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View Full Version : Fish Oil : the most beneficial supplement for your health.!!


Ano
07-03-2007, 11:08 PM
If you're up-to-date on your nutrition-for-health reading, you're well aware of the benefits of fish oil.

Based on undeniable scientific evidence and anecdotal evidence, I strongly encourage you to incorporate into your diet two specific omega-3 fatty acids: eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexanoic acid (DHA), commonly referred to as fish oils.

EPA and DHA deficiencies have been linked to problems that include, but are certainly not limited to heart disease, hypertension, arthritis, cancer, immune disorders, chronic intestinal disorders, growth ******ation, liver disorders, skin lesions, reproductive failure, visual problems, kidney disorders, and neurological disorders (1).

Fish oil is beneficial for :

Cardiovascular Health/Atherosclerosis/Hyperlipidemia

Hypertension

Cardiac Arrhythmias

Inflammatory Diseases of Joints and Connective Tissues

Osteoporosis

Kidney Disease/Renal Failure

Prostate Cancer

Colon Cancer

Breast Cancer

Skin Cancer

Crohn's Disease

Ulcerative Colitis

Asthma

Cystic Fibrosis

Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD)

Sickle Cell Anemia

Menstrual Symptoms

Vision/Eye problems (glaucoma)

Multiple Sclerosis

prenatal and postpartum support

Psoriasis

Photosensitivity

Diabetes/Insulin Resistance

Resting Metabolic Rate

Body Composition Regulation and Leptin:

Psychological Disorders

The Response to Stress

Migraine Headaches

Epilepsy

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS)

Fibromyaglia

Cirrhosis

If you aren't taking fish oil, consult your doctor and start taking it.

The typical fish oil capsule you'll encounter is 1000 mg fish oil; we, however, are more concerned with the EPA and DHA content of that 1000 mg. In most cases, you'll find 180 mg EPA and 120 mg DHA per capsule.

A good rule of thumb (especially based on the results of the clinical trials) is to consume 3-6 g combined EPA and DHA per day; at this capsule size, you'd need 10-20 capsules per day. For this reason, liquid fish oil is a great alternative.

A small percentage of people will suffer from fish burps with the EPA/DHA supplementation; if you're one of those individuals, I recommend you take all your fish oil with your last meal of the day. That way, if you have salmon belches, they'll be in your sleep! Another alternative is to just eat fatty fish every day, but that can get old very quickly!

Finally, be patient! If you read the finer details of all of the studies that I will outline, you'll realize that the majority of them were at least 6-8 weeks in duration (usually longer).

Your body needs time to make good use of these healthy raw materials, so count on a few months before you see noticeable results if you have one of the aforementioned conditions. For the rest of you who are healthy, you probably won't notice much, but I think that you'll be even healthier in the long run.

Ano
07-03-2007, 11:11 PM
Some of you might think I am lying, right?

No, I am not.

Here are the references :


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4. Colgan, M. Optimum Sports Nutrition. New York: Advanced Research Press, 1993.

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38. Mickleborough TD, Murray RL, Ionescu AA, Lindley MR. Fish oil supplementation reduces severity of exercise-induced bronchoconstriction in elite athletes. Am J Respir Crit Care Med. 2003 Nov 15;168(10):1181-9. Epub 2003 Aug 06.

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40. Shahar E, Folsom AR, Melnick SL, Tockman MS, Comstock GW, Gennaro V, Higgins MW, Sorlie PD, Ko WJ, Szklo M. Dietary n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids and smoking-related chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities Study Investigators. N Engl J Med. 1994 Jul 28;331(4):228-33.

41. Romieu I, Trenga C. Diet and obstructive lung diseases. Epidemiol Rev. 2001;23(2):268-87.

42. Tomer A, Kasey S, Connor WE, Clark S, Harker LA, Eckman JR. Reduction of pain episodes and prothrombotic activity in sickle cell disease by dietary n-3 fatty acids. Thromb Haemost. 2001 Jun;85(6):966-74.

43. Glew RH, Casados JK, Huang YS, Chuang LT, VanderJagt DJ. The fatty acid composition of the serum phospholipids of children with sickle cell disease in Nigeria. Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2002 Oct;67(4):217-22.

44. Deutch B. [Painful menstruation and low intake of n-3 fatty acids]. Ugeskr Laeger. 1996 Jul 15;158(29):4195-8. [Article in Danish]

45. Cellini M, Caramazza N, Mangiafico P, Possati GL, Caramazza R. Fatty acid use in glaucomatous optic neuropathy treatment. Acta Ophthalmol Scand Suppl. 1998; (227): 41-2.

46. Cunnane SC, Ho SY, Dore-Duffy P, Ells KR, Horrobin DF. Essential fatty acid and lipid profiles in plasma and erythrocytes in patients with multiple sclerosis. Am J Clin Nutr. 1989 Oct;50(4):801-6.

47. Gallai V, Sarchielli P, Trequattrini A, Franceschini M, Floridi A, Firenze C, Alberti A, Di Benedetto D, Stragliotto E. Cytokine secretion and eicosanoid production in the peripheral blood mononuclear cells of MS patients undergoing dietary supplementation with n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids. J Neuroimmunol. 1995 Feb;56(2):143-53.

48. Smuts CM, Huang M, Mundy D, Plasse T, Major S, Carlson SE. A randomized trial of docosahexaenoic acid supplementation during the third trimester of pregnancy. Obstet Gynecol. 2003 Mar;101(3):469-79.

Ano
07-03-2007, 11:11 PM
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50. Malcolm CA, McCulloch DL, Montgomery C, Shepherd A, Weaver LT. Maternal docosahexaenoic acid supplementation during pregnancy and visual evoked potential development in term infants: a double blind, prospective, randomised trial. Arch Dis Child Fetal Neonatal Ed. 2003 Sep;88(5):F383-90.

51. Uauy R, Hoffman DR, Mena P, Llanos A, Birch EE. Term infant studies of DHA and ARA supplementation on neurodevelopment: results of randomized controlled trials. J Pediatr. 2003 Oct;143(4 Suppl):S17-25.

52. Uauy R, Hoffman DR, Peirano P, Birch DG, Birch EE. Essential fatty acids in visual and brain development. Lipids. 2001 Sep;36(9):885-95.

53. Dunstan JA, Mori TA, Barden A, Beilin LJ, Taylor AL, Holt PG, Prescott SL. Fish oil supplementation in pregnancy modifies neonatal allergen-specific immune responses and clinical outcomes in infants at high risk of atopy: A randomized, controlled trial. J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2003 Dec;112(6):1178-84.

54. Williams MA, Zingheim RW, King IB, Zebelman AM. Omega-3 fatty acids in maternal erythrocytes and risk of preeclampsia. Epidemiology. 1995 May; 6(3): 232-7.

55. Mayser P, Mrowietz U, Arenberger P, Bartak P, Buchvald J, Christophers E, Jablonska S, Salmhofer W, Schill WB, Kramer HJ, Schlotzer E, Mayer K, Seeger W, Grimminger F. Omega-3 fatty acid-based lipid infusion in patients with chronic plaque psoriasis: results of a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled, multicenter trial. J Am Acad Dermatol. 1998 Apr;38(4):539-47.

56. Grimminger F, Mayser P, Papavassilis C, Thomas M, Schlotzer E, Heuer KU, Fuhrer D, Hinsch KD, Walmrath D, Schill WB, et al. A double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of n-3 fatty acid based lipid infusion in acute, extended guttate psoriasis. Rapid improvement of clinical manifestations and changes in neutrophil leukotriene profile. Clin Investig. 1993 Aug;71( 8 ) :634-43.

57. Rhodes LE, White SI. Dietary fish oil as a photoprotective agent in hydroa vacciniforme. Br J Dermatol. 1998 Jan;138(1):173-8.

58. Jain S, Gaiha M, Bhattacharjee J, Anuradha S. Effects of low-dose omega-3 fatty acid substitution in type-2 diabetes mellitus with special reference to oxidative stress--a prospective preliminary study. J Assoc Physicians India. 2002 Aug;50:1028-33.

59. Fernandez-Real JM, Broch M, Vendrell J, Ricart W. Insulin resistance, inflammation, and serum fatty acid composition. Diabetes Care. 2003 May;26(5):1362-8.

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63. Rivellese AA, Maffettone A, Iovine C, Di Marino L, Annuzzi G, Mancini M, Riccardi G. Long-term effects of fish oil on insulin resistance and plasma lipoproteins in NIDDM patients with hypertriglyceridemia. Diabetes Care. 1996 Nov;19(11):1207-13.

64. Woodman RJ, Mori TA, Burke V, Puddey IB, Watts GF, Beilin LJ. Effects of purified eicosapentaenoic and docosahexaenoic acids on glycemic control, blood pressure, and serum lipids in type 2 diabetic patients with treated hypertension. Am J Clin Nutr. 2002 Nov;76(5):1007-15.

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67. Peyron-Caso E, Taverna M, Guerre-Millo M, Veronese A, Pacher N, Slama G, Rizkalla SW. Dietary (n-3) polyunsaturated fatty acids up-regulate plasma leptin in insulin-resistant rats. J Nutr. 2002 Aug;132 ( 8 ) :2235-40.

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69. Maes M, Christophe A, Delanghe J, Altamura C, Neels H, Meltzer HY. Lowered omega3 polyunsaturated fatty acids in serum phospholipids and cholesteryl esters of depressed patients. Psychiatry Res. 1999 Mar 22;85(3):275-91.

70. Hibbeln JR, Salem N Jr. Dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids and depression: when cholesterol does not satisfy. Am J Clin Nutr. 1995 Jul;62(1):1-9.

71. Peet M. Eicosapentaenoic acid in the treatment of schizophrenia and depression: rationale and preliminary double-blind clinical trial results. Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2003 Dec;69(6):477-85.

72. Su KP, Huang SY, Chiu CC, Shen WW. Omega-3 fatty acids in major depressive disorder. A preliminary double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Eur Neuropsychopharmacol. 2003 Aug;13(4):267-71.

73. Zanarini MC, Frankenburg FR. omega-3 Fatty acid treatment of women with borderline personality disorder: a double-blind, placebo-controlled pilot study. Am J Psychiatry. 2003 Jan;160(1):167-9.

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76. Delarue J, Matzinger O, Binnert C, Schneiter P, Chiolero R, Tappy L. Fish oil prevents the adrenal activation elicited by mental stress in healthy men. Diabetes Metab. 2003 Jun;29(3):289-95.

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Zets147
07-03-2007, 11:13 PM
Yes sir, I shall go out and buy fish oil right away.
My Big bro just annihilated his fish oil inventory yesterday, I believe.

Thanks for the information.

dave333
07-04-2007, 07:27 AM
Do teens need take it? My dad uses fish oil and it doesn't smell all that great.

dcottrill
07-04-2007, 08:16 AM
Some of you might think I am lying, right?

I don't think anyone has ever suspected Ano of lying.:)

EricW
07-04-2007, 08:51 AM
I would recommend you eat flax seed as a source for these omega-3's instead of fish oil because it will give the same benefits except fish can be contaminated... flax seed wouldn't be

Chauvalito
07-04-2007, 09:16 AM
Thank you for the scientific references...so often many people fail to provide references on the board.

stormholloway
07-04-2007, 09:31 AM
One note about fish oil is that quality is absolutely crucial. Most store bought fish oils are very low in quality and consequently very ineffective.

I disagree about flax though.

I actually take krill oil.

http://www.mercola.com/products/krill_oil.htm

xtremerunnerars
07-04-2007, 09:56 AM
I would recommend you eat flax seed as a source for these omega-3's instead of fish oil because it will give the same benefits except fish can be contaminated... flax seed wouldn't be

Flax seed could just as easily be contaminated. Pesticides anyone?

Phil
07-04-2007, 10:23 AM
One note about fish oil is that quality is absolutely crucial. Most store bought fish oils are very low in quality and consequently very ineffective.

I disagree about flax though.

I actually take krill oil.

http://www.mercola.com/products/krill_oil.htm

Could be, regarding fish oil contamination, but I'd prefer see something a bit more objective about krill oil than an ad from the company selling it.

stormholloway
07-04-2007, 10:29 AM
Well I was kind of just posting where you can get it. I don't make royalties from the brand. I just recommend the product.

Phil
07-04-2007, 10:44 AM
Well I was kind of just posting where you can get it. I don't make royalties from the brand. I just recommend the product.

Oh, okay. I normally try to read up a bit on supplements before (usually) not purchasing them. But I used to buy them...when I was more naive.

chess9
07-04-2007, 11:08 AM
Udo's. Flax seed must be converted by the body, and the conversion rates are fairl low as I recall. I eat tons of flax seed (on my cereal and in protein shakes), but I also take fish oil caps.

I tried taking 5 grams of fish oil a day, but my blood pressure dropped way too low. I was getting dizzy standing up suddenly, so I'm down to 2 grams per day.

Good stuff.

-Robert

Sleepstream
07-04-2007, 11:13 AM
I disagree, but only because I believe people should eat more fish (like wild salmon) on a regular basis instead of taking fish oil capsules.

richw76
07-04-2007, 11:17 AM
Udo's. Flax seed must be converted by the body, and the conversion rates are fairl low as I recall. I eat tons of flax seed (on my cereal and in protein shakes), but I also take fish oil caps.

I tried taking 5 grams of fish oil a day, but my blood pressure dropped way too low. I was getting dizzy standing up suddenly, so I'm down to 2 grams per day.

Good stuff.

-Robert

What fish oil brand do you use. Are there any Brands that have a better reputation, as high quality, low contamination?

stormholloway
07-04-2007, 11:22 AM
Oh, okay. I normally try to read up a bit on supplements before (usually) not purchasing them. But I used to buy them...when I was more naive.

So you don't use supplements then. You just came by to tell users that they're naive?

If our society encouraged better nutrition it would be easier to obtain quality nutrients, but instead I find it easier to take a few supplements.

chess9
07-04-2007, 12:32 PM
What fish oil brand do you use. Are there any Brands that have a better reputation, as high quality, low contamination?

I buy Udo's. You can find it online. It's recommended by Will Brink, which is good enough for me.

-Robert

Ano
07-04-2007, 04:35 PM
Do teens need take it? My dad uses fish oil and it doesn't smell all that great.

Ask you dad to buy Carlson fish oil (not capsules). It has lemon taste.

Take 1 teaspoon with breakfast.

Oh, yes, teens need to it.

xtremerunnerars
07-04-2007, 05:14 PM
So...are we saying udo's or carlson is the best?

Ano
07-04-2007, 06:12 PM
So...are we saying udo's or carlson is the best?

I would say, take both. ;)

Take 2 teaspoon of carlson oil, and 1 tablespoon of Udo's Oil a day.

Stuyten
07-04-2007, 06:17 PM
Another alternative is to just eat fatty fish every day, but that can get old very quickly!


Can you give examples of fatty fish?

Ano
07-04-2007, 08:08 PM
Can you give examples of fatty fish?

herring, mackerel, salmon, anchovy, trout.

Ano
07-05-2007, 03:30 AM
Here's another interesting info about fish oil.

Charles Poliquin (one of the most succesfull strength coaches in the world, he has trained more than 400 Olympic athletes) in an interview said :

" I was first introduced to fish oil twelve years ago by my friend Mauro DiPasquale MD. I was over at his house and he had fish oil on the counter. I asked him what he used it for and he said, "Charles, this is the most important supplement ever."

He told me to go to Medline and punch in any disease known to man and the words "fish oil" beside it. He challenged me to find a study that didn't show how fish oil could benefit in the treatment of any disease. I gave up after 86 studies!

There was a study published four years ago that showed that if the US government issued three grams of fish oil per day to American citizens, then the amount of cancer and heart disease would go down by 50% within one year.

My athletes would often recognize each other when sitting around a table because those I'd be training would break out the fish oil during the meal. That's how I got the nickname "the fish oil guy" among athletes. But that's also how I get people so lean so fast.

Anyone who wants to put on muscle and lose fat should be on 30-45 grams of fish oil per day. That's just three tablespoons of fish oil. It would be a pain in the *** with capsules though because that's around 45 capsules per day, but it's easy with a straight oil."

EDIT : I personally do not recommend any of you to take 30-45 fish oil capsules/day. This post is for informational purposes only.

EricW
07-05-2007, 08:35 AM
Ano, due to your interest in nutrition, I suggest you read everything on this site:

www.drmcdougall.com: You can also go to the forums, seeing posts from tons of people who follow his advice/teachings

I prefer flax seed over fish oil, because I don't beleive fish is a health food. One of the reaosns is the high level of contamination.

Phil
07-05-2007, 09:26 AM
So you don't use supplements then. You just came by to tell users that they're naive?

If our society encouraged better nutrition it would be easier to obtain quality nutrients, but instead I find it easier to take a few supplements.

I don't use them now, but I've used, probably, scores of supplements over the years and spent $1,000's. Finally, based on my reading, experience with them and the lack of any discernable result other than a lightened wallet, came to the conclusion that the supplement/homeopathic/health food industry is one of the biggest scams going in America today. I'm surprised such a skeptic as yourself would fall for it, but the promise of a pill or powder replacing or supplumenting hard work or real food is too much for anyone to pass up. It's all snake oil. The industry preys on people's insecurity, vulnerability and basic laziness. So of course it's easier to take suppluments and feel you are getting something, but it's not society's responsibility to encourage good nutrition. It's up to the individual...it's your body...why would you trust what "society" tells you about this?

Craig Sheppard
07-05-2007, 09:28 AM
The typical fish oil capsule you'll encounter is 1000 mg fish oil; we, however, are more concerned with the EPA and DHA content of that 1000 mg. In most cases, you'll find 180 mg EPA and 120 mg DHA per capsule.

A good rule of thumb (especially based on the results of the clinical trials) is to consume 3-6 g combined EPA and DHA per day; at this capsule size, you'd need 10-20 capsules per day. For this reason, liquid fish oil is a great alternative.


WOW. I've taken Omega-3/Fish Oil capsules daily for at least a year now, but I've only been getting about 360 mg EPA and 240 DHA (2 capsules). Would you say this really is of no benefit then?

So the trials have all been based on 3-6g, not the normal capsules? Any info on the efficacy of OTC capsules? It sounds like a huge serving... even much more than you'd see in a good salmon portion. (Maybe I'm wrong about that)

ShooterMcMarco
07-05-2007, 09:38 AM
One note about fish oil is that quality is absolutely crucial. Most store bought fish oils are very low in quality and consequently very ineffective.

I disagree about flax though.

I actually take krill oil.

http://www.mercola.com/products/krill_oil.htm

Do you know of any good quality fish oil brands? I heard 7 seas is one of the best.

todd03blown
07-05-2007, 09:50 AM
interesting post and great information

El Diablo
07-05-2007, 12:00 PM
Fish oil may merely be the supplement industry's response to the decline of vitamin E, which was the miracle supplement of the prior decade. Now we have studies published in good refereed journals demonstrating DECREASED survival rates in the vitamin E subjects in controlled studies, and concern that the anticoagulant effects of vitamin E may be hazardous in a world of mini-dose aspirin, Plavix, and coumadin takers.
So along comes fish oil, accompanied by the usual hype (as in hyperbole). Statements like the one above about a "study" purporting to demonstrate that fish oil rations given to the people would reduce cancer and heart disease by 50% within a year exemplify the sort of absurd claims native to the supplement industry. Absurd because a "study" can't demonstrate something so wildly speculative without making ludicrous assumptions. I was raised on and still take supplements, including fish oil, but I've also read some of the studies referenced above and found a number of them poorly done and inconclusive. I ran a clinical psychopharmacology research unit some years ago and learned quickly that the medical literature is replete with many studies to support BOTH sides of any question you can pose.

El Diablo
07-05-2007, 12:08 PM
Addendum -- the Emory (University) Healthcare website, and numerous others, references a large number of studies demonstrating no benefit from fish oil on some of the conditions listed above.

stormholloway
07-05-2007, 12:11 PM
I don't use them now, but I've used, probably, scores of supplements over the years and spent $1,000's. Finally, based on my reading, experience with them and the lack of any discernable result other than a lightened wallet, came to the conclusion that the supplement/homeopathic/health food industry is one of the biggest scams going in America today. I'm surprised such a skeptic as yourself would fall for it, but the promise of a pill or powder replacing or supplumenting hard work or real food is too much for anyone to pass up. It's all snake oil. The industry preys on people's insecurity, vulnerability and basic laziness. So of course it's easier to take suppluments and feel you are getting something, but it's not society's responsibility to encourage good nutrition. It's up to the individual...it's your body...why would you trust what "society" tells you about this?

I agree with you for the most part, but don't feel it's prudent to generalize. Not all supplements are created equal. The bottom line is that the supplement is either good for the body or not. I try to aim for those that are good.

tricky
07-05-2007, 12:36 PM
A good rule of thumb (especially based on the results of the clinical trials) is to consume 3-6 g combined EPA and DHA per day; at this capsule size, you'd need 10-20 capsules per day. For this reason, liquid fish oil is a great alternative.

Mmm, those clinical studies though were done specifically in studies related to lowering cholesterol and possibly insulin resistance. For normal daily, the recommended is actually about half that. That said, there should be no problems going into the 3-6g range, provided you don't have problems with blood thinning, and it may even advisable if you're actively training.

Poliquin's recommendations always raise my eye, but apparently some others are also corroborating that. I've done high dosages a few times, and well when you do that, your brain kicks up another level of concentration (probably due to all the DHA), and your sleep needs go way way down. It's an expensive alternative to coffee, but it works.

So the trials have all been based on 3-6g, not the normal capsules? Any info on the efficacy of OTC capsules? It sounds like a huge serving... even much more than you'd see in a good salmon portion. (Maybe I'm wrong about that)

The most important thing is to make sure there's no cholesterol or vitamin A in your fish oil. Lack of both means that the fish oil has gone through at least molecular distillation, so that all of the contaminants are gone, and the concentration of EPA/DHA is higher. Also, there's less long chain fatty acids, so it's easier on the stomach.

I like doing the fish oil + Udo thing. But, the third component is to supplement with additional GLA (evening primrose oil), especially if you're older. EPA improves the PGE1+PGE3 to PGE2 ratio, but it also lowers overall prostaglandin count. GLA bumps it back up, while the EPA still keeps PGE2 really low. GLA supplementation varies individual to individual; usually you use your skin as an indicator if you're getting the right amount. On a normal day, it should feel soft. If it's unusually dry or splotchy, you want more GLA. If it's oily, you want less. A little bit goes a long way.

Finally, the more polyunsaturates you take, the more antioxidants from food sources you want to take.

lethalfang
07-05-2007, 12:57 PM
A certain fish oil from cold water fish, omega-3, is correlated with a decrease of cardiovascular diseases. It thins the blood, thus heart attacks, etc. are less likely. If I remember correctly, the correlation was first noticed in Denmark. I'm not sure if there is absolute proof for this, but there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that Omega-3 is in fact beneficial.
It's true that many fish itself may contain an elevated amount of mercury, a toxin, because companies dump crap into our water. So eating salmon everyday MAY increase risks.

Ano
07-05-2007, 04:37 PM
WOW. I've taken Omega-3/Fish Oil capsules daily for at least a year now, but I've only been getting about 360 mg EPA and 240 DHA (2 capsules). Would you say this really is of no benefit then?
So the trials have all been based on 3-6g, not the normal capsules? Any info on the efficacy of OTC capsules? It sounds like a huge serving... even much more than you'd see in a good salmon portion. (Maybe I'm wrong about that)

I wouldn't say this really is of no benefit. I would say, taking 10 capsules or 2 teaspoon will give you more benefit.

100 grams of salmon contains 1.2 - 1.4 grams (the total amount of EPA plus DHA). Your goal is to get about 3 grams (the total amound of EPA plus DHA) a day, and at the same time reducing your intake of Omega-6 (vegetable oils such as corn oil, safflower oil, sunflower seed oil, cottonseed oil, soyben oil, peanut oil, sesame oil, grapeseed oil, borage oil)

If you are really interested to learn more about this topic (Omega-3), I strongly recommend a book called THE OMEGA DIET by Artemis Simopoulos, MD. The book is easy to read.

If you want to really enhance your knowledge about fats, read FATS THAT HEAL, FATS THAT KILL by Udo Erasmus PhD. This book is NOT easy to read, because it contains heavy chemistry lesson.

EDIT : There are some people who should consult their doctors before taking more than one gram of omega-3 per day :

1. people with asthma should take them only under close supervision by their doctor. While these nutrients have been highly beneficial for some asthmatics, they have increased bronchial sensitivity in others.

2. People with diabetes sould take no more than 3 grams per day becauise higher amount might disrupt glucose regulation

3. People with clotting disorders or who are taking very potent blood thinners should not take omega-3 unless precribed by a physician.

Remember, consult your doctor first.

Kobble
07-05-2007, 04:57 PM
Supplements for the most part are way overrated, or useless.

Green tea- Yes, it works, guaranteed, IN VITRO. How much you really absorb to get an effective does in your system is another story.

Now, fish oil is very interesting to me. Plenty of evidence shows that people defficient are more likely to develop certain disorders, especially mental disorders(A.D.D.) in children. From what I have read fish oil is a good idea. I would have to re-read some serious data to be able to talk the talk when it comes to the facts. I am not, however, so sure I buy into the purity(my fish oil is greater than yours) thing. Most stuff I have come across concerning purity is related to a company somehow. Most articles will have two characteristics, push a company, and recommended(usually high) dose. Basically, to get you to use a hefty amount of one product. Creatine has made this practice famous. A while ago I was taking a fish oil made by Twinlab, and they cited a study which suggests a dose of only one tablespoon a day is necessary for a benefit of greater chance of cardiovascular health. I am more likely to believe that than some guy pushing it for fat loss, muscle gain, and penis size. Just be sensible, and look for serious journals who don't spin results.

Ano
07-05-2007, 05:04 PM
Ano, due to your interest in nutrition, I suggest you read everything on this site:

www.drmcdougall.com: You can also go to the forums, seeing posts from tons of people who follow his advice/teachings

I prefer flax seed over fish oil, because I don't beleive fish is a health food. One of the reaosns is the high level of contamination.

Eric, I will take a look. Thanks for the suggestion.

tricky
07-05-2007, 05:11 PM
O3 intake in general makes sense to me, because clearly most of our grain-based meat diet just doesn't offer it. Unless you take in some kind of O3, be it fish or a seed oil, you just can't get a decent O3:O6 ratio that matches what our ancestors had. That can't be good.

I am not, however, so sure I buy into the purity(my fish oil is greater than yours) thing. Most stuff I have come across concerning purity is related to a company somehow.Usually fish oil comes in 3 different grades. The regular stuff, molecular distilled, and pharmaceutical grade. The latter two is desirable because, then, you know you have none of the vitamin A, mercury and other pollutants in the stuff. And you can be reasonably sure the stuff hasn't oxidized yet. The cost increase from regular to molecular distilled isn't that high. From molecular distilled to pharma grade, there you see the jump.

You can pretty much tell the difference between the molecular distilled and pharma grade by the EPA/DHA levels per gram. Regardless of what brand or company you buy, the quantities work about the same. I've found that I can't even take the molecular distilled without significant gastric distress.

Eric, I will take a look. Thanks for the suggestion.

I've read some of McDougall's and Ornish's books from the early 90s. He promotes a VLF diet centered around on complex carbohydrates (80% or so.) As I recall, he advocates a vegetarian diet and is especially critical about the usage of dairy.

Ano
07-05-2007, 05:27 PM
Finally, the more polyunsaturates you take, the more antioxidants from food sources you want to take.

I COMPLETELY agree with this statement. (read: eat more fruits and veggies).

Ano
07-05-2007, 08:29 PM
Just be sensible, and look for serious journals who don't spin results.

I guess you consider The Lancet and The New England Journal of Medicine to be serious journals, right ?

GuyClinch
07-05-2007, 09:24 PM
Fish oil is good for you - but I prefer flax and sesamin (which is made from sesame oil). However I can't afford to blow money on any of it right now. The problem I have with fish oil...

1) Fish burps.
2) Lead

Pete

Ano
07-05-2007, 11:04 PM
Fish oil is good for you - but I prefer flax and sesamin (which is made from sesame oil). However I can't afford to blow money on any of it right now. The problem I have with fish oil...

1) Fish burps.
2) Lead

Pete


Sesame Oil is a good source of Omega-6.

The problem with our modern diet is that it contains far more omega-6 than omega-3. The ratio in the typical American diet has been estimated to be as high as 20 to 1.

Adding sesame oil will make the problem get worse. It's much better to add omega-3 and at the same time reduce the omega-6.

GRANITECHIEF
07-09-2007, 11:45 AM
^^True, most people don't understand the difference between the 03 and 06 and think that flax provides plenty of 03, which is not the case.

I'm a huge proponent of DHA / 03's and have a nice little chunk of MATK stock, which has been doing well lately. Martek Bio makes the DHA/03's from the same place that the fishies get it: Algae. Hence no potential for mercury, PCB or other contaminants.

If you don't want to throw down the cash for Neuromins:

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=1218&at=0

Then this is a good one:

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=5328&at=0

Also, this one's on super special:

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=7908&at=0

Healthy hunting everyone!!

scotus
07-09-2007, 12:13 PM
Has there been any study done on the effect of enteric coating used for fish oil? It is designed to prevent fishy burps by not allowing the gel to dissolve until it reaches the lower intestines.

My question is this: Different substances need different enzymes for optimum absorption into the body. If the coating keeps the oil from reacting with any enzymes secreted by organs above the lower intestines, can we get the most out of the fish oil?

Dunlop300
07-09-2007, 12:18 PM
Subject: FW: Subject: WD40 - interesting uses

Subject: WD40

I had a neighbor who had bought a new pickup. I got up very early one Sunday
morning and saw that someone had spray painted red all around the sides of
this beige truck (for some unknown reason). I went over, woke him up and told
him the bad news. He was very upset and was trying to figure out what to do
probably nothing until Monday morning, since nothing was open. Another
neighbor came out and told him to get his WD-40 and clean it off. It removed
the unwanted paint beautifully and did not harm his paint job that was on the
truck. I'm impressed! WD-40.... who knew?

Water Displacement #40. The product began from a search for a rust
preventative solvent and degreaser to protect missile parts. WD-40 was created
in 1953 by three technicians at the San Diego Rocket Chemical Company. Its
name comes from the project that was to find a "water displacement" compound.
They were successful with the fortieth formulation, thus WD-40. The Corvair
Company bought it in bulk to protect their atlas missile parts.

Ken East (one of the original founders) says there is nothing in WD-40 that
would hurt you.

When you read the "shower door" part, try it. It's the first thing that has
ever cleaned that spotty shower door. If yours is plastic, it works just as
well as glass. It's a miracle! Then try it on your stove top... Voila! It's
now shinier than it's ever been. You'll be amazed.

Here are some of the uses:
1) Protects silver from tarnishing.
2) Removes road tar and grime from cars.
3) Cleans and lubricates guitar strings.
4) Gives floors that 'just-waxed' sheen without making it slippery.
5) Keeps flies off cows.
6) Restores and cleans chalkboards.
7) Removes lipstick stains.
8) Loosens stubborn zippers.
9) Untangles jewelry chains.
10) Removes stains from stainless steel sinks.
11) Removes dirt and grime from the barbecue grill.
12) Keeps ceramic/terra cotta garden pots from oxidizing.
13) Removes tomato stains from clothing.
14) Keeps glass shower doors free of water spots.
15) Camouflages scratches in ceramic and marble floors.
16) Keeps scissors working smoothly.
17) Lubricates noisy door hinges on vehicles and doors in homes
18) It removes black scuff marks from the kitchen floor! Use WD-40 for those
nasty tar and scuff marks on flooring. It doesn't seem to harm the finish and
you won't have to scrub nearly as hard to get them off. Just remember to open
some windows if you have a lot of marks.
19) Bug guts will eat away the finish on your car if not removed quickly! Use
WD-40!
20) Gives a children's play gym slide a shine for a super fast slide.
21) Lubricates gear shift and mower deck lever for ease of handling on riding
mowers.
22) Rids kids rocking chairs and swings of squeaky noises.
23) Lubricates tracks in sticking home windows and makes them easier to open.
24) Spraying an umbrella stem makes it easier to open and close.
25) Restores and cleans padded leather dashboards in vehicles, as well as
vinyl bumpers.
26) Restores and cleans roof racks on vehicles.
27) Lubricates and stops squeaks in electric fans.
28) Lubricates wheel sprockets on tricycles, wagons, and bicycles for easy
handling.
29) Lubricates fan belts on washers and dryers and keeps them running smoothly
30) Keeps rust from forming on saws and saw blades, and other tools.
31) Removes splattered grease on stove.
32) Keeps bathroom mirror from fogging.
33) Lubricates prosthetic limbs.
34) Keeps pigeons off the balcony (they hate the smell).
35) Removes all traces of duct tape.
36) Folks even spray it on their arms, hands, and knees to relieve arthritis pain.
37) Florida's favorite use is: "cleans and removes love bugs from grills and
bumpers."
38) The favorite use in the state of New York WD-40 protects the Statue of
Liberty from the elements.
39) WD-40 attracts fish. Spray a LITTLE on live bait or lures and you will be
catching the big one in no time. Also, it's a lot cheaper than the chemical
attractants that are made for just that purpose. Keep in mind though, using
some chemical laced baits or lures for fishing are not allowed in some states.
40) Use it for fire ant bites . It takes the sting away immediately and stops
the itch.
41) WD-40 is great for removing crayon from walls. Spray on the mark and wipe
with a clean rag.
42) Also, if you've discovered that your teenage daughter has washed and dried
a tube of lipstick with a load of laundry, saturate the lipstick spots with
WD-40 and re-wash. Presto! Lipstick is gone!
43) If you sprayed WD-40 on the distributor cap, it would displace the
moisture and allow the car to start.

P.S. AND GUESS WHAT!
The basic ingredient OF WD-40 is FISH OIL!.

chess9
07-09-2007, 01:02 PM
Dunlop300:

That is brilliant! But, you may have too much time on your hands, like me, who read it all!
:)

-Robert

Ano
07-09-2007, 04:39 PM
^^True, most people don't understand the difference between the 03 and 06 and think that flax provides plenty of 03, which is not the case.

Sorry, flax seed oil is a very good source of Omega-3 (Alpha Linolenic Acid).

There are 3 types of Omega-3 family: Alpha Linolenic Acid (LNA), Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) and Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA).

Your body converts LNA into EPA, and then converts EPA into DHA.

When LNA interact with certain enzymes, it go through 2 transformations : it becomes desaturated by losing hydrogen and increasing the number of double bonds, and it become longer.

The LNA conversion rate into LNA and DHA is about 10 %.

LNA : 18 carbon atoms, 3 double bonds
EPA : 20 carbon atoms, 5 double bonds
DHA : 22 carbon atoms, 6 double bonds

tricky
07-09-2007, 05:05 PM
The LNA conversion rate into LNA and DHA is about 10 %.

And in fact, I've heard it's more like between 5-10% Also not sure what happens if you actually metabolize the fats as energy when you ingest it.

Ano
07-09-2007, 05:16 PM
And in fact, I've heard it's more like between 5-10% Also not sure what happens if you actually metabolize the fats as energy when you ingest it.

Yup, you're right.

The LNA conversion into EPA is about 5-10 %, and about 2-5 % into DHA.

Lifestyle factors can also negatively influence these conversions. There is also evidence to suggest that females are more efficient at converting linolenic acid than men; this is likely due to increased demands for EPA and DHA during pregnancy and lactation.

References :

1. Davis BC, Kris-Etherton PM. Achieving optimal essential fatty acid status in vegetarians: current knowledge and practical implications. Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Sep;78(3 Suppl):640S-646S.

2. Burdge GC, Wootton SA. Conversion of alpha-linolenic acid to eicosapentaenoic, and docosahexaenoic acids in young women. Br J Nutr. 2002 Oct;88(4):411-20.

GRANITECHIEF
07-10-2007, 10:37 AM
Sorry, flax seed oil is a very good source of Omega-3 (Alpha Linolenic Acid).

If DHA is your target, which it should be as it is the EFA that does most of the heavy lifting in terms of health benefits, then does a 2-5% conversion rate provide "plenty"? How many bowls of flax seed cereal or other flax supplemented food would you need to get 400mg of DHA?

The answer is too many! The answer is skip the flax and go straight to the algae derived DHA.

LuckyR
07-11-2007, 12:41 PM
This thread reminds me of a miracle cure from many years ago with an excellent track record for improving one's health: Snake Oil...

GRANITECHIEF
07-12-2007, 09:01 AM
Yes Snake oil is awesome, but it doesn't comprise the majority of the grey matter in your brain, like DHA does, among other important parts.

Thud and blunder
07-14-2007, 05:55 AM
Usually fish oil comes in 3 different grades. The regular stuff, molecular distilled, and pharmaceutical grade. The latter two is desirable because, then, you know you have none of the vitamin A, mercury and other pollutants in the stuff. And you can be reasonably sure the stuff hasn't oxidized yet. The cost increase from regular to molecular distilled isn't that high. From molecular distilled to pharma grade, there you see the jump.

You can pretty much tell the difference between the molecular distilled and pharma grade by the EPA/DHA levels per gram. Regardless of what brand or company you buy, the quantities work about the same. I've found that I can't even take the molecular distilled without significant gastric distress.


Tricky, please could you clarify this issue. How can I tell pharma grade by looking at the levels / ratios?

Punisha
07-14-2007, 06:25 AM
My athletes would often recognize each other when sitting around a table because those I'd be training would break out the fish oil during the meal. That's how I got the nickname "the fish oil guy" among athletes. But that's also how I get people so lean so fast.

Anyone who wants to put on muscle and lose fat should be on 30-45 grams of fish oil per day. That's just three tablespoons of fish oil. It would be a pain in the *** with capsules though because that's around 45 capsules per day, but it's easy with a straight oil.

what would the O3 have to do with weight loss. I can see the benefits everywhere else but this i dont understandand.

chess9
07-15-2007, 10:59 AM
what would the O3 have to do with weight loss. I can see the benefits everywhere else but this i dont understandand.

It enhances fat metabolism.

-Robert

Ano
07-15-2007, 05:00 PM
It enhances fat metabolism.

-Robert


Yes.

Omega-3 fatty acids are anti lipogenic (they block fat storage), anti catabolic, anti inflammatory, and they increase beta-oxidation (fat burning), improve insulin sensitivity, increase thermogenesis and have a whole lot more positive effects on fat loss that I don't have the time or need, to cover in this post.

Omega-3 control gene transcription. Omega-3 play essential roles in the maintenance of energy balance and function as fuel partitioners in that they direct glucose toward glycogen storage, and direct fatty acids away from triglyceride synthesis and assimilation and toward fatty acid oxidation.

Omega-3 appear to have a unique ability to enhance thermogenesis and thereby reduce the efficiency of body fat deposition.

Omega-3 exert their effects on lipid metabolism and thermogenesis by up-regulating the transcription of the mitochondrial uncoupling protein-3 (UCP3), and inducing genes encoding proteins involved in fatty acid oxidation (e.g. carnitine palmitoyltransferase and acyl-CoA oxidase) while simultaneously down-regulating the transcription of genes encoding proteins involved in lipid synthesis (e.g. fatty acid synthase).

Punisha
07-16-2007, 02:31 AM
Yes.

Omega-3 fatty acids are anti lipogenic (they block fat storage), anti catabolic, anti inflammatory, and they increase beta-oxidation (fat burning), improve insulin sensitivity, increase thermogenesis and have a whole lot more positive effects on fat loss that I don't have the time or need, to cover in this post.

Omega-3 control gene transcription. Omega-3 play essential roles in the maintenance of energy balance and function as fuel partitioners in that they direct glucose toward glycogen storage, and direct fatty acids away from triglyceride synthesis and assimilation and toward fatty acid oxidation.

Omega-3 appear to have a unique ability to enhance thermogenesis and thereby reduce the efficiency of body fat deposition.

Omega-3 exert their effects on lipid metabolism and thermogenesis by up-regulating the transcription of the mitochondrial uncoupling protein-3 (UCP3), and inducing genes encoding proteins involved in fatty acid oxidation (e.g. carnitine palmitoyltransferase and acyl-CoA oxidase) while simultaneously down-regulating the transcription of genes encoding proteins involved in lipid synthesis (e.g. fatty acid synthase).


wow omega 3 does it all

El Diablo
07-16-2007, 08:13 AM
Omega-3 "control" "enhance" "up-regulate" and "down-regulate." My familiarity with physiology and medicine tells me a fatty acid does none of those things independently but may mediate control from another locus. These oversimplifications are drivel. Also, how can something be "anti catabolic" (catabolism is the breakdown of complex biologic compounds into simpler compounds) at the same time that they increase "fat burning" and reduce "body fat deposition (which would be anti-anabolic)?

Ano
07-16-2007, 07:11 PM
Omega-3 "control" "enhance" "up-regulate" and "down-regulate." My familiarity with physiology and medicine tells me a fatty acid does none of those things independently but may mediate control from another locus. These oversimplifications are drivel. Also, how can something be "anti catabolic" (catabolism is the breakdown of complex biologic compounds into simpler compounds) at the same time that they increase "fat burning" and reduce "body fat deposition (which would be anti-anabolic)?

Doc, I highly endorse and recommend a book called FATS THAT HEAL, FATS THAT KILL by Dr. Udo Erasmus.

There's some heavy chemistry in the book, but I'm sure it's not a problem for you.

jmsx521
07-16-2007, 07:26 PM
For such products I get good prices and good brands from vitacost.com

chess9
07-16-2007, 07:28 PM
As I recall, cells are either in an anabolic or catabolic state and that state is hormone regulated. So, if a cell switches from one state to the other it must be switched by a hormone or other process. Some fats are better at reducing the number of cells in a catabolic state and enhancing fat burning through anabolism. I.e., some fats are hormone friendly, to the extent they help hormones keep OFF the catabolic switches. Or, something like that. LOL. I tried to read all of Udo's book, but I've only had 4 college chem courses and 40 years ago at that.

I gave away my copy of his book, but I'll look for a some snippets online for us, doc. You've raised my interest in this....


-Robert

chess9
07-16-2007, 07:37 PM
Here's something from Udo's site that gives a hint about the hormone issues:

"From the n-3 derivative called EPA, the body makes hormone-like series 3 eicosanoids, and from two n-6 derivatives called DGLA and AA, the body makes hormone-like series 1 and series 2 eicosanoids, respectively. Eicosanoids regulate many functions in all tissues on a moment-to-moment basis, from conception until death. A more comprehensive look at EFAs, derivatives, and eicosanoids is found on page 20 of Fats That Heal Fats That Kill."

-Robert

SoBad
07-16-2007, 07:38 PM
Do you put the fish oil on before or after sunscreen? And do you need to drink any extra water for that? Thanks.

pinetree47
07-17-2007, 04:51 PM
Regardless of what journal, book, or "expert" my say or report, the effect of supplements is specific for each individual.
What I miss (maybe it is here somewhere)in this thread is any discussion of the importance of monitoring one's health through regular physicals, etc. I have been having annual physicals since my early 20's. During that time it has been suggested that I take certain supplements on a trial basis. Whenever I have done this, the effects have been monitored (blood chemistry, etc.) 2X a year to determine any benefit / side effects.
If anyone makes claims to the benefits of a supplement, the only accurate way to determine if it has a + effect or just a placebo, is regular visits to the lab.

For me, fish oil has had a + effect on my lipid profile. So, my advice is, maybe not every year until later in life, but get a regular physical, so you can monitor your own individual health over time. Also, you don't end up with any
serious conditions before it is too late to effectively treat.

In summary-good diet, exercise, etc. is only part of the equation. You are only as in shape, or healthy as your test results!

Ano
07-17-2007, 04:51 PM
Omega-3 "control" "enhance" "up-regulate" and "down-regulate." My familiarity with physiology and medicine tells me a fatty acid does none of those things independently but may mediate control from another locus. These oversimplifications are drivel. Also, how can something be "anti catabolic" (catabolism is the breakdown of complex biologic compounds into simpler compounds) at the same time that they increase "fat burning" and reduce "body fat deposition (which would be anti-anabolic)?


The exact mechanism in which fish oil potentates fat loss isn't completely understood. There seems to be both exercise and non-exercise pathways. Here are some potential ways that fish oil can help boost fat burning:

• DHA has been shown to prevent the conversion of pre-adipocytes to adipocytes and mediate pre-adipocyte death (kill 'em before they become immortal fat cells). (1)

• Fish oil has the ability to increase the clearance of chylomicrons and fats following a meal. This potentially can have a positive effect on substrate utilization. (2)

• Fish oil can "artificially" decrease heart rate thus increasing the level of exertion needed to reach desired intensity.

• Fish oil upregulates mitochondrial machinery and increases oxidation of fats within fat cells. (3,4)

References:
1. Kim HK, Della-Fera M, Lin J, Baile CA. Docosahexaenoic acid inhibits adipocyte differentiation and induces apoptosis in 3T3-L1 preadipocytes. The Journal of nutrition2006; 136: 2965-2969.

2. Smith BK, Sun GY, Donahue OM, Thomas TR. Exercise plus n-3 fatty acids: additive effect on postprandial lipemia. Metabolism 2004; 53: 1365-1371.

3. Flachs P, Horakova O, Brauner P, Rossmeisl M, Pecina P, Franssen-van Hal N, et al. Polyunsaturated fatty acids of marine origin upregulate mitochondrial biogenesis and induce beta-oxidation in white fat. Diabetologia 2005; 48: 2365-2375.

4. Guo W, Xie W, Lei T, Hamilton JA. Eicosapentaenoic acid, but not oleic acid, stimulates beta-oxidation in adipocytes. Lipids 2005; 40: 815-821.

Ano
07-17-2007, 05:36 PM
A certain fish oil from cold water fish, omega-3, is correlated with a decrease of cardiovascular diseases. It thins the blood, thus heart attacks, etc. are less likely. If I remember correctly, the correlation was first noticed in Denmark. I'm not sure if there is absolute proof for this, but there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that Omega-3 is in fact beneficial.

It's true that many fish itself may contain an elevated amount of mercury, a toxin, because companies dump crap into our water. So eating salmon everyday MAY increase risks.

According to Loren Cordain, PhD (author of THE PALEO DIET), regular fish consumption for healthy people, poses virtually no risk to brain or nervous system function.

It’s safe even for pregnant women and very young children, concludes a comprehensive study conducted by Dr. Philip Davidson and colleagues at the University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry in New York.

Their findings, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, come from a nine-year study conducted in the Republic of the Seychelles, an island nation in the Indian Ocean, where most people eat fish nearly dozen times a week and have mercury levels about ten times higher than those of most Americans.

In fact, no harmful effects were seen in the nervous systems and behavior of children at mercury levels up to twenty times the average American level.

Reference :

Davidson PW, Myers GJ, Cox C, Axtell C, Shamlaye C, Sloane-Reeves J. Effects of prenatal and postnata methylmercury exposure from fish consumption on neurodevelopment: outcomes at 66 months of age in the Seychelles Chilc Development Study. Journal of the Americal Medical Association 1998; 280: 701-707

10sfreak
07-18-2007, 07:56 PM
Omega-3 "control" "enhance" "up-regulate" and "down-regulate." My familiarity with physiology and medicine tells me a fatty acid does none of those things independently but may mediate control from another locus. These oversimplifications are drivel. Also, how can something be "anti catabolic" (catabolism is the breakdown of complex biologic compounds into simpler compounds) at the same time that they increase "fat burning" and reduce "body fat deposition (which would be anti-anabolic)?
El Diablo, I believe that in this particular instance, the term "anti-catabolic" refers to fish-oil's alleged ability to stop/reduce the breakdown of muscle tissue

chess9
07-19-2007, 02:06 AM
This month's Muscular Development has an extensive section on the benefits of fish oil, with cites. Good stuff.

Consumer reports tested the top 16 major brands of fish oil and found no contamination. They didn't test 16 fish. ;)
(all of whom play at my club)

Fish oil lowers my blood pressure, and it has reduced my LDL cholesterol, which was up to 124 at one point. (My HDL is consistently around 65-70.)

I take my fish oil with some probiotics to help with my joints. I'm still moving, so maybe it works? :)

-Robert

richw76
07-19-2007, 03:25 AM
What do you guys think the 0.0% thc - hemp protein powders, oils,Bread compare. I was reading some and they seem to be a one slice meal with fatty acid, protein, fiber. Or maybe the hemp bread along with Fish oil?

chess9
07-19-2007, 03:42 AM
richw:

Do you have a link or brand name to give us a clue what you are asking about?

-Robert

richw76
07-19-2007, 10:42 AM
richw:

Do you have a link or brand name to give us a clue what you are asking about?

-Robert

http://www.frenchmeadow.com/NutToHemp.html

http://www.globalhempstore.com/hemp-food/

richw76
07-19-2007, 10:46 AM
http://www.frenchmeadow.com/NutToHemp.html

http://www.globalhempstore.com/hemp-food/

http://www.frenchmeadow.com/low-carb_functional_breads.htm

http://www.frenchmeadow.com/images/hemp.jpg

chess9
07-19-2007, 11:23 AM
richw:

Man, that is a very good find. I'd love some of that toasted with a little peanut butter. YUMMY!

Thanks for the links!!

That's eating the way we should.

-Robert

richw76
07-19-2007, 11:52 AM
Yeah Update: I went to my Local Whole foods Market and bought some today, and tried it. I liked it(had it with red pepper hummus-Yum!), and it was comparable in price to the other organic loafs of bread.

From the stats how does it compare to to fish oil for the "good fats"?

I'll probably just end up doing both. I ate one slice with hummus and a nectarine around noon, and I'm still not hungry. This stuff is very filling and only about 90 cal a slice.

keithchircop
07-24-2007, 02:35 PM
I've been taking 2 teaspoons of "pure cod liver oil" with orange juice every day for the last year. However it says that it's got Vitamin A and other stuff in it. How pure is it?

netman
07-25-2007, 05:03 PM
Here in the U.S. you can buy what is essentially pharmaceutical grade fish oil at Costco. Stuff is dirt cheap. I take 5-8 capsules a day.

-k-

chess9
07-25-2007, 05:13 PM
Here in the U.S. you can buy what is essentially pharmaceutical grade fish oil at Costco. Stuff is dirt cheap. I take 5-8 capsules a day.

-k-

Really? WOW! I was taking two a day and had to lower my dose to 1 pill every other day. My blood pressure is often something like 94/55 on just two a day! They are a blood thinner, plus I have low iron problems (supposedly solved with iron supps), but I don't know how anyone takes that amount.

Which just proves we are all an experiment of one.

-Robert

keithchircop
07-25-2007, 11:47 PM
Really? WOW! I was taking two a day and had to lower my dose to 1 pill every other day. My blood pressure is often something like 94/55 on just two a day! They are a blood thinner, plus I have low iron problems (supposedly solved with iron supps), but I don't know how anyone takes that amount.

Which just proves we are all an experiment of one.

-Robert

i don't understand how on the capsule boxes it says "max 2 a day", but on the liquid oil boxes it says "max 2 teaspoons a day". a teaspoon is a much bigger dose than a capsule.

chess9
07-26-2007, 03:34 AM
i don't understand how on the capsule boxes it says "max 2 a day", but on the liquid oil boxes it says "max 2 teaspoons a day". a teaspoon is a much bigger dose than a capsule.


There is no standardized dose. That is one of the problems with non-prescription supplements. As a consequence, most supplements are way underdosed to avoid the inevitable lawsuit from someone who takes 5 grams of beta carotene a day and darn near dies.

-Robert

r2473
07-26-2007, 01:33 PM
This is a great thread and confirms what I have read.

I use 2 supplements: Fish Oil and a Multivitamen.

In addition, if I am excercising hard and haven't time to eat well, I will take a protein supplement (powder).

I would not say that supplements are a waste of money, but you have to use them as the name implies: THEY ARE SUPPLEMENTS, NOT REPLACEMENTS. First you need to get your eating and nutrition 100% in order. Supplements can give you just that little extra if that is what you really think you need. I personally don't need to get that little extra. I get what I need simply from eating properly (and the above cited supplements).

The Gorilla
07-26-2007, 03:09 PM
The exact mechanism in which fish oil potentates fat loss isn't completely understood. There seems to be both exercise and non-exercise pathways. Here are some potential ways that fish oil can help boost fat burning:

• DHA has been shown to prevent the conversion of pre-adipocytes to adipocytes and mediate pre-adipocyte death (kill 'em before they become immortal fat cells). (1)

• Fish oil has the ability to increase the clearance of chylomicrons and fats following a meal. This potentially can have a positive effect on substrate utilization. (2)

• Fish oil can "artificially" decrease heart rate thus increasing the level of exertion needed to reach desired intensity.

• Fish oil upregulates mitochondrial machinery and increases oxidation of fats within fat cells. (3,4)

References:
1. Kim HK, Della-Fera M, Lin J, Baile CA. Docosahexaenoic acid inhibits adipocyte differentiation and induces apoptosis in 3T3-L1 preadipocytes. The Journal of nutrition2006; 136: 2965-2969.

2. Smith BK, Sun GY, Donahue OM, Thomas TR. Exercise plus n-3 fatty acids: additive effect on postprandial lipemia. Metabolism 2004; 53: 1365-1371.

3. Flachs P, Horakova O, Brauner P, Rossmeisl M, Pecina P, Franssen-van Hal N, et al. Polyunsaturated fatty acids of marine origin upregulate mitochondrial biogenesis and induce beta-oxidation in white fat. Diabetologia 2005; 48: 2365-2375.

4. Guo W, Xie W, Lei T, Hamilton JA. Eicosapentaenoic acid, but not oleic acid, stimulates beta-oxidation in adipocytes. Lipids 2005; 40: 815-821.



wait a minute, there are immortal fat cells?Is there anything that can be done to kill them?

richw76
07-26-2007, 03:24 PM
wait a minute, there are immortal fat cells?Is there anything that can be done to kill them?

Lipo suction can remove some fat cells I guess. I belive Ano was refering to the fact that once fat cells are created they are very resistant, and don't Disapear they get smaller. That's one of the reasons people that were never fat gain weight much slower and formally fat people have to always be on vigile. Darn evolution, There's no way I'm gonna starv let the fat go :-)

The Gorilla
07-26-2007, 03:45 PM
Lipo suction can remove some fat cells I guess. I belive Ano was refering to the fact that once fat cells are created they are very resistant, and don't Disapear they get smaller. That's one of the reasons people that were never fat gain weight much slower and formally fat people have to always be on vigile. Darn evolution, There's no way I'm gonna starv let the fat go :-)

wow, that's amazing, I had no idea.Is there no way of killing them though?

tricky
07-26-2007, 03:55 PM
wow, that's amazing, I had no idea.Is there no way of killing them though?

Only through lipo. Yeah, it sucks. :D

But not entirely. One theory goes that with all the extra fat cells, if you were to actually get lean enough, you could "repopulate" your fat cells with a more favorable O3 count, by choosing to eat a lot of healthy fat sources. That in turn means your bodyfat composition now has more "anti-inflammatory" and your hormonal profile will be much healtheri than a guy with a lower fat count. But, yeah, you'd need to get under 10% BF to even consider.

Primarily, your best defense is to increase the mitochondrial density of your muscles and fat. This enables your body to dip into fat stores more efficiently, improve insulin sensitivity (i.e. need for less sugar upfront), and produce less free radicals per BMR. And this is done by brutal anaerobic/lactate threshhold scheme done over time. Not by running a lot.

The Gorilla
07-26-2007, 03:57 PM
o3 count?Wow, I'm in way over my head here ;)

tricky
07-26-2007, 04:07 PM
Yeah, this is more esoteric Lyle McDonald-ish stuff.

But basically the theory goes that to *really* detoxify your body, you have to lean out. And then, at that point, you have to eat an abdundance of healthy fat, specifically polyunsaturates with a very favorable O3:O6 ratio in order to kinda realign your hormonal profile. If you can get the body to store the polyunsaturated as bodyfat, then you can really get this to work. That in turn will kick off a kind of anti-aging effect in your body.

The Gorilla
07-26-2007, 04:08 PM
Yeah, this is more esoteric Lyle McDonald-ish stuff.

But basically the theory goes that to *really* detoxify your body, you have to lean out. And then, at that point, you have to eat an abdundance of healthy fat, specifically polyunsaturates with a very favorable O3:O6 ratio in order to kinda realign your hormonal profile. If you can get the body to store the polyunsaturated as bodyfat, then you can really get this to work. That in turn will kick off a kind of anti-aging effect in your body.



anti aging?Do you mean a slow down in aging or a reverse?And what is O3 and O6 ?

tricky
07-26-2007, 04:17 PM
Do you mean a slow down in aging or a reverse?

Slow down in aging effects related to hormonal profile. But that's all theoretical stuff. O3 and O6 are Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids. Basically, they affect how your cells talk to each other, and helps to mediate inflammation of all kinds. The theory goes that, because O3 is no longer a major part of our diets, we're all in kind of a perpetual state of inflammation. Which leads to a bunch of diseases, mental disorders, and just general crap health.

And, so, yes, the bodyfat you store helps perpetuate a bunch of these inflammatory symptoms in your body. And, so, a lot of kinda theorists believe that the more obese that you are, the more O3 you need to intake in order to counteract this.

Ano
07-26-2007, 04:53 PM
Lipo suction can remove some fat cells I guess. I belive Ano was refering to the fact that once fat cells are created they are very resistant, and don't Disapear they get smaller. That's one of the reasons people that were never fat gain weight much slower and formally fat people have to always be on vigile. Darn evolution, There's no way I'm gonna starv let the fat go :-)


Yup.

And keep this in mind the fat that settles around your belly secretes substances known as adipokines, which raise your risk of disease.

In fact, the larger your midsection grows, the more dangerous it becomes.

Here's what your belly fat is producing right now :

- Resistin : a hormone that leads to high blood sugar, an independent risk factor for diabetes and heart disease

- Plasminogen Activator inhibitor : a substance that contributes to the formation of blood clots, which can cause heart attacks and stroke

- Interleukin-6 : a chemical that causes arterial inflammation, which can trigger pieces of plaque to break off arterial walls and block the flow of bood to your heart.

- Angiotensin : a compound that raises blood pressure

- Adiponectin : an antiflammatory compound that helps counteract the effect of Interleukin-6. Unfortunately, as your fat cells grow larger, the amount of adiponectin they secrete actually decreases.

naturalhealth
08-12-2008, 03:05 AM
In regard to the question as to whether or not supplements are necessary and/or beneficial, in today's world, they most certainly are. Of course, it would be ideal to gain everything we need through what we eat, but that is not currently the world we live in, so it becomes necessary to supplement our diet with what we're not taking in.

Omegas are so beneficial in so many ways. And yes, quality of the supplement does determine how much of it our body is able to absorb. I think that "tricky" summarized pretty well what to look for where quality is concerned.

If you're looking for a good omega supplement, I'll plug my own company and tell you that there are some good EFA Gold products. And they all are mercury-free. The MEGA EFA Blend gives you the appropriate ratio of Omegas 3, 6, and 9. You really can't beat the prices either.

bee
08-12-2008, 10:17 PM
Fish burps aren't a problem at night unless you're sleeping with someone. I generally recommend eating lots of salt water fish. Ideally, 5 days per week.

johnvaque
08-15-2008, 12:17 PM
Hi all, I'm curious why people don't use olive oil instead of fish oil. Isn't it the same type of oil, but a whole lot cheaper? I was advised to take a tablespoon a day, and I think it's really helped my joints out, and even energy.