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aceindahole2K5
10-08-2004, 01:13 PM
assuming the sox complete the sweep today, would you rather play the yanks or the twins in the ALCS? is a world series trip tainted, or less sweet without having to go through the men in pinstripes?

personally i'd love to see em sweep new york in the ALCS, exorcise all kinds of demons

Joe Average
10-08-2004, 10:27 PM
Well, the Curse isn't about not being able to beat the Yankees, it's about not being able to win a World Series. The Yankees didn't beat the Sox in 1986 or 1975 or 1967 (I think the Yankees finished in 9th place that year). And it's really not about a World Series trip. If they get into the World Series and lose to the Cardinals ... guess what? The Curse continues.

But sure. They can beat the Yankees. But not in a sweep. And if the Sox should meet and beat Minnesota in the ALCS, are you really going to be disappointed it wasn't the Yankees? That's the problem with some Sox fans, they are so obsessed with the Yankees, they think that by beating them, everything will be fine. The Yankees weren't a factor in 1986.

Joe Average
10-09-2004, 06:59 AM
... which reminds me of a trivia question:

Name three Hall of Famers who began and ended their careers in the same city, but on different teams.


Babe Ruth -- Boston Red Sox, Boston Braves
Willie Mays -- New York Giants, New York Mets
Hank Aaron -- Milwaukee Braves, Milwaukee Brewers

There may be others. But these are certainly the most famous.

Brettolius
10-11-2004, 12:51 PM
ain't sweeping the yankee's, son! booyakasha!! how 'bout them apples AAAHHHHH!!

Camilio Pascual
10-12-2004, 09:41 AM
Joe - You brought back one of my most painful baseball memories. When Willie Mays (my all-time CF pick) was with the Mets and couldn't throw. A ball went to the outfield, Willie got it, and threw it to the other outfielder, who missed it. The error was charged to the other outfield. That was past the time Willie should have retired, I would have felt better if the error was charged to him. Still, that 1954 catch against Cleveland in the World Series...

Brettolius
10-12-2004, 10:38 AM
...is the only reason we know vic wertz's name!!

Camilio Pascual
10-12-2004, 12:24 PM
...is the only reason we know vic wertz's name!!

You, sir, are a true fan! Speakin' of the Indians, I've always wondered...what if Herb Score had ducked? Or if Gil had fallen through the ice and drowned as a young boy?

Joe Average
10-14-2004, 04:02 PM
Yep, Camilio. Mays was the best I'd ever seen. He was a baseball genius, in the way Maravich might have been described as a basketball genius or Unitas a football genius. When Jose Canseco became the first member of the 40/40 club -- 40 stolen bases and 40 home runs -- Mays said ... "If I'd have known then that it'd be so important, I'd have done it." No doubt he would have.

Brettolius
10-15-2004, 05:02 AM
well, if mr. mcdougald had not made it (for whatever reason) or herb had ducked (woulda' been easier if he didn't have such a wild follow through!!),score would have went down as the left handed bob feller, or the possibly the american league's answer to sandy koufax...but we'll never know. what if clemente never got on that plane...

Camilio Pascual
10-18-2004, 09:23 AM
well, if mr. mcdougald had not made it (for whatever reason) or herb had ducked (woulda' been easier if he didn't have such a wild follow through!!),score would have went down as the left handed bob feller, or the possibly the american league's answer to sandy koufax...but we'll never know. what if clemente never got on that plane...

Another true fan!!! Great comparison, he was on track to be their Sandy Koufax.
Ah, Clemente! I grew up in Pittsburgh, and remember when he was Bob Clemente. Something that is very comforting to me, given his tragic death, is that he got to 3,000 hits...exactly.

bcaz
10-18-2004, 10:40 PM
Camilio --

My all-time greatest sports hero was Roberto Clemente. He was the best all-around player I ever saw and had perhaps the best outfield arm of all time. Nobody went from first to third on a single to right field. I, too, remember as a little boy how lame it was when they tried to call him "Bob."

The first big league game I ever attended was Game 7, 1960 World Series. I was six. Upper deck, Forbes Field, first base side. Vivid memories of Kubek carried off after taking the ground ball in the throat. Berra, looking up at Hal Smith's blast going over the left field ivy. Berra himself with a huge homer late in the game. And, of course, Maz. With an introduction to baseball like this, how could I grow up not being a seamhead? Sigh ... moved to Connecticut in '61 and immediately embraced the Mets when they were created ... my very own team ... still suffering ... I saw Roberto's last regular-season hit, # 3,000, a gapper double at Shea off of lefty Jon Matlack. Little did we know ...

I've been wondering, Camilio -- were you a fan of that excellent Twins righthander Camilo Pascual? If so, why the extra "i?"

Camilio Pascual
10-19-2004, 03:40 AM
Bcaz - I lived in baseball crazy Mt. Lebanon, a Pittsburgh suburb. Clemente is my #1 RF pick. What an arm he had. Remember the answer to this question? "What is the best defensive outfield in baseball?" Answer: Roberto Clemente in RF, Bill Virdon in CF, and somebody in LF. Remember those "Beat 'em Bucs" stickers that made it on the front page of SI? That was a magic year for me and my friends. The Yankees outscored us by a 2 - 1 margin and put up the most team offensive records in the World Series to that point and decades to come. Bobby Richardson was the MVP, what a shaft! Remember "Dr. Strangeglove", Dick Stuart? You saw the greatest, imo, home run ever hit in baseball history by the Amazin' Maz Bill Mazeroski. Ah, memories.
Camilo Pascual's name is often misspelled, I decided to go with Camilio so people would know who I was referring to but would know I wasn't him. I saw him when he pitched for perennial doormats, the Washington Senators. Then they got good when they went to Minnesota. - Thanks for bringing up some great memories, Camilio

bcaz
10-19-2004, 11:35 PM
Camilo -- I too lived in Mt. Lebanon and was attending the second grade at Edwin Markham School (not on that fateful afternoon) in the autumn of 1960. The town was baseball crazy, but even as a small boy I was impressed with the passion for football. Growing up in CT, which is a strong baseball hotbed, I never saw football as revered as it is in western PA/eastern Ohio, even though my high school won two consecutive state championshps while I was there. I saw my first NFL game that November, with Bobby Layne (no facemask!) and Tom Tracy leading the Steelers over Paul Brown's Browns, featuring Jim Brown and Milt Plum.

Camilio Pascual
10-20-2004, 12:42 PM
Bcaz - Unreal!!! I turned 10 that summer and went to Howe (?) and Markham. I lived on Anawanda until I was 8, then moved to Inglewood Drive. I played for the Spots (red hats), my brothers played for the Marks (green hats). We were big time Steeler fans, as my Dad played semi-pro ball against Pete Rose's Dad in Cincy. Remember what quarterback we traded away when we got Bobby Layne? Johnny Unitas!!! Remember how everybody got in their baseball gear and marched down (Washington Blvd.??, I forget) on the 4th of July? Remember your "tryouts" with the older boys pitching to see what you could do? I might have pitched to you. Amongst other things, I was supposed to throw 2 balls at you below waist level to see what you'd do. Sorry 'bout that, just following orders.

bcaz
10-20-2004, 10:27 PM
Camilio:

First, I apologize for both of us to the Red Sox fans for hijacking this thread to Pittsburgh 44 years ago. Kudos to the Sox and congratulations to all you long-suffering fans, this coming from a Mets fan who bleeds (Giant orange and Dodger blue) Mets colors from every artery, vein and cappilary.

We lived on Sunnyhill Drive, not far from Washington Road, and I played ball behind the school and on (aptly named) Spalding Circle, and, since I was a little kid, in a lot of back yards. We were only there from August 1960 to July 1961, when we moved to Connecticut. My older sister and I (my brother was an infant) remember it as a wonderful time in our lives. A great neighborhood and town ... I also remember, given the time, the high consciousness surrounding the centinnial observance of Lincoln's election and the start of the Civil War. We played our war games wearing those weird Civil War hats and it struck me how fiercely proud Pennsylvania kids were to wear the Union blue.

Camilio Pascual
10-21-2004, 03:19 AM
Camilio:

We lived on Sunnyhill Drive, not far from Washington Road, and I played ball behind the school and on (aptly named) Spalding Circle, and, since I was a little kid, in a lot of back yards.

If memory serves, Spalding Circle had a hill, I used to sled down it. We lived about a baseball throw away from each other.

How 'bout them Sox, eh? Enjoyed every minute of the Yanks' defeat, though I didn't understand the point of putting Martinez in. Johnny Damon comes back from the dead!

chad shaver
10-21-2004, 05:08 AM
Hey, Yankees!!!

Who's your daddy?

Brettolius
10-21-2004, 09:34 AM
well, chalk one up for the sox...ONE. our daddy sure ain't the sox,we still OWN you!! go back to the HARBA'!!!

aceindahole2K5
10-21-2004, 10:12 AM
It is a glorius day for Red Sox Nation.........what a comeback.......equivelent to say roddick coming back against federer (one sided rivalry), from down 0-6, 0-6, 0-3, to win in a fifth set tiebreaker in the wimbledon final........

Cruzer
10-21-2004, 10:27 AM
Instead of the hoped for ending after the final out Michael Kay should have said "Yankees Choke!!, Y-Y-Y-Y-Y-Y-Y-Y-Yankees Choke!!

chad shaver
10-21-2004, 10:39 AM
well, chalk one up for the sox...ONE. our daddy sure ain't the sox,we still OWN you!! go back to the HARBA'!!!

I'm not from Boston.

The Red Sox are going the World Series and the Yankees are going...home :twisted: . You may OWN the BoSox, but I think we went a long way to pay off the mortgage.

Hope the Yankees have a nice, LONG vacation. :lol:

Brettolius
10-21-2004, 11:21 AM
we can still joke, can't we? :D c'mon chad!!

chad shaver
10-21-2004, 11:26 AM
I was just joking. Notice the :lol: on the end? Trust me...it's ALL in fun. :)

Joe Average
10-23-2004, 12:45 PM
My concern is that this is the Red Sox' last best chance. This isn't the start of a dynasty. Pedro won't be re-signed next season. He's asking Curt Schilling money, and he's really just a #3 starter who can't beat the Yankees. $13 million a year for the next four years? I doubt it. He's going to Anaheim. On the other hand, the Yankees will improve. They'll add Carlos Beltran, Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano or Eric Milton. Or all of the above.
And Giambi comes back.

As for "Who's your daddy?" Yankee merchandise accounts for 1/3rd of MLB sales. And one-tenth of this year's record MLB attendance is from Yankees' games. The Yankees are everybody's daddy.

chad shaver
10-23-2004, 12:50 PM
As for "Who's your daddy?" Yankee merchandise accounts for 1/3rd of MLB sales. And one-tenth of this year's record MLB attendance is from Yankees' games. The Yankees are everybody's daddy.

Attendance and merchandise has no bearing on who won the last 4 games of the series.... The Yankees fans chanted it, then watched their team get spanked four games in a row. The Red Sox may not be their daddy, but they sure took the belt to them. :twisted:

Phil
10-25-2004, 02:41 AM
I'll just be happy if the sickening Red Sox fans FINALLY STFU, but after this, they NEVER will. This Boston team is TOUGH, but it's not "Great". They won't win another one for another 87 years.

chad shaver
10-25-2004, 05:13 AM
So, Phil, is that what SOUR GRAPES smells like? Just kidding, I had to do that.

What is sickening about the Red Sox fans, and is it worse than the Yankees fans throwing things at the BoSox during the game?

Phil
10-25-2004, 05:28 AM
No, Chad, it isn't worse. Yankee fans-most of whom, it seems, come from NJ-are some of the worst trash in baseball. I have no problem in saying that! I LIKE the Yankees, but I'm not a fan. MY team has had 12 straight sub-.500 seasons. I'm more of a fan of the GAME rather than any particular team, but I do have a soft spot for the NL. Go Cards.

chad shaver
10-25-2004, 04:14 PM
Phil, just so you know, (in case you thought I was)I wasn't bashing you.

I have to go with the Braves, myself. I hear it all the time how I pull for them because they win, but I was a fan when they were really bad. I even remember the line-up of the first Braves game I saw. Remember guys like Bob Horner, Bob Watson, Brett Butler (in his rookie year...somebody's getting old).

So who is your team? I'm too lazy to go look it up. And what do the BoSox fans do that irk you so?

Phil
10-25-2004, 06:13 PM
Chad - Don't worry-bashing doesn't bother me...don't get me started on the Braves! But the fans aren't so bad anymore, because there ARE NONE! One of the few teams in pro sports that cannot fill its stadium for playoff games. If you lived in Atlanta you might go, but the natives don't care. And it's not like there's actually so much more to DO in that city. I remember Horner, Watson, Butler, but can you remember Ralph Garr, Davey Johnson, Don Sutton, Hammerin' Hank? You think YOU'RE getting old?!?

I grew up with the Pirates, but I'm not so much a fan of them either-not anymore, with the line-up changing every year. Their current management blackmailed the state into building a new stadium at taxpayers' expense, and promised to build a winner. They then proceeded to get rid of any decent player that came along, because they won't pay their players. That team is a perennial celler dweller now. If I had a few hundred million to throw away I'd buy 'em and turn them into WINNERS. Red Sox fans tend to be dogmatic, simpering, whinners-and violent too. They're as bad as Yankee fans-go to the stadium-I've been to both Fenway and Yankee-and you're LUCKY these days if you don't sit behind (or worse, in front of) some drunken slob yelling and motherf.....g the visiting (and some home) players for the entire game. It wasn't always that way. These underachieving jerks don't have much joy in life, and think that buying a ticket gives them the RIGHT and the POWER to say or do anything they want. To me, loudmouth a-holes should NOT be a necessary part of the baseball experience. Times get meaner and so do the fans.