How best to handle shots with zero pace and top spin?

[enigma54]

OK, I just played one of the most frustrating sets against this guy who did nothing but stick his racquet out and literally lobbed balls back to me. I can't even describe him as a pusher because even pushers try to chip shots back, not just pop up the ball back to me like this guy did, as if he was playing badminton! :mad:

Anyways, of course, I didn't handle it well. I couldn't get into a rhythm and basically hit everything into the net or long. Basically, because I was facing balls all day that had ZERO pace and top spin, I just didn't handle it well. Should I be trying to hit winners with pace and top spin from the baseline, or play his game and just chip it back or block it back so that at least I'm not the one making all the unforced errors? The problem with the latter is that I don't consider this tennis - it's ping pong or badminton!! WTF?!?! He ruined the tennis session for me, that's for sure!

Any help greatly appreciated!

[The Dolphin]

befriend him and learn to beat him

[The Dolphin]

see how most questions are so obvious they are best left unasked?

[EricW]

see how most questions are so obvious they are best left unasked?

I don't think it's a bad question.

Most players go through certain "checkpoints" in their games, like when you finally reach the level where you can blast the "puffball serves" for winners without missing half of them. One of them is when you can play "your game" against people who hit extremely "light" shots, no pace, no spin.

What you have to do is just learn how to play "your game" against people like this, and it will take time. So play with people like this until you can beat them. It will help you against other types of game too because if you put someone on the defensive you might get one of these shots as a retrievel shot and you want to be consistent putting it away. Whatever you do though, even though it's easier, don't let his lobs drop, and then hit topspin off of them. Take them high and hit an overhead, flat forehand, or topspin angle (still taking it at ~head level). You'll have time to run around every single one of them because they're high and give you time. This will give you an advantage, when he's hitting these slow, high lobs, you will get to always hit your strength.

You can also try going to the net off a strong approach shot to lessen his chances to come up with a good lob, so you can finish the point at the net. Also work on your overhead so you can put away his lob attempts.

[ionutzakis]

I have the situation with a friend, he keep on feeding me either lobs from his backhand or low skidding balls with his forehand, he doesn;t have any power.

Point is when I play with PD+ I hit long or into the net, when I play a very flexible racquet that I cannot overhit I beat the crap out of him, because he cannot handle that much spin and consistency.

[35ft6]

Slow shots with no pace will really expose shaky technique. Yes, more so than fast shots. If you have good technique, you should be able to kill these types of shots way more times than not.

[Duzza]

Zero power? Well you wouldn't have to do much if it's not coming back over the net then hey?

[The Dolphin]

I don't think it's a bad question.

Most players go through certain "checkpoints" in their games, like when you finally reach the level where you can blast the "puffball serves" for winners without missing half of them. One of them is when you can play "your game" against people who hit extremely "light" shots, no pace, no spin.

What you have to do is just learn how to play "your game" against people like this, and it will take time. So play with people like this until you can beat them. It will help you against other types of game too because if you put someone on the defensive you might get one of these shots as a retrievel shot and you want to be consistent putting it away. Whatever you do though, even though it's easier, don't let his lobs drop, and then hit topspin off of them. Take them high and hit an overhead, flat forehand, or topspin angle (still taking it at ~head level). You'll have time to run around every single one of them because they're high and give you time. This will give you an advantage, when he's hitting these slow, high lobs, you will get to always hit your strength.

You can also try going to the net off a strong approach shot to lessen his chances to come up with a good lob, so you can finish the point at the net. Also work on your overhead so you can put away his lob attempts.



yeah, I just wanted to make a 50th post that's all, disregard that post.

[enigma54]

I don't think it's a bad question.
Whatever you do though, even though it's easier, don't let his lobs drop, and then hit topspin off of them. Take them high and hit an overhead, flat forehand, or topspin angle (still taking it at ~head level). You'll have time to run around every single one of them because they're high and give you time. This will give you an advantage, when he's hitting these slow, high lobs, you will get to always hit your strength.

You can also try going to the net off a strong approach shot to lessen his chances to come up with a good lob, so you can finish the point at the net. Also work on your overhead so you can put away his lob attempts.

Thanks for the helpful insights! I can't charge in and try for an overhead smash every single time, so in those instances when his balls do drop in and I run around for my forehand, are you suggesting that instead of trying to hit heavy topspin back, I should just try for a flat forehand? Is a flat forehand a higher percentage shot in these circumstances than a topspin forehand? Is it also key for me to make ball contact higher instead of letting the ball drop to my hip or below my hip height before blasting a topspin forehand?

I did go to the net often and hit some overhead winners so I recognized that opportunity on these types of fluff shots. And 35ft6 is correct, my forehand technique can be shaky, especially on these types of balls that seem to get me all flustered instead of getting me drooling for hitting an easy winner. When it's a clean ball coming at me with moderate pace and topspin, it's easier to concentrate on my technique and hitting back the ball.

[Spector]

Slow shots with no pace will really expose shaky technique. Yes, more so than fast shots. If you have good technique, you should be able to kill these types of shots way more times than not.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[smoothtennis]

35ft6 and Eric - right on guys! It can be a debilitating wait, devloping a game up to that level, but people just have to buck up and do it or whats the point of playing tennis?

And I just love these weird eccentric games like the total-lob-guy, or chop only guy, etc.

I can never resist the tempation to play a little of thier game for a while, especially the lobber guys---because I personally LOVE to lob. I'll get back to the fence, and lob with tons of heavy topspin on lobbers. The spin eventually cracks them, and it bounds over their heads. But this gets old after a few games.

But I love to mess with those guys. Then I'll hit these crappy little dead chips at the service line on a all-lob-no-power guy, and just observe if he can sill hit a good lob off those balls...chances are, you get a drill-style overhead to put away.

And you know if you can, next time you play this guy...seriously...take it as practice time against this stuff. Work on that forehand volley approach, the overhead, and your soft touch shot that stay low. You ever seen a guy lob well while he is up in the service box? Think about that...

And...you may never get to play another lob guy for years and years, so take your opportunity now, and use it like drills. I have to come up with pusher drills to replicate this stuff with my partner because I don't see that many of these fella's these days.

[enigma54]

35ft6 and Eric - right on guys! It can be a debilitating wait, devloping a game up to that level, but people just have to buck up and do it or whats the point of playing tennis?

And I just love these weird eccentric games like the total-lob-guy, or chop only guy, etc.

I can never resist the tempation to play a little of thier game for a while, especially the lobber guys---because I personally LOVE to lob. I'll get back to the fence, and lob with tons of heavy topspin on lobbers. The spin eventually cracks them, and it bounds over their heads. But this gets old after a few games.

But I love to mess with those guys. Then I'll hit these crappy little dead chips at the service line on a all-lob-no-power guy, and just observe if he can sill hit a good lob off those balls...chances are, you get a drill-style overhead to put away.

And you know if you can, next time you play this guy...seriously...take it as practice time against this stuff. Work on that forehand volley approach, the overhead, and your soft touch shot that stay low. You ever seen a guy lob well while he is up in the service box? Think about that...

And...you may never get to play another lob guy for years and years, so take your opportunity now, and use it like drills. I have to come up with pusher drills to replicate this stuff with my partner because I don't see that many of these fella's these days.

You make excellent points. I obviously got too frustrated because it's not easy to book court time at my club and I was hoping for a good hitting session instead of the junk he was feeding me.

Another thought I had is to switch to a heavier racquet with strings at higher tensions to deal with these lobbers. I've been playing with low tension, which feels fine in normal play, but against these lobbers, a lighter racquet combined with low tension AND poor mental outlook (ie. playing pissed off!!) doesn't make for good shots on my part :) Improving my technique so it doesn't break down in these types of situation goes without saying, of course.

[burosky]

OK, I just played one of the most frustrating sets against this guy who did nothing but stick his racquet out and literally lobbed balls back to me. I can't even describe him as a pusher because even pushers try to chip shots back, not just pop up the ball back to me like this guy did, as if he was playing badminton! :mad:

Anyways, of course, I didn't handle it well. I couldn't get into a rhythm and basically hit everything into the net or long. Basically, because I was facing balls all day that had ZERO pace and top spin, I just didn't handle it well. Should I be trying to hit winners with pace and top spin from the baseline, or play his game and just chip it back or block it back so that at least I'm not the one making all the unforced errors? The problem with the latter is that I don't consider this tennis - it's ping pong or badminton!! WTF?!?! He ruined the tennis session for me, that's for sure!

Any help greatly appreciated!

Okay. So it looks like you just went through the experience of playing someone who doesn't do anything but block the ball back which results in shots that don't have anything on it. I wonder what he does when you hit a similar ball to him. Players like these love to use the pace you are giving them. Most of the time, they are not able to supply their own pace. Perhaps if you take some pace off your own strokes that would change his shots. If he is forced to supply the pace you won't be getting those zero pace or topspin balls. Just a thought.

You can certainly try to hit your shots and go for winners but you have to be in the right position when you go for it. You want to make sure you are in your kill zone when you go for winners to increase your percentage. One way to know your attack zone is by standing near the net looking at the service line on the other side. Slowly back up until you see the top of the net cover the service line. The space between you and the net is your kill zone. Balls that you have to hit in this area that bounce higher than the net, are candidates for "put aways". If lower than the net, you want to hit a "set up" shot. Balls that you have to hit just beyond your kill zone and "no man's land" is better hit as an "approach" shot. For consistency, balls hit from beyond the baseline are best hit using your normal "rally" shot. These will be safe shots you hit about 3-4 feet above the net which will usually land deep on the other side. Just my .02 cents.

[35ft6]

Improving my technique so it doesn't break down in these types of situation goes without saying, of course. It was never a huge problem for me, but going from my oversized Prince to a mid-sized Dunlop FORCED me to use my whole body more, and that's really been the difference. To simply say "improve technique" isn't very helpful. Just how do you go about doing that? In general, people who use their entire bodies, starting with good footwork, have good technique. The opposite of using a high powered racket and just arming the ball. Using more of your body equals more consistent mechanics, better technique.

Since I've moved to a smaller racket, I've had to use my left arm more, to turn more, and really concentrate on my footwork not that my footwork is awesome. But I'm waaayyyyy more confident hitting aggressively off sitters with no pace than I was before when I could sort of get away with arming the ball more.

That was my personal experience. You look at the pros, you see they use their entire bodies for every shot. That's the secret to consistent power. I would recommend practicing sometimes with a low powered, thing beamed, heavily leaded racket. The heaviness will prevent you from arming the ball, and the low power will mean eventually you'll instinctively get more of your body involved and adjust the timing in order to generate some heat.

[arnz]

The way to good technique is practice, and then when you finish with that, you practice some more. You can work on a lot of things by yourself on the wall, stroke production, consistency, volleys, even overheads. Or a bucket of balls on the court working on serves, lobs, etc.

If you can find a drill partner, you can simulate the types of balls that give you the most problems, in your case, the high bouncing slow ball.

Sometimes we expect to hit balls during a match that we cant hit in practice. If you can handle it in practice, then it will eventually come out in a match situation.

Strategy only helps if you are able to execute. Most of the time people ask what strategy to employ to beat pushers, when the real answer is, get your tennis to a higher level and you'll find in the future that the question of strategy becomes moot

[Bagumbawalla]

Without our conscious awareness, most of us rely on the consistancy and pace of the oponent to keep our timing intact and help us power the ball back over the net.

Obviously, a ball consistantly hit to your cofort zone with medium pace is easier to hit than a paceless blooper with nothing on it but, perhaps, some odd spin.

So, to hit better against these people who give you nothing to work with, you must improve your game to the point that you no longer require their pace to create you own, so you no longer need their help in setting up for your shot.

The easiest way to practice this is to have someone stand beside you and toss you balls that just bonce straight up. Then it is up to you to get into position, shift your weight, and stroke through the ball solidly for a placement in the opposite court.

Repeat dozens of times until it feels completely natural.

[ej]

sounds like your opponent needs to add some more dimensions to his game in order to compete against better players .... and you have to learn how to finish in order to be one of those better players.

power players often cause their opponents to cough-up pace-less short balls. finishing off these kinds of balls is part of what makes a power player effective.

in parallel universe there is probably a thread by someone complaining about playing a wild, inconsistent opponent.

Use more spin to control the head speed you'll need to create pace off of nothing. you should be able to back this guy up, take the net, and volley him into oblivion.

[FatCat]

I LOVE playing people like the OP described. Even if I start to have issues metering my power and topspin to keep the ball in, being given sitters to my backhand side has got to be just about my favorite part of tennis. Drop shot or deep slice shot, both of which look almost identical, yay!

[HellBunni]

The problem with the latter is that I don't consider this tennis - it's ping pong or badminton!! WTF?!?! He ruined the tennis session for me, that's for sure!

I know I'm being picky, but what you described is not ping pong or badminton either. In fact, they are both faster than tennis, much much faster.

[EricW]

I know I'm being picky, but what you described is not ping pong or badminton either. In fact, they are both faster than tennis, much much faster.

You really believe badminton is "much much faster" than tennis?

[tbini87]

these types of players can be very frustrating, but like others have said it is a good opportunity to work on your game. i think that hitting high bouncing balls on the rise or at the high point is important. also try to hit these shots with direction, because it is hard to lob a ball well when you are on the run. also work on the overhead, because when he does leave a lob short you want to finish it right there. showing him that you can finish off his lob will send him a message. keep a positive attitude and be consistent with these players. they have no weapons, so they can't beat you. you can only beat yourself.

[enigma54]

I know I'm being picky, but what you described is not ping pong or badminton either. In fact, they are both faster than tennis, much much faster.

Point taken. I was thinking of novice ping pong or badminton players where they aren't smashing or attacking the ball/shuttlecock but merely making contact or lobbing it back. That's the analogy I was thinking of, so badminton/ping pong players shouldn't take offense. ;) Besides I used to play ping pong and badminton before picking up tennis, which also explains my wristy forehand in tennis, and something I've been trying to eliminate.

[enigma54]

these types of players can be very frustrating, but like others have said it is a good opportunity to work on your game. i think that hitting high bouncing balls on the rise or at the high point is important. also try to hit these shots with direction, because it is hard to lob a ball well when you are on the run. also work on the overhead, because when he does leave a lob short you want to finish it right there. showing him that you can finish off his lob will send him a message. keep a positive attitude and be consistent with these players. they have no weapons, so they can't beat you. you can only beat yourself.

For whatever reason, I wasn't able to stay positive as I made more and more unforced errors and he was doing nothing to deserve his points. I don't mind losing, but we're supposed to be playing tennis!! And what he was doing isn't what I consider tennis. Anyways, you're absolutely right, I beat myself and have no one else to blame. I just don't want to repeat the same mistake the next time I play against somebody like him.