Guy or girl pays when dating?

[hyrulemaster]

Hey guys (and girls haha),

A thread on Yahoo! got me thinking about this. Some girl posted that her boyfriend did not pay everytime on dates, and that they are both crunched for cash, but it lowers her view of him.

For comments on that thread there were very mixed responses - some people said that its downright offensive for the guy to ask the girl to split the bill, and some people said if women want equal rights they should pay, or that women should split the bill out of courtesy, or whoever arranged the date pays.

What do you think? Does the guy always have to pay? Can the girl pay?

[BigBUBBA]

Guy. For sure. It's just like a guy asking a girl out:it's not right for a girl to ask a dude out, so why would it be right for her to pay when a guy asked her out?

[35ft6]

If you're in a serious relationship, play it by ear. But if you ask her out, you should pay. I know girls who say that if they're not interested, they'll insist on paying dutch.

If it's dutch, the girl should probably suggest ahead of time, and it's pretty much code for "I like you as a friend."

The guy paying, I've noticed, is a chauvinist tradition that feminists seem strangely fond of. Luckily, I don't mind spending money on people I like, be it close male friends or a great girl. But if you're strapped for cash, don't see why the girlfriend would sweat you for not paying all the time. At some point, it's not even a matter of being considerate or cheap, it's just straight up economically not feasible.

[GAZ082]

Split. It's easy when you date with parent's money, i used to pay all to my first gf, but once you start working for your salt, and chicks come and go, you start trying to keep things balanced.

That and not mentioning the 2 balls my actual gf has lost...

[Lakoste]

I usually, if not always, pay.

[mellofelow]

I'm more old-fashioned so obviously should be the guy.

However, if she feels obligated, or being considerate to pitch in once in a while, she's a keeper.

[yodudedudeyo]

wait bigbubba, it's not right for a girl to ask a guy out? that i disagree with. sure, the guy could pay for the girl, but i think it's 100% alright for the girl to ask. in fact, i prefer it, takes pressure off the guy and helps get rid of double standards.

[emcee]

You make the date...you pay. And of course, 95% of the time, it's the guy making the date. Of course, this is academic cause I've never been asked out or paid for by a girl before...

Oh wait, a girl asked me out once, but I said no...I should've went with it to find out...

[Freedom]

I think the guy pays. If the guy and girl are going out as friends, the girl might argue and make a fuss about paying her part of it, but I still feel it's polite and the right thing to do for the guy to pay.

[Cavallino]

Both......

[mucat]

Pay for the meal, guys. Don't be a cheap bas****, be a gentleman, pay for it. Unless she really insists.

[zapvor]

not paying doesnt mean you are cheap. geez

[armand]

Whomever is better looking pays. Think about it.

[mucat]

not paying doesnt mean you are cheap. geez

Tell me what does that mean then?

[zapvor]

Tell me what does that mean then?

it can mean so many things. i hope i dont have to write out the list. i cant it's endless.

i dont know...
-you brought a $400 wine to share
-you paid last time
-you will pay next time
-you are going somewhere else afterward/before and you picked up teh tab
-you will pay for drinks at the club after ($5 per redheaded sl*t)
-etc etc

but even beside all that, even if you dont pay without the above list it still doesnt make you cheap. just because its a date you dont have to get all 1950s women in the kitchen men in the suit and pay for dinner crap. its 2007. women can pay.

[mucat]

-you brought a $400 wine to share

If you think it is too much, don't borrow the wine from your parent to try to impress the girl, pay the bill instead. If the girl cares about the $400 wine, she is either an alcoholic or she is out of your league.

-you paid last time
Just means she wants to have another date with you, does not mean you can have a free meal.

-you will pay next time
It will not be a next time.

-you are going somewhere else afterward/before and you picked up teh tab

Duh!!!!!??? Cheap!! So you are already counting and bookkeeping who paid last time before you got the girl???


-you will pay for drinks at the club after ($5 per redheaded sl*t)
-etc etc

It's not her problem. If you don't have the money, don't go out with girls. You don't pretend to be a big spender in front of every girls and then when you go one on one, you tell the girl to pay, this is low.

but even beside all that, even if you dont pay without the above list it still doesnt make you cheap. just because its a date you dont have to get all 1950s women in the kitchen men in the suit and pay for dinner crap. its 2007. women can pay.

I am not saying girls cannot pay, I am just saying, as a guy, a real gentleman, we should try our best to pay for the meal and make the experience as comfort as possible for the GIRL, not you...

[mucat]

if i am having dinner with a girl on a date, and i can get a free meal out of it, i dont see why not. it doesnt mean you are cheap.

Ok, I didn't even see this one. If this is not the definition of cheapness, I don't know what it is.

[heycal]

Money is power. Always try and pay.

[mucat]

Money is power. Always try and pay.

...and no pay, no boom boom

[SoBad]

It depends. If the girl is hot and you're not, then you should pay for dinner. If you're hot and she's not, then she should pay for dinner (and perhaps give you some cash too before you kick her out in the morning).

[mucat]

It depends. If the girl is hot and you're not, then you should pay for dinner. If you're hot and she's not, then she should pay for dinner (and perhaps give you some cash too before you kick her out in the morning).

She might have some friends or sisters who might be hot...pay the bill...

[SoBad]

She might have some friends or sisters who might be hot...pay the bill...

If you're hot and she's not, then doing the right thing (having her pay bills, like dinner, etc.) will only motivate her to do the right thing (introducing you to her sisters/friends that are more worthy of your attention).

[mucat]

If you're hot and she's not, then doing the right thing (having her pay bills, like dinner, etc.) will only motivate her to do the right thing (introducing you to her sisters/friends that are more worthy of your attention).

Right...

word of mouth...she might tell her friends how cheap and a jerk you are. And she is a girl, girls can be exaggerating sometimes...

If I know a girl who is not good, I will not introduce her to my friends.

[35ft6]

Pay for the meal, guys. Don't be a cheap bas****, be a gentleman, pay for it. Unless she really insists.And why isn't the girl being cheap if she doesn't pay?

The whole notion of the guy paying is a remnant of the days when women were treated like cute little second class citizens who needed to be protected, being so physically and mentally weak and all.

I know girls who go on dates just for free food and drinks even though they have absolutely no interest in the guy. On one hand, I think they should try to get as much out of men as they can while they're young and cute because once they hit 33 or so, they lose a considerable amount of power, especially in a place like Los Angeles. Guys just want sex, so girls might as well just want free food and alcohol. On the other hand, I think both genders should be more honest and treat others as they would like to be treated... so if one person likes free dinners, perhaps they should treat sometimes knowing how much joy it can bring a person.

[ShooterMcMarco]

Money is power. Always try and pay.

Can we go out sometime?

[mucat]

And why isn't the girl being cheap if she doesn't pay?

The whole notion of the guy paying is a remnant of the days when women were treated like cute little second class citizens who needed to be protected, being so physically and mentally weak and all.

I know girls who go on dates just for free food and drinks even though they have absolutely no interest in the guy. On one hand, I think they should try to get as much out of men as they can while they're young and cute because once they hit 33 or so, they lose a considerable amount of power, especially in a place like Los Angeles. Guys just want sex, so girls might as well just want free food and alcohol. On the other hand, I think both genders should be more honest and treat others as they would like to be treated... so if one person likes free dinners, perhaps they should treat sometimes knowing how much joy it can bring a person.

I am not saying girls cannot pay, I am just saying, as a guy, a real gentleman, we should try our best to pay for the meal and make the experience as comfort as possible for the GIRL, not you...

For those free meal girls, the guys will just have to be more selective and smart about who they go out with. Always think with the big head...

[SoBad]

Right...

word of mouth...she might tell her friends how cheap and a jerk you are. And she is a girl, girls can be exaggerating sometimes...

If I know a girl who is not good, I will not introduce her to my friends.

But if you know someone who is a good person who does the right thing, surely you would want to repay them in the same spirit by being a good person and doing the right thing.

[mucat]

But if you know someone who is a good person who does the right thing, surely you would want to repay them in the same spirit by being a good person and doing the right thing.

I personally don't consider asking a girl to pay up is a nice gesture, and I don't even know how a girl will repay this nice gesture.

[SoBad]

I personally don't consider asking a girl to pay up is a nice gesture, and I don't even know how a girl will repay this nice gesture.

If you're hot and the girl is not (yet has a brain cell or two), you shouldn't need to ask.

[MTChong]

I try to pay all the time

[mucat]

But if you know someone who is a good person who does the right thing, surely you would want to repay them in the same spirit by being a good person and doing the right thing.

If you're hot and the girl is not (yet has a brain cell or two), you shouldn't need to ask.

I am lost...loose...

[SoBad]

I am lost...loose...

Don't know what you mean.

[Maco_Andrej]

The person that asks for the date pays is how many people do it but if im having a date with a girl i would pay

[Maco_Andrej]

there is no reason why a girl cant pay. this is 2007 people. if they want same prize money for wimbledon, they better get their purse out at the dinner table too. f**k that.

also, even beyond the whole feminist/modern/whatever view, i dont see why not. if i am having dinner with a girl on a date, and i can get a free meal out of it, i dont see why not. it doesnt mean you are cheap.

i can see your not to good with the ladies or at least thats the impression your giving me and the rest of the forumies. Guys pay for dates thats the way it goes doesn't make me comfortable seeing a girl pay for the date

[SoBad]

i can see your not to good with the ladies or at least thats the impression your giving me and the rest of the forumies. Guys pay for dates thats the way it goes doesn't make me comfortable seeing a girl pay for the date

Perhaps the fact that ladies ARE willing to pay zapvor for dining with them is an indication that he IS "good with the ladies".;)

[Maco_Andrej]

Perhaps the fact that ladies ARE willing to pay zapvor for dining with them is an indication that he IS "good with the ladies".;)

i believe that doesn't make you good with the ladies that justs makes you a cheap ass because many girls offer to pay because its the right thing to do. By you being the ''Gentleman'' you should say never mind i will pay for it. If you let the girl pay it makes a ''Cheap Ass''

[richw76]

i believe that doesn't make you good with the ladies that justs makes you a cheap ass because many girls offer to pay because its the right thing to do. By you being the ''Gentleman'' you should say never mind i will pay for it. If you let the girl pay it makes a ''Cheap Ass''

It is maybe a little old fashioned but I think the guy should be prepared to pay. And if the girl offers to pay graciously pay anyway, saying she can get the next one or something. Once you're dating for awhile I still think the guy should try to pay, but if he's a little strapped for cash one week and the girlfriend pays but complains/thinks less you you she has some serious character flaws and you should run for the hills. She is a very selfish self centered person and you are looking at nothing but problems if you stay together.

[dave333]

I've never let a girl pay.

[shrakkie]

I always used to pay, everytime.

Now Its been 18months with my Gf and its getting pretty serious. We are both students and there are times where I just have no money at all and she wants to pay...That is really nice of her I feel.

On the whole though I would say I pay a lot more then she does.

Its just nice knowing that she doesn't take it for granted and so she appreciates it. She is also willing to help out when she needs to.

I think that is right balance to have.

[spot]

First few dates the guy has to pay. After that I think that the guy should probably offer but in my experience the woman will want to pay sometimes. With my girlfriend I probably pay 70% of the time and she pays 30% of the time. On expensive meals I will always pay because I have more disposable income than she does.

[MEAC_ALLAMERICAN]

Play it by ear, some women these days get offended.

[35ft6]

For those free meal girls, the guys will just have to be more selective and smart about who they go out with. Always think with the big head... I don't see anything wrong with a guy paying all the time, even if it's just for his guy friends if he makes more money. Whatever you want to do with your money is your deal. I just haven't heard a good argument for why it's better for the guy to pay. It's tradition, yes, but aside from the appeal to tradition line of thinking, never heard anything that suggests it's the intrinsically right thing to do. Personally, I think it's more fair if the person who asks pays, and/or the person who has more disposable income. But to suggest that somebody should always be on the receiving end solely on the basis of gender doesn't make any sense.

[PimpMyGame]

Just go out with rich, generous people and never pay.

[35ft6]

I always used to pay, everytime.

Now Its been 18months with my Gf and its getting pretty serious. We are both students and there are times where I just have no money at all and she wants to pay...That is really nice of her I feel. Holy dear sheep. It's a sad comment on society that this is noteworthy. When my girlfriend and I were both poor, we both paid for each other, although I, foolishly, spent way more than she did, mostly by abusing credit cards. Lesson learned. For her, I would have spent my last dime, but part of the reason why I loved her so much was for her generosity.

You would think if a woman expects a man to pay all the time, perhaps if they marry they should keep separate bank accounts and investment portfolios in keeping with her philosophy that relationships aren't a 50/50 proposition. I don't think a man should expect a woman to clean and cook and do laundry for him. All those old rules, when treated like expectations, should be thrown out the window.

At the same time, get it while you can ladies. I hang out with a bunch of guys in their late 20's and 30's, even early 40's, and they all want a hot 22 yo, so the pig-headed-ness definitely goes both ways.

[35ft6]

Just go out with rich, generous people and never pay. Rich people are some of the stingiest people I know (you think they got rich by throwing their money around?). Old money? Even stingier. The nouveau rich can sometimes be generous to the point of recklessness, but you have to get them when they're coked up or drunk. It's rare you meet somebody who's rich and generous, but at the same time, I don't see why anybody should expect to have things paid for by people they barely know regardless of their wealth.

[Punisha]

lol just to be a tool... i voted woman should always pay lol

[Steve Dykstra]

there is no reason why a girl cant pay. this is 2007 people. if they want same prize money for wimbledon, they better get their purse out at the dinner table too. f**k that.

also, even beyond the whole feminist/modern/whatever view, i dont see why not. if i am having dinner with a girl on a date, and i can get a free meal out of it, i dont see why not. it doesnt mean you are cheap.

You asked in another thread why women often blow you off without giving you a chance. I think it is because of the attitude you have towards them. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the woman paying once in a while, just that you appear to be very disrespectful of women and maybe that is why they don't offer you the time of day.

[richw76]

I always used to pay, everytime.

Now Its been 18months with my Gf and its getting pretty serious. We are both students and there are times where I just have no money at all and she wants to pay...That is really nice of her I feel.

On the whole though I would say I pay a lot more then she does.

Its just nice knowing that she doesn't take it for granted and so she appreciates it. She is also willing to help out when she needs to.

I think that is right balance to have.

She sounds like a keeper. That's the type of person you would want to be with long term. Just as an example my wife. She wants me to have the things that I want usually more than I really even want them, because she wants me to be happy.

Also, some people mentioned how feminist types want to essentially have there cake and eat it to. My answer is who doesn't? ;-) But seriously I think women should be equal in the work place etc., and if they are doing equal work as well as her male counterparts she should be compensated accordingly. That's not to say men and women are the same. I would never tell my wife to get in the kitchen and cook my dinner or to go clean a bathroom, but I'm a guy, and there are certain things that must be accomplished in a household for it to function properly. My wife has no interest in doing lawn work, taking out the garbage, changing light bulbs, etc. I have no desire to wash the clothes(which she doesn't mind doing). We work as a team and everything gets done.

The who pays thing should be the same. I know alot of you guys are much younger than me but my dad gave me some good advice.

I asked him whats the secret to a long happy marriage.... he said Choosing the right one.

I'm rambling a little but you get my point I think.

[PimpMyGame]

Rich people are some of the stingiest people I know (you think they got rich by throwing their money around?). Old money? Even stingier. The nouveau rich can sometimes be generous to the point of recklessness, but you have to get them when they're coked up or drunk. It's rare you meet somebody who's rich and generous, but at the same time, I don't see why anybody should expect to have things paid for by people they barely know regardless of their wealth.

I'm rich and generous, even when I'm not coked up or drunk.

I think you've been hanging out with the wrong type of rich person.

[hyrulemaster]

I am just saying, as a guy, a real gentleman, we should try our best to pay for the meal and make the experience as comfort as possible for the GIRL, not you...

Well why is everything for the girl? What does the girl have to do to make the guy comfortable? Nothing?
Dating is a mutual thing and it should not be so one sided as the guy giving everything to the girl with nothing but her company in return. Does that mean the guy's company is not worth as much as the girl's, given that he has to pay for hers, and she gets free stuff to cope with him. Guys and girls should alternate - if the guy paying means he's gentlemanly, then it would be nice to see some gentlewomen (ladies) around here who dont think they're worth so much for the guy to pay for them every single time.

I was talking to one of my girl female friends a few days ago and she said that a guy who does not have a car should never ask a woman who does have a car out because apparently it means "he's too much of a bum, and shouldn't think of going out with that girl," but if "they both didn't have cars it's okay." She said that because the "guy always has to pick up the girl, not the other way."
I thought that was ridiculous that she herself would rule out going out with a carless guy when she gets a car.

Why is the guy expected to be generous and the girl isn't expected to (do anything really)?

[diegaa]

on the first date I always pay with a "dont worry, this one is on me". But I state CLEARLY that the next time is on her. I believe the guys shouldnt pay every time (didnt the females want equal treatment since god knows how long?).

[richw76]

I was talking to one of my girl female friends a few days ago and she said that a guy who does not have a car should never ask a woman who does have a car out because apparently it means "he's too much of a bum, and shouldn't think of going out with that girl," but if "they both didn't have cars it's okay." She said that because the "guy always has to pick up the girl, not the other way."
I thought that was ridiculous that she herself would rule out going out with a carless guy when she gets a car.


Yep, she sounds typical. Also, most guys would never say I won't date a girl because she doesn't have a car. When I was in my 20's I dated for awhile, I had a beat up subaru Justy that overheated. I dated plenty but probably lost a few mainly due to my car.... and did I mention I lived with my mom. But I had goals and ambition. I ended up finding and dating my then girlfriend, I ended up not having a car and she drove me to school all the time. Anyway, we are very comfortable financially now. If she just judged me based on were I was at that point in my life in my opinion she would have missed out :-) you know like buying yahoo stock in '91 or something.

[Janne]

I´m all for equal right, and with that I mean equal rights, NOT that women will have it better than men. I havent exactly been on many dates for a 17 year old kid but I´ve always paid for both of us with my own money. I´ve just been raised by my father to always treat girls nicely and I dont really mind. It's not like I´m shelling out hundreds of dollars on a date.

With that being said, I think the least you could do is pay half the bill even if it's the girl that asks you out and even if the date doesnt turn out to be as fun as you were hoping it would do.


Cheers,
Janne

[princess bossass]

I don't see anything wrong with a guy paying all the time, even if it's just for his guy friends if he makes more money. Whatever you want to do with your money is your deal. I just haven't heard a good argument for why it's better for the guy to pay. It's tradition, yes, but aside from the appeal to tradition line of thinking, never heard anything that suggests it's the intrinsically right thing to do. Personally, I think it's more fair if the person who asks pays, and/or the person who has more disposable income. But to suggest that somebody should always be on the receiving end solely on the basis of gender doesn't make any sense.

35 ft 6, you always say such sensible things!

I voted whoever asks should pay, but I was thinking more along the lines of a first date. After that, there are just too many factors involved to even commit to THAT logic. For example, when I'm broke, my BF pays if we want to go out, and vice versa. If we're doing something that *I* really, really want to do and he's just coming along to be nice, I pay, and vice versa. If we're seeing one of his lame monster movies, he pays. If we're on a lame vacation with my parents, I pay. And so on.

The whole "50/50" thing just seems too mechanical, more like a business deal than a relationship. Splitting every date down the middle would be painful--what, do you whip out a calculator at the dinner table? You could call me a "modern woman"--even a feminist--but I'm not above breaking the balance once in a while. When my BF first moved here, he had no job for 6 months, and I paid for everything--rent, bills, groceries, going out, etc. I didn't think he was cheap, or a loser--I realized he was making a career change and I was in a good position to help him out. Now I'm preparing to move and thus am a little strapped, so he's paying most of the bills and etc. Recently he just found a great tennis racquet for me, and I said I couldn't afford it, but he just kind of winked and said, "Well, I'll get it for myself, and you can use it." He didn't do that because I'm his little woman, but because he likes to see me happy. On the other hand, I do all the cooking and a good deal of the cleaning, not because I'm a woman, but because a) I'm better at it, b) there are things he always does for me that I like to make up for, and c) I love him and like to feed him and keep his house looking nice.

About the first date thing though, I think the communication goes both ways. If a guy asks me out and I refuse to let him pay, I agree that that's a sign he's in the friend zone. On the other hand, if he asks me out and then expects me to pay my half, I then gather that it's NOT a date, and if I had thought so previously, I was wrong. In fact, one way I've been able to tell that guys friends were trying to "exit the friend zone" and step things up was when they actually started treating me more like a "lady"--paying for things, holding doors, giving me his hand to get over rough terrain while hiking, etc. I'm usually kind of "one of the guys," so this kind of treatment doesn't go unnoticed--it sends me a message. And if I refuse this kind of treatment, he gets the message. It's kind of silly, I know, but it's a form of communication that seems almost unavoidable. I certainly don't *expect* my bf to hold doors and pay for things, yet if I guy insists on doing those thing I take it as a sign he's interested...

For the record, some of you have some pretty messed up notions of what a "typical" woman is like! :grin: Makes me wonder how many of you have had serious (meaning, 1 year plus) relationships...;)

[mucat]

I agree with a lot of posters said the guys usually pay the first few time, then as the date get serious, the girl will usually offer to pay. However, as a guy, you don't court the calendar and mark the date on when she should pay. It is all about mentality, the guy should be prepared to pay all the time. Even if the girl insists and paid most of the time, the guy should still try to pay the every next time.

Well why is everything for the girl?
Be a gentleman. That's what it is all about.

What does the girl have to do to make the guy comfortable?
Hey, they go out with you and took hrs to put makeups and dress good. However, if this is not good enough for you, you need to go to those chest massage place, do a search here.

Nothing?
So they have to do something for you to deserve you paying for the meal?? They are not your slave.

[zapvor]

If you think it is too much, don't borrow the wine from your parent to try to impress the girl, pay the bill instead. If the girl cares about the $400 wine, she is either an alcoholic or she is out of your league.


Just means she wants to have another date with you, does not mean you can have a free meal.


It will not be a next time.



Duh!!!!!??? Cheap!! So you are already counting and bookkeeping who paid last time before you got the girl???




It's not her problem. If you don't have the money, don't go out with girls. You don't pretend to be a big spender in front of every girls and then when you go one on one, you tell the girl to pay, this is low.



I am not saying girls cannot pay, I am just saying, as a guy, a real gentleman, we should try our best to pay for the meal and make the experience as comfort as possible for the GIRL, not you...

damn...interesting. we have completely different philosophies.

[zapvor]

i can see your not to good with the ladies or at least thats the impression your giving me and the rest of the forumies. Guys pay for dates thats the way it goes doesn't make me comfortable seeing a girl pay for the date

hahahahahahha.

[zapvor]

I have to agree, women seem to want to hand pick the best things about being a man and have them for themselves but as soon as it comes to something that doesn't suit them they bring out all their feminine qualities and expect to be treated like a woman. What it to be ladies!?

When the Titanic sank did they give the life boats to all the men and children? Of course not! I can imagine all the feminists who were acting all macho to get equal rights soon turned on their feminine charm and gracefully pranced into the boat and were off. :)


exactly.no switching sides depending on the situation.

[tricky]

To be honest, I really fight with this one, because it can turn into an issue of power, especially if a lot of money is being thrown down on the date. My best friend often insisted on paying for herself during the early dating phase, because she didn't want to create expectations (i.e. sex) for the guy. And so I always took that heart. I'd rather it be a split, not because I'm not a nice guy, but because I want to play fair on the first date.

That said, yes, you should always offer to take the check. You would look REALLY BAD if she expects you to pay, and you don't follow through.

[zapvor]

You asked in another thread why women often blow you off without giving you a chance. I think it is because of the attitude you have towards them. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the woman paying once in a while, just that you appear to be very disrespectful of women and maybe that is why they don't offer you the time of day.

i am not being disrespectful. thats dumb and rude. i try to be a nice guy. in fact i have been taken advantage of way too many times for being too nice. but thats besides the point. not paying does not mean disrespectful. wrong cause-effect relationship

[tricky]

Yeah, I think the proper etiquette for people like me who prefer splits is "I'll take this one, you'll take the next." Especially if we're buying drinks. but if you want to do this, you need to say so pretty early on.

[PimpMyGame]

My best friend often insisted on paying for herself during the early dating phase, because she didn't want to create expectations (i.e. sex) for the guy.

Yup, I paid for the meal on my last first date and got sex. It was a fair trade.

[zapvor]

Yup, I paid for the meal on my last first date and got sex. It was a fair trade.

LOL.....i love this thread

[PimpMyGame]

LOL.....i love this thread

Yeah, you haven't heard the last of my story...the last first date was with my future wife and we celebrate our 10th wedding anniversary this summer.

[zapvor]

Yeah, you haven't heard the last of my story...the last first date was with my future wife and we celebrate our 10th wedding anniversary this summer.

oh snap. i was going to make fun of you too. haha i got owned. thats crazy. congrats! i think in this day and age most people dont make it past 5 years. so...whos paying the anniversary dinner huh;)

[PimpMyGame]

Cheers zapvor, bet it's me paying for the dinner but if past performance is anything to go by then it could be a late night;)

[StealthGnome]

I'll pay if I have money.

[zapvor]

Cheers zapvor, bet it's me paying for the dinner but if past performance is anything to go by then it could be a late night;)

cheers to you!

[heycal]

Can we go out sometime?

Hoping for the trickle down effect? Sure, kid. You can hang with me.

I try to pay all the time

Smart move.

I always used to pay, everytime.

Now Its been 18months with my Gf and its getting pretty serious. We are both students and there are times where I just have no money at all and she wants to pay...That is really nice of her I feel.


At this point, you've moved past the dating stage, so who pays doesn't matter much anymore. Basically, once you've got a girl and deliver the goods, you can do whatever you want.;)

It's tradition, yes, but aside from the appeal to tradition line of thinking, never heard anything that suggests it's the intrinsically right thing to do. Personally, I think it's more fair if the person who asks pays, and/or the person who has more disposable income. But to suggest that somebody should always be on the receiving end solely on the basis of gender doesn't make any sense.

True. But it's a tradition I think is in men's interest, so I think it's a good idea for that reason, not because "it's the right thing to do."

At the same time, get it while you can ladies. I hang out with a bunch of guys in their late 20's and 30's, even early 40's, and they all want a hot 22 yo, so the pig-headed-ness definitely goes both ways.

True. A woman's power and value sinks faster than a stone in a lake after the age of 30, and she might as well enjoy her short shelf life of free meals and attention.

Zapvor, you asked in another thread why women often blow you off without giving you a chance. I think it is because of the attitude you have towards them. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the woman paying once in a while, just that you appear to be very disrespectful of women and maybe that is why they don't offer you the time of day.

Actually, in the real world of success or failure with women, it matters little whether one is respectful or disrespectful of women or their attitudes towards them, despite what you might hear. It's smart to pay because it's in your interests to gain every advantage possible, not because you want to "make them comfortable" or "you respect them" or are trying to be nice or any of that garbage.

If Zapvor says he's gettting blown off by women, it appears to be because he's making several mistakes, from being "too nice" at certain times to not wanting to pay for dates at other times.

Try the reverse, Zapvor. You should see results.:p

I was talking to one of my girl female friends a few days ago and she said that a guy who does not have a car should never ask a woman who does have a car out because apparently it means "he's too much of a bum, and shouldn't think of going out with that girl," but if "they both didn't have cars it's okay." She said that because the "guy always has to pick up the girl, not the other way."
I thought that was ridiculous that she herself would rule out going out with a carless guy when she gets a car.

Why is the guy expected to be generous and the girl isn't expected to (do anything really)?

If you have other winning attributes, you don't need a car, or money, or anything, to succeed with women. It's more about attitude and making smart decisions, not about what you drive or how much money you make.

on the first date I always pay with a "dont worry, this one is on me". But I state CLEARLY that the next time is on her. I believe the guys shouldnt pay every time (didnt the females want equal treatment since god knows how long?).

Girls don't want equal treatment. Ignore that nonsense. And if you are on a first date with a woman, and "state CLEARLY" on this first date that you expect her to pay next time, I'm guessing there won't be a next time...

Hey, what happened to that other guy who said he called some women some names for not tipping the bartender, and then slipped the bartender a fiver himself while the women sat at a table with some other guys? I liked that post... And am guessing those other guys went home with the girls while he went home with the bartender.:o

[stoutman11]

This is a great topic!

BOTTOM LINE:

IF you are a man, regardless of who did the asking, you should pay for the FIRST date.

IF you enjoy the girl and go out on several other dates you should still offer to pay for those too. HOWEVER if after a couple dates the girl is not offering to pay for a date or to or at least her share of the date thats when you know that this is not a "quality" girl. Dont waste your time anymore.

Any good-hearted, ethical, sound minded girl that enjoys your company should be eager to show she is interested in your company and pay up for a date or so.

After about 3-6 months you should be splitting all afairs or taking turns with the dates. Soon the "love" word will be bantered around and you should want to take care of each other financially and emotionally.

[princess bossass]

True. A woman's power and value sinks faster than a stone in a lake after the age of 30, and she might as well enjoy her short shelf life of free meals and attention.

Honestly, I think 30 might even be generous. Which is too bad, really, because a lot of women in their 20s are clueless (I can speak to this, as I am one).

]Actually, in the real world of success or failure with women, it matters little whether one is respectful or disrespectful of women or their attitudes towards them, despite what you might hear.

Uh, this may be true, but only if you only care to succeed with women who have no self respect. Smart, savvy women expect to be treated with respect not because they're women, but because they're respectable people who earn respect. And by "treated with respect" I mean just that, not "treated like fragile dolls/royalty/special creatures."

It's smart to pay because it's in your interests to gain every advantage possible, not because you want to "make them comfortable" or "you respect them" or are trying to be nice or any of that garbage.

I salute your honestly.

]If Zapvor says he's gettting blown off by women, it appears to be because he's making several mistakes, from being "too nice" at certain times to not wanting to pay for dates at other times.

Or it could be because some women are mean and shallow. Who knows?


Hey, what happened to that other guy who said he called some women some names for not tipping the bartender, and then slipped the bartender a fiver himself while the women sat at a table with some other guys? I liked that post... And am guessing those other guys went home with the girls while he went home with the bartender.:o

I liked that post too (bad tippers just shouldn't be allowed in decent places), although I doubt calling two strangers "****s" exactly demonstrates class and savoir faire. ;)

[J011yroger]

Hey, what happened to that other guy who said he called some women some names for not tipping the bartender, and then slipped the bartender a fiver himself while the women sat at a table with some other guys? I liked that post... And am guessing those other guys went home with the girls while he went home with the bartender.:o

I didn't see who went home with whom, but the bar staff voiced their support of my opinion. And my friends were rather amused, even though they would expect such from me.

J

[mucat]

I completely agree with heycal. You are basically trying to selling a product here, paying the meal will only increase the chance of she buying it. It is all about increasing the chance. Always go for the high % shots, you guys should know better.

I agree with stoutman11's summary too.

[J011yroger]

I liked that post too (bad tippers just shouldn't be allowed in decent places), although I doubt calling two strangers "****s" exactly demonstrates class and savoir faire. ;)

I would like to carry myself with class, but that really got under my skin, no problem walking around in $500 Louis Vuitton flip flops, but leaving more than a buck for $20 worth of drinks is just too much?

I used to work in a restaurant/bar when I was younger, and tip overly well. And I am the guy who treats the CEO and the guy who sweeps the floor with the same amount of respect, just as how I would like to be treated.

Conversely I have no problem telling someone in a higher position who talks down to me because they think they are the big dog, or some pretty girl who expects to get what they want just because they are pretty to go F*** themselves.


J

[J011yroger]

^^^What a post to be my 1,000th

[princess bossass]

I would like to carry myself with class, but that really got under my skin, no problem walking around in $500 Louis Vuitton flip flops, but leaving more than a buck for $20 worth of drinks is just too much?

I used to work in a restaurant/bar when I was younger, and tip overly well. And I am the guy who treats the CEO and the guy who sweeps the floor with the same amount of respect, just as how I would like to be treated.

Conversely I have no problem telling someone in a higher position who talks down to me because they think they are the big dog, or some pretty girl who expects to get what they want just because they are pretty to go F*** themselves.

J

Oh, I don't doubt that they deserved it. I'm just joshin'.:D

[CanadianChic]

PB, there is actually a thread kicking around regarding tipping in restaurants which you may get a kick out of - quite revealing of the mindset of some posters.

As for this thread, it is unfortunate that there aren't more females getting their thoughts in here. If someone takes me out for dinner expecting "favours" as a thank-you for the breaking-bread experience they just wasted some money. As stated earlier, there are many factors to be considered when I ponder this issue, but the one thing I am certain of is that if someone asks me on a date and oh, so generously pays for the meal as a prelude for things to come, he'll be spending some quality time getting to know himself a little better for dessert. ;)

[princess bossass]

PB, there is actually a thread kicking around regarding tipping in restaurants which you may get a kick out of - quite revealing of the mindset of some posters.

Yeah, I've skimmed that one a few times, and your assessment pretty much nails it--revelatory indeed! ;)

As for this thread, it is unfortunate that there aren't more females getting their thoughts in here. If someone takes me out for dinner expecting "favours" as a thank-you for the breaking-bread experience they just wasted some money. As stated earlier, there are many factors to be considered when I ponder this issue, but the one thing I am certain of is that if someone asks me on a date and oh, so generously pays for the meal as a prelude for things to come, he'll be spending some quality time getting to know himself a little better for dessert. ;)

Agreed! And we don't have to read a thread like this to know that a lot of guys *do* think they're setting themselves up for a "sure thing" by shelling out for an expensive date--but we're not as dumb as they assume. We can tell what they're doing. :-o

[tricky]

If someone takes me out for dinner expecting "favours" as a thank-you for the breaking-bread experience they just wasted some money.

A lot of men think this way if a lot of money is being paid. It's not about sex on first date per se, but about maybe getting a first kiss if the date went fairly well or something else.

Heycal's pretty spot on with his observations. It's cynical, but dating gets more cynical.

[CanadianChic]

A lot of men think this way if a lot of money is being paid. It's not about sex on first date per se, but about maybe getting a first kiss if the date went fairly well or something else.

Heycal's pretty spot on with his observations. It's cynical, but dating gets more cynical.

Sex, kiss, holding hands....it all boils down to the same thing. Speaking for myself, I am not for sale - whether it be a ticket to a movie or a meal at a five star restaurant. Men have a certain level of expectation depending on their own personal character and unless the only thing he is "openly" asking for is another chance to spend some time together and to get to know me better, then he just lost the chance. I do not expect or even want to be taken to a fancy restaurant on a first date, nor for the man to empty his bank account trying to please me. If he feels the need to do that for me to think he's a great guy then he's obviously not what I'm looking for to begin with.

[zapvor]

I would like to carry myself with class, but that really got under my skin, no problem walking around in $500 Louis Vuitton flip flops, but leaving more than a buck for $20 worth of drinks is just too much?

I used to work in a restaurant/bar when I was younger, and tip overly well. And I am the guy who treats the CEO and the guy who sweeps the floor with the same amount of respect, just as how I would like to be treated.

Conversely I have no problem telling someone in a higher position who talks down to me because they think they are the big dog, or some pretty girl who expects to get what they want just because they are pretty to go F*** themselves.


J
i love it. those girls dont even deserve what you did for them.

[zapvor]

Sex, kiss, holding hands....it all boils down to the same thing. Speaking for myself, I am not for sale - whether it be a ticket to a movie or a meal at a five star restaurant. Men have a certain level of expectation depending on their own personal character and unless the only thing he is "openly" asking for is another chance to spend some time together and to get to know me better, then he just lost the chance. I do not expect or even want to be taken to a fancy restaurant on a first date, nor for the man to empty his bank account trying to please me. If he feels the need to do that for me to think he's a great guy then he's obviously not what I'm looking for to begin with.

thank you. i was hoping a girl would say it so i wont be labeled as...you know. for all those previous posts saying how i wont have a 2nd date because apparently i am being cheap by not paying, hahahahah you just got owned!

[tricky]

If he feels the need to do that for me to think he's a great guy then he's obviously not what I'm looking for to begin with.

It works subtly into male-female relationships. If the date goes badly, a lot of guys will privately say "I paid X, but I got Y instead. I'm never going to pay X again." At least there's the expectation that the woman would be grateful or at least agreeable if he pays for the date.

It's also context, since what is "a lot" depends on their income and regular social habits. Some people frequently do $50-100 dinners because they like fine establishments. Other people (i.e. teenage kids) sweat if it's anything above dinner and a movie.

[CanadianChic]

thank you. i was hoping a girl would say it so i wont be labeled as...you know. for all those previous posts saying how i wont have a 2nd date because apparently i am being cheap by not paying, hahahahah you just got owned!

Are you referring to me Zap or others who have responded to you?

It works subtly into male-female relationships. If the date goes badly, a lot of guys will privately say "I paid X, but I got Y instead. I'm never going to pay X again." At least there's the expectation that the woman would be grateful or at least agreeable if he pays for the date.

It's also context, since what is "a lot" depends on their income and regular social habits. Some people frequently do $50-100 dinners because they like fine establishments. Other people (i.e. teenage kids) sweat if it's anything above dinner and a movie.

I agree on context - which is why I have stated twice that there are factors that I consider. If a male is disappointed because he spent X, expected Y and therefore will never make an effort or equal X again, then he lucked out on all the O's he would have experienced down the road. I appreciate when a man goes out of his way to impress me, but do not feel that the spending of money is necessary to do so. One of my last "first" dates consisted of dinner at his place which he cooked.

I think a lot of men are misguided in their need to impress by shelling out the cash which is unfortunate. I also think a lot of women demand this type of treatment which is also unfortunate.

[zapvor]

Are you referring to me Zap or others who have responded to you?

.

to you baby. thanks! people were saying how no 2nd date because you dont pay, and i wanted to bash them so bad, but having you come out and say it for me is just priceless.:)

[princess bossass]

Sex, kiss, holding hands....it all boils down to the same thing. Speaking for myself, I am not for sale - whether it be a ticket to a movie or a meal at a five star restaurant. Men have a certain level of expectation depending on their own personal character and unless the only thing he is "openly" asking for is another chance to spend some time together and to get to know me better, then he just lost the chance. I do not expect or even want to be taken to a fancy restaurant on a first date, nor for the man to empty his bank account trying to please me. If he feels the need to do that for me to think he's a great guy then he's obviously not what I'm looking for to begin with.

Exactly! Why should I expect someone to spend a fortune on me before we're even sure we like one another?!

I used to wonder why "dates" so frequently involved me sitting in a restaurant I'd never usually go to, wearing clothes I'd never usually wear, eating food way more expensive than I'd usually eat, making small talk I wouldn't usually bother with...and THAT is how I'm supposed to get to know someone better (in man-speak: decide if I want to eventually sleep with this person)?? That's why fancy-pants break-the-bank "dates" never tripped my trigger or seemed romantic to me, and I've always liked the casual stuff better. Take me to a state park and pack some sandwiches.

[spot]

zapvor- you might want to read a little closer- she isn't saying that she pays her half on a date, just that the guy doesn't have to pick a really expensive place for the date to impress her.

In my experience a good first date is taking the girl to an ethnic restaurant like ethiopian or something like that to see how she handles herself in places she isn't generally accustomed to but not in a formal setting. If she isn't adventurous enough to try a new restaurant then she is probably too stuffy for me to date.

[tricky]

I think a lot of men are misguided in their need to impress by shelling out the cash which is unfortunate. I also think a lot of women demand this type of treatment which is also unfortunate.

Oh I agree -- money is to men what cleavage is to women. Come to think of it, I think each is the reason for the other. ;)

.and THAT is how I'm supposed to get to know someone better (in man-speak: decide if I want to eventually sleep with this person)??

First dates are job interviews. A lot of puffing up of resumes, a lot of Q&A continuated by pretended enthusiasm, etc. The end goal is to get to the 2nd interview. Then the 3rd, 4th, etc.

[zapvor]

zapvor- you might want to read a little closer- she isn't saying that she pays her half on a date, just that the guy doesn't have to pick a really expensive place for the date to impress her.

In my experience a good first date is taking the girl to an ethnic restaurant like ethiopian or something like that to see how she handles herself in places she isn't generally accustomed to but not in a formal setting. If she isn't adventurous enough to try a new restaurant then she is probably too stuffy for me to date.

um....i am using her post directed at the other guys' posts. hopefully they get the point.

ethiopian is fun. no forks! and beef tongue....yum?

[CanadianChic]

Exactly! Why should I expect someone to spend a fortune on me before we're even sure we like one another?!

I used to wonder why "dates" so frequently involved me sitting in a restaurant I'd never usually go to, wearing clothes I'd never usually wear, eating food way more expensive than I'd usually eat, making small talk I wouldn't usually bother with...and THAT is how I'm supposed to get to know someone better (in man-speak: decide if I want to eventually sleep with this person)?? That's why fancy-pants break-the-bank "dates" never tripped my trigger or seemed romantic to me, and I've always liked the casual stuff better. Take me to a state park and pack some sandwiches.

PB, I think we're cut from the same cloth here. I could not agree more!! On a "first" date, I want to get to know him better. I want to feel comfortable and at ease with this man - there are plenty of times to enjoy fancy restaurants and stuffy situations in the future - let's just be ourselves and have some fun for now. When a man remembers that I don't like crushed ice in my drinks and am allergic to coconut, now that makes me smile. I could care less if he makes six figures and drives a fancy sports car and thinks I am superficial enough to ooh and ahh over his every fake word in a fake setting. lol. Besides, when I am hungry I eat (and I mean pack it back) and the portion sizes in some of the more swank restaurants leaves me less than satisfied.

[heycal]

A smart man pays for the date not because he thinks he's going to score by doing so. It's because NOT paying for the date all but insures he won't.

[heycal]

In my experience a good first date is taking the girl to an ethnic restaurant like ethiopian or something like that to see how she handles herself in places she isn't generally accustomed to but not in a formal setting.

It's also a good idea to find out how she handles herself around animals or small children.

[35ft6]

I'm rich and generous, even when I'm not coked up or drunk.

I think you've been hanging out with the wrong type of rich person. Hung around with several types of rich people, and most are not foolish with their money.

[princess bossass]

It's also a good idea to find out how she handles herself around animals or small children.

Might not be a bad idea to throw in a few flaming hoops. And while you're at it, have her juggle some chainsaws. :rolleyes:

[princess bossass]

PB, I think we're cut from the same cloth here. I could not agree more!! On a "first" date, I want to get to know him better. I want to feel comfortable and at ease with this man - there are plenty of times to enjoy fancy restaurants and stuffy situations in the future - let's just be ourselves and have some fun for now. When a man remembers that I don't like crushed ice in my drinks and am allergic to coconut, now that makes me smile. I could care less if he makes six figures and drives a fancy sports car and thinks I am superficial enough to ooh and ahh over his every fake word in a fake setting. lol. Besides, when I am hungry I eat (and I mean pack it back) and the portion sizes in some of the more swank restaurants leaves me less than satisfied.

Same cloth indeed! Knowing how I take my coffee = way more important than the number of digits left of the decimal point. I doubt my amazing "first date" with the person I've been with for five years would "count" as a bona fide date to a lot of people, at least according to this thread--but it couldn't have been more perfect in my book, and couldn't have ended up better.

[heycal]

Honestly, I think 30 might even be generous. Which is too bad, really, because a lot of women in their 20s are clueless (I can speak to this, as I am one).


Let's call it 25 then. As for being clueless, well, youth is wasted on the young as the saying goes...



Uh, this may be true, but only if you only care to succeed with women who have no self respect. Smart, savvy women expect to be treated with respect not because they're women, but because they're respectable people who earn respect....

^
I stopped reading after "This may be true".



I liked that post too (bad tippers just shouldn't be allowed in decent places), although I doubt calling two strangers "****s" exactly demonstrates class and savoir faire. ;)

Exactly. That's part of what made that post so entertaining.;) (Though on a side note, I'm not sure why one should tip better just because it's a "high class establishment". One should tip appropriately everywhere.)


I didn't see who went home with whom, but the bar staff voiced their support of my opinion. And my friends were rather amused, even though they would expect such from me.


Not surprising. I'm guessing the bar staff is going to act pretty agreeable around some guy who suddenly turns on two women he doesn't know and angrily calls them _____'s regardless of who was right or wrong...



Conversely I have no problem telling someone in a higher position who talks down to me because they think they are the big dog, or some pretty girl who expects to get what they want just because they are pretty to go F*** themselves.


^
Reminds me why I love my fellows New Yorkers.:p

i love it. those girls dont even deserve what you did for them.

Um, I'm sure many would agree with you here....

thank you. i was hoping a girl would say it so i wont be labeled as...you know. for all those previous posts saying how i wont have a 2nd date because apparently i am being cheap by not paying, hahahahah you just got owned!

You're not doing so well in this thread, fella...

[zapvor]

Let's call it 25 then. As for being clueless, well, youth is wasted on the young as the saying goes...



^
I stopped reading after "This may be true".



Exactly. That's part of what made that post so entertaining.;) (Though on a side note, I'm not sure why one should tip better just because it's a "high class establishment". One should tip appropriately everywhere.)




Not surprising. I'm guessing the bar staff is going to act pretty agreeable around some guy who suddenly turns on two women he doesn't know and angrily calls them _____'s regardless of who was right or wrong...



^
Reminds me why I love my fellows New Yorkers.:p



Um, I'm sure many would agree with you here....



You're not doing so well in this thread, fella...
hahahahahahaa.

[richw76]

It's also a good idea to find out how she handles herself around animals or small children.

I understand where he's coming from. It's good to know early on how people deal with less than ideal situations sometimes. For example if you are at that ethiopian restaurant is she pointing, making faces, speaking badly about peoples food as they eat..... or you spend a bunch of money to go on a nice weekend trip and [fill in the blank] happens does she roll with the punches and have fun anyway or B@#$ and moan the whole time.

and for PB and CC I think you're right most girls that most guys want for a girlfriend don't care about extra decimals or the fancy sports cars so much. But common maybe not for you, but for many girls if you have a 20 year old beater, you may lose some dates. Unless you're in school and everyone is broke.... man I miss college <oops daydreaming mid sentence>

[J011yroger]

PB, I think we're cut from the same cloth here. I could not agree more!! On a "first" date, I want to get to know him better. I want to feel comfortable and at ease with this man - there are plenty of times to enjoy fancy restaurants and stuffy situations in the future - let's just be ourselves and have some fun for now. When a man remembers that I don't like crushed ice in my drinks and am allergic to coconut, now that makes me smile. I could care less if he makes six figures and drives a fancy sports car and thinks I am superficial enough to ooh and ahh over his every fake word in a fake setting. lol. Besides, when I am hungry I eat (and I mean pack it back) and the portion sizes in some of the more swank restaurants leaves me less than satisfied.

From a guy's (my) point of view, first dates are just to make sure the other person isn't crazy (Well we are all a little crazy, I look for 80% sane in people I date) and that you get along fairly well. I love coffee, or lunch for a first date, walk around on the town, so there is all kinds of stuff going on that you can talk about, privacy if you want it, no awkward silence. After I am sure I like someone, and I want to enjoy a nice place with them, that is when the $200 dinners happen. Not to impress them, not to be showy, but because I would enjoy going to a nice place with them. I love getting dressed to the nines and hitting the town, so that passersby look at us as a couple and say "Wow, where are they going?". But certainly not on a first or second date.

J

[tricky]

I love coffee, or lunch for a first date, walk around on the town, so there is all kinds of stuff going on that you can talk about, privacy if you want it, no awkward silence. After I am sure I like someone, and I want to enjoy a nice place with them, that is when the $200 dinners happen

This is very good advice. If you make the first date as informal and casual as possible, all this who buys who stuff doesn't really register. Asking somebody to coffee is a good 1st date. If it doesn't work out, you two can part without making a fuss.

Also, I just think walking while talking goes well with a first date. There's something about sitting opposite each other that's uncomfortable.

[mucat]

to you baby. thanks! people were saying how no 2nd date because you dont pay, and i wanted to bash them so bad, but having you come out and say it for me is just priceless.:)

You do know girls mean one thing and say another, or they mean one thing but the next second change to another thing, either consciously or subconsciously, no matter how logical or reasonable she might seem to be.

[CanadianChic]

Yeah, Mucat? I'm pretty sure who I am and what I stand for so let's not clump everyone into your little bowl of women soup, all righty? Thanks! ;)

[CanadianChic]

From a guy's (my) point of view, first dates are just to make sure the other person isn't crazy (Well we are all a little crazy, I look for 80% sane in people I date) and that you get along fairly well. I love coffee, or lunch for a first date, walk around on the town, so there is all kinds of stuff going on that you can talk about, privacy if you want it, no awkward silence. After I am sure I like someone, and I want to enjoy a nice place with them, that is when the $200 dinners happen. Not to impress them, not to be showy, but because I would enjoy going to a nice place with them. I love getting dressed to the nines and hitting the town, so that passersby look at us as a couple and say "Wow, where are they going?". But certainly not on a first or second date.

J

Well said!! :p

[mucat]

Yeah, Mucat? I'm pretty sure who I am and what I stand for so let's not clump everyone into your little bowl of women soup, all righty? Thanks! ;)

I am married for 10 yrs now, I can bet my wife is more logical and reasonable than most females (requirement for her profession). I know what I am talking about. In fact, my wife would say exactly what you just said "I'm pretty sure who I am and what I stand for", I am not questioning female's integrity here, my wife probably has more integrity than me. However, her choices of where to go to eat or where to go shopping can change every second usually while I am driving on the road and just passed the exit. And female does approach a discussion or conversation differently, which we males call it, "change their mind every second". It is just different, we like to admit it or not.

[NogaroS4]

I dont mind paying but you kno..a lil help with the bill every now and then is appreciated. I was just in a relationship that girl expected guy to pay for everything. Besides dates we go on there was a time we went to her friend's wedding (who I have never met). I pay for hotel and the wedding gift. I understand the hotel but the wedding gift as well?

[zapvor]

I am married for 10 yrs now, I can bet my wife is more logical and reasonable than most females (requirement for her profession). I know what I am talking about. In fact, my wife would say exactly what you just said "I'm pretty sure who I am and what I stand for", I am not questioning female's integrity here, my wife probably has more integrity than me. However, her choices of where to go to eat or where to go shopping can change every second usually while I am driving on the road and just passed the exit. And female does approach a discussion or conversation differently, which we males call it, "change their mind every second". It is just different, we like to admit it or not.

ohhhh you are married. no wonder you disagree with me LOL. now i see. yea buddy we are on completely different planets

[FitzRoy]

I vote "girl always pays", because I don't have any damn money.

[CanadianChic]

I am married for 10 yrs now, I can bet my wife is more logical and reasonable than most females (requirement for her profession). I know what I am talking about. In fact, my wife would say exactly what you just said "I'm pretty sure who I am and what I stand for", I am not questioning female's integrity here, my wife probably has more integrity than me. However, her choices of where to go to eat or where to go shopping can change every second usually while I am driving on the road and just passed the exit. And female does approach a discussion or conversation differently, which we males call it, "change their mind every second". It is just different, we like to admit it or not.

Okay, so your wife (although usually logical and reasonable) is a little on the fickle side when choosing restaurants? Sorry Mucat, but I fail to see how that relates to who should pay for the date. Nor, do I relate myself to that scenario either as I usually know three days ahead of time where I want to go and what I want to order. Everyone is different - that's my point. Just as all men do not make a big "move", not all women are flighty.

[kevywevyy]

guy always pays
Funny I heard a story of a guy who, when on a date, asked the waiter to keep tabs . Long story short...girl bought lots of drinks thinking the guy would buy. girl got bill. girl got pissed.
the guy used it as a "test" to see how the girl would react :confused:
I think it's wrong. amusing, but wrong

[GAZ082]

Today i just bought 4 cans of balls, 2 for her, 2 for me, and told her "tomorrow you pay the movie tickets". Like a gentleman.

[SoBad]

I vote "girl always pays", because I don't have any damn money.

Finally blew it all, huh...

guy always pays
Funny I heard a story of a guy who, when on a date, asked the waiter to keep tabs . Long story short...girl bought lots of drinks thinking the guy would buy. girl got bill. girl got pissed.
the guy used it as a "test" to see how the girl would react :confused:
I think it's wrong. amusing, but wrong

That's funny but I don't see anything wrong with it. Obviously he wanted to test how needy and presumptious the girl was. I can see why she would be disappointed with the separate bill, but she wouldn't show it if she had any class.

[mucat]

Okay, so your wife (although usually logical and reasonable) is a little on the fickle side when choosing restaurants? Sorry Mucat, but I fail to see how that relates to who should pay for the date. Nor, do I relate myself to that scenario either as I usually know three days ahead of time where I want to go and what I want to order. Everyone is different - that's my point. Just as all men do not make a big "move", not all women are flighty.

No...you miss the point completely, but it is ok. (I have the same type of conversations with my wife many times..."So, so, that what you meant"..."No, that's not the point..."). Our brain just wired differently. I come to accept it. After 15yrs together and 10yrs marriage.

The point is, even sometimes females said one thing, at the end, they might perfer or enjoy another. To the male species, the female species are fickle and unpredictable at times (no, not just about restaurants). I am not arguing with you. I do and I live through it everyday for the past 15yrs and I still can't figure her out 50% of the time.

So it is always about high % play. Now, which one is more high %, the male pay or the female pay.

[mucat]

ohhhh you are married. no wonder you disagree with me LOL. now i see. yea buddy we are on completely different planets

It is hard to believe, but I did live on your planet not too long ago. All my points are based on past experience on your planet...I think I will just leave it at that.

Nowaday, I live on a plane of existence of constant flux, sometimes closer to heaven, sometimes closer to hell.

[CanadianChic]

Mucat, I hope you did not get the impression that I was trying to pick an argument with you - quite the opposite. I am simply trying to understand where your words are coming from (although I feel men can be as stubborn and obstinate as women can be flighty and fickle). There must be a lot more to the "closer to heaven" in the relationship to have lasted this long - I respect that. :)

[CanadianChic]

I can see why she would be disappointed with the separate bill, but she wouldn't show it if she had any class.

That is a very true point SoBad. I am against "testing" as someone always fails (and it ain't me), but I do agree that we try to put our best foot forward and show the more appealing qualities as much as possible.

[mucat]

Mucat, I hope you did not get the impression that I was trying to pick an argument with you - quite the opposite. I am simply trying to understand where your words are coming from (although I feel men can be as stubborn and obstinate as women can be flighty and fickle). There must be a lot more to the "closer to heaven" in the relationship to have lasted this long - I respect that. :)

Ha, stubborn and obstinate, yes, my wife would agree with you. Although I think I am the least stubborn of the bunch but what do I know.

No, it is fine, there is nothing to argue here. At the end of the day, it is about the results. If some guys like to ask the girl to pay, it does not affect me a bit. You are right, there are a lot more to "closer to heaven" in a relationship. It is a commitment, a pact, both party have to work hard to keep it together. And having kids (I have 2) does not make the commitment easier, sometiimes it is actually more difficult, but it is definitely more enjoyable.

[mucat]

guy always pays
Funny I heard a story of a guy who, when on a date, asked the waiter to keep tabs . Long story short...girl bought lots of drinks thinking the guy would buy. girl got bill. girl got pissed.
the guy used it as a "test" to see how the girl would react :confused:
I think it's wrong. amusing, but wrong

This is a classic case of a guy having all the wrong skills.

[PimpMyGame]

Hung around with several types of rich people, and most are not foolish with their money.

Don't confuse being generous with being foolish! I would gladly buy drinks all night / meal etc for a friend if I knew they would do the same for me - that's the test. If I wasn't sure then my generosity would be very short lived.

What goes around comes around, and you get out what you put in. Sorry if my previous glib comments did not impress, I guess we're just on different wavelengths;)

[equinox]

On a 1st date we each pay for our own food and coffee.
Oth if she comes back to my place the beers are free. :D

[richw76]

Don't confuse being generous with being foolish! I would gladly buy drinks all night / meal etc for a friend if I knew they would do the same for me - that's the test. If I wasn't sure then my generosity would be very short lived.

What goes around comes around, and you get out what you put in. Sorry if my previous glib comments did not impress, I guess we're just on different wavelengths;)

It's funny you said this, because I think it has SOOO much to do with the thread topic. First off me and my friends have done this since college. If they didn't they didn't stay in our group long.

It has nothing to do with wanting to hang out with people with more money, but no one wants to feel taken advantage of.

I think that's the tie in, if you think the guy should pay or not. I think most guys would happily pay for the date, assuming he is able as long as he doesn't feel taking advantage of or taken for granted.

[PimpMyGame]

^^^richw76, you got it in one!

There have been many times in the past when I have extended my generosity to friends who haven't had the money to do something. There have also been times when my friends have extended their generosity to me, when I had no money. What goes around comes around.

Nowadays my friends and I all have enough money to do what we want. At this point you find that the lunch, or night out, or whatever, isn't generosity - it's just a natural act.

[35ft6]

A friend, a serial dater who isn't really that great with girls, has learned to make first meetings an afternoon coffee date. Personally, I think a bit of alcohol is good when you're meeting somebody for the first time. Going out for dinner with somebody you barely know, a "date," IMO isn't very natural and, in fact, extremely awkward. It's like going on a job interview.

I agree with the people who think the first date shouldn't be artificially extravagant, like you're both putting on costumes to go perform a role in an uncommon locale. Better to rent a bike and go riding on the beach, or hike through the canyons, or go shoot rats by the dumpster together. Better to save the money until you fall in love. Go to Spain, rent an apartment in Barcelona for a month, refuse to speak the native tongue, eat lots of fish, play tennis with the locals, and of course, get stinking drunk every afternoon. It's what Hemingway would have wanted.

[richw76]

^^^richw76, you got it in one!

There have been many times in the past when I have extended my generosity to friends who haven't had the money to do something. There have also been times when my friends have extended their generosity to me, when I had no money. What goes around comes around.

Nowadays my friends and I all have enough money to do what we want. At this point you find that the lunch, or night out, or whatever, isn't generosity - it's just a natural act.

I think you can appreciate this story, of when someone gets cut off. This was maybe 3 years ago. But me and my crew have known each other for over ten years now. We are all layed back and don't sweat the details much. Anyway one of my buddies made a new friend, and we all started hanging out some. After a handful of times out people start noticing this kid is drinking all night with us but when its time to settle the tab, he is ALWAYS in the bathroom or disapears for awhile..... We didn't make a big deal about it there would be a few jokes told but he didn't get that we were trying to tell him not to be dead weight. Truth is if he just said Hey guys I'm a littel short this week can you spot me... BEFORE we went out no one would have cared we all have good jobs and business and it's not that serious...... then the deal breaker. It was my buddies birthday so we all agreed that we would take care of him and his girlfriend, standard stuff. My friend invited the guy we'll call "the leech". He actually brought a date to the dinner, ate, ordered/shared bottles of wine, and had a good ole time........ check came around and WTF, WTF, WTF he was nowhere to be found. We were Livid but didn't want to ruin my buddy's birthday. Anyway the next week I spoke to my friend about the "leech" he was embarassed about the situation so we decided to confront him. The next week like always everyone was drinking and hanging out and the leech disapears when the check comes, this time we go find him hand him the bill and tell him he needs to settle up. Dude acted like he didn't know why we were upset, and he always contributed. He had never even spotted us a twenty. We let him know that if he wanted to hang out he needed to pay his part. That cleared it up from then on. I still don't like the kid much but whatcha gonna do :-)

[heycal]

Not surprising. I'm guessing the bar staff is going to act pretty agreeable around some guy who suddenly turns on two women he doesn't know and angrily calls them _____'s regardless of who was right or wrong...


FYI - I was out with my friend last night, a smart and tough 20 year veteran of bartending in New York City and L.A., who's worked both in very high-end establishments and middle range ones. So I ran the story of calling the two girls who tipped poorly ____'s by him for his perspective, and he said the following:

1) If two girls left a 1 dollar tip on a twenty dollar tab, he would be annoyed, but not shocked, since it's not that unusual for two young girls to tip like that. (BTW, he says 1 dollar per drink is standard and fine with him.)

2) If a guy then tried to slip him 5 bucks after witnessing that, he would not accept it.

3) If a guy referred to the two girls as ____'s, he would instantly be wary of him, consider him the bigger problem than the cheap tipppers, and keep an eye on him the rest of the night.

4) If the guy referred to the two girls as ____'s loud enough for them to hear it themselves, he would immediately kick him out of the bar. (Particularly if it was a higher end establishment.)

Food for thought.:p

[Frodo Baggins]

Geez You guys Are saps:confused: Whatever Happined to Free Dates...Where KA-CHING$$ Don't Have to Spend money..Like for example >Ok if I was on a date with Davide Here's how we Spend our first date>We both be in a park or on my Steps Or in my back yard Just listening to the birds Enjoying each Others Company..(Thats What Dating is All about Right?? just enjoying each others Company:)..But If You Guys Have to Spend $Money$ On us$$$ Then you must be HOLLIWOOD!!! Thats Sad..:( :D

[Andres]

Geez You guys Are saps:confused: Whatever Happined to Free Dates...Where KA-CHING$$ Don't Have to Spend money..Like for example >Ok if I was on a date with Davide Here's how we Spend our first date>We both be in a park or on my Steps Or in my back yard Just listening to the birds Enjoying each Others Company..(Thats What Dating is All about Right?? just enjoying each others Company..But If You Guys Have to Spend $Money$ On us$$$ Then you must be HOLLIWOOD!!! Thats Sad..:( :D
Huh? :confused:

[Breaker]

I think she's saying she wants to get it on with Davide in her backyard.

[35ft6]

Don't confuse being generous with being foolish! I'm not. But you're making it sound like rich people will just pay for everything and everybody in their party, and that's not the case, and why should it be?I would gladly buy drinks all night / meal etc for a friend if I knew they would do the same for me - that's the test. If I wasn't sure then my generosity would be very short lived. I've said as much. If I were a billionaire, it wouldn't be lack of money preventing me from being generous to a fault, it would be knowing that people around me are waiting for me to volunteer to foot the bill after every outing, you know, pretending to reach for their wallets while keeping one eye peeked over at me. It would be THAT attitude that turns me off from paying all the time. I sometimes drink with a guy worth millions, and it never even crossed my mind he should pay since his net worth was multiple times greater than the rest of ours put together. I let him buy me a lap dance once, he insisted -- coked up I think --, and that was a disaster. He got me the ugliest stripper. :mad:

[35ft6]

I think you can appreciate this story, of when someone gets cut off. This was maybe 3 years ago. But me and my crew have known each other for over ten years now. We are all layed back and don't sweat the details much. Anyway one of my buddies made a new friend, and we all started hanging out some. After a handful of times out people start noticing this kid is drinking all night with us but when its time to settle the tab, he is ALWAYS in the bathroom or disapears for awhile..... We didn't make a big deal about it there would be a few jokes told but he didn't get that we were trying to tell him not to be dead weight. Truth is if he just said Hey guys I'm a littel short this week can you spot me... BEFORE we went out no one would have cared we all have good jobs and business and it's not that serious...... then the deal breaker. It was my buddies birthday so we all agreed that we would take care of him and his girlfriend, standard stuff. My friend invited the guy we'll call "the leech". He actually brought a date to the dinner, ate, ordered/shared bottles of wine, and had a good ole time........ check came around and WTF, WTF, WTF he was nowhere to be found. We were Livid but didn't want to ruin my buddy's birthday. Anyway the next week I spoke to my friend about the "leech" he was embarassed about the situation so we decided to confront him. The next week like always everyone was drinking and hanging out and the leech disapears when the check comes, this time we go find him hand him the bill and tell him he needs to settle up. Dude acted like he didn't know why we were upset, and he always contributed. He had never even spotted us a twenty. We let him know that if he wanted to hang out he needed to pay his part. That cleared it up from then on. I still don't like the kid much but whatcha gonna do :-) I would insist he stay away. If somebody mooches once, it could have just been a sincere drunken oversight, but twice, and you're a mooch and I can't be hanging with you. It's not just the money, but the narcissism and shadiness that usually comes along with people like him.

Another thing that turns me off is when I'm going to a dinner party, or even just a party, and a friend doesn't feel it's important to bring a bottle or some food to contribute, then go straight to the fridge to find the most expensive beer, which was brought by somebody who wasn't being cheap. I can understand this behavior in college, but one guy in particular, he was making a decent salary, and he would always show up to parties empty handed. Always.

[zapvor]

It is hard to believe, but I did live on your planet not too long ago. All my points are based on past experience on your planet...I think I will just leave it at that.

Nowaday, I live on a plane of existence of constant flux, sometimes closer to heaven, sometimes closer to hell.

um.....no. different planets. maybe galaxy. we used to be on the same planet, but the whole marriage thing...yea. not even the same solar system buddy. i cant even explain to you now. you are way in the black hole.

[SoBad]

Right...

word of mouth...she might tell her friends how cheap and a jerk you are. And she is a girl, girls can be exaggerating sometimes...

If I know a girl who is not good, I will not introduce her to my friends.

Yeah, but if you're hot and letting her hang around you and pay for you, then she would never bad-mouth you, even if you are cheap and a jerk.

[SoBad]

i believe that doesn't make you good with the ladies that justs makes you a cheap ass because many girls offer to pay because its the right thing to do. By you being the ''Gentleman'' you should say never mind i will pay for it. If you let the girl pay it makes a ''Cheap Ass''

But if it gives them pleasure to pay for zapvor, it would be cruel for him to deny them pleasure.

[zapvor]

Yeah, but if you're hot and letting her hang around you and pay for you, then she would never bad-mouth you, even if you are cheap and a jerk.

But if it gives them pleasure to pay for zapvor, it would be cruel for him to deny them pleasure.

i have been noting your posts in this thread buddy. just leave those guys alone. they obviously do not understand what we are trying to get at, and its their loss. they are engrained in an awful mindset/philosophy from teh stone age or something. if anything, i feel sorry for them.

[SoBad]

i have been noting your posts in this thread buddy. just leave those guys alone. they obviously do not understand what we are trying to get at, and its their loss. they are engrained in an awful mindset/philosophy from teh stone age or something. if anything, i feel sorry for them.

Yeah, you're probably right and they are probably hopeless, but hey, if you have an opinion, why not express it! It's 2007! It's summer! Have you ever experienced a summer when running felt like flying?:D

[zapvor]

it is summer. after seeing myself on tape today, i have come to realize and reaffirm how much i suck at tennis lol. so no flying for me yet. by the way going into you know where monday , but just passing through.

[SoBad]

it is summer. after seeing myself on tape today, i have come to realize and reaffirm how much i suck at tennis lol. so no flying for me yet. by the way going into you know where monday , but just passing through.

Haha, I am afraid to film myself, for fear of getting ill from seeing my footwork on a screen.

Off to the beach are we? Where are you stopping for seafood lunch? And what the hell happened to my bay bridge thread anyways. And why the hell is bay bridge always under construction? Maybe those movies like Mission Impossible III are all true and it does get pumelled by CIA choppers all the time haha...

[mucat]

i have been noting your posts in this thread buddy. just leave those guys alone. they obviously do not understand what we are trying to get at, and its their loss. they are engrained in an awful mindset/philosophy from teh stone age or something. if anything, i feel sorry for them.

Unless you have the kavorka, otherwise, I don't understand what you are trying to get at... :)

[spot]

zapvor- please help us understand your mindset. Why don't you tell us about the first date you had with your current girlfriend where you split the check on the first date?

[PimpMyGame]

I think you can appreciate this story, of when someone gets cut off.... I still don't like the kid much but whatcha gonna do :-)

I know, I know. Last time I had something like that, a bunch of us took the train to London - about 2 hours. Anyway, fully loaded boys' day out and one guy invited a work colleague. He didn't contribute much in any way but on the train home the character bought himself a drink from the buffet car without offering to anyone else. Needless to say the inevitable kick-off ensued and we haven't seen him since.

I'd be straight with your new kid - make him buy the first round at the bar, make him aware that he's going to have to prove himself and he'll buck his ideas up or get lost for good.

[PimpMyGame]

He got me the ugliest stripper. :mad:

lol. That's what coke does for you:sad: - drink pepsi instead

[zapvor]

zapvor- please help us understand your mindset. Why don't you tell us about the first date you had with your current girlfriend where you split the check on the first date?

sorry buddy not going to entertain your demands. besides i already made numerous posts on the topic regarding my mindset.

[heycal]

sorry buddy not going to entertain your demands. besides i already made numerous posts on the topic regarding my mindset.

Well, then, what can you do for us to keep this thread alive?

[WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis]

Usually if it's someone I am just getting to know (i.e. haven't worked around and know for years for example), and we're going out for the first time. I will treat definitely. If everything's a go, and we hit it off and go out again, if she wishes to pay, I would let her, but definitely stress that I want to go out again sometimes and will pay then, or even better, invite her back to my place and cook dinner for her.

[zapvor]

haha. ok. what about the time, i am trying to get a ticket for metro, and the machine wont accept my debit card, so i turn to ask the girl next to me for money lol. this is around evening, and she had on this ridiculous dress. so i had to ask her who made it. apparently betsy johnson makes outstanding dresses. i even went to her website just to see if i can find it, but i couldnt. but i have no problem with hitting on girls right after i just asked them for money to ride public trnasporation:p besides that dress was ridiculous. and she looked ridiculous in it.

[Rodditha]

For me it's the person who invites it's them who is supposed to pay.
Can't imagine me inviting my date somewhere to tell him at the end "you're the one paying", no way, that's kind of embarrassing.

[SoBad]

haha. ok. what about the time, i am trying to get a ticket for metro, and the machine wont accept my debit card, so i turn to ask the girl next to me for money lol. this is around evening, and she had on this ridiculous dress. so i had to ask her who made it. apparently betsy johnson makes outstanding dresses. i even went to her website just to see if i can find it, but i couldnt. but i have no problem with hitting on girls right after i just asked them for money to ride public trnasporation:p besides that dress was ridiculous. and she looked ridiculous in it.

Did you compliment her on the dress before or after you asked her for money?

[mcmarsha67]

Am I a fool?

I've been dating this guy for over 4 months now. From the beginning, we ate almost exclusively at my house due to horrible hours that we keep due to our jobs. We've eaten out only maybe 5 or 6 times. I have MCS (multiple chemical sensitivity) and HAVE to eat foods absent of chemicals like pesticides, preservatives and such. All of my food is organic which is very pricey. When we dine out, I just have them prepare my foods without any seasoning and handle that quite well, though. We just don't have that much time during the day to eat out. At any rate, I have been preparing and sharing my expensive organic food (about twice the price of regular food) with my boyfriend. Not once has he given me money for any of that food nor has he shown up with a bag of it to replace what I have fed him. He doesn't even show up with the non-organic food for himself. We have actually gone to the grocery store on a few occassions when I have food in the grocery basket that I plan on taking home and cooking for him and I that night. He hasn't even given me money towards that. He has even had dog treats in the cart with my food and given me just enough money to cover his dog treats. Actually, once he gave me money towards a package of 4 steaks after I had pitched a fit. This was about 6 weeks ago. Here's the kicker...when I told him that I was thinking of splitting up with him, he used the key I had given to him for my house and let himself in to leave me a note he'd written to me and then took the last 2 steaks (of the package of 4) out of the freezer and home with him.

Let me add that I am just now recovering from a horrid assault to my nervous system by a medication that left me unable to work for 4+ years. I actually couldn't even walk for about 9 months. This is what led to the chemical sensitivity. I was not expected to ever return to work, but pushed myself to recover. I am not yet fully recovered, though. I'm much better, but not fully recovered. It is just that I had to work for financial reasons. As a result of not having been able to work all those previous years, it has left me in an extremely bad financial way. During that whole time, I still had to support my son in which I was getting little or no help from my ex-husband. On top of that, my old vehicle kept pooping out on me, my cat needed expensive treatment to save her life (and it worked), my house flooded from a broken pipe and the insurance company said that it isn't a covered peril, I totaled my old vehicle and I have to repay a huge debt as a result of my prior medical condition. He, OTOH, has no debt beyond his house payment, has been working steady for the last 14+ years, and has no children.

Well, I've confronted him on this and told him that I didn't think this was being fair. I can't bear most of the cost here. I can't even meet him half-way. I don't think I should even have to be pointing it out to him. This should be obvious. My girl friends are telling me that I am acting like this is a committed relationship and treating it accordingly, but that it is apparent that he is not. He tells me that he is so happy he has met me and that he loves me and wants to be with me forever, but I mostly feel like he is just all talk. From the perspective of others, I've told him that they think he is cheap. I've even been told by a guy friend of mine that I am settling and that if I am okay with that treatment to just go on dating him.

He claims that he is just being cautious because a girl room mate of his that he thought of like a sister was living with him for FREE for 10 years stole $3,000 from him and so he is just being cautious. (Well, there are 2 sides to every story.) At any rate, I am not her. I had a previous boyfriend blab to a number of people about our sex life. If I were like my current boyfriend, we wouldn't be having sex because he would be paying the price for that previous boyfriend. This current guy gets sex from me 3 to 4 times a week whether or not I have the time for it. He requires marathon sex that lasts hours which I do not. So, I'm also giving him all of my spare time, some of which could be better spent on dealing with my other problems. Oh, he will whip out a credit card faster than you can say "charge it" if it is for a sex toy. Still yet, he won't even buy me any lengerie (sp?). I bought the one outfit since we've been together. When I mentioned that I'd like more...would he buy me an outfit, he commented that I already had some.

One day, I was celebrating my new car bought with the money I got from the insurance company for my totaled truck by buying me some flowers. When he came over, I pointed out to him my pretty flowers that I bought myself. He asked me if I was dropping a hint. I said no. He then said that he'd buy me flowers if I was nice to him for at least 2 days in a row. I get upset with him when he points out my flaws. I think it is rude. So, when he points out these flaws, I snap back at him. I've never once pointed out any physical flaw of his. I told him that I thought perhaps he was trying to make me insecure so that perhaps I would never look elsewhere beyond him. Or maybe by his cutting me down, he felt better about himself. Or maybe he is just rude and insensitive. When I do this, he thinks that I am being mean to him. What? :confused:

OMG, I could go on and on and on. What do I get out of all of this you must be asking? He says he loves me, he tells me that I am beautiful (I do all right), and that he wants to be with me forever. Occassionally, he does something selfless like take a day off of work and drive me 100 miles and back to get my new vehicle or helps me put my used built-in microwave in above my stove. He's even mentioned the possibility of marriage. I have to ask myself, will a marriage to him just bring more of the same. Oh, during all of this, I'm constantly being flirted with by other guys and have even been asked out...yet I say, sorry, no can do. I've got me a man.

I don't know why I am putting this out here because I know that this is all wrong. I guess I just need to hear it one more time. Writing it down in black and white has also been a major help to me. I just can't help but think that he really is crazy about me, but that he just doesn't know how he is supposed to act. I believe he is cheap, too, though. He told me once that he was socially retarded. I'm starting to think that he is. I'd like to teach him how not to be, but don't know if I have it in me to do so. I've been through so much and continue to go through so much. I need someone that is going to HELP me and not the other way around. I'd at least be thankful to have someone that doesn't add to my plate of problems. He has said that he doesn't want to be another stressor for me. Well, unfortunately, I'm afraid that he is and stress is the one thing that I can definitely do without. It is the one thing that I am told to avoid if at all possible with regards to my health issues. I really do love him, but I love myself, too. I can't let him undo my health gains nor will I settle. Tell me what's a woman in my predicament to do????

[heycal]

^
That's five minutes of my life I'll never get back...

I don't see what the problem is. He helped you put in that microwave. What more do you want??

[stoutman11]

McMarsha, how old are you? We cant tell you what to do. If your thinking of breaking up with this guy how can he possibly be your husband later? I dunno but its probably not gunna work. Worry about your health and your wallet. The right guy will come along sometime. Good luck.

[richw76]

Not trying to be overly harsh, but unless the guy is 14 or you are his first "real" girlfriend he is not going to change. Women don't try to change your guy! It will only frustrate you further, adn piss the guy off.... of course if you ARE able to change him I promise you, you won't like him any more anyway.

And... Dude sounds like a real catch, you should DEFINITLY marry him, that'll fix it...... and if he's the type of person that would go into your house and take a what 5-10$ steak he's clearly a real winner.

[kevhen]

Guy should pay unless girl demands to split it. The lady is always right...

[SoBad]

I don't see what the problem is. He helped you put in that microwave. What more do you want??

That's a good point - he did help with installation of the microwave, she admitted that herself. I am not so sure about whether it was right for him to take the two steaks from the freezer after she had threatened to break up though.

We know that they had purchased four steaks together, and that he had paid for half of them (two). We also know that at the time that Marsh had threatened to end the relationship, there were two steaks remaining in the freezer. It is not immediately clear from the story whether the two steaks that had already been eaten were eaten by Marsh alone, or whether they were shared between Marsh and her boyfriend. If Marsh had eaten the first two steaks by herself, then I don't see why he wouldn't be entitled to take the remaining two (since he had paid for them), as he did. However, if the first two steaks had been shared between the couple, then the boyfriend should have only taken one from the freezer, if he were a true gentleman.

[mucat]

I don't see what the problem here, steak to a man is like ice-cream or chocolate to a woman...

[PimpMyGame]

Everyone's missed the point. If he went into her place uninvited and took two steaks from the freezer he's probably a psycho. No-one does that unless they're trying to piss her off or scare her. It's a statement of power - I've got the key, and this time it's two steaks. What's it to be next time?

[SoBad]

But she had threatened to end the relationship, don't you see. He paid for two steaks, so if it is indeed the case that she had eaten the other two on her own, he shouldn't be held responsible for taking the remaining two steaks.

[PimpMyGame]

Yes I see she had threatened to end the relationship. That's why letting himself into her flat uninvited is all the more freaky. It doesn't sound like a good relationship so if she says "I might split up with you" the guy should be either taking her out and treating her nice or leave her alone and give her space. Not sneak into her place to take something.

[SoBad]

But he did pay for two steaks. So if she had eaten the other two by herself, don't the remaining two steaks belong to him (technically speaking) regardless of where they might be stored, at the time that she threatens to end the relationship?

[ionutzakis]

Now comes the big one, who should pay for the following vacation costs:

-airplaine tickets
-accomodation/hotel
-daily meals

???

[tennis_hand]

I think different people prefer different ways. You should post here your choice, regardless of whether it is good or not.

In my opinion also experience, on first few dates, guys should pay if you want to get the girl. you wanna get the girl right? don't be so stringent on the money and try to look good. (Chicks will think, you can't even pay this meal, and you wanna get me? well, it is girl's mentality, they are born with this. so get used to it unless u wanna get a man for life) if you don't wanna get the girl, why do you date her? I think a polite girl will try to refuse it, but if the guy insists, she will retreat. but if the girl insists on paying or giving you half, then probably she's not interested in you. then story over, get another one. money wasted, but gained experience.

but as he and she get closer in the relationship, I think both should pay accordingly. Maybe this time the guy pays, and next time the girl pays, never mind how large the amount is, as long as it is not too big an amount, e.g. an air ticket. It can't be that the guy always pays in a already mature relationship, unless the guy is loaded and insists on it.

[35ft6]

The lady is always right... What if a lady said "the lady is always wrong?"

I just blew your mind, man.

[PimpMyGame]

But he did pay for two steaks. So if she had eaten the other two by herself, don't the remaining two steaks belong to him (technically speaking) regardless of where they might be stored, at the time that she threatens to end the relationship?

Possession is 9/10ths of the law. But let's assume she ate two steaks herself and there are two left which technically belong to him. He lets himself into her place (uninvited) knowing she's seriously considering ending their relationship. Why does he do this?

Maybe it's because he feels aggrieved about missing out on a steak. If that's the case he's probably quite unstable and Marsha needs to let him go. He's also in effect ending the relationship as he is going back to her place and retrieving his belongings.

Maybe it's because he wants to piss her off. Judging by her post he's done that alright.

Maybe it's because he wants to freak her out. If this is the case she has to drop this loser now.

Maybe it's a combination of the above but I think all roads lead to the same conclusion - the guy's nuts.

[kevhen]

If she tells you that "The lady is always wrong", you tell her that she is right. Logic does not apply here!

[richw76]

Possession is 9/10ths of the law. But let's assume she ate two steaks herself and there are two left which technically belong to him. He lets himself into her place (uninvited) knowing she's seriously considering ending their relationship. Why does he do this?

Maybe it's because he feels aggrieved about missing out on a steak. If that's the case he's probably quite unstable and Marsha needs to let him go. He's also in effect ending the relationship as he is going back to her place and retrieving his belongings.

Maybe it's because he wants to piss her off. Judging by her post he's done that alright.

Maybe it's because he wants to freak her out. If this is the case she has to drop this loser now.

Maybe it's a combination of the above but I think all roads lead to the same conclusion - the guy's nuts.

oh yeah Behavior like that is not normal, and whoever thinks it is most likely was raised in a very disfunctional household. That's like you break up with a girl and she comes into YOUR place and takes the orange juice then basically dares you to do something about it...... anyway marsh get back with him. I think if you love him enough he will change his anti social personality...........

[mucat]

What if a lady said "the lady is always wrong?"

I just blew your mind, man.

If she said that, you are in big trouble. She meant you complained too much about she did things wrong. ;)

[richw76]

Now comes the big one, who should pay for the following vacation costs:

-airplaine tickets
-accomodation/hotel
-daily meals

???

Ahhhh this is a good one!! I have three answers depending on the situation.

1. You invite the girl and it's a surprise. - You pay for everything

2. You invite the girl not a surprise - If you are bf/gf and dating for awhile you know each others financial situation. I would say neither person should be left dreading the trip or missing rent/mortgage payments due to a trip.
If we were equal financially I would say split air fare and hotel, then I would pay for meals and drinks unless she wanted to share some expense.

-if I had much more disposable income I would have her pay for at least the flight.

Oh ok that's only two things. But long story short I think is you need to talk about it before you go, and have a clear idea oh who is paying for what before and after the trip.

[SoBad]

Possession is 9/10ths of the law. But let's assume she ate two steaks herself and there are two left which technically belong to him. He lets himself into her place (uninvited) knowing she's seriously considering ending their relationship. Why does he do this?

Maybe it's because he feels aggrieved about missing out on a steak. If that's the case he's probably quite unstable and Marsha needs to let him go. He's also in effect ending the relationship as he is going back to her place and retrieving his belongings.

Maybe it's because he wants to piss her off. Judging by her post he's done that alright.

Maybe it's because he wants to freak her out. If this is the case she has to drop this loser now.

Maybe it's a combination of the above but I think all roads lead to the same conclusion - the guy's nuts.

I am not sure I agree with your approach here – giving Marsha the benefit of the doubt, while scrutinising the boyfriend. Remember, we are given the story line from her perspective, so we should really be doing the opposite here.

Why is she threatening to end the relationship shortly after she forces him to pay for two steaks that are subsequently stored (conveniently) in her freezer? Maybe that was a coincidence, but it’s a rather curious one then, considering that according to Marsha that was a rare instance where she got him to pay for some of the groceries. Was she holding those two remaining steaks hostage in her freezer to use as leverage alongside the threat to end the relationship? Really, the steak episode poses more questions than it provides answers.

You are questioning his motives in retrieving the steaks, but whatever the ultimate motive was, I see no wrongdoing on his part. Since he was still in possession of her house key at the time that he retrieved the steaks, that means that the implied property access rights that Marsha had granted him under the terms of their (then ongoing) relationship, had remained in effect at the time of the steak retrieval.

Whether or not the guy is a “loser” or “nuts” is unclear to me at this point. However, that’s not even relevant, since the key question (as I see it) is whether or not they are a good match.

[mucat]

What kind of steaks are those??

[CanadianChic]

For me it's the person who invites it's them who is supposed to pay.
Can't imagine me inviting my date somewhere to tell him at the end "you're the one paying", no way, that's kind of embarrassing.

Bingo!!

Everyone's missed the point. If he went into her place uninvited and took two steaks from the freezer he's probably a psycho. No-one does that unless they're trying to piss her off or scare her. It's a statement of power - I've got the key, and this time it's two steaks. What's it to be next time?

Good point.

[heycal]

I am not sure I agree with your approach here – giving Marsha the benefit of the doubt, while scrutinising the boyfriend. Remember, we are given the story line from her perspective, so we should really be doing the opposite here.

Why is she threatening to end the relationship shortly after she forces him to pay for two steaks that are subsequently stored (conveniently) in her freezer? Maybe that was a coincidence, but it’s a rather curious one then, considering that according to Marsha that was a rare instance where she got him to pay for some of the groceries. Was she holding those two remaining steaks hostage in her freezer to use as leverage alongside the threat to end the relationship? Really, the steak episode poses more questions than it provides answers.

You are questioning his motives in retrieving the steaks, but whatever the ultimate motive was, I see no wrongdoing on his part. Since he was still in possession of her house key at the time that he retrieved the steaks, that means that the implied property access rights that Marsha had granted him under the terms of their (then ongoing) relationship, had remained in effect at the time of the steak retrieval.

Whether or not the guy is a “loser” or “nuts” is unclear to me at this point. However, that’s not even relevant, since the key question (as I see it) is whether or not they are a good match.

Excellent post.

[SoBad]

What kind of steaks are those??

If you read the essay, the storyline appears to suggest that those were organic steaks priced at about double of non-organic steaks.

Excellent post.

Thank you.

[mucat]

If you read the essay, the storyline appears to suggest that those were organic steaks priced at about double of non-organic steaks.

Thank you.

:)

When a guy ask what kind of steak, the answer should be along the line of prime rib, sirloin, NY strip, tenderloin, etc.

Not organic or non-organic...

For example, my wife would say, "you have an orange racket". I would say, "I have a radical"...

:)

[SoBad]

:)

When a guy ask what kind of steak, the answer should be along the line of prime rib, sirloin, NY strip, tenderloin, etc.

Not organic or non-organic...

For example, my wife would say, "you have an orange racket". I would say, "I have a radical"...

:)

You and I have the same information to work with - that lone post by Marsha. I wish I could tell you more about the steaks in question, but I woudn't want to find myself speculating about matters of fact.

[Trinity TC]

Tell me what's a woman in my predicament to do????
Dump that chump.

[PimpMyGame]

I am not sure I agree with your approach here – giving Marsha the benefit of the doubt, while scrutinising the boyfriend. Remember, we are given the story line from her perspective, so we should really be doing the opposite here.

Why is she threatening to end the relationship shortly after she forces him to pay for two steaks that are subsequently stored (conveniently) in her freezer? Maybe that was a coincidence, but it’s a rather curious one then, considering that according to Marsha that was a rare instance where she got him to pay for some of the groceries. Was she holding those two remaining steaks hostage in her freezer to use as leverage alongside the threat to end the relationship? Really, the steak episode poses more questions than it provides answers.

You are questioning his motives in retrieving the steaks, but whatever the ultimate motive was, I see no wrongdoing on his part. Since he was still in possession of her house key at the time that he retrieved the steaks, that means that the implied property access rights that Marsha had granted him under the terms of their (then ongoing) relationship, had remained in effect at the time of the steak retrieval.

Whether or not the guy is a “loser” or “nuts” is unclear to me at this point. However, that’s not even relevant, since the key question (as I see it) is whether or not they are a good match.

Sorry but for someone to go into someone else's house uninvited and take something, I don't think that's normal behaviour. You don't seem to have a problem with it, and that's where we'll differ. It doesn't matter that this guy thinks the steaks are his. They're not kids, they're not pets, they're not family heirlooms and there is no suggestion that they have been taken by Marsha with a view to never giving them back.

Did he really want those steaks that much? Or was he sending out another message?

PS nice pun in your quote.

[richw76]

Sorry but for someone to go into someone else's house uninvited and take something, I don't think that's normal behaviour. You don't seem to have a problem with it, and that's where we'll differ. It doesn't matter that this guy thinks the steaks are his. They're not kids, they're not pets, they're not family heirlooms and there is no suggestion that they have been taken by Marsha with a view to never giving them back.

Did he really want those steaks that much? Or was he sending out another message?

PS nice pun in your quote.

Yep, I mean I'm 30 and maybe a little more mature/experienced than other posters. Lets imagine the steaks are 16oz Organic grain feed kobe so 50$ a piece I STILL wouldn't just go into a girlfriends house and take them back. Especially if we've broken up.

Young guys this is simple dating etiquitte that you should have been tought. When you get your girlfriends house key, you don't just show up and chill or take things, even if you bought them unannounced, period, the end. The ONLY exception is maybe if you are surprising her with dinner or something like that, but what he did is just out of line, whatever his justification.

Dude have soem respect for yourself, charge it to the game, and keep stepin. It makes dude look like a punk loser to most adults.

[heycal]

I think this woman would have moved on from this guy long ago if he hadn't had the motivation and sense of purpose to come and collect his steaks. I think she is turned on by that kind of self-confident initiative, and that, coupled with his kind installation of her microwave (labor he did NOT charge her for) is why he is still in her life and thoughts.

[equinox]

They're both headcases. Him for being a jerk taking back his steak without asking and her for caring that he took away the stupid steak.
Seriously..

[mucat]

Yep, I mean I'm 30 and maybe a little more mature/experienced than other posters. Lets imagine the steaks are 16oz Organic grain feed kobe so 50$ a piece I STILL wouldn't just go into a girlfriends house and take them back. Especially if we've broken up.


If it is $50 a piece steak, I would go in and get it even I don't have the key and not the bf...hmmm...steak...

[richw76]

If it is $50 a piece steak, I would go in and get it even I don't have the key and not the bf...hmmm...steak...

:-) once or twice a year I'll go to Whole foods or a great Butcher and get the biggest/Thickest most highly marbled Tbone I can find and throw it on the Grill....Great Steak, Nice Bottle of wine..... afterwards a Nice cigar and a shorty of 25+ yr old grand marnier. Life is good, and the World is right.

but still wouldn't break into soemone's house for it ;-)

[mucat]

:-) once or twice a year I'll go to Whole foods or a great Butcher and get the biggest/Thickest most highly marbled Tbone I can find and throw it on the Grill....Great Steak, Nice Bottle of wine..... afterwards a Nice cigar and a shorty of 25+ yr old grand marnier. Life is good, and the World is right.

but still wouldn't break into soemone's house for it ;-)

Just once or twice a yr?? I do it at least once a month or whenever I have a chance. And where I live produces one of the best beef in the world. T-bone is not my favorite, I prefer prime rib.

First time is, I would not leave my steaks in other people's house...

[richw76]

Just once or twice a yr?? I do it at least once a month or whenever I have a chance. And where I live produces one of the best beef in the world. T-bone is not my favorite, I prefer prime rib.

First time is, I would not leave my steaks in other people's house...

Yeah when I do it my Wife makes faces and looks at my plate like it's grilled death on a plate or something :-) Truth is I don't eat much red meat but sometimes you just gotta eat a big piece of bloody meat :-)

Went to Morton's 3 weeks ago not bad. Humm Maybe that's a new thread "Best Steak Houses" My all time favorite ever I found while traveling a few years ago. In Westchester County, NY. Was called Johnny and Johnny or something can't remember. oh and this place in Manhattan can't remeber the name but it was by the water, and it was old school. You basically ordered the side of a cow and they sliced it at teh table into individual portions.....ummm I'm going to buy a steak!!! :-)

[heycal]

If it is $50 a piece steak, I would go in and get it even I don't have the key and not the bf...hmmm...steak...

Excellent point. Throughout this entire thread, you have consistently been a voice of reason and common sense, Mucat.


Went to Morton's 3 weeks ago not bad. Humm Maybe that's a new thread "Best Steak Houses" My all time favorite ever I found while traveling a few years ago. In Westchester County, NY. Was called Johnny and Johnny or something can't remember. oh and this place in Manhattan can't remeber the name but it was by the water, and it was old school. You basically ordered the side of a cow and they sliced it at teh table into individual portions.....ummm I'm going to buy a steak!!! :-)

I live in Westchester County, but don't know this place. (Not that I'm a steak expert or anything...) Do you remember any other info about it?

EDIT: Just googled, and came up with a Frankie and Johnnie's in Rye. Is this it?

http://www.frankieandjohnnies.com/html/skipintro.html

[richw76]

Excellent point. Throughout this entire thread, you have consistently been a voice of reason and common sense, Mucat.



I live in Westchester County, but don't know this place. (Not that I'm a steak expert or anything...) Do you remember any other info about it?

EDIT: Just googled, and came up with a Frankie and Johnnie's in Rye. Is this it?

http://www.frankieandjohnnies.com/html/skipintro.html

BAM!!! That's it Frankie and Johnnies. 10 or 15 day dry aged goodness... ummmmmm. You get it Rare and it's already "cooked" from the ageing process. Actually I think that other place I was talking about in the City was another F&J location :-)

[princess bossass]

LOL! I love how far off the rails this conversation has gone. Nice work, lads! :p

[Bad Dog]

I think this woman would have moved on from this guy long ago if he hadn't had the motivation and sense of purpose to come and collect his steaks. I think she is turned on by that kind of self-confident initiative, and that, coupled with his kind installation of her microwave (labor he did NOT charge her for) is why he is still in her life and thoughts.

SoBad and Heycal – Both of you have posted messages that are eloquent, insightful and brilliantly witty. Especially those in which you provide the innocent male explanations for dating complex women (or women with complexes). :)

[mrjohansson]

the guy should definitely pay, i know all too well that i do

[superman1]

Last time I was out with a girl, she paid. She invited me to this place, I took out my wallet, she insisted that she pay, I said no way, she said yes, I asked to split, she said "no, I was the one who invited you," so I said fine, and made a joke about not wanting to be like my parents who would come close to fighting to the death if someone else tried to pay. She laughed at that, end of story.

RULE: The guy has to pull out his wallet first, the girl has to say "no, no" and offer to pay, there has to be a slight argument, and then if she doesn't withdraw, you have to withdraw. Don't let it come to blows. After the first date, the guy will always pay (unless he's broke), but the girl has to at least offer.

[SoBad]

SoBad and Heycal – Both of you have posted messages that are eloquent, insightful and brilliantly witty. Especially those in which you provide the innocent male explanations for dating complex women (or women with complexes). :)

Thanks for your compliments! Yeah, I post eloquent, insightful and brilliant stuff all the time, too bad nobody gets it most of the time. I mean come on, he did pay for two steaks at the checkout, and still had the house key when she threatened to break up. What is he supposed to do - just leave them sitting in the freezer?

P.S. "Women with complexes" is not quite the same as "complex women" or "women of good complexion", is it haha...

[zapvor]

Thanks for your compliments! Yeah, I post eloquent, insightful and brilliant stuff all the time, too bad nobody gets it most of the time. I mean come on, he did pay for two steaks at the checkout, and still had the house key when she threatened to break up. What is he supposed to do - just leave them sitting in the freezer?

P.S. "Women with complexes" is not quite the same as "complex women" or "women of good complexion", is it haha...

what eloquent, insightful brilliant stuff? we are not talking about you are we?

[SoBad]

what eloquent, insightful brilliant stuff? we are not talking about you are we?

Yeah that's what the rest of the thread is talking about, I don't know about you - Safin bud wannabe...:grin: ;)

[zapvor]

Yeah that's what the rest of the thread is talking about, I don't know about you - Safin bud wannabe...:grin: ;)

oh is that right. well.....ok...i...lose..:-(

[SoBad]

oh is that right. well.....ok...i...lose..:-(

Yeah thought so. Bet you'd grab the whole fridge, complete with freezer and the steaks, in this situation...:-o

[zapvor]

Yeah thought so. Bet you'd grab the whole fridge, complete with freezer and the steaks, in this situation...:-o

LOL. that OP was interesting. i am not sure.

[SoBad]

LOL. that OP was interesting. i am not sure.

Are you talking about the OP or the Marsha P...??:confused:

[zapvor]

the steak story one.

[SoBad]

the steak story one.

Well she did bulldose him into "pitching in" and he did pay for two of them, according to her own story. At least he didn't clean out her place completely (like you probably would have)...

[zapvor]

hmm....no comment. this thread is way off track now. i say the girl at the next table pays!

[Bad Dog]

Thanks for your compliments! Yeah, I post eloquent, insightful and brilliant stuff all the time, too bad nobody gets it most of the time. I mean come on, he did pay for two steaks at the checkout, and still had the house key when she threatened to break up. What is he supposed to do - just leave them sitting in the freezer?

P.S. "Women with complexes" is not quite the same as "complex women" or "women of good complexion", is it haha...

On rare occasions, a woman may be all three.

SoBad – Now that you and Zapvor are becoming the best of friends, it would be great if you join many of us in the Washington DC metro area, at a meeting of the Mid-Atlantic chapter (in case you haven't already). As you may know, Zapvor is the President, Vice-President, Treasurer and Secretary.

[zapvor]

On rare occasions, a woman may be all three.

SoBad – Now that you and Zapvor are becoming the best of friends, it would be great if you join many of us in the Washington DC metro area, at a meeting of the Mid-Atlantic chapter (in case you haven't already). As you may know, Zapvor is the President, Vice-President, Treasurer and Secretary.

hahaha. thanks bad dog. yea sobad you should really consider it. speaking of which, i need to do something. too lazy now. hah. i am just the founder. there are no officers yet. we need to set those up. bad dog was photographer,but hes been missing in action for a lil while now...

[SoBad]

On rare occasions, a woman may be all three.

SoBad – Now that you and Zapvor are becoming the best of friends, it would be great if you join many of us in the Washington DC metro area, at a meeting of the Mid-Atlantic chapter (in case you haven't already). As you may know, Zapvor is the President, Vice-President, Treasurer and Secretary.

Thanks for your off-topic welcoming comment. I definitely love zapvor because he’s cool. Zapvor and I have been working very closely on the MAC issue over the past couple of months, via private correspondence. We are both very pleased with the progress that we have managed to make thus far, and continue to look forward to working together even better in the near future than we have in the past.

As far as the steaks are concerned, I am glad that everyone now agrees that he was right to confiscate them. Also, implicit in Marsha’s rant was the implication that unwilling provision of favours on her part at the rate of 3-4 occasions per week over a period of two months exceeds in value the one-time installation of a microwave oven. Does anyone else find this implication a disturbing one?

[Bad Dog]

As far as the steaks are concerned, I am glad that everyone now agrees that he was right to confiscate them. Also, implicit in Marsha’s rant was the implication that unwilling provision of favours on her part at the rate of 3-4 occasions per week over a period of two months exceeds in value the one-time installation of a microwave oven. Does anyone else find this implication a disturbing one?

So since you indicate that none of her favors may have been rendered with a spirit of generosity, perhaps you might also suggest that he should magnanimously leave the microwave he installed for her – but just carry off the microwave door? :)

[Big Fed]

Guy always unless the girl really want to pay which neever happens.

[SoBad]

So since you indicate that none of her favors may have been rendered with a spirit of generosity, perhaps you might also suggest that he should magnanimously leave the microwave he installed for her – but just carry off the microwave door? :)

No, I would not suggest that at all. Even though she had not paid him for the labour, she did presumably pay for the microwave door. More importantly, what use would he have for the microwave door?

If he wanted to be magnanimous in terminating the relationship, one thing he could have done is take the remaining two steaks out of the freezer, place them inside the microwave, program 60-minute "high" cycle, and leave a note something like "Dear Marsha, thanks for all the love you have given me. Dinner is in the oven", before pushing the "start" button and leaving the flat.

[mucat]

Guy always unless the girl really want to pay which neever happens.

Escort does not count.

[richw76]

No, I would not suggest that at all. Even though she had not paid him for the labour, she did presumably pay for the microwave door. More importantly, what use would he have for the microwave door?

If he wanted to be magnanimous in terminating the relationship, one thing he could have done is take the remaining two steaks out of the freezer, place them inside the microwave, program 60-minute "high" cycle, and leave a note something like "Dear Marsha, thanks for all the love you have given me. Dinner is in the oven", before pushing the "start" button and leaving the flat.

Nice, sounds like something a "Real World" cast member would do. That being said, I like your creativity!! :-)

And With the Marsha P thing Dude should break up with her anyway. If they have been dating less than 6 months and he is already only getting some 3 times a week he's in trouble.

But at least she got him a new pet, say hello to your new best friend spanky the monkey.

[SoBad]

Nice, sounds like something a "Real World" cast member would do. That being said, I like your creativity!! :-)

And With the Marsha P thing Dude should break up with her anyway. If they have been dating less than 6 months and he is already only getting some 3 times a week he's in trouble.

But at least she got him a new pet, say hello to your new best friend spanky the monkey.

Thanks! I have not seen "Real World" show yet, but I'm sure I'll see it somewhere.

As for 3 times a week, remember, this is the girlfriend that he DOESN'T spend any money on. His higher range girls are probably more generous with their time, so why dump Marsh as long as she cooks him organic dinners at her own expense on those evenings when they do get together?

[richw76]

Thanks! I have not seen "Real World" show yet, but I'm sure I'll see it somewhere.

As for 3 times a week, remember, this is the girlfriend that he DOESN'T spend any money on. His higher range girls are probably more generous with their time, so why dump Marsh as long as she cooks him organic dinners at her own expense on those evenings when they do get together?

Good point. She was obviously WAY more into him. He just didn't give a care. So he got some freebies and when things got hard he did a peace out, and you're also right he probably did have a real gf and old girl was a little side action.

I've been married long enough to forget some. I don't remeber their ages anymore but if either one is more than 23 they are in trouble.

Soo... to original thread I now say. Guy pays unless he really doesn't like the girl that much then let her pay.

[heycal]

Soo... to original thread I now say. Guy pays unless he really doesn't like the girl that much then let her pay.

Seems a reasonable compromise.

[hb_hound]

The guy should always pay for the first date. After that it is up to the person making the date (which the majority of the time will be the guy) to take care of the cost.

[Blask]

I look at it as it's the norm for the guy to pay.... ESPECIALLY when you first start dating. But even once you've been together for a while, it's normal for the girl to pay. However, every girl I have ever dated has treated me every so often to a good meal or asked me to a special dinner where she takes care of everything. It's really a nice surprise and appreciated.

[tin]

If you're still dating, the guy should pay. If already together, you can talk about it...

[Storm_Kyori]

Pay, always. Unless you're in a relationship, then she might want to split it or take care of part of the meal or date.
EX: "You pay for this and I'll pay for that"

Sometimes, when with friends or in a group date thing, one of us draws to pay and then next time out same thing.

[ferim]

In a date, I try to always pay. In a relationship, I pay sometimes, she pays sometimes.

[SoBad]

Good point. She was obviously WAY more into him. He just didn't give a care. So he got some freebies and when things got hard he did a peace out, and you're also right he probably did have a real gf and old girl was a little side action.

Exactly. Expectations weren't being met obviously, so he had to do what was right for him. Even from her side of the story it is clear that he had been investing heavily in the relationship, and when she started acting up and pressuring him into sharing grocery bills, he did what he needed to in order to contain the damage.

[J011yroger]

Wait, is this the thread with the steaks in it?

J

[SoBad]

Wait, is this the thread with the steaks in it?

J

Well it's one of them, the original actually, I believe. I hope that inspires you to write, because seeing how Marsha hasn't been responding to feedback much, she is probably absorbing all this and learning invaluable lessons as she reads our comments.

[Love Game]

I once had a guy tell me that he believed paying for the date entitled him to sexual favors. that was the first and last time i ever dated him. in other words, he actually thought that buying someone dinner entitled him to have sex with her. but he wasn't honest enough to make that clear before he'd gotten her alone in his car. silly wabbit :D

i say both should pay equally and leave the sex out of it altogether. the concept of "dating" is dated, IMO.

[heycal]

I once had a guy tell me that he believed paying for the date entitled him to sexual favors. that was the first and last time i ever dated him. in other words, he actually thought that buying someone dinner entitled him to have sex with her. but he wasn't honest enough to make that clear before he'd gotten her alone in his car. silly wabbit :D

In his defense, I would think it wise to keep his viewpoint on this to himself with potential new dates.

[GPG]

If guy invites, guy pays
If girl invites, girl pays
If both agree to go out to eat or whatever you go to, chek should be split for how many each one consume or divided by 2

[heycal]

Well it's one of them, the original actually, I believe. I hope that inspires you to write, because seeing how Marsha hasn't been responding to feedback much, she is probably absorbing all this and learning invaluable lessons as she reads our comments.

Yes, this is the original thread. The selfish and self-centered Marsha's story can be found at post 147.

I highly recommend all of you of go back and re-read the entirety of #147. The delight is in the details, and the many twists and turns and asides of it all.

[Love Game]

In his defense, I would think it wise to keep his viewpoint on this to himself with potential new dates.

ya think!!! :shock: :razz:

otoh, at least he had the honesty to mention it while we were still at dinner, thus giving me a (waaaay tooooo late) heads-up. but to tell you the truth, i wonder what percentage of guys have exactly the same concept in mind but sneakily and dishonestly keep it to themselves verbally, while physically acting it out just the same???

[seffina]

I don't like splitting the bill. It just makes the date come to a screeching halt for me. I usually will either pick up the bill or he will, it's random and I think it works out pretty evenly.

[heycal]

I don't like splitting the bill. It just makes the date come to a screeching halt for me. I usually will either pick up the bill or he will, it's random and I think it works out pretty evenly.

This supports my earlier argument. If a guy asks a girl to split the bill, he has greatly damaged his chances of scoring that night.

[Expired]

Finally, a thread I can connect with.
Some of the main points I argue about with my friends are over women and their thought process.

(Right now I've only read the first few posts, I plan to read the thread in its entirety later. Sorry for the wall of text.)

Since I'm 20 years old, substitute all instances of 'woman' with 'girls'.
I'm hoping that once females reach a certain age, they might mature a little. They might take up some responsibilities for themselves.

Hell yes on women paying since they are all for "equal rights". I think it's BS that the pressure of always paying for stuff is pushed on us, which then makes everything in a relationship much harder. (For the man of course) Women talk about having all these problems, how stressful a relationship can be, yadda yadda. Women just coast along in relationships, freeload, they are in it for themselves and are along for the ride. All the stress is put on the man. To make all the decisions on where to go, what to do, then having to calculate in the costs. You have to budget your dates, because once a girl gets accustomed to a certain lifestyle and then gets dropped down a bracket in money being spent on her, you can bet she will drop you in a heartbeat.

It seems like women only think about one thing, and that's money.. Or perhaps they don't think about it at all? It seems as though every girl I have ever dated looked at me as an endless pocket book, but that just might be my luck. They would get pissed off when I wouldn't want to waste gas driving 15 mins to hang out for 30-45 mins, and it was like they didn't even understand. (Gas was around 4$ a gallon when I dated my last two girlfriends) It's like they couldn't comprehend the cost of driving around, paying for food for two people, movies, etc.. They would never offer to pay for anything, expected me to pick up the check on everything, take them everywhere on a daily basis.. It got to the point where I would tell them they can go ahead and order then wait for them to pay, or if they wanted to go somewhere I would come up with an excuse to stay at home. Then in the end when you explain why you are breaking up with them, they say that If you had only asked for them to pay they would have done it without hesitation. In fact, they always wanted to pay, you just didn't ask. Then they accuse YOU of thinking about money too much, and basing the relationship and everything you do on money. Well I say FU** that, it's BS how if a man doesn't pay for anything he is seen as cheap or an as**ole. If a man doesn't plan what he does based on money, you can bet he won't have any. The problem is women have money on their heart, whereas men have it on the mind. This isn't the early 1900's, women are perfectly capable of getting a job and paying for things. When they do get a job however, they spend it all on clothes/accessories/etc. for themselves. They don't have any knowledge of how to save.

Please, tell me females mature with age.. -___- I wouldn't be surprised if as they got older, their lust for money and material objects grew. I find it ridiculous how many divorces are in favor of the female, when they shouldn't get half of what they are "entitled" to. Even when they are the ones who file for divorce against what could be the best husband on earth, they always seem to come out on top. They continue to freeload, sucking and leeching off the male population. They expect alimony, child support well over what is called for, and even then visitation rights are limited because the woman is a bit**.

I say it is time for the reversal. It's time for a new age where a man getting a divorce gets custody of the children because he is the better parent, not custody based on who has the vagina. Where women offer to pay for things and work to support themselves. An age where men are not oppressed by women who think they are mistreated when in reality they receive the same, if not more rights than men.

//end rant.

On the topic precisely..
Whomever plans out the date should pay for it, whether it be a romantic evening or going to play mini golf. The only problem with this is that most of the planning is left up to the male, which might be a subconscious strategy to get the guy to pay for everything, or women are just indecisive as hell.

If it is a random thing, say we are driving around thinking of something to do and decide to go ice skating.. I think it should be split. (Whats sad is even thinking about this situation, I feel obligated to pay. WTF)

The girl should offer to pay for stuff sometimes.

My relationship thoughts.
I guess these are my thoughts on any future relationships based off of my previous ones.
I'll pay for the first 2 or 3 dates, but after that I expect her to split it. If she doesn't seem too keen on splitting it, I may stick it out a little longer and see how things turn out if I like her a lot. If she never offers to pay for anything within the first month, I'll dump her.

Back into ranting..
My last girlfriend was a fuc**** drain on me. I don't know what I was thinking, the drive was seriously worse than a lot of your commutes I'm sure. I did it almost every day for two weeks until I had an epiphany. I called her up and told her I was breaking up with her, she then asked why and I said I was spending too much time and money on her. She argued that I was a cheap as**ole. I explained to her what I had realized/almost forgot, a relationship isn't one sided. I told her that she wasn't contributing anything to the relationship, my contributions greatly outweighed hers and I thought there was something wrong with that. Isn't the purpose of initiating a relationship to get something in return, to benefit from it in some way?

I think I just need to move to Europe, perhaps this is mainly an American mentality. I need to find me a nice Eastern European girl that is into tennis, easy on the eyes, and fun to be around.

[Love Game]

i just don't see the reason for one person to pay for the company of another, unless their relationship has progressed to that point or if one person's income far exceeds that of the other.

if two people of the same sex/gender decide to do something together, they usually pay their own way. IMO there should be no difference when two people of opposite sex are getting to know one another.

if one of the datees assumes that paying for a "date" equals "paying for sex after the date," then the person being treated s/b giving the opportunity ahead of time to determine whether the price of the date is the amount s/he wishes to sell his/her sexual favors for.

[Hot Sauce]

That reminds me, CC, who paid last time?

[Love Game]

This supports my earlier argument. If a guy asks a girl to split the bill, he has greatly damaged his chances of scoring that night.

and this supports my earlier argument that many guys believe that dating is a form of legalized and very cheap prostitution.

[heycal]

and this supports my earlier argument that many guys believe that dating is a form of legalized and very cheap prostitution.

And this is a problem for you?

[Love Game]

And this is a problem for you?

not so long as both parties agree ahead of time so that no expectations are taken for granted or hidden :razz:

[heycal]

Finally, a thread I can connect with.
Some of the main points I argue about with my friends are over women and their thought process.

(Right now I've only read the first few posts, I plan to read the thread in its entirety later. Sorry for the wall of text.)

Since I'm 20 years old, substitute all instances of 'woman' with 'girls'.
I'm hoping that once females reach a certain age, they might mature a little. They might take up some responsibilities for themselves.

Hell yes on women paying since they are all for "equal rights". I think it's BS that the pressure of always paying for stuff is pushed on us, which then makes everything in a relationship much harder. (For the man of course) Women talk about having all these problems, how stressful a relationship can be, yadda yadda. Women just coast along in relationships, freeload, they are in it for themselves and are along for the ride. All the stress is put on the man. To make all the decisions on where to go, what to do, then having to calculate in the costs. You have to budget your dates, because once a girl gets accustomed to a certain lifestyle and then gets dropped down a bracket in money being spent on her, you can bet she will drop you in a heartbeat.

It seems like women only think about one thing, and that's money.. Or perhaps they don't think about it at all? It seems as though every girl I have ever dated looked at me as an endless pocket book, but that just might be my luck. They would get pissed off when I wouldn't want to waste gas driving 15 mins to hang out for 30-45 mins, and it was like they didn't even understand. (Gas was around 4$ a gallon when I dated my last two girlfriends) It's like they couldn't comprehend the cost of driving around, paying for food for two people, movies, etc.. They would never offer to pay for anything, expected me to pick up the check on everything, take them everywhere on a daily basis.. It got to the point where I would tell them they can go ahead and order then wait for them to pay, or if they wanted to go somewhere I would come up with an excuse to stay at home. Then in the end when you explain why you are breaking up with them, they say that If you had only asked for them to pay they would have done it without hesitation. In fact, they always wanted to pay, you just didn't ask. Then they accuse YOU of thinking about money too much, and basing the relationship and everything you do on money. Well I say FU** that, it's BS how if a man doesn't pay for anything he is seen as cheap or an as**ole. If a man doesn't plan what he does based on money, you can bet he won't have any. The problem is women have money on their heart, whereas men have it on the mind. This isn't the early 1900's, women are perfectly capable of getting a job and paying for things. When they do get a job however, they spend it all on clothes/accessories/etc. for themselves. They don't have any knowledge of how to save.

Please, tell me females mature with age.. -___- I wouldn't be surprised if as they got older, their lust for money and material objects grew. I find it ridiculous how many divorces are in favor of the female, when they shouldn't get half of what they are "entitled" to. Even when they are the ones who file for divorce against what could be the best husband on earth, they always seem to come out on top. They continue to freeload, sucking and leeching off the male population. They expect alimony, child support well over what is called for, and even then visitation rights are limited because the woman is a bit**.

I say it is time for the reversal. It's time for a new age where a man getting a divorce gets custody of the children because he is the better parent, not custody based on who has the vagina. Where women offer to pay for things and work to support themselves. An age where men are not oppressed by women who think they are mistreated when in reality they receive the same, if not more rights than men.

//end rant.

On the topic precisely..
Whomever plans out the date should pay for it, whether it be a romantic evening or going to play mini golf. The only problem with this is that most of the planning is left up to the male, which might be a subconscious strategy to get the guy to pay for everything, or women are just indecisive as hell.

If it is a random thing, say we are driving around thinking of something to do and decide to go ice skating.. I think it should be split. (Whats sad is even thinking about this situation, I feel obligated to pay. WTF)

The girl should offer to pay for stuff sometimes.

My relationship thoughts.
I guess these are my thoughts on any future relationships based off of my previous ones.
I'll pay for the first 2 or 3 dates, but after that I expect her to split it. If she doesn't seem too keen on splitting it, I may stick it out a little longer and see how things turn out if I like her a lot. If she never offers to pay for anything within the first month, I'll dump her.

Back into ranting..
My last girlfriend was a fuc**** drain on me. I don't know what I was thinking, the drive was seriously worse than a lot of your commutes I'm sure. I did it almost every day for two weeks until I had an epiphany. I called her up and told her I was breaking up with her, she then asked why and I said I was spending too much time and money on her. She argued that I was a cheap as**ole. I explained to her what I had realized/almost forgot, a relationship isn't one sided. I told her that she wasn't contributing anything to the relationship, my contributions greatly outweighed hers and I thought there was something wrong with that. Isn't the purpose of initiating a relationship to get something in return, to benefit from it in some way?

I think I just need to move to Europe, perhaps this is mainly an American mentality. I need to find me a nice Eastern European girl that is into tennis, easy on the eyes, and fun to be around.

Let me first say that I loved this post. Not quite as brilliant as Marsha's post #147, but entertaining on a number of levels all the same. Good stuff.

Maybe your unlucky and I'm lucky, or maybe it's a different age thing (I'm 46), or maybe it's the women we're attracted to or who are attracted to us. But in my 30 years of relationships, I've come across few if any materialistic girlfriends who expected me to cater to them. In my experience, it's women who put a ton of more work and TLC into a relationship than men do.

[heycal]

not so long as both parties agree ahead of time so that no expectations are taken for granted or hidden :razz:

How would you advise a man to broach this topic with you or anyone, and what would you think would be a fair offer?

[CanadianChic]

I usually take care of this with a simple "you won't be getting any" prior to accepting the invite.

[PCXL-Fan]

there are several articles that women in many major american urban centers under the age of 30 are making more money then males of the same age group

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0334472920070803
In Dallas, these women earn 20 percent more than men, while in New York City they earn 17 percent more.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0334472920070803



redundant article on the same topic im just placing to display validity of first article....
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html

Women demand equality in almost all facets of everything. I say women deserve it, but i also say either males should feel no social obligation and expect no social shame for not pay for a first date (or the majority of dates in a relationship) or women should experience the same level of social guilt and mockery that males can sometimes experience with not paying (a shame that at times is perpetuated and reinforced by women)

There are certainly some women that may say they don't mind paying, but its just a social gesture, and in truth you've just severely damaged your odds of developing a relationship with them and worse they may speak negatively about you behind your back.

[Love Game]

How would you advise a man to broach this topic with you or anyone, and what would you think would be a fair offer?

that question leads me to believe that you've never done it. if that's the case, then you've never been honest about your intentions.

why not?
unless you believe your intentions are morally wrong? because if you thought they were morally right, you wouldn't be hiding them.

[heycal]

there are several articles that women in many major american urban centers under the age of 30 are making more money then males of the same age group

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0334472920070803



redundant article on the same topic im just placing to display validity of first article....
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html

Women demand equality in almost all facets of everything. So i say either males should feel no social obligation and expect no social shame for not pay for a first date or women should experience the same level of social guilt and mocker that males can sometimes experience with not paying (a shame that at times is perpetuated and reinforced by women)


Society in general is so heavily stacked in favor of men (particularly white men) in a myriad of obvous and unobvious ways that an expectation to pick up the tab on a date is a small price to pay.

[heycal]

that question leads me to believe that you've never done it. if that's the case, then you've never been honest about your intentions.

why not?
unless you believe your intentions are morally wrong? because if you thought they were morally right, you wouldn't be hiding them.

Not quite clear what you're asking here. Please clarify your questions.

But in general, yes, my intentions are generally morally wrong.:wink:

[PCXL-Fan]

Society in general is so heavily stacked in favor of men (particularly white men) in a myriad of obvous and unobvious ways that an expectation to pick up the tab on a date is a small price to pay.

I added some points in quotations while you were responding to me adding that i am refering to dates in general.

this idea that the average North American male in general has society so stacked in his favor is a completely outdated concept, is only true for the upper 3% of men (the good old boys club). We aren't living in the 80s, women have made phenomenal strides.

The focus on the inequality is on the the sports stars, the politicians, the top level ceos, your focus is on the top 3% of males.

In truth the myriad of obvous and unobvious inequality and equality in northamerica among the average woman and man is a mishmash. But all social onus and guilt is focused on female inequality.

[Love Game]

And this is a problem for you?

not so long as both parties agree ahead of time so that no expectations are taken for granted or hidden :razz:

Originally Posted by heycal
How would you advise a man to broach this topic with you or anyone, and what would you think would be a fair offer?

Not quite clear what you're asking here. Please clarify your questions.

But in general, yes, my intentions are generally morally wrong.:wink:

i'm not the one asking you.
youre the one asking me -- see your questions above

dishonesty in human interrelations. that's what youre engaging in if you "date" with the intention of receiving sex in return for the date UNLESS you let the "datee" know in advance so that she can decide in all honesty whether or not she wants to play prostitute to your john.

if you have respect for other people's rights to make their own decisions in the full sunshine of full disclosure, then it would be a "fair offer," to use your words, to simply let someone you want to spend time with know that and tell them that you don't believe in dating per se. And tell them why, including the concept that youre not into the whole sex in exchange for a date concept because you think that's sexist and demeaning. Then put on your thinking cap and think of something that would be fun without costing money. there are tons and tons of things that allow people to spend time together at very low cost. that way the two of you can get to know whether the other is a healthy individual and not someone who exchanges bodily fluids too easily.

i believe in getting to know another person in honesty and without the spectre of some hidden agenda. a person who hides his/her agenda is a predator, imo. honesty is the best policy, no?

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/F/0/179p.gif

[heycal]

i'm not the one asking you.
youre the one asking me -- see your questions above


Actually, you asked two questions of me in your last post. (Hint: look for the question marks.)



dishonesty in human interrelations. that's what youre engaging in if you "date" with the intention of receiving sex in return for the date UNLESS you let the "datee" know in advance so that she can decide in all honesty whether or not she wants to play prostitute to your john.

if you have respect for other people's rights to make their own decisions in the full sunshine of full disclosure, then it would be a "fair offer," to use your words, to simply let someone you want to spend time with know that and tell them that you don't believe in dating per se. And tell them why, including the concept that youre not into the whole sex in exchange for a date concept because you think that's sexist and demeaning. Then put on your thinking cap and think of something that would be fun without costing money. there are tons and tons of things that allow people to spend time together at very low cost. that way the two of you can get to know whether the other is a healthy individual and not someone who exchanges bodily fluids too easily.

i believe in getting to know another person in honesty and without the spectre of some hidden agenda. a person who hides his/her agenda is a predator, imo. honesty is the best policy, no?

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/F/0/179p.gif

I don't know where the heck your coming from, sister. My goal as a typical guy is to 'score', and I generally pursue whatever strategy I think would best realize that result. And I'm thinking this "total honesty" approach ain't gonna fly with 99 percent of chicks.

[heycal]

I added some points in quotations while you were responding to me adding that i am refering to dates in general.

this idea that the average North American male in general has society so stacked in his favor is a completely outdated concept, is only true for the upper 3% of men (the good old boys club). We aren't living in the 80s, women have made phenomenal strides.

The focus on the inequality is on the the sports stars, the politicians, the top level ceos, your focus is on the top 3% of males.

In truth the myriad of obvous and unobvious inequality and equality in northamerica among the average woman and man is a mishmash. But all social onus and guilt is focused on female inequality.

Women have made strides, sure, but nowhere near enough to ever equal what men have. Do women have some advantages in some areas? Definitely. But overall, it's still a man's world in about a hundred different ways.

I don't know if I'm in the top 3% of males -- whatever that means -- but as a relatively privileged white male, I feel I have been dealt an unfairly good hand in life. I got NO complaints whatsover.

[Love Game]

Actually, you asked two questions of me in your last post. (Hint: look for the question marks.)



I don't know where the heck your coming from, sister. My goal as a typical guy is to 'score', and I generally pursue whatever strategy I think would best realize that result. And I'm thinking this "total honesty" approach ain't gonna fly with 99 percent of chicks.

when you dont respect other people,
that shows you dont respect yourself either.

on the other hand, treating a human being as a disposable tissue, an object upon which to "score," as you put it, isn't the least bit respectable, as i suspect you might know.

at least you know what you are.
just make sure you dont blame it on anybody else :wink:

[certifiedjatt]

if it's a ''date'', then the guy pays. if it's a relationship, there should be a new protocol. in a relationship, you are CONCERNED about each other and thus, each other's finances. only a complete bi**h would think less of her bf because he wants to split.

why would anyone want to be with such a girl, other than to...u know.

[certifiedjatt]

Actually, you asked two questions of me in your last post. (Hint: look for the question marks.)



I don't know where the heck your coming from, sister. My goal as a typical guy is to 'score', and I generally pursue whatever strategy I think would best realize that result. And I'm thinking this "total honesty" approach ain't gonna fly with 99 percent of chicks.

you are not a typical guy. you're 46, and your goal is still to "score". if it's still a goal, chances are you aren't going to achieve it with any hope of sustainability. but since you mentioned you're privileged, i assume you buy necklaces and prada dresses for the goalkeepers?

[heycal]

at least you know what you are.
just make sure you dont blame it on anybody else :wink:

Blame what on who? I don't see anything to complain about here.

you are not a typical guy. you're 46, and your goal is still to "score". if it's still a goal, chances are you aren't going to achieve it with any hope of sustainability. but since you mentioned you're privileged, i assume you buy necklaces and prada dresses for the goalkeepers?

Newsflash, son. You're male instincts don't disappear when you hit 25 or something. Your goals remain pretty much the same.

And pay attention to what's been posted: I already said the women I've known aren't materialistic at all, so there are no prada dresses and necklaces involved here, nor am I wealthy anyway. I'm just priviliged in an overall sense due to a combination of factors.

[certifiedjatt]

Blame what on who? I don't see anything to complain about here.



Newsflash, son. You're male instincts don't disappear when you hit 25 or something. Your goals remain pretty much the same.

And pay attention to what's been posted: I already said the women I've known aren't materialistic at all, so there are no prada dresses and necklaces involved here, nor am I wealthy anyway. I'm just priviliged in an overall sense due to a combination of factors.

what is it with people using words like 'son', or 'chief', or 'junior' as a comedic tool! i thought those stopped being funny around 1990.

anyway, i'm sure your male instincts don't disappear when you hit 25! they probably don't even fully develop by then. but...man...46...and still looking to 'score'? it just shows that you haven't really done much. that's all. not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it's a possibility.

[heycal]

anyway, i'm sure your male instincts don't disappear when you hit 25! they probably don't even fully develop by then. but...man...46...and still looking to 'score'? it just shows that you haven't really done much. that's all. not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it's a possibility.

Done much of what, kid? I've done plenty!

[Justin]

if you are gay, who pays??

srs question

[The Don]

the gay man instead of the gay hemale LOL

[super_forehand]

if you are gay, who pays??

srs question

whoever asked the other out.

same for strait.

u invite me, u pay, i invite u, i pay.

gets rid of the whole who pays guy girl bullcrap.

[equinox]

No sane guy will pay for more than two restaurant dinner dates, unless the girl/women appears responsive to putting out.

Never buy "girls" drinks who you haven't sleep with, that's just exploitative behavior. Only buy for close friends you know will shout you the next round.

If you casually suggest "hanging out" together and both meet at a venue, that's a clear split the bill situation.

Equal opportunity implies equal responsibility.