PDA

View Full Version : Fed Needs to Improve His BACKHAND... If He wants to Win Another Wimby Against Nadal!


tennisfanatic
07-08-2007, 02:27 PM
There are two things that I notice that troubled Federer throughout the recently concluded Wimby Final:

1. Slice serves on Federer's Backhand side
- Nadal so many times serve a heavy slice serve to federer's backhand and won the point. Federer's most of the time sank his return into the net with this kind of serve or gave Nadal a soft ball that could rip for a sure winner.

2. Top spin ground strokes on Federer's backhand
- i think this is the best stratregy that Nadal put on the table. He kept on attacking Federer's backhand... He gave only 1-2 forehands in at least 5 strokes baseline rally...

If not for his serve, Federer could have lost this final... yes his serve won him the match..

So a lesson for Federer is that he needs to develop more his backhand especially against Nadal...

ACE of Hearts
07-08-2007, 02:30 PM
If u noticed, the bounce was going up to Fed's ears.The bounces where ridiculous in this so called grass surface.Cant blame him for that.

tennisfanatic
07-08-2007, 02:36 PM
If u noticed, the bounce was going up to Fed's ears.The bounces where ridiculous in this so called grass surface.Cant blame him for that.

Yeah i actually also notice that... I expected that the bounce would be quite low in grass court like last year but it was not... I don't know if it's because of Nadal or the court itself...

tricky
07-08-2007, 02:44 PM
Fed's slice came through at multiple points in the game, actually. He did a good job taking on Nadal's FH and he got the depth that he wanted. But the surface wasn't allowing him to generate the pace he's accustomed to.

This was also true with Fed's FH, which at times really played like clay out there. Both guys were having problems hitting the ball flat today.

ACE of Hearts
07-08-2007, 02:47 PM
^^^^^because the surface played like ****.I am surprised that Fed was able to hang on with the way it was playing.His serve was what saved his ***.

Prod
07-08-2007, 05:27 PM
There are two things that I notice that troubled Federer throughout the recently concluded Wimby Final:

1. Slice serves on Federer's Backhand side
- Nadal so many times serve a heavy slice serve to federer's backhand and won the point. Federer's most of the time sank his return into the net with this kind of serve or gave Nadal a soft ball that could rip for a sure winner.

2. Top spin ground strokes on Federer's backhand
- i think this is the best stratregy that Nadal put on the table. He kept on attacking Federer's backhand... He gave only 1-2 forehands in at least 5 strokes baseline rally...

If not for his serve, Federer could have lost this final... yes his serve won him the match..

So a lesson for Federer is that he needs to develop more his backhand especially against Nadal...

don't think he's gonna listen to you. sorry to disappoint and rain on your party. he simply doesn't care about what you say. can we stop this kind of threads in which people sound like they're giving a tennis lesson/advice to pros? seriously, it's futile and becoming a bore. but hey, i gotta plead guilty to reading these threads. my apologies for bashing your thread, but do take the time to evaluate the value of your post.

Mad iX
07-08-2007, 05:34 PM
Gotta agree. Nadal used 95% the same tactic as he did at the RG final. The other 5% is going for a few more winners and coming to the net.

Federer as well used the same lousy tactics he did, except he actually sliced a few backhands. His serve definitely came to his rescue big time, in the 5th set and the tiebreaks.

superbooga
07-08-2007, 05:43 PM
I don't think the grass has slowed down at all. Both players hit incredibly heavy shots, causing the ball to kick up. Volleys and slices still stayed quite low.

The real reason Federer struggles against Nadal is Federer's inability or unwillingness to attack Nadal's serve. Only in the fifth set, when Federer sensed Nadal's decline (possibly due to the injury) did Federer started teeing off the serve. If Federer could do this at the French Open then he could have won it.

psamp14
07-08-2007, 06:00 PM
If u noticed, the bounce was going up to Fed's ears.The bounces where ridiculous in this so called grass surface.Cant blame him for that.

ACE, you've been saying it a lot and i totally agree....it looked a lot like a clay court match out there today, except the ball didnt bounce "as" high and federer sliced more...wimbledon has got to step up and make grass into the surface the way its supposed to be....fast,...very fast

J-man
07-08-2007, 06:01 PM
It really shows how good Federer's serve is when he can pull out a match like this. But I agree that his backhand needs to improve and he needs to get himself into more rallies off the backhand return

ShcMad
07-08-2007, 07:00 PM
Not only today, but in other matches as well, I noticed that Federer was unable to hit down-the-line backhands during this whole tournament. Maybe he deemed it an unnecesary risk shooting for down-the-line backhand winners, but I would have loved to see one or two every now and then as a surprise for the opponent. His backhand did have the normal pace and spin; however, 90% of the time, it was just a rally crosscourt shot. He rarely put any mustard behind it. It seemed like his backhand merely acted as a set-up shot for a forehand winner later.

On another note, I think it's pretty ridiculous that Nadal was able to apply Roland Garros tactics against Roger today at Wimby AND ALMOST SUCCEED. Nadal's forehands kept bouncing above Fed's shoulders. I thought I was watching Roland Garros all over again. I don't remember grass being this high-bouncing, if I remember correctly. Also, I believe the US Open hardcourts are much faster than this year's Wimby grass. Seriously, I have no clue what kind of grass they use, but it's got to go.

saram
07-08-2007, 07:07 PM
11 slams, 5 in a row at the big W...owns all the other hard courts....don't think he'll change his strokes.

apparantly what he does is working....

FEDEXP
07-08-2007, 07:07 PM
I agree; it would appear that the four surfaces are becoming less and less delineated. AO is getting rid of rebound ace as well.

saram
07-08-2007, 07:09 PM
I agree; it would appear that the four surfaces are becoming less and less delineated. AO is getting rid of rebound ace as well.


what year?

Swissv2
07-08-2007, 07:12 PM
I dont think he necessarily needs to change his backhand, maybe improve it to handle the high bounces. His current backhand is fine enough to afford him 11 Grand Slams.

BreakPoint
07-08-2007, 07:14 PM
I think all Federer needs to do to win another Wimbledon final against Nadal is to show up. ;) LOL

Adrupert
07-08-2007, 07:19 PM
don't think he's gonna listen to you. sorry to disappoint and rain on your party. he simply doesn't care about what you say. can we stop this kind of threads in which people sound like they're giving a tennis lesson/advice to pros? seriously, it's futile and becoming a bore. but hey, i gotta plead guilty to reading these threads. my apologies for bashing your thread, but do take the time to evaluate the value of your post.

Adding more wood to the flame; it's all you're doing.

tennis_hand
07-08-2007, 07:20 PM
Roddick played 2 finals against Fed in Wimbledon and faded.

How about Nadal?

Prod
07-08-2007, 07:56 PM
Adding more wood to the flame; it's all you're doing.

Flame? With the current ridiculousness of posts and posters, it's already an inferno. I do see your point about adding fuel to the fire, but I had to get it out of my head. My apologies for any inconveniences and grievances. I'll take note of your advice. (That wasn't sarcasm).

dennis10is
07-08-2007, 08:16 PM
don't think he's gonna listen to you. sorry to disappoint and rain on your party. he simply doesn't care about what you say. can we stop this kind of threads in which people sound like they're giving a tennis lesson/advice to pros? seriously, it's futile and becoming a bore. but hey, i gotta plead guilty to reading these threads. my apologies for bashing your thread, but do take the time to evaluate the value of your post.

Prod,

You are a new user. Some observation for you. Don't you know that everone here is an expert in tennis?

NamRanger
07-08-2007, 09:25 PM
Federer didn't really crank up the pace untill about midway through the 5th set. Once he did though, Nadal could hardly keep up. The ball was moving at a blinding speed, even on that crap they call grass.

Alex132
07-08-2007, 09:42 PM
bounces high or not he better get better with his backhand or Nadal will chop it off next time they play...

Big Fed
07-09-2007, 06:04 AM
There are two things that I notice that troubled Federer throughout the recently concluded Wimby Final:

1. Slice serves on Federer's Backhand side
- Nadal so many times serve a heavy slice serve to federer's backhand and won the point. Federer's most of the time sank his return into the net with this kind of serve or gave Nadal a soft ball that could rip for a sure winner.

2. Top spin ground strokes on Federer's backhand
- i think this is the best stratregy that Nadal put on the table. He kept on attacking Federer's backhand... He gave only 1-2 forehands in at least 5 strokes baseline rally...

If not for his serve, Federer could have lost this final... yes his serve won him the match..

So a lesson for Federer is that he needs to develop more his backhand especially against Nadal...


Lol he beat Rafa with it.

Bottle Rocket
07-09-2007, 06:23 AM
Nadal's forehands kept bouncing above Fed's shoulders. I thought I was watching Roland Garros all over again. I don't remember grass being this high-bouncing, if I remember correctly.

Nobody thinks it is a possibility that Nadal hits with so much top spin, that it just doesn't matter?

Why do the courts keep getting credit for his incredibly heavy forehands?

Also, people keep bringing up Nadal's game plan. Everyone is acting like it is some miraculous tactic, picking on a guys backhand. Of course it troubled Federer. Its his backhand! What exactly is it that you guys expect Federer to do? You all know he won the match, right?

I don't understand who you guys are to make comments on the tactics of these guys, like saying Federer used the same "lousy" tactics that he used at RG. I'd love to win consecutive Wimbledon titles with my lousy tactics.

Prod
07-09-2007, 06:52 AM
Prod,

You are a new user. Some observation for you. Don't you know that everone here is an expert in tennis?

I detect some sarcasm, maybe? However, new? Hardly. I've been reading these boards for about 3-4 years. I just don't post much. I enjoy reading insightful posts. They have helped me with my game, enriched my knowledge on equipments and the history of tennis, and made me aware of current attitudes/perspective on the game and players.

What I do not enjoy is that sometimes people emphatically declare rather absurd ideas. Take this thread for example, is there a need to assume that Federer has to beat Nadal to win another Wimbledon title? It's not a sure thing that either Federer or Nadal will face each other to compete for the title or even vie for the title. Heck, Federer could have been beaten by Haas if it weren't for the walkover, and I bet Federer's backhand could have sucked during that match. People can have their own opinions and criticism of how players play and the game, but there's no need to act mightier and more all-knowing than the pros. Sure, we all see that Federer has been having backhand issues among many others, but how does associating Federer's backhand problems with Nadal has much to do with winning future Wimbledon titles? It could have been more worthwhile to write about how Federer's backhand seem to be inconsistent and often times weak and defensive against Nadal's game. I hope you understand my point and that I have expressed it in a somewhat clear manner. If not, agree to disagree and leave it at that? It's becoming much more difficult to search to the myriad of absurd posts nowadays to find something worth reading, entertaining, and insightful.

BreakPoint
07-09-2007, 12:16 PM
If you think Federer needs to improve his backhand then watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vrojpBD2iU

Enough said.

:D

tricky
07-09-2007, 12:45 PM
Nobody thinks it is a possibility that Nadal hits with so much top spin, that it just doesn't matter?

Why do the courts keep getting credit for his incredibly heavy forehands?

Not on grass, though. Not on a grass surface that we're accustomed to seeing. If you look at how the ball bounces at the US Open, it wasn't nearly as generous for Nadal.

Issue of surface is valid because Federer's BH just didn't have pace like it has in past grass tournaments. The difference between clay and grass here was that Federer really had no problems hitting the ball low and on the rise, in that sense he was fine against the bounce this time. But even though he was hitting the ball in his normal contact height -- and when Federer does, his BH flies -- he wasn't getting enough pace on the shot.

That said, I noticed that too with Gasquet's BH when he played Fed. It was bouncing a bit like clay when it should have skidded through the courts.

I'd love to win consecutive Wimbledon titles with my lousy tactics.Sure, Rafa would love to have Fed's serve. The tactics thing is valid, because Nadal's tactics was using terrific tactics to constantly pressure Federer on his serve. He was cutting off Federer's passing angles, and hitting inside-out FHs from the service line. Or, rather, he was marvelously constructing points so that he could consistently go into the service line. Fed didn't do that, but he could have because the surface was slow and high bounce for Nadal too.

CyBorg
07-09-2007, 12:49 PM
I don't buy it. Roger will never beat Nadal on grass again if the surface is as bouncy as it was yesterday.

Roger's backhand is as it always was. It's great when the balls are around the waist, but when they get up to the ears he's in trouble.

I foresee interesting things in 2008 with Nadal potentially dominating the first half of the year (including the Aussie and the RG) and Federer suddenly taking over again thereafter (with a strong advantage for both the US Open and the Masters). The decider of the #1 ranking may wind up being Wimbledon, appropriately positioned right in the middle of the season.

Rhino
07-09-2007, 12:51 PM
Yeah Fed really needs to make some changes, and quickly. I mean 5 straight Wimbledons and 10 straight slam finals..... his game is in a real mess :)

tricky
07-09-2007, 12:53 PM
Roger's backhand is as it always was. It's great when the balls are around the waist, but when they get up to the ears he's in trouble.

What's disturbing was that Roger consistently was hitting around the balls around the waist, and still the balls lacked pace. That's a reflection of the surface.

I foresee interesting things in 2008 with Nadal potentially dominating the first half of the year (including the Aussie and the RG)

Nadal's success on HC has been good this year, but he's yet to get past quarters in either Australian or US Open. It could happen, but I think he doesn't like what hard court, really hard packed HC, feels to his body. Grass is much more forgiving.

TheNatural
07-09-2007, 12:56 PM
Good point. Canas also picked on Feds backhand with good success.

CyBorg
07-09-2007, 01:00 PM
Nadal's success on HC has been good this year, but he's yet to get past quarters in either Australian or US Open. It could happen, but I think he doesn't like what hard court, really hard packed HC, feels to his body. Grass is much more forgiving.

Nadal did great at Indian Wells. Inevitably he'll have a great Aussie.

tricky
07-09-2007, 01:03 PM
Nadal did great at Indian Wells. Inevitably he'll have a great Aussie.

Yeah, I think so (not sure about 2008 per se, but we'll see.) To be honest, I'd thought he'd be further along on slow HC surfaces than he has in the last 2 years. But he's getting there.

2nd half of this season should be lots of fun, that's to be sure. Not just Nadal but Joker and maybe Gasquet.

TheNatural
07-09-2007, 01:08 PM
Anyways all of his backhand errors wont matter as long as Fed can keep firing down aces and undereturnable serves, thats's the basis of his game, not his backhand.

Bertie B
07-09-2007, 01:18 PM
Gasquet, imo, is like Hingis - stylistic. But will be vulnerable to the big hitters when they're on. He has no power.

drakulie
07-09-2007, 01:24 PM
There are two things that I notice that troubled Federer throughout the recently concluded Wimby Final:

1. Slice serves on Federer's Backhand side
- Nadal so many times serve a heavy slice serve to federer's backhand and won the point. Federer's most of the time sank his return into the net with this kind of serve or gave Nadal a soft ball that could rip for a sure winner.

2. Top spin ground strokes on Federer's backhand
- i think this is the best stratregy that Nadal put on the table. He kept on attacking Federer's backhand... He gave only 1-2 forehands in at least 5 strokes baseline rally...

If not for his serve, Federer could have lost this final... yes his serve won him the match..

So a lesson for Federer is that he needs to develop more his backhand especially against Nadal...

In that case, Nadal needs to improve his serve and Forehand if he wants to beat Fed on grass. Let's see 24 aces to 1?, and Nadal had 5 crucial FH errors in the last game of the match. Oh, and Fed hit a BH winner down the line to take that last game to deuce.

tricky
07-09-2007, 01:28 PM
Nadal had 5 crucial FH errors in the last game of the match

That was interesting, actually. Nadal was constantly going long with his DTL FHs in the last set.

Also -- and this is big credit to Rog who's rarely played 5 setters -- Federer really, really raised the level of his shotmaking in the 5th set. He camped on the service line and took apart Rafa's 2nd serve. Just gutsy tennis out there.