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htazn15
07-09-2007, 01:16 PM
I decided today that I want to be ripped and really fit. I went out and bought a bench and some weight plates. I having trouble finding a routine. Which is more beneficial, working on a different part each day or working on all part each day take a break the next day? I'm going to start benching at 70lbs, how much should i move up lbs each week? How long before i see results? Should i take whey protein? Should i take cretin? What other stuff can i take?

other info
age 16
weight 130
height 5"6
body fat 13%
max bench 135lbs
max squat 185lbs

I've never lift weight before so I don't know if the maxes is that good yet but it will improve. Thanks to anyone that helps.

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
07-09-2007, 03:58 PM
I don't know if you should bench at 16 man, you'll stunt your growth. Wait until you've stopped growing, at 5'6 you most likely will continue to grow.

It's better at a young age to practice with your body weight (pushups, chinups, pullups). Once you've stopped growing at 19-20, then you should start benchign and lifting weights. Also run on the treadmill and do high-intensity cardio workouts 4-5 times a week as well. I believed being "fit" at your age is better than being "ripped".

OrangeOne
07-09-2007, 04:23 PM
I decided today that I want to be ripped and really fit. I went out and bought a bench and some weight plates. I having trouble finding a routine. Which is more beneficial, working on a different part each day or working on all part each day take a break the next day? I'm going to start benching at 70lbs, how much should i move up lbs each week? How long before i see results? Should i take whey protein? Should i take cretin? What other stuff can i take?


If you've never lifted before, stick to a full-body program 2 days a week to start with. There's a zillion threads on here suggesting appropriate programs, rest, etc etc, as there is on the web in general too. You should have NO trouble finding beginner weights routines.

Taking stuff is almost irrelevant if you have a good diet (and if you don't, then do research there too). Never take anything you haven't researched, and if you can't spell it, I'm guessing you don't know anything about it!

Remember: correct form / technique is infinitely more important than whatever the weight is that you lift.

htazn15
07-09-2007, 04:35 PM
Taking stuff is almost irrelevant if you have a good diet (and if you don't, then do research there too). Never take anything you haven't researched, and if you can't spell it, I'm guessing you don't know anything about it! Cretin= Creatine I've researched it. I'm not going to take I'll just take protein instead. Can it really stunt your growth?

fps
07-10-2007, 05:56 AM
I don't know if you should bench at 16 man, you'll stunt your growth. Wait until you've stopped growing, at 5'6 you most likely will continue to grow.

It's better at a young age to practice with your body weight (pushups, chinups, pullups). Once you've stopped growing at 19-20, then you should start benchign and lifting weights. Also run on the treadmill and do high-intensity cardio workouts 4-5 times a week as well. I believed being "fit" at your age is better than being "ripped".

Yep, some of the junior GB rowers i know weren't allowed to start weights tils 17-18, even then not full-on.
Male ballet dancers too (strong as hell) don't start hitting the weights til 18, because if you bulk up too early you'll stunt ur growth. Light weights with plenty of reps should be ok, as well as pushups crunches etc. Also, start slowly! There's nothing quite like an overly huge first weights session to put you out of action for a fortnight! Gd luck!

chess9
07-10-2007, 06:17 AM
REPEAT AFTER ME:

LIFTING DOES NOT STUNT YOUR GROWTH, regardless of age.

Breath, relax, and move on.

Don't lift by yourself. Bad idea. You are a beginner and don't have a clue. This scenario has injury written all over it.

-Robert

t.vo408
07-10-2007, 06:33 AM
What about lifting abnormally heavy weights at a very young age? I've heard big numbers can damage growth plates and affect growth.

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
07-10-2007, 07:13 AM
don't listen to chess9, LIFTING WEIGHTS CAN MOST CERTAINLY STUNT YOUR GROWTH if your young. Ask anyone, and they'll say this as well. I'm no expert, but this is common knowledge.

chess9
07-10-2007, 07:28 AM
If you do a search in this forum you will find this discussed, replete with cites to authoritative sources. Furthermore, if you google the question, you will find the truth. If you are lazy you will repeat COMMON KNOWLEDGE, which is usually dead wrong. LOL....

I don't advocate 8 year olds benching 200 pounds and I never said that. Younger children are best off with a variety of sports and some bodyweight training. BUT, that doesn't mean that lifting will damage their growth plates. This has been debunked many times, but persists because the AAP until about 10 years ago lept to the conclusion that lifting was bad for pre-pubertal kids. I am seeing young kids in my gym every day and some of them lift more than I do! We have a girl who is about 14 and is stronger than most of the men I play tennis with. Why? Because she has been lifting since age FOUR. Her father was an NPC guy and is huge and very strong.

-Robert

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
07-10-2007, 07:57 AM
chess9, why don't you do a search? Ask any pediatrician doctor and they'll say that lifting is bad for kids. Why do you think most magazines tell younger athlethes to train with their bodyweight? Maybe because lifting is BAD FOR THEM?

btw, lifting weights starting at age four is just stupid. I'm sure that girl has stunted her growth by now. Just because she is stronger than most men you play tennis with doesn't mean much. Tennis requires core strength, leg strength, flexibility, and a certain degree of arm strength. Bulking up too much in the arms can negatively impact your swing, which can hurt your game.

chess9
07-10-2007, 08:17 AM
Should kids jump, TacoWaco? The forces from a service motion alone are about 3-6 times a kid's bodweight all focused on the feet and toes. I was high jumping at a very young age, and lifting at age 8. I'm the tallest man in my family and the only athlete.

Here's one opinion, but you will never find a single study demonstrating that lifting will damage a kid's growth plates. It's all myth.

"It's seems this myth will never die, but I will try again to kill it. The whole notion of growth being stunted by weight lifting is pure myth. It didn't stunt the growth of David Robinson, Karl Malone, Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Vick, etc. They all started lifting in their early teens, and all have gone on to be well over 6' tall and star in some professional sports. Dave Draper and Arnold Schwarzenegger started lifting very young and both are 6'1" or even taller. So the answer is no, weightlifting does not stunt height growth, or any other kind of growth. There is no scientific evidence to support such ideas and, in fact, books such as the Russian, School of Height, suggest that weight training may even stimulate growth. The latest weight training studies done on teens showed only positive effects without any doubt. You should also know that some activities, such as running and jumping create forces on the body that are six to eight times one's body weight. Not only that proper weight training not stunt growth, it allows teens to grow up with stronger muscles and bones. "

-Robert

ShooterMcMarco
07-10-2007, 10:02 AM
Look for a program by Mark Rippetoe where you workout 3 times a week and add weight each time (2 1/2 lb plates per side for a total of 5 pounds, or you can make your own micro weights of 1/4 and 1/2 pound). For beginners a linear progression works very well. Its only when you become intermediate to advanced where periodization comes into play.

chess9
07-10-2007, 10:18 AM
More information for those who rely upon common sense rather than FACTS:

"You'll be fine. Here are some good studies showing weightlifting doesn't have a negative effect on growth plates:

"Increased bone density in teenagers, male or female submited to resistance traning or other sports (1,2,3,4,5,14,15).

Resistance training is indicated to healthy subjects of all ages (6).


Resistance training indicated to children above the age of 6 (8).

Properly supervised weight traning doesn't pose higher injury risk to children than any other sport(7).

Recent evidence suggests that strenght traning and consequent strength increases help to prevent injuies to the growth plates (9,10,12,13). Go figure.....


Increased height in girls that are physically active (11), not weightlifting but I just threw it in too....


And with all this research not a single word about possible concerns that weight training might stunt growth in teenagers.

All the concerns raised about damages to growth plates are related to high impact sports and this doesn't include weightlifting.

1-Effects of high-intensity resistance training on bone mineral density in young male powerlifters.

Tsuzuku S, Ikegami Y, Yabe K.

Department of Epidemiology, National Institute for Longevity Sciences, 36-3 Gengo, Morioka-cho, Obu-city, Aichi pref, 474-8522 Japan.

The effects of high-intensity resistance training on bone mineral density (BMD) and its relationship to strength were investigated. Lumbar spine (L2-L4), proximal femur, and whole body BMD were measured in 10 male powerlifters and 11 controls using dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry (DXA). There were significant differences in lumbar spine and whole body BMD between powerlifters and controls, but not in proximal femur BMD. A significant correlation was found between lumbar spine BMD and powerlifting performance. These results suggest that high-intensity resistance training is effective in increasing the lumbar spine and whole body BMD.

2-[Exercise increases bone mass in children but only insignificantly in adults]

[Article in Swedish]

Karlsson M.

Ortopediska kliniken, Universitetssjukhuset MAS, Malmo. magnus.karlsson@orto.mas.lu.se

Data supporting the notion that exercise during growth built a stronger skeleton is compelling. Exercise during growth, especially during the pre-pubertal years, increases bone mineral density (BMD) and perhaps also bone size, each independently conferring bone strength. In adulthood, exercise at best halts bone loss or increases BMD by a few percentage points, an increase of questionable biological significance. High lifelong work load and high leisure time activity level are associated with high BMD. The Achilles heel of exercise is its cessation. Most BMD benefits achieved by exercise during growth are lost with cessation of exercise. Exercise at a lower level, after a period of high intense activity, may retain residual BMD benefits into old age. A reduced rate of fragility fractures in the population could perhaps be achieved by promoting a physically active lifestyle with lifelong high activity level during work and leisure time, leading to high BMD and fewer fractures.

3-Bone mineral density in adolescent female athletes: relationship to exercise type and muscle strength.

Duncan CS, Blimkie CJ, Cowell CT, Burke ST, Briody JN, Howman-Giles R.

University of Sydney, Sydney, Australia.

PURPOSE: This study investigated the influence of different exercise types and differences in anatomical distribution of mechanical loading patterns on bone mineral density (BMD) in elite female cyclists, runners, swimmers, triathletes, and controls (N = 15 per group). Associations between leg strength and BMD were also examined. METHODS: Areal BMD (g x cm(-2)) was assessed by duel-energy x-ray absorptiometry (DXA) (total body (TB), lumbar spine (LS), femoral neck (FN), legs, and arms). Right knee flexion and extension strength was measured using a Cybex Norm isokinetic dynamometer at 60 degrees x s(-1). RESULTS: Runners had significantly higher unadjusted TB, LS, FN, and leg BMD than controls (P < 0.05); higher TB, FN, and leg BMD than swimmers (P < 0.05); and greater leg BMD than cyclists (P < 0.05). Absolute knee extension strength was significantly (P < 0.01) correlated (0.33 < or = r < or = 0.44) with TB, FN, LS, and leg BMD for all groups combined. Weaker but still significant correlations (0.28 < or = r < or = 0.33) existed for normalized (per leg lean tissue mass) knee extension strength and all BMD sites, except FN BMD. There were no significant correlations between absolute or normalized knee flexion strength and any of the BMD variables. Absolute knee extension strength was entered as the second independent predictor for LS and leg BMD in stepwise multiple linear regression analysis (MLRA), accounting for increments of 4% and 12%, respectively, in total explained variation. CONCLUSION: We conclude that running, a weight bearing exercise, is associated with larger site-specific BMD than swimming or cycling, that the generalized anatomical distribution of loads in triathlon appears not to significantly enhance total body BMD status, and that knee extension strength is only a weak correlate and independent predictor of BMD in adolescent females.

4-Resistance training and bone mineral density in adolescent females.

Nichols DL, Sanborn CF, Love AM.

Institute for Women's Health, Texas Woman's University, Denton, Texas 76204, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To examine the effects of 15 months of resistance training on bone mineral density (BMD) in female adolescents (aged 14 to 17 years). STUDY DESIGN: Participants were randomly assigned to either a training (n = 46) or control group (n = 21). BMD and body composition were measured by using dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry. Strength was assessed by means of one-repetition maximums for the leg press and bench press. The exercise group trained 30 to 45 minutes a day, 3 days per week, using 15 different resistance exercises. Control participants remained sedentary (<2 hours of exercise per week). RESULTS: Leg strength increased significantly (40%) in the exercise group, but there were no changes in the control group. Femoral neck BMD increased significantly in the training group (1.035 to 1.073 g/cm(2), P <.01) but not in the control group (1.034 to 1.048 g/cm(2)). No significant changes were seen in either group in lumbar spine BMD (1.113 to 1.142 g/cm(2) and 1.158 to 1.190 g/cm(2), respectively) or total body BMD (1.103 to 1.134 g/cm(2) and 1.111 to 1.129 g/cm(2), respectively). CONCLUSION: Resistance training is a potential method for increasing bone density in adolescents, although such a program would be best done as part of the school curriculum.

5-[Physical activity in children and adolescents in relation to growth and development]

[Article in Norwegian]

Meen HD.

helgedm@brage.idrettshs.no

BACKGROUND: Physical activity may influence the performance and health of children and adolescents. The purpose of this article is to give a review of present knowledge in this field. MATERIAL AND METHODS: Literature was searched using Medline and the Norwegian University of Sports library. RESULTS: Related to body mass, boys have an aerobic capacity like young adults. Girls show a reduction from prepuberty until adulthood. Their trainability seems to be lower than in adults. Anaerobic capacity and muscle strength are lower than in adults, but increase during puberty, especially in boys. The trainability is good at all ages. There are small differences in performance between boys and girls before puberty. Physical activity has favourable metabolic effects and influences the development of fat tissue, skeleton and probably tendons, ligaments and cartilage. INTERPRETATION: Physical activity is important for performance and health during the growing years and later. It is a factor in the prevention of artheriosclerotic disease, hypertension, obesity, diabetes type 2, some types of cancers, osteoporosis, and muscular problems. Specialisation in sports should normally be postponed until late puberty, even by those who aim at high performance.

-Robert

chess9
07-10-2007, 10:20 AM
more:
"9-trength training and the immature athlete: an overview.

Metcalf JA, Roberts SO.

The developing musculoskeletal structures of the immature athlete are uniquely susceptible to injury, particularly at the physes. These growth plates are present in arm and leg bones, and some may not close until the late teen years. Early literature suggested that weight training might be inappropriate for these athletes. However, recent evidence suggests that, properly done, strength/resistance training may not only be safe, it may also help reduce the risk of injury for the young athletes. Nurses are often called upon to advise coaches of formal and community athletic programs, and need to know the underlying physiology of developing bone and muscle as well as the current recommendations related to training."

-Robert

chess9
07-10-2007, 11:13 AM
The dangers of lifting alone by a newbie teenager:

http://www.click2houston.com/news/13652898/detail.html

Very sad stuff, indeed. I hope the OP gets the message.

-Robert

fps
07-10-2007, 01:21 PM
chess9, we may not be speaking at crossed purposes, since you're highlighting the importance of supervised, correct training, which is absolutely right. Going for too much at too early in age is undoubtedly bad for you. At 16 you shouldn't be going flat out, you should be building muscle through repetition at lighter weights, not maxing your lifts, because especially if you're just starting out as the OP is, you will be susceptible to injury if you do too much too soon, especially if unsupervised as the OP assumedly will be.

flamekid992000
07-10-2007, 02:22 PM
That is the reason i starting bench at half my max. I asked my doctor about it and he told me that as long as i eat right, sleep right, and exercise right i have nothing to worry about. He also told me not to take creatine.

tricky
07-10-2007, 02:36 PM
It's more likely that marathon running and sports involving joint impact forces and jumping would damage the bones and growth plates than weight lifting. Compression forces are far greater in explosive sports than in safe weight training.

Look for a program by Mark Rippetoe where you workout 3 times a week and add weight each time (2 1/2 lb plates per side for a total of 5 pounds, or you can make your own micro weights of 1/4 and 1/2 pound).

Rippletoe's the way to go. If you want a proper foundation for weight training and all that good stuff, definitely look into his book. It's recommended just about everywhere.

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Programming-Strength-Training-Rippetoe/dp/0976805413

Truth is, at 16 years old, best thing is to get a solid foundation. You'll respond to almost any kind of sound strength training. Better to get a good sense of workout programs and solid exercise technique before overthinking the other stuff.

chess9
07-10-2007, 02:41 PM
chess9, we may not be speaking at crossed purposes, since you're highlighting the importance of supervised, correct training, which is absolutely right. Going for too much at too early in age is undoubtedly bad for you. At 16 you shouldn't be going flat out, you should be building muscle through repetition at lighter weights, not maxing your lifts, because especially if you're just starting out as the OP is, you will be susceptible to injury if you do too much too soon, especially if unsupervised as the OP assumedly will be.


Exactly right. I just objected to two issues. One being training alone. It's just not a good idea, and may not be very beneficial if he gets injured doing lifts improperly. The other is this canard about heavy lifting damaging growth plates.

But, I do NOT recommend heavy lifting for young kids anyway. The OP's approach is good, in terms of the amount of weight.

-Robert

order
07-10-2007, 02:56 PM
I think rather than taking advice from us random people on the internet we should use an articles from websites with a .edu domain, one of which was written by people from a school of Medecine.

http://www.med.miami.edu/communications/som_news/index.asp?id=769

http://www2.austincc.edu/shopland/Weight-Workout%20Mythology.htm

http://www.hss.edu/conditions_14511.asp?refName=Sports+for+Youths&refUrl=conditions_9033.asp

Also, before anyone says anything about copyright, the article with a copyright of 1999 says thesame thing as the one that was written in 2006 and that is that lifting weights does not stunt your growth. :)
As further proof, I was 5'11'' 2 years ago and did quite a bit of weight lifting. Now, I'm about 6'2''.

Ano
07-10-2007, 04:36 PM
chess9, why don't you do a search? Ask any pediatrician doctor and they'll say that lifting is bad for kids. Why do you think most magazines tell younger athlethes to train with their bodyweight? Maybe because lifting is BAD FOR THEM?


One of the biggest myths about weight lifting is that it stunts your growth. No studies have ever been shown that lifting weights stunts or inhibits growth.

But, as with any exercise program, if you do too much too soon, physical problems can occur no matter how old the person doing the exercise is. The most important aspects when training as a teenager are supervision, exercise technique, light weights, and high repetitions in the 15 and even 20 rep range.

Supervision is key. The risk of injury is real but it is inversely proportional to proper technique and supervision. Reported weight lifting injuries in children range from fractures, spondylolysis, meniscal tears, and herniated disks to dislocations and cardiac rupture. The vast majority of these injuries occur in kids working out by themselves, without supervision.

For healthy children who are taught proper lifting form by qualified trainers or therapists and who work out in a supervised, noncompetitive environment, the risk of injury is very low and the potential for benefits is great.

If I were asked :"At what age would you say children can safely strength train?"

I will reply : " "What's "safely?" With me supervising them or with their parents supervising them? The age of inception to strength training should be influenced by the quality of the advice."

So I agree with chess9 and tricky.

Ano
07-10-2007, 04:40 PM
Rippletoe's the way to go. If you want a proper foundation for weight training and all that good stuff, definitely look into his book. It's recommended just about everywhere.

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Programming-Strength-Training-Rippetoe/dp/0976805413



That is a good book. I also recommend another book by Rippetoe, STARTING STRENGTH.

I own both books.

GuyClinch
07-13-2007, 05:22 AM
I suspect that the steroids often taken by serious HS weightlifters might stunt growth. That's probably where the myth comes from...IMHO. I remember back in HS we all knew this heavy lifter who was flat out HUGE but really quite short at the age of 14 or so and never got any taller by the time he was 18. It's almost universally thought this guy was on roids..

Pete

toP SPin GEEk
06-08-2008, 09:59 PM
I decided today that I want to be ripped and really fit. I went out and bought a bench and some weight plates. I having trouble finding a routine. Which is more beneficial, working on a different part each day or working on all part each day take a break the next day? I'm going to start benching at 70lbs, how much should i move up lbs each week? How long before i see results? Should i take whey protein? Should i take cretin? What other stuff can i take?

other info
age 16
weight 130
height 5"6
body fat 13%
max bench 135lbs
max squat 185lbs

I've never lift weight before so I don't know if the maxes is that good yet but it will improve. Thanks to anyone that helps.

haha, he got banned