce the metabolic state known as ketosis.

In the absence of carb, fats burn incompletely, causing by products called ketone bodies to accumulate in the bloodstream.

Being in ketosis is a sure-fire indicator that your body has been forced to run on fat for fuel. That’s why achieving ketosis is the primary goal of so many low carb diets.

Ketosis can occur when your carb are dropped below 100 grams, athough most people don’t stay in ketosis until carb go below 30-70 grams a day.

Ketosis can be detected with a urine test.

Paper strips called “ketostix” are dipped in the urine and when they change to a certain color, this indicates you’ve achieved a ketogenic state.

summer
06-27-2007, 06:33 AM
Ano, you are amazing! I really enjoy how you take the time to respond so thoroughly to so many threads. I've learned tons by reading your posts, and I don't think the fitness section of these boards would be nearly as informative without your contributions!

Ano is a huge asset and inspiration. As are Chess, Kevin T, and Fearless. This board has really helped me take my fitness to next level. I just hope I can continue the momentum.

summer
06-27-2007, 06:50 AM
Ano is a huge asset and inspiration. As are Chess, Kevin T, and Fearless. This board has really helped me take my fitness to next level. I just hope I can continue the momentum.

Forgot about tricky.

0range
12-21-2007, 10:02 PM
Since the topic has gone to low-carb stuff... I was wondering if anyone (ano?) knows the best way to optimize tennis performance while doing a low-carb diet? Carb-load before or after tennis? how many grams? how?? Thx.

Ronaldo
12-21-2007, 10:32 PM
Ano, if you increase the amount of protein with an extremely low carb diet, can you avoid losing muscle?

Ano
12-25-2007, 06:20 PM
Ano, if you increase the amount of protein with an extremely low carb diet, can you avoid losing muscle?

You can minimize the amount of muscle loss during extremely low carb diet by doing these :

1. avoid too much steady state cardio ( 30 minutes , 3 times a week is usually enough).

2. Lift relatively heavy weight in basic exercises (Squat, deadlift, row, press etc).

3. increase your fat intake (flax oil, fish oil, extra virgin olive oil).

3. do low carb diet for three days, followed by 1 day of higher carb diet.

Having said that, most people don't need to do extremely low carb diet. You only need to do extremely low carb diet if you are about 9-10 % bodyfat, and you want to bring it to about 6 %.

I certainly do NOT recommend an extremely low carb diet for most people.

Rickson
12-25-2007, 06:27 PM
When you lose weight, what do you lose first: water ,fat, muscle?
And what helps you to lose this f..... fat?

Let me tell you, it would be awesome if we lost fat first, but life isn't that easy or fair for that matter. We lose water first, followed by muscle, and finally the dreaded adipose tissue. This is why weight training is encouraged during dieting because that way, you'll be able to keep the muscle while losing bodyfat. If you simply let nature take its course, water first, muscle, then fat. Life is never easy.

BORISK
12-26-2007, 03:37 PM
Thank you, Rickson

uKazushi
01-01-2008, 12:26 PM
Before you ask what do I mean with very low carb diet, here's my definitions :

Very high carb = 65 - 70 % calories from carb

High carb = 55 - 60 % calories from carb

Moderate carb = 40 - 50 % calories from carb

Low carb = 25 - 35 % calories from carb

Very low carb (ketogenic) = about 5 - 15 % calories from carb or 30-70
grams perday

When you say 30-70 is that like grams of a primarily carbohydrate food like bread or grams of the carbohydrate content of bread?

OrangeOne
01-01-2008, 12:37 PM
When you say 30-70 is that like grams of a primarily carbohydrate food like bread or grams of the carbohydrate content of bread?

It's the bit I've highlighted in red - the figures Ano was quoting are specifically grams of carbohydrate itself, not something that society chooses to refer to as a 'carbohydrate' food simply because they are dominant in the food.