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View Full Version : Well it's official - The ATP should cancel Cincy Masters!


drake
08-16-2007, 03:07 PM
Judging by the quality of play from this years Cincy Masters, the ATP players just cannot play in those conditions. High humidity, triple digit heat, it's impossible to have quality tennis. It's a torture chamber and it's the same every year. Whoever wins this tournament is the utimate grinder. I suggest the ATP find another location instead of this clambake.

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 03:11 PM
Judging by the quality of play from this years Cincy Masters, the ATP players just cannot play in those conditions. High humidity, triple digit heat, it's impossible to have quality tennis. It's a torture chamber and it's the same every year. Whoever wins this tournament is the utimate grinder. I suggest the ATP find another location instead of this clambake.

I doubt this will happen anytime soon, but it would be cool to move it somewhere else. Where would you move the tournament to?

Richie Rich
08-16-2007, 03:16 PM
what they should really do is insert a week between the Cinci tourny and the Canadian masters. having the 2 back to back doesn't make sense. a lot of guys pull out of cincy because they are too beat up from playing the week before in Toronto/Montreal

armand
08-16-2007, 03:41 PM
They should put it up more North, where the temp is more manageable(fans don't like the high temps either). So how about Anchorage or Yellow Knife? Maybe even Arctic Shelf Base 12?

pound cat
08-16-2007, 03:55 PM
They should put it up more North, where the temp is more manageable(fans don't like the high temps either). So how about Anchorage or Yellow Knife? Maybe even Arctic Shelf Base 12?

Iqualuit, although it's getting warmer up there too unfortunately.

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 03:57 PM
They should put it up more North, where the temp is more manageable(fans don't like the high temps either). So how about Anchorage or Yellow Knife? Maybe even Arctic Shelf Base 12?

I was thinking keep pushing it north, maybe like close to the north pole. :p

Rafa freak
08-16-2007, 03:58 PM
I doubt this will happen anytime soon, but it would be cool to move it somewhere else. Where would you move the tournament to?

Alaska.....

callitout
08-16-2007, 04:03 PM
Its a great tournament. yeah its brutal. But its 3 sets and its not as hot as Australia. Plus its right next to a water park.
I go to that and USO every year. And although there is no comparison in terms of prize money or the significance, its in many ways more fan friendly with much more immediate access to the players. Generally the players were not unhappy to be there. Of course there are hot days, but tennis has a huge fitness component.

Topaz
08-16-2007, 05:06 PM
If they players are going to go to NY, Cincy is a great opportunity to get used to the conditions. DC helps as well. The entire Northeast is like this in August, and I don't think they are going to move the Open anytime soon.

Though, I am in total amazement that these players can play in these conditions...it is a great testament to what great shape they are in.

Voltron
08-16-2007, 05:13 PM
How about Chicago? That wouldn't be so bad, although it's still pretty hot around here.

WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
08-16-2007, 05:15 PM
I was thinking keep pushing it north, maybe like close to the north pole. :p

Deadhorse would be perfect, don't you just love the midnight sun.

Pusher
08-16-2007, 05:41 PM
What a bunch of wussies.

College football is going thru 2-a-days and these ATP pros cannot manage 2 or 3 sets of good tennis.
My son (17) had a 90 minute workout and then played a set today and its hotter here than in Cincy.

This is why tennis is still regarded as an elitist sport.

BigboyDan
08-16-2007, 05:43 PM
The Cincy has a long tournament tradition, ain't going anywhere.

WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
08-16-2007, 05:51 PM
What a bunch of wussies.

College football is going thru 2-a-days and these ATP pros cannot manage 2 or 3 sets of good tennis.
My son (17) had a 90 minute workout and then played a set today and its hotter here than in Cincy.

This is why tennis is still regarded as an elitist sport.

Because it is for the elite? But joking aside....

I don't know where it should move as some suggest, and I was kidding about, but there is also no reason why it shouldn't remain in Cinncinati, just the timing for it is bad, immediately after Montreal! So even if top ones win or go deep at Montreal, its more difficult to recover to play well at Cincy. But true, as is mentioned about football, those guys have on a lot more gear, and personal body mass for the most part, and they take the heat and workouts at this time of year in similar locations.

Eviscerator
08-16-2007, 06:33 PM
What a bunch of wussies.

College football is going thru 2-a-days and these ATP pros cannot manage 2 or 3 sets of good tennis.
My son (17) had a 90 minute workout and then played a set today and its hotter here than in Cincy.

This is why tennis is still regarded as an elitist sport.

I strongly disagree with your comparative analogy. Most of the football players you are referring to could not endure the rigors of a competitive tennis match from start to finish, much less under those conditions.

Purostaff
08-16-2007, 06:41 PM
Alaska.....

+1 pure ice surface!! with polar bears n' stuffz!!1one :D

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 06:49 PM
Deadhorse would be perfect, don't you just love the midnight sun.

Yeah dude that would be awesome! :)

tennis_hand
08-16-2007, 06:52 PM
I think they should reschedule it to have a week of break after Montreal masters.

They still have back-to-back masters. that is stupid.

and the Slams as well, they should be scheduled more evenly throughout the year.

But all of these are old topics. nothing new.

saram
08-16-2007, 07:00 PM
Judging by the quality of play from this years Cincy Masters, the ATP players just cannot play in those conditions. High humidity, triple digit heat, it's impossible to have quality tennis. It's a torture chamber and it's the same every year. Whoever wins this tournament is the utimate grinder. I suggest the ATP find another location instead of this clambake.

The players are in top condition. They play in Australia with similar temps if not higher. Has nothing to do with the heat. Safin and Roger went five demanding sets with the highest quality of tennis in 05 at the AO with similar temps.

It's not due entirely to the heat--but their lack of focus and how a player handles and prepares for the conditions.

saram
08-16-2007, 07:01 PM
What a bunch of wussies.

College football is going thru 2-a-days and these ATP pros cannot manage 2 or 3 sets of good tennis.
My son (17) had a 90 minute workout and then played a set today and its hotter here than in Cincy.

This is why tennis is still regarded as an elitist sport.


The players are not wussies--this thread is based on the OP's opinion--not a bunch of whining players. Tell the OP he's a wussie--not those that won today.

Forehand Forever
08-16-2007, 07:03 PM
New Jersey. Right near the USO and the conditions are pretty much the same.

And because I live here.

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 07:07 PM
The players are not wussies--this thread is based on the OP's opinion--not a bunch of whining players. Tell the OP he's a wussie--not those that won today.

Well said. I don't think that the OP was entirely serious witht this thread. I just wanted to hear where else would people like to see a TMS tournament. I think that a week in between the Rogers Cup and the Cincy would be very good.

OrangeOne
08-16-2007, 07:12 PM
What a bunch of wussies.

College football is going thru 2-a-days and these ATP pros cannot manage 2 or 3 sets of good tennis.
My son (17) had a 90 minute workout and then played a set today and its hotter here than in Cincy.

This is why tennis is still regarded as an elitist sport.

I'm choosing to leave your son out of this (everyone's kid practices for longer in hotter weather and harder than federer and and and).

If you play, you should at least be able to recognise that tennis is a brutal endurance sport at the high level? Why? Because it combines aerobic endurance with skill and a power/sprinting requirement, and let's not forget it is a full-body sport as well, requiring agility, endurance and power from the upper and lower body.

Many sports require one or two of the above elements, few require all of them, and very few team sports are as impacting on the body as professional tennis.

Maybe you haven't been to a pro tournament lately? I'm a tall male, reasonably fit and strong, I'm 31, and I hit the ball hard. Standing on the sidelines of the Sydney International practice courts this year for the first time in a couple of years, I was completely blown away by the levels pro tennis is reaching.... I remember watching Matthieu's forehand practice session - it was simply mind-blowing, and he was hitting them non-stop for 15-30 minutes in the heat, just to give one example. Pro tennis is a completely different game, and I have true respect for the athletic abilities of anyone playing it or trying to play it, especially those playing in a Master's tourney or GS in 40 degrees plus!

superstition
08-16-2007, 07:14 PM
Fitness and "wussiness" has nothing to do with the effects of heat stroke on the body.

It's easy for people here to advocate brain damage for players due to extreme heat, since such people aren't the ones who'll pay. Sharapova said she was hallucinating during the Australian Open, and that's an example of why extreme heat isn't acceptable.

During this time of year, tennis should be played somewhere cooler, indoors, or on a cooler surface like grass. Cincinnati isn't going to be able to switch to grass because serious drought is plaguing southwestern Ohio again. Global warming seems to be the cause, because just a few years ago massive tree death happened due to drought. With rising temperatures, more drought and desertification happens, as well as more severe precipitation episodes.

Pusher
08-16-2007, 07:14 PM
I strongly disagree with your comparative analogy. Most of the football players you are referring to could not endure the rigors of a competitive tennis match from start to finish, much less under those conditions.

I suspect football players could endure the "rigors" of a tennis match much better than the tennis players could endure two practices a day in pads and helmets while getting pounded into the ground. The comparison is simply ludicrous.

Pusher
08-16-2007, 07:18 PM
Fitness and "wussiness" has nothing to do with the effects of heat stroke on the body.

It's easy for people here to advocate brain damage for players due to extreme heat, since such people aren't the ones who'll pay. Sharapova said she was hallucinating during the Australian Open, and that's an example of why extreme heat isn't acceptable.

During this time of year, tennis should be played somewhere cooler, indoors, or on a cooler surface like grass.

Did someone advocate brain damage? I must have missed it.

Who was the last ATP player to suffer brain damage on the court-other than Sharipova? :grin:

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 07:19 PM
I suspect football players could endure the "rigors" of a tennis match much better than the tennis players could endure two practices a day in pads and helmets while getting pounded into the ground. The comparison is simply ludicrous.

This has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever read. I played varsity football all 4 years at high school. There is no way that a football player could stand the rigors of a tennis match. Especially in a match where it is between competitive tennis players, say 4.0 or above. After a few games of running side to side and up and down the football player would pass out. On what level do football players get pounded to the ground. Team practices aren't easy but they aren't exactly hard on the body. Games are, but not practices.

AndyRLacoste
08-16-2007, 07:21 PM
Portland!!!

superstition
08-16-2007, 07:21 PM
When people dismiss the seriousness of heat-related fatigue with comments about "wussiness" and the notion that people who are fit are immune to temperature, that mentality leads to the tolerance of worse outcomes than fatigue. It's difficult to realize one is having brain damage. It could seem like a headache, and players may continue to play.

The bottom line is that there should be a heat policy that sets a maximum on-court temperature for pro matches.

OrangeOne
08-16-2007, 07:21 PM
]Sharapova said she was hallucinating during the Australian Open, and that's an example of why extreme heat isn't acceptable.

I suspect people with Sharapova's somewhat minimal IQ hallucinate fairly regularly, you probably need to pick a better example ;)

I suspect football players could endure the "rigors" of a tennis match much better than the tennis players could endure two practices a day in pads and helmets while getting pounded into the ground. The comparison is simply ludicrous.

You see, sometimes the english language is ambiguous. I think by stating those last 5 words, you meant that the comparison was ludicrous from an "of course football players are 'fitter' perspective", whereas I read it as being a simply ludicrous comparison, in that comparing the relative fitness of a footballer and tennis player is like comparing one's favourite soft drink with one's favourite wine - it's an irrelevant and pointless comparison.

Pusher
08-16-2007, 07:24 PM
This has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever read. I played varsity football all 4 years at high school. There is no way that a football player could stand the rigors of a tennis match. Especially in a match where it is between competitive tennis players, say 4.0 or above. After a few games of running side to side and up and down the football player would pass out. On what level do football players get pounded to the ground. Team practices aren't easy but they aren't exactly hard on the body. Games are, but not practices.

Well, I did say many consider tennis an elitist sport-seems i was right.

Wow.

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 07:24 PM
When people dismiss the seriousness of heat-related fatigue with comments about "wussiness" and the notion that people who are fit are immune to temperature, that mentality leads to the tolerance of worse outcomes than fatigue. It's difficult to realize one is having brain damage. It could seem like a headache, and players may continue to play.

The bottom line is that there should be a heat policy that sets a maximum on-court temperature for pro matches.

I think there is, at least for the AUS Open.

superstition
08-16-2007, 07:24 PM
I suspect people with Sharapova's somewhat minimal IQ hallucinate fairly regularly, you probably need to pick a better example ;)
I happen to believe her, and won't belittle her in order to dodge the problem. There are plenty of things Sharapova is guilty of, but I see no good reason for her to make up a story about the heat at the AO. She's not the only person who has discussed the terrible heat at the Australian Open. Navratilova said she didn't play there because of heat sometimes and said there should be a heat policy, or something along these lines. I saw the Capriati-Hingis final and it was clear that the heat, not Capriati, is what defeated Hingis. That's not good tennis ("see which one drops first").

Pusher
08-16-2007, 07:25 PM
I suspect people with Sharapova's somewhat minimal IQ hallucinate fairly regularly, you probably need to pick a better example ;)



You see, sometimes the english language is ambiguous. I think by stating those last 5 words, you meant that the comparison was ludicrous from an "of course football players are 'fitter' perspective", whereas I read it as being a simply ludicrous comparison, in that comparing the relative fitness of a footballer and tennis player is like comparing one's favourite soft drink with one's favourite wine - it's an irrelevant and pointless comparison.

Thanks professor.

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 07:26 PM
Well, I did say many consider tennis an elitist sport-seems i was right.

Wow.

Right back at you. Wow. Why are you on these forums when you consider that tennis players are pussies? Your posts on this thread have pointed that way. That is why I am questioning your motive here.

OrangeOne
08-16-2007, 07:28 PM
Thanks professor.

Wow - such an eloquent reply.

Ever considered replying to the points I made? I thought not.

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 07:29 PM
Wow - such an eloquent reply.

Ever considered replying to the points I made? I thought not.

Well said.

Klatu Verata Necktie
08-16-2007, 07:34 PM
If they were to relocate the cincy event, why not South America. There is a huge tennis following in countries such as Argentina, Chile, Columbia, and Venezuela. Our summer is their winter, so conditions would be ideal.

Pusher
08-16-2007, 07:35 PM
Right back at you. Wow. Why are you on these forums when you consider that tennis players are pussies? Your posts on this thread have pointed that way. That is why I am questioning your motive here.

When you can't make an argument then question the motive?

I played tennis today in 102 degree heat. I watched a senior league match also being played. I watch an ATP match on TV and the players act like its just too much for them to have to earn thousands of dollars if they are uncomfortable. One would guess they are "spoiled"

I know those guys are fit but some,not all, seem to feel they are entitled to play in favorable conditions. They are wussies.

Aeropro master
08-16-2007, 07:36 PM
what they should really do is insert a week between the Cinci tourny and the Canadian masters. having the 2 back to back doesn't make sense. a lot of guys pull out of cincy because they are too beat up from playing the week before in Toronto/Montreal

That makes a lot of sense than, moving cities. I play 4 hours + outside in cincy, and I'm perfectly fine. All the players are tired from all the tournaments and therfore don't play their best at cincy.

Pusher
08-16-2007, 07:37 PM
Wow - such an eloquent reply.

Ever considered replying to the points I made? I thought not.

Make a point and I'll reply.

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 07:40 PM
When you can't make an argument then question the motive?

I played tennis today in 102 degree heat. I watched a senior league match also being played. I watch an ATP match on TV and the players act like its just too much for them to have to earn thousands of dollars if they are uncomfortable. One would guess they are "spoiled"

I know those guys are fit but some,not all, seem to feel they are entitled to play in favorable conditions. They are wussies.

And you made a good argument too. LOL! I think your an idiot, based on the rubbish you have wrote on here. So I am done here.

OrangeOne
08-16-2007, 07:42 PM
1.Body Composition - Tennis. It's almost impossible to be an elite tennis player and be significantly overweight, many pro footballers are quite overweight.
2.Flexibility - Tennis. Tennis players are leaner, and by definition leaner people are more flexible to start with.
3.Cardio-respiratory Endurance: Tennis - show me a football match that goes for 5 hours in summer and I'll hand this one to football instead.
4.Muscular Endurance: Tennis - same as above.
5.Muscular Strength: Football, no question.
6.Power : Football

7.Balance: Tennis - is often played at the extremes of balance.
8.Coordination: Tennis (don't make me laugh)
9.Speed: Football
10.Reaction Time: Tennis (success is directly related to reaction time)
11.Agility: Tennis.

Game, set and match to tennis on the components of fitness, 8 elements to 3!

Chauvalito
08-16-2007, 07:43 PM
A lot of players played well today through the heat...

Moya and Potro played 3 long sets...Roddick's match would have likely gone longer if he had won the third set.

I am for keeping the varying conditions in tennis...

If it was getting to the point that players could not play well, I am pretty sure they would say something ;)

They dont need me, or anyone else on this board to advocate policies they are capable of dealing with themselves.

Although it is interesting to debate.

Pusher
08-16-2007, 07:43 PM
And you made a good argument too. LOL! I think your an idiot, based on the rubbish you have wrote on here. So I am done here.

Now that hurts.;)

But really, you were done before you ever started.

OrangeOne
08-16-2007, 07:44 PM
Make a point and I'll reply.

Three, I've made three posts of points now, one new one and two old ones, all discussing your posts. Many, many points contained in each one, and all you can do is wise-crack at me....

Chauvalito
08-16-2007, 07:44 PM
1.Body Composition - Tennis. It's almost impossible to be an elite tennis player and be significantly overweight, many pro footballers are quite overweight.
2.Flexibility - Tennis. Tennis players are leaner, and by definition leaner people are more flexible to start with.
3.Cardio-respiratory Endurance: Tennis - show me a football match that goes for 5 hours in summer and I'll hand this one to football instead.
4.Muscular Endurance: Tennis - same as above.
5.Muscular Strength: Football, no question.
6.Power : Football

7.Balance: Tennis - is often played at the extremes of balance.
8.Coordination: Tennis (don't make me laugh)
9.Speed: Football
10.Reaction Time: Tennis (success is directly related to reaction time)
11.Agility: Tennis.

Game, set and match to tennis on the components of fitness, 8 elements to 3!


I am sure you know, but you might be wasting your breath (typing, whatever)

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 07:45 PM
1.Body Composition - Tennis. It's almost impossible to be an elite tennis player and be significantly overweight, many pro footballers are quite overweight.
2.Flexibility - Tennis. Tennis players are leaner, and by definition leaner people are more flexible to start with.
3.Cardio-respiratory Endurance: Tennis - show me a football match that goes for 5 hours in summer and I'll hand this one to football instead.
4.Muscular Endurance: Tennis - same as above.
5.Muscular Strength: Football, no question.
6.Power : Football

7.Balance: Tennis - is often played at the extremes of balance.
8.Coordination: Tennis (don't make me laugh)
9.Speed: Football
10.Reaction Time: Tennis (success is directly related to reaction time)
11.Agility: Tennis.

Game, set and match to tennis on the components of fitness, 8 elements to 3!


Very well done again! Enjoy your posts very much. Please keep it up! :)

volleyandfun
08-16-2007, 07:46 PM
When people dismiss the seriousness of heat-related fatigue with comments about "wussiness" and the notion that people who are fit are immune to temperature, that mentality leads to the tolerance of worse outcomes than fatigue. It's difficult to realize one is having brain damage. It could seem like a headache, and players may continue to play.

The bottom line is that there should be a heat policy that sets a maximum on-court temperature for pro matches.

There is such policy, I remember watching matches at Indian Wells and they monitored temperatures all the time referring to the heat index frequently. Not quite sure though how it works.

Problem is that at Indian Wells humidity was low, and at Cincy humidity is much higher. I am not sure if they take that into a consideration, that something is called humidex factor.

Instead of moving Cincy to a different place or different time, wouldn't it be easier to have Canadian Masters a week earlier? In such case players would have week off between both masters and USO.

OrangeOne
08-16-2007, 07:52 PM
I happen to believe her, and won't belittle her in order to dodge the problem. There are plenty of things Sharapova is guilty of, but I see no good reason for her to make up a story about the heat at the AO. She's not the only person who has discussed the terrible heat at the Australian Open. Navratilova said she didn't play there because of heat sometimes and said there should be a heat policy, or something along these lines. I saw the Capriati-Hingis final and it was clear that the heat, not Capriati, is what defeated Hingis. That's not good tennis ("see which one drops first").

Have a laugh, SS, I'm just poking fun at Masha and you know it. Seriously, I did think she was just playing terrible that day, but that's beside the point.

I'll one up you here and say that I was in the stands for that final (Cap-Hingis), primarily....because I was :), I've never bought more drinks / ice-blocks at an event, ever. It was ridiculous. I also agree with your assessment, the heat defeated hingis that day.

That said - since then, there has been (well, there is) and extreme heat policy at the open. It's not perfect, but it is a start....

Pusher
08-16-2007, 07:52 PM
1.Body Composition - Tennis. It's almost impossible to be an elite tennis player and be significantly overweight, many pro footballers are quite overweight.
2.Flexibility - Tennis. Tennis players are leaner, and by definition leaner people are more flexible to start with.
3.Cardio-respiratory Endurance: Tennis - show me a football match that goes for 5 hours in summer and I'll hand this one to football instead.
4.Muscular Endurance: Tennis - same as above.
5.Muscular Strength: Football, no question.
6.Power : Football

7.Balance: Tennis - is often played at the extremes of balance.
8.Coordination: Tennis (don't make me laugh)
9.Speed: Football
10.Reaction Time: Tennis (success is directly related to reaction time)
11.Agility: Tennis.

Game, set and match to tennis on the components of fitness, 8 elements to 3!


I think you've lost the plot.

The debate is not about the relative athleticism of tennis players vs football players.It about the fact that some ATP players cannot function in conditions that football players would find to be a day at the beach.

And why would I respond to a post where it is assumed that 4.0 tennis players compare favorably to D-1 football players? Thats fantasy.

OrangeOne
08-16-2007, 07:59 PM
I think you've lost the plot.

I haven't.... but thanks.

The debate is not about the relative athleticism of tennis players vs football players. It about the fact that some ATP players cannot function in conditions that football players would find to be a day at the beach.


I was saying that tennis is a much more demanding game in every respect, and thus it becomes much more difficult to play in demanding conditions. Running forwards 10m and tackling someone takes little skill, and is thus repeatable in almost any conditions. Returning a 200k spinning serve takes ludicrous talent, and is difficult in the best of conditions. Can you join the dots in my reasoning now?

And why would I respond to a post where it is assumed that 4.0 tennis players compare favorably to D-1 football players? Thats fantasy.

I'm not the one who put my son and college football players in the same post, you are! Speaking of losing the plot...

volleyandfun
08-16-2007, 08:08 PM
I think you've lost the plot.

The debate is not about the relative athleticism of tennis players vs football players.It about the fact that some ATP players cannot function in conditions that football players would find to be a day at the beach.

And why would I respond to a post where it is assumed that 4.0 tennis players compare favorably to D-1 football players? Thats fantasy.

I remember there used to be a football player nicknamed fridge, or refrigerator?

Uhmm, I can picture him chasing tennis balls for 3 hours!

dennis10is
08-16-2007, 08:24 PM
What a bunch of wussies.

College football is going thru 2-a-days and these ATP pros cannot manage 2 or 3 sets of good tennis.
My son (17) had a 90 minute workout and then played a set today and its hotter here than in Cincy.

This is why tennis is still regarded as an elitist sport.

Yes, Football a real man's sport. All those lovely 300 pounds linebackers. They are in incredible shape. The discussion is not about whether they can play in this condition. The point is that because of the conditions, the proximity to the USO that good players would want to save up for the USO. Do nothing that would jeopardize their chances at the Open. This is not like football where every game is equally important. That is the reason why you don't get the big names repeating or defending their titles often. Not important enough in comparison to the USO.

In my teens, younger than your son, 14-16, in the summer, I would run 5 miles, 2000 speed jump rope, 10 X100yr sprints before 8am. And then play tennis for 4 hours. I didn't know any better back then.

NamRanger
08-16-2007, 08:31 PM
This has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever read. I played varsity football all 4 years at high school. There is no way that a football player could stand the rigors of a tennis match. Especially in a match where it is between competitive tennis players, say 4.0 or above. After a few games of running side to side and up and down the football player would pass out. On what level do football players get pounded to the ground. Team practices aren't easy but they aren't exactly hard on the body. Games are, but not practices.


Tennis player are not more athletic and better enduranced then any top level pro football/basketball player. Period. Football and Basketball players are stronger, faster, and would probably outlast most tennis players in a long distance run.



Football players appear to be overweight because they are not lean as tennis players. They are designed for power mainly, except for the skill positions. They appear to be fat, but I garuntee you they are far from it. Tell me one tennis player that can take getting hit by a 250-300 lb defensive linemen every few seconds for a few hours in summer heat or in the harsh winter, and then come talk again.

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 08:36 PM
Tennis player are not more athletic and better enduranced then any top level pro football/basketball player. Period. Football and Basketball players are stronger, faster, and would probably outlast most tennis players in a long distance run.

Yes I never said that they were. I just said I didn't think that a football player could stand up to the rigors of the constant moving on a tennis court. Didn't question their athletic ability at all. Didn't mention anything about long distance running at all either. Why would a tennis player run a long distance anyways? Sprints would be better training for us tennis players anyways.

xtremerunnerars
08-16-2007, 08:39 PM
Take it to another thread guys. A lot of you are missing the point that professional athletes have been very specifically trained for their respective sports. Of course a tennis player couldn't take hits from a linebacker all day; he hasn't been trained to do it and isn't the ideal body composition for it. Of course a lineman can't sprint sideline to sideline when he's 8 feet behind the baseline; he hasn't been trained to do it.

Accept that both sports are TOUGH to play on the body as well as the mind and that we're not on their level and just enjoy the action!

I like the tournament, and wouldn't really change a thing. If you're in decent physical shape, don't mind a little sun and heat, stay hydrated, and know where to be it's a great tournament.

I've played in worse conditions and lived through it, so I think the pros will be alright. I do wonder if it's a coincidence that so many spaniards are successful at this event though.

volleyandfun
08-16-2007, 08:40 PM
Tennis player are not more athletic and better enduranced then any top level pro football/basketball player. Period. Football and Basketball players are stronger, faster, and would probably outlast most tennis players in a long distance run.



Football players appear to be overweight because they are not lean as tennis players. They are designed for power mainly, except for the skill positions. They appear to be fat, but I garuntee you they are far from it. Tell me one tennis player that can take getting hit by a 250-300 lb defensive linemen every few seconds for a few hours in summer heat or in the harsh winter, and then come talk again.


Yeap, for sure, I can definitely see "refrigerator" (Perry?) out-running Federer, and hitting him a few times along the way.

every few seconds for a few hours? how about every few hours for a few seconds instead?

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 08:43 PM
Tennis player are not more athletic and better enduranced then any top level pro football/basketball player. Period. Football and Basketball players are stronger, faster, and would probably outlast most tennis players in a long distance run.



Football players appear to be overweight because they are not lean as tennis players. They are designed for power mainly, except for the skill positions. They appear to be fat, but I garuntee you they are far from it. Tell me one tennis player that can take getting hit by a 250-300 lb defensive linemen every few seconds for a few hours in summer heat or in the harsh winter, and then come talk again.

Once again, putting words in my mouth. Never said that football players were overweight or any of that stuff you just said. Tennis players couldn't stand to get hit by a guy that weighs twice as much as them. The original comparison was football is way harder than tennis. Saying tennis players are wussies was what was said. I just said put a football player on a tennis court and see what happens. That was what I wanted to get across. So if you have trouble understanding that, I'm sorry. :(

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 08:44 PM
Yeap, for sure, I can definitely see "refrigerator" (Perry?) out-running Federer, and hitting him a few times along the way.

every few seconds for a few hours? how about every few hours for a few seconds instead?

Well said. Thanks for having my back on this ******** argument. :)

NamRanger
08-16-2007, 08:44 PM
Yes I never said that they were. I just said I didn't think that a football player could stand up to the rigors of the constant moving on a tennis court. Didn't question their athletic ability at all. Didn't mention anything about long distance running at all either. Why would a tennis player run a long distance anyways? Sprints would be better training for us tennis players anyways.

A WR could easily keep up and outsprint any tennis player, any day of the week. You don't realize that a WR runs routes with incredible speed, balance, and so much more. Anyone who thinks that a tennis player has more balance then a WR needs to go watch Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison, or any of the other great WRs make some great catches. They are literally on the tips of their toes, balancing the ball and their bodies to make a catch.


Every few seconds as in it happens every few seconds. You don't get a good ol 30 seconds between every point like in tennis. It's pretty much intense play nearly every second with the exception of play calling.

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 08:46 PM
Take it to another thread guys. A lot of you are missing the point that professional athletes have been very specifically trained for their respective sports. Of course a tennis player couldn't take hits from a linebacker all day; he hasn't been trained to do it and isn't the ideal body composition for it. Of course a lineman can't sprint sideline to sideline when he's 8 feet behind the baseline; he hasn't been trained to do it.

Accept that both sports are TOUGH to play on the body as well as the mind and that we're not on their level and just enjoy the action!

I like the tournament, and wouldn't really change a thing. If you're in decent physical shape, don't mind a little sun and heat, stay hydrated, and know where to be it's a great tournament.

I've played in worse conditions and lived through it, so I think the pros will be alright. I do wonder if it's a coincidence that so many spaniards are successful at this event though.

I completely agree. Just didn't like the fact that this guy was telling me that the top pros are complete wussies, and that tennis players in general are too. PO'ed me a little bit.

rommil
08-16-2007, 08:48 PM
New Jersey. Right near the USO and the conditions are pretty much the same.

And because I live here.

Where? In the swamps in Secaucus? jk. Maybe just get rid of Cinci that way more players are enticed to get last minute points in New Haven.

OrangeOne
08-16-2007, 08:52 PM
Tennis player are not more athletic and better enduranced then any top level pro football/basketball player. Period.

Garbage :). See my comparison on the elements of fitness above. Tennis players, by definition, have to play longer than many other athletes, and certainly many football players = better endurance.

Football and Basketball players are stronger,

Which is one element of fitness (and I dispute the fact that BBall players are stronger, but anyways).

faster,

Which is another element (there are at least 11, and you've picked 2 of the 3 I feel football players clearly have the lead in anyways).

and would probably outlast most tennis players in a long distance run.

Basketball players - would be comparable in endurance to tennis players. Footballers - keep dreaming.

Football players appear to be overweight because they are not lean as tennis players. They are designed for power mainly, except for the skill positions. They appear to be fat, but I garuntee you they are far from it. Tell me one tennis player that can take getting hit by a 250-300 lb defensive linemen every few seconds for a few hours in summer heat or in the harsh winter, and then come talk again.

Every few seconds? Check out how many hits the average player takes in a game and tell me if it's every few seconds, or if perhaps you meant minutes there. And as for football players not being as lean - they're not, and some are indeed clinically overweight, despite your 'guarantee'. Gut fat = fat, there's not two ways about it.

OrangeOne
08-16-2007, 08:57 PM
A WR could easily keep up and outsprint any tennis player, any day of the week. You don't realize that a WR runs routes with incredible speed, balance, and so much more. Anyone who thinks that a tennis player has more balance then a WR needs to go watch Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison, or any of the other great WRs make some great catches. They are literally on the tips of their toes, balancing the ball and their bodies to make a catch.

Or watch Fed or Nadal, who often hit winners against their flow of movement, whilst mid air, which involves not only contacting a moving ball with a racquet (roughly the skill involved in catching), but contacting it in such a way that it then moves the length of a court, clearing a net, and landing inside some confines, then moving away from an opponent who is intent on tracking it down. A WR catching a ball? My one year old nephew will start catching a ball in the next year....

Every few seconds as in it happens every few seconds. You don't get a good ol 30 seconds between every point like in tennis. It's pretty much intense play nearly every second with the exception of play calling.

Garbage again. Every few seconds - so a WR is required to catch 10 times a minute for 2 hours? Nope, he's called on every minute or two, and then gets to rest while someone else does something else.

tennispro11
08-16-2007, 09:05 PM
A WR could easily keep up and outsprint any tennis player, any day of the week. You don't realize that a WR runs routes with incredible speed, balance, and so much more. Anyone who thinks that a tennis player has more balance then a WR needs to go watch Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison, or any of the other great WRs make some great catches. They are literally on the tips of their toes, balancing the ball and their bodies to make a catch.


Every few seconds as in it happens every few seconds. You don't get a good ol 30 seconds between every point like in tennis. It's pretty much intense play nearly every second with the exception of play calling.

Your response is laughable. So a WR is better balanced than say Federer, who is by far the most graceful person on a tennis court the world has ever seen. You make me seem that I am not a football fan, I am. I just don't like the way you come up with stuff that I didn't say and respond to it. Yeah right football is pretty action from start to finish. There are two sides, Offense and Defense. Both of them get breaks throughout the game. Sometimes up to 15 to 20 minutes. Does a tennis player get breaks like those in a match? Uh...........no. LOL. Nam you are digging yourself a deeper whole everytime you open your mouth.

War, Safin!
08-17-2007, 12:08 AM
Judging by the quality of play from this years Cincy Masters, the ATP players just cannot play in those conditions. High humidity, triple digit heat, it's impossible to have quality tennis. It's a torture chamber and it's the same every year. Whoever wins this tournament is the utimate grinder. I suggest the ATP find another location instead of this clambake.
Maybe they shorten the way they play their points....like serve-n-volleying.
Like Sampras.


Oh, I forgot - none of them are good enough to do that, are they? ;)

brayman9
08-17-2007, 05:06 AM
Boston put it up here.;)

coloskier
08-17-2007, 07:42 AM
Judging by the quality of play from this years Cincy Masters, the ATP players just cannot play in those conditions. High humidity, triple digit heat, it's impossible to have quality tennis. It's a torture chamber and it's the same every year. Whoever wins this tournament is the utimate grinder. I suggest the ATP find another location instead of this clambake.

I guess you haven't watched the AO lately. They had to build a roof over the stadium because it got too hot, but that is only 1 court out of 18. It is quite normal for temps on the courts to be over 120F with 90% humidity in kangarooland.

Shashwat
08-17-2007, 07:46 AM
Why aren't there any tournaments in Texas?

Richie Rich
08-17-2007, 07:49 AM
Why aren't there any tournaments in Texas?

us clay courts is in houston?

ubel
08-17-2007, 07:54 AM
Masters Series Scotland, the first one on Grass! Yeahhh! Or maybe even the Irish Masters on grass: screw the strawberries in cream, all you can drink ale!

....or not :mad:

Shashwat
08-17-2007, 08:10 AM
us clay courts is in houston?

The big guns are never here.

other than roddick practicing here during offseason.

rod99
08-17-2007, 08:36 AM
The players are in top condition. They play in Australia with similar temps if not higher. Has nothing to do with the heat. Safin and Roger went five demanding sets with the highest quality of tennis in 05 at the AO with similar temps.

It's not due entirely to the heat--but their lack of focus and how a player handles and prepares for the conditions.

i agree that the original post is stupid, but the safin/federer match was a night match in australia.

daddy
08-17-2007, 09:19 AM
Its a great tournament. yeah its brutal. But its 3 sets and its not as hot as Australia. Plus its right next to a water park.
I go to that and USO every year. And although there is no comparison in terms of prize money or the significance, its in many ways more fan friendly with much more immediate access to the players. Generally the players were not unhappy to be there. Of course there are hot days, but tennis has a huge fitness component.


Australia is hell but after more than a few weeks rest for all the guys its more bearable. ALso only a couple of the luckly ones get to play all 7 matches and it is a 2 weeker so I dont think it can compare. Humidity is lower down there making it easier and on top of it, they can cover main court and have a heat rule as I remember

tkramer15
08-17-2007, 10:00 AM
This whole argument about Cincinnati is much ado about nothing. Yeah, there have been a lot of upsets, but I think it's more about who's playing well and who's more fresh than simply about the heat. For example, it was that difficult to predict that Djokovic might make an early exit after his unbelievable run in Montreal last week. He was probably still a little tired on Wednesday. Plus, he had to play Moya, a former number one who's had a pretty good year. I watched the match in person. Moya was really on -- he controlled almost every baseline rally. There wasn't much Djokovic could do. Other guys (Ljubicic, Roddick, Gonzalez, Robredo) also ran into fresher opponents or guys who are simply playing better right now. Nadal and Gasquet suffered injuries likely brought on by the amount of long matches they played over the course of the clay and grass seasons.

I've gone to the event every year since 1996 and it has been very warm just about every year and this is only the first or second time there have been this many upsets. I do agree that it may be a good idea to put a week in between Canada and Cincinnati to allow the top players to possibly regroup and recover more effectively. Canceling or moving the event is laughable. It's a fantastic tournament with a fantastic layout and feel.

Craig Sheppard
08-17-2007, 10:32 AM
I've gone to the event every year since 1996 and it has been very warm just about every year and this is only the first or second time there have been this many upsets. I do agree that it may be a good idea to put a week in between Canada and Cincinnati to allow the top players to possibly regroup and recover more effectively. Canceling or moving the event is laughable. It's a fantastic tournament with a fantastic layout and feel.

After going to this for the first time this year, I completely agree that this tournament should stay where it is and doesn't need to change a thing. Adding a week in between Canada & Cincy is debatable, but Cincy is a great location and has a wonderful setup. I can't imagine a tournament being more fan-friendly really.

I would argue NOT to put a week between the two, b/c that means that players have a week of downtime they have to spend somewhere on the road. It's not like they can go home for 2 or 3 days, only to return to the States again. Doesn't make a lot of logistical sense to me. It's only 2 players, the finalists, that have to rush on Sunday or Monday to their next location, and well, that's the price to pay for winning. The guys that lost on Wednesday or Thursday have a good 4 or 5 days off to recover.

Azzurri
08-17-2007, 12:34 PM
What a bunch of wussies.

College football is going thru 2-a-days and these ATP pros cannot manage 2 or 3 sets of good tennis.
My son (17) had a 90 minute workout and then played a set today and its hotter here than in Cincy.

This is why tennis is still regarded as an elitist sport.

Good post...that is exactly why people think of tennis players as little pu$$ies. These guys are PROFFESIONAL ATHELETES. If they can't run around for 1 1/2 hours then they WTF is the ATP supposed to do?

Eviscerator
08-17-2007, 01:25 PM
I suspect football players could endure the "rigors" of a tennis match much better than the tennis players could endure two practices a day in pads and helmets while getting pounded into the ground. The comparison is simply ludicrous.

:roll:

No personal offense, but actually, your analogy is more absurd than I originally thought.
When we are talking about endurance/fitness, it has nothing to do with the "pounding into the ground" that you refer to. Rather it relates to the sustained physical exertion of each athlete in their respective sport. So while offensive and defensive players are required to stay on the field for periods of time, they also get extended rest periods when the other players are on the field. Furthermore, when they get winded, there are replacement players to come in and give them a rest. No such thing exists in tennis, and a competitive best of 3 set match can go on for several hours. While some of the best athletes in football would have the stamina, most would not on average. So if you were to take the average football player (including linemen), and the average tennis player and compare fitness and endurance levels, I strongly believe the tennis players would fair much better.

I would find it hard to believe you or anyone could make a good counter point to the above, but feel free to try if your reasoning is sound.

Chadwixx
08-17-2007, 01:38 PM
My son (17) had a 90 minute workout and then played a set today and its hotter here than in Cincy.



Pat the 3.5 on the back for me. Its easy to play tennis at a low lvl, once you get good at the sport it then becomes challenging. Something many here will never understand.

Eviscerator
08-17-2007, 02:11 PM
I played tennis today in 102 degree heat. I watched a senior league match also being played. I watch an ATP match on TV and the players act like its just too much for them to have to earn thousands of dollars if they are uncomfortable. One would guess they are "spoiled"



Now I see what one of your problems is after having read this post. You are comparing your personal experiences both with your ability, and that of others like the seniors you mentioned.
Pushing is not playing competitive tennis any more than flag football is to the pros. Trying to scramble on the court against a top professional player requires every bit of quickness to get into proper position to strike the ball well enough to remain in the point then recover properly for the next shot. So if you are comparing your experience with that of the top pros, it is no wonder why you lack respect for their endurance.
Rest assured that if you have ever hit or taken a lesson with a good pro, they were hitting the ball in a manner you had the ability to keep up with. If they started to really put pace on the balls, it would steal all the time you are use to, and you would quickly tire after just 5 minutes of drilling. So just imagine what it must take to try and stay in the point with a top professional player for a best of 3 set match. In reality, no matter how hard you can imagine it is, it will be much harder than you are capable of understanding.

Jon Rudy
08-17-2007, 02:12 PM
The comparison about football players and tennis players seems like apples and oranges...yeah, wide receivers may run a lot, but they're not always going out on pass routes; sometimes they just have to block, sometimes they have to catch, and if the offense isn't moving the ball, then they aren't doing much at all except sipping gatorade on the sideline. There's a lot of physical exertion during practices, but if it's too hot then coaches don't try to kill their players. Anybody remember Korey Stringer dying from heat exhaustiona few years ago? A lot has changed since then.

There's no question, however, that a running back is going to be in tip-top physical shape; they take hits, and they're expected to keep going. It's the same with nearly every other position. Even the big guys on the offensive and defensive lines are still in great shape; they're expected to be big for a reason.

Do you guys ever watch how hard professional tennis players hit the ball, and how consistently they do it? Or how much side-to-side movement they have to utilize to keep a rally going? It's nuts, and most of us would get winded just trying to keep up with them on a 70-degree, cloudy day. Even so, with most of the tennis I've seen this week, it looks like the players are in incredible shape despite the extreme heat.

Back to the topic at hand; I live 30 minutes from Mason, in Xenia, and I love the fact that there's a tennis tournament around here, of all places. I hope they never get rid of it.

Richie Rich
08-17-2007, 03:11 PM
tennis players can still play their sport when they are 40+. many football players can't walk when they are 40.

volleyandfun
08-17-2007, 07:37 PM
tennis players can still play their sport when they are 40+. many football players can't walk when they are 40.

You tell me, I played once in AZ doubles with a guy 81 years of age. Needles to say, I was afraid to hit the ball harder towards him, and friend of mine, ex football player can barely walk straight and he is about 40.

superstition
08-17-2007, 07:48 PM
Myth: training makes the human body immune to heat stroke
Myth: people who get heat stroke are "wussies"
Myth: getting paid makes heat stroke irrelevant

(Whether Cincinnati should be dumped or not has nothing to do with the truthfulness of the above three points. That's another matter.)

tennispro11
08-17-2007, 09:14 PM
Myth: training makes the human body immune to heat stroke
Myth: people who get heat stroke are "wussies"
Myth: getting paid makes heat stroke irrelevant

(Whether Cincinnati should be dumped or not has nothing to do with the truthfulness of the above three points. That's another matter.)

Well said. You can't train for the unpredictable either. :)

callitout
08-17-2007, 10:07 PM
Myth: training makes the human body immune to heat stroke
Myth: people who get heat stroke are "wussies"
Myth: getting paid makes heat stroke irrelevant

(Whether Cincinnati should be dumped or not has nothing to do with the truthfulness of the above three points. That's another matter.)

I think you meant "truthiness". It was a world of the day on the Colbert report.

pow
08-17-2007, 10:26 PM
What a bunch of wussies.

College football is going thru 2-a-days and these ATP pros cannot manage 2 or 3 sets of good tennis.
My son (17) had a 90 minute workout and then played a set today and its hotter here than in Cincy.

This is why tennis is still regarded as an elitist sport.

Does your son play at the ATP level?
I mean, I play for many many hours myself but... there is a difference.

Pusher
08-18-2007, 04:46 AM
The comparison about football players and tennis players seems like apples and oranges...yeah, wide receivers may run a lot, but they're not always going out on pass routes; sometimes they just have to block, sometimes they have to catch, and if the offense isn't moving the ball, then they aren't doing much at all except sipping gatorade on the sideline. There's a lot of physical exertion during practices, but if it's too hot then coaches don't try to kill their players. Anybody remember Korey Stringer dying from heat exhaustiona few years ago? A lot has changed since then.

Yes, there have been quite a few football players that have died on the practice field. I don't think that happened because they were sipping Gatorade on the sideline. Their ability to function in the heat is critical to their performance and that is why college teams are now going thru 2-a-days.
In comparison, Federer trained for the hard court season in Dubai,without a coach, where there is little humidity and he trained in the early morning and at night. It is obvious at Cincy that the heat was severely affecting his play and his attitude.
Lets face it, some of these ATP pros are not in great shape. ATP pros hire/fire their coaches while football players are subordinate to their coaches-that makes a big difference when it comes to the willingness of the athletes to train.
Now some of you guys can harp on about me or my son or any or any other personal matter but that doesn't change my message. Cincy is a fair test for ATP players and those that can't handle the heat are wussies.

Eviscerator
08-18-2007, 08:18 AM
Yes, there have been quite a few football players that have died on the practice field. I don't think that happened because they were sipping Gatorade on the sideline. Their ability to function in the heat is critical to their performance and that is why college teams are now going thru 2-a-days.
In comparison, Federer trained for the hard court season in Dubai,without a coach, where there is little humidity and he trained in the early morning and at night. It is obvious at Cincy that the heat was severely affecting his play and his attitude.
Lets face it, some of these ATP pros are not in great shape. ATP pros hire/fire their coaches while football players are subordinate to their coaches-that makes a big difference when it comes to the willingness of the athletes to train.
Now some of you guys can harp on about me or my son or any or any other personal matter but that doesn't change my message. Cincy is a fair test for ATP players and those that can't handle the heat are wussies.

:roll:


After having read through this diatribe it is clear you have no clue what you are talking about bringing up totally irrelevant things like coaches and player "subordination". Everyone can have an opinion, but that does not make their opinion valid. Many people have taken the time to put forth sound and reasoned posts why your initial and subsequent opinions were flawed, yet you don't even take the time to address them in context. That smacks of troll like behavior in that you knew your initial comment on a tennis board would draw opposing points of view. Rather than have a specific reasoned discussion, you just throw more fuel on the fire without anything to back it up.
Therefore I've said all that I care to on this subject. If you truly believe the opinions you have proffered in this thread, you are welcome to live in ignorant bliss as it is of no consequence to me.

Chauvalito
08-18-2007, 08:21 AM
tennis players can still play their sport when they are 40+. many football players can't walk when they are 40.

Tennis players dont run into each other at full sprint, or fall on top of each other...or try to take each other out at the knees ;)

Of course a football player is going to be physically uncapable of playing football past 40...tennis is not a contact sport.

superstition
08-18-2007, 11:26 AM
I think you meant "truthiness". It was a world of the day on the Colbert report.
Either word is correct.

Truthy, adjective
rare or dialect.

Characterized by truth; truthful, true. Hence truthiness, truthfulness, faithfulness.

c1800 J. H. COLLS Theodore I, You..are afraid Theodore your sweetheart shouldn't prove truthy. 1824 J. J. GURNEY in Braithwaite Mem. (1854) I. 242 Everyone who knows her is aware of her truthiness. 1848 Fraser's Mag. XXXVII. 404 Descriptions of country life and truthy touches of native manners. 1851 SIR F. PALGRAVE Norm. & Eng. I. 601 Regino was truthy and honest.
Truthfulness.
The quality of being truthful.

1. Disposition to tell the truth; veracity.

1843 MIALL in Nonconf. III. 1 Soundness of principles, and..truthfulness of spirit. a1873 WILBERFORCE Ch. & Empires (1874) 110 Any..writer..who..commands belief by his accuracy and truthfulness.
2. Accuracy in representing the reality; freedom from pretence or counterfeit, as in a work of art or literature.

1859 GEO. ELIOT A. Bede xvii, It is for this rare, precious quality of truthfulness that I delight in many Dutch paintings. 1874 GREEN Short Hist. vi. §5. 324 No words could paint with so terrible a truthfulness the spirit of the New Monarchy. 1886 C. E. PASCOE Lond. of To-day xlii. (ed. 3) 362 English work, and especially as applied to furniture, used to have a character for truthfulness, simplicity, solidity, and comfort.

superstition
08-18-2007, 11:28 AM
Well said. You can't train for the unpredictable either. :)
Which is why there have to be rules in place to deal with the unpredictable, like a good heat policy.

tennispro11
08-18-2007, 02:14 PM
Which is why there have to be rules in place to deal with the unpredictable, like a good heat policy.

It would be nice if they did have a heat policy. I think that it will happen in the next few years if it keeps staying really hot throughout the tennis season.

tennispro11
08-18-2007, 02:15 PM
Yes, there have been quite a few football players that have died on the practice field. I don't think that happened because they were sipping Gatorade on the sideline. Their ability to function in the heat is critical to their performance and that is why college teams are now going thru 2-a-days.
In comparison, Federer trained for the hard court season in Dubai,without a coach, where there is little humidity and he trained in the early morning and at night. It is obvious at Cincy that the heat was severely affecting his play and his attitude.
Lets face it, some of these ATP pros are not in great shape. ATP pros hire/fire their coaches while football players are subordinate to their coaches-that makes a big difference when it comes to the willingness of the athletes to train.
Now some of you guys can harp on about me or my son or any or any other personal matter but that doesn't change my message. Cincy is a fair test for ATP players and those that can't handle the heat are wussies.

I think that you need to put up your computer and not ever get on the Talk Tennis forums again. You are an idiot. :-(

Richie Rich
08-18-2007, 06:12 PM
Tennis players dont run into each other at full sprint, or fall on top of each other...or try to take each other out at the knees ;)

Of course a football player is going to be physically uncapable of playing football past 40...tennis is not a contact sport.

that was, kind of, my point? the 2 aren't really comparable. i understand what pusher means though - but maybe his analogy wasn't the best.

Baghdatis72
08-18-2007, 06:13 PM
Judging by the quality of play from this years Cincy Masters, the ATP players just cannot play in those conditions. High humidity, triple digit heat, it's impossible to have quality tennis. It's a torture chamber and it's the same every year. Whoever wins this tournament is the utimate grinder. I suggest the ATP find another location instead of this clambake.

Agreed. The weather is bad and the timing is even worse.

This Masters was a choke festival. Terrible especially during the day.

Tennis_Monk
08-18-2007, 06:44 PM
If ATP players cannot play in Humid conditions or uncomfortable conditions what are they expecting to play in. Airconditioned courts?
Extreme temperatures are bad and i agree that there should be a heat/warm weather policy. But i do expect pros to play in less than comfortable conditions.