What do you think about this 14 year old?

[Bundey]

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[BigBUBBA]

His shots and strokes are sluggish

[Bundey]

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[bluegrasser]

Sluggish ? I think he's looking ok, his volley ( racquet) need to be more out front, especially his bkhnd. Maybe the bubster meant -he didn't look to intense. If he's a relative beginner, say playing 6months to a year - I'd say he's doing ok.

[Bundey]

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[xtremerunnerars]

3.5 or 3.0 if i had to say anything. Hard to tell without seeing where most of the shots landed.

[Bundey]

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[BigBUBBA]

3.0. His volley preperation was lazy. His strokes are sloppy. He doesn't seem like he enjoys it.

[brayman9]

his groundstrokes didn't seam to be anymore then a little shoulder and arm. No legs or lower body to build some power.

[LarougeNY]

get him to watch some tapes of roger at wimbledon, especially of volleys. He should see that his footwork, which seems kinda forced, is really important in the transition game. And cut out that huge takeback with the backhand volley, but I wouldn't know for a two hander (more of a fan of one handed backhand volleys)

Forehand looks like it gets good pace and spin, but the backhand looked like the best shot he had. Footwork isn't there, so thats something he needs to work on especially closing the stance a little on forehands to get more pace and spin via rotation.

He's doing all right for a 14 year old.

[Bundey]

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[babolat15]

Hes ok but needs to work on his footwork

[Bundey]

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[TennisNinja]

I'd say 2.5 to 3.0

[babolat15]

you have to have the foundation of footwork first

[Mastermind]

Good strokes are built around good footwork. Like everyone else here, I agree that he needs to work on his footwork a lot.

[brayman9]

his groundstrokes didn't seam to be anymore then a little shoulder and arm. No legs or lower body to build some power.

Did anyone else think this or just me. Also footwork is key.

[103xStateChamp]

yea it looks like he didnt enjoy it.

[Bundey]

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[Bundey]

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[103xStateChamp]

It just seems like he would rather be somewhere else I would like to see where is shots land though.

[Bundey]

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[NebAce1]

I think that he's a 3.0 or 3.5.

[103xStateChamp]

Just the way he hits and moves very lazy makes him look like he dosnt enjoy it.

[Bundey]

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[103xStateChamp]

I think it just might of been the camera man. he might of felt too instructed but who knows?

[Bundey]

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[Mastermind]

Forehand: He needs to use his legs more on the strokes and keep his shoulders turned a bit longer, he opens up too early.

Backhand: Not having a two-hander myself, I can't see too much wrong with that stroke other than not bending his knees enough.

Volleys: He needs to keep the racquet head above his wrist at all times, even on low balls like the 3rd volley, which he misses almost completely, he lets the racquet head drop almost as if he was going to let it go to the ground. He needs to be contacting the volleys out in front of him more. As I saw, he was catching them pretty close to his body. Footwork is key in volleys too. Watch some of Federer's volleys. http://youtube.com/watch?v=KblriBfkyYE

You'll notice that the on the forehand volley, his left leg is farther in front than his right leg; and on the backhand volley, his right leg is farther in front than his left leg. This keeps him balanced and also keeps the racquet head in front of him.

[TacoBellBorderBowl1946]

from what people say he doesn't enjoy it, I don't think thats the case. He just might get a little nervous in front of the camera.

Teach him to spilt step right before the opponoent hits the ball . This should get him in better position for his strokes.

[LarougeNY]

Did anyone else think this or just me. Also footwork is key.

I also think it looks like he's just muscling the ball of both wings, and a big reason for that is because hes always hitting in an open stance in the forehand, some rotation would follow a more closed stance.

[topspin_17]

haha, i love your voice, bundey! like a sports commentator! well, i'm 14 too, and to be honest, his strokes are a bit lower than average. you could help him improve by telling him to:

- stay still when serving, not too much upper body movement.
- your student kind of runs like an army man! in emergency situations eg. dropshots, tell him to put his racket right out in front when he's running, so he doesn't have to take a backswing to hit that dropshot. he already has the power from his forward force, from running.
- his split steps are just fine...
- he moves too much when he volleys! tell him to split step first, and then hit the volley. volleying in mid-stride doesn't help. it adds too much power to the shot, so there is more risk of an error.
- footwork needs to be improved; his footwork is quite 'robotic'.
- his eye-work is quite good, just keep reminding to keep his eyes on the ball, and not at his target. you can mis-judge the ball when your eyes are off of the ball, just look at federer! his eyes just lock onto the ball!
- forehand: ever considering to try a closed stance? it provides more power, because you go more 'into' the ball, instead of jumping back from the ball at contact. sure, an open stance looks pretty, but it's the playing that counts. not the poses. shoulder rotation is too early, that's a disadvantage of an open stance. rotate the shoulders after he's hit the ball.
- backhand: i think this is his stronger stroke; because of the closed backhand stance, there is less shoulder rotation, and better results. his swing also looks a bit sturdier than the forehand.

happy hitting!

[Bundey]

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[Bundey]

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[103xStateChamp]

he should get in a ready position after serves when he lands he seems off balance and sloppy. he kinda falls off to the left. That could because of his toss though

[Forehand Forever]

Maybe have him on his toes more, he needs to jump into the court on the serve so maybe have his toss a little more out in front, overhead footwork needed work (scissor kick), he's probably not getting too much topspin on that backhand either.

What I really found from the video was that he can't be so flat footed. Everything else just needs a little work here and there, maybe not take the racquet back so far with the volleys.

[ayyhwang]

His form isn't good looks way too elastic not controlled

[darkblue]

A definite 2.5, maybe 3.0. Would not be competitive against an older retriever
3.0 player.

His hand-eye coordination and body-to-ball spacial visualization are suspect...this is reflected in the poor footwork (he does not "know where to
position himself in relation to the ball")

this is as important as stroke mechanics ..

[lilxjohnyy]

3.0 ... lazy and a lot like me except im better

[Bundey]

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[OrangeOne]

Wow - I can't believe no-one has commented on the serve / smash.

To me, he's 'wristing' the serve too much, too much of a wrist-snap, which (for my money) is abbreviating the serve follow-through too much. I could be wrong though, keen to see the opinions of others. He could be doing this because the ball toss does seem to close to him....

Split-step: should be a split-step onto the toes, as others have suggested in regards to being on one's toes often.

Volleys: Seems he's carving them up too much, should be punching through them a little more.

Hope that helps, I'm sure he's just nervous in regards to the liking-it-or-not question, most kids would be in front of a camera.

Edit: The volley comment (carving) is FH only. As others said, the BH is being hit too late...

[95nCode95]

his technique is very unorthodox. on his overhead he doesnt even has his other arm up in the air to have balance. his volleys are very very unorthodox, awkard, and in fact bad technique. his backhand volley is too close to him. On the serve he hits the ball actually behind his head which is obviously not good and his leg kinda kicks up instead of foreward. also when hes using the hip action, its way too abrupt which when it comes down ot grueling and long matches he maybe get too tired and hurt himself. tell him to do it smoother. but on the brightside, his forehand looks pretty good and and so does his backhand.

[Bundey]

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[OrangeOne]

Sorry - can't help on the NTRP front other than to say 3-3.5. I'm blurry at these levels as we don't have them in Australia, and I've learned all I know about them from this site. I have a much clearer picture in my mind of the 4.0+ levels, but am still a bit blurry on the lower levels.

[TacoBellBorderBowl1946]

3.0 ntrp, in my estimation

[Tanner77]

he looks good, but for a 2-3 year player not too good. im on my 2nd year and i'm 14 and i'm not bragging but my game looks better. he should jump more on his serve cause he looks like hes only 5'3 or somethin. his forehand looked great but it looked high and might have went out or something. his volleys are good but i think one of them went in the net on his backhand. he should work there. overhead was good don't know where it landed though.

[ayyhwang]

His NTRP would probably be around 3.0 - 3.5

[Mastermind]

3.0 at most I'd say.

[D Wilson]

Sorry, but this guy is horrible. I say this mainly because he has played 2-3 years. It looks like he has played 6 months. Sorry, just my thoughts.

[Bundey]

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[103xStateChamp]

Im 14 and I have played many tournaments (77-30) and I have seen plenty worse even at natl tournaments.

[Bundey]

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[brayman9]

he is not even close to being called a "bad" player. Anyways we are just hear to help him not say you don't think he is good.

[103xStateChamp]

Well that is good to know. I'm sure he is not a terrible player. He has won a few sattelites, so he is not terrible. Some trolls who are fat and lazy feel the need to be a jerk for no reason.

Dont worry about D wilson..he sux hard ;)

[b-laze]

he needs to work on his foot work it looks sluggish and sloppy

[b-laze]

needs to get his feet moving

[Volly master]

he didnt even up his arm up in the overhead. thats like rule no.1

[OrangeOne]

post deleted by me.

[Mnguyen05]

He is alright. He doesn't seem to be using a solid form. It looks like he can hit consistently, but without power. Try to loosen up his swings a little bit. And I think that everyone agrees that he needs to work his footwork (no offense or anything)

I would totally coach this kid. He looks like he can improve very dramatically in a somewhat short time. Mr NTRP: 3.0

[Bundey]

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[Sakumo]

Ok, so do you guys think he has good potential?

If he is 14 unfortunately no. I think he could still play at a good D2 college though.

[topspin_17]

well, if he improves really super-fast then he will have potential, but for now, i'm sad to say that he doesn't. for wimbledon, at least. he'd probably be a really good club player, by the looks of his swing!

to reply to bundey: his serve upper body should stay still when tossing the ball, because then he won't lose any energy to hit the ball. if he moves his body (excuse me for that, its just his legs) too much in toss, then he can lose power in the 'charge' or 'rewind' that generates serve power. look at ivanisevic's serve; he doesn't move his legs that much at all in serving.

[goober]

Ok, so do you guys think he has good potential?


Potential for what is the question.

Potential to play pro - nope.

Potential to play D1 college on a scholie- very unlikely. Almost all the D1 players I have seen at age 14 were pretty advanced players already- 4.5 and above.

Potential to play D2 or D3 college without scholie- pretty high if he keeps working and improving. But even this is not certain. I have seen a fair number of 14-16 year olds who were more advanced than he is that never played in college.

Potential to be eventually 5.0+ and enjoy the life time sport of tennis: Absolutely! :grin:

[Sakumo]

Im 14 and I have played many tournaments (77-30) and I have seen plenty worse even at natl tournaments.

HOLY S*** ARE YOU F****** INSANE????? What national tournaments have you played in? Obviously bad ones.

[topspin_17]

haha sakumo is right! national tournaments are full of really good players!

[Andres]

Ok, so do you guys think he has good potential?
Yes, you have good potential. Not to turn pro, but definitely yes to be a very good tennis player!

Keep on the good work, and work on your serve and volleys! :D

[103xStateChamp]

HOLY S*** ARE YOU F****** INSANE????? What national tournaments have you played in? Obviously bad ones.

lol i was trying to make him fell good.

[Bundey]

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[300Gkid]

move those feet, lots of little steps! :D

hahah i think he said that 5 times in a row

anyway, net game could use ALOT of work, same with the serve, footwork is sub-par. Groundstrokes look decent although i can't tell how fast they are going or if they are even going over the net

[Sakumo]

Some people on this board are courtyous, but some of you are jack azzes.

It's not that we are jack asses, it's what we know many 11-12 years who would whip the pants off of him. Yes he has potential to be a good college player, not to be a pro.

[darkblue]

this thread is too funny...

Delusional parent...

you are only going to cause pain for your player!

we gave you honest feedback on potential and you are not taking it well.

[NebAce1]

Yea but still there are a lot of kids at national tournaments that don't deserve to be there.

Oh and 103Statechamp I think I'm gonna be in a tournament that your going to be playing in the summer.

[Bundey]

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[Sakumo]

First off I'm not much older than this kid, an am NOT his parent. Second off I know he will never go pro. I'm not saying that and that isn't the part I'm complaining about. It is the comments like he is terrible, and some other rudeness. Now let's get this thread back on track.

Well he isn't THAT good. His serve looks forced and not fluid. To much twist like he is trying to hit to hard. When he gets bigger and stronger I think he will have more luck with tennis. Until then just keep trying to encourage him.

[103xStateChamp]

First off I'm not much older than this kid, an am NOT his parent. Second off I know he will never go pro. I'm not saying that and that isn't the part I'm complaining about. It is the comments like he is terrible, and some other rudeness. Now let's get this thread back on track.

If your going to put this video on here your going to have to expect rude comments. Everyone can find something wrong with someone elses game. everyone jumps to give advice thats the way it is.

[103xStateChamp]

Oh and 103Statechamp I think I'm gonna be in a tournament that your going to be playing in the summer.

What is that.

[Sakumo]

If your going to put this video on here your going to have to expect rude comments. Everyone can find something wrong with someone elses game. everyone jumps to give advice thats the way it is.

Exactly then everyone cries when they do haha.

[OrangeOne]

If your going to put this video on here your going to have to expect rude comments. Everyone can find something wrong with someone elses game. everyone jumps to give advice thats the way it is.

The fact that you state the above with such resignation is quite sad, and indicative of the way society is heading. I've heard it described as social decay - and if everyone has the attitude you have there, it will just keep getting worse and worse.

Rudeness should not be expected, ever, and it shouldn't be accepted. The more people that lead from the front, the better. It's perfectly possible to "jump to give advice", and yet still do it politely and constructively.

[Bundey]

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[Adrupert]

Sorry, but this guy is horrible. I say this mainly because he has played 2-3 years. It looks like he has played 6 months. Sorry, just my thoughts.

I am inclined to agree with this statement. He reminds me a lot of my good pal Donald.

[NebAce1]

What is that.

Sorry I don't want to tell over the message boards, because that might give away my name.

[vamosrafa15]

I have been training him, so tell me what you think. What NTRP do you think he is. Give me some tips so I can help him out. Thanks!
Video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=NiubYrh00O0)

hey that video is at centre court racquet club i have played so many championships and challengers there

[Bundey]

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[Connelly]

It's not that we are jack asses, it's what we know many 11-12 years who would whip the pants off of him. Yes he has potential to be a good college player, not to be a pro.

i am one of those 12 year olds :D
he has fairly good groundstrokes though.

[ayyhwang]

Yeah I've played at the Centre Court Club; it's in Newport News, VA right? That's where all the Mid-Atlantic L1's and L2's take place. A lot of them also take place at Virginia Beach Tennis and Country Club which is really nice.

[Bundey]

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[mJeez4293]

wow i was at zonals there last year virginia beach...

[VikingSamurai]

In all honesty. I have not seen any comments here that could be taken as rude. I would go on to say that maybe those posters were trying to be funny, but came off sounding stupid..

I do however feel that you are not wanting to hear anything negative, and so I question your motives for wanting to show this guys video?

If you know that he isn't going to go and do anything special in tennis. Then what is your point for this whole thread? I also think you need to take a chill pill, and not get all whiney when someone says something negative..

As for me, I think he would make a good social comp player, but dont think he has it to do much else.. In saying that, he shouldnt give up, and people like yourself shouldnt be putting people on the internet like this.. You have probably done more damage than good, and I sure hope he doesnt read this board...

[Justin]

He's not that bad. I think he has decent groundstrokes - just sloppy volleys and bad movement. And I don't really like his forehand. He's doing a windshield wiper follow through...and trust me, that is not good for your wrist.

[Bundey]

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[EasternRocks]

i think about 3.0. He needs to work on his tequnique and his volleys. No offence but i don't think hes too good for a 14 year old.

[Bundey]

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[VikingSamurai]

Thanks you. Your review was very productive and not rude. I was look for comments that weren't rude. If you say comments like "This kid is horrible" and have not constructive critisism aren't rude then you are dumber than sh**. :)

I seriously couldn't make sense of this post.. Are you saying that I am dumber than s**t?

[Bundey]

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[VikingSamurai]

Well I wouldn't call any kid a horrible player. But in saying that, I wouldn't be putting up a kids video for scutiny either?

As I said, I just hope he doesn't use these forums, because as I see it, what ever confidence he once had, would now be gone.. You really should have thought before you acted..

If a kid is good enough, you will see video of him when he wins Wimbledon. Until then, I suggest just letting them go about their business without being shown on the internet..

[BigBUBBA]

Tehee. I commented on the video

[Bundey]

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[VikingSamurai]

Doesn't make it ok?

[Bundey]

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[A.T.S.]

Backhand is a little too compact and for foot work tell him to volley while doing the split step. Feed him balls that are aimed directly at his body so he learns to use his feet to move out of the way of a shot. Then volley and split step again and hit passing shots down the line and let him learn to use his feet to move as quick as he can to the proper position to volley the passing shot back.

[VikingSamurai]

Yeah, if he said it was okay then it is okay, are you having trouble reading?

Why the attitude dude?

You are an abrasive type aren't you?;)

I think the point I was trying to get to was. What was "your" reasons to putting this kids video up.. Is it that you are training him, and in the hope that people liked him, you could get credit for this?. Having dreams of being a super coach, coaching child prodigy's are we?

Now I asked my question, you answered it. But in all honesty, you didn't need to make the stupid "reading" comment at the end.. Sheeesh...

[Rafa freak]

He doesn't point at his overhead.

[Custom+Hybrid]

He's doing good for 14.

I say hes 3.0 NTRP. 3.5 is a stretch.

Teach him well and you never know what he might become.

[ripcontrol]

just quit man:confused:

[Bundey]

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[noobplayer]

if he gets a decent coach, he can probably improve a lot within a year to become possibly a weak 4.0

[Borat]

Im gonna go ahead and say that the person in the video is the OP.

[Punisha]

attack the ball with your feet...

fix his technique... he needs to use his WHOLE body to hit the ball...

[Bundey]

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[NebAce1]

What is op?

original poster

[Bundey]

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[TacoBellBorderBowl1946]

Bundey is the op and person in the video, I believe.

[VikingSamurai]

Agreed..

Now if he was just honest from the start, then we would have been more helpfull...

[ayuan]

hey Bundey, whats your name? Who is that kid your coaching? what state you coach in?

[Bundey]

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[javier sergio]

Ok, thanks, but what do you mean by that? I'd like to give him advice.
What NTRP do you think he is?

NTRP 2, that's what I think

[JMS]

Bundey, do you coach for a living?

[Bundey]

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[Bundey]

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[JMS]

No, I go to school for a living.

so ur just coaching him in ur spare time, that's cool

[Bundey]

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[ayyhwang]

Yep, I am a few years older than him, and he goes to my school. He will play top 6 so if I help him I help the team. :) BTW do you like Weak florist. I like state! ;)

Lol 'Weak florist' don't you mean Wake Forest?

[Bundey]

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[ayyhwang]

Yes, that is what I was refering to. Just wanted to insult them :grin: BTW the Twerps stink too!

Yeah basically all Maryland sports teams suck. WEll i can't make fun of Virginia because of the past shooting..

[Bundey]

Yeah, I love VT, probably where I will end up going, but NC State is the best!

[Azzurri]

Well CIJ and Borat were right: See from post #27

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=2210594#post2210594

[jaZZirat]

NTRP doesnt apply to juniors but for the sake of grading him on the video posted I'd have to say 2.5 He's junior varsity or novice USTA at best. Keep working with him you should be able to continue to make a income from him for a long time.

[A.Davidson]

3.5 or 3.0 if i had to say anything. Hard to tell without seeing where most of the shots landed.

Yeah...Maybe 3.0+

[hyogen]

Yep, I am a few years older than him, and he goes to my school. He will play top 6 so if I help him I help the team. :) BTW do you like Weak florist. I like state! ;)

man, i know you've been called out before and have admitted to being the kid in the video....but this is just cute/hilarious.

a few years older than him?! the guy in the video sounds like he's 50 years old. :-D thanks for the good laugh. no one really is going to flame you for trying to act like you were the coach.

It's quite cute that you would pretend to not be the one being coached....because you were afraid of what people were going to say about you.

you have plenty of time to learn more about life man, keep practicing...don't let the 2.5 rating comments discourage you--let the low ratings make you want to get better even more. And don't be afraid to be yourself!

[NLBwell]

Regarless of all the fluff, I'm commenting on the video.

Volleys: START OVER. His swings without the ball are swings - they should not be for volleys. He needs to "punch" or "catch" the ball in front of his body. (Punch has been used traditionally, but I like the thought of catching the ball with the racket better)

Serve: looks like someone told him to bend his knees and squat down. Squatting down does no good on the serve and just gets in the way of a good serve. The knees should bend naturally as the hips drive out in front and the body winds up for the swing. When you uncoil your body the knees naturally drive up and through the ball as the racket moves toward the ball. He does drive his front hip out some, but releases it back early and hits from almost a straight body, thus not getting much power from it. He really doesn't coil his body a lot, either - watch some videos of Sampras and see how much he coils his body.

Overhead: He needs to get back quicker and hit the overheads moving forward. Looked like he actually hit them pretty well, but hitting them moving backward should be an emergency measure. He does not get back quickly. He should get back in about 1/3 the time as he does and should be waiting for the ball to get to him (way too many steps). If someone hits reasonably deep lobs he's going to have trouble getting back to hit overheads.

Groundstrokes: Look generally pretty good. He opens too soon on the forehand, so while he is getting some hip rotation for power he opens up early and loses a lot of it. I am not a fan of hitting all forehands open stance since you can get more power and accuracy with closed stance in many situations, but a lot of people do hit almost all open. (Pros vary open stance or closed stance depending upon what the situation dictates.) The problems some have pointed out on the backhand are basically because of timing. He hits it late - not far enough out in front of his body - and gets jammed by the ball. Thus his weight is moving backward and he is more fending off the ball rather than attacking it. He needs to find his contact point and work on being ready earlier.

There is no NTRP rating for juniors, and he is one of the reasons. Some of his strokes are better than 3.0 or even many 3.5 men (especially groundstrokes), but he likely would get beaten (possibly badly) by an experienced 3.0. His game is not mature yet. That is not a knock on him, just the knowledge that years of experience brings.

[Bundey]

Honestly, I'm beating 4.0 now, close the dang thread. This was a year ago, good god. I play so much better now, I will post a video soon. I'm playing #2 for my HS, and winning matches comfortably, please quite commenting on this thread, let it die.

[Azzurri]

Sweet, please let us see another video. Hope you improved...most likely you did.