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chess9
07-27-2007, 02:22 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/07/27/marijuana.psychosis.ap/index.html

Don't smoke anything.

-Robert

dave333
07-27-2007, 03:32 AM
Shouldn't that be basic common sense?

chess9
07-27-2007, 05:43 AM
Shouldn't that be basic common sense?

By now, it should be, Dave. Sadly, it isn't common, though it makes sense. I've seen lots of lives lost to drugs, which is one reason I don't do them, and rarely drink. With an alky father and brother who did drugs I've seen how low drugs can take the brightest and best.

-Robert

richw76
07-27-2007, 12:12 PM
By now, it should be, Dave. Sadly, it isn't common, though it makes sense. I've seen lots of lives lost to drugs, which is one reason I don't do them, and rarely drink. With an alky father and brother who did drugs I've seen how low drugs can take the brightest and best.

-Robert

Marijuna is illigal, and you can go to jail or get in trouble, lose your job, and it's not worth it. If you smoke to much it will make you stupid, and lazy. That being said what a load a crap. Marijuna is no more a GW drug than alchohol, or retlin. It's also no more toxic. If you could pole college graduates between 25-35 and they were honest many would say they smoked pot at least once a month in college, and that's it..... oh wait Zanax made phizer almost a billion dollars last year..... never mind.

richw76
07-27-2007, 12:18 PM
By now, it should be, Dave. Sadly, it isn't common, though it makes sense. I've seen lots of lives lost to drugs, which is one reason I don't do them, and rarely drink. With an alky father and brother who did drugs I've seen how low drugs can take the brightest and best.

-Robert

and yeah chess9 I understand how you feel. I've had close and distant family members get into drugs and or alchohol problems.
The only problem i see with specious studies are it's like the 20's or 30's film "Reefer Madness" people that want to try it are gonna dismiss it as propoganda, and the people that would never try it get on the band wagon.
It also gives some people an excuse to further look down on teh mentally ill since "they did it to themselves".... ok I'm off my soap box :-)

edmondsm
07-27-2007, 01:09 PM
Please. All that article told me was that there is a very small, but increased, risk of psycosis among pot smokers. There also is if you work at the Post Office does that mean people should stop delivering mail?

Lindros13
07-27-2007, 01:10 PM
Marijuna is illigal, and you can go to jail or get in trouble, lose your job, and it's not worth it. If you smoke to much it will make you stupid, and lazy. That being said what a load a crap. Marijuna is no more a GW drug than alchohol, or retlin. It's also no more toxic. If you could pole college graduates between 25-35 and they were honest many would say they smoked pot at least once a month in college, and that's it..... oh wait Zanax made phizer almost a billion dollars last year..... never mind.

I think marijuana is a gateway drug that will lead kids into trying other dangerous drugs. While I don't think of alcohol in this manner, perhaps it is. But the focus of this discussion is on marijuana and not alcohol. Again, I think it's a gateway drug, and regardless if it doesn't directly correlate to mental disorders, it can have dangerous effects.

tricky
07-27-2007, 01:22 PM
FWIW, studies have suggested that it's alcohol, not the jane, that's gateway. But, yeah, the only thing you should smoke are brisket and ribs.

richw76
07-27-2007, 02:09 PM
I think marijuana is a gateway drug that will lead kids into trying other dangerous drugs. While I don't think of alcohol in this manner, perhaps it is. But the focus of this discussion is on marijuana and not alcohol. Again, I think it's a gateway drug, and regardless if it doesn't directly correlate to mental disorders, it can have dangerous effects.

ummm, if your talking high school drop out types or kids with pre-existing emotional problems that are already at risk; I agree. But from what I saw in college. I er... knew of many kids that experimented regularly with the Jane. Now they are engineers, doctors, lawyers. And maybe every 5 years if someone has some at a New years eve party or something they may have a taste.

Again, drugs, the legal ones and the illegal ones are bad, poison, toxic to your body. They also tend to permanently change your brain chemistry.

FWIW, studies have suggested that it's alcohol, not the jane, that's gateway. But, yeah, the only thing you should smoke are brisket and ribs.

I agree 200% on the brisket and ribs part, yum. Pork ribs the only drug I need :-)

tricky
07-27-2007, 02:18 PM
It's been shown that St Louis ribs smoked for hours on hickory and applewood leads to impairment of judgement. Some people have reporting seeing colours, but most likely it was due to sauce getting all over the place.

Other drug studies also show that Kansas City people think Tennesseans are on crack because they use vinegar as their sauce. ;)

El Diablo
07-29-2007, 02:01 PM
Marijuana, alcohol, potato chips, vitamin E....all shown to be not too good for you if used in excess. And none shown to be harmful if used occasionally. The study you cite does not meet any reasonable scientific criteria, being retrospective and pooled data. It merely establishes correlation but not causation, and those of us in psychiatry see this correlation frequently, wherein lonely schizoid characters turn to a variety of drugs to fill the void in their lives. But this certainly does not indicate that the drug is the cause of their psychosis.

Swissv2
07-29-2007, 02:09 PM
Marijuana, alcohol, potato chips, vitamin E....all shown to be not too good for you if used in excess. And none shown to be harmful if used occasionally. The study you cite does not meet any reasonable scientific criteria, being retrospective and pooled data. It merely establishes correlation but not causation, and those of us in psychiatry see this correlation frequently, wherein lonely schizoid characters turn to a variety of drugs to fill the void in their lives. But this certainly does not indicate that the drug is the cause of their psychosis.


But the article suggest there is a study to be released that fullfills the criteria of scientific analyis and makes a connection between the drug and psychosis.

chess9
07-29-2007, 03:33 PM
I have no doubt that smoking marijuana is bad for you:

1. You play lousy tennis all toked out; :)
2. Sex is damned near impossible. (I tried in the '60's, though my experience is admittedly very limited.)
3. Smoking makes you cough. If you trust your body to give you any useful information, I would say this is one useful bit of information.
4. Smoking constricts the blood vessels, which impairs judgment, and makes you stupid.
5. El Diablo says it isn't bad, so it must be horrid. :) j/k

-Robert

ollinger
07-29-2007, 06:47 PM
Stick to cigarettes. There are data suggesting it can help prevent Alzherimer's Disease -- if you live long enough. Makes some sense, actually; receptors for acetylcholine (the neurotransmitter of greatest interest in Alzheimer's) are of muscarinic and nicotinic types.

GuyClinch
07-30-2007, 08:27 AM
Correlational studies suck. How do we know that crazy people don't like to smoke more pot? Rather then pot makes you crazy..

It's just like those new 'diet soda" studies - oh diet soda makes you fat! Maybe being fat makes you likely to drink diet soda. <g>

Pete

richw76
07-30-2007, 09:25 AM
Correlational studies suck. How do we know that crazy people don't like to smoke more pot? Rather then pot makes you crazy..

It's just like those new 'diet soda" studies - oh diet soda makes you fat! Maybe being fat makes you likely to drink diet soda. <g>

Pete

I've never read that diet soda makes you fat. There is strong biological evidence that it makes you more hungry. The reason. You drink the diet soda, and it's sweet so your body says Hey he just ate something sweet start releasing insulin to counter the sugar.... then the sugar never comes, and since you have this extra insulin your blood sugar crashes, and you be come hungry......

And on the pot thing. Safest thing to do, don't smoke-out because like chess said you wouldn't cough if it was good for you(er, vaporizer). If you smoke to much it will make you dump, and lazy. Problem is due to differences in people, and lack of research we have no idea what "Too much" is, so just don't do it.

My only point like chess in the 60's... maybe. Alot of people do pot, drink, and take xanax.... hopefully not at the same time. And have almost no negative effects, and have great lives.

Some are 40 and live in their parents basement. It's not worth the risk.

But research and articles like this are pointless because most people see rigth through them like the previous posters. And if you are someone that deosn't smoke, you still want. If you do smoke you'll dismiss it, since it's basically a waste of paper.

Leon22
07-30-2007, 04:46 PM
To me if it isn't affecting in you in your responsibilities and you are letting the people down around you then it has become a bad habit.

It is like that for almost any substance on the planet, mind altering or not on. Every single chemical will have a point where it becomes unhealthy.

The Gorilla
07-30-2007, 06:50 PM
Is their anything wrong with eating pot?It won't harm your lungs that way so there would be no harmful effects wouldthere?, (compared to alcohal for example)

YonexDude
07-30-2007, 07:14 PM
Is their anything wrong with eating pot?It won't harm your lungs that way so there would be no harmful effects wouldthere?, (compared to alcohal for example)

eating it doesn't do anything. it's fat-soluble so it would have to be melted in butter or something else with a lot of lipids in order for it to be absorbed into your body when you eat it.

if done, there would not be the harmful effects of smoke inhalation, but there would be the "harmful" effects of THC.

that being said, this article is just repeating what some people have been saying for years. Its all circumstantial evidence twisted around.

From the article:

"The researchers said they couldn't prove that marijuana use itself increases the risk of psychosis"

"There could be something else about marijuana users, "like their tendency to use other drugs or certain personality traits, that could be causing the psychoses," Zammit said."



sooooo, they conducted a study and came to the conclusion that people with psychosis have or do smoke pot-- and they completely disregarded all other factors in the peoples' lives, like family history, alcohol abuse, hard drug abuse, and upbringing.... very concise and informative

lude popper
07-30-2007, 07:29 PM
If Hitler was a stoner and Tojo an opium freak, their biggest crimes would have been a bad case of the munchies.

you want to see a bad drug? go to Louisiana and find a redneck on Jack Daniels or rush limbaugh.

The Gorilla
07-30-2007, 07:34 PM
I thought people ate it in the form of brownies?

Leon22
07-30-2007, 08:44 PM
Even smoking it is maybe not as bad as people think. Mass study including cigarette smokers, pot smokers and non-smokers showed that the smokers were at the most elevated risk for lung cancer and the marijuana and non-smokers were at around the same risk. The study was funded by the Heart and Lung association with the expectation that marijuana smoke would be worse then cigarette, they were shocked by the results.

Researcher's are investigating the possibility that the THC may act as a protective factor against cancer. In mice, malignant tumor sizes were reduced by treating them with THC.

It's not that the smoking is good for you, but a similar effect that we see in red whine. The alcohol in red whine is bad for your heart, but the other chemicals in the red whine counter the bad effect and even provide you with further protection. With marijuana the smoke is bad for you, but the THC counters the bad effect.

Obviously these are preliminary studies for the most part and many replications controlling for different factors must be done. But, just remember in biology, intuition isn't always right.

richw76
07-31-2007, 06:12 AM
Even smoking it is maybe not as bad as people think. Mass study including cigarette smokers, pot smokers and non-smokers showed that the smokers were at the most elevated risk for lung cancer and the marijuana and non-smokers were at around the same risk. The study was funded by the Heart and Lung association with the expectation that marijuana smoke would be worse then cigarette, they were shocked by the results.

Researcher's are investigating the possibility that the THC may act as a protective factor against cancer. In mice, malignant tumor sizes were reduced by treating them with THC.

It's not that the smoking is good for you, but a similar effect that we see in red whine. The alcohol in red whine is bad for your heart, but the other chemicals in the red whine counter the bad effect and even provide you with further protection. With marijuana the smoke is bad for you, but the THC counters the bad effect.

Obviously these are preliminary studies for the most part and many replications controlling for different factors must be done. But, just remember in biology, intuition isn't always right.

As for lung effects. Pot has less chemicals/additives/toxins than cigarettes. No one could smoke 20 joints a day for 10-20 years like smokers. And their are more effective ways of injesting, like the use of vaporizers along with pot with higher thc content. You get less impact than playing tennis on a smoggy day.

There's a very fine line because by giving info you don't want it to sound like you are advocating marijuna use. Truth is outside of legitimate medical need,for chemo patients, or glycoma etc no one is better off for smoking pot. Some may look back and say man if I only wasn't so high maybe I could have _blah, blah, whatever. And again if you get caught the consiquences either with your parents or authorities just isn't worth it.

chess9
07-31-2007, 07:10 AM
<cough, cough>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070731/ts_nm/britain_cannabis_dc

-Robert

WBF
07-31-2007, 07:27 AM
I've come to the realization that you're going to have liars or people with ulterior motives on both sides.

GRANITECHIEF
07-31-2007, 02:52 PM
<cough, cough>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070731/ts_nm/britain_cannabis_dc

-Robert

Do people actually have a whole one to themselves or is it more common to share one with several friends. Which would make the comparison to 5 cigs invalid. Not that i would know, just hypothesizing.

tbini87
07-31-2007, 04:01 PM
i pass on grass, all the time.

SirBlend12
04-10-2009, 10:56 AM
Another weed thread...

It's pretty simple. Everyone has an argument of burnout vs. success. Here's how I've honestly found it to work: if they were going nowhere fast, doing nothing, and had nothing to offer BEFORE they smoked, THAT is the reason they stay as such.

Same thing for those who are successful, driven, and ambitious.

I've seen far worse things happen to people who drink. I have yet to watch a friend or acquaintance smoke a little and go crash a car or fall all over themselves or get in a fight for no reason. Oh, they've never puked in my car, either.

Everyone has their nature. Some just like to have a scapegoat for being useless.

Djokovicfan4life
04-10-2009, 11:03 AM
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/land/4801/Mr_Mackey.jpg

ollinger
04-10-2009, 04:20 PM
Brain damage seems to be something of a problem with marijuana. Study published last year in Archives of General Psychiatry showed a 15% reduction in hippocampus (crucial memory/cognition area) volume in people who smoked several joints a day. The authors plan to look at people who smoke less heavily, but over a longer period of time.

LuckyR
04-10-2009, 04:47 PM
Sure drugs like MJ can harm some people's minds. After all, you shouldn't put rocket fuel in a lawnmower engine.

Now in a rocket engine, it works just fine...

chess9
04-10-2009, 05:02 PM
OMG! Now I'm embarrassed. You've revived yet another of my truly insipid threads. ;)

-Robert

drake
04-10-2009, 06:31 PM
Personally I believe it has some good medicinal benefits though if you value your tennis playing abilities, you should pass. The THC content is not healthy for your lungs and you will loose all motivation except to eat (also not good for your tennis fitness).

ollinger
04-10-2009, 07:45 PM
Yes, medicinal benefits if you don't mind your brain shrinking at an alarming rate. Look up the article in the Archives of General Psychiatry, I think it was July or August 2008, and kiss your memory neurons goodbye.

bad_call
04-10-2009, 08:08 PM
Yes, medicinal benefits if you don't mind your brain shrinking at an alarming rate. Look up the article in the Archives of General Psychiatry, I think it was July or August 2008, and kiss your memory neurons goodbye.

what memory? i was born that way so can't blame pot. didn't Reagan have a bad memory too? please don't scare. i still have nightmares from Reefer Madness - the movie.

btw - alcohol is worse for the brain...big dehydrator, not to mention hangovers from excessive consumption.

ollinger
04-10-2009, 08:18 PM
Alcohol may not be worse for the brain -- small doses actually seem beneficial. Several studies in US, Italy and elsewhere in the last few years suggest one or at the most two drinks a day corresponds to a lower rate of dementia as one ages (mechanism uncertain). More than two drinks a day clearly corresponds to higher rate of dementia.

bad_call
04-10-2009, 08:22 PM
Alcohol may not be worse for the brain -- small doses actually seem beneficial. Several studies in US, Italy and elsewhere in the last few years suggest one or at the most two drinks a day corresponds to a lower rate of dementia as one ages (mechanism uncertain). More than two drinks a day clearly corresponds to higher rate of dementia.

there was an article about pot and it's positive effects on dementia. don't know about alcohol. however small doses of alcohol reduce tension. several joints a day will keep one in a cloud as well as several drinks a day.

btw - here's an article from last year.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081119120141.htm

armsty
04-10-2009, 10:18 PM
Don't get stoned and play tennis, usually it's more fun hitting the ball in, after a cone or 3, its more fun seeing how far you can hit it.

richw76
04-11-2009, 05:42 AM
Brain damage seems to be something of a problem with marijuana. Study published last year in Archives of General Psychiatry showed a 15% reduction in hippocampus (crucial memory/cognition area) volume in people who smoked several joints a day. The authors plan to look at people who smoke less heavily, but over a longer period of time.

I find this information completely worthless and silly. It's like using Cirrhosis suffering transients as a control group for the effects of alchohol.

Smoking 5 joints would be like someone drinking a gallon of vodka a day. I don't smoke weed but I think most teenagers are pretty savvy.

Truth is even if it were true and relevant it still wouldn't matter. For most teenagers it's about access and they'll do the drugs that are available if they're gonna do drugs. If not it also doesn't matter.

ollinger
04-11-2009, 10:36 AM
Worthless? How so? When looking for an effect, one always starts with large doses in research to avoid false negatives, then refine one's study later by seeing whether small doses have other less obvious harmful effects. If alot of marijuana is powerful enough to actually reduce the volume of brain tissue dramatically, it's an issue for subsequent study to see if smaller doses cause damage at, say, the cellular or synaptic level. This seems no less worthless to me than studies that established the harm of cigarettes on the lung for example. There as well, very heavy smokers were the initial subjects of study, then studies looked at the effects of much lower doses. (One such study, published several years back, used isotopically labelled material in the cigarettes to determine that smokers who cut back to as few as 5 cigarettes a day were getting just as much toxins as before, because they smoked each cigarette more avidly.) If you've ever studied statistics, you surely understand the value of looking at large doses first to establish whether there is a robust group effect as opposed to more scattered individual effects.

ollinger
04-11-2009, 10:54 AM
....and in what sense are most teenagers "savvy"?

drake
04-11-2009, 12:04 PM
Yes, medicinal benefits if you don't mind your brain shrinking at an alarming rate. Look up the article in the Archives of General Psychiatry, I think it was July or August 2008, and kiss your memory neurons goodbye.


i'm contemplating a combination of 5 Hour Energy for focus and energy boost and a few puffs of hooch so I can immediately forget the last point played.

lawlitssoo1n
04-11-2009, 02:11 PM
LOL, i have a couple of friends who smoke and pop ecstasy and they great in school AND tennis
4 of my friends who smoke pot 2-3 times a week and pop ecstasy every 2-3 weeks got into berkely, USC, UCLA, and pacific

RD 7
04-11-2009, 02:18 PM
Any glue sniffer's out there? Alway been curious about what leads a man to glue.

Gmedlo
04-11-2009, 06:07 PM
Health effects aside, you would be stupid to ignore the crime that occurs in relation to the trafficking of marijuana. There are three major re-distributors of pot at my High School, which is actually quite low for a suburban U.S. neighborhood, and you would not believe what goes on. Most of them break into houses and steal cars to fund their initial supply and further supplies, all the while maintaining their grades (most of these students are in some AP classes and actually do very well in school) so their parents don't get too suspicious. And, as you often see involved with drug sales, two of the three distributors have created gangs, so we now have gang violence and crime in the middle of a suburban neighborhood.

I hate to think of what must go on at the larger levels, because I know that the distributors from my school are getting their pot from other distributors, not growers. I could not use pot in any way, even if it was just given to me, knowing what goes on to get it to me.

ollinger
04-12-2009, 05:02 PM
RD 7
Silly analogy. If you follow the neuroscience literature, particularly concerning brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), the high rate of dementia in people with histories of untreated depression, and the effect of antidepressants in raising BDNF factor levels, you know that it's pretty clear now that antidepressant treatment not only treats the depression but helps prevent dementia in that population. Very different from the effects of marijuana.

chess9
04-12-2009, 05:28 PM
I would de-criminalize possesion with a federal law and license and tax sellers.

That being said, I would also mount a very strong anti-drug campaign. I know it sounds cynical, but this approach is probably the only way to exercise even limited control over the drug.

I have a friend who is a Mensa member, something like 175 IQ, and she smoked cigarrettes for a long time. She often asks, rhetorically of course as she's quit, how she could have been so stupid as to smoke. She now has emphysema. What is so sad is that she could have been a very talented distance runner as she has a very high VO2max.

Take care of your body, it's the only toy you were born with. :)

-Robert

LuckyR
04-14-2009, 08:41 AM
I would de-criminalize possesion with a federal law and license and tax sellers.

That being said, I would also mount a very strong anti-drug campaign. I know it sounds cynical, but this approach is probably the only way to exercise even limited control over the drug.

I have a friend who is a Mensa member, something like 175 IQ, and she smoked cigarrettes for a long time. She often asks, rhetorically of course as she's quit, how she could have been so stupid as to smoke. She now has emphysema. What is so sad is that she could have been a very talented distance runner as she has a very high VO2max.

Take care of your body, it's the only toy you were born with. :)

-Robert


Too bad the majority of life choice decision-making aren't measured by IQ. She sounds like her EQ is hovering around 90...

albino smurf
04-14-2009, 09:42 AM
"If you could pole college graduates "

I'm totally on board with this.

chess9
04-15-2009, 05:43 AM
Too bad the majority of life choice decision-making aren't measured by IQ. She sounds like her EQ is hovering around 90...

Absoutely true! I remember a Chess Life article published in the late 1960's on a study of NY Chess Masters. Out of about 200 masters, only about 5 of them had real full time jobs. :) Anyone who is well outside of the mainstream is probably going to encounter a host of problems. Did you see Susan Boyle, the singer on "Britain's Got Talent"? Here's a woman with a voice like an angel who has been closeted in West Lothian, Scotland (talk about the end of the earth!) and probably heard all those dour Scots tell her how she'd fail. Talent is no substitute for common sense, hard work, and a positive attitude.

-Robert

Joeyg
04-15-2009, 06:42 AM
As a father of three, I would rather my kids smoked a little pot than drink or smoke cigarettes.

bluegrasser
04-15-2009, 07:05 AM
As a father of three, I would rather my kids smoked a little pot than drink or smoke cigarettes.

Hmm, are you really sure about that ? The pot today is ten times stronger than it was in the 60's/70's + I wouldn't want my kid driving on the freeway after smoking a joint :shock:

Kaptain Karl
04-15-2009, 07:16 AM
I'd like to know more about this majority of savvy teenagers, too. (I'm a HS Tennis Coach. I don't see great evidence of this ... and the Tennis Team has the highest team GPA in the school...!)

Like the old TV ad used to say, "There's a reason they call it 'dope'..."

- KK

bad_call
04-15-2009, 08:24 AM
...Like the old TV ad used to say, "There's a reason they call it 'dope'..."

- KK

'dope' has a other definitions. of the slang versions that reference drugs:

"any narcotic or narcotic like drug taken to induce euphoria or satisfy addiction. any illicit drug."

crack, crystal meth, alcohol, etc fall into this slang definition. btw - the list is probably quite long.

LuckyR
04-15-2009, 09:22 AM
The worst thing about MJ is that you have to consort with criminals to get it.

heycal
04-15-2009, 09:25 AM
I could not use pot in any way, even if it was just given to me, knowing what goes on to get it to me.

Are you saying that you'd even turn down free pot???



I have a friend who is a Mensa member, something like 175 IQ, and she smoked cigarrettes for a long time. She often asks, rhetorically of course as she's quit, how she could have been so stupid as to smoke. She now has emphysema.

Wait a sec -- this lady has emphysema but has quit smoking? What is the point of quitting if you already have a disease? If someone tells me I have lung cancer, I'm rushing to the store to buy some cigs and start smoking again!

As a father of three, I would rather my kids smoked a little pot than drink or smoke cigarettes.

Not me. I'd rather my daughter smoke a pack of cigarettes a day for 10 years than ever touch pot or alcohol. So many different awful things can happen due to pot or alcohol, but smoking a pack a day for ten years probably marginally increases the chances you'll have health problems later on in life.

As Confucius said: " 'tis better to have daughter chain smoke Marlboros throughout her 20's than fiddle with judgment impairing substances".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

heycal
04-15-2009, 09:34 AM
The worst thing about MJ is that you have to consort with criminals to get it.

That's related to one of my arguments against legalizing drugs. If you make a drug easy to get and somewhat socially acceptable -- like alcohol -- its use will sky-rocket. Make it difficult and even dangerous to procure, and less people will do it.

Reminds me of an explanation Don Imus gave for quitting cocaine, something like (and I'm loosely paraphrasing here): "it was such a pain in the ***. You're always running out, and drug dealers are the most unreliable people in the world. They say they'll be there in an hour and then they never show up. It just wasn't worth the hassle". I imagine if he could have bought his coke at the 7/11, he might never have quit.

bad_call
04-15-2009, 09:58 AM
...
Not me. I'd rather my daughter smoke a pack of cigarettes a day for 10 years than ever touch pot or alcohol. So many different awful things can happen due to pot or alcohol, but smoking a pack a day for ten years probably marginally increases the chances you'll have health problems later on in life.

As Confucius said: " 'tis better to have daughter chain smoke Marlboros throughout her 20's than fiddle with judgment impairing substances".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

you made that up...:razz: marginally? u must be on "dope" as KK says.

LuckyR
04-15-2009, 10:38 AM
That's related to one of my arguments against legalizing drugs. If you make a drug easy to get and somewhat socially acceptable -- like alcohol -- its use will sky-rocket. Make it difficult and even dangerous to procure, and less people will do it.

Reminds me of an explanation Don Imus gave for quitting cocaine, something like (and I'm loosely paraphrasing here): "it was such a pain in the ***. You're always running out, and drug dealers are the most unreliable people in the world. They say they'll be there in an hour and then they never show up. It just wasn't worth the hassle". I imagine if he could have bought his coke at the 7/11, he might never have quit.

Well, I am not aware of any viable movement to legalize MJ. Decriminalize, yes, legalize, no. As to "sky-rocketing" use. Who, exactly is this person who is a current nonuser, who would become a user under decriminalization? In other words, who wants to use MJ currently, who is scared away from doing so right now, purely because of the legal issues?

bad_call
04-15-2009, 10:39 AM
I would de-criminalize possesion with a federal law and license and tax sellers.

That being said, I would also mount a very strong anti-drug campaign. I know it sounds cynical, but this approach is probably the only way to exercise even limited control over the drug....

maybe if the US decriminalizes and taxes then it would put an end to this bull crap in Mexico.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/04/15/mexico.gangs/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

ollinger
04-15-2009, 12:17 PM
It's April 15, and watching bad call's hippocampus melt would be a small price to pay to lower my taxes.

heycal
04-15-2009, 01:42 PM
Well, I am not aware of any viable movement to legalize MJ. Decriminalize, yes, legalize, no. As to "sky-rocketing" use. Who, exactly is this person who is a current nonuser, who would become a user under decriminalization? In other words, who wants to use MJ currently, who is scared away from doing so right now, purely because of the legal issues?

Are you suggesting it's use would not increase if it were readily and easily available, particularly if it was legalized and sold in convenience stores as some people would probably advocate?

heycal
04-15-2009, 01:47 PM
you made that up...:razz: marginally? u must be on "dope" as KK says.

It might have been Socrates who said it.

Yes, marginally. I actually have no idea, but since I tend to think the risks of smoking are generally overblown, I'll stand by my statement. If you have evidence that I'm wrong, that people who have smoked for ten years are at great risk for developing cancer or other related diseases, I'd be willing to look at it and reconsider.

Until then, I'd still rather have my daughter smoke for ten years and quit than ever fool around with pot or booze. (Or boys for that matter...)

bad_call
04-15-2009, 04:55 PM
It's April 15, and watching bad call's hippocampus melt would be a small price to pay to lower my taxes.

you're quite gullible to think it would lower your taxes...again with the fear mongering like previous administration.

LuckyR
04-15-2009, 05:18 PM
Are you suggesting it's use would not increase if it were readily and easily available, particularly if it was legalized and sold in convenience stores as some people would probably advocate?

Nice dodge. As I said previously, I don't advocate legalization (sold at 7/11) and although "some people would probable advocate" legalization, these people have zero political clout and legalization ain't gonna happen in my or your lifetimes. Decriminalization, yes, legalization (sold at convenience stores) no. Yes, I am not only suggesting that use would not "sky-rocket" under decriminalization, I am challenging you to suppose who these new users contributing to the "sky-rocketing" numbers of users would be. Still waiting...

heycal
04-15-2009, 06:43 PM
Nice dodge. As I said previously, I don't advocate legalization (sold at 7/11) and although "some people would probable advocate" legalization, these people have zero political clout and legalization ain't gonna happen in my or your lifetimes. Decriminalization, yes, legalization (sold at convenience stores) no. Yes, I am not only suggesting that use would not "sky-rocket" under decriminalization, I am challenging you to suppose who these new users contributing to the "sky-rocketing" numbers of users would be. Still waiting...

I don't recall offering an opinion of what decriminalization of marijuana would do. I simply said it if you made these drugs legal and easily available, their use would sky rocket. If you dispute this, than say so.

chess9
04-16-2009, 03:51 AM
Are you saying that you'd even turn down free pot???



Wait a sec -- this lady has emphysema but has quit smoking? What is the point of quitting if you already have a disease? If someone tells me I have lung cancer, I'm rushing to the store to buy some cigs and start smoking again!



Not me. I'd rather my daughter smoke a pack of cigarettes a day for 10 years than ever touch pot or alcohol. So many different awful things can happen due to pot or alcohol, but smoking a pack a day for ten years probably marginally increases the chances you'll have health problems later on in life.

As Confucius said: " 'tis better to have daughter chain smoke Marlboros throughout her 20's than fiddle with judgment impairing substances".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

Stopping smoking slows the progression of emphysema. :) When you get to 50% lung capacity you start to realize you'd better stop.

-Robert