Forehand Grip and Young Age, should it be changed.

[iambt21]

Im teaching an amazing athlete of 11 year old at tennis. he has a very good rank. I am worried and so are other pros that his grip is too extreme western. when i was younger i had a very extreme western grip also, but i changed bc/ i knew it was not right.

The question is; Should i have this student change his grip now while he is young? or should i wait?

I know that alot of high balls when you are younger force such an extreme grip.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[WildVolley]

My opinion is that it should be immediately changed to something reasonable, like a semi-western, or a Nadal Western at the most extreme. Lots of little kids will rotate to something like a Hawaiian grip because it makes it easier to take high balls, given they are so short. But the grip is essentially useless. Perhaps one pro in history has done anything with it.

Why groove an absurd grip at an early age?

[iambt21]

thanks. im leaning towards changing it. I dont konw which grip should be used because my whole life ive struggled changing my forehand grips. This is one reason i am asking so that he does not have to struggle so much.

[The Gorilla]

Move half a bevel a month and over the course of a few months you can change it to something reasonable with no detriment to his game.

[Bottle Rocket]

What does "too extreme western" mean?

[The Gorilla]

^^
what it says

[Solat]

saying things in huge bold gets your point across better

thanks Gorilla!

[The Gorilla]

haha
NO PROBLEM! ;)

[Justin]

Get him to change it.

I've been playing with an extreme western grip for almost two years, and it has killed my wrist (especially with the windshield wiper follow through). Now I'm trying to change it to semi-western...maybe even to an eastern grip.

[dave333]

Go with a mild western grip...unless he gets really tall...then use SW.

I use a mild western grip and its completely fine. There is nothing wrong with western grips when you do it right.

[fgs]

as i understand that your 11yrs. old has a good rank, meaning that ce also plays competitional, i'd suggest you currently son't change ANYTHING! let the tournament season end and then go for the change.
try going to semiwestern all at once - the incremental steps suggested are one of the most stupid things i have heard in regard to a competitional player because that would take him out of serious matchplay due to his uncertainty and disbelief in his strokes for at least a year.
so, after competitions have ended, set him up on the semiwestern (this is a more versatile grip, but western would do too - depends on what gamestyle he's moving to!) and do some intensive drilling so that he can gain confidence in the mastery of the new stroke in about a months time, then go on to combine it with different playing progressions, forcing him to "find" the grip on fh/bh alternates etc.

[iambt21]

he plays competitive tennis and thats great, but i feel why wait? He's 11 years old. He's doing great in tournaments. just finished 2nd in a valley futures tournament 12 and under. This is a tough decision to tell him that he needs to change his grip after he wins all of these tournies and does great all summer. Wouldnt it be better to correct it now so that he can get the practice in with the new grip?

here are the Options

1. Wait till end of summer to change grip.
2. Teach him now and shock him with entirely new grip. Afterall he doesn't have another tournament for 2 weeks.
3. Change his grip slowly. a bevel at a time.

Im thinking if i introduce him to the proper grip and just feed him balls for a couple days he will adjust. I think that he might end up finding his new grip.


I think at this age shouldnt the important thing be to get form correct and not necessarilly be focused on winning tournaments?

[fgs]

iambt21,
don't screw with your players selfconfidence!!!! changing grips is a major thing, because it will throw off the complete motion, since you would bring the racquet at a different angle to the ball.
first and foremost - western, even extreme western is not by any means an INCORRECT grip. it is just a grip that you will most see in clay court tennis where balls are bouncing rather high and it makes low balls more difficult to hit. if you get under knee level you can only wrist it (nadal type). so, these extreme grips are limiting your choices and options, but they are not incorrect. if you closely follow the pros, you will see that they will slightly adjust the grips to the kind of ball they are hitting - low ball, high ball, spinny ball, slicey ball, ball from midcourt etc.
i can give it to you written, that it takes two to three months of rather intense work to feel comfortable with the new grip, even if the boy is only 11! it's not only hitting forehands, but it's getting accustomed to change the grip to the appropriate position while in the "battle for the point". it has to become automatical, no thinking of bevels or whatever, the grip just has to click in and the player has to execute the stroke with confidence.
tell him you show him a new forehand, where he can drive more through the ball and make faster shots that will get his opponents into defense, don't start with "your current grip is bulls because it's limiting your growth potential" - at 11 they don't buy this (my son is 8 and i have worked with quite a few children for some while).
winning against your peers is fun and your kid is winning, so don't spoil this thing. it's a completely different story taking a pro and reshaping some stroke than it is when working with kids. wait for the season to be over and then go to the tough work.

[burosky]

Can you please elaborate why your 11 year old athlete's grip is incorrect? I remember way back during the wood racket era when Borg was just starting to make a name for himself. If I'm not mistaken, he is the first notable pro who hit with a lot of top spin. Certainly not the norm during those days. It would have been easy to say his grip was wrong. But, who can argue with the success he had. In addition, that same grip eventually became popular and widely used. My point? Incorrect grip or not, as long as the desired results stroke-wise are achieved (not necessarily the winning of matches), why change it.

[habib]

Can you please elaborate why your 11 year old athlete's grip is incorrect? I remember way back during the wood racket era when Borg was just starting to make a name for himself. If I'm not mistaken, he is the first notable pro who hit with a lot of top spin. Certainly not the norm during those days. It would have been easy to say his grip was wrong. But, who can argue with the success he had. In addition, that same grip eventually became popular and widely used. My point? Incorrect grip or not, as long as the desired results stroke-wise are achieved (not necessarily the winning of matches), why change it.

Of course, calling it an incorrect grip is wrong, but the Western (especially the extreme variant) is still a very limiting stroke - not to mention it could render the kid injury prone. It's great for him now, because he's small and it makes hitting high balls easy and probably the loopy heavy shots he hits (I'm just guessing here, as this is the pattern most youngsters with this grip seem to follow) are enough to win him a lot of matches *now.* In the long run it may be and likely is beneficial to get him into a SW or something close.

Still wouldn't do it mid-season for the effects it may have on his confidence. I say wait a few months for the summer run to end.

[VGP]

That seems the typical opinion about whether or not to "change" a stroke.

It shouldn't be a big deal, and waiting until after the competition time is up to you.

Too much concern for winning at the junior level. If I see another kid with an extreme western forehand grip and two-handed backhand with no net game or volley, I'm gonna puke. I think the extreme-western forehand can be a weaker and less versatile shot than a seme-western forehand. Great for spin, less for penetration.

You're talking about turning the handle a few degrees, it is an adjustment and is a significant change (to some). But not as drastic as changing from a two-handed backhand to a one hander like Sampras did at 14 and Edberg did at 16.

Make the change and move on. If the kid's got talent, he'll adjust.

[fgs]

vgp,
may i ask you from where do you know it shouldn't be such a big deal? have it ever crossed your mind that these kids ("if the kid's got talent, he'll adjust") are not just another piece of meat. what if he doesn't have that much talent? where do you know from that there is too much concern for winning at the junior level? have you ever heard of any champion in whatever sport being told that winning (i.e. being the best) doesn't matter. how do you want to model a competitive mind if winning doesn't matter. what does this kid work for? what is the purpose of the drills? to win in 5 years? i doubt he (at 11) has such a time frame. but then yeah, what does it matter. there will be a few others that come along the way.

[The Gorilla]

I think I should make one final point, I don't want to get involved in any undignified rows, but I believe this should be your course of action:

1)Try changing his grip by half a bevel and see if he can adapt to it quickly, for most people such a slight adjustment will be far easier than a full scale change to another grip.It is far easier to change from a less extreme grip like an eastern to a semi western because the face is more closed on contact, so initially the ball will just land short.However if you want to change from an extreme grip, like the one your student is using, to a less extreme grip an entire grip change will result in him hitting balls out of the court entirely, as the racquet face will initially be be far to open at contact.You have to allow for the wrist learning to orientate itself differently.A gradual change will result in a, (usually very short) period of hitting balls long, because you will be hitting the balls flatter because the grip is less extreme, and you will also be hitting it farther upwards, because the racquet face will be more open.See if he has adapted to a half a bevel change fully within two days, or about 4 hours court time.If he has not...

2)...And it is equally difficult for him to move half a bevel less extreme as it is for him to hit a semi western, then do as FGS said and wait till summer and just change his grip all in one go, the problem with this approach is that the adjustment period takes much longer and you can lose confidence in your stroke after watching balls fly out of the court for a couple of weeks.




Anyway, it's your decision.

[habib]

I think I should make one final point, I don't want to get involved in any undignified rows, but I believe this should be your course of action:

1)Try changing his grip by half a bevel and see if he can adapt to it quickly, for most people such a slight adjustment will be far easier than a full scale change to another grip.It is far easier to change from a less extreme grip like an eastern to a semi western because the face is more closed on contact, so initially the ball will just land short.However if you want to change from an extreme grip, like the one your student is using, to a less extreme grip an entire grip change will result in him hitting balls out of the court entirely, as the racquet face will initially be be far to open at contact.You have to allow for the wrist learning to orientate itself differently.A gradual change will result in a, (usually very short) period of hitting balls long, because you will be hitting the balls flatter because the grip is less extreme, and you will also be hitting it farther upwards, because the racquet face will be more open.See if he has adapted to a half a bevel change fully within two days, or about 4 hours court time.If he has not...

2)...And it is equally difficult for him to move half a bevel less extreme as it is for him to hit a semi western, then do as FGS said and wait till summer and just change his grip all in one go, the problem with this approach is that the adjustment period takes much longer and you can lose confidence in your stroke after watching balls fly out of the court for a couple of weeks.




Anyway, it's your decision.

I think that the gradual half-bevel-at-a-time switch makes sense, but I'm hesitant about it because I think it would be more work, ultimately, than a straight switch to SW. It's not a big difference from the W in terms of mechanics, and I think that a "jump right in" approach here may end up being less painful than the "wade in slowly" approach.

[iambt21]

These are all very good points. Thanks to all of you for helping.

[herosol]

it would be better to explain extreme western.

i mean if he wins tournaments, there can't be something wrong with it, unless he isn't winning tournaments with big forehands.

there isn't always a need for change. if you have something play with it.
but if you feel the need to do it.

plus he's 11. anyone at that age is adaptable.

[iambt21]

iambt21,
don't screw with your players selfconfidence!!!! changing grips is a major thing, because it will throw off the complete motion, since you would bring the racquet at a different angle to the ball.
first and foremost - western, even extreme western is not by any means an INCORRECT grip. it is just a grip that you will most see in clay court tennis where balls are bouncing rather high and it makes low balls more difficult to hit. if you get under knee level you can only wrist it (nadal type). so, these extreme grips are limiting your choices and options, but they are not incorrect. if you closely follow the pros, you will see that they will slightly adjust the grips to the kind of ball they are hitting - low ball, high ball, spinny ball, slicey ball, ball from midcourt etc.
i can give it to you written, that it takes two to three months of rather intense work to feel comfortable with the new grip, even if the boy is only 11! it's not only hitting forehands, but it's getting accustomed to change the grip to the appropriate position while in the "battle for the point". it has to become automatical, no thinking of bevels or whatever, the grip just has to click in and the player has to execute the stroke with confidence.
tell him you show him a new forehand, where he can drive more through the ball and make faster shots that will get his opponents into defense, don't start with "your current grip is bulls because it's limiting your growth potential" - at 11 they don't buy this (my son is 8 and i have worked with quite a few children for some while).
winning against your peers is fun and your kid is winning, so don't spoil this thing. it's a completely different story taking a pro and reshaping some stroke than it is when working with kids. wait for the season to be over and then go to the tough work.

Ok so i showed him the other grip and he adjusted almost immediately. however his grip started to slide back to his old grip almost and he didnt realize it. but i just wanted to let him feel it and now im just gonna stick to his grip he has for now.